View Full Version : need help from the experts readers of labels...please!
brok3nwings
July 15th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Today i bought "botanical styling gel" from hennaplus, i bought it at the health store and it was the only one they had...it seams to be super strong. The reason i bought it was to use it with a leave in just to hold a bit my waves... i hope it isnt too bad or too strong for my hair, so if anyone could please advice me with the label. The person who sold me told me there isnt alcohol but i dont know about the rest... please help me if you can i am trying to be careful with my hair :o it seams to have a lot of ingredients...and normally thats not really good, but i would like an opinion
Ingredients: aqua, PVP/VA copolymer, triethanolamine, propylene glycol, carbomer, polyquaternium-46, peg-40, hydrogenated castor oil, parfum, dmdmh hydantion, panthenol, benzophenone-4, glycerin, equisetum arvense, hamamelis virginiana, lawsonia inermis, malva sylvestris, methylparaben, tricum vulgare, tussilago farfara, viscum album, propylparaben, citronellol, limonene, hexyl cinnamal
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 02:36 PM
Fragrance and a preservative is pretty high on the list, but other than that it looks fine.
Is there a particular reason you're avoiding all alcohols? The fatty ones are emollients.
Ohio Sky
July 15th, 2008, 02:38 PM
I don't qualify as an "expert" label-reader but a few things hit me:
1) there is parabens in there. Some avoid those, though I couldn't tell you what they are purported to do to your hair.
2) Parfum is way up on the list. It's impossible to tell what exactly they use for the fragrance.
There is no alcohol in it, assuming the fragrance doesn't contain any. Most of the ingredients look pretty good, though as I said I'm not an expert.
really, all you can do is use it. If it's got something in it that your hair deosn't like, it will let you know. I started off trying to avoid everything under the sun only to figure out that I can't tell my hair it likes a natural routine. It pretty much told me in no uncertain terms that it prefers cones and PPD to oils and henna. Just try it and see.
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 02:40 PM
1) there is parabens in there. Some avoid those, though I couldn't tell you what they are purported to do to your hair.
The paraben drama is not related to any results on the hair, as far as I know. It is about the conflicting studies proving they do/don't cause cancer, or something.
brok3nwings
July 15th, 2008, 02:47 PM
Riot Crrl than you so much you have been helping me and reading my desperet and silly questions. About alcohols as i dont know how to identify them... with conditioners and stuff from the ones i know i dont really care about it, but as it is a new product from a line i dont use (hennaplus) and its a GEL i was afraid it had the drying kind of alcohol... i have to start learning to identify this things :S
Ohio sky you are right! But its always good to know that it doesnt have any alarming thing that could damage my hair...i will try it soon and see how it goes
wintersun99
July 15th, 2008, 02:48 PM
You can type all the ingredients into the database and find out what they are...
http://www.cosmeticdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=706937¬hanks=1
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 02:52 PM
Re: alcohols. There are a lot more than this, but some of the most common ones to see are these.
Bad: Isoprophyl, SD Alcohol, Alcohol Denat
OK: Cetyl Alchol, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol
Ohio Sky
July 15th, 2008, 02:58 PM
The paraben drama is not related to any results on the hair, as far as I know. It is about the conflicting studies proving they do/don't cause cancer, or something.
Good to know. :)
brok3nwings
July 15th, 2008, 03:02 PM
hmm...i´ve found at least 4 ingredients that arent good at all on the site that wintersun99 gave me... lol..anyway i just think i couldnt expect anything else as it is such a strong gel... errr...
Riot Crrl thank you for the information, that i something i have to be aware of
flapjack
July 15th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Limonene is basically a little hydrocarbon compound that smells like pine needles. So it's usually put in stuff for the smell. It's often an irritant and I know it's supposed to be banned in the EU and very rarely used in the US. I hardly ever run into it, actually, I figured it was banned here, too, until you mentioned it in this product.
Parfum (perfume/fragrance) is usually an irritant, too. And it's a cover-up for a bunch of random crap, usually alcohols that are very drying. It's pointless to have it in cosmetics, as far as my opinion goes.
The parabens are used as preservatives in a wide variety of things, including some foods! They're non-toxic and non-irritating (to the vast majority of people) and generally ok, but recently there has been research showing that they were found in breast tumors and they're found in animals, acting as very VERY weak estrogens. I think it's something like 2000 times weaker than estradiol. AND this info is being argued over in the scientific community. So, I would say this... make sure that things like your toothpaste, hair products, makeups, foods, etc. (especially foods!) don't ALL have it in there. Don't use it in a bunch of stuff even though it's in small amounts and it's relatively harmless. I wouldn't use it in deodorant, toothpaste, food or lotion, for example. But it's not anything to flip out over at the moment.
Triethanolamine is fine, it doesn't penetrate the skin and it balances the pH of the product. I can see why they would put fragrance in to make sure you can't smell the amine in it (amines smell awful) but they could have used a little of an EO with a safer effect.
Dmdm hydantoin is a REALLY SHITTY PRESERVATIVE. I do not like that one, I don't see why it's necessary in any product. There are a number of better manmade and natural preservatives they could have used that are significantly safer. This one basically releases a ton of formaldehyde over time. Not cool.
The polyquaterniums (we call them quats in the lab) are basically positively charged molecules attached to a nitrogen. There are a bunch of different ones, they're usually used as preservatives/antimicrobials and/or to balance the pH of products (often for hair and skin) to give an overall positive charge because hair and skin are naturally acidic. Nothing to worry about imo.
The peg in peg-40 is for polyethylene glycol and there are tons of them. They're polymers and the number stands for their molecular weight in some form but I forget how they get the number (because it's not actually 40 in this case). Anyway, these are fine. They keep things in a uniform state, usually, like keeping toothpaste in a paste-y form throughout the tube, for example. There have been studies on animals showing that giant pegs might actually help with colon cancer. Pretty cool. Nothing to worry about, water soluble for the lower numbers (anything not in the thousands... which wouldn't be in a cosmetic, anyway). This is actually one area where I disagree with the cosmetic database site. These guys are not bad for you, they wash right off or you pee them out and they're in tiny amounts.
Benzophenone is a uv filter used in a lot of sunscreens. It's fine imo.
Hexyl cinnamal is from chamomile and it's used as a fragrance. It's fine, can irritate in large amounts (like everything else on the planet...). Citronellol, same thing but from rose and geranium.
Panthenol is a form of vitamin B5, it's fine. Really soluble, metabolized normally when ingested.
The copolymer is fine, that's actually the major part of the product that is doing it's job. It's the hair gel in your "hair gel", haha. Same for the carbomer.
Hydrogenated castor oil is the waxy, hydrogenated form of castor oil. Not good to eat, but fine to put on your hair or skin. Won't absorb, it's a vegetable oil turned waxy, so it will just coat whatever you put it on until you wash it.
Propylene glycol can irritate the skin of some people, but it's fine. It's metabolized normally in the body, it's non-toxic and not carcinogenic. It's an alcohol but it's not very drying at all.
So in other words, it looks alright except for the limonene, hydantoin and fragrance, all of them are totally unnecessary for this product. But oh well. I would use it if I already owned it, in your case, it's not a big deal. It's not like there is a ton of hydantoin or limonene in it and if the fragrance isn't irritating you, you'll be ok.
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Dmdm hydantoin is a REALLY SHITTY PRESERVATIVE. I do not like that one, I don't see why it's necessary in any product. There are a number of better manmade and natural preservatives they could have used that are significantly safer. This one basically releases a ton of formaldehyde over time. Not cool.
I've seen a fair amount of drama over this one too. Some people are like, "Meh, it's a small amount and formaldehyde is in beer and food anyways." Others run screaming.
Whether it is bad or less bad, I don't really like the look of how far up the list it is. Same with fragrance.
flapjack
July 15th, 2008, 03:55 PM
It's not so much that it releases formaldehyde, it's that it supposedly releases a lot more of it than other similar chemicals. I think something like diazolidinyl urea is actually a lot better and releases much less, if any, formaldehyde. But a lot of this hasn't been tested out properly, either, I will admit that for sure. This is all just from what I've read in the past... 4-5 years.
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 04:02 PM
It's not so much that it releases formaldehyde, it's that it supposedly releases a lot more of it than other similar chemicals. I think something like diazolidinyl urea is actually a lot better and releases much less, if any, formaldehyde. But a lot of this hasn't been tested out properly, either, I will admit that for sure. This is all just from what I've read in the past... 4-5 years.
Well that's good to know. I've never really seen a distinction drawn between the different formaldehyde releasing preservatives. I'll go for the urea next time, lol.
brok3nwings
July 15th, 2008, 04:44 PM
wowww ... this is really really amazing! I really enjoy reading why things are used for..i really hate that there isnt anyone on the health store i go that can explain me this things! They should but they dont have a clue...
flapjack what is formaldehyde? i really have to thank you for your pacience! Really!! the gel has an intensive smell of mango and now i am really afraid of using it cause this is really the first time i use gel...and i really dont want to take away all of the work i have been doing with my hair
So any of you have any product recomendation for keeping my waves? Here in Portugal there are loreal, herbal essence, fructis, redken, loreal professionel, TIGI, wella, kerastase, Osis...
so any recomendation on these products? Maybe i shouldnt be asking this here...but i am almost giving up to keep my waves and going to the straight, smooth and combed hair (although i dont like it with my layered hair)
Euphony
July 15th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Whether it is bad or less bad, I don't really like the look of how far up the list it is. Same with fragrance.
My thoughts on it being far up on the list is that things below it are in EXTREMELY minute amounts and the things above comprise a HUGE majority of the finished product. Fragrance and essential oils are generally used at around 2-5% depending, preservatives are used at no more than 0.5-1.5% depending.
flapjack
July 15th, 2008, 05:01 PM
They're selling stuff with limonene in the EU? I wonder if it's because the brand of the product is not made by a company in the EU. I'm not sure how those laws work, exactly.
Formaldehyde is a tiny aldehyde with carbon, oxygen and hydrogen. It's similar in structure to water, but completely different in its effects. It's toxic, allergenic, carcinogenic, etc. It's used as a short-term fixative for dead organic matter (when you dissected animals in high school biology, that horrible smell was the formaldehyde). It's generally not found in any living being except in tiiiiiiiiiny amounts during metabolic processes, where it becomes something else very quickly. It is not meant to be ingested and it isn't water soluble, so it's not taken out of the body through the kidneys. There are cases of it accumulating in organs in the body and becoming carcinogenic. That's why people freak out over any compound that can be broken down into formaldehyde going anywhere near or in the body. The EPA in the US, the EU, the Japanese govt. and many other countries don't allow it in anything used for food, cosmetics or construction. But the three organizations can differ as far as the compounds that can break down into formaldehyde, such as the hydantoin. There are certain requirements for how much formaldehyde release is deemed safe and so on.
As far as the list/order of ingredients... can't be trusted. There are laws determining how much can be in there and it's very very small. There is no doubt that it's mostly carbomer and copolymer because that's basically what gel literally IS. But other than that, there really is no telling.
I'm glad my nerdiness can be helpful. :) When it comes to the actual effects of gels on hair, I have no idea and I'm not the right person to ask. I'm a permanent member of the straight and long hair club, I've never owned gel. I am, however, addicted to coconut oil, haha.
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Some things like coconut oil seem to span many hair textures. Others don't, lol.
brok3nwings
July 15th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Euphony yes i thought that too... but who knows!
flapjack Hmm..do you think if i put a drop of the gel about two times a week could give me enough amout of the toxic stuff to make harm to my health? And if its not soluble in water does it mean i have to wash my hair more often as if it was silicones? (i dont use silicones cause i wash my hair with shampoos without sulfates..)
flapjack
July 15th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Coconut oil and I might be having an affair, don't tell my bf. :whistle: :eyebrows:
I think you could use the whole bottle of it on your head in one sitting and be fine, haha. I should specify this better the next time I bring up chemicals, that was my fault. A lot of these kinds of chemical issues become problems with accumulation. Meaning, don't use the same chemicals if you have reason to believe they might cause an issue over and over in large amounts in many of your cosmetics and foods. The old phrase about too much of anything being a bad thing really is true. Same concept for completely natural products. Don't use a ton of the same things over and over on your skin and in your body. Change it up, use only what you need, water it down if possible.
And even if it's not soluble in water, it will come out with mild shampoo or conditioner. In my experiences, conditioners can take just about anything off of your hair. I put honey, pure castor oil and all kinds of sticky gunk in my hair and conditioner with all natural ingredients and a couple mild preservatives takes it right out.
Riot Crrl
July 15th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Coconut oil and I might be having an affair, don't tell my bf. :whistle: :eyebrows:
I think you could use the whole bottle of it on your head in one sitting and be fine, haha. I should specify this better the next time I bring up chemicals, that was my fault. A lot of these kinds of chemical issues become problems with accumulation. Meaning, don't use the same chemicals if you have reason to believe they might cause an issue over and over in large amounts in many of your cosmetics and foods. The old phrase about too much of anything being a bad thing really is true. Same concept for completely natural products. Don't use a ton of the same things over and over on your skin and in your body. Change it up, use only what you need, water it down if possible.
Word. Rotating products gives me better hair results anyway. I know that's supposed to be a myth, but it does. On me. YMMV.
brok3nwings
July 15th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Ohh no...!!! Let me explain my "oh no"...here in Portugal i have none good natural products...reallyy really... well i will for sure have to order it from internet. I´ve been using all the products i´ve bought in New York...i think i have spend a lot, but i only bought conditioners and stuff for my hair...lollo i am really crazy. Anyway... i am really happy to have oppened this thread :) those were really helpful and wize advices..
Thank you so much Riot Crrl and flapjack
I can tell you, since i opened this, i have washed my hair, put just a tiny bit of the gel with aloe vera and coconut oil..and as far as i can tell it is really working. I have a bit more waves but it isnt dry at all (i have put a really small amout)
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