Good Hair, the movie

[FrozenBritannia]

Not sure if this has been posted, but has anyone seen the movie? Or know where I can watch it?

here is the trailor. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=good%20hair%20chris%20rock&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDgQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1m-4qxz08So&ei=1Q5NT_XfBNTdiAL9qsCVDw&usg=AFQjCNFtAwknC8hwM4xgBx7UdIPJ7Yl6ig

It says it came out in 2009, so I guess its pretty old, but that pop can demonstration is really neat!

[AnqeIicDemise]

I broke rule number one at the line "If you see a black woman, run!"

Oh wow.. this is totally not what I expected. I want to see the movie now and I can tell you Chris Rock has tendency of irritating me...but he has some amazingly valid points in this documentary.

[gthlvrmx]

I think i might watch it. Just for fun.

[FrozenBritannia]

I broke rule number one at the line "If you see a black woman, run!"

Oh wow.. this is totally not what I expected. I want to see the movie now and I can tell you Chris Rock has tendency of irritating me...but he has some amazingly valid points in this documentary.

What is rule number one?? :confused:

And I know what you mean, I am not a huge fan of his, except in anamation (shrek and madagascar etc) but this looks really intriguing!

[AnqeIicDemise]

What is rule number one?? :confused:

And I know what you mean, I am not a huge fan of his, except in anamation (shrek and madagascar etc) but this looks really intriguing!

Rule number 1:

Thou shall not spit take and spray liquids all over the keyboard and monitor.


I totally broke it.

[Diamond.Eyes]

This looks very interesting ^_^. We just learned how to do chemical relaxing treatments at my cosmetology school, and it is the most damaging thing I have ever seen done to a head of hair :bigeyes:. The client that the demo was preformed on had the driest hair afterward :(. We also tried it out on our mannequins, and my mannequins' hair is now the worst hair I have ever felt. It is like touching rough velcro...

[Kizuna]

I've seen it and I found it very interesting.

[FrozenBritannia]

I've seen it and I found it very interesting.

tell us more! do you know where we can find it?

[AnqeIicDemise]

I saw the 10 min section on perms. Oh geeze... It gave me the heebies.

[FrozenBritannia]

Rule number 1:

Thou shall not spit take and spray liquids all over the keyboard and monitor.


I totally broke it.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kizuna]

tell us more! do you know where we can find it?
For me the movie was very interesting because I don't know anybody with african american hair (is that the right term?). They talk a lot about weaves and how straight hair is the "ultimate" hairstyle and how and what people use to achieve it. They also follow some crazy hair stylists (that part didn't interest me).

I don't know where to find it cause my partner downloaded it, but I can't imagine it would be too hard to find on for example amazon. :)

[AnqeIicDemise]

I'm currently trying to find out if its on netflix. Unfortunately I'm locked out. -.-

[B-L]

I've seen it.. Most of it anyways.. I don't remember so much about it :hmm: except for the part where indian women sacrificed their hair to the gods, but eventually the hair was stolen from the temples and sold to make hair extensions or something like that..

[AnqeIicDemise]

ALRIGHT! I got it to work. Good news:

Netflix has the dvd.

Bad news, no instant stream.

Darn. And I just got rid of the dvds too. -fume-

[FrozenBritannia]

ALRIGHT! I got it to work. Good news:

Netflix has the dvd.

Bad news, no instant stream.

Darn. And I just got rid of the dvds too. -fume-

I don't have netflix. Amazon.ca has the DVD, but no rentals. i am off to check another spot!

[PrairieRose]

I saw the movie when it was on cable...very funny and interesting!

[Tota]

Funny movie, but also so sad because it addresses the issue of Afro-American community believing that their natural hair is "bad" and not good enough and that it needs to be straigtened by any cost. They also talk about the harsh chemicals that they use to straighten their hair and then they show how they do it on small children. To me it was very said but coated with some good humour.

[Helix]

It fell short imo. When I saw the trailer I thought it had so much potential, but in the end it really lacked any depth. It doesn't even address the origins of the term 'good hair.' He barely interviewed any black women who wear their natural hair, (just one and left her story hanging) so we had a one sided perspective.

There were so many questions that should have been asked but weren't. The can experiment was interesting but I hope the people watching have enough sense to know that women are not putting lye in it's purest form on their heads to relax it.

My biggest problem was that It offered no alternatives to relaxing or wearing weaves. Honestly, I don't know what message his daughters were supposed to take from that movie, "Kids, you'll probably wear weave one day so lets go to India to see where your weaves will come from?" Thumbs down.

If you do watch it just know that this movie is not a documentary and more of a mock-u-mentary. Granted, It had some nuggets of information but I would take it with a grain of salt. He is a comedian afterall, (some folk's like to cite this movie as if he is a Harvard expert on hair or something :laugh:).

[Mannaz]

I saw it, and though I don't know the culture I kind of agree with Helix on the mock-u-mentary thing.

[FrozenBritannia]

I expected it to be such, though I am dissapointed to hear that it doesn't enforce the 'natural hair is beautiful' theme so much as I would have thought, based on the trailor.

I guess for me, if a person is informed, and still chooses to do something, that is fine, but they should not feel they 'have' to.

I still want to watch it. itunes has it, but not to rent. :(

[Tota]

I expected it to be such, though I am dissapointed to hear that it doesn't enforce the 'natural hair is beautiful' theme so much as I would have thought, based on the trailor.

I think it does so just by showing all the crazy things people do and say in this movie ... He kind of mocks at the situation and does not approve it at all. But he is a comedian, so ... For me (a clueless European) it was very educating because I didn't know about this before. Well, I found out about hair extensions about 4 years ago, before that I thought all hair is natural and so on ... Stupid me :o

[Tisiloves]

I streamed it, :couch:

It was quite informative, although I'm still not sure why anyone would want to trade springy curls for *dead* straight. :confused:

Type 4 hair's awesome, it sticks to itself, that's like a hair superpower.:rockerdud

Until my friend got twists I always thought that they got secured using dred wax or something :o
I tried it, twists don't last 4 mins on my hair let alone 4 weeks.

[Ceridwen Iris]

I agree that with Helix in that I really didn't feel like the politics of black women's hair was addressed in any depth. I enjoyed watching it and felt I did learn a great deal as I'm Australia, so I really had no idea that every black women I've ever seen is probably wearing hair.

I had actually read the blog of a black feminist writer that I enjoyed and she was criticising Angelina Jolie for not 'doing' her daughter Zahra's hair and I really couldn't understand how a feminist could be advocating such concern for her appearance but then when I watched a sequence in Good Hair where a number of high school girls are discussing their hair and I was stunned that they suggested the one girl in their group who has natural hair (what I would describe as a mini afro) would be judged as someone who doesn't take care of themselves or have pride in themselves (and she looked like neither to me). I think, as strange as it sounds, having your hair done to such extremes can be seen as a expression of black female pride.

[Kinkycurlygurl]

There are bits and pieces of the movie on Youtube, but the whole thing is available from Netflix on DVD.

[Curly Hermione]

I've seen it, it's funny but also thought provoking and interesting. :)

[heidi w.]

I've long wanted to see this movie. I bet it's on Netflix!!

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Black women go through all kinds of stuff with their hair to fit in. It's rather sad to me that what they were born with is somehow viewed as unacceptable. That's really sad.

I've long been interested in Black hair care, and have a terrible time finding really quality information on the topic.

I think the whole thing is a sad comment on us as women.

heidi w.

[CandyFluff]

Thandie Newton showcases her stunning natural curls... after ditching chemical relaxers for the sake of her daughters
By Nadia Mendoza

Most A-list mothers are busy churning out carbon copies of mini-mes to become the next generation of the Hollywood elite (ahem, Katie Holmes).

But Thandie Newton is determined to set her daughters an example.

The Run Fatboy Run actress revealed she decided to stop straightening her hair in a bid to discourage Ripley and Nico from feeling insecure about their natural curls.

Yesterday, the mother-of-two attended a fundraising gala at the Sadler's Wells Theatre in Clerkenwell, London, looking ravishing with a headful of shiny curls

As her voluminous hair spilled over her shoulders, Thandie looked effortlessly younger than her years posing with Gillian Anderson in a 'Girl' T-shirt.

Earlier this month, Thandie told longtime friend and make-up artist Kay Montano: 'I didn’t want my daughters to judge their beautiful curls.'

The British star, 39, said she stopped using chemical relaxers typically used by black women to straighten their locks after seeing comic Chris Rock's documentary film Good Hair.

The movie enlightened her to the fact that the products contain enough of the corrosive substance Lye - more commonly known as caustic soda - to dissolve a Coke can.

She added: 'The stigma with some black women seems to be that "nappy hair" (natural afro hair) is almost as bad as loo roll trailing from your shoe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2107671/Thandie-Newton-showcases-striking-natural-curls-refuses-straighten-hair-set-daughters-good-example.html

I think Thandie Newton looks great with either straight or curly hair.

[FrozenBritannia]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2107671/Thandie-Newton-showcases-striking-natural-curls-refuses-straighten-hair-set-daughters-good-example.html

I think Thandie Newton looks great with either straight or curly hair.

Actually i really LOVE her hair curly! And her kids are so cute too. She was always very pretty, but she does look younger with her hair curly. :)

[QMacrocarpa]

They also follow some crazy hair stylists (that part didn't interest me).
That was the part that interested me least too. Cutting hair while hanging upside down! On a bed! In a tank of water! With a marching band! Meh. :p

I checked the DVD out from the public library. :D

[midsummernight]

I've seen it.. Most of it anyways.. I don't remember so much about it :hmm: except for the part where indian women sacrificed their hair to the gods, but eventually the hair was stolen from the temples and sold to make hair extensions or something like that..

From what I know the hair isn't stolen from the temples. The temples sell the hair to raise money for its upkeep and maintance. But thefts do happen as shown in the movie, where this man was saying how someone cut this woman's hair without her permission.

But yeah its sad that african american women feel like they need to do so much to their hair in order for it to be considered good hair.

[<3OnHerSleeve]

I want to see this movie now. It's sad though that a lot of women of the African heritage don't feel that they can embrace their natural hair. I love microbraids and wish my hair was thick enough to do cornrows, but when it comes to relaxing it reminds me of that book Curly Like Me by a mixed ethnicity woman who learned how to treat her tight curly hair and eventually grew her glorious african-american curls to her waist (past classic when stretched). It's a book I really recommend to read if you haven't, it's rather inspiring.

[Nevvie]

I was going to post a link for those who want to see it, but I suspect there's a rule involving direct linking and possible copyright infringement. There is an easy way for you to find it yourself though. Type 'Good Hair' in on google, click 'videos' on the side and 'Long (20+ min.)' under duration. The forth one down has the full movie (on Tudou). The site is Chinese but the video is in English.

[FrozenBritannia]

I was going to post a link for those who want to see it, but I suspect there's a rule involving direct linking and possible copyright infringement. There is an easy way for you to find it yourself though. Type 'Good Hair' in on google, click 'videos' on the side and 'Long (20+ min.)' under duration. The forth one down has the full movie (on Tudou). The site is Chinese but the video is in English.

Awesome, thank you, I will watch it tomorrow!!

[PolythenePam]

I hate that movie with a passion. Warning: here comes my rant-and it's filled with venom. To start, Chris Rock says he got the impetus for doing the film because his daughter asked him how come she didn't have "good hair"? Where did a child in this day and age pick up that term? It's pretty old school. Someone in her circle ( I'm going to guess an adult) is spouting that non-sense.

I've met Chris and his wife. His wife wears one of the worst weaves I have ever seen. It's sits on her head like a hat. And you can clearly see that she is not taking care of her hair underneath it. He never mentions his wife or her hair at all during the movie. But that is what HE is familiar with when it comes to black women and their hair and he truly didn't look beyond that.

A mock-u-mentary is correct. I feel he set out to make black women the butt of a joke. Sure, there a black women who relax their hair, or wear weaves-even some outlandish ones you see portrayed in the hair shows. But there are just as many black women that have natural, healthy, gorgeous, heads of hair. You can find quite a few on this board right here. He doesn't show this AT ALL. You can't tell me that he didn't find ANY of therese women in his research-with all of his resources( $$$) and with the internet being available? Especially if he's showing the evils of relaxers and weaves and an unhealthy mindset regarding ones hair--you wouldn't show the flip side? An alternative? A solution? No. It was a choice not to do so.

It just perpetuates a stereotype of black women and their hair. If you know nothing about black women and their hair you are going to walk away from this movie with a lot of misconceptions. And it pisses me off. Because it affects me.

I have natural 3c waist length hair. There are Caucasain women that I work with that ask me EVERY TIME they see me "if that's all my hair"? EVERY. TIME. It was all my hair yesterday, it's all my hair today and it will be all my hair tomorrow. Then I get the "wow-that's amazing-because I know how hard it is to grow black hair." No, no it's not. Not if you know how to take care of your hair.

Even if the proof is right there in front of them some people would prefer to believe the weave wearing stereotype. I've worked with a guy for over 4 years. Including me he has worked with a total of 6 black women pretty much on a daily basis. This is including his boss. We six, all have across the board beautiful natural hair of varying lengths and textures. A client came in with an assistant in tow. She was a black woman in her early 50's sporting a weave. When they left he turned to me and loudly asked: 'So what's up with black women and their hair? I mean what's wrong with it? Why do they wear wear weaves? I wanted to punch him in his throat. He's surrounded by black women with magazine worthy hair for years and a stranger comes in for 15 minutes and now there's something wrong with black women's hair. They only women at our job who are wearing fake hair are two Caucasian ones. I wanted to tell him to go ask them what's "wrong" with their hair.

I just have one favor to ask-if you watch the movie-please, please-don't believe the hype.

[braylin27cobain]

I've seen this movie a couple of times and thought that it was interesting and funny. I really liked it. It played on HBO a lot the past couple of months and still comes in every now and again.

[Maktub]

I hate that movie with a passion. Warning: here comes my rant-and it's filled with venom. To start, Chris Rock says he got the impetus for doing the film because his daughter asked him how come she didn't have "good hair"? Where did a child in this day and age pick up that term? I's pretty old school. Someone in her circle ( I'm going to guess an adult) is spouting that non-sense.

I've met Chris and his wife. His wife wears one of the worst weaves I have ever seen. It's sits on her head like a hat. And you can clearly see that she is not taking care of her hair underneath it. He never mentions his wife or her hair at all during the movie. But that is what HE is familiar with when it comes to black women and their hair and he truly didn't look beyond that.

A mock-u-mentary is correct. I feel he set out to make black women the butt of a joke. Sure, there a black women who relax their hair, or wear weaves-even some outlandish ones you see portrayed in the hair shows. But there are just as many black women that have natural, healthy, gorgeous, heads of hair. You can find quite a few on this board right here. He doesn't show this AT ALL. You can't tell me that he didn't find ANY of therese women in his research-with all of his resources( $$$) and with the internet being available? Especially if he's showing the evils of relaxers and weaves and an unhealthy mindset regarding ones hair--you wouldn't show the flip side? An alternative? A solution? No. It was a choice not to do so.

It just perpetuates a stereotype of black women and their hair. If you know nothing about black women and their hair you are going to walk away from this movie with a lot of misconceptions. And it pisses me off. Because it affects me.

I have natural 3c waist length hair. There are Caucasain women that I work with that ask me EVERY TIME they see me "if that's all my hair"? EVERY. TIME. It was all my hair yesterday, it's all my hair today and it will be all my hair tomorrow. Then I get the "wow-that's amazing-because I know how hard it is to grow black hair." No, no it's not. Not if you know how to take care of your hair.

Even if the proof is right there in front of them some people would prefer to believe the weave wearing stereotype. I've worked with a guy for over 4 years. Including me he has worked with a total of 6 black women pretty much on a daily basis. This is including his boss. We six, all have across the board beautiful natural hair of varying lengths and textures. A client came in with an assistant in tow. She was a black woman in her early 50's sporting a weave. When they left he turned to me and loudly asked: 'So what's up with black women and their hair? I mean what's wrong with it? Why do they wear wear weaves? I wanted to punch him in his throat. He's surrounded by black women with magazine worthy hair for years and a stranger comes in for 15 minutes and now there's something wrong with black women's hair. They only women at our job who are wearing fake hair are two Caucasian ones. I wanted to tell him to go ask them what's "wrong" with their hair.

I just have one favor to ask-if you watch the movie-please, please-don't believe the hype.

I've seen it and I pretty much agree with your comment.

[HappyHair87]

I honestly HATE that he came out with this movie....i am not interested in seeing it....i have heard and read so many reviews on this movie...and now to have non-Black ppl thinking they KNOW all about Black women's hair when all he did was made fun of us!

I never wear weave, I'm proud to be natural..and even though yes, my hair was relaxed from ages 5-23...my hair grew pretty long:agree: and the Black community right now is rapidly embracing natural hair and lots of us Black women are learning how to properly care for our hair. I don't have time to watch another movie that makes a mockery of Black women...i just don't.

Honestly the way i see it....Black curly hair is the same as any other race's curly hair...we just have smaller curls...that's all. And our "frizz" equals an Afro.

ETA: If you guys really do research on African slavery...you'll better understand where the term "good hair" came from and why there's so much hatred of African hair. It was only what...in the 80s where Black women were allowed to wear their natural hair on tv as news anchors. We have come so far as a people especially here in the US...i feel that maybe Chris was trying to have good intentions..but now i just have a lot of non-Black ppl asking me if i saw Good Hair. It's annoying.

It is NOT hard to grow our hair!

I'm sorry y'all but...it does eat me up inside. I'm tired of us as a race being made to be a spectacle. If you want to learn how to take care of Black hair and what we do to our hair....its pretty much okay to ask us. I certainly don't mind. AND i'm not OCD about ppl touching my hair...as long as i know you or as long as you ask.

[SoulOfTheSea]

This was such an interesting movie.

[chou]

I hate that movie with a passion. Warning: here comes my rant-and it's filled with venom. To start, Chris Rock says he got the impetus for doing the film because his daughter asked him how come she didn't have "good hair"? Where did a child in this day and age pick up that term? I's pretty old school. Someone in her circle ( I'm going to guess an adult) is spouting that non-sense.

I've met Chris and his wife. His wife wears one of the worst weaves I have ever seen. It's sits on her head like a hat. And you can clearly see that she is not taking care of her hair underneath it. He never mentions his wife or her hair at all during the movie. But that is what HE is familiar with when it comes to black women and their hair and he truly didn't look beyond that.

A mock-u-mentary is correct. I feel he set out to make black women the butt of a joke. Sure, there a black women who relax their hair, or wear weaves-even some outlandish ones you see portrayed in the hair shows. But there are just as many black women that have natural, healthy, gorgeous, heads of hair. You can find quite a few on this board right here. He doesn't show this AT ALL. You can't tell me that he didn't find ANY of therese women in his research-with all of his resources( $$$) and with the internet being available? Especially if he's showing the evils of relaxers and weaves and an unhealthy mindset regarding ones hair--you wouldn't show the flip side? An alternative? A solution? No. It was a choice not to do so.

It just perpetuates a stereotype of black women and their hair. If you know nothing about black women and their hair you are going to walk away from this movie with a lot of misconceptions. And it pisses me off. Because it affects me.

I have natural 3c waist length hair. There are Caucasain women that I work with that ask me EVERY TIME they see me "if that's all my hair"? EVERY. TIME. It was all my hair yesterday, it's all my hair today and it will be all my hair tomorrow. Then I get the "wow-that's amazing-because I know how hard it is to grow black hair." No, no it's not. Not if you know how to take care of your hair.

Even if the proof is right there in front of them some people would prefer to believe the weave wearing stereotype. I've worked with a guy for over 4 years. Including me he has worked with a total of 6 black women pretty much on a daily basis. This is including his boss. We six, all have across the board beautiful natural hair of varying lengths and textures. A client came in with an assistant in tow. She was a black woman in her early 50's sporting a weave. When they left he turned to me and loudly asked: 'So what's up with black women and their hair? I mean what's wrong with it? Why do they wear wear weaves? I wanted to punch him in his throat. He's surrounded by black women with magazine worthy hair for years and a stranger comes in for 15 minutes and now there's something wrong with black women's hair. They only women at our job who are wearing fake hair are two Caucasian ones. I wanted to tell him to go ask them what's "wrong" with their hair.

I just have one favor to ask-if you watch the movie-please, please-don't believe the hype.

I really enjoyed reading your eloquent response and I agree with you completely about the film.

[Sillage]

But there are just as many black women that have natural, healthy, gorgeous, heads of hair. You can find quite a few on this board right here. He doesn't show this AT ALL. You can't tell me that he didn't find ANY of therese women in his research-with all of his resources( $$$) and with the internet being available? Especially if he's showing the evils of relaxers and weaves and an unhealthy mindset regarding ones hair--you wouldn't show the flip side? An alternative? A solution? No. It was a choice not to do so.


This is what really disappointed me about the film. It could have been a great opportunity to educate people but it fell way way short. The lack of natural haired women was very strange to me. I was very interested in hearing their stories and how they overcame the mainstream mindset that good hair is straight hair. What was their journey like?

I am very sorry you have encountered so much racism and insensitivity. It always amazes me when I hear these stories... how can people be so awful, careless, clueless and yes, RACIST.

[Maktub]

I honestly HATE that he came out with this movie....i am not interested in seeing it....i have heard and read so many reviews on this movie...and now to have non-Black ppl thinking they KNOW all about Black women's hair when all he did was made fun of us!

I never wear weave, I'm proud to be natural..and even though yes, my hair was relaxed from ages 5-23...my hair grew pretty long:agree: and the Black community right now is rapidly embracing natural hair and lots of us Black women are learning how to properly care for our hair. I don't have time to watch another movie that makes a mockery of Black women...i just don't.

Honestly the way i see it....Black curly hair is the same as any other race's curly hair...we just have smaller curls...that's all. And our "frizz" equals an Afro.

I agree with you too. I think it's sad, because I do see a potential to make a real intelligent documentary, show the historical, colonial and commercial interests, and the new trend towards going natural and the empowering feeling for many people that goes with it, without mocking anyone etc. But he completely missed that and made a more "sensational" film instead, the kind that "sells" ...

[HappyHair87]

I agree with you too. I think it's sad, because I do see a potential to make a real intelligent documentary, show the historical, colonial and commercial interests, and the new trend towards going natural, without mocking anyone etc. But he completely missed that and made a more "sensational" film instead, the kind that "sells" ...

It would be nice if he came out with a sequel or something and did a real documentary about different Black women making the decision to go natural. There really is a lot more to it for us than just simply chopping off relaxed hair...well MOST of us. For a lot of us...it was like chopping off a past life and gaining freedom (at least that's how it was for me)....and it would be awesome to hear stories about WHY Black women are afraid to go natural....there's a lot of Black women afraid to go natural because they are worried about the reactions from family, co-workers, SO's, DH and so forth. My parents thought i had lost my natural-born mind when i chopped of my WL relaxed hair!:laugh:

To hear REAL stories would be nice.

[Maktub]

It would be nice if he came out with a sequel or something and did a real documentary about different Black women making the decision to go natural. There really is a lot more to it for us than just simply chopping off relaxed hair...well MOST of us. For a lot of us...it was like chopping off a past life and gaining freedom (at least that's how it was for me)....and it would be awesome to hear stories about WHY Black women are afraid to go natural....there's a lot of Black women afraid to go natural because they are worried about the reactions from family, co-workers, SO's, DH and so forth. My parents thought i had lost my natural-born mind when i chopped of my WL relaxed hair!:laugh:

To hear REAL stories would be nice.

I'd love to see that one ! Yes !

[HappyHair87]

Man....i see a lot of you ladies saying you don't get why Black women feel they NEED to relax their hair..

For CENTURIES since we arrived in America...we were made to feel like we are ugly...and our hair was just "bad" or "nappy". True...slavery ended in 1864....but think about how those same ideologies and ways of thinking trickled down through generations....just bc slavery ended...didn't stop the effect it had on us as a race. I have had ppl try to make me feel bad because of my Afro when i wear it out....i have been told i'm having a bad hair day...when i'm wearing a PERFECT chunky twist-out...fluffed to the MAXIMUM!! People JUMP when they see my hair blown out...it's as if ppl are offended by it.

Slaves would straighten their hair to look more like white ppl to receive better treatment from them...and that mentality trickled down to this day. But now...Black women are changing this mentality by going natural. A lot of Black women have always been natural, and some are natural simply bc they are allergic to relaxers.



I have been told by my mother that i wouldn't get a job with my natural hair....i have TWO jobs right now.


It's sad all the way around...but even though a lot of ppl would like to say it's not true....the African Slave Trade had a HUGE negative affect on our race, community. But you would have to be Black to fully "get" it. Just like i don't know what it's like to be White....i only have an idea.

[Helix]

@PolythenePam: If there was a thank button I would've hit it 100 times.

[HappyHair87]

@PolythenePam: If there was a thank button I would've hit it 100 times.

Ditto!:agree:

[Tomoyo]

The movie seemed half a big, long promotion for the Bonner Bros. hair show and half "Good Lord look at how ridiculous black women are when it comes to hair! Weaves on layaway! Chemical burns! Bald-headed Indian women! Oh my!"

It did little to delve into the history of black hairstyling or to address the causes for the prejudices against natural hair and why some still exist today. There is a trailer on YouTube for "My Nappy Roots" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fZaDf15O-8), which looks a lot more interesting. Wish I could find it somewhere as it wasn't as well advertised or widely released as Good Hair.

[lacefrost]

True...slavery ended in 1864..

I know this is kind of a hijack but. . .slavery didn't actually end til 1942, the first time a white person was prosecuted for killing a black person. In the years between 1864 and 1942, slavery still flourished but it was much worse than in the years before 1864. If you want to know more look up peonage, chain gangs, coal mines and the practice of selling prisoners to companies for labor.

And when you think about how slavery didn't actually become illegal til the 30s and 40s, it makes more sense how having naturally curly hair is such a big deal today.

[AnqeIicDemise]

It wasn't the best documentary in the world, but it definitely got me thinking...

[FrozenBritannia]

I still havn't seen it, the. Chinese link must run on flash, the movie won't show up.

Interesting discussion in here though. I promise not to take the movie too seriously. :)
The stuff about slavery as the background for not being proud of their natural hair may have some basis, Idon't know, I live in a part of canada that has more asians and east indians so my education in that aspect (living education) is pretty woeful. There is a group in town that sponsers immigrants from Africa, but having not had the cultural experience of slavery, their opinions would be different, Ithink? Truthfully, I can't tell if their hair is natural or not, I think most of it is, I would never ask though, wouldn't that be a weird welcome to the country? :)

[Foxy_Booker]

I saw it online a while back and it was very good and interesting! I found it online just by searching around for movie websites and such.

[Kinkycurlygurl]

It would be nice if he came out with a sequel or something and did a real documentary about different Black women making the decision to go natural. There really is a lot more to it for us than just simply chopping off relaxed hair...well MOST of us. For a lot of us...it was like chopping off a past life and gaining freedom (at least that's how it was for me)....and it would be awesome to hear stories about WHY Black women are afraid to go natural....there's a lot of Black women afraid to go natural because they are worried about the reactions from family, co-workers, SO's, DH and so forth. My parents thought i had lost my natural-born mind when i chopped of my WL relaxed hair!:laugh:

To hear REAL stories would be nice.

I see your point, but Good Hair was about the pervasive notion of what "good hair" is for many African-Americans. I've worn my hair natural for nearly 20 years and I still get negative commentary about natural hair from other black women. Although, now that there's more interest in natural hair, the commentary has shifted to presume that I can be natural because I have "good hair." It's funny too that many of them don't use the phrase "good hair" instead they say "you have a better grade of hair."

[HappyHair87]

I know this is kind of a hijack but. . .slavery didn't actually end til 1942, the first time a white person was prosecuted for killing a black person. In the years between 1864 and 1942, slavery still flourished but it was much worse than in the years before 1864. If you want to know more look up peonage, chain gangs, coal mines and the practice of selling prisoners to companies for labor.

And when you think about how slavery didn't actually become illegal til the 30s and 40s, it makes more sense how having naturally curly hair is such a big deal today.

Why can't we have "thanks" or "like" buttons?! I didn't even know that! And i went to predominantly Black middle/high schools....we were just taught it ended in 1864 and then our teacher forced us to watch Roots(she was White). Thanks for the enlightenment Sis!

To FrozenBritannia...it wouldn't be the exact same experience for immigrants from Africa...they may have experienced bad situations in Africa...but they came here by choice and not force. They would soon learn though...what it's really like to be Black in America. It's COMPLETELY different to be Black in the US from what i hear of other countries...some don't understand why we're "always complaining" or "taking things too seriously"...there's tons of stereotypes about us, there's some statistics that i don't fully believe, there's still employers out there who will not hire you BECAUSE you are Black, the KKK is still around....we're still up against a lot...and its so messed up to the point that...now when you make something of yourself as a Black person...your fellow ppl look down on you and then all of a sudden you're trying to be "White"...and then you go to work and your co-workers and bosses wanna make Black jokes and see how far they can go with you...while you try to hold yourself together because you don't wanna come off as a stereotypical Black person and go off on them like they deserve to be.

There's a lot to it....it's one of the biggest wounds of the USA that has not healed. So Africans will experience some of these issues....but it would be different bc it hasn't been engraved into them all of the things that have been engraved into Black Americans. I don't know exactly how it is in other countries....but from what i read...being Black anywhere...there's a struggle. And that sucks...because we're beautiful people too!

I hope i'm not coming across as rude...but i just want everyone on here to know...don't buy into the sensationalism when it comes to Black people...a great vast majority of us are really good people. But it's almost like we're always subconsciously on guard about things bc...we're still rebuilding our culture...STILL! And being Black women...we have to rebuild even more. So that's why i'm not interested in the movie bc i just hate that he made it like "Look at what these CRAZY Black women do just to get some good hair!" it really hit a nerve for me.

[FrozenBritannia]

Why can't we have "thanks" or "like" buttons?! I didn't even know that! And i went to predominantly Black middle/high schools....we were just taught it ended in 1864 and then our teacher forced us to watch Roots(she was White). Thanks for the enlightenment Sis!

To FrozenBritannia...it wouldn't be the exact same experience for immigrants from Africa...they may have experienced bad situations in Africa...but they came here by choice and not force. They would soon learn though...what it's really like to be Black in America. It's COMPLETELY different to be Black in the US from what i hear of other countries...some don't understand why we're "always complaining" or "taking things too seriously"...there's tons of stereotypes about us, there's some statistics that i don't fully believe, there's still employers out there who will not hire you BECAUSE you are Black, the KKK is still around....we're still up against a lot...and its so messed up to the point that...now when you make something of yourself as a Black person...your fellow ppl look down on you and then all of a sudden you're trying to be "White"...and then you go to work and your co-workers and bosses wanna make Black jokes and see how far they can go with you...while you try to hold yourself together because you don't wanna come off as a stereotypical Black person and go off on them like they deserve to be.

There's a lot to it....it's one of the biggest wounds of the USA that has not healed. So Africans will experience some of these issues....but it would be different bc it hasn't been engraved into them all of the things that have been engraved into Black Americans. I don't know exactly how it is in other countries....but from what i read...being Black anywhere...there's a struggle. And that sucks...because we're beautiful people too!

I hope i'm not coming across as rude...but i just want everyone on here to know...don't buy into the sensationalism when it comes to Black people...a great vast majority of us are really good people. But it's almost like we're always subconsciously on guard about things bc...we're still rebuilding our culture...STILL! And being Black women...we have to rebuild even more. So that's why i'm not interested in the movie bc i just hate that he made it like "Look at what these CRAZY Black women do just to get some good hair!" it really hit a nerve for me.


I agree, most of the africans that I have seen here are extremely attractive, there is one man in particular who I see out walking regularly, and he is very very dark, and tall and he just looks like a god, walking through the snow.

I am not sure what difference there is between being black in Canada and being black in America, I know we were the land of freedom at the end of the railway, but I don't know how that pertains to today, but I definately think the new immigrants would have a different mindset. They do a lot of cultural nights here, with tribal dance performances and dining experiences etc, to keep their culture alive and to help make the really new ones more comfortable and introduce them to other members of the community from the same place, and I am not sure how common that is in the states?

There are irish nights and scottish nights and do's at the temples etc as well, and lots of pow wows, so maybe that is something that is more just a regular canadian thing? There are even neufie nights, lol!

[HappyHair87]

I agree, most of the africans that I have seen here are extremely attractive, there is one man in particular who I see out walking regularly, and he is very very dark, and tall and he just looks like a god, walking through the snow.

I am not sure what difference there is between being black in Canada and being black in America, I know we were the land of freedom at the end of the railway, but I don't know how that pertains to today, but I definately think the new immigrants would have a different mindset. They do a lot of cultural nights here, with tribal dance performances and dining experiences etc, to keep their culture alive and to help make the really new ones more comfortable and introduce them to other members of the community from the same place, and I am not sure how common that is in the states?

I always wondered what it's like to be Black in Canada too. I have never been up there.

There's a lot of division even in the Black community itself (which is what i mean about us rebuilding our culture) You have Jamaicans, Nigerians, Haitians...ALL originally from Africa....but say like...even though i LOVE reggae music and i have distant blood relatives from Jamaica....there's this divide. When i was in high school there would be fights between the Jamaicans vs. the Haitians (I'm from Florida). But i MUST say...we have a ball when we try to all come together and accept one another as being from Africa.

Cultural nites for Black American would be like........our Hip Hop or R&B nites..things that other races emulate already. Jazz, Blues...that kinda thing....Sunday dinner....something like that. It's funny this thread pops up at the end of Black History Month:laugh:

[FrozenBritannia]

I always wondered what it's like to be Black in Canada too. I have never been up there.

There's a lot of division even in the Black community itself (which is what i mean about us rebuilding our culture) You have Jamaicans, Nigerians, Haitians...ALL originally from Africa....but say like...even though i LOVE reggae music and i have distant blood relatives from Jamaica....there's this divide. When i was in high school there would be fights between the Jamaicans vs. the Haitians (I'm from Florida). But i MUST say...we have a ball when we try to all come together and accept one another as being from Africa.

Cultural nites for Black American would be like........our Hip Hop or R&B nites..things that other races emulate already. Jazz, Blues...that kinda thing....Sunday dinner....something like that. It's funny this thread pops up at the end of Black History Month:laugh:

Yes, that is what I meant, each one has their own night, I think the last one was Mozambique (does that sound right?), but since there isn't a huge number of them (I think most move on to the bigger cities when they get their citizenship etc) they all go to all of them, I have been to one of the performances and it was a blast for everyone, it was great.

I think it would be very hard to try to set something like that up, in America, especially when you consider and awful lot of the black families will have been 'american' for longer than a century, maybe double that, or triple. Certainly longer than a lot of the white population, I know none of my ancestors were on Canadian soil prior to 1917. It must be very confusing?

ETA: I really hope I am not offending anybody? I genuinely have no idea what is politically correct or not, its probably different here anyways, I know 'Native Americans' is proper in the US, here in Canada they are 'First Nations' I expect there is something similarly different in terminology here, but I have no idea whats what, and am just genuinely curious and interested in this discussion, so if I have made a faux-paux do let me know so I don't do it again!

[Maktub]

I have many black friends, most being first or second generation immigrants, and I can tell you that being in Canada (even in the most inclusive and diversity friendly parts) doesn't solve it all and many of them are active in trying to change things.

There's a lot of racism, racial profiling from police officers, as well as some disturbing erotism and exotism associated with being black, by the white population. They still have a hard time to be considered by the rest of the population, sometimes inconsciously, as full right citizens of the same value, and are seen as "being black", as a predominant caracteristic, without much thought to the incredible variety of origins and personnalities, etc. they have (including being 100 &#37; canadian born like any other canadian)... They are still very few in politics and power/influence related jobs, as other minorities like first nations.

I've heard many say that it's ugly in Canada, but it's infinitely worst in France and many parts of Europe, which is also my impression.

Having worked with many Subsaharian Africans, I also think the influence of colonialism and NEOcolonialism is still, sadly, incredibly pervasive in Africa, and that also gets translated on body image (among other things), for example with skin bleaching which seems to be all over the place, at least where I went to abroad.

As long as Africa is exploited, again and again, people and land, by the "North" to give "the North" the kind of ressources, comsumption rate and infrastructures we have today, colonialism isn't over - nor is, I'd say, slavery. Maybe slaves aren't legal in America, but no matter how we name it, de facto, American compagnies (among others) and the whole world economy still relies on a dynamic of crude and careless exploitation of other people (which might only be farther away and out of sight) - often until they die from the exploitation itself. Those are compagnies most people buy from all the time, the most mainstream and banal-looking multinationals ...

The power shift towards being black, proud, and wearing natural hair is such a empowering movement and symbol for many people... I think it's fantastic and I hope it's a step into freedom and dignity from oppression.

[lacefrost]

Why can't we have "thanks" or "like" buttons?! I didn't even know that! And i went to predominantly Black middle/high schools....we were just taught it ended in 1864 and then our teacher forced us to watch Roots(she was White). Thanks for the enlightenment Sis!

snip

So that's why i'm not interested in the movie bc i just hate that he made it like "Look at what these CRAZY Black women do just to get some good hair!" it really hit a nerve for me.

Yep, no one wants to talk about it because it's an absolutely disgusting period in American history. It's messed up because enslaved people were actually treated BETTER when they were enslaved, than in the years afterwards when they gained their freedom. Black people were seen as neat, obedient, kind, respectful and worth taking care of. Afterwards (because of all the false imprisonments) they were seen as violent, treacherous, stupid, and criminal, a stereotype that persists today.

Secondly, that's exactly why I didn't want to see the movie. I got the same vibe. And I think it also creates this idea that "black hair is harder to take care of." And #1 there's no such thing as "black" hair unless we're talking about color. #2 supercurly hair isn't hard to take care of (I actually find straight hair more challenging.)


snip

There's a lot of racism, racial profiling from police officers, as well as some disturbing erotism and exotism associated with being black, by the white population. They still have a hard time to be considered by the rest of the population, sometimes inconsciously, as full right citizens of the same value, and are seen as "being black", as a predominant caracteristic, without much thought to the incredible variety of origins and personnalities, etc. they have (including being 100 % canadian born like any other canadian)... They are still very few in politics and power/influence related jobs, as other minorities like first nations.

I think racism is probably an issue everywhere for all peoples, some more than others. As far as the exoticism and eroticism. . .yes! I have have never been hit on by a white guy in my age group (with the exception of my ex who's Australian) but have had a lot of longing looks from them. But the moment white men hit 30 + and have a career, they seem to want to hit on me. Not all white men by any means, but an alarming amount. And they like everything about me that makes me black. They love my hair curly, they want me to wear an afro, they like my skin color and the shape of my butt. And the skeevier ones will say things I won't even mention.

It almost feels as if white guys are too intimidated to hit on me because I'm black until they become much older and successful. And it's sad because I would go out with quite a lot of them if asked. And the guys I do end up going out with, I have to say pretty plainly, "I like you, we should go out sometime. And by sometime I mean tonight," a million times. They never believe me the first few times.


Having worked with many Subsaharian Africans, I also think the influence of colonialism and NEOcolonialism is still, sadly, incredibly pervasive in Africa, and that also gets translated on body image (among other things), for example with skin bleaching which seems to be all over the place, at least where I went to abroad.

As long as Africa is exploited, again and again, people and land, by the "North" to give "the North" the kind of ressources, comsumption rate and infrastructures we have today, colonialism isn't over - nor is, I'd say, slavery. Maybe slaves aren't legal in America, but no matter how we name it, de facto, American compagnies (among others) and the whole world economy still relies on a dynamic of crude and careless exploitation of other people (which might only be farther away and out of sight) - often until they die from the exploitation itself. Those are compagnies most people buy from all the time, the most mainstream and banal-looking multinationals ...
snip.

This is also true. Unfortunately, the quickest way for a country to get rich is through slave labor. That's how America got rich and that's how America and other countries are still trying to get rich.

[Mesmerise]

I agree that with Helix in that I really didn't feel like the politics of black women's hair was addressed in any depth. I enjoyed watching it and felt I did learn a great deal as I'm Australia, so I really had no idea that every black women I've ever seen is probably wearing hair.

I had actually read the blog of a black feminist writer that I enjoyed and she was criticising Angelina Jolie for not 'doing' her daughter Zahra's hair and I really couldn't understand how a feminist could be advocating such concern for her appearance but then when I watched a sequence in Good Hair where a number of high school girls are discussing their hair and I was stunned that they suggested the one girl in their group who has natural hair (what I would describe as a mini afro) would be judged as someone who doesn't take care of themselves or have pride in themselves (and she looked like neither to me). I think, as strange as it sounds, having your hair done to such extremes can be seen as a expression of black female pride.

This is interesting, because I would have thought it would be the opposite. You know... like being "proud" would be revelling in your true hair, instead of changing it to suit a "white" ideal?

I think it's sad that so many African Americans (and not just Americans... but blacks in other parts of the world too... as I see a lot of African immigrants here who obviously have weaves) feel the need to change their natural hair texture, as if straight hair is more beautiful than naturally very curly hair! Of course it isn't... beauty should come in all hair types!!

But yeah, a different viewpoint to suggest that "pride" involves doing one's hair instead of leaving it natural!

[bettylibertine]

It looks like an interesting and funny watch!

[Bedhead]

What a great educating thread! I've learnt so much, one of which is, I have no desire to see this film.

I spent my childhood in the seventies wanting to be black. Others envied my auburn hair and freckles, and I envied the black girls with such beautiful, beautiful skin and hundreds of colourful bobbles in their hair. I wanted hair like that, the, to me, mysterious hair that could do anything! I had decided I was going to be black one day, until someone sat me down and explained a few things.... :(

I'm curious though. What happened? What happened into the mid eighties from many years of natural hair, to make people want to relax their hair again, and so adamantly? I understand the slave mentality of not appreciating or even recognising your own beauty, but was there some sort of event that triggered the revival of relaxed hair in the eighties that I don't know about???

[Kinkycurlygurl]

What a great educating thread! I've learnt so much, one of which is, I have no desire to see this film.

I spent my childhood in the seventies wanting to be black. Others envied my auburn hair and freckles, and I envied the black girls with such beautiful, beautiful skin and hundreds of colourful bobbles in their hair. I wanted hair like that, the, to me, mysterious hair that could do anything! I had decided I was going to be black one day, until someone sat me down and explained a few things.... :(

I'm curious though. What happened? What happened into the mid eighties from many years of natural hair, to make people want to relax their hair again, and so adamantly? I understand the slave mentality of not appreciating or even recognising your own beauty, but was there some sort of event that triggered the revival of relaxed hair in the eighties that I don't know about???


Relaxed or otherwise straightened hair never went away. Relaxing the hair is presented as the "way" to manage black hair. Many black women don't know any other way to work with their own hair.

[CurlyCap]

What a great educating thread! I've learnt so much, one of which is, I have no desire to see this film.

I spent my childhood in the seventies wanting to be black. Others envied my auburn hair and freckles, and I envied the black girls with such beautiful, beautiful skin and hundreds of colourful bobbles in their hair. I wanted hair like that, the, to me, mysterious hair that could do anything! I had decided I was going to be black one day, until someone sat me down and explained a few things.... :(

I'm curious though. What happened? What happened into the mid eighties from many years of natural hair, to make people want to relax their hair again, and so adamantly? I understand the slave mentality of not appreciating or even recognising your own beauty, but was there some sort of event that triggered the revival of relaxed hair in the eighties that I don't know about???

Maybe you grew up? Lots of little black girls where their hair natural, in braids or puffs decorated with hair toys. However, the social transition to womanhood usually involves starting to wear the hair down and straightened. It' considered better groomed and more attractive.

[Bedhead]

Relaxed or otherwise straightened hair never went away. Relaxing the hair is presented as the "way" to manage black hair. Many black women don't know any other way to work with their own hair.

Really??? My memory must be totally messed up then, because natural seemed to be the norm during the 70's/early 80's. Either it was a bit different in Canada OR I was just blind, and only had eyes for natural hair, because I thought it was so amazing??? Could the BE???

[Bedhead]

Maybe you grew up? Lots of little black girls where their hair natural, in braids or puffs decorated with hair toys. However, the social transition to womanhood usually involves starting to wear the hair down and straightened. It' considered better groomed and more attractive.

Ah ha! That could very well be it. lol! But I still get excited when I see natural hair. :) Thanks for this! :o

[Bedhead]

Sorry everyone, I didn't meant to deflect from the thread....

In any case, I hope there comes a day when being yourself, physically or personally, is not a terrible thing, but that there's also no judgement in trying out other things as well in finding your unique expression, no matter what you look like, no matter what your background.

[kwaniesiam]

Seen it several times, love it. Jason Griggers is fantastic, I want to meet him someday.

[Cocoa_Crema]

My boyfriend and I watched it, and we found it be very eye opening. He was truly surprised when he learned about the weaves. In the past he assumed that it was their real hair.

This movie really showed how much some people were willing to pay for good hair.

[pepperminttea]

This movie really showed how much some people were willing to pay for good hair.

I just watched it; that was my main impression too. I had no idea weaves and maintaining them is so expensive! That would definitely be one of my biggest motivations to go natural if I had type 4 hair. (That and how amazing afros look! :afro:)

[CurlyCap]

I've been trying to figure out how I would chime in on this thread. It's hard to post a reply because I know I'm heavily biased. On one hand, I've been exposed to black culture my entire life and I personally have been involved in too many conversations about "good hair". On the other hand, having family that is not black (and as an adult having friends that are not black), I understand just how clueless the rest of society is about the issue.

I've come to the conclusion that the movie is a starting point. It has a lot of flaws, and many of those flaws have to exist because, quite honestly, a documentary doesn't sell as many tickets as an off-kilter comedy. Also, because of the racial tensions in the United States, it probably wouldn't even had made it to theaters if there were too many scenes of blacks talking about how they were repressed, humiliated and vilified just because of the way they look. The movie also fails to point out that many of the hair modification techniques used by black women are used by every other race, but perhaps not as extensively.

However, i think detractors need to admit that black hair is VERY different from most of what is seen, and advertised towards, in the media. Think about the chasm between straight hair and curly hair, and then realize that the problem is compounded by the fact some black hair is so curly that the spirals can only be seen on close inspection. Most of my white friends don't even know what natural hair looks like. They don't understand why someone would need to seal their hair or how hair can change it's appearance on a daily, if not hourly, basis. For them, just seeing the process of a perm applied and the before and after is educational.

I admit that I'm biased, and often confused because, as a person of mixed heritage, I spend a lot of my life being identified as a black woman even though a lot of my family's culture is Asian. I also was told too many times as a child that because I was mixed I had "good hair", so probably didn't receive nearly the same level of negative feedback as friends who were type 4s. My response to the movie is probably tempered by that.

[AnqeIicDemise]

I suppose it is all about perception. There are women who were offended about the portrayal of women in the movie. I, on the other hand didn't find it offensive. I found it eye opening-- not because "all" (we know this is just a terrible misconception) black women are crazy for wanting to pay an arm and a leg, forgo food and home for some 'crazy ass weave'. I took it more along the lines of "crap, look at the crazy stuff we WOMEN do for the sake of beauty."

Sure I have never experienced the 4b issues or the slavery issues or [ insert other African American minority issues here] but I *am* a woman. As a woman I've done some pretty stupid crap to fit in for some stupid ideal of beauty.

Starved myself so I can be gorgeous? Check.
Exercised myself stupid so I can be gorgeous? Check.
Straightened my hair chemically -- though this was mostly because mom couldn't handle hair that was anything BUT straight --? check.
Had perms because every body else had them? Double Check.
Wished myself to be a gorgeous white woman with red hair, freckles and green eyes? Triple, quadruple check!
Went through a phase where I bound my chest because I wanted to be flatter? yes'm. (it seemed that once I hit puberty the sexy ideal changed from the big breasted woman/hour glass figure to that of a woman with wider hips, bigger butt and smaller boobs. Oh, J. Lo you ruined it for me! LOL)

"Why do we do this to ourselves?" THAT is the question I got from watching this movie, not " why are black women so crazy to do this to themselves?".

/2 cents.

[FrozenBritannia]

AngeIicDemise that is the question I had from the preview too. I have spent HOURS in the salon chair, and once was enough for me, I cannot imagine spending that much time repeatedly there, but most of these processes DO take that long.
And no, its not just black people, they say Prince Williams wife spends up to four hours at the salon before every engagement she goes to. (what on earth are they doing in there??? )

All of this stuff was created for the beauty industry, and boy, does it sell, but why?

[Piyo]

I saw the movie a year or so ago, and before I saw it I didn't know what relaxing hair even was ( I grew up in a predominately white community). After moving to Chicago I worked with many black women, and I either thought they used a hair straightener, or that they just had hair that was fairly straight! I had no idea some were wearing weaves either, but that seems to be very common among white women too.

All it made me think was that natural "nappy" hair must be very difficult to deal with, but I asked some of my natural coworkers, and they said it wasn't, just like some of the boards members have also said.

I wish the movie would have advocated natural hair, and yes, they should have had more women with natural hair giving their opinions! The movie did not make me think black women are crazy or silly, but it made me realize there are still a lot of stigmas out there we need to overcome.




, beautiful skin and hundreds of colourful bobbles in their hair.
Ah, those colorful hair ties, I remember wanting my hair like that too as a kid.

[allmixedup88]

I can not stand that movie or any tyler perry movies.

[FrozenBritannia]

I can not stand that movie or any tyler perry movies.

Chris Rock and Tyler Perry are two different people...

[allmixedup88]

Chris Rock and Tyler Perry are two different people...

I was stating my dislike for the two bc theyre pretty much the same. ridiculous mockeries!

[Synnovea]

I was stating my dislike for the two bc theyre pretty much the same. ridiculous mockeries!

Could you elaborate what you mean by this a bit more? It reads a bit like you just don't like films made by black comics regarding black culture.

[HintOfMint]

I suppose it is all about perception. There are women who were offended about the portrayal of women in the movie. I, on the other hand didn't find it offensive. I found it eye opening-- not because "all" (we know this is just a terrible misconception) black women are crazy for wanting to pay an arm and a leg, forgo food and home for some 'crazy ass weave'. I took it more along the lines of "crap, look at the crazy stuff we WOMEN do for the sake of beauty."

Sure I have never experienced the 4b issues or the slavery issues or [ insert other African American minority issues here] but I *am* a woman. As a woman I've done some pretty stupid crap to fit in for some stupid ideal of beauty.

Starved myself so I can be gorgeous? Check.
Exercised myself stupid so I can be gorgeous? Check.
Straightened my hair chemically -- though this was mostly because mom couldn't handle hair that was anything BUT straight --? check.
Had perms because every body else had them? Double Check.
Wished myself to be a gorgeous white woman with red hair, freckles and green eyes? Triple, quadruple check!
Went through a phase where I bound my chest because I wanted to be flatter? yes'm. (it seemed that once I hit puberty the sexy ideal changed from the big breasted woman/hour glass figure to that of a woman with wider hips, bigger butt and smaller boobs. Oh, J. Lo you ruined it for me! LOL)

"Why do we do this to ourselves?" THAT is the question I got from watching this movie, not " why are black women so crazy to do this to themselves?".

/2 cents.


AngeIicDemise that is the question I had from the preview too. I have spent HOURS in the salon chair, and once was enough for me, I cannot imagine spending that much time repeatedly there, but most of these processes DO take that long.
And no, its not just black people, they say Prince Williams wife spends up to four hours at the salon before every engagement she goes to. (what on earth are they doing in there??? )

All of this stuff was created for the beauty industry, and boy, does it sell, but why?

There was definitely a lack of depth in the documentary when it came to dealing with the woman part of the issue. It's not surprising really. I've seen this phenomenon when it comes to other women's appearance issues discussed by men, whether it's the hijab or the use of makeup. Usually it's a befuddled man asking, "why do women DO this??" When they could find the answer from forthright, introspective and articulate women.

He walks away without answers when usually the answer contains not just the professionalism aspect, and the racism aspect, but also the male-female relations aspect. Men don't like thinking they are the problem, but a male-dominated society that decides that a woman's worth is heavily weighed by her appearance makes a lot of the problems that purportedly confuse men.

Men don't like women who wear too much makeup? Well, why do you think she's wearing all that spackle?
Men don't like women who spend all that money on weaves? Well, why do you think she's spending that money?

There is definitely a race aspect to this issue, no doubt. But to ignore the woman part of it is highly disingenuous and I would have appreciated hearing more articulation from women.

[HappyHair87]

^^That's a REALLY good point:agree: That is true! You can take it to 2 levels!

Non-Black ppl asking why do Black women do this?

Men asking why do WOMEN do this?

It would be cool i we put together a whole documentary on why we as women do what we do...and look at it from all aspects.

[hisprincess]

However, i think detractors need to admit that black hair is VERY different from most of what is seen, and advertised towards, in the media. Think about the chasm between straight hair and curly hair, and then realize that the problem is compounded by the fact some black hair is so curly that the spirals can only be seen on close inspection.

Could you explain more about what you meant here? I'm not sure what problem you're addressing.


I fully agree with the negative reactions to this movie, as well as the posters who addressed the gender issues that are shown when Black male entertainers make their money mocking Black women. They are the ones who make me feel the most defenseless against the media's disparagement of us.

[lacefrost]

There was definitely a lack of depth in the documentary when it came to dealing with the woman part of the issue. It's not surprising really. I've seen this phenomenon when it comes to other women's appearance issues discussed by men, whether it's the hijab or the use of makeup. Usually it's a befuddled man asking, "why do women DO this??" When they could find the answer from forthright, introspective and articulate women.

He walks away without answers when usually the answer contains not just the professionalism aspect, and the racism aspect, but also the male-female relations aspect. Men don't like thinking they are the problem, but a male-dominated society that decides that a woman's worth is heavily weighed by her appearance makes a lot of the problems that purportedly confuse men.

Men don't like women who wear too much makeup? Well, why do you think she's wearing all that spackle?
Men don't like women who spend all that money on weaves? Well, why do you think she's spending that money?

There is definitely a race aspect to this issue, no doubt. But to ignore the woman part of it is highly disingenuous and I would have appreciated hearing more articulation from women.

Yes! Very much this! I had this same feeling about the movie but I couldn't articulate it as well as you did.

[CurlyCap]

Could you explain more about what you meant here? I'm not sure what problem you're addressing.


I fully agree with the negative reactions to this movie, as well as the posters who addressed the gender issues that are shown when Black male entertainers make their money mocking Black women. They are the ones who make me feel the most defenseless against the media's disparagement of us.

I'll try.

First point: Curly hair isn't really put forth as the ideal. Some of this is fashion (ie, in the 80s there were perms), but even then, it's a stylized curly. Turn on the television, watch commercials, go see a movie...and most of what you will see is a variation of straight. Occassionally, there will be some curling iron curls. And finally, one "bold sister" with natural hair. In other words, curly hair is very rarely put forth as a standard of beauty.

Second point: Black hair is not only curly, but it is EXTREMELY curly. Type 3 curls at least make an easily traceable spiral. If they stand 5 feet away from someone, the path of the curl can still be traced. Something about that makes the curl more comprehensible. Also, I think since type 3 hair is seen in more races, it isn't as intimidating or different. Most people know someone really well with type 3 hair.

However, type 4 hair is SO very curly that from far away it appears like a cloud. Very few people understand what type 3 curly hair is like and maintained (as discussed above), and almost no one who doesn't have type 4 hair understands anything about type 4 hair. Black hair care regimens aren't seen in sitcoms or in movies. Advertised black hair care doesn't show hair in it's natural state. There's a huge gap between the reality of type 4 hair and what's visible to most of the population. That's the disconnect I was speaking about.

And when one combines the racial issues with the fact that type 4 hair is almost never celebrated in the mainstream media, it can lead to a lot of low self-esteem and confidence in little black girls who don't see their image anywhere...

[AnqeIicDemise]

There was definitely a lack of depth in the documentary when it came to dealing with the woman part of the issue. It's not surprising really. I've seen this phenomenon when it comes to other women's appearance issues discussed by men, whether it's the hijab or the use of makeup. Usually it's a befuddled man asking, "why do women DO this??" When they could find the answer from forthright, introspective and articulate women.

He walks away without answers when usually the answer contains not just the professionalism aspect, and the racism aspect, but also the male-female relations aspect. Men don't like thinking they are the problem, but a male-dominated society that decides that a woman's worth is heavily weighed by her appearance makes a lot of the problems that purportedly confuse men.

Men don't like women who wear too much makeup? Well, why do you think she's wearing all that spackle?
Men don't like women who spend all that money on weaves? Well, why do you think she's spending that money?

There is definitely a race aspect to this issue, no doubt. But to ignore the woman part of it is highly disingenuous and I would have appreciated hearing more articulation from women.

I sincerely believe the problem is the strong notion that the ideal mate is supposed to look like XYZ because that's what Papa said or Gammy or Great-granny or Big Hollywood or whatever. We're raised to believe that we are supposed to find a certain type of person and that a *WE* have to be a certain type of person to as well.

So both genders do a lot of senseless crap that each assumes the other wants.

Growing up I was confused about this too. Mother always said -- half in jest, but in all seriousness-- that I needed to find myself a nice little 'Guerito para arreglar la raza.' [a nice little white boy to fix the race.] But.. oh hell, there was a STINK if I ever brought home a white boy. So I spent a lot of my life wanting to be a the ideal Caucasian woman. I wanted to *be* someone as attractive as Angelina Jolie... or Reese Witherspoon.

And then you have a kid who was raised by a somewhat absent mother, a stoic grandfather and a batcrap crazy grandmother like my hubs. He spent most of his time reading books, going online and hanging out with the older crowd. We have HUGE debates on what we each find attractive.

I like blue eyes and blonde hair. He likes dark skin, brown eyes. I like more European features (high foreheads, cheek bones, slender bodies) he finds them all repulsive. (Seriously, he finds Angelina Jolie circa 99 disgusting because her nose is too delicate and her forehead too big. O.o; He can only say she's got a nice rack but could stand to gain another thirty pounds.)

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that a lot of what a person finds to be an ideal physical attribute in themselves or another person is a learned behavior. There is no real correct answer on how we can fix this problem in our society completely. The sense of beauty changes with the times and generations to the point that wat *we* find sexy now can be found repulsive the next (think bound feet.) generation or even by a different society.

Chris Rock is not a philanthropist or a a scientist. He is just an ordinary guy that happens to be absurdly funny and famous. He had a question and went about trying to figure out the answer to it and found a much bigger clusterfudge of a problem. Yes there were people that he asked (He *did* speak to more pro-natural folks -- I'll have to get back in touch with the links of the interview I found on youtube.) but the discussion was found on the cutting room floor. I'm sure he had his reasons -- perhaps by introducing this more in detail view was eating up too much time or it was warping the sense of hopelessness he was feeling. I don't know. We were not present during the moment when someone said 'this has got to go.'

Chris Rock is not known for being an intellectual -- he makes social commentary and often for the sake of making people ask questions. If this was his goal, I believe he succeeded with flying colors. After all, we're all sitting here in a hair forum discussing the issue at hand.

ETA: I agree, the documentary was lacking. I was not quite impressed as I am the type of person who likes to see proof of both sides of the argument. However I do believe that this 'Good Hair' got me thinking. It got me to start digging into books and websites more so than before and it certainly has gotten me talking with others about the issue.

[HappyHair87]

^^I get what you are saying:agree:

But...i just wish for ONCE Hollywood would finally put us Black women in a good light. For ONCE can they show what everyday life is like for us? Not all of us listen to rap, not all of us look up to video girls and Nicki Minaj, we read books, some of us are virgins, we're smart, we're carefree...a lot of us are nowhere near the stereotypical Black woman...until we set foot into a store and are followed and watched like criminals.

What about those of us who refuse to watch music videos just because she feels disrespected? You know how...and not to sound sassy or anything...but for instance a movie like Eat.Pray.Love...why can't a Black woman star in a movie like that? We're always pictured as crazy or struggling and abused...tho it may be true for many of us.....i'm am one of many who would like to escape that and have something that puts it in my mind....i can have that too. Why can't we just be viewed as normal people?

[AnqeIicDemise]

^^I get what you are saying:agree:

But...i just wish for ONCE Hollywood would finally put us Black women in a good light. For ONCE can they show what everyday life is like for us? Not all of us listen to rap, not all of us look up to video girls and Nicki Minaj, we read books, some of us are virgins, we're smart, we're carefree...a lot of us are nowhere near the stereotypical Black woman...until we set foot into a store and are followed and watched like criminals.

What about those of us who refuse to watch music videos just because she feels disrespected? You know how...and not to sound sassy or anything...but for instance a movie like Eat.Pray.Love...why can't a Black woman star in a movie like that? We're always pictured as crazy or struggling and abused...tho it may be true for many of us.....i'm am one of many who would like to escape that and have something that puts it in my mind....i can have that too. Why can't we just be viewed as normal people?



I totally hear that. I haven't seen very many movies of Latinas being something other than maids who married rich. Heck, even some of the most beloved telenovelas (i.e. soaps) are of the same rags-to-riches story. Yeah, uplifting but that's not always true.

I hate being called Mexican when I'm not, y'know?

[allmixedup88]

Could you elaborate what you mean by this a bit more? It reads a bit like you just don't like films made by black comics regarding black culture.
Theyre mockeries of the black culture. It is very offensive.
I am on my phone, which is why my responses are short.

[Toadstool]

I didn't come away from the film with any feeling of mockery towards black women. I thought the whole premise was about how men exploit and make money out of them through a huge industry dedicated to making them feel bad about their natural hair.

[allmixedup88]

I didn't come away from the film with any feeling of mockery towards black women. I thought the whole premise was about how men exploit and make money out of them through a hhuge industry dedicated to making them feel bad about their natural hair.
He puts his hand through a black woman.s hair and laughs when his hand gets caught. It was a laughong at not laughing with. He tells the indian woman to run when she sees a black woman. That movie made me go wtf?! I was like is this dude being serious? But I guess I have to keep in mind his target audience are not black or pt black women.

[tgagurl27]

I saw this mentioned on the Tyra show a few years ago and thought I should get it out and watch it. The Tyra show was actually quite interesting, because as well as interviewing Chris Rock about this movie Tyra looked into what "good hair" was and they showed a few mothers who had girls with afros or just volumous hair and they were putting relaxers in their hair to achieve this "good hair", these kids we're only young like 5 years old, I felt really bad for them. Hair should just be embraced positively. It's only going to cost you a load of money to get it changed into how you "want" it to look anyway.

[FrozenBritannia]

I am feeling out of my depth here, but I do think allmixedup88 is being a bit hard on Chris Rock's films. Yes, he is a bit bat crap crazy, but its his shtick, its how he got noticed, and got to where he is today. Not all of his films are a mockery of anything. For instance, "Death At a Funeral" is not his original works. The original film is British, was filmed in Britian, and won several awards. It came out a few years prior to Chris Rock remaking it. And although I did not watch the whole CR remake, I didn't have to, the lines were EXACTLY as in the British Movie. it even had the same little person in it. It was the same movie, just changed to take place in America. Not the best way to make a movie, I agree, but it was not written as a mockery of black culture at all.

I dislike sweeping generalisations, however everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I won't argue the matter.

I do think that the purpose of the Good Hair film WAS to get people thinking, and asking questions, and wondering. It has succeeded there.

[redtuss]

I just watched this movie and was absolutely flabbergasted.. I get the critique some of you are laying on Chris Rock, but to me it was a sincere question that he pursued as he was confronted with it with his daughter's remark about good and bad hair.
According to me the true horror is in society only considering straight hair "good". And all the money in the oppression of both black and white women is horrid - if we spend a great deal of our money on "looking good" and buying products we don't need the risk of women trying to stand their ground more is slimmer.


And OT: I just love curly hair, especially african hair.

[shawty]

I want to see it! I hate the expectation that every black woman is "supposed" to use relaxers... ugh. I like every different kind of hair, and envy everyone who has whatever I don't. As I type this I am wearing my own rag-curls attempt at this hair (Alisha from Misfits):
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx8q2x8AOj1r5j6r5o1_500.jpg

It's disappointing to learn that the actress usually wears her hair relaxed IRL, so they probably chemically curl it all over again for the show. *shakes head*

[Synnovea]

Theyre mockeries of the black culture. It is very offensive.
I am on my phone, which is why my responses are short.

Ah, I see. Based on this and your following post I think I understand you more. I guess I don't understand the connection between him and Tyler Perry. I've never seen one of his films and don't know enough about them.

[allmixedup88]

I am feeling out of my depth here, but I do think allmixedup88 is being a bit hard on Chris Rock's films. Yes, he is a bit bat crap crazy, but its his shtick, its how he got noticed, and got to where he is today. Not all of his films are a mockery of anything. For instance, "Death At a Funeral" is not his original works. The original film is British, was filmed in Britian, and won several awards. It came out a few years prior to Chris Rock remaking it. And although I did not watch the whole CR remake, I didn't have to, the lines were EXACTLY as in the British Movie. it even had the same little person in it. It was the same movie, just changed to take place in America. Not the best way to make a movie, I agree, but it was not written as a mockery of black culture at all.

I dislike sweeping generalisations, however everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I won't argue the matter.

I do think that the purpose of the Good Hair film WAS to get people thinking, and asking questions, and wondering. It has succeeded there.
you are not umderstsmding me. I am going yo go ln the comp after the nanny

[allmixedup88]

Ah, I see. Based on this and your following post I think I understand you more. I guess I don't understand the connection between him and Tyler Perry. I've never seen one of his films and don't know enough about them.
Sorry I am on my phone bc the comp n tv use the same screen and I refuse to turn off the nanny lol

[misspurdy06]

Has anyone else seen this movie? It was soooooo funny! and insightful. I watched it a while back and just watched it again.

It is amazing what women are willing to put on their hair to achieve societies idea of "Good Hair"

Here is a trailer for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-4qxz08So

[Valfreyja]

Yes, I've seen it. Quite an eye-opener. Also relieved that there isn't any nonsense concerning hair-type and politics where I live. Almost all black people here leave their hair kinky/nappy/whatever, which is nice because I happen to think it looks gorgeous. (and a lot healthier, too) The main thing is though obviously that people do what they like to their hair, not what society dictates.

The most offensive thing in that doc though was mums insisting on straightening their toddler's hair. That was just beyond words.

[midsummernight]

This was discussed a while back if you are interested:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=89192

[jacqueline101]

I don't let society dictate to me on the way I should live my life or wear my hair.

[oktobergoud]

I heard about it but haven't seen it yet.. it seems hilarious! I'm going to look for it :)

[arielágua]

Ahaha I love Chris Rock, he is so funny! I wanna watch this too (runs to look for it).
I think white women suffer a bit from this too though, with the fake extensions now. I have seen russian women selling their long blonde hair for wigs too. It is sad, people can't accept their natural texture, but it is also true that people are and should be free to do whatever they want to their hair. :) Hair is to enjoy.

[leslissocool]

I saw it when it came out. BEST DOCUMENTARY EVER!!! :cheese: its hilarious, and he did his research.

it goes over people cutting braids on the trains! And how Indian temples make a ridiculous amount of money on it.

[leslissocool]

I just watched this movie and was absolutely flabbergasted.. I get the critique some of you are laying on Chris Rock, but to me it was a sincere question that he pursued as he was confronted with it with his daughter's remark about good and bad hair.
According to me the true horror is in society only considering straight hair "good". And all the money in the oppression of both black and white women is horrid - if we spend a great deal of our money on "looking good" and buying products we don't need the risk of women trying to stand their ground more is slimmer.


And OT: I just love curly hair, especially african hair.

^^ This.

BFF has curly hair that's at tailbone, like GORGEOUS! I love her hair.

I did not know people put relaxers on 3 year old kids. I thought the documentary did a REALLY good job on showing light on what a relaxer is, how much money does the industry make with the products. I did not know weaves cost that much or how they were put into hair.

I'm not African American, nor I have curly hair. But that documentary made me think twice about buying any type of hair products. I understand people feel like he's instigating a stereotype, but the reality of it is people spend so much money an time and effort to have hair that is socially acceptable (of any race) and I think that, it's time we take a good look at our values and what we want to teach our children.

[DancingQueen]

http://www.1channel.ch/watch-19818-Good-Hair

I recommend the put locker or sockshare links :)

[swearnsue]

I only caught a tiny bit of it but it's on my list of must-sees! I saw the part where he is interviewing black men about if they are "allowed" to touch their black women's hair! The answer was NO!

[~*~Aspen~*~]

I just watched it last night! It was really funny!- Alot of what was said was so true.. The only part I didn't care for was the competition. (I wasn't impressed.)

:popcorn:

Other than that it was a really good movie.

[~*~Aspen~*~]

I just watched it last night! It was really funny!- Alot of what was said was so true.. The only part I didn't care for was the competition. (I wasn't impressed.)

:popcorn:

Other than that it was a really good movie.

[chen bao jun]

It was an interesting movie. I watched it about a year ago. There is a segment of the black population that does think about hair the way he portrayed it--a large segment, actually. But I think some things have changed since he put the movie out, in spite of all the controversy it caused. Not doing permanent straigtening is a GOOD thing--I speak as a person who did this for like, twenty years.

Unfortunately I don't think the problem at the bottom has changed--if it had, hair weaves would not be so very popular. (Though of course you have a right to wear one if you want. However, its a little striking to me personally to see black women with blond straight-haired weaves down to their bottoms that don't match anything about them saying that its just a style choice that has nothing whatsoever to do with their living in a white culture where that's the white standard of beauty).

Also, as always, the movie will miss its point if people who are not black watch it and think afterwards that they understand all about ALL black women and their hair and assume that all the things in it are every black woman's experience--We are a very diverse group of people and NOTHING applies to all of us. Plus, what women used to do to their hair in the 1960's when I was a little girl and now in the 2000's is very much not the same, and there was the black pride/big afro period in the 1970's that some women grew up during, and plus, there are the foreign black cultures--Caribbean people, African people, European black people and say, mixed race black people living with a white parent (particularly a mother) are going to have some VERY different experiences--

One could also make an interesting movie about American white women and what is done with their hair--and what Asians do to their hair, etc. etc.

But I personally think Chris Rock did a good job with the movie and made people think and since he made it, his daughter has a much better chance of being allowed to grow up experiencing her natural hair.

[Crumpet]

One could also make an interesting movie about American white women and what is done with their hair--and what Asians do to their hair, etc. etc.

But I personally think Chris Rock did a good job with the movie and made people think and since he made it, his daughter has a much better chance of being allowed to grow up experiencing her natural hair.

I agree with you. I also agree that it would be interesting to see more about other things that people do with their hair. I'm endlessly fascinated since I know that my own choices are totally outrageous (as I sit with gelatin and yoghurt on my head for a protein treatment).

[Aingeal]

I know it's a zombie thread, but wow, I've learned so much from it. I have five nephews who are African American and their mom, my sister, is caucasian. We are lucky to live in a diverse area, but she knows that they can never move due to the way they could be treated. I never thought about hair in this way.

Thank you.

[Michiru]

It wasn't until I was in 11th grade that I found out that African American women had to use different shampoo or their hair would break off. I thought the little section in the store was just a marketing thing like the blondes and reds shampoo. For most of my life I thought the hair was just straighten . I never knew or would have guessed women would be wearing fake hair or wigs. I started reading about in around 2005. I did see the movie and I had a hard time believing everyone did what he was saying, mainly because of the cost but I did find it informative. My mom did have me get a perm when I was in 2nd grade so it's not too had to believe that parents have their kids go through that. I guess when you know a lot about something not including certain info would be insultive just as if someone did a documentry on long hair we would probably find something they left out even if jane doe was encourged to grow her hair from watching it.

[koolkittychick]

This was an interesting thread to read, especially the thoughts of the non-Black commentators on it. I saw the movie several years ago when it first came out, and as a Black woman I thought the movie dealt with a touchy issue (at least in the Black community) in a funny, yet informative way. The interesting thing to me is how much things have changed, and sadly, haven't changed, in attitudes towards type 4 Black hair in the years since this movie came out. While we see many more women now growing out and celebrating their natural type 4 hair, the "good hair" pathos is still very much alive, as many naturals spend as much time, effort and money to try to get their type 4 hair to look like type 3 hair as they did in getting weaves or relaxers. And even now, knowing where it comes from, many Black women would rather wear weaves or wigs than deal with their natural hair, and it's a damn shame. I would like to say more, but I'm going to be late for work, so I will come back and speak on this further.

[Sharysa]

This is really interesting since I'm Filipino-American, and I have a lot of black friends who are natural. They tend to poke good-natured fun at the girls who use weaves, and it's really not hard to see why because a lot of the tackier women run around with two-toned blonde/black hair that really can't be natural. One of my friends does have a synthetic weave, but it looks good since it's dark and wavy instead of blonde and pin-straight.

The commentary about good hair tends to remind me on how a lot of Asians and Pacific Islanders ALSO straighten their hair, dye/bleach it, and otherwise wrangle their natural hair into trying to live up to the "Asian Hair" stereotype running through the media. If someone isn't surprised that my hair is mostly natural (I use braid-waves to make it behave better) and that Asians/Pacific-Islanders can even have naturally curly/wavy hair, other Asians/Pacific-Islanders are surprised that I'm not straightening my hair. (At least, not anymore.)

I really want to watch this movie because I enjoy Chris Rock's humor, but unfortunately I don't have Netflix.

[Flor]

I really want to watch this movie because I enjoy Chris Rock's humor, but unfortunately I don't have Netflix.

I found it in 6 parts on youtube in a rather decent quality. Here's part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVjsO5ayz0U The rest should show up in the recommended to watch side part.

Can you believe that until about a year ago, I was absolutely convinced that Naomi Campbell's, Tyra's, Beyonce's and many many others' hair was naturally that way? I thought it was totally possible for black women to have straight or wavy hair. I mean, I figured they must be dyeing and styling it, but I had no idea it was weaves.

And even with Caucasian celebrities, I still don't tend to suspect weaves or extensions (unless it's specifically mentioned). I guess I'm really clueless.

I thought the movie was interesting, although I didn't care for the stylists completion parts, I was skipping those. I thought Tyra's show (that popped in the recommended videos) was really good too. Usually I'm not a big fan of Tyra, but I liked the way she handled that subject.

Am I right to assume that weaving and extensions and chemical straightening were first invented by black people? To conform to European/Caucasian beauty standards? I just find it fascinating that nowadays Europeans/Caucasians feel the pressure to use same tricks to conform with standards instated by the weave/extensions length and thickness.

[Wiggy Stardust]

Man, hair is such a heavy subject in many respects.

I've seen the film. I thought he could do so much more with it and I was really underwhelmed. I noticed him interviewing hairstylists who mentioned women getting weaves on loan and stuff. I mean, isn't that a very rich topic? Women will go into debt for a bit of dead carbon that would naturally grow from their scalp in a (in the grander scheme of the universe's diversity) very similar shape! There has to be some sort of vast insecurity about this hair business but he interviewed people who shrugged and went "WELL THIS IS OUR LIFE AS BLACK WOMEN, SO PAY FOR YOUR EXPENSIVE WEAVE". No no no, there must be a reason why perfectly lovely hair is seen as inadequate. He barely touched on this.

Furthermore, I disagree with the notion that natural = better, and that black unnatural hair < white unnatural hair. I am no stranger to fakeness. My hair is pastel pink, but I promise you it grows out of my scalp a medium ash brown. I know white girls with more fake hair on their heads than real. Now, some of these girls definetly try to make it as natural as possible, and many are quite good at it (much like some black women). And some go totally unnatural. When white girls do this, the unnatural thing is pushed as "edgy" or "alternative". When black girls do this, I increasingly see people making rude comments akin to "trashy" and "ghetto". Personally, I think he could have went into how black women might see strange haircuts and colors as self-expressive instead of that way-too-long spectacle of a show. It only presented black women as strange and something to gawk at, including their hair. I find it totally disrespectful.

And furthermore even "natural" hair on black women has the "ideal". Yes, there is the image of perfect natural black hair. Here's one example but I'm sure you've seen similar ones in everything from commercials to Hallmark movies. (http://blackgirllonghair.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/12.png) This type of hair, while VERY lovely, is pretty far from what I consider most black women to grow out of their heads with little intervention - and I'm talking about everything from the color to the size of the curls. I'm also not saying that every black woman is a natural 4c, but black women are as diverse as white women when it comes to the range their hair can cover, and I don't know why he didn't mention this type of "good hair".

And I'm not even claiming to know much of anything about black hair. I can't even figure my own hair out, let alone anyone elses. But holy jeez, if a 1c/C/iii girl can spot glaring omissions in a documentary about a group of people you are a member of and claim to represent, clearly something went wrong here.

[Kaelee]

I definitely want to see this! I'll check it out when I have time.

I find it really interesting, I have an African (really, African- she just immigrated from Liberia a few years ago) coworker who does all manner of things with her hair. Usually having it straightened, or straight up wearing a wig. Her natural hair texture is BEAUTIFUL and everyone tells her she should wear it natural more often. (It's beautiful whatever she does with it, but we all wish she wouldn't hide her natural hair!) I have another coworker who always wears wigs, too (she's African American)- she's not shy at all about her wig-wearing and has a lot of fun with it.

I catch myself wondering why they do these things...and then I realize that white women do it too, but in different ways (I myself dye my hair, though I use henna). It's really interesting to think about the cultural expectations and insecurities involving hair- how it can be seen as "necessary" to spend $75+ a month at a salon when you can't afford food (and again, I see both black and white women doing this!)

Maybe I'm far outside the norm in that I never saw anything like this as "necessary". I see expensive haircare as an unnecessary luxury. If you can afford it, and you want to do it, more power too you, but if you can't afford it...there are far more important things.

I really don't know (and maybe I will after watching the video but I don't have time right now). But is there really such a cultural necessity in the black community to do these things to their hair? (I always assumed not, because I do see black women with natural hair, although it's usually close cropped.)

[koolkittychick]

{QUOTE]Am I right to assume that weaving and extensions and chemical straightening were first invented by black people? To conform to European/Caucasian beauty standards? I just find it fascinating that nowadays Europeans/Caucasians feel the pressure to use same tricks to conform with standards instated by the weave/extensions length and thickness.[/QUOTE]
Actually, no. While the ancient Egyptians made wig-wearing a cultural practice circa 3,400 BC, Europeans have used wigs and extensions for thousands of years. It was mostly limited to the wealthy class because only they could afford the extremely expensive practice. Once the expense and technology for wig-making became more accessible, the more common folk (including Black people) were able to improve upon it suit it to their specific purposes.

[koolkittychick]

Am I right to assume that weaving and extensions and chemical straightening were first invented by black people? To conform to European/Caucasian beauty standards? I just find it fascinating that nowadays Europeans/Caucasians feel the pressure to use same tricks to conform with standards instated by the weave/extensions length and thickness.
Actually, no. While the ancient Egyptians made wig-wearing a cultural practice circa 3,400 BC, Europeans have used wigs and extensions for thousands of years. It was mostly limited to the wealthy class because only they could afford the extremely expensive practice. Once the expense and technology for wig-making became more accessible, the more common folk (including Black people) were able to improve upon it suit it to their specific purposes.

[LauraLongLocks]

I paid the $1.99 on YouTube to watch it. Apparently, it's not free to watch in the US. As a white woman, I had no idea. I used to live in VA, where there is a large population of black people, and I had many black friends, but never a clue. Except for two experiences, I had no clue, and even those two experiences shed little light on the subject for me.

One day in the 7th grade while I waited for the school bus with some of my friends. It was raining, and the black girls didn't like the rain on their hair. One of them started dripping white stuff from her hair, and all the white kids were saying things like, "Ewwww, what is that? Gross!" The black girl in question was one of my friends and she told me it was from all the oils/products she had to use in her hair.

Another time, in the 6th grade, one of my black friends came to school with hair down to her butt, in tiny little brown/blonde braids. I was astonished, because she had short hair (maybe flat ironed? It was in large stiff curls) the day before! She told me they were extensions, a weave, and I was just amazed. How did the hair appear to be coming out of her head if it was fake?

Many of my other black friends had natural hair, looking back. I thought it looked great! I was a bit envious of cornrows, and dreads. I couldn't get my slippery white-girl hair to do that! No one that I knew back then had the poofy looking afro, but if they did, I would have thought they were awesome to rock such a look. White people couldn't get that kind of lift unless we spent hours teasing our hair, and it wouldn't look near as good!

Now I live in Idaho, where there is such a small black population, my younger children sometimes see a black person in the store and will stare, point, and ask me questions about them. I have just matter-of-factly told them that the person is black, and moved on with my day. We have a large Hispanic minority here, but it's mostly a white-populated area.

[chen bao jun]

It's totally possible for black women to have straight or wavy hair. And also for us to be natural redheads or even blond. Its just not very common--in the United States, anyway. In the Caribbean you see this variety a great deal more than you do here.
The vast majority of my Dad's family has wavy or straight hair, or else 3a or 3b curls. there's other 3cs like me, but it happens a lot less. On the other hand, my mom's family are all 4b or 4c (even though her mother, my grandmother on that side was a type 2 wavy.
It's best not to assume anything, when you are discussing a group of people as diverse as blacks. You can only say what is usual or unusual.
And people do go the other way. I have a niece who has naturally auburn hair (about type 4a). she has been dying it black since she was 18 and her mom could no longer prevent her from doingthat because she was so sick of people assuming the auburn was fake. She is the same complexion as Beyonce, so has somewhat dark skin but also has naturally hazel eyes.


Can you believe that until about a year ago, I was absolutely convinced that Naomi Campbell's, Tyra's, Beyonce's and many many others' hair was naturally that way? I thought it was totally possible for black women to have straight or wavy hair. I mean, I figured they must be dyeing and styling it, but I had no idea it was weaves.

Am I right to assume that weaving and extensions and chemical straightening were first invented by black people? To conform to European/Caucasian beauty standards? I just find it fascinating that nowadays Europeans/Caucasians feel the pressure to use same tricks to conform with standards instated by the weave/extensions length and thickness.

Generally blacks with naturally straight or wavy hair tend to have light complexions, but you cannot assume that because someone is dark and their hair is straight, that it is not natural. This definitely occurs naturally sometimes, though it is not very common. In regards to the celebrities that were mentioned, I would have assumed that Naomi Campbell, Tyra and Beyonce all had weaves just because they were celebrities and celebrities of any color tend to be fake. Plus early photographs of all of them exist, showing their natural hair. Childhood photos of people who are adults now are generally total giveaways (although this won't be the case in the future as so many moms now start their children with hair weaves at very early ages). Also, in real life, if someone has a couple inches of hair one day and its waist length the next day, it's unlikely it grew that fast. the way someone behaves is also a clue. If they fear rain and swimming pools and if in a dating situation, they insist that their loved one never ever touch their hair, it probably did not grow out of their head (at least not quite that way). I have the hardest time convincing my husband that its okay to stroke my hair, he was trained so well by 3 sisters and his mother that hair is a hand-off deal. And my very own mom (who is a 4c) absolutely refused to ever let me, her daughter, touch her hair or even SEE it (she always had on wigs and sometimes had weaves and extensions) until last year.Yes, it can be THAT serious to some people in the black community. Fortunately Mom is past that now and is growing her own natural hair and likes it (I'm so proud of her).
But it took a lot of her hair falling out to the point that she had actual bald spots for her to even try to be natural (and find out that she liked it). That's unfortunately another way you can tell whose hair is natural or not. Weaves make you bald, maybe sooner, maybe later, but having seen people, many of them close to me, wearing weaves since around 1990, I haven't seen anyone escape this, though some do for a time. And relaxers and straightening with a hot comb or flat iron keep your hair SHORT. Which is fine, except if you don't want it that way. My mother has been so shocked to see her hair grow to bra strap in just about a year, as soon as she gave those toxic things up.

[LauraLongLocks]

Generally blacks with naturally straight or wavy hair tend to have light complexions, but you cannot assume that because someone is dark and their hair is straight, that it is not natural. This definitely occurs naturally sometimes, though it is not very common. In regards to the celebrities that were mentioned, I would have assumed that Naomi Campbell, Tyra and Beyonce all had weaves just because they were celebrities and celebrities of any color tend to be fake. Plus early photographs of all of them exist, showing their natural hair. Childhood photos of people who are adults now are generally total giveaways (although this won't be the case in the future as so many moms now start their children with hair weaves at very early ages). Also, in real life, if someone has a couple inches of hair one day and its waist length the next day, it's unlikely it grew that fast. the way someone behaves is also a clue. If they fear rain and swimming pools and if in a dating situation, they insist that their loved one never ever touch their hair, it probably did not grow out of their head (at least not quite that way). I have the hardest time convincing my husband that its okay to stroke my hair, he was trained so well by 3 sisters and his mother that hair is a hand-off deal. And my very own mom (who is a 4c) absolutely refused to ever let me, her daughter, touch her hair or even SEE it (she always had on wigs and sometimes had weaves and extensions) until last year.Yes, it can be THAT serious to some people in the black community. Fortunately Mom is past that now and is growing her own natural hair and likes it (I'm so proud of her).
But it took a lot of her hair falling out to the point that she had actual bald spots for her to even try to be natural (and find out that she liked it). That's unfortunately another way you can tell whose hair is natural or not. Weaves make you bald, maybe sooner, maybe later, but having seen people, many of them close to me, wearing weaves since around 1990, I haven't seen anyone escape this, though some do for a time. And relaxers and straightening with a hot comb or flat iron keep your hair SHORT. Which is fine, except if you don't want it that way. My mother has been so shocked to see her hair grow to bra strap in just about a year, as soon as she gave those toxic things up.

So where can an uninformed white girl see natural 4c hair that long? I've never seen it. How does a 4c girl style her hair? Dreads, braids, and cornrows?

[HintOfMint]

So where can an uninformed white girl see natural 4c hair that long? I've never seen it. How does a 4c girl style her hair? Dreads, braids, and cornrows?

Rapunzel's Daughters (a tumblr featuring long hair of all sorts) has a lot of images of natural hair in the 4 range. As far as geographically, I've found that New York City has natural 4c women pretty much everywhere.

[chen bao jun]

Google it and you should see some lovely examples of type 4 hair grown long.
There is also a forum, LongHairCareForum where there are some ladies. A lot of them flat iron, though.
there are some long haired type 4 ladies on our own forum, there's a thread for type 4's that you can look at right here.
I know a lot of natural type 4 ladies do twists in their hair and also braids and other hairstyles they can keep in for some amount of time because type 4 hair is so fragile that 'no manipulation' is sometimes necessary to get good length. I'm a 3c, which is not quite the same and also have coarse hair, which helps it not to break as easily (most people with hypercurly hair also have very, very fine hair) but I have to keep my hair protected a lot more than you probably do, and than most people on this forum. I was thinking about this yesterday when I was visiting a friend overnight and had her daughters ask me why I was braiding my hair to go to sleep. I have the same length hair that they do (bottom brastrap) but they can sleep with it loose and without a satin pillowcase and wear it down most of the time and keep bra-strap length --but I really can't. Forme, sleeping with loose hair means horrific tangles--and hair breakage from detangling. My mom keeps hers in cornrows and even washes it braided. I think the only other group of people who have such fragile hair that breaks so easily are the baby fine scandinavian blondes, but they aren't also dealing with the curls, where every bend the hair makes is a stress point where it's likely to break if you're not super careful.
Sorry I don't have a better answer, but one of the ladies in the type 4 thread might.

So where can an uninformed white girl see natural 4c hair that long? I've never seen it. How does a 4c girl style her hair? Dreads, braids, and cornrows?

[koolkittychick]

So where can an uninformed white girl see natural 4c hair that long? I've never seen it. How does a 4c girl style her hair? Dreads, braids, and cornrows?
Go to Black Girls with Long Hair (http://blackgirllonghair.com/), and you will see lots of Black women with long hair. And no, we don't only wear dreads, braids or cornrows if we have long 4c hair.

[LauraLongLocks]

Fascinating. I'm sorry to be so curious. I did not mean any offense by listing the only styles that came to mind. There are so many beautiful styles for natural African hair. I can't imagine thinking of it as "bad" hair.

[koolkittychick]

Fascinating. I'm sorry to be so curious. I did not mean any offense by listing the only styles that came to mind. There are so many beautiful styles for natural African hair. I can't imagine thinking of it as "bad" hair.
Nothing to be sorry for. :) We truly have unique hair, and it's a shame that some of us are only now rediscovering the beauty that we can create with it. Although I am still relaxed right now, I am looking forward to transitioning back to my natural texture, as I will have a much easier time of it in terms of finding products for my hair and having the support of friends and family. My little sister has already made the transition, and in the 5 years she has been natural, her hair has grown to MBL, which translates for her into to a big, beautiful Afro cloud that she (and everyone else) loves.

[chen bao jun]

I think you will love having natural hair.
I ditched the relaxers 13 years ago and can't believe now that I was ever doing that. I jsut did it cold turkey, no big chop. I wore my hair up and it did not fall out where the relaxed part joined the natural part, though everyone swore it would. And I had no idea of good hair care then, was doing nothing special.
I usually just wear a bun of some sort. Lazy wrap, disc bun, southern tease bun work well for me as well as cinnabun. I use hairtoys, lots of ficcares and sometimes hair sticks. Amish pins sometimes. I braid my hair at night--two to four braids. I do a crown braid a lot of the time which is just a cornrow going around my head, really. Once in a while I wear it all out but not too much as I am still in the growing phase and it grows way fasterwhen its up.

Nothing to be sorry for. :) We truly have unique hair, and it's a shame that some of us are only now rediscovering the beauty that we can create with it. Although I am still relaxed right now, I am looking forward to transitioning back to my natural texture, as I will have a much easier time of it in terms of finding products for my hair and having the support of friends and family. My little sister has already made the transition, and in the 5 years she has been natural, her hair has grown to MBL, which translates for her into to a big, beautiful Afro cloud that she (and everyone else) loves.

[koolkittychick]

I think you will love having natural hair.
I ditched the relaxers 13 years ago and can't believe now that I was ever doing that. I jsut did it cold turkey, no big chop. I wore my hair up and it did not fall out where the relaxed part joined the natural part, though everyone swore it would. And I had no idea of good hair care then, was doing nothing special.
I usually just wear a bun of some sort. Lazy wrap, disc bun, southern tease bun work well for me as well as cinnabun. I use hairtoys, lots of ficcares and sometimes hair sticks. Amish pins sometimes. I braid my hair at night--two to four braids. I do a crown braid a lot of the time which is just a cornrow going around my head, really. Once in a while I wear it all out but not too much as I am still in the growing phase and it grows way fasterwhen its up.

Oh, no doubt, Chen, I will enjoy my natural hair once I transition back; I have been natural before, back when there was very little support or products to help in the process. Here is a pic of me about 6 years ago, with APL hair, rocking my cute Afro puff:
http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r778/macfille/afro-pic_zps8d2ef9ef.jpg (http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/macfille/media/afro-pic_zps8d2ef9ef.jpg.html)
I hope I did that right. The only reason I went back to the creamy crack was that I made the mistake of going to a "natural hair care" salon for help in maintaining the color I was using at the time, and they destroyed my hair with bleach. I had to cut most of it off, and by then I was a little too fluffy for a TWA, so back to a relaxed bob I went. Now that I am MBL relaxed, I am going to just enjoy getting to WL (maybe a little longer?) without dealing with all the shrinkage of my natural hair before I begin the transition back.

[koolkittychick]

Oy, I went and checked the print of this pic, and it was actually from 10 years ago! :eek: How time flies...

[chen bao jun]

It's a cute pic.
I have some decent shrinkage, too. I'm bra strap bottom at this point but I look like APL unstretched. Sometimes I mind but I wouldn't switch for a hair type with less shrinkage because that would mean less curl.
My goal is waist unstretched but that's years in the future so I'm just trying to get to waist stretched right now, which should be in 2015.
I personally don't think I could stand my hair to be waist length relaxed, I pretty much hated everything about how it behaved when relaxed. But I've come to realize that I'm a minority opinion there, people look at me so funny when I say that. But really, I found it much harder to deal with and just love washing, braiding and forgetting it when its natural.

[koolkittychick]

I can totally see that, since you have hair like my mother's according to your profile (3c, right?). My mom has never had a relaxer because she never needed one; she was perfectly happy with her curls, she's never had a problem with tangles, and loves styling her hair. Her hair would have been a limp mess had she relaxed it, especially now that it is getting less dense in her golden years (she will be 68 in February). I love styling her hair for her, especially when I put some curlformers in her hair to get some lovely, bouncy corkscrews that we can brush out for big, full waves, put up into a cute, swirly pony, or just let hang free in all its spiral glory. I thought my hair wasn't that versatile (I know better now), so I resorted to relaxers for similar styling options. Whether straight or natural, my hair will always be rather "high maintenance" because of its moisture needs. If I braided and forgot it, it would come back and bite me bad, so I tend it like the finicky garden it is. :)

[chen bao jun]

Yes, 3c.
'Limp mess' pretty much describes my relaxed hair, but before I was on this forum 'out of control' or 'explosion' described my hair in general--its very thick and I was never taught how to treat it properly because my mom had no idea. Being a 4c (and the daughter of a 2b or something like that, wavy, not curly), my mom thought that less curl meant easy maintenance--surprise! Not when you have a 5 inch circumference. And not when you believe that when curls are less tight, they can be BRUSHED. That worked fine for my grandmother, the 2b, but not for me (can you really brush your mom's hair? I look like roseanne roseannadanna when I try that).
It's really not all about the curl pattern, or even very much about the curl pattern, from my experience. Everybody is versatile when you are doing the right thing for that particular type of hair.
Mine has a lot of moisture needs, too--though I do know what you mean about type 4 needing even more, since helping my mom with her hair. and she's a fine like you. I was shocked at how fragile her hair is. I was also shocked at how very very soft her hair is. My coarse hair never feels soft. Everyone has their advantages and disadvantages....
Thank you, I think you are the first black person to accept what I said about hating my relaxed hair and finding it limp, dead, lifeless and very hard to deal with. I don't think it looked as dead as it felt, because its so thick that it still somehow had pouf--but goodness it felt terrible. I'm so glad those days are over and that they will never, ever return.

[Naiadryade]

I haven't watched the movie, and I don't think I will. I read this whole thread--I learned so much and it really made me think. Thanks so much to everybody who has contributed.

[Kaelee]

I had no idea that African hair was so fragile! I thought being as course as it is, it must be tough as all get out but I guess i was wrong.

[leslissocool]

I had no idea that African hair was so fragile! I thought being as course as it is, it must be tough as all get out but I guess i was wrong.

Coarse hair doesn't always mean coarse texture. Many people see african hair and assume it's coase because of it's texture, but it's not. My hair is very very coarse but my texture makes it seem like it's not, because of the waves.

[Kaelee]

Coarse hair doesn't always mean coarse texture. Many people see african hair and assume it's coase because of it's texture, but it's not. My hair is very very coarse but my texture makes it seem like it's not, because of the waves.

Your hair reminds me of a friend's hair, texture wise. Her hair is blonde, wavy like yours, and very coarse- all of her friends say it's like a horse's mane, which totally suits her because she has a lifelong love of horses. :D

[Sharysa]

I had no idea that African hair was so fragile! I thought being as course as it is, it must be tough as all get out but I guess i was wrong.

Just letting you know that coarse hair can get pretty fragile as well, especially if it's wavy/curly like a lot of African hair is. Waves/curls are known for being prone to drying, and they're also a very prone to tangling. For example, while my hair is coarse and pretty strong, I end up with a fair amount of breakage to get rid of because it's 1c/2a and it gets tangled ALL THE TIME. Since a lot of African hair is all the way into the 3s and 4s, that means it's a lot more fragile and prone to tangles.