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HintOfMint
January 10th, 2012, 10:25 AM
I thought I knew it allllllll (sang to Adele's Rolling in the Deep)...

I thought I was doing really well with CWC, but I decided to clarify on a whim.

I clarified with Neutrogena Anti-Residue, roots to ends.

Then I CWCed with a cone free and protein free conditioner and Head and Shoulders shampoo.

My hair is like silk! I've never had this before! It's usually soft but still coarse and dry, even though it was markedly better with CWC.

I've experimented with this enough to deduce that it is the clarifying with a very simple shampoo that leaves no residue that has been making my hair like this.

I've tried it a few times in a row, with the same lovely results.

I want to be able to have this hair all the time but I'm worried about clarifying too much and drying out my hair. Since I'm basically double conditioning afterwards, is that enough to mitigate any drying? Should I oil before hand? I already wash every 3 to 4 days, so at least I'm not washing that often.

Thoughts?

aisha.christine
January 10th, 2012, 10:49 AM
In my experience with clarifying, my hair stays really nice for about three weeks, then it loses the shine and softness it had. I usually take this as a sign that I probably need to clarify again. To prevent having dry hair, I do a deep treatment before I clarify, and then do my standard wash.
Try going a couple washes with your regular shampoo and see how your hair feels. If it goes back to feeling gross, maybe you could try using a gentle clarifying shampoo instead of your regular shampoo and just stretch your washes?

spidermom
January 10th, 2012, 10:55 AM
Clarifying is terrific, but I wouldn't plan to do it every wash.

I remember having to wash my hair three times in a row a few years ago to get the snake musk out of it. My hair was so silky and nice after that. But long-term, I don't think shampooing my hair three times in a row every wash day would be a good idea.

Amber_Maiden
January 10th, 2012, 10:57 AM
I'd do it when your hair needs it, not more than once a month.

Mina17
January 10th, 2012, 11:48 AM
My hair is silky after Head & Shoulders shampoo also. I assumed it was due to the dimethicone in it.

MoreWhenNuh
January 10th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I was shocked when I first started clarifying too. It leaves my hair so soft and silky. I though my hair needed all the cones and junk I coated it with at all times but once in a while my hair loves a clean start!

Mommyof4
January 10th, 2012, 12:02 PM
What do/did you all clarify with?? I'm thinking I definitely need to clarify!

heidi w.
January 10th, 2012, 12:19 PM
If you oil prior to clarifying it's kind of a waste since clarifying removes everything off the top of the cuticle, including oil. Oiling is a coating on top of the hair; it is generally not absorbed a whole lot by the hair itself.

heidi w.

heidi w.
January 10th, 2012, 12:20 PM
What do/did you all clarify with?? I'm thinking I definitely need to clarify!

In her first post she gave the name of the product she used.

heidi w.

heidi w.
January 10th, 2012, 12:21 PM
There is just no reason, for the average head of hair, to clarify hair wash every single time you shampoo.

heidi w.

balticbabe
January 10th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Mine too. I had never clarified until I found this forum. When my hair looked dull I figured it was damaged and/or because I'm getting old. After my first clarifying wash my hair was so shiny. Why didn't someone suggest a clarifying shampoo before?


Don't think it's necessary to clarify very often. Just when your hair looks like it needs it.

Mommyof4
January 10th, 2012, 12:35 PM
In her first post she gave the name of the product she used.

heidi w.

Yes, I saw that, I was asking everyone who posted on this thread what they clarify with.

spidermom
January 10th, 2012, 12:46 PM
I use whatever shampoo I have on hand but full strength from scalp to ends. Generally I dilute it and only wash at the scalp. Most of the time, the suds running through my hair in the rinse is cleansing enough, but every so often - once a month or less - I need a deeper clean.

Coconut oil does penetrate the hair shaft; science has proven it. Other oils do too.

MoreWhenNuh
January 10th, 2012, 01:09 PM
I use VO5 kiwi clarifying shampoo.

WaitingSoLong
January 10th, 2012, 01:16 PM
I NOW use Joico chelating shampoo. Before I just used VO5 clarifying shampoo. I have to do it several times with VO5, only once with Joico and got so much better results. I have very hard wwater, even with a softener, so that is probably why.

I highly recommend the Joico. It was $12 at the wal-mart beauty salon. Only takes a little and since you don't clarify all the time, it will probably last me a couple years!

sfgirl
January 10th, 2012, 01:49 PM
I use VO5 kiwi clarifying shampoo.

Would you recommend this shampoo? I just realized I need to buy a clarifying shampoo, and I'm on a bit of a tight budget so vO5 works. :)

Alibran
January 10th, 2012, 02:00 PM
Can someone tell me (or point me to a thread that explains) what's different about clarifying/chelating shampoos as opposed to shampoos that you'd use every time you wash if you're a shampoo user?

Clytemnestra
January 10th, 2012, 02:19 PM
Would you recommend this shampoo? I just realized I need to buy a clarifying shampoo, and I'm on a bit of a tight budget so vO5 works. :)

I just picked up this product and was really amazed too how soft my hair was afterwards. I only plan on using it once a week or every other week, because I think it would defeat my purpose of oiling every day. I also added the VO5 condish with protein (used as CO) once a week to offset the weekend moisture SMT treatments, hopefully creating a nice balance of protein/moisture and oiling/clarifying.
I dunno, that's my goal for now anyways.

ladyshep
January 10th, 2012, 02:50 PM
I had to clarify all of the time using cones. I just tried the Vo5 clarifying shampoo and it is great and it is cheap. All of the other Vo5 shampoos are great too. It took all of the static out of my hair. All of the salon formulas I tried couldn't do that. And it is only what 89 cents? Try the Vo5 clarifying!

arcane
January 10th, 2012, 03:33 PM
I CWC and my hair loves loves loves clarifying as well (I use the same clarifying shampoo as well). I tend to do it every two or three weeks, as I find with the shampoo and conditioner I use doesn't build up very much, and typically the coconut oil washes out easily enough. Currently I'm not clarifying as I use the clarifying shampoo in bleach baths that I'm lightening my hair with. Can't wait until I can get back to my regular routine because my hair loves it so much.

girlcat36
January 10th, 2012, 03:39 PM
For the longest time, I thought my hair was too fine and fragile for clarifying but I was so wrong! I clarify every week or two(5-6 shampoos in between clarifying). I used to use Joico Chelating Shampoo and I loved it, but now I am using a baking soda rinse.
I do worry about overdoing it, but my hair likes it and is that much better for it.
I get build up very quickly on my hair.

jeanniet
January 10th, 2012, 04:46 PM
I use the Joico chelating shampoo, too. I have well water and need the chelation effect on top of the clarifying. I really like this shampoo. I usually follow with the K-Pak Reconstructor because at that point I need a protein boost. I don't do it unless I feel like my hair needs it, though. Clarifying/chelation is pretty hard on the hair, and while it's necessary at times and feels great afterward, I don't want to push my luck!

HintOfMint
January 16th, 2012, 10:44 PM
Update!

So I'm going to clarify again tomorrow. I haven't clarified in a while, and frankly, my hair gets significantly less silky with every wash I do without clarifying beforehand. I'm going to start clarifying every week, which comes down to every other wash. I take good care of my hair, I think I deserve to have silky hair the vast majority of the time, and not just on the blue moon I allow myself to use a clarifying shampoo.

I thought my hair didn't like shampoo and now I'm thinking it just doesn't like the large amount of additives in most shampoos. For instance, I've used head and shoulders on the length, and it was terrible, even though its great for my scalp. That's why I CWC with it, so it doesn't get on the ends. Most shampoos are terrible on my ends but most shampoos aren't meant to clarify.

Just to clear things up, I was thinking of oiling beforehand to sort of "gunk up" my hair so the clarifying shampoo doesn't rough up my hair too much. Basically, whenever I've clarified, is when I've had serious buildup but I can imagine that it may be too much for hair that is reasonably clean to begin with.

RapunzelKat
January 16th, 2012, 10:55 PM
I also use the Neutrogena No-Residue shampoo to clarify - I just found it about a month ago. I've never had anything clarify my hair and scalp so thoroughly! :) I've learned that about every 3-4 washes (once every two weeks or so) is about right for me. It's strong stuff and more than that seems to bother my scalp. I use extra oil afterwards to help balance out the slight dryness it causes.

If you're using the same one I'm thinking of, the box it came in recommended using it once a week. That was a bit too much for my scalp, but whatever makes your hair happiest - go for it ;) Good luck with your clarifying tomorrow! :D

ETA: HintOfMint, if you don't mind my asking, do you have hard water where you live? I never needed to clarify my hair until I moved to a place with hard water. Something about it just builds up on my hair and makes it lank and lifeless.

HintOfMint
January 16th, 2012, 11:21 PM
ETA: HintOfMint, if you don't mind my asking, do you have hard water where you live? I never needed to clarify my hair until I moved to a place with hard water. Something about it just builds up on my hair and makes it lank and lifeless.


After a bit of a search, I found that I do have pretty hard water where I live at the moment. However, when I visited my home in California, I found that I still needed to clarify to get that silky feeling for my hair, even though the water isn't as hard. Interesting, I never thought about water hardness before, Someone else recommended the Joico chelating shampoo and that it was at WalMart. I've been having such a difficult time finding it, hopefully I'll find it at the WalMart close to me.

I have yet to clarify here where I live, so hopefully that will restore that silky feeling just as it did in California.

shikara
January 16th, 2012, 11:41 PM
Diluted lemon juice is great for hard water, as is club soda, and chelating is different than clarifying, so im wondering whats in the products that are doing both for you.

sycamoreboutiqu
January 16th, 2012, 11:57 PM
Since I do only CO these days, no cones and no products other than Aloe and Coconut Oil I guess I don't really need to clairfy - but rather chelate to combat the iron etc in the water (which is so bad here that in spite of a water softener AND an Iron remover unit we still have rusty water).

I have been achieving this with just a simple mix of a teaspoon of baking soda in a handful of condish. Works better than using shampoo (which I no longer have any of anyway ...). Hair is immediately softer and more flexible and feels like I always wanted it to.

The other day though I used a consish that for some reason I had been avoiding - and NOW I remember why. It was a big bottle of the Sauve Coconut conditioner and I seemed to remember there was something I didn't like about it - but used it anyway for my last CO.

Oh, what a mistake. Hair was stiff and crunchy when it rinsed out. I immediately grabbed the baking soda - mixed it in another condish and left on for less than 2 min and rinsed and conditioned again. Success - hair felt fine again.

So I took a closer look at the ingredients and sure enough Silk Amino Acids (I read that as Silk Protein). My hair hates too much protein.

So - my discovery here would be that baking soda also removed excess protein in addition to the minerals it usually does. So, does that mean that it also clarifies ?

Does anyone else just use baking soda for clarifying ?

Maybe if I was using cones and products I would need more than just the BS - but I say try it and see what happens, just don't leave it on a long time (it is salt after all) and see what you think.

MonaLisa
January 17th, 2012, 01:05 AM
I've never really clarified, I think :o
Must try this sometime...

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 04:04 AM
Clarifying with a good clarifying shampoo, without issues of its own like the Neutrogena can make a great difference in how the hair feels and behaves. I do not think any clarifying should be overdone.

It depends on the situation and the clarifying product though. Some are gentler than others. The risk taken is that the hair can become dry or very dry. A simpler solution is to use less build-up causing products as the amounts used can make clarifying needed sooner than later.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=224

PinkyCat
January 17th, 2012, 07:07 AM
I just got Giovanni 50:50 Moisturizing/Clarifying shampoo. I LOVE it. I feel so much better using this than what I was using: Queen Helene Mint Julep Shampoo, which has propylene glycol as the third ingredient! Yeah, that's anifreeze. shudder:

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 07:10 AM
I just got Giovanni 50:50 Moisturizing/Clarifying shampoo. I LOVE it. I feel so much better using this than what I was using: Queen Helene Mint Julep Shampoo, which has propylene glycol as the third ingredient! Yeah, that's anifreeze. shudder:

Not exactly, lol. Cosmetic propylene glycol is not antifreeze. Another myth brought to by marketers.

If you prefer the Giovanni, great. I just hate marketing hype.

ETA: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/1198/propylene-glycol.aspx

PinkyCat
January 17th, 2012, 07:13 AM
Not exactly, lol. Cosmetic propylene glycol is not antifreeze. Another myth brought to by marketers.

If you prefer the Giovanni, great. I just hate marketing hype.

LOL. Glad I didn't dump the leftovers in my car then! :)

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 07:14 AM
LOL. Glad I didn't dump the leftovers in my car then! :)

Yeah, really, lol.

ETA: More on propylene glycol, http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=51

HintOfMint
January 17th, 2012, 07:38 AM
Clarifying with a good clarifying shampoo, without issues of its own like the Neutrogena can make a great difference in how the hair feels and behaves. I do not think any clarifying should be overdone.

It depends on the situation and the clarifying product though. Some are gentler than others. The risk taken is that the hair can become dry or very dry. A simpler solution is to use less build-up causing products as the amounts used can make clarifying needed sooner than later.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=224

Thank you for the article! Are there any gentle clarifiers you would recommend?

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 07:43 AM
Thank you for the article! Are there any gentle clarifiers you would recommend?

You are very welcome.

I would go with Neutrogena Anti Residue Shampoo. There are conditioning clarifying shampoos out there which mystify me because they add coatings of their own lol, which also build-up.

Other than that one you can try your own version of a baking soda solution and not make it too strong. If you are unfamiliar with using baking soda for hair, it can get tricky to adjust the dilution, but not that difficult.

HintOfMint
January 17th, 2012, 07:51 AM
You are very welcome.

I would go with Neutrogena Anti Residue Shampoo. There are conditioning clarifying shampoos out there which mystify me because they add coatings of their own lol, which also build-up.

Other than that one you can try your own version of a baking soda solution and not make it too strong. If you are unfamiliar with using baking soda for hair, it can get tricky to adjust the dilution, but not that difficult.

Great, I already have that! Yay for not buying more products!

UltraBella
January 17th, 2012, 07:54 AM
I NOW use Joico chelating shampoo. Before I just used VO5 clarifying shampoo. I have to do it several times with VO5, only once with Joico and got so much better results. I have very hard wwater, even with a softener, so that is probably why.

I highly recommend the Joico. It was $12 at the wal-mart beauty salon. Only takes a little and since you don't clarify all the time, it will probably last me a couple years!

I love this too !!! It works so well for me !
I also use their K-Pak products with protein and I discovered that my hair LOVES protein, when I combine the chelating with a protein conditioner afterwards, it's hair heaven for me.

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 07:59 AM
Great, I already have that! Yay for not buying more products!

Yes I know, and from your results, I would stay with it. From reports in another thread, it worked well and was not reported to be harsh. I would not overuse it though. It is not intended to be used often, only when needed.

ETA: The use once a week direction is all well and good but not in my opinion, necessary at all,
http://www.drugstore.com/neutrogena-shampoo-anti-residue-formula/qxp14485

Go by how your hair looks feels and reacts. It is like "shampoo, rinse, repeat." It sells more shampoo because you use it up faster, not because it is needed.

rena
January 17th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Can someone tell me (or point me to a thread that explains) what's different about clarifying/chelating shampoos as opposed to shampoos that you'd use every time you wash if you're a shampoo user?

Alibran, I believe what distinguishes a clarifying shampoo from a shampoo that someone uses regularly is that a clarifying shampoo tends to be much more harsh with no coating ingredients like silicones, proteins, or oils to cushion the blow of heavy cleansing, just sulfates. You would use a shampoo like this to remove buildup from the ingredients listed above found in the non-clarifying shampoos and conditioners. A chelating shampoo, on the other hand, is meant for taking off hard water buildup from your hair. As far as I know, only a chelating shampoo can remove this kind of buildup, not a regular clarifying shampoo.

So, Clarifying shampoo for removing coating ingredients, Chelating shampoo for removing hard water buildup. Hope this helps :blossom:.

blondie9912
January 17th, 2012, 02:11 PM
I NOW use Joico chelating shampoo. Before I just used VO5 clarifying shampoo. I have to do it several times with VO5, only once with Joico and got so much better results. I have very hard wwater, even with a softener, so that is probably why.

I highly recommend the Joico. It was $12 at the wal-mart beauty salon. Only takes a little and since you don't clarify all the time, it will probably last me a couple years!

I've been meaning to try this for a while! Definitely will now :)

RapunzelKat
January 17th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Diluted lemon juice is great for hard water, as is club soda, and chelating is different than clarifying, so im wondering whats in the products that are doing both for you.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/lmarie29/th_2a283f57.jpg (http://s1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/lmarie29/?action=view&current=2a283f57.jpg)


Alibran, I believe what distinguishes a clarifying shampoo from a shampoo that someone uses regularly is that a clarifying shampoo tends to be much more harsh with no coating ingredients like silicones, proteins, or oils to cushion the blow of heavy cleansing, just sulfates. You would use a shampoo like this to remove buildup from the ingredients listed above found in the non-clarifying shampoos and conditioners. A chelating shampoo, on the other hand, is meant for taking off hard water buildup from your hair. As far as I know, only a chelating shampoo can remove this kind of buildup, not a regular clarifying shampoo.

So, Clarifying shampoo for removing coating ingredients, Chelating shampoo for removing hard water buildup. Hope this helps :blossom:.

Hmm, the results I'm getting must just be from removal of product buildup, then. Perhaps I need to try chelating every now and then as well. :hmm: Diluted lemon juice sounds easy, and I love the smell of lemons ;)

I have noticed that seems tougher to rinse shampoo/condish out in the hard water than it was in soft water, so maybe that's why I'm getting more product buildup in the hard water.

WaitingSoLong
January 17th, 2012, 07:41 PM
The Joico chelating poo has clarifying as a claim in its label, not just chelating (7ways it says...?).

I am really wondering how often I can safely clarify, too. I, too, seem to need to do it about every other shampoo, but I don't. I am afraid of overdrying and damaging my hair.

I know I need both chalting and clarifying, I am a heavy cone user. Yet ironically, after I clarified, I found I didn't NEED the cones to make my hair manageable and silky. Interesting.

I have been too chicken to try the baking soda due to bad experiences I have read about. At one point I had tried to do CO washes and I wonder if this would be possible if I stayed off cones and mixed a teeny bit of BS in with my cone-free condish (I use GF3N). Even if I could just get rid of cones completely, then I wouldn't even need to clarify so often, just chelate once in awhile. As it is, I am only clarifying like, every 10th wash or less. I wash twice a week or every 5 days in winter.

Life is just one hair experiment after another.

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 08:01 PM
The Joico chelating poo has clarifying as a claim in its label, not just chelating (7ways it says...?).

I am really wondering how often I can safely clarify, too. I, too, seem to need to do it about every other shampoo, but I don't. I am afraid of overdrying and damaging my hair.

I know I need both chalting and clarifying, I am a heavy cone user. Yet ironically, after I clarified, I found I didn't NEED the cones to make my hair manageable and silky. Interesting.

I have been too chicken to try the baking soda due to bad experiences I have read about. At one point I had tried to do CO washes and I wonder if this would be possible if I stayed off cones and mixed a teeny bit of BS in with my cone-free condish (I use GF3N). Even if I could just get rid of cones completely, then I wouldn't even need to clarify so often, just chelate once in awhile. As it is, I am only clarifying like, every 10th wash or less. I wash twice a week or every 5 days in winter.

Life is just one hair experiment after another.

This is what I mean about marketing claims. They are not stictly defined.

Joico Chelating Shampoo - colour added by me
http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=100554/Chelating_shampoo_(k-pak_line)/Joico/Shampoo
Ingredients
"Water/Aqua/Eau, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Cocamide MEA, Glycol Stearate, Cetyl Alcohol, Cocambopropyl Betaine, Stearic Acid, hydrolyzed Hair Keratin, Laurdimonium Hodroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Hair Keratin, Hydrolyzed Keratin PG-Propyl Methylsilanediol, Thioctic Acid, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Psidium Guajava Fruit Extract, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil, Aleurites Moluccana Seed oil, Glycolipids, Hyaluronic Acid, Allantoin, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Dimethicone PEG-7 Cocoate, Hydroxyethycellulose, Acrylates/Aminoacrylates/c10-30 Alkyl PEG-20 Itaconate Copolymer, Pentasodium Pentetate, Benzophenone-4, Glycerin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Starch, Citric Acid, Sodium Chloride, Aminomethyl Propanol, DMDM Hydantoin, Methychloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance/Parfum."

Everything in blue coats hair and can build-up. No wonder you did not need cones. One is in there too. Clarify? Not by my definition of removing all coatings that have caused build-up when this shampoo is adding more that do at the same time. It replaced another Joico shampoo that was more cleansing.

ETA: Evening primrose oil? It is a drying oil that turns resinous on exposure to oxygen. Will this shampoo chelate? Yes.

ETA:2 Aleurites Moluccana Seed oil is kukui oil and is a drying oil too. This shampoo is not harsh at all. It is just not a good clarifying shampoo.

WaitingSoLong
January 17th, 2012, 08:06 PM
Hmm, so maybe it is not as harsh as it sounds. I would love to use it every time I wash. Of course I use Pantene S&C in one as my poo so this HAS to be more clarifying than that LOL.
I didn't use Joico because of marketing (how does one even receive marketing for such a product? I guess since I don't watch TV I am completely out of the marketing loop). I cannot even recall the last time I saw an add. Even the ones on TLHC, I don't ever evenglance at them. In fact, I JUST looked at the one above where I am typing and cannot even figure out what the product is supposed to be.

I used Joico because it was tried and recommended here on TLHC and I had never chelated before.

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 08:11 PM
Hmm, so maybe it is not as harsh as it sounds. I would love to use it every time I wash. Of course I use Pantene S&C in one as my poo so this HAS to be more clarifying than that LOL.
I didnt use Joico because of marketing (how does one even receive marketing for such a product? I guess since I don't watch TV I am completely out of the marketing loop). I cannot even recall the last time I saw an add. Even the ones on TLHC, I don't ever evenglance at them. In fact, iJUST looked at the one above where I am yping and cannot even figure out what the product is supposed to be.

Marketing is what is on the bottle in terms of claims, not just print ads or television. Conditioning clarifying shampoos or ones like this that can help remove some things, although to me it is a mess for clarifying, satisfy the consumer demand to be able to use it more often for a specific need. This will chelate but not remove product build-up well if that is what is needed too and it is primarily what the name says, a chelating shampoo.

ktani
January 17th, 2012, 08:32 PM
Hmm, so maybe it is not as harsh as it sounds. I would love to use it every time I wash.

I added a few things to my post analyzing the ingredients. It is not a harsh shampoo at all to me. You could use it more often. However, be prepared to clarify with a good clarifying shampoo at some point, if you do so.

Neotrogena Anti-Residue Shampoo is reported here to be gentle and would be a good choice.

MandyBeth
January 17th, 2012, 08:44 PM
Clarifying - once every 3 weeks with Neutrogena Anti-Residue, followed with SMT. Chelating - weekly with club soda, distilled water rinse, then acid rinse. I tried it the other way, my hair was grumpy.

akilina
January 17th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Coney or not up to your standards...i LOVE Joico chelating shampoo. I bought it from my work last night because I figured I would try clarifying on a whim and the results I got were just amazing. I didn't know my hair could feel so good! Maybe I'd get an even better result with something a little different though, so Im not closed minded.
It made my hair feel so so so dry though after until I used conditioner but that is to be expected.

beachgirlla
January 17th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Sorry, I have a stupid question, LOL
What does CWC mean exactly = you wet your hair, wash it with conditioner, remove the conditioner with water and then put conditioner again as a leave in and that's it, keep it on?
OR you wash with conditioner one time, then dry it then the next time you wash you wash it with regular shampoo, dry it and then the next time you wash your hair you do the conditioner again, can someone nicely explain this to me without sending me links as I have a huge migraine these days :( and have no desire to go and look for it, lol :D

WaitingSoLong
January 18th, 2012, 05:46 AM
Neotrogena Anti-Residue Shampoo is reported here to be gentle and would be a good choice.

Right now I use VO5 t o clarify but am not real impressed with it. I seem to be allergic to something in Neutrogena products and me and my allergist could never figure it out, so I just avoid all Neutrogena products now :( However I will take other suggestions for when I am out of VO5. I won't buy a new product until the old is used up.


Sorry, I have a stupid question, LOL
What does CWC mean exactly

Not a stupid question, I don't have a link to explain, either, other than just doing a web search.

CWC is condition-wash-condition, done all in the same hair washing session. By conditioning first, it is supposed to protect the hair from the harshness of the shampoo, then follow with conditioner again to prevent dryness and damage from shampoo chemicals when shampoo is desired. There is also a CO method, which is conditioner only. HTH.

ktani
January 18th, 2012, 05:55 AM
Right now I use VO5 t o clarify but am not real impressed with it. I seem to be allergic to something in Neutrogena products and me and my allergist could never figure it out, so I just avoid all Neutrogena products now :( However I will take other suggestions for when I am out of VO5. I won't buy a new product until the old is used up.

Allergies and sensitivities make choices a lot more difficult - been there more than once.

Prell in the bottle is an excellent clarifying shampoo, in my opinion. It is strong and stronger than the Neutrogena. However, if it is not overused, that should not be a problem.

WaitingSoLong
January 18th, 2012, 06:22 AM
OMGosh we used Prell growing up! Memories.....I can even smell it in my mind!
Thanks! I will probably try that.

My reaction to neutrogena was horrible! I was so afraid my hair would fall out. My scalp swelled up and hurt really bad and was red. When I used their face wash, it broke me out terrible...not quite hives, but not quite a rash and not acne. It was just weird. Same thing with the body bars. 3 strikes and you're out!

I have lots of sensitivities and allergies. I just recently found a fragranced bar soap I THINK is not causing me issues. It is Dial (glycerine) pomegranate cranberry. It is just alot of trial and error. At least I finally solved the laundry issue . I just can't use liquid fabric softener, even the fragrance free type. Anyway, getting OT.

But I am starting to see what you mean with marketing. the bright packaging and shape of bottles to draw attention, and even though I don't see/hear the commercials, others do and thus a brand becomes popular and gets a larger space on the aisle.

I pretty much always ask for recommendations when it comes to uncharted territory, and it has to be tried and true not "I heard....". Since we are tight budgeted, I always opt for the cheap/effective balance (hence the VO5 trial) and always make sure the old product gets used, even if it becomes bubble bath for my dd or car wash!

ktani
January 18th, 2012, 06:52 AM
OMGosh we used Prell growing up! Memories.....I can even smell it in my mind!
Thanks! I will probably try that.

My reaction to neutrogena was horrible! I was so afraid my hair would fall out. My scalp swelled up and hurt really bad and was red. When I used their face wash, it broke me out terrible...not quite hives, but not quite a rash and not acne. It was just weird. Same thing with the body bars. 3 strikes and you're out!

I have lots of sensitivities and allergies. I just recently found a fragranced bar soap I THINK is not causing me issues. It is Dial (glycerine) pomegranate cranberry. It is just alot of trial and error. At least I finally solved the laundry issue . I just can't use liquid fabric softener, even the fragrance free type. Anyway, getting OT.

But I am starting to see what you mean with marketing. the bright packaging and shape of bottles to draw attention, and even though I don't see/hear the commercials, others do and thus a brand becomes popular and gets a larger space on the aisle.

I pretty much always ask for recommendations when it comes to uncharted territory, and it has to be tried and true not "I heard....". Since we are tight budgeted, I always opt for the cheap/effective balance (hence the VO5 trial) and always make sure the old product gets used, even if it becomes bubble bath for my dd or car wash!

You are very welcome.

How horrible to have gone through all of that. My reactions have been painful but not nearly as severe.

Prell was bought out a good while ago. Another problem with all of this is that ingredient lists can change without notice.

Considering what happened with Neutrogena products, I would avoid them too.

I suggest before using the Prell, doing a patch test, or two.

ETA: By bought out I mean that Prell is now under new ownership. I believe the fragrance is similar to what it was back when. The new version is what has been reported here to work well. I do not know however, if ingredients have been changed since then. A problem with online ingredient lists is that a website may not be updated.

ETA:2 To make things more complicated, stores sell older product and newer product sometimes at the same time, as they reorder. It can be a guessing game as to which product is the new one, as dates can be close, if there are any on the packaging, lol.

HintOfMint
January 18th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Clarified, and used the exact same routine as in California... rough awful hair, not at all like the silk I had with the same routine prior.

It has to be a hard water thing.

Back to the drawing board.

patienceneeded
January 18th, 2012, 02:36 PM
OMGosh we used Prell growing up! Memories.....I can even smell it in my mind!
Thanks! I will probably try that.

My reaction to neutrogena was horrible! I was so afraid my hair would fall out. My scalp swelled up and hurt really bad and was red. When I used their face wash, it broke me out terrible...not quite hives, but not quite a rash and not acne. It was just weird. Same thing with the body bars. 3 strikes and you're out!

I have lots of sensitivities and allergies. I just recently found a fragranced bar soap I THINK is not causing me issues. It is Dial (glycerine) pomegranate cranberry. It is just alot of trial and error. At least I finally solved the laundry issue . I just can't use liquid fabric softener, even the fragrance free type. Anyway, getting OT.

I have the exact same problem with Neutrogena products! When they first came out with makeup I bought some of their foundation...what a mistake! My entire face broke out in a rash/hives and was red and itchy/bumpy for an entire week. That was after only one use! The Anti-Residue shampoo that the OP mentioned strips my hair and scalp of everything and leaves me with a dry, frizzy, itchy red mess. I have eczema and have to be very careful about what I use on my skin, most stuff with any type of dye or fragrance freaks out my skin. Thankfully, most natural products (non-synthetic) are okay.

jojo
January 18th, 2012, 03:42 PM
I love Joico chelating shampoo I dont even need a conditioner after using this, ive just run out but its well worth it. I also like treseme deep clean another one which makes my hair feel lovely.

I tend to use them once a month, i dont see any difference to using a clarifying or chelating. I know they do different things to hair but my hair feels just as nice with both!

HintOfMint
January 18th, 2012, 05:01 PM
Clarifying - once every 3 weeks with Neutrogena Anti-Residue, followed with SMT. Chelating - weekly with club soda, distilled water rinse, then acid rinse. I tried it the other way, my hair was grumpy.

How exactly do you do your chelating routine? Do you use conditioner when you do it? Do you shampoo the length beforehand?

I guess this question can be for everbody (help, Ktani!:o)

ktani
January 18th, 2012, 07:16 PM
How exactly do you do your chelating routine? Do you use conditioner when you do it? Do you shampoo the length beforehand?

I guess this question can be for everbody (help, Ktani!:o)

Club soda does not chelate minerals. It can remove mineral deposits from the hair and so can diluted vinegar. Chelating binds minerals and removes them. It is more thorough.

Chelating has nothing to do with removing product build-up from hair, just minerals. So, whether you condition or not, you can still chelate the minerals out of your hair.

ETA: You can also chelate your hair with a well diluted lemon juice rinse. Both ascorbic acid and citric acid are chelating agents.

ktani
January 18th, 2012, 07:36 PM
I love Joico chelating shampoo I dont even need a conditioner after using this, ive just run out but its well worth it. I also like treseme deep clean another one which makes my hair feel lovely.

I tend to use them once a month, i dont see any difference to using a clarifying or chelating. I know they do different things to hair but my hair feels just as nice with both!

I am not surprised that you love the Joico shampoo or that your hair feels better after using it. It is chelating minerals out of your hair by binding them and washing them out. The shampoo contains conditioning coatings including protein and if your hair loves protein, that can help your hair. It can be drying because of that too if your hair does not need protein or the extra coatings.

It is just not a good clarifying product removing shampoo, in my opinion.

ktani
January 18th, 2012, 08:03 PM
From the beautybrains 2008 - I am pretty sure I posted this a good while back.
http://thebeautybrains.com/2008/03/10/clarifying-chelating-and-neutralizing-shampoos/
"What is the difference between clarifying, chelating, and neutralizing shampoos and how important are any of them to good hair health?

... It depends on which clarifying, chelating, or neutralizing shampoos you’re talking about. That’s because all companies don’t follow the same definitions for their products. Some companies use these terms for marketing impact; they’re just a fancy way to say that the shampoo is cleaning your hair.

... Look for basic, cleansing without any added conditioners. If you see things like Dimethicone, Polyquaternium-7 or Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, on the label, the formula will probably deposit conditioners on your hair that you don’t want if you’re trying to clarify. ..."

ETA: Now, not all polymers, quats or silicones build-up on hair. Formulations can be sophisticated and ingredients vary as to being build-up causing or not. Sunsilk Lively Blonde Shampoo contains dimethiconal and a quaterimum ammonium compound and it does not cause build-up on my hair.

ETA:2 However, re the Joico shampoo, there are far too many coating ingredients and 2 drying oils for me to come to the conclusion that it is clarifying hair and not causing build-up. One of the first ingredients is a conditioning waxy ingredient. No sale.

ETA:3 To be exact, ingredients 6 and 8 are cetyl alcohol and stearic acid and both are waxy.

beachgirlla
January 18th, 2012, 08:25 PM
Not a stupid question, I don't have a link to explain, either, other than just doing a web search.

CWC is condition-wash-condition, done all in the same hair washing session. By conditioning first, it is supposed to protect the hair from the harshness of the shampoo, then follow with conditioner again to prevent dryness and damage from shampoo chemicals when shampoo is desired. There is also a CO method, which is conditioner only. HTH.

Thank you so much WaitingSoLong, I will do it with my next wash and see how I like it :)