Budget friendly panacea alternative?

[jennescence]

Does anyone know of something similar to Nightblooming's Panacea Hair Salve?
I cannot afford hers even tho i would love to try it. Not just try it. I would like to buy the big one. Anywho...it would be nice to hear some suggestions:) Just something i can use until i can afford to buy hers.

[Kyla]

Well, the smallest size actually lasts a while (I use it whenever I wash my hair, and it's last me months). I just use a tiny bit on my ends. It's fairly cheap as well. :)

You could also just make your own mix of oils and butters if you already have them to see how they turn out, but the problem is those ingredients are often sold in larger, more expensive containers.

[ktani]

Does anyone know of something similar to Nightblooming's Panacea Hair Salve?
I cannot afford hers even tho i would love to try it. Not just try it. I would like to buy the big one. Anywho...it would be nice to hear some suggestions:) Just something i can use until i can afford to buy hers.

You can easily make your own version from this. ETA: The recipe dates back to 2003.

Fox's Original and Innovative Shea Butter Cream
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487

Tips from Fox
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487&page=8

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487&page=9

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=490613&postcount=58

Coconut oil used in Fox's Shea Butter Cream recipe cannot penetrate hair and prevent protein loss but it can make this a great surface conditioner.

The shea butter and conditioner in the mix will prevent the lauric acid in coconut oil from penetrating the hair.

The key with this recipe is not to use too much or it can be sticky and build-up.

[jennescence]

Thank you so much guys:) I might just have to quit being cheap tho and rake out the money.I like the idea of making my own tho

[ktani]

Thank you so much guys:) I might just have to quit being cheap tho and rake out the money.I like the idea of making my own tho

You are very welcome.

[gretchen_hair]

From the ingredient list, it's mostly Shea and Coconut oils. You could get some of each and try a 50/50 mix, adjust it a little at a time and go form there to see what works for you. :flower:


ETA: here is a half pound of shea butter on Ebay for $6 including shipping, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Half-Pound-White-Organic-Unrefined-Raw-SHEA-Butter-100-Authentic-1-2-lb-8-oz-/320791683225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab0aca099

WalMart has Coconut oil in a liter tub for about $6 . Or here is some on Ebay, one pound for under $11 including shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NATURES-WAY-Extra-Virgin-ORGANIC-COCONUT-OIL-16oz-/280709527922?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415b977972

[pepperminttea]

From the ingredient list, it's mostly Shea and Coconut oils. You could get some of each and try a 50/50 mix

I'd recommend reading the first couple of pages of this thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=50728) beforehand. The panacea texture is quite different to how shea and coconut would be together with nothing else.

(The small tubs really do last quite a while, too. :flower: )

[ktani]

Using conditioner makes a difference in the final texture. That is why the Fox's original recipe is still a success, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4586.

ETA: The choice of oil and conditioner is up to you. The original thread has the recipe variations others preferred.

[Maelyssa]

I purchased the sample size of the Panacea and have hip length hair. It lasted well over two months for me. It's definitely worth trying out a sample size.

[Synnovea]

I second what others have said about the sample size. I've barely made a dent in it and I've had it for about a month now.

[Nightshade]

You can easily make your own version from this. ETA: The recipe dates back to 2003.

Fox's Original and Innovative Shea Butter Cream
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487

Tips from Fox
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487&page=8

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487&page=9

http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=490613&postcount=58

Coconut oil used in Fox's Shea Butter Cream recipe cannot penetrate hair and prevent protein loss but it can make this a great surface conditioner.

The shea butter and conditioner in the mix will prevent the lauric acid in coconut oil from penetrating the hair.

The key with this recipe is not to use too much or it can be sticky and build-up.

For the record, ktani, Panacea is not the same as Fox's shea butter cream and your conjecture on that point is both incorrect and unwelcome.

[QueenMadge]

I have made Fox's recipe and I have purchased Panacea from Nightshade's Nightblooming site.

They are very different things.

A small amount of the panacea goes a long ways. I bought a small jar originally and then was fortunate to receive a large jar as a present. Perhaps there is someone in your life who would gift you it too so you can try it for yourself?

Fox's recipe is nice and it is beneficial for the hair but it is not the same.

[kwaniesiam]

Am I the only one who personally finds it extremely RUDE to ask for a KNOCKOFF of a product sold by a well respected member here? It's her recipe and her creation. Seriously, you're asking for places that copies her work and rips her off?

Panacea salve is amazing. If you cannot afford it, get a sample size to test it out and save up for a full size next time. A little goes a long way and its not as expensive as you think in the long run.

[Keenkitty]

Seriously? Nightshade's stuff is far below average price, is literally half what you are going to spend trying to make your own, AND you are supporting a known and respected LHC member.

Now perhaps its because she is a friend, or perhaps because people are making assumptions that they can "dupe" other peoples products is why I am annoyed by this.

But seriously 3.75 is too steep? *shakes head*

Now I remember why I don't read the boards.

Save up 2 bucks a week for a few months or go return some cans and you have enough for the "pricey" 13.75 jar.

[QueenMadge]

I do not think the OP meant any disrespect. I do understand about financial constraints. That said the rest of the thread with the links to other recipes and products is not very well thought out I think with respect to the product being asked about.

Getting recipes for stuff and diy'ing it are o.k. by themselves but the thought that you can dupe a product like panacea or inferring that it is the same or taken from another person's recipe for something different is not nice imo.

[Ishje]

why don't you go on the internet, and find out what ingredients are good for your hair?
that way you can make your own unique hair mask / leave in.
there is enough information to find out what you can do, and also you will be more original than trying to copy someone.
and, maybe you can even meet the needs of your hair better, by finding out what your hair loves most.

as of the price, if you have to buy the ingredients yourself it really will not be cheaper.
you have to buy in bulk, and it is very likely you won't use all the ingredients so you might have to throw away some.
Nightblooming really is not very expensive, and certainly not as expensive as making it yourself.
I bought some pancea about a year ago, and I am not even halfway the jar yet, but I do use it a lot.
I like to make my own soap and hair masks, but that is because of fun, not to save costs.

[dajanchen]

For the record, ktani, Panacea is not the same as Fox's shea butter cream and your conjecture on that point is both incorrect and unwelcome.

I think Nightshade has already pointed it out. It´s not the same. The salve is great and not expensive at all.


Am I the only one who personally finds it extremely RUDE to ask for a KNOCKOFF of a product sold by a well respected member here? It's her recipe and her creation. Seriously, you're asking for places that copies her work and rips her off?

Here me! I am right behind you. :D It is extremely rude to ask for a KNOCKOFF!


Seriously? Nightshade's stuff is far below average price, is literally half what you are going to spend trying to make your own, AND you are supporting a known and respected LHC member.

Now perhaps its because she is a friend, or perhaps because people are making assumptions that they can "dupe" other peoples products is why I am annoyed by this.

But seriously 3.75 is too steep? *shakes head*

Now I remember why I don't read the boards.

Save up 2 bucks a week for a few months or go return some cans and you have enough for the "pricey" 13.75 jar.


This!!! Get a job!

[ktani]

For the record, ktani, Panacea is not the same as Fox's shea butter cream and your conjecture on that point is both incorrect and unwelcome.

For the record, I did not say they were the same. The OP wants a version of it. One can be made from Fox's recipe, which has the same basic ingredients.

ETA: Knockoffs have been promoted here like Sally's version of Biolage Conditioning Cream Correction: Balm - and shampoos that are knockoffs of Garnier ones, that can be purchased at dollar stores.

[GRU]

Fox's Shea Butter Cream and Panacea aren't even close to the same product, IMO. That would be like comparing a dandruff shampoo to a shampoo bar. Yes, they're both to be put on the hair, but that's where the similarity ends.

Go ahead and make Fox's if you want, but it's not a replacement for Panacea.

[gretchen_hair]

I think it's more rude to tell the OP that she is rude or out of line for simply asking if she could find a knockoff of something.

The 2 main ingredients in Fox's and Panacea are Shea butter and Coconut oil. An 8oz container of the Panacea is almost $50 with shipping. 8 oz of Shea is $6 and 33 oz of coconut oil at WalMart is $6. So, for $12 a person could have a *similar* version made with the same main ingredients and have at least a pound of the mix (at a 50/50 ratio) for 1/4 of the price and still have a lot of Coconut oil leftover.

It is out of line to tell someone that they should just *buy the sample* (which is what, 1/2 OUNCE?) and more or less get over it and support a well known member.

If I recall correctly, we aren't here to SUPPORT any ONE members store or products and many of us make efforts to save money where we can but enjoy the benefits of a similar product or a products made with the same basic ingredients.

I am always looking for ways to get the benefits of certain oils or products without having to spend a $50 dollar bill on 8 oz of product.

ktani was simply offering a suggestion of a product that was very similarly composed of the MAIN INGREDIENTS, that can be obtained at a much cheaper cost and get a much greater amount.

The OP should not be ridiculed or shamed into buying the name brand product, she said she would love a big jar but can't afford it, I am in the same situation, I would love to buy a big ole jar too but I don't because 8oz for $50 is too expensive for me. And 1/2 oz of sample size (for almost $6, including shipping) will get me a half pound of Shea butter and all I need is another $6 for the Coconut oil at WalMart. So for $12, I can have the main ingredients, and a total of 2 and a half pounds of oils versus 1/2 pound for 25 percent of the price.

I am not saying that someone doesn't deserve the money that they sell their product for, but some of us can't afford that. No one is asking for a secret recipe, or the formulation, or even for someone to concoct a mixture and sell it under guise of being *just like Panacea*

The op *simply* asked for a different version. It's unfair to make her feel like she is a bad person or that she is wrong for *asking*

I did the same thing with the Ojon craze, I just bought the Palm Oil. It's the main ingredient without all the frills and thrills, I am not saying it's the *same*, but it's the main ingredient in Ojon and seemed to do the trick.

The same thing with the WEN craze, why spend $30 on an 8oz container when V05 will do for $1? Many of us have had that discussion as well. Are we saying that WEN and V05 are the same or that we should just pony up and buy WEN? No. We are saying we can CO at a cheaper cost with something similar.

OP, please don't feel bad for asking a simple question. Do what is right for YOU and glean what information you can from all the input you have received here. :flower:

FWIW, we can all tap into our inner kitchen witch and find products that will suit us and benefit us and be just as happy with the non brands or no frills versions and it does just a good a job at a smaller price.

ETA: I find it appalling that people are downing the OP because she doesn't have it in her budget to spend 6$ on 1/2 oz of product or $13.75 plus shipping or even $50 for an 8oz jar of something. She does not have to feel like she has to support anyone on this forum or anyone at Etsy or anyone at Ebay or anyone in any company, she can buy what she likes and not be made to feel like crap for it. No one is suggesting that are attempting to *dupe* someones secret recipe or even making something to sell.

Last time I checked, we were allowed to have discussion on how to make our own products at home, for our own use. This isn't an attempt to duplicate something and make a profit, the OP is trying to save money and still enjoy the beneficial properties of the main oils.

[gretchen_hair]

wow....get a job? This is your advice? THAT is extremely uncalled for. :(

We don't know what the life situation of the OP is, or if she has a job, or goes to school, or is disabled, etc.

To suggest that someone else *get a job* so that they can support another persons business is just.....mind boggling and beyond rude. :confused:

For the *return some cans* comment, that was extremely out of line as well. the OP is not obligated to spend her money at anyones shop. She doesn't have to return cans or get a job so that she can buy any one item that anyone has for sale. :confused:

And for the perceived rudeness at asking for knockoffs, there are thread after thread after thread on recipes for knockoffs of many products. Just because the person who makes the name brand product happens to be a member here, does not make it any more rude or any less acceptable to try to find an ALTERNATIVE product.

She wasn't asking for something the exact same....just something SIMILAR.


I think Nightshade has already pointed it out. It´s not the same. The salve is great and not expensive at all.



Here me! I am right behind you. :D It is extremely rude to ask for a KNOCKOFF!




This!!! Get a job!

[mira-chan]

Not to get into any arguments here I'd just like to make an ingredient note that may be helpful to the people making things themselves. I make my own mixes and have never tried either of the cremes.

Note main ingredients, you can use those on your own. Interactions between ingredients do matter, also concentrations matter.

For example a conditioner may have 0.002% botanical ingredients and things like Fox's cream or panacea will have actual measurable amount of botanical ingredients other than the main base. The difference in effect is huge. It's all percentage dependent. Just like 1% SLS (aka. SDS) is ok in products and causes no harm in the majority but 20% will eat your skin off.
Source that tested this both externally and internally in mice. (http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/2/7/127)

Take into account your ingredients themselves. Coconut oil is solid in cold climates, shea is pretty solid as well, the texture will vary according to the other ingredients. If you make your own take that into account. I can tell you now that in a colder climate a 50/50 coconut/shea mix is a brick that you'd have to chisel off to use. Guess how I know. ;) You need something that stays liquid at all temperatures to soften it up then.

Also most cheaper sources contain other ingredients ( such as mineral oil) you would need to take that into account when you are making things. If you have a local source of nice cheaper but good quality ingredients then that is a great alternative.

Do your research before making it.

[ktani]

Fox's Original recipe has 3 main ingredients. Oil of choice, shea butter and conditioner of choice. The conditioner of choice can have botanical ingredients or not. It emulsifies the oil and shea butter. Essential oils are optional.

The recipe has been reported to work well with a number of oils and conditioners used. That is why it is still popular.
ETA http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487
"1 part Shea Butter
1 part Conditioner
1/2 part Oil
A few drops of essential oils that compliment your hair type and scent preference"

Yes, proportions do matter.

ETA:2 Emulsifying waxes can be bought to use instead of conditioner, for a Do It Yourself version, http://www.teachsoap.com/emulsifywax.html, and herbs can be added separately if one prefers. The recipe can be varied a number of ways.

ETA:3 Most conditioners are mostly water (some contain herbal "teas"), emulsifying waxes and other ingredients. The easiest way to do this is to try a conditioner you like with shea butter and an oil you like for your hair.

[skaempfer]

Does anyone know of something similar to Nightblooming's Panacea Hair Salve?
I cannot afford hers even tho i would love to try it. Not just try it. I would like to buy the big one. Anywho...it would be nice to hear some suggestions:) Just something i can use until i can afford to buy hers.

:couch:

You ok there, Jennescence? Just ignore all the fur flying. I see you're only 19 so probably in your first job and money is tight, so I totally understand the reason for the question. All kinds of people here have all kinds of different budgets, and there are often post with questions about DIY stuff so people can keep their budgets. You just had the bad luck to pick a product made by a well-loved forum member.
I can't really offer a solution- I think the person (can't remember who it was) that posted that you would spend more money on the ingredients than on the Panacea is right, though. You could try coconut or olive oil until your budget loosens up?

FWIW, I have used Panacea, and it is loooooooovely. Good luck with whatever you try!

[Hypnotica]

Does anyone know of something similar to Nightblooming's Panacea Hair Salve?
I cannot afford hers even tho i would love to try it. Not just try it. I would like to buy the big one. Anywho...it would be nice to hear some suggestions:) Just something i can use until i can afford to buy hers.

I suggest that you try the sample size of Panacea. With your length, it will last a very long time.

[pepperminttea]

Knockoffs have been promoted here like Sally's version of Biolage Conditioning Cream Correction: Balm - and shampoos that are knockoffs of Garnier ones, that can be purchased at dollar stores.

The difference is that those are very large companies, making huge profits each year. Garnier in particular uses a part of those profits to fund testing on animals, and if I recall correctly, Biolage is owned by L'Oreal which does the same.

NightBlooming, on the other hand, is a small artisan on Etsy who holds fund-raisers for vet bills that change the life of the cats she's adopted, like Juniper (http://nightbloominggarden.blogspot.com/search/label/Juniper) and Tsavo (http://nightbloominggarden.blogspot.com/search/label/Tsavo).

Do what works for your hair, most definitely; but do know that supporting someone like NB is very different to buying a typical commercial product.

[ktani]

The difference is that those are very large companies, making huge profits each year. Garnier in particular uses a part of those profits to fund testing on animals, and if I recall correctly, Biolage is owned by L'Oreal which does the same.

NightBlooming, on the other hand, is a small artisan on Etsy who holds fund-raisers for vet bills that change the life of the cats she's adopted, like Juniper (http://nightbloominggarden.blogspot.com/search/label/Juniper) and Tsavo (http://nightbloominggarden.blogspot.com/search/label/Tsavo).

Do what works for your hair, most definitely; but do know that supporting someone like NB is very different to buying a typical commercial product.

The principle is the same to me. I do not buy a product based on profits. I buy and use what works, what I can afford and see as reasonable in price, for what I am getting for any product, period.

Large companies contribute large amounts of money to charities and raise funds for many causes.

Fundraising for personal debt no matter what the cause and my heart goes out to people here in dire straights to pay personal medical bills and mortgages ETA: as well - is not why I buy a product either. See above.

[pepperminttea]

Oh it's not the main reason why I buy it. I buy it because it's awesome. :D But it's certainly light on the conscience too!


Incidentally, I've yet to need the 8oz. ones either. The 2oz. last me about a year. I know usage will vary from person to person, but personally I'd look at the 2oz. price as the 'typical' rather than the 8oz.

[krissykins]

Here's my honest opinion about the Panacea vs. Fox's SBCC: they are not even close to the same thing. I have tried both, and while I liked Fox's version, I much prefer the Panacea (winter blend is my favorite). To suggest that buying the main ingredients and mixing them together is even CLOSE to the panacea is wrong. I've mixed together pure coconut oil and pure shea butter and it is just a mess on my hair. What makes the Panacea special is the other ingredients working together with the main ingredients. In fact, that can be said about a lot of products, don't you think? ;)

With that being said, I think it is wrong to attack the OP for wanting a knockoff. She did not ask for people to attack her, she asked for an alternative. I love the Panacea and its wonderful creator (Nightshade, I know you're watching this thread, so :smooch:), but she didn't know we are so protective over this product and our lovely Nightshade/Nightblooming.

OP: I hope you are doing all right. I would highly recommend trying the Panacea. I would gift it to you if I still had a job and didn't need to spend what little money I have left on my best friend's wedding. :p Maybe you can try asking a friend/family member/significant other for a present? :D

PS: PANACEA FTW!!! :lol:

[Long_hair_bear]

I love nightbloomings panacea! It is fully worth the $4 or $5 for the sample and lasts forever. I'm with nightshade though. Asking for a knockoff of a well respected members product is abit harsh, though I'm not trying to start anything with anyone.

[chloeishere]

I understand wondering if there is a knockoff (I would have wondered the same thing as a new person on the forum). It is fairly cost effective to purchase it from the source, when you have more funds.

Fox's Shea Cream is nice, but is nothing like panacea, which I have also tried. They are so different I would not venture a comparison (regardless of the "similar ingredients.") I have two sample containers of panacea (that I got off the swap board), and I need barely any (a dab on the fingertip of my index finger) on my near-tailbone length hair as a leave-in (I don't use it as a deep treatment, personally). My hair is finer and less thick than yours, so you may need to use more-- but it's not a product you need a giant tub of, especially at first, IMO.

That said, you certainly do not need to buy panacea to grow long, healthy hair. I like plain old coconut oil as a deep treatment, I gob in a bunch and put a plastic bag over it to keep my head warm. Using coconut oil and shea butter combined by themselves as a leave-in will probably be sticky and close to solid unless it's very warm where you live, just FYI.

I don't think it was necessary to tell the OP she should "get a job", as we don't know her situation-- not everyone wants to spend a lot on hair products (and that's not a bad thing). When I first joined the forum, I was hesitant to spend a lot of money on ANYTHING for my hair, since I didn't know what would work for me, and I didn't know if it would be a long lasting interest of mine. The OP may not have known that Nightblooming is a shop owned by an LHC member, and since she's never used it, she might not realize how different it is, and therefore difficult to find a comparable product.

ETA: Those who have never tried panacea (which is fine, it's none of my business what you do or don't buy or why), are probably not the most qualified to suggest substitutions for it. Purchasing emulsifying wax, shea butter, and coconut oil (and it would be hard to find small amounts for cheaper than a sample size) will almost certainly require a larger initial financial output for a product that is not at all similar, and also may not work well for the OP. I have several pounds of shea butter, cocoa butter, jojoba oil, etc. sitting in the basement, slowly going bad because I bought a lot of stuff when I joined here, thinking it would be a good investment, but they don't work especially well for my hair or skin. Having a larger quantity of a product that doesn't work is not better.

Welcome to LHC, jennescence!

[jennescence]

Well than, I would just like to simply add that i do have a job. Making $11.00 an hour liftinng about 1,400 50 pound boxes a day. I do not have extra money because My oldest brother died from diabetes a year ago and i now care for his four children. 1 girl and 3 boys. At 19. All by myself. So shame on you for telling me to get a job. I have sacrificed everything for these children. Given up my hopes and dreams of college for them. But i love them so it does not matter for me. As far as collecting cans. Well i do that too lol. I cannot afford one thing right now. It does not mean i will not buy it in the future. I love what Nightblooming is all about. So please watch what you say. You never know someones situation or what they are going through. I come here to let go and have some time to myself. It seems harder and harder sometimes to come here and enjoy myself.

[SimplyViki]

Another one who has tried both Fox's cream and Nightblooming's Panacea here! :waving:

I came across the recipe for Fox's cream when I was lurking around the boards before I joined. I tried it out, and found it was sticky and unpleasant to use on my hair.

Later on, when I found Nightblooming's Panacea, I didn't buy it for a while because I recognized some similar ingredients and also figured that they were essentially the same thing. I'm glad I finally tried it, though, because it turns out that they're not the same at all - they behave much differently in my hair. The Panacea is smoother and silkier, so I actually enjoy using it. Plus it smells pretty!

ETA: Jennescence, I'm sorry you're going through a tough time right now, and that you've been made to feel like you have to explain your personal life to us. :grouphug:

[jennescence]

ETA: Jennescence, I'm sorry you're going through a tough time right now, and that you've been made to feel like you have to explain your personal life to us.
I never wanted this place to be about my personal life , but people must understand they cannot say certain things.

[jennescence]

I'm pretty sure i am going to buy the small one asap:)

[Deborah]

I never wanted this place to be about my personal life , but people must understand they cannot say certain things.

You poor little thing. I hate the way snotty people have trashed you on this thread. If you will PM me your real name and mailing address, I'll buy some and have it sent to you. I'd love to do this for you, so please let me.

Deborah

[jennescence]

You poor little thing. I hate the way snotty people have trashed you on this thread. If you will PM me your real name and mailing address, I'll buy some and have it sent to you. I'd love to do this for you, so please let me.

Deborahi will pm you:) but just to be friends. I dont want people to feel bad about me:(

[LaceyNg]

You poor little thing. I hate the way snotty people have trashed you on this thread. If you will PM me your real name and mailing address, I'll buy some and have it sent to you. I'd love to do this for you, so please let me.

Deborah

that's so sweet of you, Deborah! its nice to see the compassion we can have for people we've never even met :)

[princessp]

I think you will love the panacea jennescence! And I would send you the remainder of my small size too, but it looks like Deborah will be sending you a brandy-new one-cool. :)

With that said I think the issue people are having is simply with the word "knock-off", it sort of rubs people the wrong way (me included, I was like "oh no you didn't!" lol). I know the OP meant no harm though. This community just has a long history regarding this. In my short time here I have witnessed some of the hair product/hairtoy wars that have gone on. So please jennescence try not to take it personally, it isn't you. :blossom:

With that said I love, love, LOVE you Nightshade (you know that right?) :flower: and you must know I love your products (BTW, I've just tried your annointing oil and it is to die for). But I also agree with gretchen_hair that LHC should not be a place where we make people feel bad for not buying products from one vender or another. We should all feel like we can give honest reviews of products without retribution. Regarding Nightblooming mine happen to be all good, but that doesn't mean someone else has had the same experience with her products. I think these reviews are vital and we should not beat someone up for recounting their experiences/giving alternatives or the information will be biased. We all have different hair. For instance people at LHC seem to overwhelmingly love SMT, but it didn't work for me. I'm thankful I was able to post that in the SMT thread without getting "beat up" for it. Now people know it doesn't work for someone with hair like mine. The OP's concern is not about quality, but about price. Ktani, I think it was kind of you to offer the OP a possible solution. And mira-chan added some really good additional information regarding that. Isn't that one of the reasons why we are here? To help one another out and try to find ways to manage our hair better?

There might be some background "bad blood" floating around this thread among members that I'm not aware of, so I'm sorry if I've stepped on any toes. I'm just saying I believe asking for alternatives and giving suggestions is 100% reasonable.
:couch:

[Nightshade]

Just so everyone knows, jennescence and I had a good chat and are cool with one another :inlove:

I know she didn't mean any harm and understand her financial hardship. :grouphug:

[jennescence]

Before today i didnt even know there was any bad blood:(

[Silver Strands]

The OP never used the words "knock off".
She asked if there was something similar.
That's all.

What a kind gesture Deborah.

Jennescence, your brother is so proud of you i'm sure.
What a wonderful, selfless thing you're doing.

[princessp]

The OP never used the words "knock off".
She asked if there was something similar.
That's all.

What a kind gesture Deborah.

Jennescence, your brother is so proud of you i'm sure.
What a wonderful, selfless thing you're doing.

Um, it's in the title of the thread. :shrug:

[Silver Strands]

Oh, so it is...sorry.
I just read the OP's first line.

[princessp]

Oh, so it is...sorry.
I just read the OP's first line.

Lol that's okay I'm notorious for "speed reading" too. :laugh:

[prosperina]

I just rediscovered the panacea that I bought about a year ago. Somehow I forgot I had it, so I haven't used it for several months :o Yup, my fridge, a black hole. Anyhow, it's still amazing and fresh and I need to remember to put it on my ends!! It's really the only thing that keeps them nice.

[Silver Strands]

Lol that's okay I'm notorious for "speed reading" too. :laugh:


I swear I don't read half of these titles.
I just hit "new posts" and go to town!

[Sillage]

I like to make my own soap and hair masks, but that is because of fun, not to save costs.

Same here! I make my own lotions, serums, creams etc and it gets to be a very expensive hobby. Fun tho :D


Before today i didnt even know there was any bad blood:(

Jennescence, I know you didn't mean to offend anyone with your post but I think if you knew how competitive the market is you'd understand how people could very easily see your innocent question as something else.

[getoffmyskittle]

You know, I totally love Nightshade, but I don't see the purpose in piling on jennescence either. I do believe it would be inappropriate to disclose the recipe for Panacea, or start a big thread attempting to re-create it, but there are much nicer ways to say that than "get a job" or "turn in some cans."

[gretchen_hair]

jenescence, I am sorry about your brother. :grouphug: I cannot imagine losing my sister, you are a very good sister and aunt for taking care of the little ones. You will be rewarded for all your good deeds, you will be rewarded with love and joy and happiness from those lil ones and you will be blessed beyond imagination. :flower:

I am very sorry that many people were hateful, rude, disrespectful and ignorant with some of their comments. The whole forum isn't like that and I know that some people say their intentions were to protect a member of the community, etc. but bullying, intimidation and shaming someone for asking a simple question (that has most likely been asked before) is not a way to protect anyone.

I am beyond disgusted at some of the hideous comments and snide remarks, I hope the people who made those nasty remarks have the courtesy and guts to apologize to you, even if they do so by pm. :grouphug:


If someone came on the boards asking how to replicate something, exactly, so they could sell it for profit is one thing. Someone asking how to make something similar for personal use is not a crime. They even have recipe books on how to make Red Lobster Cheddar Bay Biscuits, Outbacks Blooming Onion, KFC's Chicken, etc. People just want to save some cash, make something they like and enjoy it for themselves, they are not trying to open a business that caters to people who want these items, that are exactly duplicated, at a fraction of the cost.

No one is making a profit and no one is doing anything morally wrong. If that were the case, any company after the first company who made soap, shampoo, conditioner, laundry soap, baby diapers, napkins, ketchup, mayonnaise, croutons, or the other various 1,000,000 items that are in existence today would be guilty of making *their* version of that item. How many shampoos are on the market? How many different brands of crackers and green beans and cookies are there? How many people make cookies at home, chocolate chip cookies, snicker-doodles, sugar cookies? Seriously folks, no one is putting anyone out of business for making a *version* of something for personal use. That person isn't even buying the name brand item, so that *business* isn't even lost! :shrug:

[Kyla]

The OP may not have known that Nightblooming is a shop owned by an LHC member, and since she's never used it, she might not realize how different it is, and therefore difficult to find a comparable product.


This. I actually bought the product a while ago without knowing Nightblooming was a member here. :o

[Isilme]

If you find out after you bought it that it doesn't work for your hair (never worked for mine) It is very useful for dry and cracked heels! I received it as a sample a long time ago so I never had to pay anything for it (thank you Nightshade!) but it made a lovely potion for my permanently dry heels and I'm sure it would for well for elbows and other dry areas too.

[Keenkitty]

OK, so I didn't mean get a job or turn in cans as "you are just being stingy or lazy" I work a job where I am on my feet all day, have a zoo full of rescued animals and a SO to support and live with a debilitating spinal cord injury.

The "point" was that no one said "Hey I understand you can't afford 5.75, try this it may be more economical" I was said this is the same thing and its cheaper and just as good and led the OP to believe it could be cheaper and just as good to "DIY Panacea" and sorry but knowing Nightshade and having done some research with her that's misinformation.

I have in fact saved up cans and put away a few bucks a week to get something that I knew was quality or that I just plain wanted. There is no shame in it, and even if someone doesn't "work" I don't assume they are unemployed. I was a "stay at home cripple" and "dog mommy" as my friends lovingly called me and I definitely had work.

Point? Panacea is quality and Nightshade definitely deserves the money more than some big box store that sells cheap oils. And the OP didn't deserve the misinformation, Panacea does NOT cost 50 dollars shipped, (that was a limited edition 8 ounce jar that people had personally asked for) that is not only untrue but sheds really poor light on Nightblooming.

I know we all have to "do what we gotta do" But I still felt like encouraging a "knockoff" of an already decent priced product (and also I had a 1/2 ounce jar for almost 6 months with waist length hair from Belderan and Nightblooming and several people here also stated the same)

It boils down to 5.75 to give it a whirl, vs cobbling together your own and "hope" it works. Cost wise, it is still cheaper and better for small business to give the Nightshade stuff a go.

And Jenne I was unemployed and raising two kids for 2 years, it SUCKS if you want some of my hair stuff that I tried and didn't car for lemme know :)

KJ

[patienceneeded]

You poor little thing. I hate the way snotty people have trashed you on this thread. If you will PM me your real name and mailing address, I'll buy some and have it sent to you. I'd love to do this for you, so please let me.

Deborah

Wow. This brought tears to my eyes! There has been so much "snarky" and vicious commentary lately, it is nice to see (read?) something caring. To the OP, I too, find it hard to justify the cost of the panacea.

[Deborah]

"Panacea does NOT cost 50 dollars shipped, (that was a limited edition 8 ounce jar that people had personally asked for) that is not only untrue but sheds really poor light on Nightblooming."

True enough. The 2 ounce jar costs $16.50 shipped. The 8 ounce jar costs $51.50 shipped. (Those are today's prices by the way.)

.

[gazelle]

Well than, I would just like to simply add that i do have a job. Making $11.00 an hour liftinng about 1,400 50 pound boxes a day. I do not have extra money because My oldest brother died from diabetes a year ago and i now care for his four children. 1 girl and 3 boys. At 19. All by myself. So shame on you for telling me to get a job. I have sacrificed everything for these children. Given up my hopes and dreams of college for them. But i love them so it does not matter for me. As far as collecting cans. Well i do that too lol. I cannot afford one thing right now. It does not mean i will not buy it in the future. I love what Nightblooming is all about. So please watch what you say. You never know someones situation or what they are going through. I come here to let go and have some time to myself. It seems harder and harder sometimes to come here and enjoy myself.

You are a big person for doing those things at your age.

This is an online forum, the writing language sometimes do not reflect our real feelings. Everyone looks from his/her window and doesn't know about your life and your feelings.

I also think that getting Nightblooming product is cheaper, because it has much herbs and vitamins in it. Collecting ingredients and gathering them right amounts is the thing for who are interested in it. So I prefer to buy the product. There is also a labor and knowledge for doing that concoction.

But you have the right of what you want. You can use an oil that is known good for hair, or a small amount of conditioner you already have. It is not Nightblooming's equivalent but still good for you

[Safira]

Well than, I would just like to simply add that i do have a job. Making $11.00 an hour liftinng about 1,400 50 pound boxes a day. I do not have extra money because My oldest brother died from diabetes a year ago and i now care for his four children. 1 girl and 3 boys. At 19. All by myself. So shame on you for telling me to get a job. I have sacrificed everything for these children. Given up my hopes and dreams of college for them. But i love them so it does not matter for me. As far as collecting cans. Well i do that too lol. I cannot afford one thing right now. It does not mean i will not buy it in the future. I love what Nightblooming is all about. So please watch what you say. You never know someones situation or what they are going through. I come here to let go and have some time to myself. It seems harder and harder sometimes to come here and enjoy myself.


I´m so sorry :grouphug:

I wish you and children well, and I really hope your dreams about college will come true.

[sami]

I had a read through OP's older posts and am a bit confused. She seems to have lived with another girl's family as recently as January (bully thread). Also there's a thread where she talks about combining lots of shampoo/conditioner that she has bought then nevers uses? Although of course they may just be cheap products.

[DaniVerde]

You never know someones situation or what they are going through. I come here to let go and have some time to myself. It seems harder and harder sometimes to come here and enjoy myself.

Jennescence, you are a beautiful person, with a wonderful heart. Bless you for what you're doing, and "your" children have a wonderful role model to grow up with.

Deborah, you have given me such good feelings for today! :)

[gretchen_hair]

What does this have to do with making a home made version of Panacea?


I had a read through OP's older posts and am a bit confused. She seems to have lived with another girl's family as recently as January (bully thread). Also there's a thread where she talks about combining lots of shampoo/conditioner that she has bought then nevers uses? Although of course they may just be cheap products.

[sami]

Nothing at all. I am not condoning the harsh comments made in this thread. But looking at previous posts, OP doesn't come across as not spending on things she wants/needs. And her blog and other threads seem to imply that she lives with others (as a dependent of her gf), while in this thread she suggests that she is bringing up for children by herself.

Up till now I admired the way you had been defending OP, but please don't turn a noble gesture into something more aggressive. I have no opinion on making a home made panacea and thought it was a reasonable request.

I am simply questioning OP's circumstances. She certainly hasn't been shy about discussing her personal life in other threads.

[gretchen_hair]

Nobody said *this DIY recipe is exactly like Panacea and *just as good* as her version*.....never, no where in this thread did I see that.

Nobody deserves *my money*, be it a small business, just because they ARE a small business, I can take my money where I want and buy what I want and get the product I want. No-one owes anyone their business. No one person is more deserving of someones money, just because they are a small business.

The only poor light in the thread was not shed on Nightblooming, it was negative because people were rude, all assuming and treated the OP and others very shabby because they are making home made recipes.

I personally do not find 2 oz of product decently priced at $13.75 + $6 shipping totaling $18.75. I tend to overuse and use concoctions as a deep treatment. I like to use the same item for hair, face, lips, all over body moisturizer. When i find something that smells good and works good, I really use it a lot on my dry hands. I had a gallon of lip balm mix that is made from Coconut oil, beeswax and some other stuff. I melted it and put it into 8 oz jars. I have used one full 8 oz jar in a week. YES, a week!

I prefer to use a home-made recipe and not worry about it costing me a $20 dollar bill and using it sparingly. I like to enjoy it at will and if I want to use some extra, I don't want to stress the price. What YOU find reasonably priced may not be reasonable for someone else.

It also isn't that anyone is *encouraging* a knock-off per se, but the 2 main ingredients are rather easy to come by and a person can experiment with their own version and use it for more than just hair if they wish. I am in no way saying that Panacea isn't wonderful, I am just saying that for some of us, 2 ounces of product for (right at $20) is not a bargain. I can find something suitable for far less and have lots left over for other body treatment. Sure, it won't look, smell or necessarily work the exact same way, but for ME, it will suffice.

No one is trying to exactly replicate the Panacea, we aren't asking for a recipe, or ratios, or how to make the herbal infusion. We aren't asking where to buy the secret ingredients or how to make it exactly.

Telling someone that they just need to spend the $5.75 on the real thing is highly offensive. The thread was a request for a home version, not a request to be bullied and shamed into supporting any *one forum member* just because they have a small business. I highly doubt that I would ever spend $5.75 on a 1/2 ounce of anything for my hair. Ever. It isn't cost effective for me. I prefer to buy the main ingredients of that product and play with it and find what works for me. Judging from the description of the smell of the real Panacea, I would go through that half ounce in a day or so, I would be greedy and excited and use it all up like crazy! I don't like to have to ration something because it was pricey. And yes, to me it is too pricey, thus the reason I have always considered the product but never purchased due to the cost.

Call me cheap? I call it frugal. I don't feel obligated by anyones comments to go buy the real thing when it does not fit into the category of frugal, to me. I have considered swapping in the past, but others have always beat me to the punch when it comes up on the swap board. Maybe I will get lucky one day and then be the one saying.....*don't try X, just buy the real thing*.....until then, I will just be a cheap ass and make my home-made goodies and be happy that I have those ingredients to mess around with and use as total body luxuries.


OK, so I didn't mean get a job or turn in cans as "you are just being stingy or lazy" I work a job where I am on my feet all day, have a zoo full of rescued animals and a SO to support and live with a debilitating spinal cord injury.

The "point" was that no one said "Hey I understand you can't afford 5.75, try this it may be more economical" I was said this is the same thing and its cheaper and just as good and led the OP to believe it could be cheaper and just as good to "DIY Panacea" and sorry but knowing Nightshade and having done some research with her that's misinformation.

I have in fact saved up cans and put away a few bucks a week to get something that I knew was quality or that I just plain wanted. There is no shame in it, and even if someone doesn't "work" I don't assume they are unemployed. I was a "stay at home cripple" and "dog mommy" as my friends lovingly called me and I definitely had work.

Point? Panacea is quality and Nightshade definitely deserves the money more than some big box store that sells cheap oils. And the OP didn't deserve the misinformation, Panacea does NOT cost 50 dollars shipped, (that was a limited edition 8 ounce jar that people had personally asked for) that is not only untrue but sheds really poor light on Nightblooming.

I know we all have to "do what we gotta do" But I still felt like encouraging a "knockoff" of an already decent priced product (and also I had a 1/2 ounce jar for almost 6 months with waist length hair from Belderan and Nightblooming and several people here also stated the same)

It boils down to 5.75 to give it a whirl, vs cobbling together your own and "hope" it works. Cost wise, it is still cheaper and better for small business to give the Nightshade stuff a go.

And Jenne I was unemployed and raising two kids for 2 years, it SUCKS if you want some of my hair stuff that I tried and didn't car for lemme know :)

KJ

[gretchen_hair]

I don't see how my question was aggressive in any way?:confused:

I simply asked, what did any of the OP's *other* threads have to do with making a home-made version of Panacea?

And again, regardless of the OP's past purchases, or any purchases for that matter, does not have any bearing on wanting to make a home-made version of something.

Also, bringing her personal life (ie: living alone, bringing up children/appearing that she lives with others at one point in her life) has absolutely nothing to do with the desire to make an at home product. :confused:

It makes me wonder WHY you would bring that up if you had NO opinion on making Panacea? It seems very contentious and accusatory. But of course, this is the internet and sometimes we read each other wrong, but I don't understand the need to know about her personal life/ past threads/ past purchases in regards to her desire to make a *budget friendly version* of the Panacea product.

ETA:

Nobody needs to defend themselves on the WHY that they want to make a home-made version of anything. It does not matter if we want to save money, get a better bargain for our money or just simply like to concoct potions, we are free to make the decisions we choose without being harangued as to why we are doing it. We need not have to explain anything to anyone.


What does this have to do with making a home made version of Panacea?


Nothing at all. I am not condoning the harsh comments made in this thread. But looking at previous posts, on things she wants/needs. And her blog and otherOP doesn't come across as not spending threads seem to imply that she lives with others (as a dependent of her gf), while in this thread she suggests that she is bringing up for children by herself.

Up till now I admired the way you had been defending OP, but please don't turn a noble gesture into something more aggressive. I have no opinion on making a home made panacea and thought it was a reasonable request.

I am simply questioning OP's circumstances. She certainly hasn't been shy about discussing her personal life in other threads.

[ktani]

Nobody needs to defend themselves on the WHY that they want to make a home-made version of anything.

This. It has always been a part of these boards since I have been here, that people experiment and try their own versions of products they like or know about from anywhere.

In the past, I have liked certain hair conditioners. However, there was always something that I felt could have been improved, just for me and my scalp or hair. I never found "the" product. And then my scalp became sensitized to a quat (quaternium ammonium compound) that is in most of the conditioners I did prefer.

That is when I started to experiment with herbs and never looked back.

ETA: That is my experience. No one needs to justify their reasons for experimenting or wanting to do so, in my opinion, too.

[sami]

I wasn't questioning original post at all. And what did I write that implied I was questioning why anyone should make their own version of panacea? I'm sure there's plenty of stuff - not just hair products - that people try to emulate, for a variety of reasons.

It was Jennescence's last few posts where she provided an explanation of why she was wanting to try this that I pondered. I actually felt sorry for her when some told her to go earn/save up money. Like others I admired her supposedly taking on a family at such a young age and out of curiosity read through previous posts. And what she has written previously didn't tally with what she is saying now. Which still doesn't justify the rude comments. She didn't need to invent an imaginary family (or so it sounds) for sympathy, she already got that from members defending her.

So please get off your high horse. Seeing as we are assuming things and YOU are doing a lot of assuming, seems to me you are using this thread to pontificate about people's rights to rip off someone else's successful product.

Gosh no wonder I rarely express an opinion here.....

[ktani]

I wasn't questioning original post at all. And what did I write that implied I was questioning why anyone should make their own version of panacea? I'm sure there's plenty of stuff - not just hair products - that people try to emulate, for a variety of reasons.

It was Jennescence's last few posts where she provided an explanation of why she was wanting to try this that I pondered. I actually felt sorry for her when some told her to go earn/save up money. Like others I admired her supposedly taking on a family at such a young age and out of curiosity read through previous posts. And what she has written previously didn't tally with what she is saying now. Which still doesn't justify the rude comments. She didn't need to invent an imaginary family (or so it sounds) for sympathy, she already got that from members defending her.

So please get off your high horse. Seeing as we are assuming things and YOU are doing a lot of assuming, seems to me you are using this thread to pontificate about people's rights to rip off someone else's successful product.

Gosh no wonder I rarely express an opinion here.....

1. My post was not aimed at you.

2. This is totally uncalled for and I will not reply in kind.

[sami]

ktani, my post was addressing gretchen_hair.

[ktani]

ktani, my post was addressing gretchen_hair.

Understood.

It would appear that there are a number of misunderstandings in this thread, that to me are way off topic.

I do think people in general, need to be calm before they post and speculate.

[jel]

Nobody said *this DIY recipe is exactly like Panacea and *just as good* as her version*.....never, no where in this thread did I see that.

Well this was the first suggestion:


You can easily make your own version from this. ETA: The recipe dates back to 2003.

Fox's Original and Innovative Shea Butter Cream

To me this sounds that Panacea is EXACTLY the same as Fox’s Conditioning Crème.

Now, if it was said “Panacea contains a lot more herbal ingredients but Fox’s Conditioning Crème may be similar, so here’s a recipe you can try” that would have been much more accurate and less offensive to many of us here.

[sami]

ktani, I have always found your posts informative and pretty neutral.

You're right, I did take it of topic. I wished I had restrained from commenting. Will go back to my usual lurking :)

[ktani]

To me this sounds that Panacea is EXACTLY the same as Fox’s Conditioning Crème.

Now, if it was said “Panacea contains a lot more herbal ingredients but Fox’s Conditioning Crème may be similar, so here’s a recipe you can try” that would have been much more accurate and less offensive to many of us here.

Not if you read the actual recipe. And I said "your own version".

Fox's recipe leaves the oil and conditioner up to the person.

The 3 active ingredients are however the same, oil, conditioner and shea butter.

To my knowledge, the recipe in and of itself is unique in combining all 3 together to get unique results, which depend on the choices made, and which is borne out in the original thread by results reported there, by members here, which differ with those choices ETA: but are still excellent ETA:6 in most cases - because of the combination of the 3 main ingredients.

ETA:2 In other words, Fox was the first to use those 3 ingredients to create a "product". Differences in exact results vary with choices made for 2 of the 3 and any extras that may be used ETA:5 or are in the conditioner choice, like herbs. - It is the combination of those 3 ingredients though that makes the original recipe unique, in my opinion.

ETA:3 Conditioner waxes or emulsifiers can be used instead of conditioner ETA:4 (and you do need to add a liquid if you do that instead of using actual conditioner, which contains water) - for a homemade version, because they act the same way, emulsifying the oil and shea butter, keeping them mixed.

ETA:7 And proportions count as well and are very important. http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4487

[gretchen_hair]

I am only reading what you are saying with your own words. I am not assuming anything.

To suggest that someone is making up stories to gain *sympathy* is really far out there.

To assume that I am trying to *justify*, someones *right to RIP OFF someone else's successful product* is pretty far put there as well.

If I make a Pseudo Panacea and pop it up on Etsy for sale, then you can use that argument, until then, it's invalid and highly assumptive.

I have a right to concoct anything I wish, inside of my own home, so far as it's within the legal limits of the law. The items I make aren't illegal, so I'm ok with that.

In your first post, you didn't express any opinion. It was an accusational question.

I have never ridden a horse, be it high or low. Although I have sang the song *Horse with no name* many a time, but that does not qualify me as an expert on horse riding, although I believe Neil Young meant that as something symbolic, not an actual sporting event. (riding through the desert on the horse)

As for the *pontificating*, I don't believe myself to be *all that important* :flower: I can't believe that this many people actually give a crap as to what people do in their own homes.




I wasn't questioning original post at all. And what did I write that implied I was questioning why anyone should make their own version of panacea? I'm sure there's plenty of stuff - not just hair products - that people try to emulate, for a variety of reasons.

It was Jennescence's last few posts where she provided an explanation of why she was wanting to try this that I pondered. I actually felt sorry for her when some told her to go earn/save up money. Like others I admired her supposedly taking on a family at such a young age and out of curiosity read through previous posts. And what she has written previously didn't tally with what she is saying now. Which still doesn't justify the rude comments. She didn't need to invent an imaginary family (or so it sounds) for sympathy, she already got that from members defending her.

So please get off your high horse. Seeing as we are assuming things and YOU are doing a lot of assuming, seems to me you are using this thread to pontificate about people's rights to rip off someone else's successful product.

Gosh no wonder I rarely express an opinion here.....

[gretchen_hair]

The key words in ktanis post is.....*YOUR OWN *VERSION*

Nobody has to specify what they MEANT by explaining in great detail that YOUR OWN VERSION and the PANACEA BRAND will NOT BE THE SAME. :confused:


What you read and what you inferred are 2 different things. No one needs to be diligent and specify that Panacea has more herbs and ingredients and that YOUR OWN VERSION....WILL NOT BE THE SAME*

Why does anyone need to add all of that in a post about DIY blends?:confused:

Why does anyone have to add the wording.....THESE TWO ARE SIMILAR BUT NOT THE SAME?

It is unnecessary, I know that my Chocolate Chip cookies will NOT be JUST like *Mrs. Fields*, no one has to tell me that, it does not need to be stated as such, I am pretty quick on the draw and simply understand that my own version will never be up to par with anything commercially made and that is for sale.

There is nothing inaccurate about anything that was said in regards to making YOUR OWN VERSION of X product. How can MAKING YOUR OWN VERSION, be considered OFFENSIVE in any way? I am genuinely perplexed as to how many people are trippin' over someone saying....here's the main ingredients in X, here's the main ingredients in Y, they are similar products, you can make your own version.

If we start requiring people to make wordy statements before their posts, regarding how a home-made product is NOT THE SAME as X name brand product, things are going to get convoluted and overly complicated and it's really unnecessary.

As a matter of fact, the products we make at home are NOT the same as the name brand, we all know that, in some cases the home made brand is FAR SUPERIOR than the name brand.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen hair
Nobody said *this DIY recipe is exactly like Panacea and *just as good* as her version*.....never, no where in this thread did I see that.

Well this was the first suggestion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktani
You can easily make your own version from this. ETA: The recipe dates back to 2003.

Fox's Original and Innovative Shea Butter Cream

To me this sounds that Panacea is EXACTLY the same as Fox’s Conditioning Crème.

Now, if it was said “Panacea contains a lot more herbal ingredients but Fox’s Conditioning Crème may be similar, so here’s a recipe you can try” that would have been much more accurate and less offensive to many of us here.

[gretchen_hair]

I would also like to add:

No one here is trying to convince anyone to NOT purchase the Panacea brand of hair treatment if that is what they wish.

No one is trying to TAKE business away from Nightblooming/Nightshade.

No one is trying to make a product that is similar or a *GPV* version, if you will, and sell it under guise of being *just like the REAL thing*

No one is doubting Nightshade/Nighbloomings skills as a vendor/cook/concoctioness and no one is saying that people should NOT buy the product because you can make it better, cheaper and it's the same if not superior than the real Panacea.

This whole thread has gone to hell in a hand basket because people took the topic as something offensive, when in reality, it was just a simple question as to how to do an at home version of a product.

To my knowledge, the mixture of Shea butter/ coconut oils/ and any other tea, herb, essential oil, conditioner, other oils or butters/ or any other ingredient is not patented. And in the event that it WERE patented, and we happened to use the same exact ingredients, it would not be a violation of the law or any moral code to simply throw these items together in a bowl and stick the end result on our heads (or other body parts) or to give as gifts to friends.

If I have to, I will do a search of other *make it yourself* products on this forum and post a link to them here, just to make a point. But I really don't feel like having to do that, it's a lot of work and everyone knows that we always discuss DIY potions and recipes. It has never been an issue unless someone is trying to replicate someone work (as in hair toys) and sell them on a vendor site such as Etsy.

[teela1978]

I personally can't imagine spending that much on salve for my hair :shrug:

Fox's is fun to play with, and oils are awesome on their own. I'd start there and play a bit.

[jennescence]

Nothing at all. I am not condoning the harsh comments made in this thread. But looking at previous posts, OP doesn't come across as not spending on things she wants/needs. And her blog and other threads seem to imply that she lives with others (as a dependent of her gf), while in this thread she suggests that she is bringing up for children by herself.

Up till now I admired the way you had been defending OP, but please don't turn a noble gesture into something more aggressive. I have no opinion on making a home made panacea and thought it was a reasonable request.

I am simply questioning OP's circumstances. She certainly hasn't been shy about discussing her personal life in other threads.

Alot has changed since I posted in the past. My living situation has changed a lot. Sorry i couldn't inform you personally about the changes in my life. It is very rude to insinuate that i am lying. I am in fact not lying. I had to grow up fast in a very short time.

[jennescence]

I had a read through OP's older posts and am a bit confused. She seems to have lived with another girl's family as recently as January (bully thread). Also there's a thread where she talks about combining lots of shampoo/conditioner that she has bought then nevers uses? Although of course they may just be cheap products.
Yes they are cheap products lol. Products bought at the local SUNDRY store. A lot of them are old and were stacking up so i was getting tired of them. Old as in from a time when things were better. I do live with my girlfriend and her parents, but i pay rent for all of us and i never ask for any money from any of them. So yes i AM doing it all on my own. I wouldn't just make something like that up. I really do not know why i am even replying to you. It really is none of your business. I guess i am writing it so others will not think badly of me. Yesterday was bad enough but what you said adds salt to the wound. I am very tired of feeling like i have to justify myself.

[Deborah]

Jennifer,

Oh honey, please ignore the stupid and mean-spirited statements being made by various ugly people. I've asked the moderators to step in, but they have not done so thus far. I suggest that you stop reading this thread. You don't need or deserve any of this treatment.

Some will never admit, even to themselves, that they have acted in a nasty and wrong way, so they keep writing, trying to justify themselves to themselves. No one else is believing their sputterings. Ignore them.

There be sharks here.

Deborah

[ktani]

I am very tired of feeling like i have to justify myself.

You do not have to justify yourself one tiny little bit. Your personal circumstances are no one's business but your own, to reveal as much of or as little of as you please, when you please, or not.

There are others here besides me, who do not sit in judgment of you because you asked a simple question, that should in my opinion, not have led to any of this.

[jennescence]

Jennifer,

Oh honey, please ignore the stupid and mean-spirited statements being made by various ugly people. I've asked the moderators to step in, but they have not done so thus far. I suggest that you stop reading this thread. You don't need or deserve any of this treatment.

Some will never admit, even to themselves, that they have acted in a nasty and wrong way, so they keep writing, trying to justify themselves to themselves. No one else is believing their sputterings. Ignore them.

There be sharks here.

Deborah
From this moment on i'm done with this whole thread!
Thank you!
You do not have to justify yourself one tiny little bit. Your personal circumstances are no one's business but your own, to reveal as much of or as little of as you please, when you please, or not.

There are others here besides me, who do not sit in judgment of you because you asked a simple question, that should in my opinion, not have led to any of this.
Thank You too for all you have done for me:) In my opinion you are one of the wisest on here:)

[ktani]

From this moment on i'm done with this whole thread!

Thank You too for all you have done for me:) In my opinion you are one of the wisest on here:)

You are very welcome and I am so sorry that you went through this. ETA: And thank you!

Most people here do not go out of their way to make others cry or feel hurt. Aside from rules here, the majority of LHC members are helpful and supportive.

This just escalated.

I want you to remember one thing though if nothing else from this unfortunate experience.

You did absolutely nothing wrong and acted and reacted with grace under pressure.

I salute you!

[ktani]

ktani, I have always found your posts informative and pretty neutral.

You're right, I did take it of topic. I wished I had restrained from commenting. Will go back to my usual lurking :)

Thank you.

I am sure there are a number of members here who regret certain posts, for one reason or another, including me, ETA: and I am speaking generally, not specifically about this thread, or what I have written here (ETA:2 which I stand by). That does not mean that you should not post at all, in my opinion.

Things can get out of hand when emotions run high.

ETA:3

Ktani, I think it was kind of you to offer the OP a possible solution.

Thank you too.