Everyday up-do woes...

[millyaulait]

My hair is too short for hair sticks & too slippery for barrettes/jaw clips.

I'm noticing damage from safe elastics (no metal pieces, either!), scarily broken hair is showing up on my pillow every morning.

I can't even wear it down because of damage from friction.

What's a gal to do? :scissors: :headache:

[bna_rapunzel]

Try dutch/french braids. If you have enough length, the braid helps hold the stick/fork/clip/whathaveyou in place. But. Even when you have enough length, you'll still have hair issues here and there.
My hair is at tb, very fine and slippery. I lost my fork this morning, I didn't wanna use spin pins, so I ran out of the house with my favorite stick, which doesn't want to cooperate or stay in my hair. Ahhhh! >:/ I even braided my hair to help the stick stay and it just wants to slide and pull. Meh. Just one of those bad hair days.
My hair looks amazing down, it just doesn't want to be up today.

Haha.
Good luck.
Braids are also very beautiful and elegant. :)

[millyaulait]

Thanks, rapunzel! I have *no* idea how to braid, so I'll have a look on YT for some tutorials.. :D I think my layers/breakages might get in the way though.. :c I'll try me best!

[Madora]

You might try wearing a snood at night to contain your hair..or maybe a slik pillowcase, if the snood idea doesn't appeal to you.

[millyaulait]

The silk pillowcase sounds like a great idea, Madora! Thanks :) I just need to find something for during the day now.. I wish my hair wasn't so fragile..

[spike316]

Are you sure your hair is too short for hair sticks? I've been wearing them since 18 inches my bun is pretty pitiful, but at least it's not getting damaged so I'd say it's a fair trade off. ^_^ Ketylos have had the best hold for me so far, other slanted styles like this: http://mp.hairboutique.com/_images/products/france_luxe_hairsticks_ivory_tokyo_350w.jpg my hair just seems to squeeze out >_O. The slipperiest material seems to be metal so I'd suggest avoiding that until you have more hair to grip it. Something that has really helped in getting my hair sticks to stay in is not using silicones anymore.

[millyaulait]

Hi, spike! Hmmm... Well, maybe I am just really bad at using hair sticks.. :D I can't even make a bun, I think it's the thinness of it, too. I am going to have a look at ketylos sticks though! TY :)

[moxamoll]

You may just need some more practice. I was talking to a friend of a friend at Christmas and she was admiring my hair sticks. She has baby fine hair and not very much of it, so she was thinking that sticks would never work. It's just long enough that she had it rolled in a little cinnamon bun held with pins. So I pulled out the pins and put in the sticks. Voila! Mine were way too long, but they stayed in and didn't slide even when she shook her head. It took her about four tries to get the hang of it, but she managed.
I can usually use one stick for most buns, but I actually think that her's would do better with two - so they could kind of anchor each other. Maybe look for thinner, lighter styles of sticks? I haven't tried Ketylo's yet, so I can't comment on those.

[spike316]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhA5_1VF8dc Here's a good example of how to use sticks in (very) short hair. Granted, this ladies' hair is super curly so probably has a significantly better grip, but it might help give you an idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMifZMQwV_U I think you might be able to do this at your current length. The reason that ketylos work so well for me is there's a curl in the middle of the stick so it just holds onto the bun waaaay better than traditional sticks.

Eta also, some of the best hair sticks I used when I was starting out was a pair of bamboo size 6 double pointed knitting needles. Here's the video that really helped me learn how to use them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWf4ElyLAAE&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLF30BB2EEC176252C before that I was just shoving the sticks in my bun and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't stay. lol! you can also kinda do the same thing with a french twist or tails up, it just takes a bit more practice. ^_^

[CSallaround]

You might try wearing a snood at night to contain your hair..or maybe a slik pillowcase, if the snood idea doesn't appeal to you.

What is a snood? :)

[Amazinggrace]

For night time, maybe try a scrunchi. They are very gentle on my hair.

[QMacrocarpa]

Some claw clips have something like silicone (not the slippy conditioner kind, more like a non-slip bead of dried caulk) on the inside which is supposed to give them better grip. I used to use (and loved!) a couple of octopus clips (http://scunci.com/products.php?pcID=151&products_id=548) like that. I just used them as bun cages and stuffed all my hair into them. Granted, my hair isn't slippery, but it could be worth a try.

Another idea would be a Ficcare (or knock-off "Fakkare") which you might try with a split bun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-K9CidKTfA). That is a super-secure, dance-stable style for me. The lazy wrap bun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkTiEN5koiI) also works well with this type of clip. I got a couple cheap plastic Fakkares at Claire's in December, and also heard that some Old Navy's had a different type (though not the store near me :() so those are possible sources.

Finally, an idea to make hairsticks more reliable is to combine one with an elastic to make an elastic slide (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34370229@N07/6561233847/). I often use this technique with horizontal hairstick buns when I really need the bun to stay put.

[MsBubbles]

All the 'ouchless' and so-called 'damage-free' elastics are a load of rubbish, in my opinion. They ALL break my fragile, fine hair. The only ones that don't are the huge, floppy ones that look ridiculous on the end of my braid, but who cares.

Otherwise, try a pretzel bun (http://metacafe.tubevube.com/watch/yt-ElSCHnzYtM8/jjjs_pretzel_bun_demo_2005/) held with tiny claw clips around the outside of the bun to evenly distribute the weight-bearing part on your scalp. My hair likes to try to escape from buns like a tin full of toy snakes, but the pretzel bun with claw clips holds solid for hours.

The pretzel bun is easy to learn. I'm a bit of an updo dummy.

[ladyfey]

I encourage your looking at Ketylos, they are by far my favorite sticks. The hair ties I use are by mane message on etsy, they are just pieces of elastic that the maker has dyed and tied in a knot. They are wonderful in my opinion, no damage for me!

[Madora]

What is a snood? :)

Here you go:

http://www.mcssl.com/store/bearflagrepublic/catalog/product/01f6f0f72dd6420ab7700c1e708d9352

Very popular during the Civil War era and beyond.

Was popular during WW2 also.

[bna_rapunzel]

Thanks, rapunzel! I have *no* idea how to braid, so I'll have a look on YT for some tutorials.. :D I think my layers/breakages might get in the way though.. :c I'll try me best!

As soon as I figured out how to braid, I honestly prefer a braided bun as opposed to a regular bun. The braided buns make me feel like the pull of the bun is more evenly distributed. Good luck! I. Have some braided bun pictures in my album. If you can get the hang of braids, crown braids are super comfortable and really pretty. I have a picture of that in my album too.
Good luck!! :)

[Anje]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omw2szlWRU8) is shown with very long hair, but it demonstrates a good way to use a stick that works for most people with hair that's APL-ish, depending on thickness. You'll be able to do it sooner if you (1) twist the length and (2) stop at the point where she's inserted the first hairstick.

[Long_hair_bear]

Are you sure your hair is too short for hair sticks? I've been wearing them since 18 inches my bun is pretty pitiful, but at least it's not getting damaged so I'd say it's a fair trade off. ^_^ Ketylos have had the best hold for me so far, other slanted styles like this: http://mp.hairboutique.com/_images/products/france_luxe_hairsticks_ivory_tokyo_350w.jpg my hair just seems to squeeze out >_O. The slipperiest material seems to be metal so I'd suggest avoiding that until you have more hair to grip it. Something that has really helped in getting my hair sticks to stay in is not using silicones anymore.

That's what I was gonna say. Your hair is only 3 inches shorter than mine according to your length profile, and I can wear clips and jaws just fine. :)

[mzBANGBANG]

What about a simple silky scrunchie? I always used elastic to secure my hair and just invested in some fluffy scrunchies. Definitely a lot less tension on my buns.

[spidermom]

I find that my hair holds better if I don't comb it before making my up-do, also 2-3 days after washing it. Other than that, I'm very familiar with the slippery hair problem. Clean and combed/brushed - forget it. Nothing but a Dutch braid bun is going to hold.

[dulce]

How about a satin sleep cap at night and flexi 8 clips for daytime dos.

[millyaulait]

Thank you *so* much, everyone! I appreciate all of your advice! I'm going to invest in some different types of hair sticks & scrunchies, etc... Thanks again... :D

[Babyfine]

I have APL very fine, thin hair. It used to be about 2" below BSL but I cut it back to shoulders in Jan 2011 now re-growing.
For right now I wear my hair up with a Scunci Concorde beak clip I found in a drug store. It's very smooth plastic, no teeth, just careful not to get my hair close to the hinge.
When My hair was longer I used my small Flexi-8,my large spider jaw clip from tenderheaded, and a small Ficcare. My hair is too short and thin to fit any of those now but the small beak clip works for my french twists and little cinnebuns.
Sometimes I use bobby pins. I never wear elastics or ponytails as I feel pulling my hair back causes damage and friction(Plus I have the habit of "tightening my pontail". On the rare times I pull my hair back I use a cloth scrunchie.
I sleep on a satin pillowcase.

[JadeTigress]

Some claw clips have something like silicone (not the slippy conditioner kind, more like a non-slip bead of dried caulk) on the inside which is supposed to give them better grip.

Another vote here for the claw clips with the grippy stuff on the inside. I have fine, super slippery hair, and they work fantastically for me.

[jacqueline101]

Try a french twist with a claw clip.

[shikara]

If all else fails, as it did with me, you can try this - which Im delighted to say, wirks wonderfully, is SO comfortable, is versatile, stays in, and looks a little different everyday! Simp,y take sections of your hair, loop them around your fingers and slip in a bobby pin. I sure wish I had thought of this one year before I did, Hairpins didnt work for me, or sticks, claws, barettes erc. The pic below used five bobby pins. There are a ton of pics in my album using this method.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/lmarie29/th_2a283f57.jpg (http://s1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/lmarie29/?action=view&current=2a283f57.jpg)