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CariadA
February 13th, 2012, 01:14 PM
After giving up on CO a couple of months ago, I have been trying various methods of CWC. I'm still trying to find what works best for me.

I stopped COing because my hair would get greasy too fast. I tried it for a long time and really liked how it made my hair and scalp feel for the first day, but then I would get scalp buildup (no matter how long I rinsed) and I ended up having to wash every other day. I decided to try CWC so that I could stretch my washes to once or twice a week and limit the exposure my hair has to water. The CWC has made it very easy for me to stretch my washes. Although I use diluted shampoo, it still seems to strip my hair just a little too much and leave my scalp very dry for the first day or so.

I was thinking that trying a 2-in-1 shampoo and conditioner (only on the scalp) instead of the first condition and wash may work better. It may be gentler than shampoo and provide a little conditioning for my scalp and roots but not be quite as heavy as actually conditioning them. I would then follow through with a more moisturizing conditioner from the ears down. I am hoping it would provide me with the conditioning benefits of CO while enabling me to stretch washes the way I can with CWC. Has anyone tried this before? Do you guys think it would work?

Thanks!

lmfbs
February 13th, 2012, 02:11 PM
After giving up on CO a couple of months ago, I have been trying various methods of CWC. I'm still trying to find what works best for me.

I stopped COing because my hair would get greasy too fast. I tried it for a long time and really liked how it made my hair and scalp feel for the first day, but then I would get scalp buildup (no matter how long I rinsed) and I ended up having to wash every other day. I decided to try CWC so that I could stretch my washes to once or twice a week and limit the exposure my hair has to water. The CWC has made it very easy for me to stretch my washes. Although I use diluted shampoo, it still seems to strip my hair just a little too much and leave my scalp very dry for the first day or so.

I was thinking that trying a 2-in-1 shampoo and conditioner (only on the scalp) instead of the first condition and wash may work better. It may be gentler than shampoo and provide a little conditioning for my scalp and roots but not be quite as heavy as actually conditioning them. I would then follow through with a more moisturizing conditioner from the ears down. I am hoping it would provide me with the conditioning benefits of CO while enabling me to stretch washes the way I can with CWC. Has anyone tried this before? Do you guys think it would work?

Thanks!

In my experience, 2-in-1s have been so drying on my hair, but I'm really sensitive to sulfates. Have you tried diluting your shampoo with water? Like 1 part shampoo/3 parts water or similar?

Carolyn
February 13th, 2012, 03:21 PM
I've been using 2-in-1s followed by a heavier conditioner once in a while for several years. I've never had a problem with it. A 2in1 alone would not be conditioning enough for me so the second conditioner solves that. I find it very similar to CWC but done in 2 steps instead of 3. I have no problems using regular shampoos with sulfates.

Silver Strands
February 13th, 2012, 03:23 PM
I have used Pantene Beautiful Lengths 2 in 1 followed by the matching conditioner and really liked it.
I used it for the same reasons you mentioned: CO = too oily, too soon.
CWC = A little too drying.
When Pantene discontinued the line, I just started adding about a dime size amount
of shampoo in my palm and the same amount conditioner, rubbing my hands together
and using that.
It works very well for me.

There is another very long hair with 1a type that uses the original Pantene 2 in 1 followed by the matching conditioner and her hair is beautiful.

Amber_Maiden
February 13th, 2012, 03:48 PM
I find 2 in 1's not that great at all at moisturizing the hair, so yes, I would use a conditioner.

torrilin
February 13th, 2012, 03:57 PM
I'd probably look at what shampoo first. Just because you're diluting your shampoo does not mean it automatically becomes non-drying.

My sister is using Cetaphil Restoraderm as her primary shampoo now because a sodium lauryl or laureth sulfate shampoo upsets her eczema too much. The sodium trideceth sulfate doesn't cause problems, and it's got a lot of other moisturizing ingredients. My skin is ok with SLS, so I use Desert Essences fragrance free shampoo. If you compare a lot of 2 in 1 shampoos with my sister's Cetaphil stuff, there just aren't a lot of conditioning ingredients in the 2 in 1 shampoos... and often they have a lot more sodium lauryl sulfate than my shampoo! Remember, labels always list ingredients by how much of the ingredient goes in the product.

It's not as simple as 2 in 1 products being evil :). And since our skin and hair tend to need the same mildly acidic pH, using something that isn't a "real" shampoo can still work... It all depends on what suits you best.

RitaPG
February 13th, 2012, 04:34 PM
Back when I used shampoo often, I oiled my scalp (coconut or jojoba oil) prior to shampoo. I could either leave it in overnight or just for a couple hours. It helped counter-balance the dryness of the shampoo.

Also, since using conditioner on your scalp isn't an option, have you considered an acidic rinse, like diluted apple cider vinegar? It helps restore the PH balance of skin and hair, I did this often too before going CO, and my skin and hair always feel much better than when I didn't. I'd shampoo, rinse, use the ACV rinse on scalp and length and then condition form the ears down. It's really cheap and worth a try :)

CariadA
February 13th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Thank you all for the replies!


In my experience, 2-in-1s have been so drying on my hair, but I'm really sensitive to sulfates. Have you tried diluting your shampoo with water? Like 1 part shampoo/3 parts water or similar?

Yep, I always dilute my shampoo. I love that it makes it easier to distribute! Luckily, I've never had problems with sulfates.


I've been using 2-in-1s followed by a heavier conditioner once in a while for several years. I've never had a problem with it. A 2in1 alone would not be conditioning enough for me so the second conditioner solves that. I find it very similar to CWC but done in 2 steps instead of 3. I have no problems using regular shampoos with sulfates.

It's good to hear it's worked for you. I definitely would also need the second conditioner. Even with CO, I always needed to use a richer conditioner on my length than I used to wash. I would love to have the benefits of CWC with one less step.


I have used Pantene Beautiful Lengths 2 in 1 followed by the matching conditioner and really liked it.
I used it for the same reasons you mentioned: CO = too oily, too soon.
CWC = A little too drying.
When Pantene discontinued the line, I just started adding about a dime size amount
of shampoo in my palm and the same amount conditioner, rubbing my hands together
and using that.
It works very well for me.

There is another very long hair with 1a type that uses the original Pantene 2 in 1 followed by the matching conditioner and her hair is beautiful.

It's so good to know it's worked with others. I have been wanting to try Pantene's Ice Shine. I was looking at the shampoo and conditioner earlier and saw that they also have a 2-in-1 of the Ice Shine. I may get that and the matching conditioner.


I find 2 in 1's not that great at all at moisturizing the hair, so yes, I would use a conditioner.

Oh yeah, I would never be able to get away with not using a richer conditioner, even with a 2-in-1! I really do want to try the Ice Shine, but if that conditioner isn't rich enough, I'll just keep using my Garnier Triple Nutrition conditioner.


I'd probably look at what shampoo first. Just because you're diluting your shampoo does not mean it automatically becomes non-drying.

My sister is using Cetaphil Restoraderm as her primary shampoo now because a sodium lauryl or laureth sulfate shampoo upsets her eczema too much. The sodium trideceth sulfate doesn't cause problems, and it's got a lot of other moisturizing ingredients. My skin is ok with SLS, so I use Desert Essences fragrance free shampoo. If you compare a lot of 2 in 1 shampoos with my sister's Cetaphil stuff, there just aren't a lot of conditioning ingredients in the 2 in 1 shampoos... and often they have a lot more sodium lauryl sulfate than my shampoo! Remember, labels always list ingredients by how much of the ingredient goes in the product.

It's not as simple as 2 in 1 products being evil :). And since our skin and hair tend to need the same mildly acidic pH, using something that isn't a "real" shampoo can still work... It all depends on what suits you best.

That's interesting about your sister using the Cetaphil. It makes sense that it would work, though. I don't have problems with SLS, luckily, which makes finding a solution a little easier. I also don't mind cones, which I think most 2-in-1s have.


Back when I used shampoo often, I oiled my scalp (coconut or jojoba oil) prior to shampoo. I could either leave it in overnight or just for a couple hours. It helped counter-balance the dryness of the shampoo.

Also, since using conditioner on your scalp isn't an option, have you considered an acidic rinse, like diluted apple cider vinegar? It helps restore the PH balance of skin and hair, I did this often too before going CO, and my skin and hair always feel much better than when I didn't. I'd shampoo, rinse, use the ACV rinse on scalp and length and then condition form the ears down. It's really cheap and worth a try :)

I don't oil my scalp often, but I do oil my ends sometimes. I probably should have mentioned in my earlier post that I do usually use a very diluted AVC rinse. I find it helps a lot, too. It doesn't help my hair feel any less stripped, but it does help my scalp feel better. I've actually been using ACV rinses since long before I joined LHC, although I used to use too high of a concentration of it and learned here to dilute it even more. It's awesome stuff!

CariadA
February 13th, 2012, 07:11 PM
Ok, so I was trying to decide between Pantene's Ice Shine 2 in 1 and their Aqua Light 2 in 1 and noticed they're almost exactly the same!

Pantene Ice Shine 2 in 1
Water , Sodium Laureth Sulfate , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Glycol Distearate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Sodium Citrate , Cocamide MEA , Sodium Xylenesulfonate , Dimethicone , Fragrance , Citric Acid , Sodium Benzoate , Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride , Sodium Chloride , Tetrasodium EDTA , Panthenol , Panthenyl Ethyl Ether , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone



Pantene Aqua Light 2 in 1
Water , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Sodium Laureth Sulfate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Glycol Distearate , Sodium Citrate , Cocamide MEA , Sodium Xylenesulfonate , Fragrance , Dimethicone , Citric Acid , Sodium Benzoate , Sodium Chloride , Tetrasodium EDTA , Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride , Panthenol , Panthenyl Ethyl Ether , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone

I was also looking at Garnier Pure Clean 2 in 1. It looks pretty gentle.
Aqua (Water) , Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Sodium Chloride , Hexylene Glycol , Pyrus Malus Extract (Apple Fruit Extract) , Fragrance , Sodium Benzoate , Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride , Citric Acid , Salicylic Acid , Benzoic Acid , Niacinamide , Pyridoxine HCI , Caprylic , Capric Triglyceride , Linalool , Hexyl Cinnamal , Saccharum Officinarum Extract (Sugar Cane Extract) , Citrus Medica Limonium Peel Extract (Lemon Peel Extract) , Camellia Sinensis Extract (Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract) , Malphigia Punicfolia (Acerola Fruit Extract) , Sodium Hydroxide

RitaPG
February 13th, 2012, 07:17 PM
Ok, so I was trying to decide between Pantene's Ice Shine 2 in 1 and their Aqua Light 2 in 1 and noticed they're almost exactly the same!

Pantene Ice Shine 2 in 1
Water , Sodium Laureth Sulfate , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Glycol Distearate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Sodium Citrate , Cocamide MEA , Sodium Xylenesulfonate , Dimethicone , Fragrance , Citric Acid , Sodium Benzoate , Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride , Sodium Chloride , Tetrasodium EDTA , Panthenol , Panthenyl Ethyl Ether , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone

Pantene Aqua Light 2 in 1
Water , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Sodium Laureth Sulfate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Glycol Distearate , Sodium Citrate , Cocamide MEA , Sodium Xylenesulfonate , Fragrance , Dimethicone , Citric Acid , Sodium Benzoate , Sodium Chloride , Tetrasodium EDTA , Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride , Panthenol , Panthenyl Ethyl Ether , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone

I was also looking at Garnier Pure Clean 2 in 1. It looks pretty gentle.
Aqua (Water) , Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Sodium Chloride , Hexylene Glycol , Pyrus Malus Extract (Apple Fruit Extract) , Fragrance , Sodium Benzoate , Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride , Citric Acid , Salicylic Acid , Benzoic Acid , Niacinamide , Pyridoxine HCI , Caprylic , Capric Triglyceride , Linalool , Hexyl Cinnamal , Saccharum Officinarum Extract (Sugar Cane Extract) , Citrus Medica Limonium Peel Extract (Lemon Peel Extract) , Camellia Sinensis Extract (Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract) , Malphigia Punicfolia (Acerola Fruit Extract) , Sodium Hydroxide

Honestly all of those would be too harsh for me. Both Pantene shampoos have not one, but two detergents on them. And Garnier Pure Clean has Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, which is a very, very harsh ingredient as well.

Quoted from Naturally curly website: (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products)
Ammonium lauryl sulfate: can be very drying to the hair
Sodium laureth sulfate: can be drying to the hair
Sodium lauryl sulfate: can be especially drying to the hair

If I have to use shampoo at all, I use one that does not have sulfates at all, or one with Sodium laureth sulfate only.

CariadA
February 13th, 2012, 07:23 PM
Honestly all of those would be too harsh for me. Both Pantene shampoos have not one, but two detergents on them. And Garnier Pure Clean has Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, which is a very, very harsh ingredient as well.

Quoted from Naturally curly website: (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products)
Ammonium lauryl sulfate: can be very drying to the hair
Sodium laureth sulfate: can be drying to the hair
Sodium lauryl sulfate: can be especially drying to the hair

If I have to use shampoo at all, I use one that does not have sulfates at all, or one with Sodium laureth sulfate only.

I haven't had problems with SLS before, but I've never tried ALS. I'll keep my eye out for one with just sodium laureth sulfate, though. From what I understand about how 2-in-1s work, there is some sort of agent that makes the silicone stay behind when the shampoo is washed out. Because of that, I don't really understand how the Garnier one works without silicone.

RitaPG
February 13th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Oh! I forgot, you could try the oil shampoo method. I did that too on occasion, just mixed a bit of oil to my regular shampoo and it worked just fine. There are a whole buch of tips and tricks, though, and several threads about it: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=63768

aure
February 13th, 2012, 08:10 PM
I had to stop CO because my skin started to break up and CWC resulted in my hair looking like a stack of dry hay. So I wanted to give CWC a try. My cousin gave me a bottle of 2- 1 S&C that is sulfate free (Aveeno) and I have started using it as the 'CW' step and then apply a rich conditioner. My cousin told me there are plenty of natural 2-in-1 S&C if you look around organic baby section in store (I guess she has a great knowledge on this topic since she has already two babies and little time to take care of her tailbone hair!).

CariadA
February 13th, 2012, 08:21 PM
Oh! I forgot, you could try the oil shampoo method. I did that too on occasion, just mixed a bit of oil to my regular shampoo and it worked just fine. There are a whole buch of tips and tricks, though, and several threads about it: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=63768

You know, I've read about it and always wanted to try it. But then I get too lazy to want to experiment with it. It just seemed like a lot of work. But maybe I should try it.


I had to stop CO because my skin started to break up and CWC resulted in my hair looking like a stack of dry hay. So I wanted to give CWC a try. My cousin gave me a bottle of 2- 1 S&C that is sulfate free (Aveeno) and I have started using it as the 'CW' step and then apply a rich conditioner. My cousin told me there are plenty of natural 2-in-1 S&C if you look around organic baby section in store (I guess she has a great knowledge on this topic since she has already two babies and little time to take care of her tailbone hair!).

There really are a lot of 2-in-1s that are made for kids and babies. The problem I have with most of them is that they have too high of a PH. Any of the "tear free" ones will definitely have too high of a PH; making the PH more alkaline is what makes it not sting the eyes. Also, babies have a higher skin PH than adults, so products formulated for them aren't always the best for adults. Since I do use an AVC rinse, I suppose that would help restore the PH but it still concerns me.

torrilin
February 14th, 2012, 09:02 AM
For me, both of those 2 in 1 products would be bad. Cocamidopropyl Betaine tends to make my hair really tangly , and I don't quite understand why. Even in a scalp wash, even diluted. And the tangles will stay even after my hair is dry, making detangling a pretty unpleasant chore.

UP Lisa
February 14th, 2012, 09:16 AM
I don't think it matters "how many" detergents are in a shampoo.

I don't use 2 in 1's because I don't like to put silicone's on my scalp, and also because when combined, neither the shampoo or the conditioner can do a proper job. They are contradictory products.

Silver Strands
February 14th, 2012, 02:06 PM
I also looked at the Ice Shine and Aqua Light today at Wal-Mart and noticed they are very similar.
I resisted buying anything new as I want to use up what I already have but I think i'm
leaning more towards the Aqua Light.
I think it will be a good choice for summertime.

I tried the regular Garnier Fructis Pure & Clean shampoo and separate conditioner and maybe
it's my water, but they did not make my hair feel or smell clean.
My hair smelled like a dirty dog.
I returned them.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

I also tend to stick with the Laureth and Lauryl Sulfates. I think the Amonium Sulfate is too harsh for me.

I also want to try some sulfate free products but there's only so many things you can
use. And I get tired of trying something new only to find it doesn't work for me.
I tend to stick with what I know works.

CariadA
February 15th, 2012, 10:16 AM
For me, both of those 2 in 1 products would be bad. Cocamidopropyl Betaine tends to make my hair really tangly , and I don't quite understand why. Even in a scalp wash, even diluted. And the tangles will stay even after my hair is dry, making detangling a pretty unpleasant chore.

So I tried to do some research on Cocamidopropyl Betaine and tangling and couldn't find anything. But since your hair type is similar to mine and it causes tangling for you, that is something I need to consider. I also tried to look around for 2-in-1's without it as an ingredient and had trouble finding them. The only one I could find that was a reasonable price had a lot of soy protein in it, which may also cause tangling for me.


I don't think it matters "how many" detergents are in a shampoo.

I don't use 2 in 1's because I don't like to put silicone's on my scalp, and also because when combined, neither the shampoo or the conditioner can do a proper job. They are contradictory products.

Yes, I see how they could be contradictory. But since I didn't have trouble getting my hair clean with CO, I'm not worried about that for myself.


I also looked at the Ice Shine and Aqua Light today at Wal-Mart and noticed they are very similar.
I resisted buying anything new as I want to use up what I already have but I think i'm
leaning more towards the Aqua Light.
I think it will be a good choice for summertime.

I tried the regular Garnier Fructis Pure & Clean shampoo and separate conditioner and maybe
it's my water, but they did not make my hair feel or smell clean.
My hair smelled like a dirty dog.
I returned them.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

I also tend to stick with the Laureth and Lauryl Sulfates. I think the Amonium Sulfate is too harsh for me.

I also want to try some sulfate free products but there's only so many things you can
use. And I get tired of trying something new only to find it doesn't work for me.
I tend to stick with what I know works.

Yeah, I've been reading reviews of all of them. The Ice Shine and Aqua Light both seem to have decent reviews and the Garnier one has worse reviews. Most complaints about 2-in-1 reviews are about lack of conditioning, but since I will be following up with a second conditioner on the length, I feel ok about that.

I also don't like trying new things too often. I hate wasting products and money. That's why I read a lot of reviews and try to research ingredients before I buy anything.

PeaceLoveHair
February 16th, 2012, 10:28 PM
I wash my hair with Head n Shoulder's 2 in 1 shampoo and conditioner( the one for silky smooth hair =), and then I follow with a conditioner. I find that this 2 in 1 doesn't quite condition my hair enough, but at the same time I don't like using just the Head n Shoulder shampoo to wash as it's a little harsh. So this is my solution and it works wonderfully for me.

mz_butterfly
February 17th, 2012, 12:02 AM
I have always found 2 in 1's to be too heavy and not cleansing enough for my hair. It tends to weigh it down and make it greasy. I can't imagine using a second conditioner afterwards.

torrilin
February 17th, 2012, 09:53 AM
So I tried to do some research on Cocamidopropyl Betaine and tangling and couldn't find anything. But since your hair type is similar to mine and it causes tangling for you, that is something I need to consider. I also tried to look around for 2-in-1's without it as an ingredient and had trouble finding them. The only one I could find that was a reasonable price had a lot of soy protein in it, which may also cause tangling for me.

I would not avoid it in your hair just coz it works badly in mine... especially since I don't know the mechanism!

But it is useful IMO to pay attention to whether one product or another results in more or fewer tangles. For me, simple SLS shampoos without a whole lot else tend to result in the fewest tangles. It strikes me as entirely possible that I can do better on that front with judicious experimentation. So on occasion, I do. I rather suspect some of the more curly oriented "low-poo" formulae might make my hair happy, so one of these days I'll take a flier on one or two. (don't expect a report any time soon... I have a HUGE stockpile of my favorite shampoo and I don't use it up terribly fast)

CariadA
February 18th, 2012, 06:30 PM
Ok, so I finally tried this yesterday.

I still haven't bought a 2-in-1. I haven't decided which one to use yet. I also live 15 miles from the nearest grocery store or drug store (and really far from any beauty stores) so I try to consolidate my trips to twice a month. I'll pick up a new 2-in-1 next time I go to the store.

I tried it with DH's shampoo. He uses Garnier dandruff 2-in-1 (this one: http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/garnier-fructis-clean-%26-fresh-2-in-1-anti-dandruff-shampoo-%2b-conditioner/ID=prod6038718-product). I gently worked a small amount (about a quarter size) into my scalp and rinsed it out thoroughly. I followed with my regular conditioner, Garnier Triple Nutrition. I normally do an ACV rinse after washing and then use mineral oil on damp hair, but I skipped both steps so I could see how this combo works by itself.

My hair feels great. My scalp feels clean but my hair doesn't feel stripped. It was pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. I do want to try it with a different 2-in-1 as I don't really need dandruff control. And next time, I want to add in the ACV then maybe the mineral oil.

CariadA
February 18th, 2012, 07:12 PM
I just remembered that I used to use L'Oreal Kid's Strawberry smoothie from time to time just because I liked the scent. I love strawberry scented products. The ingredients are here: http://www.lorealparisusa.com/_us/_en/default.aspx#/?page=top{userdata//d+d//|diagnostic|main:pdp//objectid+HCa1_3//{pdp_tab:pdp_ingredients//objectid+HCa1_3//}|media:_blank|nav|overlay:_blank}

It uses only Sodium Laureth Sulfate and doesn't contain Cocamidopropyl Betaine. My only concern is that it would be too alkaline because it says "tear free" and is made for kids. It does contain tartaric acid which may bring the PH down a little bit. The makeup alley reviews are great. And since it used to work for me, I guess it couldn't have been too bad. I suppose if I am super diligent about not skipping the ACV rinses, it could work.

The-Young-Maid
February 18th, 2012, 11:11 PM
My hair felt very greasy and had lots of buildup when I tried that, but at least I tried.:knitfrog:

NormaJean
February 18th, 2012, 11:25 PM
I've been doing this for ages without any problems. My hair seems to like it..... but my hair's pretty easy to please. The only thing that I've ever tried that made it unhappy were those awful warm oil treatments from VO5, and some spray in leave in conditioner way back when. Glad you had good results!