I need some advice on my damaged/dry ends please WARNING! Long read!

[Bedhead]

Hi there,

I'm confused as to what to do. I guess I'll give you some background first. (you can skip to the last couple paragraphs if you want)...

Four years ago, my hair freaked out. Between hormones, and new and apparently evil hairdryer (even used on cool with a filter), anemia, and depression, I had a matted nuk like you wouldn't believe and all the hair from the middle of my head, right across and down looked like I had swimmer's hair.

Three years ago I realised I had to look at my diet and made appropriate adjustments. I changed my shampoo, hoping it would help. I ended up at a salon where they conditioned the crap out of it in order to get a comb through it, and they hacked off about 6 inches, bringing my hair back up to shoulder length. Slight matting happened periodically, but not like it had been. My ends though were very dry. I tried another shampoo for hair repair, but the rest of hair just got frizzy.

Two years ago, I discovered SLS, and decided to kick it out of my life, so I tried using olive oil soap, and although my hair was heavy and waxy, it looked really healthy, but, yeah, way too heavy for my taste. No matting though, not even a tangle.

One year ago, I was using a sap based "shampoo", and then sap and coconut oil concoction, that left my hair feeling a little on the heavy side and a bit frizzy too - not what I was looking for. All this time, my ends were improving, except the damaged area was less, but still large. The matting was definitely gone now.

By April last year, I had gone WO, using an occasional egg or coconut oil to help elleviate the waxies until I switched to filtered water. Once I switched to filtered water my hair was much better. The damaged area had minimized to a two inch section, stretching about 2-3 inches up the shaft, but my hair had a yellow tinge to it if I didn't use a really new filter, or used water from the tap (hard water), and my hair had hair cleavage (something new to me).

Two months ago I took the leap to SO. My ends have been improving. The damage has minimised to less than an inch section that I now realise is hair from my crown. For a while now, that was the only area that seemed to remain somewhat dry, and I was hoping it could change with micro trims (I gave myself one 2 weeks ago), but all my ends are suddenly dry, off and on, even with lots of preening, and I'm afraid the damaged is moving up the hairs again.

So basically, about 11-12 inches of my hair has never touched product, and it's only now I realise, I never even clarified my hair before I started all this. Do you think I should clarify the ends? I noticed oil on the ends results in that hay-like effect, which from reading the threads, means there's product??? Is that right?

I don't really understand damage either. Are the damaged hairs going to remain damaged until they fall out?? It seems they start to get better and then *POOF* another couple inches up the shaft is damaged and rough. I have no split ends by the way, never have. Obviously, I don't use heat on them, or any strange products. I've had my hair up for ths entire 2 months other than a day or two.

I would like to continue on the NW/SO path for the most part, but if there is something I absolutely must do and I have no alternatives, then I will do it, as long as it''s not toxic or expensive. I just want to, you know...:pins: the damaged parts.

If you made it all this way, I commend you. :toast: :D

Thanks for reading!

[Amber_Maiden]

Never know what could be in the water you have, so clarifying might be a good way of getting rid of mineral buildup. I hear you can also use a lemon juice rinse, or club soda. Or vinegar.

[Bedhead]

Vinegar clarifies? If so then I've done that, I just found it turned my hair to hay too.

[Madora]

Sounds like lack of moisture to me. Your hair needs to be moisturized..both inside and out.

Ktani has written an article about mineral oil that several members have found very helpful:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=225

There's also a mineral oil thread.

[Anywhere]

The damage will be there until it is cut off. It might improve, but it'll still be damaged. I understand you want to stay NW/SO, but I really do think it would be a good idea to clarify, moisturize [or not], and then go back to NW/SO.

And as for oil turning hair hay-like. I get that EVERY TIME with coconut oil, whether there's product residue on my hair or not. I rarely get it with EVOO. Maybe your hair just doesn't like certain oils as well?

[jacqueline101]

I'd trim the damage ends and moisturize your ends real real.

[kdaniels8811]

Search the forum for catnip tea, it saved my hair. Another wonderful article brought to you by Ktani.

[Madora]

Ktani's catnip article:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=118

[lapushka]

I also think it's time to clarify and give your hair lots of conditioning / moisture afterwards.

[Bedhead]

Thank you everyone! I will take this all into consideration. :)

I found the mineral oil thread *just gave mine away last month!), so will peruse the thread. Honestly though, I can't stand the smell of baby powder, BUT if it'll help heal my hair, I will be strong and suck it up. Ktani mentions colouring the hair a lot with catnip, this concerns me as I have no desire to do this; now that I've stopped using my city's water I finally have the vibrancy of my reds back. So, I'll sit on that for a bit and ponder.

This is where I'm confused. I have cut the damage off many times, but even though I took the time to moisturize the ends, the same damage comes back in the exact same place, although not as bad. I put my hair up to sleep too. So that's why I'm wondering if once a hair is damaged on the bottom, if it's technically damaged even if you cut the damage off? I have no issues about cutting it, it grows like a weed and it's health comes first before length, I'm just worried about a repeat performance, and I would really like to understand what's happening, not just follow all your wonderful suggestion.

If I clarify, should I just clarify the bottom half since the top is pretty much virgin hair?

I don't think diet is an issue anymore. I eat very healthily, and get plenty of lovely good for you oils in my diet. I think I'm just, looking at the outside now.

Again, thank you all for taking the time. I'm just so frustrated at this point, I thought it was time to ask for help. :flower:

[lapushka]

If I clarify, should I just clarify the bottom half since the top is pretty much virgin hair?

If it were me, I'd clarify the scalp and the length, then condition well and maybe use the mineral oil instead of a serum on the ends. Then re-assess the damage. I'd try it first before drawing final conclusions and just hacking it off.

[ratgirldjh]

You could do a bentonite clay mask. It wouldn't hurt your hair and it does take off residues from oils, (protein if you add sea salt) and light build ups.

Bentonite mixed with sea salt saved my hair years ago when I got bad build up from Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner. It always leaves my ends pretty soft too!

If you decide to try the clay make sure you do a weak ACV rinse (i use 1 tsp in a liter of water) otherwise since bentonite has a pH of 9.5 you hair will feel weird and grabby! Also it makes sure that the clay washes away since the clay bonds to things like sebum and 'impurities' etc. and then needs to be thoroughly washed out.

[Bedhead]

Okay, so I won't cut it. This week I've been doing a constant Frenchish faut crown braid with my ends tucked, and I'm noticing an improvement with the majority of my ends, just not so much the damaged area. But I can't do this forever. So I'm going to see where my hair's at by the end of the week of doing this, and then take the required measures. Now that I have a clearer direction, it's just a matter of my feeling comfortable and I guess realistic. :p

Thanks again!!! :)

[CarpeDM]

What works for me are trims and olive oil.

[katsrevenge]

Hmm.... I can't speak on the WO/SO thing (I did WO in HS years ago.. but it was more out of stubbornness and parental defiance then anything else!)... but these are things I've noticed.

My hair really likes a SMT from time to time. If you don't use conditioners.. try a bit more aloe or some shea butter instead.. perhaps?

Extra Virgin Olive oil. I use it sparingly but it's great as a ends sealer. If you do use mineral oil, be sure to clarify it out regularly and follow that with some moisture. The stuff is a great barrier but overuse without clarifying will leave you with drier hair (It keeps moisture out as well as it does keeping it in.)

Does vinegar clarify too? I thought you had to use baking soda for that.. and the vinegar helped return your hair to normal? (These days I use VO5 Kiwi Lime clarifying shampoo... it at least smells good.) I do a ACV rinse each time I wash my hair and I do not rinse it out... and I still need to clarify monthly!

I try to keep my ends tucked into buns or well sealed with an oil. Sometimes I even will wrap my night braid tassel in a damp silk strip (putting a hair safe scrunchie over it) to rehydrate them. If I do not keep them tucked or sealed they do get a bit dry. Your tucking them up may be helping.

And before this get to be a teal deer... If you have damage in the same exact place that comes back after a trim with sharp shears... it might be mechanical. Do you wear the same do a lot? Car seatbelt rub there? Have a bag with a strap that hits there..or a coat with a collar that rubs or a velcro something?

My personal nemesis is my computer chair. The wooden back hits me right where my waist length (unbraided that is) braid tassel used to hit. I couldn't figure out where all the damage was coming from.. and why with the amount of new root growth I was getting that a good bit of my hair wasn't 'growing'. Until day I leaned back on my braid... and had an epiphany.

[TiffanieJean]

Theres a lot of good advice on this thread already. :)

I would say definitely clarify. Unfortunately, the damaged hair will always be damaged... It's better to just cut off of the damage, or it will spread up the hair shafts.

[heidi w.]

Vinegar clarifies? If so then I've done that, I just found it turned my hair to hay too.

ACV nor vinegar nor lemon, and I don't think soda that was mentioned above, none of these "clarify" the hair.

Once something has dried on the hair, these things will not remove it. These things merely remove what is residually left on the hair in that specific hair wash. Such as if you rinse out shampoo or conditioner, these concoctions only remove the stuff not yet rinsed out, and hard water minerals. That's it. These things do NOT clarify the hair. That is an entire misunderstanding.

Once something has dried on the hair, once you're there you must "clarify" using a store-bought or home recipe concoction to get it off of the surface of the hair.

The above items can help with pH balancing the scalp skin on the head (to the best of my knowledge, not the hair itself per se), it can remove minerals deposited from hard water in that specific hair wash--and that's about the best it can do. Remove product. That's about it.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Does vinegar clarify too? I thought you had to use baking soda for that.. and the vinegar helped return your hair to normal? (These days I use VO5 Kiwi Lime clarifying shampoo... it at least smells good.) I do a ACV rinse each time I wash my hair and I do not rinse it out... and I still need to clarify monthly! .

Please reference my above post regarding "clarifying".

I am unclear what benefit you seem to be having by leaving the ACV "rinse" in. To the best of my knowledge, there's no benefit to leaving this rinse in the hair. It is a "rinse" meaning we apply and fairly immediately rinse it out.

The change that occurs is that most shampoos and conditioners tend to leave the scalp skin in the pH range that is a bit too alkali (or base, as some online pH scales reference it). You apply ACV or white distilled (and diluted) vinegar (which blondes should use since ACV can tinge lighter colored hair a kind of reddish hue if used a long time) to tweak the pH of the scalp skin itself....not the hair. Most human skin does better a bit more acidic on the pH scale. Human skin generally likes being around neutral on this pH scale, which is about center of the scale, approximately 6.8 on the scale.

Lots of people use ACV to combat dandruff, foul aroma problems on the body, and things like that.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

For the OP, your post doesn't talk one iota about the conditioner you might use. I wonder that you are conditioning? If not, I imagine this is a part of your problem. It's a fairly normal long hair problem to have normal seeming hair on the head, yet the length or ends are dry. This is extremely common, and likely the #1 complaint of those with long hair.

That's why leave-in was invented.

If you do condition, I would recommend a tour of conditioners to find a better conditioner. In my opinion, if you have to choose what to spend money on, choose to spend your duckets on a quality conditioner.

Then consider the use of a leave-in OR oil.

If you have wavy to curly hair, then you definitely need a LOT more moisture. Overall, I agree with Madora that the most likely problem you are having is one of moisture. Hair with curl tends to need more moisture than other hair types, and the curlier you are, the more you need, usually. Curly hair is known to be a bit dry. Curly hair also does not generally respond well to sulfates in shampoo, so consider the idea of an SLS-free shampoo. HOWEVER, make one change at a time, so if something goes awry, you can easily identify the culprit. If you change a bunch of things at once, you have no way of figuring out what the problem really is.

I recently posted a video on how I oil my stick straight hair. That might be helpful. It's on Mane Forum. I posted the video on youtube. IF you google it, it's easier to find than if you try to find it on youtube without having the link, I found out.

It's very important to eat well, and take medications for hormonal issues or problems with anemia (which is often resolveable through diet alone).

I am going to look at pictures of your hair if I can find them. I might be back. You claim damage, but describe mere dryness, so I am not very clear that we have actual "damage" that really needs a trim or something like that.

heidi w.

[Dragon Faery]

Given that you've so thoroughly changed your diet and hair care routine and seen such dramatic results, it's no wonder you're frustrated with this one remaining problem. If I read your initial post correctly, you said you have damaged ends, but only in one spot--the hair from the crown--is that right?

I would suspect mechanical damage if everything else is responding happily to your current routine. If it's ALL your ends that are having trouble, then something's still not working for you in general.

It sounds like your hair hates products, is that correct? But that NW/SO has been working very well for you? If that's what you were saying, and if the damage is contained to this one section, and you can't find ANYTHING that might be causing mechanical damage due to repetitive stress or rubbing (or even something you do at the crown of your head that might show up as damage on the ends over time), then it's possible you have a patch of hair of a different type on that part of your head. My hair is 3a-ish at the crown and in front, roughly 2c/2b throughout the middle layers, and nearly 1b at my nape. I have fine, medium, and coarse hairs on my head, in black, brown, ginger, and even a few blonde. SO if by "damage" you mean the shafts of these hairs look kinked or rougher than the hairs around them, maybe they're really curlier? Just a thought.

I'm not very familiar with NW/SO routines, but if it's working so well for the rest of your hair, maybe there's simply something different that needs to be done to that one section of hair. Maybe it needs to be protected more, or maybe it needs a little more of whatever you do to condition your hair. More sebum? A little oil just in that spot?

It's also possible that there is still an underlying health issue, or that as your body is recovering from its former problems, that is the last place of all to recover, and a year or two more of doing everything you currently do could make it simply fade away.

I hope you figure it out. Good luck!

[katsrevenge]

Please reference my above post regarding "clarifying".

I am unclear what benefit you seem to be having by leaving the ACV "rinse" in. To the best of my knowledge, there's no benefit to leaving this rinse in the hair. It is a "rinse" meaning we apply and fairly immediately rinse it out.

The change that occurs is that most shampoos and conditioners tend to leave the scalp skin in the pH range that is a bit too alkali (or base, as some online pH scales reference it). You apply ACV or white distilled (and diluted) vinegar (which blondes should use since ACV can tinge lighter colored hair a kind of reddish hue if used a long time) to tweak the pH of the scalp skin itself....not the hair. Most human skin does better a bit more acidic on the pH scale. Human skin generally likes being around neutral on this pH scale, which is about center of the scale, approximately 6.8 on the scale.

Lots of people use ACV to combat dandruff, foul aroma problems on the body, and things like that.

heidi w.

Ah, I don't think leaving it in or rinsing it out matters much to my hair. :)

It does to my scalp though!
I rinse it out and a day and half later my scalp is itchy. I leave it in and I can stretch a wash 5-6 days with no itch and very little oil build up at the scalp. I don't use it at all... I will need medicated products or tar shampoo.

So I leave it in.. and it stays in the length as I just don't care enough to try and rinse half my hair out.

[Bedhead]

Hello again!

Wow! I didn't expect anymore answers, and well thought out ones at that! Thank you! It means a lot to me. :)

Heidi, thank you for clarifying the clarifying mystery! I'm sure that will come in handy very soon. As for conditioning, When I was on WO, I used 5 drops of jojoba oil pressed into my ends before the final rinse, which seemed to leave just enough in to leave my hair happy. With SO, I've been using, well, sebum; if my hair seems dry I preen and spread the sebum down to the ends. That was going fine until two weeks ago, when my hair just sort of freaked out, at that point my entire hair's balance was thrown off. Ywo things happened, I had a very difficult menstrual cycle and I ave myself a micro-trim. The following week, I ended up misting with an infusion and coating the ends with shea butter, continuing the shea butter here and there, but it wasn't helping the damage. Lately, tucking my ends against my scalp is helping both the dryness and the damage, but the damaged spot doesn't seem to be smoothing like it used to when I preen. I have attached a photo from 31/2 weeks ago. The yellowed hair behind my shoulder that looks like a bit of wave is the evil spot. In fact, if you look at the picture and take note of all the slight yellowed areas, it's from that point up that is virgin hair. I'll see if I can get a more clear photo of the damage itself in the morning.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=9866&pictureid=127337

Katsrevenge and Dragon Faery, you both mentioned mechanical damage, and the only thing that has been consistent all this time is the presence of a chair I sit in quite a bit in my office. It's material is quite rough, and could very well rub the hair in that spot, so I suspect is a contributor to the last peice of the puzzle However, I haven't worn my hair down in two months while sitting in this chair. I did many times before while doing WO though, and the damaged reared it's ugly head in mid December.

Dragon Faery, yes it's true, my hair doesn't seem to like products, nor my city's water. If I go elsewhere, my hair does a lot better. The thing that triggered me going of SLS was the combination of frizz and my hair falling out by the hundreds, to the point that my widows peak was no more. Once I went of SLS, this lessened, greatly. Once I started WO, it lessened once more. Once I started using filtered water, I started getting baby hairs. And once I started SO, I got baby hairs like you wouldn't believe! I have about one inch in depth of baby hairs framing my face, my entire new widows peak included.

I think you're onto something about the different hair. Other than colour, you could have been describing my hair (when I use water). So maybe because of the difference in hair, it's reacting different than the other hair surrounding it and therefeore has different needs? Is this what you're getting at?

TiffanieJean, thank you for your answer. I've been trying to get a straight-up answer to my question for years, so thanyou for hearing me.

I'm feeling hopeful again. :)

[swearnsue]

I don't know what NW/SO is. My hair isn't very long so take my advice for what it's worth (probably not much). I would clarify with baking soda per other threads, then shampoo with diluted shampoo once or twice a week and conditioner followed with a ACV rinse. In other words, just old fashioned hair care. You have tried so hard to find the right regime for your hair but I think maybe you have tried too hard. You know? I would also add a little baby oil to the ends while your hair is damp. This will help with the moisture retention but not build up on your hair. I saw your pic and your hair looks very beautiful.

[Dragon Faery]

Hello again!
I have attached a photo from 31/2 weeks ago. The yellowed hair behind my shoulder that looks like a bit of wave is the evil spot. In fact, if you look at the picture and take note of all the slight yellowed areas, it's from that point up that is virgin hair. I'll see if I can get a more clear photo of the damage itself in the morning.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=9866&pictureid=127337

Katsrevenge and Dragon Faery, you both mentioned mechanical damage, and the only thing that has been consistent all this time is the presence of a chair I sit in quite a bit in my office. It's material is quite rough, and could very well rub the hair in that spot, so I suspect is a contributor to the last peice of the puzzle However, I haven't worn my hair down in two months while sitting in this chair. I did many times before while doing WO though, and the damaged reared it's ugly head in mid December.

Dragon Faery, yes it's true, my hair doesn't seem to like products, nor my city's water. If I go elsewhere, my hair does a lot better. The thing that triggered me going of SLS was the combination of frizz and my hair falling out by the hundreds, to the point that my widows peak was no more. Once I went of SLS, this lessened, greatly. Once I started WO, it lessened once more. Once I started using filtered water, I started getting baby hairs. And once I started SO, I got baby hairs like you wouldn't believe! I have about one inch in depth of baby hairs framing my face, my entire new widows peak included.

I think you're onto something about the different hair. Other than colour, you could have been describing my hair (when I use water). So maybe because of the difference in hair, it's reacting different than the other hair surrounding it and therefeore has different needs? Is this what you're getting at?


I'm feeling hopeful again. :)

Regarding the chair, it could be damage from several months ago that's only just now making itself known, if that part of your hair was long enough to touch the chair before. Since hair is like a rope that slowly frays over time, eventually damage will shopw up on even the most welll-cared-for and protected head. It will just vary in rate, depending on care and the strength of that particular hair. So it's possible that if that part was stressed a bit more before you started wearing it up, even something like sleeping on it could be revealing accelerated damage in that area. Annoying, but possible.

I'm glad you've found a routine that works so well for you! And I really admire your patience with it. I would have given up long ago.

If your hair is indeed different there, and especially if it's curlier, it simply needs MORE TLC than it's currently getting, and will probably always be the first place to show damage. My entire crown and top of my head always show damage first, and it drives me crazy. There may or may not be a "magic" cure for you. For my hair, I just try to keep those places extra-moisturized until they can't be saved any longer. Then I S&D and dust them, and sometimes that can buy me another month or two before I have to dust again or do a real trim. Shea butter helps my ends sometimes. I don't know how your hair would feel about a little of somthing like that in that specific spot, but maybe a teensy bit of something could tide you over until you absolutely can't save them any longer?

About the yellowing: my hair does this, too, but because I'm darker, it goes coppery and the coppery bits are always like straw. This annoys me since I've always wanted to be a redhead, and I can't keep the reddish bits! :(

I really hope you can find the right solution! Good luck!

[Bedhead]

Here are some photos I took today of the damage itself. I pulled it over my head to compare with my 100% healthy virgin hair in the front. Obviously the lighter velcro looking one is the damaged part. And this is all of it that's left - not much but annoying.

Before I preened:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=9866&pictureid=129323

After I preened:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=9866&pictureid=129322

[Bedhead]

Regarding the chair, it could be damage from several months ago that's only just now making itself known, if that part of your hair was long enough to touch the chair before. Since hair is like a rope that slowly frays over time, eventually damage will shopw up on even the most welll-cared-for and protected head. It will just vary in rate, depending on care and the strength of that particular hair. So it's possible that if that part was stressed a bit more before you started wearing it up, even something like sleeping on it could be revealing accelerated damage in that area. Annoying, but possible.

I'm glad you've found a routine that works so well for you! And I really admire your patience with it. I would have given up long ago.

If your hair is indeed different there, and especially if it's curlier, it simply needs MORE TLC than it's currently getting, and will probably always be the first place to show damage. My entire crown and top of my head always show damage first, and it drives me crazy. There may or may not be a "magic" cure for you. For my hair, I just try to keep those places extra-moisturized until they can't be saved any longer. Then I S&D and dust them, and sometimes that can buy me another month or two before I have to dust again or do a real trim. Shea butter helps my ends sometimes. I don't know how your hair would feel about a little of somthing like that in that specific spot, but maybe a teensy bit of something could tide you over until you absolutely can't save them any longer?

About the yellowing: my hair does this, too, but because I'm darker, it goes coppery and the coppery bits are always like straw. This annoys me since I've always wanted to be a redhead, and I can't keep the reddish bits! :(

I really hope you can find the right solution! Good luck!

Thanks Dragon Faery! This is good information, and I'll be sure to keep it in mind when I take the steps toward healing this final bit. :)

BTW, having red hair is just like having any natural hair. When you have it, you see it everyday, so it doesn't seem so special. I think it might be more for other people to enjoy looking at, because for the most part, I only get to see it for a short time in the mirror in lighting that makes my hair look, well, brown. ;)

[Bedhead]

I don't know what NW/SO is. My hair isn't very long so take my advice for what it's worth (probably not much). I would clarify with baking soda per other threads, then shampoo with diluted shampoo once or twice a week and conditioner followed with a ACV rinse. In other words, just old fashioned hair care. You have tried so hard to find the right regime for your hair but I think maybe you have tried too hard. You know? I would also add a little baby oil to the ends while your hair is damp. This will help with the moisture retention but not build up on your hair. I saw your pic and your hair looks very beautiful.

I can see how you would think I've tried too hard when you read it all at once, but keep in mind this all transpired over four years. I know I'm hesitant to use shampoo, because that wasn't going so well in the past, and the hair I lost is just growing back. But I will think on it.

Thank you for your input swearnsue, and thank you for the compliment.:)

[Dragon Faery]

Thanks Dragon Faery! This is good information, and I'll be sure to keep it in mind when I take the steps toward healing this final bit. :)

BTW, having red hair is just like having any natural hair. When you have it, you see it everyday, so it doesn't seem so special. I think it might be more for other people to enjoy looking at, because for the most part, I only get to see it for a short time in the mirror in lighting that makes my hair look, well, brown. ;)

You're welcome. :) And you're right about color. Most people want what we don't have. I love my color, but I also like variety. Part of me wishes I could change my color to suit the occasion, just by thinking about it. ;)

[Bedhead]

Hello!

I just wanted to let you know that with your help and with ktani's unprecedented patience with me, I have decided to clarify with the Nutrogena and continue on my NW/SO journey here and there with jojoba or mineral oil - which, I have yet to decide.

Thanks again!