how to deal with breakage

[Hollyfire3]

My hair, which i have just colored even though it was kinda damaged from past heat styling and very rough handling, now seems to be breaking off, maybe 1 in pieces here and there and very bad around my face, i know it is not the end of the world and there have been worse cases, but what is a way to at least save the hair and possibly stop it from breaking without having to cut it all off when it gets really bad? If anything, my hair is dry and slightly over proteined (stupid salon used a different DT than usual and it was VERY protein heavy...) so i do not think the breakage is from lack of protein. I am not african american and do not relax my hair or perm it is this helps (i am not being mean, i just know this sort of hair tends to be fragiler). I know cutting is the only way to remove damage, but my hair really isn't that bad and this could just be a case of too much protein, if this sounds like the case, could you please direct me to a good at home moisture treatment? Also, if i do the SMT for moisture, can i use mollasses instead of honey?

[ktani]

Just trim off the worst damage at the ends and s&d when needed. You can use molasses instead of honey - make sure to use a vinegar rinse to follow.

[Amber_Maiden]

Definitely trim off the damage- sounds like you need to do that.

[heidi w.]

A signal of too much protein on the hair can be sudden, and ALSO a lot of breakage of hair. Such as one can rake through the hair and experience a lot of hair bits in the hand.

If that is what is going on in fact, then I recommend getting stuff off the hair, IMMEDIATELY. Smearing with oil or conditioner won't help the problem in that case.

I would recommend clarifying as many as 2 times and hope for it to cease, and if it doesn't then progress to chelating after clarifying twice. But do not chelate without first trying clarifying.

It's important to know that in a given brand between a shampoo and conditioner in a specific brand, protein is included as part of the recipe for that brand's products. Protein imbalance can occur when we mix and match from different manufacturer/brand lines; it can occur if we add perhaps a leave-in; it can occur in the wake of a deep oil/protein treatment, such as VO5, which has a ton of protein in it.

In my case, I had this happen because I added in (years ago now) a leave-in that a hairdresser suggested, and my hair began immediately and suddenly breaking off in droves. I read the bottle and learned that for those with my hair type, I was to rinse the product out/off. Le Ooops! So back in the shower I climbed and rinsed all that crap out of my hair, and just as suddenly as it began, it ceased.

I hope this offers some help. Also, with hair coloring, changing hair texture such as perming, a professional hair dresser should perform a "strand test" regarding hair's health and ability to "take" the new application before proceeding on applying to all of the hair. Unfortunately, a lot of hairdressers skip this step, and people can get into all kinds of trouble. There are even tests for assessing protein that one can perform -- assessing whether protein is really needed or not. ETA: (They can also test "elasticity" of the hair which can be helpful to know; and can test porosity.) END ETA. A lot of stuff in hairdressing is actually chemical, and requires chemical knowledge, and a lot of this just isn't necessarily taught very clearly in hairdressing school.

ETA2: I would ALSO compose a letter informing the salon and the specific hairdresser of your outcome and problem and your eventual resolution because this hairdresser clearly needs more training if we have a protein overload problem in response to coloring the hair. The dresser needs to learn to do better next time and not send people home with hair falling off. That's a big no-no. END ETA2.

ETA3: I would not return to that salon ever again. END ETA3.
heidi w.

[ktani]

With your current history, if there is not too much product on your hair now, you can also try using a drop or so of mineral oil/baby oil on very damp ends of the areas, to help rehydrate them. If there is a lot of product on those areas, it will be less to no help.

[Hollyfire3]

A signal of too much protein on the hair can be sudden, and ALSO a lot of breakage of hair. Such as one can rake through the hair and experience a lot of hair bits in the hand.

If that is what is going on in fact, then I recommend getting stuff off the hair, IMMEDIATELY. Smearing with oil or conditioner won't help the problem in that case.

I would recommend clarifying as many as 2 times and hope for it to cease, and if it doesn't then progress to chelating after clarifying twice. But do not chelate without first trying clarifying.

It's important to know that in a given brand between a shampoo and conditioner in a specific brand, protein is included as part of the recipe for that brand's products. Protein imbalance can occur when we mix and match from different manufacturer/brand lines; it can occur if we add perhaps a leave-in; it can occur in the wake of a deep oil/protein treatment, such as VO5, which has a ton of protein in it.

In my case, I had this happen because I added in (years ago now) a leave-in that a hairdresser suggested, and my hair began immediately and suddenly breaking off in droves. I read the bottle and learned that for those with my hair type, I was to rinse the product out/off. Le Ooops! So back in the shower I climbed and rinsed all that crap out of my hair, and just as suddenly as it began, it ceased.

I hope this offers some help. Also, with hair coloring, changing hair texture such as perming, a professional hair dresser should perform a "strand test" regarding hair's health and ability to "take" the new application before proceeding on applying to all of the hair. Unfortunately, a lot of hairdressers skip this step, and people can get into all kinds of trouble. There are even tests for assessing protein that one can perform -- assessing whether protein is really needed or not. ETA: (They can also test "elasticity" of the hair which can be helpful to know; and can test porosity.) END ETA. A lot of stuff in hairdressing is actually chemical, and requires chemical knowledge, and a lot of this just isn't necessarily taught very clearly in hairdressing school.

ETA2: I would ALSO compose a letter informing the salon and the specific hairdresser of your outcome and problem and your eventual resolution because this hairdresser clearly needs more training if we have a protein overload problem in response to coloring the hair. The dresser needs to learn to do better next time and not send people home with hair falling off. That's a big no-no. END ETA2.

ETA3: I would not return to that salon ever again. END ETA3.
heidi w.


Yeah, none of those strand tests of any sort have ever been done on my hair, i already stopped having the salon stop cutting my hair (i was told my hair would not look good long and many other things) i only went in for color but the lady who normally does it was booked so some other lady "supposedly" used the same formulation (translation, she didn't even do it right!) the color is not dark enough and will wash out in a week i suppose (it already has some out with one wash) my hair is incrdibly protein sensitive right now, but i do not think these people (the ladies who have done my hair there in the past) even know what that means. I agree she should have done better, but also my hair is damaged to begin with, maybe it is my fault for wanting color? (or wanting good hair to begin with...:() I want to clarify to get this crap off, but since the color was done sunday, and i just washed yesterday, clarifying might take out too much color (but i am proably going to get a semi permanet and do that then color my hair myself from now on too expensive to do salon color and have bad hair from it! I mean really it is nearly 100 dollars to do my almost BSL hair and the color is not even right? come on!) I do not think the breakage is THAT bad yet, but i am worried it may become so, this is right now a case of weak hair that is prone to breakage as of now, althoug i did find some 1 in pieces earlier...i know i need a trim, i am getting one later this week (maybe 1/2 in or so off) at a different, much better salon that has trimmed my hair once and done better than the place i went for color used to over 3 yrs time!) but i also want my hair is the best possible condition before the trim, if only to avoid cutting off too much. Thank you for the help

[Hollyfire3]

With your current history, if there is not too much product on your hair now, you can also try using a drop or so of mineral oil/baby oil on very damp ends of the areas, to help rehydrate them. If there is a lot of product on those areas, it will be less to no help.

I will proably do this if i end up clarifying...which also looks like it is now on my to do list, sadly. Will an SMT be good after clarifying? and how much color would a good round (2 or 3 suds up in one wash) with a clarifying shampoo (suave clarifying shampoo, the blue stuff) take out? I will proably end up doing a semi permant in a few weeks when my hair is happier...i swear this is a never ending problem with no solution...(not the color or breakage, my hair in general)

[Hollyfire3]

I will, not to worry :)

[ktani]

I will proably do this if i end up clarifying...which also looks like it is now on my to do list, sadly. Will an SMT be good after clarifying? and how much color would a good round (2 or 3 suds up in one wash) with a clarifying shampoo (suave clarifying shampoo, the blue stuff) take out? I will proably end up doing a semi permant in a few weeks when my hair is happier...i swear this is a never ending problem with no solution...(not the color or breakage, my hair in general)

I know some people like it, however, Suave clarifying shampoo - the version I have seen, contains hydoxyethylcellulose - which leaves a residue of its own and builds-up. I would avoid any clarifying shampoo with that in it.

Shampoo itself does not remove colour. It is the water used. If the colour was not done properly that affects colour fade as well.

I honestly think from having read all of your threads on this, that part of the continuing problem is that you use too much product at one time, which causes dryness as it builds-up, which you then try to remedy with more product.

[Hollyfire3]

I know some people like it, however, Suave clarifying shampoo - the version I have seen, contains hydoxyethylcellulose - which leaves a residue of its own and builds-up. I would avoid any clarifying shampoo with that in it.

Shampoo itself does not remove colour. It is the water used. If the colour was not done properly that affects colour fade as well.

I honestly think from having read all of your threads on this, that part of the continuing problem is that you use too much product at one time, which causes dryness as it builds-up, which you then try to remedy with more product.


This is part of my problem, i know it and thank you for reconizing it. I think my best plan of attack would be to get stuff out of my hair, then try 1 (the SMT) DT and find a rountine and stick with it for at least a week (i tried this this week and the stuff i am using seems to be building up, my hair was oddly greasy after washing last night...i might go buy the netrogeuna clarifying shampoo like you suggested (i know shampoo does not take out color, but is this one harsh on color?) also, can you recomend a good (perfeably cone free) shampoo and conditioner that is balanced in protein and moisture? I need somewhere to start and i think that starting point should be finding somehting that actually works, i will even try a new mousse, i just need to revamp all of this because i am going in circles. I will try anythign, give up anything, even my newly colored hue, just to get all this fixed and dead once and for all. Please help me find a good, solid basic attack plan, i will put this behind me and fix it if it is the last thing i do!

[ktani]

This is part of my problem, i know it and thank you for reconizing it. I think my best plan of attack would be to get stuff out of my hair, then try 1 (the SMT) DT and find a rountine and stick with it for at least a week (i tried this this week and the stuff i am using seems to be building up, my hair was oddly greasy after washing last night...i might go buy the netrogeuna clarifying shampoo like you suggested (i know shampoo does not take out color, but is this one harsh on color?) also, can you recomend a good (perfeably cone free) shampoo and conditioner that is balanced in protein and moisture? I need somewhere to start and i think that starting point should be finding somehting that actually works, i will even try a new mousse, i just need to revamp all of this because i am going in circles. I will try anythign, give up anything, even my newly colored hue, just to get all this fixed and dead once and for all. Please help me find a good, solid basic attack plan, i will put this behind me and fix it if it is the last thing i do!

The Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo is fairly mild. It is not for every day use by any means.

I would not use a shampoo - any shampoo - for protein or moisture. I would choose one to clean your hair and not add build-up. You need one that does not overclean or underclean to use regularly.

One you can try is Aussie Aussome Volume shampoo. It works well with oil shampoo and does not build-up. Some shampoos can contain silicone and still not build-up.

All conditioners build-up on hair. Look for a light (runny) one. The V05 ones can be good for that.

You do not need to constantly add protein to hair. It has enough of its own. You do need not to "strip" protein from your hair by friction, by using coatings (herb, conditioner or oil) that keeps it lubricated and free of tangling stress. ETA: Adding protein can be beneficial after certain chemical services to temporarily only, replenish what was lost by chemical services. There are specific protein treatments for that like Apogee - used best on clarified hair and followed immediately by a moisturizing treatment. I do not think you need that done.

If you overuse anything, and I mean anything you put on your hair, there will be problems, especially if what you use can cause build-up.

[Hollyfire3]

The Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo is fairly mild. It is not for every day use by any means.

I would not use a shampoo - any shampoo - for protein or moisture. I would choose one to clean your hair and not add build-up. You need one that does not overclean or underclean to use regularly.

One you can try is Aussie Aussome Volume shampoo. It works well with oil shampoo and does not build-up. Some shampoos can contain silicone and still not build-up.

All conditioners build-up on hair. Look for a light (runny) one. The V05 ones can be good for that.

You do not need to constantly add protein to hair. It has enough of its own. You do need not to "strip" protein from your hair by friction, by using coatings (herb, conditioner or oil) that keeps it lubricated and free of tangling stress. ETA: Adding protein can be beneficial after certain chemical services to temporarily only, replenish what was lost by chemical services. There are specific protein treatments for that like Apogee - used best on clarified hair and followed immediately by a moisturizing treatment. I do not think you need that done.

If you overuse anything, and I mean anything you put on your hair, there will be problems, especially if what you use can cause build-up.

I might try the aussie, the vo5 just made my hair so slippery, like slipperyer (yeah made up word i know) then when i used coney everything including straightening products. I will give it another go though, if it might work. I also need a new styling product (perferably a mousse) any suggestions? And i always feel so bad using a volumizing shampoo with my thick hair, its like i am now saying my hair is thin and needs volume...just a wierd phycological thing i guess. Do you think tossing all and everything i am using, clarifying with the neutrogena doing an SMT using mollasses, vo5 conditioner and clear AVG usinf my usual mousse (unless you suggest a different one) and air drying would be good? Then from then on, try the aussie for a week with the vo5 shampoo and mousse, and nothing else and no switching? i am not trying to be an extremist and change everything, it just seems all i do makes it worse, i need to just start over because i am digging a hole here (and filling it with hair products lol)

[heidi w.]

I would additionally recommend looking into a shampoo that has no SLS (Sodium Laurel/ Laureth Sulfates).

Shampoo as a whole is not usually intend to moisturize. Conditioner is though.

heidi w.

[ktani]

I might try the aussie, the vo5 just made my hair so slippery, like slipperyer (yeah made up word i know) then when i used coney everything including straightening products. I will give it another go though, if it might work. I also need a new styling product (perferably a mousse) any suggestions? And i always feel so bad using a volumizing shampoo with my thick hair, its like i am now saying my hair is thin and needs volume...just a wierd phycological thing i guess. Do you think tossing all and everything i am using, clarifying with the neutrogena doing an SMT using mollasses, vo5 conditioner and clear AVG usinf my usual mousse (unless you suggest a different one) and air drying would be good? Then from then on, try the aussie for a week with the vo5 shampoo and mousse, and nothing else and no switching? i am not trying to be an extremist and change everything, it just seems all i do makes it worse, i need to just start over because i am digging a hole here (and filling it with hair products lol)

V05 makes a multitude of conditioners, includings a "Naturals" line. One of them may help.

You are doing it again. Taking in a lot of information and not filtering it. That is ok - I have done that too. You do need to slow down though and examine your options, one at a time.

The molasses is nice. It does coat the hair though. It should wash out easily enough.

I suggest trying things more simply. I cannot recommend a mousse. Look for ones that do not contain too many polymers. Ask at a Sally's for a good but light one.

Forget product titles. Half the time there is no relevance to the actual use. Read the bottle for what it is supposed to do and then read the ingredients. Titles mean zip and no one but you cares what the product is called (other than marketers who no doubt spend enless time thinking up ones, consumers will grab products for, without reading more).

[Hollyfire3]

V05 makes a multitude of conditioners, includings a "Naturals" line. One of them may help.

You are doing it again. Taking in a lot of information and not filtering it. That is ok - I have done that too. You do need to slow down though and examine your options, one at a time.

The molasses is nice. It does coat the hair though. It should wash out easily enough.

I suggest trying things more simply. I cannot recommend a mousse. Look for ones that do not contain too many polymers. Ask at a Sally's for a good but light one.

Forget product titles. Half the time there is no relevance to the actual use. Read the bottle for what it is supposed to do and then read the ingredients. Titles mean zip and no one but you cares what the product is called (other than marketers who no doubt spend enless time thinking up ones, consumers will grab products for, without reading more).


Where do you suggest i start?

[Hollyfire3]

I would additionally recommend looking into a shampoo that has no SLS (Sodium Laurel/ Laureth Sulfates).

Shampoo as a whole is not usually intend to moisturize. Conditioner is though.

heidi w.

I plan to do this but i feel like i use so much more shampoo with SLS free stuff.

[LocustSpawning]

The best conditioner I have ever used is Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose... it has saved my dry breaking hair. It works amazingly as a deep conditioner too, a few teaspoons with some olive oil slathered on damp hair and left for a few hours or so makes me hair feel like wonderful silk when washed out and my hair has air dried. If you can't find anything to put some moisture back in to make it okay again, I completely recommend you try this conditioner! Good luck x

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention it's protein free :)

[Hollyfire3]

The best conditioner I have ever used is Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose... it has saved my dry breaking hair. It works amazingly as a deep conditioner too, a few teaspoons with some olive oil slathered on damp hair and left for a few hours or so makes me hair feel like wonderful silk when washed out and my hair has air dried. If you can't find anything to put some moisture back in to make it okay again, I completely recommend you try this
conditioner! Good luck x


Edit: Also, I forgot to mention it's protein free :)

Thanks for the tip, the luck is also greatly appreciated.

[ktani]

I plan to do this but i feel like i use so much more shampoo with SLS free stuff.

Both sulfate and non sulfate shampoos can be mild and harsh.

Sulfate shampoos are the top choice for a good clarifying shampoo because they are stronger but only in the sls or als forms. (sodium lauryl and ammonium lauryl).

Start with the basics for the routine you like to follow.

You need (unless you use baking soda and vinegar or lemon juice and I do not recommend that for you because that is very recipe dependant, to avoid dryness, on dilutions).

1. a good basic clarifying shampoo - no extra stuff in it
2. a decent cleansing shampoo sulfate or not (sles and ales) are mild cleansers (sodium laureth and ammonium laureth)
3. a conditioner that is not too heavy. What this means is less waxes and polymers, silicones and oils = less build-up issues.
4. a not too heavy styling aid (see 3.)

[Hollyfire3]

Both sulfate and non sulfate shampoos can be mild and harsh.

Sulfate shampoos are the top choice for a good clarifying shampoo because they are stronger but only in the sls or als forms. (sodium lauryl and ammonium lauryl).

Start with the basics for the routine you like to follow.

You need (unless you use baking soda and vinegar or lemon juice and I do not recommend that for you because that is very recipe dependant, to avoid dryness, on dilutions).

1. a good basic clarifying shampoo - no extra stuff in it
2. a decent cleansing shampoo sulfate or not (sles and ales) are mild cleansers (sodium laureth and ammonium laureth)
3. a conditioner that is not too heavy. What this means is less waxes and polymers, silicones and oils = less build-up issues.
4. a not too heavy styling aid (see 3.)


1. neutrogena clarifying shampoo
2. aussie volume
3. vo5 cone and protein free
4. my mousse, (for now, i need something i know may work)
Do i use an SMT after clarifying or what do i do?
does all this sound ok? i am leaving for Walmart now.

[ktani]

1. neutrogena clarifying shampoo
2. aussie volume
3. vo5 cone and protein free
4. my mousse, (for now, i need something i know may work)
Do i use an SMT after clarifying or what do i do?
does all this sound ok? i am leaving for Walmart now.

You can yes. It is a good idea. Do not go overboard on amounts used in the recipe. All sounds good!

[Hollyfire3]

You can yes. It is a good idea. Do not go overboard on amounts used in the recipe. All sounds good!

Kk i am off to the store, thank you so much!:)

[ktani]

Kk i am off to the store, thank you so much!:)

You are very welcome. It is a start.

If you find for whatever reason, you pefer other brands to V05, no problem. It is the type of conditioner not the brand that is important.

The same applies to the other products as well. Hair products are subject to changes without notice. If you learn to understand what you are looking for, the changes do not matter. Like buses, there is always another product out there coming your way, that can work too.

[annamoonfairy]

Have you had any major stress factors or major change in diet? These can be triggers.

[blondie9912]

Just trim off the damage and stop colouring your hair (if thats what damaging it). If it consoles you, I also have quite a bit of breakage from bleach damage. Micro trimming helps :)

[Hollyfire3]

Have you had any major stress factors or major change in diet? These can be triggers.

I am pretty stressed all the time...but it seems to be getting more stressful lately... i hope this is not the reason.:(

[Hollyfire3]

Just trim off the damage and stop colouring your hair (if thats what damaging it). If it consoles you, I also have quite a bit of breakage from bleach damage. Micro trimming helps :)


I don't think the color is the problem, i think old damage and heat styling is the problem, but i will try to trim most of the damage and i plan to micro trim

[Hollyfire3]

You are very welcome. It is a start.

If you find for whatever reason, you pefer other brands to V05, no problem. It is the type of conditioner not the brand that is important.

The same applies to the other products as well. Hair products are subject to changes without notice. If you learn to understand what you are looking for, the changes do not matter. Like buses, there is always another product out there coming your way, that can work too.


I also wanted to add that at walmart, i found treseme heat mousse, i am going to blow dry with this because i feel like my mousse that i use now is protein heavy (i read the label) and is contributing to my problem instead of helping, if this new stuff works, i will try it heat free next wash and see if i can use it to air dry, i have used tresseme before and i think this is the same mousse with a different type of cap and if it is, i know it works and used it when i first started using mousse, loved it but ran out and thought it was no more, to better hair days! I hope this is the right stuff! oh and my hair drank the SMT, it was slimy and wet to begin with, now it is nearly dry and stiff after 2 hrs...time to rinse!:D

[ktani]

I also wanted to add that at walmart, i found treseme heat mousse, i am going to blow dry with this because i feel like my mousse that i use now is protein heavy (i read the label) and is contributing to my problem instead of helping, if this new stuff works, i will try it heat free next wash and see if i can use it to air dry, i have used tresseme before and i think this is the same mousse with a different type of cap and if it is, i know it works and used it when i first started using mousse, loved it but ran out and thought it was no more, to better hair days! I hope this is the right stuff! oh and my hair drank the SMT, it was slimy and wet to begin with, now it is nearly dry and stiff after 2 hrs...time to rinse!:D

It sounds good so far. Keep reading labels and look stuff up. Both can save you money, time, and from bad hair days.

[Hollyfire3]

It sounds good so far. Keep reading labels and look stuff up. Both can save you money, time, and from bad hair days.


Yeah i think i should have read the mousse i just got before buying it...it has silk amino acids and keratin, both of which probably worked wonderfully 2 yrs ago, long before my hair decided to be picky. When i did what the bottle said and blew my hair dry, it went straight! crazy straight...i think this mousse is out for a little while, at least until i can get moisture back in my hair...too much protein! i started a new thread askign if i can SMT 2 times because i think this would have gone better if i had air dryed instead of using heat and this new product...maybe my mousse i was using before isn't all bad...so can i SMT today also and air dry with the stuff i know works? my hair sucked all of the SMT up in 2 hrs and some stretch it back, but not enough. i know however my goal is to not over do so if you think doing another SMT would be over doing it, i will wash with my new aussie shampoo, conditione lightly with vo5 and air dry with one of the mousses (proably my old one, although i wish to see if this new stuff can be used for air drying...even though it says to use with heat)