Would you cut?

[pogo0685]

I mostly lurk on here, but I am having serious doubts about my hair the last few weeks. I decided to stop using henna on my hair in July of 2010, so I have not had any henna or color since then, so my hair is very noticeably 2 different colors, my husband says its light brown and brown (I think dirty blond and red but whatever), I have been looking at the condition of my hair that had henna, the bottom 6-8 inches maybe a bit more of my hair and its in horrible condition, I oil it, I only wash once a week, wear it up in braids or a hair stick almost every day to try and preserve it, dont use heat styling, dont use products on it and its still just horrible, almost every strand has split ends, I did a S&D mission for 5 hours yesterday and only got half of my hair done, today when I looked at the hair I had done there are hundreds more! I want to cut it, I want to cut all of the non virgin hair off, this would leave me at somewhere between a bob and shoulder length but it would be 100% virgin hair. A bob might not even get all the henna hair out, im not even sure. But anyway its very irritating to me because I really want long hair but its in such horrible condition I wonder if I would be better starting over. Even the hair that is not split at the bottom, from where my virgin hair meets the henna part you can see the difference, like my virgin hair is thick then it slims down to almost non existent thread looking hair right where the red starts. I can try to get some pictures when my husband gets home but he is NO help at all because he thinks I should just leave it alone and not worry and it will grow like his, well his hair is completely different from mine, I have wavy thin hair and he has strait thick hair that grows like a weed, my barely grows at all. I have 7-7 1/2 inches of virgin growth in 19 months. So very long story short what would you do? Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

[linnepinne]

The decision is up to you really :)

But I have chopped off huge amounts of damage two times in my life, once after henna, and once after an old perm that had damaged my hair beyond belief. For me, both times was like a relief. I had a fresh start. BUT back in those days I did not have long hair as a goal. So it's hard to give advice, but I would say if you really feel like you need a fresh start, and you don't mind trying something new and a bit shorter fo a while, I think you should go for it!

[Bunnysaur]

I'd say that if you can't repair the damage (and you really can't) then you should probably just cut it off. It'll just keep looking worse and worse as time goes by, and you'll have to cut the damage out eventually.

[Ocelan]

Do the whole hennaed lengths of hair have lots of split ends? If the split ends are mainly in the very bottom, I'd first try cutting some off the bottom and see if it helps. Then if it doesn't help, I'd cut the rest. I always think cutting first less and then more is better atleast in this case when growing hair is the goal.

[Madora]

Yes, trimming away the damage would be the most effective way to return to healthy hair.

After the trim, all you need to do is give it plenty of tlc and stay away from anything that is not hair healthy (i.e. blow frying, hot curlers, straighteners/chemicals).

Good luck!

[ladyfey]

I did exactly that, my hair was at knee and I grew out the natural a bit and chopped it to a bob. I think it was the right decision for me, it is now completely natural and grown back to knee.

[PrairieRose]

It really depends on your preference. Will you mind having shorter hair but healthier? I am also growing out damage but at this point I would rather have the length. So I am slowly trimming off the damage. That's what works for me, but everyone is different! :)

[Amber_Maiden]

It's really up to you. I had severely damaged hair from chemical dying, and ended up cutting more than 13in off last year. I still had damage when I was finished, but I started S&Ding more frequently. I still get splits now, but I have managed to make my hair look and be healthy through S&Ding. It just takes work (and a lot of time).

[Covet]

I totally agree with Bunnysaur, I would cut off the damaged parts for a fresh start. The damaged hair is only going to look worse with time. As it is two different colours, cutting off the parts with henna on them would leave you with the virgin, brown hair and you can start growing your healthy hair from there, without the obvious red henna parts.

If I were you, I would do this because I think it would feel like a weight off my shoulders. I am in the same situation but my hair was bleached almost white, from black. I only have two inches of virgin hair at the root and I am dying to cut off the bleached lengths but my hair is way too short right now for me to be able the pull that off. However, your hair is long enough for a bob, so I think you should do it.

[xoxophelia]

I can tell you exactly what I would do because I have been doing it XD

My hair was pretty damaged. For me, I don't tend to get many split ends but it will just become lifeless and dull or frazzled. In addition I had layers. So, before I joined LHC I had done a major chop to get rid of a good chunk of the layers (from below BSL to just below shoulders). By the time I joined though, I started doing gradual trims of 1/2"-1".. that wasn't quite enough though so at one point I cut about 3" and then again not that long ago.

I didn't just cut it all off before because I really didn't want shorter than shoulder length hair.

If the hair is really bad on the ends, I would suggest an initial trim of at least 2" and no more than the shortest you would be OK with. Then continue with regular small trims.

Likewise, if you are willing to go shorter you could cut a bob that is a blunt cut since that would be easy to grow out. It would also be about shoulder length by summer :)

[lapushka]

I would slowly trim the damage off, doing tiny trims, then re-evaluating. Repeat until you're happy with your hair again.

[amandacv86]

I've never been in this situation, but you could just maintain it at your current length until all of the damage is cut out

[jojo]

do you have a recent photo? We are sometimes our worst critics, maybe you just need a good clarifying and DC? I dont mine 2 tone hair and even my natural colour is different on the ends.

[Anje]

A photo would help -- it's easy to be overly hard on one's own hair, after all.

But from what you describe, if I were in your position I would probably cut the damage off to a point where I could still gather my hair back. (I hate hair in my face, so the ability to ponytail is an important one to me, and it ensures that my hair is always longer than the "awkward stage.")

[pogo0685]

Thank you guys so much for your advice and encouragement! I knew this would be the place to go for help with this. I want to keep the length but I know its a lost cause at this point, I however also dont want to go as short as a bob.

linnepinne: I am sort of afraid to go as short as a bob, but I also hate the damage that I have.

Bunnysaur: I know I cant fix the split ends, I just wish my husband would understand that also, he swears if I just leave them alone it will all go away somehow.

Ocelan: its not just the ends, I wish it was, a lot of splits are at the end, but I also found a lot of splits 4-5 inches up from the ends. And my hair still has layers somehow so some of the "ends" are actually half way up my length.

Madora: I can say for sure I will NEVER dye, color or heat style my hair ever again, I started dying at 12 years old and am now 26 and just stopped 2 years ago, for the longest time I did not even know what my natural color was.

ladyfey: I wish I could get my hair to knee, how long did it take to get it all back (if you dont mind me asking)

PrairieRose: I want length and health lol, but I know right now I can only choose one and its such a hard decision!

Amber_Maiden: can I ask what length you started with? and what you ended up with? I have been between BSL and Waist for the last 5 YEARS trying to just trim a bit and get the ends better, then by the time its back to waist its horrible again and I go back another 3-4 inches, and this cycle has just repeated itself for so long now with no real results in length. Its got me pretty down.

Covet: In my perfect world this is what I want to do (minus the fact I am scared to go that short) but I know my husband will not be happy, he gets crabby everytime I want to trim or when I do oiling, or s&d and says its all a waste if I just leave it alone it will grow so I don't know how he will react when I tell him I want to chop off 8 inches. Well I know what hes going to say me:" I have decided I want to cut off all the henna hair" him:"why? me:"because its damaged and it looks bad and is full of split ends" him:"all this time you talk about wanting long hair, long hair this, long hair that, I want long hair and now your cutting off 8 inches of it? there is something wrong with you, your hair is not damaged, if you just leave it alone and let it grow it will be fine" me: "it is damaged, here look at the split ends *show him splits*" him: "I dont see anything, you wasted the last 5 years growing you hair to cut it all off".... thats kinda how I see it going lol

xoxophelia: I have been trying this for 5 years now, I get it to waist cut it, let it grow, cut it, let it grow a bit, cut it but its just not seeming to get any better and I think its because the hair itself is just damages, my virgin hair has never had any chemicals or heat styling put on it and the red hair has been through a lot and its just not strong enough to go through daily life anymore I guess.

I want to add my husband is a wonderful man, he just really does not understand my obsession with my hair, he has perfect hair and he doesn't get that not everyone is as lucky as he is. Although over the last few years I have learned to love my natural curls, and embrace that I don't have thick strait hair that I see as "perfect" I think I will be happier once all the damage is gone. So maybe I will just cut it back to say BSL and see how I feel, if that works for me ok, then if not I will go to APL and maintain there until all the henna is gone and its all virgin hair again. I would hate to go any shorter than that because then I cant put it up in a pony tail or bun to get it out of my way.

Thanks guys!

ps, he would however probably be a lot happier if I cut it and stop buying all the hair toys that I wont be able to use for a while... or dont use but they are REALLY pretty to look at!!!

[pogo0685]

I will try to get a picture tonight after my husband gets home from work, I think it looks ok when I make headband curls and stuff its just really dry and frizzy and the splits, I know how bad they are for the health of my hair, I know that they will just keep traveling up. I found one today that was 2 inches long of the shaft being split but the end was intact, it was crazy, how does that even happen?!? I will get a picture up tonight though for sure because it might help give some perspective...

[Covet]

Covet: In my perfect world this is what I want to do (minus the fact I am scared to go that short) but I know my husband will not be happy, he gets crabby everytime I want to trim or when I do oiling, or s&d and says its all a waste if I just leave it alone it will grow so I don't know how he will react when I tell him I want to chop off 8 inches. Well I know what hes going to say me:" I have decided I want to cut off all the henna hair" him:"why? me:"because its damaged and it looks bad and is full of split ends" him:"all this time you talk about wanting long hair, long hair this, long hair that, I want long hair and now your cutting off 8 inches of it? there is something wrong with you, your hair is not damaged, if you just leave it alone and let it grow it will be fine" me: "it is damaged, here look at the split ends *show him splits*" him: "I dont see anything, you wasted the last 5 years growing you hair to cut it all off".... thats kinda how I see it going lol

Aww that's a shame. Just remember that it's your hair and your husband (no one in fact) should be telling you what to do. If you do want to cut the damage off then it's what you want. It's your hair :) good luck, I hope whatever you do makes you happy :)

[Covet]

pogo0685, I'd always heard that henna was actually really conditioning and good for the hair. What did it do to you hair and do you know why? Was it over use maybe? I have no idea about it now because a friend was really recommending it but I'm having second thoughts.

[spidermom]

I'd probably go ahead and cut all at once, but it's perfectly acceptable to get regular small trims. In the end, you will accomplish the same thing either way.

[pogo0685]

Covet: I think its because I used it over chemical hair dye, lots of people on here use it with great results. I would not be afraid to use it if I were you. I only decided to stop using it because I was tired of the upkeep. Now I'm glad I have it almost out of my hair because I do like my natural color and I hated having roots. And washing henna out was a pain in the butt. When I started dying my hair I had blond hair, now its like a light brown color.

[LiveYourDreams]

If it were me I would cut all of the damage off. I spent the past three years s&d as well as getting small trims, but there were still so many split ends that I couldn't stand it. I ended up cutting it just above my shoulders and that was in October. It's growing so fast and is super healthy now! It was really hard to do it, but i'm glad I did, especially because I haven't found a single split end since. It's your hair though, and it depends on what you want. :)

[ladyfey]

I'm not sure how long it took me to get back to knee. My hair grows like a weed, but I didn't grow it right back out. I left it in a bob for a year. I gave it several big chops as it grew longer. It was above my waist 3 years ago and now it has been at knee for about a year. For me, natural hair is soooo much easier to take care of, it is thicker than it was before too.

[coneyisland]

Most of my hair is the same type as yours, and mine also is on the thinner side of the ii overall thickness classification.

I suggest cutting away the thinner damaged hair in a series of trims over time, but always keeping enough length to permit you to continue keeping your hair up and protected. In light of its being fairly thin and your wish for less complicated hair care routine, I suggest trimming the shorter layer(s) only as those ends catch up in their length, for making a single hemline. Finishing your trims with a single hemline would simplify your hair maintenance and let you enjoy your length at its fullest potential for thickness at any given time.

Does your hair like -cones? I use cone-laden products. I periodically clarify my hair and then load it back up with -cones, and I wear protective updos at nearly all times. Between haircuts I usually get about three years without my ends splitting.

Your climate may be a factor affecting your growth rate. Without hot water nor any heated hair implements (except perhaps for a warming cap designed for use with deep conditioning treatments), do your best to keep yourself and your scalp comfortably warm. Keeping your hair covered with considered choices in covers/wraps (Madora gives excellent guidance on this and everything else), with or without hats worn over them, will help to minimize the cumulative bleaching damage from sunshine and may also help to increase your growth rate.

Do let us know if you find your hair getting appreciably wavier after cutting, as that finding would draw other suggestions as to hair care products and handling routine.

[spidermom]

O.k., I've now taken the time to read over all the posts.
1) Everybody has hairs of every length because old hairs shed out and new hairs grow in every single day. There will never be a time when all the hairs are the same length.
2) You will never achieve perfection. I'm coming to grips with this recently. I've cut off so much length over the years, trying to get to the point where I don't get split ends any more. All the length that I have now has been grown since I joined LHC, and I really don't see how I could improve the condition of my hair more than I have. Still, every time I look at the ends and length, I can see split ends, some of them horrendous - the ends at the ends of my split ends are split! And I can find them as short as about shoulder length. So if you're trying to get to that perfect smooth place; give it up. There's no such of a thing.

[jacqueline101]

I'd keep search and destroying. I'd trim every so often too.

[danceri110]

If you're confident that the haircut will flatter you - cut it all off! A fresh start could be just what you need.
Another option is to cut to the shortest length that you can still put in an up-do, and wear it up ALL then time as you grow it, and eventually trim off the rest of the damage little by little

[redwoman]

I would cut off one inch. That way most of your splits would be gone. In another two months whack off another inch. In two more months another inch. By that time most of your damage would be gone (splits anyway) and you wouldn't have to give up your hair toys. I dyed my naturally red hair black one time and hated it. So I let the red grow out. It was hideous. A fat red stripe across the top of my head and the rest jet black. Awful, simply awful. But I kept taking off those inches one at a time and before I knew what happened, I had my hair back. Never again! You can do this. It just takes a little time.

[longcurlygirl<3]

I did exactly that, my hair was at knee and I grew out the natural a bit and chopped it to a bob. I think it was the right decision for me, it is now completely natural and grown back to knee.

How long did that take you? Wow from bob to knee :thudpile:

[turtlelover]

I'm not one of the those people that is afraid of an occasional big chop. I would cut, but that is me.

[annamoonfairy]

I would start with a trim and change hair products and give it a few days then see how it is looking.

[Artisticat]

I would slowly trim the damage off, doing tiny trims, then re-evaluating. Repeat until you're happy with your hair again.

I couldn't agree more! Ease into a bit. I made the mistake of visiting my hairdresser recently and it will take me 1 1/2 years to get back what she chopped and layered off in an instant.

Sometimes our hair looks worse to us than it it.

[holothuroidea]

Well since you said you want to cut it off, go a head and do what you want to do. :D

If you had an ingrown toenail or a toothache you'd get it fixed, why should your hair be any different? Your hair is a part of your body and just like anything else it's perfectly reasonable to want it to be healthy.

[cooklaezo13]

I was in a very similar situation a year ago. I cut off the damaged and hennaed hair and I have no regrets. If what you want to do is cut, then cut! It feels great to have all virgin healthy hair, even though it is short. The length will come in time. You can see pictures of my progress in my album.

[Deborah]

If it were my hair I'd do the big cut. It's always healthy, good hair that matters to me. I dislike damaged hair of any length, but long damaged hair looks even worse in my opinion.

[Alun]

pogo0685, I'd always heard that henna was actually really conditioning and good for the hair. What did it do to you hair and do you know why? Was it over use maybe? I have no idea about it now because a friend was really recommending it but I'm having second thoughts.

That's what I was wondering.


Covet: I think its because I used it over chemical hair dye, lots of people on here use it with great results. I would not be afraid to use it if I were you. I only decided to stop using it because I was tired of the upkeep. Now I'm glad I have it almost out of my hair because I do like my natural color and I hated having roots. And washing henna out was a pain in the butt. When I started dying my hair I had blond hair, now its like a light brown color.

Aha! Damage only occurs when you have used both synthetic dye and also a henna mix that has metal salts in it. Then you get an exothermic reaction (your hair gets fried in simple terms) and the damage is irreversible. This is entirely avoidable, but it's common to only find out the facts after the damage is done.

OTOH, synthetic dye can cause damage by itself, usually when reapplying over already dyed hair instead of having the roots done in a salon.

I've never used synthetic dye on my hair, and I have only used henna mixes that claim they only contain herbs (i.e. no metal salts). But then I'm a guy. Women are far more likely to have used synthetic dye, and if you have long hair it is there for a long time. The solution is to buy pure henna, and if necessary other herbs to get the colour you want, and mix them yourself, as only the metal salts will react with the synthetic dye.

[pogo0685]

My husband got home really late last night so I didnt get pictures til late but here they are, there is one from new years right after my last trim, and then a bright one from last night and a darker one from last night, none of them are good quality but husband was tired and didnt want to put a lot of effort into learning how to use my new camera (I dont even know how to use it)

And I did use pure henna, just over all the hair dye I dont think it worked out. I also played with the stuff I mixed it with, once I used ALL lemon juice and no water, my hair felt like straw for weeks after that.

As for hair products I am so scared of any chemicals at all that all I use on my hair is baking soda and vinegar for shampoo and conditioner (1 teaspoon baking soda in 12 oz water and 4 tablespoons vinegar in 12 oz water) i do that no more than once a week, and coconut oil. I dont use any conditioners or anything because I can not find anything that is pure. If anyone has any recomendations I would be more than happy to hear them though! I have found with this way of doing it I have got back a lot of the natural wave I thought was gone from my hair, when I was using shampoo my hair had parts with curls, parts without curls and I just think it looked crappy, at least this way I have some sort of wave pattern that is all over the head.
new years hair after trim:
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y306/fernl2008/hairjan12.jpg
darker hair picture, you can see the color change in this one, but its kinda dark to see anything else
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y306/fernl2008/hair0223.jpg
brighter picture from last night, cant see much though and hair is still about 5% damp from shower
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y306/fernl2008/hair0223-2.jpg

[SpinDance]

You definitely have fairy tail ends, and it looks also like a V-shaped hemline. Whether the hemline shape is intentional or not it certainly contributes to less hair farther down. You could certainly do a big chop to take all the old dye off, but really I think you can keep more length and just trim it off slower. Try taking from 1-3 inches off first. That will put you around or below BSL, then maintain there for a while. You may try going to a more blunt hemline, at least for a while, to see if that helps things to thicken up after while. It will take time to grow it out, as always. I've got about 3 or so more years to go to get the last of the dye out of my hair.

It looks like it's about long enough that when you wear it up only the bun part will show the dye, the head part is all your natural color.

I understand you are looking for natural, but some of us actually need things like conditioner. "Natural" things are chemicals, too, but that doesn't mean they are always good for you, your skin or your hair. Just saying.

[PixxieStix]

Were it me, I'd do a trim of a few inches, give it a few weeks to see how my hair felt and looked, and then evaluate if more needed to be trimmed. Damage stinks, and I'm sorry you are having a hard time with your hair, but it'll be alright. :) Your virgin growth looks great by the way.

[shawty]

WAIT! before you chop, consider this: perhaps the scissors you used for S&D weren't sharp enough and that's why the split ends returned. My advice would be to go to a salon (blasphemy, i know, but maybe called-for) or buy new haircutting scissors. Cut just 2 or 3 inches and see if that helps. If not, you can still chop later.

[pogo0685]

Fairy tail ends are NOT what I am going for and neither is the v shaped hemline, I keep cutting it blunt but it keeps growing out to this. And yep it is long enough that when its up in a bun only the bun has any color in it. And yes I know that some natural things are not always better (like rattlesnake venom, its natural but not exactly good for you) but I would rather stay away from things created and made in a lab. Maybe I will try some different oils and stuff like that and just do more moisture treatments than I am doing now. I only oil once a week and thats before I wash with lots and lots of coconut oil then I let it sit for 24-48 hours in a bun and then wash.

PixxieStix: awww thank you! :D


If I do a big chop I will go to a salon, if not I will go get another pair of scissors, the ones I use are pretty new - like 4 months old or so and have never cut anything but hair, but they are from walmart so I will go by Sallys and see what they have. Thanks!

[heidi w.]

Are you able to post a picture so we can see what you're describing? It's hard to offer an opinion or advice because we can't understand everything you're describing. Different people have a different relationship to your post based on their own experience. Two tones can actually be interesting in some cases. It all just depends.

Also, I have always advocated against applying Henna for a variety of reasons. However, I also know not a whole lot about Henna, so I tend to stay out of to henna or not discussions because I have nothing to offer, and the one caution I would offer is not very popular. People tell me I'm wrong, but then we have these stories, which sort of lean in the direction of me having a relevant point to keep in mind as one makes a decision to henna or not.

Anyway, if you have a photo I believe that would help people a whole lot to give you better advice.

heidi w.

[lapushka]

Are you able to post a picture so we can see what you're describing? It's hard to offer an opinion or advice because we can't understand everything you're describing.

Heidi, she just posted a couple pics a few posts ago. ;)

[holothuroidea]

Have you tried egg washes? If your hair likes it it will be much gentler than baking soda. Also beer will clean your hair gently, though that can get expensive if you want a naturally brewed variety.

Aloe juice can be really moisturizing for your hair if you use it right. (It's a humectant so it needs plenty of water to work).

I've also heard of people using coconut milk as a conditioner.

There are plenty of natural options besides baking soda and if I were you I would look into them. I use baking soda to clarify but I also use conditioner- If I never used conditioner baking soda would never ever touch my hair, it's just too drying.

I have used clay washes with some success, they are really good for my scalp. They are basic, too, like baking soda, so they also need a vinegar rinse but I found that it was not as drying as baking soda.

[Anje]

Given the pictures alone, along with the fact that you're going for a blunt hemline, I still wouldn't say you need to cut all the way up to a bob. For a drastic chop, I'd recommend getting it blunt-cut at arm pit level. That would take off the worst of the thin hair and splits, and would put you nearly a year ahead of where you would be if you got it bobbed. You'd still be able to wear it up, too, which would help prevent future damage

ETA: I'd say you almost certainly need some form of conditioner. At least for now while you're dealing with damage. At minimum, I'd suggest using an oil like coconut or olive or jojoba on the length. Just a drop or two after you wash it, for a bit of moisture. Also, make sure you mostly confine the baking soda to your scalp. It can be extremely hard on hair, and I'd say only the minority of people who try washing exclusively with baking soda and vinegar are able to stick with it for more than a year or two because it is drying. (There are a few people with epic hair who use it to great success, I'll agree. But I've seen most fail to get good results.)

[pogo0685]

holothuroidea: I will look into all these ideas... and I have my own chickens so eggs would be super easy to get! the clay one also really interests me, what kind of clay or should I just do a search on here?


Anje: I really had not thought about how drying the baking soda would be, I don't try to get it on my ends (I mix in a bottle, squirt in on top of my head, massage it in, rinse it out really well) but it probably is coating it pretty effectively that way so I will stop doing that for now and just work on trying to find another way to wash and I will start a bit of oil after washing and see if that helps.

And in the meantime I will start looking for a place to go to get it trimmed up professionally or buy better scissors and have hubby do it because he can do a blunt across cut with ease because he is the one who always trims my hair as it is, because I don't trust anyone...

And if no natural things seem to be working after a while I will search to find the most natural conditioners I can and see what works for me.

[holothuroidea]

holothuroidea: I will look into all these ideas... and I have my own chickens so eggs would be super easy to get! the clay one also really interests me, what kind of clay or should I just do a search on here?

I used the "Aztec" bentonite clay brand that is readily available at health food stores. I did a search here for clay washes when I did it but I couldn't find anything. I used it essentially like baking soda. The trick is to make sure that it's completely dissolved or it can be abrasive.

Hooray for chickens! You also don't have to worry about salmonella or anything, so that's... eggcelent. :D:D (sorry, had to)