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Kitsu
February 23rd, 2012, 06:55 PM
My friend wants to grow her hair out, but she has really abused it with dyes, Irons the works, it's really fine, dry and tapers quite a lot.

I'm trying to get her to join here so she can be enlightened. She wants to try henna instead of chem dyes (good start right?) She really enjoys the coconut oil that I gave her as a gift.

But she thinks that she has killed her hair to much to ever be a long hair and insists that Ironing her hair is the only way to get it to look nice. She is currently at shoulder length and growing out her bangs which are chin length.

I guess what I'm asking is what would be a good style for her so that she can feel pretty without ironing her hair? I've offered to fishtail braid her hair for her tomorrow as we are going for lunch, but what would be a good and quick thing for her to try herself?

danceri110
February 23rd, 2012, 06:59 PM
rag/pin curls maybe? Or a peacock twist?

Anje
February 23rd, 2012, 07:03 PM
Honestly, henna's a big commitment, and I only would recommend it to people who complain that red dye isn't sufficiently permanent.

Does she know that heat (say, above the boiling point of water) is universally bad for hair? Some people have this notion that flat ironing seals good stuff in. Which is wrong, but a popular tack for the flat iron manufacturers to take, all the same.

spidermom
February 23rd, 2012, 07:05 PM
She may be right that her hair is so abused it won't grow long, but if she starts trimming away the damaged hair and protects the new hair, eventually all the damage will be gone and her new hair will have more potential for growing long.

Around shoulder length, I liked the french twist and the peacock twist.

Kitsu
February 23rd, 2012, 07:06 PM
Now I know what that hair do is I never knew it was called a peacock twist. :3

She might go for rag curls actually. She tried the sock bun to make curls and she only got one cute little ringlet out of it due to lack of length. on the plus side it did stay all day ^^

Kitsu
February 23rd, 2012, 07:13 PM
Honestly, henna's a big commitment, and I only would recommend it to people who complain that red dye isn't sufficiently permanent.

Does she know that heat (say, above the boiling point of water) is universally bad for hair? Some people have this notion that flat ironing seals good stuff in. Which is wrong, but a popular tack for the flat iron manufacturers to take, all the same.

I told her that, but if she doesn't henna it she will Box dye it again as her roots are "bugging her" though they do show her hair is actually growing still ^^

I've told her its bad, she was going to iron it tomorrow until I offered to braid it. It's the instant fix "of it looks ok now" that she likes.


She may be right that her hair is so abused it won't grow long, but if she starts trimming away the damaged hair and protects the new hair, eventually all the damage will be gone and her new hair will have more potential for growing long.

As long as she does ask me to do it. I'm too scared to S&D my own hair let alone trim someone elses :S

IndigoOptimist
February 23rd, 2012, 07:18 PM
Some people have this notion that flat ironing seals good stuff in. Which is wrong, but a popular tack for the flat iron manufacturers to take, all the same.

There's a girl in my college class who SCREAMS about how good it is to straighten your hair... Her hair looks so dry and brittle, but she blames it ALL on dying and bleaching :hmm:

OP: If you friend stops using irons she will probably find that she likes how her hair is, once it's recovering/recovered from the heat damage. She just needs to stop for a while and try to repair some of the damage ;)

RapunzelKat
February 23rd, 2012, 07:24 PM
There is an article in the Articles section that has a rather shocking picture of what flat ironing/heat treatment does to the hair follicle on a microscopic level, perhaps you could show her that?

I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of it but it was one of the damaged-hair ones I believe. Perhaps someone will come along whose memory is better than mine... :o

I definitely second teaching her a few fun styles, too. That makes growing out much more fun ;)

Kitsu
February 23rd, 2012, 07:32 PM
There is an article in the Articles section that has a rather shocking picture of what flat ironing/heat treatment does to the hair follicle on a microscopic level, perhaps you could show her that?

I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of it but it was one of the damaged-hair ones I believe. Perhaps someone will come along whose memory is better than mine... :o

I definitely second teaching her a few fun styles, too. That makes growing out much more fun ;)

Science is always a good thing to have on your side! I'll see if i can find it to show her in the morning :3

Tisiloves
February 23rd, 2012, 07:35 PM
Damaged Hair: Understanding, Preventing & Rehabilitating, by the lovely Nightshade:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79

RapunzelKat
February 23rd, 2012, 07:38 PM
Damaged Hair: Understanding, Preventing & Rehabilitating, by the lovely Nightshade:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79


Yup, that's the one I meant, thank you Tisiloves! Arrgh, those pictures! :bigeyes:

Tisiloves
February 23rd, 2012, 07:57 PM
Yup, that's the one I meant, thank you Tisiloves! Arrgh, those pictures!

You're welcome. Those pics made me even sorrier about deciding to get a perm :(

dulce
February 23rd, 2012, 08:14 PM
If you don't believe dye damages hair I will show a before[3 1/2 years ago,no it's not a bad perm,just dye damage] of me and now with my long natural hair colour with NO heated appliances[no curling iron,no flat iron,no hot blowdryer,no hot curlers etc.] and no chemicals,just lots of conditioner..Show your friend .http://http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/chicaaa1/long%20hair/th_DSCF0818-1.jpg (http://s1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/chicaaa1/long%20hair/?action=view&current=DSCF0818-1.jpg)

dulce
February 23rd, 2012, 08:16 PM
Today with my http://http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/chicaaa1/long%20hair/th_DSC01431.jpg (http://http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/chicaaa1/long%20hair/th_DSC01431.jpg)long hair and no more damaging practises

dulce
February 23rd, 2012, 08:18 PM
Both pics are clickeable for a bigger pic,notice all the little frizzy broken hairs in my short hair.Again ,not a perm but dye damage!!

dulce
February 23rd, 2012, 08:20 PM
My long hair is my natural gray colour ,I refuse to colour in any way or dye anymore!!

annamoonfairy
February 23rd, 2012, 08:24 PM
If her choice is to flat iron style then you may offer her suggestions on heat protecting products.

dulce
February 23rd, 2012, 08:31 PM
I was stupid enough to continue to dye as I grew my hair but stopped completely once it was shoulder length, and continued to grow with no more dye or damaging hair practises.If you stop what's damaging your hair it does recover ,stops breaking and grows long.I'm at waist,maybe a bit past now ,with some dye in my tips ,but with lots of conditioner and good care even my old damaged dyed ends are healthy now.Flat irons heat up to over 400 degrees,you are not sealing in /protecting your hair you are frying it! I did use a flat iron with a protective spray several years ago when much shorter, but over time saw my hair get very damaged.

dulce
February 23rd, 2012, 08:35 PM
Heat protective sprays help somewhat, but from my personal hair experience do not prevent long term damage.

khrystyne572
February 24th, 2012, 01:13 AM
So what are the options for people with SEVERELY damaged hair from flat irons. I mean, of course they should stop using them, but what if you have extremely course heavy wavy hair that is also damaged?

And what if your texture of hair is really coarse and thick and wavy and really only looks polished and neat when it's smoothed some way? Are there certain styles or cuts that are better for this kind of hair or are we doomed to updos for ever?
REALLY curious how someone gets off a flatiron and leads a normal life. ( semi-kidding)

HintOfMint
February 24th, 2012, 01:50 AM
So what are the options for people with SEVERELY damaged hair from flat irons. I mean, of course they should stop using them, but what if you have extremely course heavy wavy hair that is also damaged?

And what if your texture of hair is really coarse and thick and wavy and really only looks polished and neat when it's smoothed some way? Are there certain styles or cuts that are better for this kind of hair or are we doomed to updos for ever?
REALLY curious how someone gets off a flatiron and leads a normal life. ( semi-kidding)

Honestly, I had really heat damaged long hair for a while and when I stopped using heat, it looked pretty terrible, so I cut it off to my collarbone.

The upside is that when you grow out undamaged thick, coarse and wavy hair, it looks quite lovely. It takes length to weigh it down a bit, and with layers, the waves lay nicely. Always use a bit of product after you wash it, whether it's oil or styling cream, and you're good to go. I finally grew out my hair to just above my tailbone and I get compliments on it regularly. And yes, I wear my hair down often.

If you *really* don't like your texture, there are non-heat ways to style it, whether it's caruso rollers (easily the fastest), or hair wrapping (overnight). But working with your texture with a little product is easier, and it gets better the longer it is. PS, I forgot to mention damp-bunning.

|Xei
February 24th, 2012, 02:43 AM
I'm also putting in a vote for teaching your friend some cute up-styles or braids. If she sees less of the damage, then she's less likely to reach for the flat iron. And, who knows? Maybe she'll grow to become a super fan of putting her hair up ;)

Littlewing13
February 24th, 2012, 03:02 AM
For me, I used to colour/straighten my hair every day. It was bleached & fried.
My first step was a switch from bleach to lightening tint. It stopped snapping, but was still dry.

Then I gave up the iron. If you get a good hairdryer (I use a parlux 3800eco ionic) & practise technique you can get your hair pretty straight (& get some nice body too). Better a blowfrier than an iron IMO. Even then use drier sparingly if possible. I found it helpful to wear hair in a ponytail as soon as it was long enough every day I wasn't going anywhere special. Keeping it up keeps it out of the way, stops you thinking about it & damaging it.

Then stopped colouring & have been learning to love my natural colour.

Now that I've been frequenting LHC I've discovered henna/cassia gloss which makes my hair feel amazing with little colour change, I CO most days & oil. Huge difference to what it was in the beginning! Still a while to go now but these steps have allowed me to avoid cutting off much of the damage & I'm nearly at a length that I wouldn't even need to style it to wear it out.

Hope that helps?

lapushka
February 24th, 2012, 09:58 AM
The upside is that when you grow out undamaged thick, coarse and wavy hair, it looks quite lovely. It takes length to weigh it down a bit, and with layers, the waves lay nicely. Always use a bit of product after you wash it, whether it's oil or styling cream, and you're good to go.

Length is indeed what you need for the waves to start looking good without having to resort to heat styling. I used to need to have my hair heat styled until it hit shoulder length / APL. Then it started to look okay for the waves to be there and I could start to accept my texture, which ultimately plays a huge part in giving up the heat styling.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 01:25 PM
I have had curly hair all my life and hated it!!I experimented with all kinds of things all my life to change it's texture.Then in my 50's stopped dyeing,grew it back long and accepted my curls and frizz.I decided that I could never have the sleek shiny straight hair of my dreams without tons of damage,expense and wasted time so I'd go for the best my natural hair could be.I discovered 'THE CURLY GIRL HAND BOOK"and changed how I viewed my hair and how I treated it.And am finally happy.All I can say it I discovered freedom.Accept what you have,learn to work with it to make it the healthiest it can be is my advice.I think we run into problems if we can't do that.Also as you age ,hair changes for many ,it becomes thinner and more fragile for a lot of women[not all though] after menopause due to estrogen loss.Then it becomes even more important how you treat your hair.When younger you can get away with a lot more but it's still easier to work with your hair rather than against it,trying to always change it into something it is not .Wish I'd learned this 30 years ago!

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 01:29 PM
Ironically as my hair grew without all the damaging hair practises I'd done before ,I have less frizz and my curls softened with the extra length weight.I still don't have stick straight never frizzy hair but it's a bit closer to to the type of hair I really like now.

heidi w.
February 24th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Sounds as though someone is a slave to fashion ETA: AND hasn't accepted the nature of their hair.
heidi w.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 01:40 PM
Someone with thick coarse really wavy hair?When I first grew out from my pixie I kept dyeing it till it reached just past shoulders and kept it layered till APL,no cute bob for me ,it's too curly when shorter and requires a flat iron daily for me so that's out.Once it got past APL started growing out my layers .I found keeping my layers and accepting the curls as I grew it out to be the most helpful for me..Once much longer I didn't need the layers anymore.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 01:43 PM
Heidi has a very good point in my opinion.

mzBANGBANG
February 24th, 2012, 02:05 PM
What about trying foam rollers instead? Or she could let go of the flat iron gradually. I switched to blow drying my hair straight because I can control which temperature I use and the air's intensity. I've found I like my hair blow-dried straight a lot more than what the flat iron does because it feels so much softer. I run a round BBB through my hair while drying it on medium with some fancy de-ionization switch (need to do my research on that). If she is already drying her hair with a blow-dryer, then it's cutting out half of her normal heat usage.

HintOfMint
February 24th, 2012, 02:07 PM
Sounds as though someone is a slave to fashion ETA: AND hasn't accepted the nature of their hair.
heidi w.

This is exceedingly rude, presumptuous and holier-than-thou. Why should you judge someone who had some fun with their hair and found themselves in an awkward spot as they try to grow it out? As if you've never had a vain concern in your life. And you edited your answer to add another condescending remark.

Grow some empathy.

mzBANGBANG
February 24th, 2012, 02:13 PM
Maybe if she takes a step toward simply paying more attention she will notice improvement. When I dry my hair, I use an anti-frizz serum, and often a leave-in conditioner. It noticeably tames hair. You don't have to go 100% to see improvement (I did for about a month and found I was unhappy with my hair because I grew it out so I could play with it!). Also, adding a heat protectant will help with *some* of the damage. Personally, I took a month off of heat usage in general just to give my hair a break and it seemed like that was all it really needed. Now, I still fight with split ends, but the rest of my hair is in great condition.

I know a lot of the things I mention are absolute no-no's to many long hair gods and goddesses here (and their hair is stunning, they're doing it right!), but you have to do what is good for you, too. Personally, I'm not patient enough to go 100% but I have noticed drastic improvement in simply switching up a few things.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 02:17 PM
I don't think Heidi was rude and didn't read that in her comment.I spent my youth going after a hair dream[sleek straight hair has been the fashion standards for so many years now] and I finally learned to say no to it all at an older age.I also gave my experience to hopefully save this young girl wasted years,expense and hair damage.All hair can be beautiful and life and your hair becomes so much easier when you go with it not against it.She has my empathy because I've been in her shoes and I know how much effort and frustration there is when you fight your hair..

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 02:27 PM
So I also was a slave to fashion sadly as well as the other girl and I applaude Heidi's honesty,though it might be best for the friend to not actually say this right now to her , but just to encourage her if she's unhappy and really wants to change.That curly girl handbook is a great way to start if her friend thinks she is really ready for a change.If she is flat ironing she is still mentally fighting her waves and curls.

Ocelan
February 24th, 2012, 02:52 PM
I really used to be a fashion victim too I guess, right until very recently. I do already have stick straight hair so no fashion slaving there thankfully, but what I was going with the flow was dyeing my hair.
You see, I'm one of those metal girls or even somewhat goth, you might say. And often the unwritten rule is that you have to dye your hair dark or preferably black to look the right way. I guess that's why I haven't really been able to embrace my true lighter color brown even though it also looks very good on me. Now I've decided that I can be dark and mysterious even with my real haircolor, since that's who I am and I can bring up my preferences in some other things than my hair color.

So I didn't see Heidi's comment as rude either. If I were a teen, I would have taken it so, cos that's what I did when I was younger, so I understand that some who are against her thoughts might understand it in a wrong way, but I doubt it was meant as that.

HintOfMint
February 24th, 2012, 02:54 PM
I don't think Heidi was rude and didn't read that in her comment.I spent my youth going after a hair dream[sleek straight hair has been the fashion standards for so many years now] and I finally learned to say no to it all at an older age.I also gave my experience to hopefully save this young girl wasted years,expense and hair damage.All hair can be beautiful and life and your hair becomes so much easier when you go with it not against it.She has my empathy because I've been in her shoes and I know how much effort and frustration there is when you fight your hair..


So I also was a slave to fashion sadly as well as the other girl and I applaude Heidi's honesty,though it might be best for the friend to not actually say this right now to her , but just to encourage her if she's unhappy and really wants to change.That curly girl handbook is a great way to start if her friend thinks she is really ready for a change.If she is flat ironing she is still mentally fighting her waves and curls.

Calling someone a "slave to fashion" is an insult. Point blank. No room for compassion. She immediately thought that because she dyed her hair and cut it in a style that needs upkeep that she was doing it because she was an insecure mindless drone who only does what the fashion industry and society tells her. I'm sorry you look back at your past experience and felt this was the case for you, but it very well may not be the case for her.

I played with having short hair for a while, and I have a round face. Translation: it took a LOT of styling to work it, and yes it only really worked with straight hair. I was one of the few girls in my school with hair that short, but I wanted the look. It did not make me a slave to fashion, it was something I liked. I am no more enlightened now with long hair in my natural texture than I was with short styled hair. Growing it out was a pain and my vanity took a hit in that period. It was not pleasant and I understand people going through that.

Calling someone a slave to anything is no better than calling someone a "dirty hippie" for growing out long hair and using natural products or washing less often than convention dictates.

If she had just asked her to embrace her texture without some snotty presumption as to her taste and character, then maybe I would see that she's not rude and just giving some decent advice. But in light of her slave to fashion comment, that is simply not the case. Honest, my foot, some things should be kept to oneself.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 02:55 PM
I have a question,why must us women all have to have our hair have look polished and neat?I think Taylor Smith's[singer] curls are so cute and feminine and you can still put your natural long curls in a french twist,french braid,lazywrap bun[or other bun] if needed up for work.As an oldster I have become rebellious now ,I no longer follow fashion and yes ,I wear white any time of the year even after Labour day!I really resent all the constantly changing beauty /fashion industry mandates that rule our clothing colours/styles for seasons and in our lives ,all in the guise of making them money.Sorry for the rant but I honestly feel we women have been sold a bill of goods by them.And I resent being manipulated by them.I guess that's what old age does to you.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 03:02 PM
Hint of mint,that is my opinion,you have a different one and you are entitled to your own opinion,but they are only opinions afterall.Neither is right or wrong .We all have different opinions.'nuff said.

Kitsu
February 24th, 2012, 03:13 PM
I saw her today with natural hair and she does have a lot of curl, it was really cute. But she said it looked a mess. She's not to well at the moment so I'll leave off with talking to her about hair until she feels better.

HintOfMint
February 24th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Hint of mint,that is my opinion,you have a different one and you are entitled to your own opinion,but they are only opinions afterall.Neither is right or wrong .We all have different opinions.'nuff said.

I call poor manners as I see them, opinions have nothing to do with it.

khrystyne572
February 24th, 2012, 03:16 PM
RE: the polished and sleek comment-
I think it really depends on your age and the stage of your life. For example, if you are a 40 year old woman working as a nurse, it's easy to put your hair in a french braid, don your scrubs and look professional and clean. However if you work in a corporate environment ( pantyhose and heels) or are in high school, or other situations where you are judged on your appearances, it can be socially difficult to just let your frizz fly in the wind. Not fair of course, but hey, society is what it is.

I don't think people who use flatirons are slaves to fashion, - in fact the people I know who use them are pretty much jeans and t-shirt casual sorts. I think they use them solely to keep outrageously unmanageable hair presentable because there hasn't been anything else invented to tame crazy hair.

HintOfMint
February 24th, 2012, 03:19 PM
I saw her today with natural hair and she does have a lot of curl, it was really cute. But she said it looked a mess. She's not to well at the moment so I'll leave off with talking to her about hair until she feels better.

Good for her! She'll come around once she feels better.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 03:28 PM
Again,'nuff said.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 03:29 PM
Hint of mint,again,'nuff said.It's done.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 03:33 PM
If you bought that Curly girl handbook[available in many book stores] and showed it to her once she felt better[if you feel she might really be ready for a change?]It might help.Hope she feels better soon, either way.

Kitsu
February 24th, 2012, 03:41 PM
I'll see if i can find it on Amazon, I could get it her as a feel better gift ^^

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 03:42 PM
Sorry to duplicate the nuff said comment,forgot to clarify and was already thinking of my next post and forgot to just add on and just did a second comment without really thinking,and after seeing the 2 comments couldn't figure how to delete the first comment.So Hint of mint,please don't be offended by the 2 nuff said comments. It was not meant to be offensive to you .I just wanted to say[should have been once] that there was no point in debating that anymore.

dulce
February 24th, 2012, 05:27 PM
Went and looked at the book,the title is "Curly girl the handbook "by Lorraine Massey with Michele Bender.The book includes a great dvd also.

Kitsu
March 14th, 2012, 05:39 PM
just reporting in on my friend

She has not straightened her hair for over a week. She has some cute tight curls coming through and she's stated to dilute her shampoo and use more conditioner :3

I'll make a longhair out of her yet ^^

RapunzelKat
March 14th, 2012, 06:18 PM
Hooray for long-hair enabling! :D I'm sure she will love her healthy, natural hair. :happydance:

Kitsu
March 15th, 2012, 05:27 PM
next stop hair sticks!