difficulty oiling

[SlightlySoprano]

Hey all :)

I'm having some problems finding the right balance of oil to use. Since I have seborrheic dermatitis, I have to wash my hair with fairly harsh shampoo fairly frequently and my length THIRSTS for moisture. I have experimented with castor oil, EVOO, coconut oil and jojoba. So far the best has been jojoba, but I still can't seem to find a balance. I find that my hair just looks greasy and I have to wash it more often. Any suggestions? Different oil? I don't feel like I'm using a lot, 4 drops approximately...

TIA :blossom:

[PrairieRose]

I also have fine hair and often struggle to find a balance with oil. I recently started using Camellia oil. I love it! I use a tiny bit on my ends and my hair does not look greasy. It is a very light oil.:)

[Sillage]

I've had really good luck with West African shea butter for moisturizing without looking greasy. Another thing you might try is blending a small amount of oil into a leave in treatment.

[Lipbalmbabe]

I sometimes mix oil with water to get it to absorb better

[roxee]

maybe drenching your ends in oil before you shampoo to help protect your hair while its being washed

[SlightlySoprano]

Thanks for your replies! I do generally soak my ends pre-shampoo. I'm wondering if my hair is just not porous and not soaking up the oil I don't use any cones regularly:confused:

[Apriori]

No matter what oil I use and no matter how little I use my hair always end up looking greasy. Maybe oils just don't work as leave in for some hair types.

[Lipbalmbabe]

I have good luck with argan oil since it's light! :)

[ktani]

Hey all :)

I'm having some problems finding the right balance of oil to use. Since I have seborrheic dermatitis, I have to wash my hair with fairly harsh shampoo fairly frequently and my length THIRSTS for moisture. I have experimented with castor oil, EVOO, coconut oil and jojoba. So far the best has been jojoba, but I still can't seem to find a balance. I find that my hair just looks greasy and I have to wash it more often. Any suggestions? Different oil? I don't feel like I'm using a lot, 4 drops approximately...

TIA :blossom:

Mineral oil/baby oil is the best oiling oil I have ever tried, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=86298.

Jojoba oil never worked well for me either. I use Johnson's Original Baby Oil. The smell does not linger for me and my hair is never sticky, greasy or stringy with it. I do not need to reapply it between washes and I get no tangles, static or frizz and my hair is not weighed down. Less than 3 drops does it for me.

ETA: Unless you have reactions to fragrance, the baby oil should not affect your scalp and may help it. It (ETA:2 mineral oi) is used in wound healing, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1972420&postcount=206 . You can buy mineral oil unfragranced too, light cosmetic mineral oil.

[heidi w.]

While what oil one chooses to use differs from person-to-person, the amount of oil one uses is the bigger keystone. I also almost always caution against placing oil on scalp skin or scalp skin related hair. Sebum production will take care of the scalp skin.

The first thing to review in this post is what is Seborrheic Dermatitus?

It is related to dandruff, and is a relatively severe form of Dandruff. It begins with a red bump somewhere on the head that eventually fills with excess sebum (a clear liquid). If left unattended, this leads to a kind of disturbance that causes itchiness. And it's VERY itchy. Eventually the bump weeps fluid. And by that time the fluid can possibly change to a yellowish hue somewhat. This weeping causes more itchiness and if one does scratch, which is nearly impossible to forego, the bump can indeed bleed. At some point all that wetness dries up and seals and as the skin becomes drier, it becomes tighter and again itches intensely. To remove this seal of dry skin it does not slough off as a skin cell. Instead often one has to go after it with tweezers and try peeling it off, with it all wrapped around a few hair strands. The skin tends to come off in a miniature sheet, not slough off. It's highly aggravating. I've tried dietary stuff; I've tried various shampoos, and almost nothing has worked well.

Shampooing the hair means often that I have itchiness pretty much right away. I did ACV rinses which helped a little bit. I tried cone-free shampoos. It didn't matter. Vitamins didn't help. Nothing helped.

I have some friends that have this and they seem to have it far less intensely than I do, so I have surmised that it does occur in degrees.

A few things I have learned:
NEVER, EVER apply conditioner nor oil to scalp skin. This aggravates the condition.

ACV rinses help (or white vinegar rinse) but it doesn't solve the problem.

Scritching the scalp skin offered some relief.

I did have some help from Prescription Strength Nizoral shampoo. It's expensive to purchase, but it made a difference. This is an anti-fungal shampoo.

I now have a way that manages it almost so that I do not have terrible symptoms. I am unfortunately not allowed, per LHC policy, to mention this product here.

Washing the hair super rapidly as in each day is not the wisest idea, usually. For S.D. folks, washing every other day works in really bad situations of the condition. I can go a whole week, or 5 days now, if I want.

I use scalp washing to help manage things. It reduces the time I spend in the bathroom and shower, especially in winter when it's very cold.

I have never been overly knowledgeable about this apparent wet and dry forms of Dandruff; however, Seborrheic Dermatitus, is a form of wet dandruff, if you ask me. My condition was diagnosed by a license Dermatologist out of Stanford Medical Center in California.

I can feel it building on my scalp, and some of my internet search work for information has led to be conclude that in adults we call it Seborrheic Dermatitus; whereas in kids it's called Cradle Cap, it seems. One can feel the sebum building and creating a layer on the scalp skin and kind of clamping down or enclosing the head kind of like a firm hat. It's very uncomfortable. And try as one might, scalp itchiness is fairly intense and almost can't be helped it's so intense sometimes.

An important element of understanding this condition is to understand what is the Acid Mantle. There's lots on the internet about the Acid Mantle, and all humans have one. Acid Mantle is the combination of sweat and sebum to create a thin layer on top of scalp skin to protect the skin and the hair follicles. There's some bacteria always present on scalp skin, and it kind of "eats" sebum but when there's a boatload of sebum, this bacteria goes into hyperactivity and creates problems. This is the simplest way to explain things.

In S.D. one can also have hair loss and resulting somewhat lesser volume of hair overall. There's a balancing act that goes on with S.D.

ACV or white Vinegar rinses can help re-set the pH of scalp skin to more on the acidic end of the pH scale since shampoos and conditioner tends to set the pH to alkali (or base as some pH scales name it). In short, you really want "netural" setting or something around 6.8, and an acid rinse such as ACV or lemon juice works very well for this outcome. Additionally ACV itself, per se, has the "mother" of apple pulp in it meaning that it has Malic Acid which is known to be beneficial to scalp skin. Indeed, one can ACV rinse any part of the body, and I've heard people even combatting body odor with this rinse. white Vinegar does not have malic acid in it, nor does lemon juice. But if one is blonde, they should instead use white vinegar because ACV used over a long duration of time will result in a reddish hue in the hair. (It did me, or so I think. We also have red hair in the family geneology.) This rinse removes any product in that specific hair wash that was not rinsed out. It removes hard water minerals that have deposited on the hair in this specific hair wash. Once stuff has dried on the hair, ACV Rinse will NOT remove it. (ACV and vinegar rinses are not to be confused with clarifying the hair.)

I also recommend that if one can use a shower head filter or soften the water in their house, it is very helpful to have softened water (as I did at my house). Filtering water with a shower head filter is relatively easy for apartment rental dwellers and house renters alike. It can cost as little as around $40 for a shower head arm attachment to filter the water. Be SURE to replace the filter so buy extra filters and keep yourself supplied. In addition to softening my shower head water, I also have a shower head filter arm attachment. It helps a lot. Not everyone can afford osmosis filtration, especially in bathrooms. That's usually purchased for under the kitchen sink filtration of water. If you have really hard water or water with a fair amount of iron or sulphur in it (as some other countries' water possess), I recommend filtering the water heartily.

Condition only the hair length. I use Biolage's Conditioning Balm, and it can be purhased in the beauty salon of a Walmart Super Center. A big vat is $40 for 38 fluid ounces. You can buy smaller tubes for around $20. I buy the big vat. I lean to one side and then the other to reach fairly high up with the conditioner application and yet do not touch my scalp skin with the conditioner whatsoever.

I also recommend washing pillowcases, rotating which side, so that most of the time I'm on a fresh, clean pillowcase. Every single time I wash my hair whether full or scalp wash, I also wash my detangling comb. I use my shampoo, a nail scrub brush, and some warm water and scrub the teeth of the comb clean. I do not allow hair to reside in brushes or combs. I clean the extra hair out, each time. And any of my brushes, such as Boar Bristle Brushes, I keep very clean by storing them in drawers and not on shelves or sink side.

I hope that what I've posted is of some help, somehow.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Do people in this thread know how to oil their hair? There are articles about how to do this. Some of the replies in this thread lead me to wonder that some folks are using too much or not applying properly.

Here's how I oil. I never oil scalp skin as sebum does all the work needed for that related hair.

I ONLY oil the length. That's it. I take a teensy, weensy bit of oil under my fingernail, scraped off the top of the vat of Coconut Oil that I purchase that is made by Spectrum Naturals, and "unrefined" and made specifically for use on hair and skin. This is different from the Coconut Oil one might find in salad dressing or oils section of a grocery store. For one, it's solid, and should be stored in the refrigerator.

So that bit I take up with my fingernail (and I do not have long fingernails at all. I hate long fingernails, in fact. I can't do anything when I have had them, and I make oodles of typos when I have long nails.) and I smear that tidbit on the palm of one hand. Then I rub m palms together, and the friction of rubbing the palms together melts the coconut oil sufficiently. If you have too much, one can pat the palms on a paper towel.

I actually make sure FIRST that hair is completely air dried and fully detangled very well before oiling. Then I take my hands, place on either side of the hair length and downstroke all the way to the ends. I usually lean to one side then the other, bringing all the hair to that side, and oil as described. THEN I polish the hair with a Boar Bristle Brush. Again, I first detangle the length with my wide toothed comb, then I BBB. If I encounter a tangle, I cease BBBing for a moment and take the tangle out with my fingers and then smooth the hair with the detangling wide tooth comb, then resume BBBing. It takes me perhaps around 30 minutes to polish my hair, often switching back and forth between a BBB and the detangling comb.

Those who are curly haired likely have to work with the hair while it's wet and oil while wet. They use various mechanisms such as spritzing the wet hair with the oil.

It may help to know that Jojoba Oil most closely mimics human Sebum. The best Jojoba Oil is made by HobaCare. Oil should be very clear, translucent. Jojoba Oil should be a kind of golden hue as well. If it's muddy or murky, do NOT buy it!! It's not high quality Jojoba Oil.
http://www.jojobacompany.com/default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

The best Coconut Oil is by Spectrum Naturals. This is under the area of BODY CARE on their website, and the label states "for use on hair and skin". Here is more information.
http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=205

For those sensitive to aroma, this Coconut Oil does not have any aroma and NO additives to pump up the aroma.

All carrier oils, generally an oil not purposefully intending to have an scent (scented oils are known as essential oils as these derive from the distillation of the plant, capturing the "essence" of the plant, the oil itself.)

I hope this further helps somehow,
heidi w.

[Sundial]

Not a direct contribution to your question about oiling, but I'm just dropping a note to make a suggestion. Have you tried scalp washing? Afterall, it's only your scalp that needs that shampooing with that product so you don't have to subject your length to the same treatment. Perhaps that will stop aggravating your problem with dryness and you won't need to resort to oiling if you don't want to.

[ktani]

In spite of marketing, jojoba oil is still a liquid plant wax, it is not recommended for any ingestion, and it can cause skin issues,
http://www.drugs.com/npp/jojoba.html
"Case reports of contact dermatitis, ... exist for jojoba oil.

Jojoba oil is 14% erucic acid, a causative factor in myocardial fibrosis. ... no direct relationship ... established between this compound and jojoba toxicity in humans, jojoba should not be ingested in any form. 19 (http://www.drugs.com/npp/jojoba.html#ref19) , 31 (http://www.drugs.com/npp/jojoba.html#ref31)"

There is also more than one satisfactory method of oiling hair. ETA: It can be done on damp hair and finger combed in too. That is primarily how I do it (finger combing as I use neither a comb or brush). I agree that the amount used is key and with mineral oil/baby oil I have found less is more because it spreads so easily for me, much easier than any vegetable oil or jojoba oil.

ETA:2 My hair is "detangled" before I oil, as following shampooing, I have no tangles, even with uncatnipped hair. That is down to my shampoo, Sunsilk Lively Blonde and my hair being in excellent condition, with regular catnip tea treatments.

[heidi w.]

Once again, I almost never advise putting oil directly on scalp skin. I advocate oiling hair length ONLY. If you want to apply any oil, carrier or essential oil, to skin itself, it is wise to conduct a skin patch test to ensure no rashes or allergies.

Hobacare Jojoba Oil website offers information on how they derive and prepare their oil. It can be helpful information.

Contact dermatitus is a potential outcome anytime one puts something on the skin that is not tested. One cannot be too careful.

Yes, there are other oiling methods, or rather, choices of oil.

ETA: On what is Contact Dermatitus?
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/contact_dermatitis/article_em.htm
essentially a rash or allergic reaction to an application of something on the skin.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

In spite of marketing, jojoba oil is still a liquid plant wax, it is not recommended for any ingestion, and it can cause skin issues,
http://www.drugs.com/npp/jojoba.html
"Case reports of contact dermatitis, ... exist for jojoba oil.

Jojoba oil is 14% erucic acid, a causative factor in myocardial fibrosis. ... no direct relationship ... established between this compound and jojoba toxicity in humans, jojoba should not be ingested in any form. 19 (http://www.drugs.com/npp/jojoba.html#ref19) , 31 (http://www.drugs.com/npp/jojoba.html#ref31)"

There is also more than one satisfactory method of oiling hair. ETA: It can be done on damp hair and finger combed in too. That is primarily how I do it (finger combing as I use neither a comb or brush). I agree that the amount used is key and with mineral oil/baby oil I have found less is more because it spreads so easily for me, much easier than any vegetable oil or jojoba oil.

ETA:2 My hair is "detangled" before I oil, as following shampooing, I have no tangles, even with uncatnipped hair. That is down to my shampoo, Sunsilk Lively Blonde and my hair being in excellent condition, with regular catnip tea treatments.

Do not ingest (do not eat/swallow) carrier nor essential oils. Big no-no.

It's not food.

heidi w.

[ktani]

I do not oil my scalp. I have no need to do that. I used to apply conditioner there because my hair close to my scalp needed conditioning too. I use catnip tea all over my hair and scalp and my scalp loves it. It is a specific for scalp irritation. I finger comb the baby oil on my top hair and some of it may get on my scalp but it has not been an issue so far. ETA: The last 2 times I have used it, the baby oil has been on uncatnipped hair.

I do not ingest baby oil and would not. However, USP/BP mineral oil is sold for use as a laxative, unfragranced.

ETA:2 Contact dermatitis can be an allergic reaction or an irritation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001872/
"Contact dermatitis is an inflammation of the skin caused by direct contact with an irritating or allergy-causing substance (irritant or allergen)."

ETA:3 I have often recommended patch testing ingredients one has not used before, especially the spices for honey lightening, after several reports of problems using them, without that being done first. I have also recommended that for catnip, especially after someone got an itchy rash from it without patch testing it first.

ETA:4 One problem with patch testing is that it cannot account for amounts used. Cinnamon for example has been reported to be fine in a patch test, yet when overused, it caused major irritation. Another problem is that the scalp can be more sensitive than the skin used for patch testing (mine is). While any new product or ingredient in my opinion, should be patch tested anyway, many people do not bother. I have been guilty of that too. Still, I think that it is better to do that first, than not do it.

[SlightlySoprano]

I generally do wash JUST my scalp and not my length, but my shampoo requires 5 minutes on the head, so after 5 minutes it has traveled down the hair shaft and even with oil on my hair it dries it out.

I NEVER ever put oil on my scalp. As Heidi said, my SD would only be greatly aggravated by it. Painful. Itchy. *shudders*

I desperately want to stretch out my washes but I'm not sure I can, since by day 3 my scalp is a grease pit.

I just want my length to stay moisturized. It's crazy that my scalp can look like a grease pit while the rest of my hair looks like straw. :confused: