Damage question

[kaiakai]

I couldn't find a thread on this specifically, but I have to ask.

I see all these threads on protective hairstyles, sleeping caps, friction damage, the sound of hairs snapping while combing or brushing, etc. (including a couple of posts from people who said they weren't concerned about that sound UNTIL they came to LHC!)

Actually, I don't even know really what to ask.. just want to hear your thoughts on damage, obsessing over damage/ npreventing damage, and so on. How can you tell whether one style or technique causes or prevents damage? (I'm not talking so much about damage from heat or chemical styling methods)

I'm all for healthy hair, but I have had long hair most of my life, and never really thought about damage much beyond being somewhat gentle while brushing my hair and not frying it with chemicals or heat. It seems that if your hair is healthy, then it shouldn't be necessary to be so concerned about "environmental" damage? Is the (to me, anyway, at this point) seemingly excessive concern about damage something that one starts to worry about once one gets to a certain length?

ETA: For those who use a t-shirt or other alternative method for drying hair, does a terrycloth towel really cause damage??

(I hope this didn't come out sounding snarky or rude in any way.. I'm just genuinely curious because I've never heard so much talk about hair damage)

[julliams]

I guess for me it's about being more aware. I'm close to your length and I do use a silk pillowcase but the only reason I put my hair up is because it's in my face when I'm cooking etc or I'm at work (work with children) so it has to be up to avoid nits.

Other than that, I wear my hair out often and I don't worry too much about possible damage from weather/environment etc. Having said that, seatbelts do annoy me and I do place my hair in a certain way so it won't get messed up or caught in the seatbelt.

[sazzie88]

Its funny because as a teen I used to have lovely very healthy (or so i thought) long hair nearly waist length. I used to constantly bleech and ( to my horror now) used to use an iron on my hair!
I never cared about what i did to my hair yet it was long and beautiful.


Now my hair is shoulder length and as i am trying to grow it I am obsessed about not even wanting to brush too much incase of damage its funny. One thing i do remember about long hair was it used to drive me mad when i wore it down and i would get it stuck under my handbag handle when it was on my shoulder!

[kaiakai]

Actually it's kind of funny.... I got together with my TBL BFF the other day (she lives in Denmark so I only see her maybe once a year), and her hair was such a mess.. in desperate need of detangling and so on. It was sort of uncomfortable for me to look at, LOL.

[Nannanej]

Hm, we seem to be hair twins, almost the same length too. I get lots of mechanical damage! I used to backcomb my hair, so a lot of it comes from that, but I also have a lot of damage from just letting my hair get tangled and then brushing it out. My hair is fine (like yours?), and even now that I'm treating it really well, it still splits and snaps very easily .. I don't have any chemical or heat damage, so it's all mechanical. Now of course I'm still dealing with old backcombing damage, but it's been at least a year since I started being a bit nicer to my hair, and the last 6 months I've been babying it. S&D-ing almost daily, microtrimming weekly, oiling often, wearing it up, never letting it tangle, really gentle shampoo bar washing + acv, all that stuff. I used to not be able to grow my hair past bsl because of mechanical damage, and it still has a lot of taper that I'm trying to get rid of. And still now that my hair is in better shape and has way less damage (soo much time spent S&D-ing, lol), I find that I have to be very careful with damage from friction, handling and so on. I don't know anything about your routine, but since you also have fine hair, I'd think we'd be in the same boat? :b But again, I'm still dealing with old backcombing damage as well. Normally though, I'd say that people with fine hair generally have to be more afraid of mechanical damage.
I hope that made sense, I feel like it didn't, but oh well... :D

[Nannanej]

Actually it's kind of funny.... I got together with my TBL BFF the other day (she lives in Denmark so I only see her maybe once a year), and her hair was such a mess.. in desperate need of detangling and so on. It was sort of uncomfortable for me to look at, LOL.

Oh, cool, you have a longhaired friend in Denmark? I'm from Denmark :D
Okay, sorry, that was kind of irrelevant and OT, haha. Just got excited.

[kaiakai]

Hm, we seem to be hair twins, almost the same length too. I get lots of mechanical damage! I used to backcomb my hair, so a lot of it comes from that, but I also have a lot of damage from just letting my hair get tangled and then brushing it out. My hair is fine (like yours?), and even now that I'm treating it really well, it still splits and snaps very easily .. I don't have any chemical or heat damage, so it's all mechanical. Now of course I'm still dealing with old backcombing damage, but it's been at least a year since I started being a bit nicer to my hair, and the last 6 months I've been babying it. S&D-ing almost daily, microtrimming weekly, oiling often, wearing it up, never letting it tangle, really gentle shampoo bar washing + acv, all that stuff. I used to not be able to grow my hair past bsl because of mechanical damage, and it still has a lot of taper that I'm trying to get rid of. And still now that my hair is in better shape and has way less damage (soo much time spent S&D-ing, lol), I find that I have to be very careful with damage from friction, handling and so on. I don't know anything about your routine, but since you also have fine hair, I'd think we'd be in the same boat? :b But again, I'm still dealing with old backcombing damage as well. Normally though, I'd say that people with fine hair generally have to be more afraid of mechanical damage.
I hope that made sense, I feel like it didn't, but oh well... :D

Yes, that makes sense, especailly if you are combating damage already done. I have always had an aversion to backcombing, though (I think I may have tried it once in my life).

I don't really notice any mechanical damage with my hair, or maybe I don't know what I'm looking for? The only thing I really worry about is my ends drying out, and I'm careful not to crunch my ends up when I put my hair in buns, etc. (Spin pins were a great discovery for this!!)

What does friction damage look like?

[kaiakai]

Oh, cool, you have a longhaired friend in Denmark? I'm from Denmark :D
Okay, sorry, that was kind of irrelevant and OT, haha. Just got excited.

:p

Yes, she's from Estonia but has been living in Copenhagen for years. There's an old photo of her in my hair album (her hair is much longer now, though)

[freckles]

I think it depends on both hairtype and length.
I have fine hair, and despite it being subjected to no chemical damage (at least, any that hasn't been looooong since cut off) and minimal heat damage (blowdrying about once - twice a month on average, on hot pre-LHC, on warm/cool post-LHC. And the front curled once in the current life of my hair) -- it shows a lot of damage on the ends. Splits everywhere, many of them monster splits. White dots and breakage. The only conclusion I can come to is that my hair is very susceptible to damage, and most of this is mechanical-environmental damage. Harsh brushing, handling badly, that kind of thing.
Length plays a big role because damage on hair is cumulative. Hair that has suffered two years' worth of being brushed harshly every day has not endured anywhere near the amount that it has by the time it is 4, 5, or 6+ years old with the same treatment.
(In other words -- I pretty much agree with Nannanej)

That said, your question about telling what is mechanically damaging -- that's a good one. I haven't got a good answer for that. I use a tangle teezer now and it SEEMS more gentle, but short of brushing one side of my hair with a tangle teezer and one side with a normal brush for years and years and then comparing the results, I can't know for sure :lol: And I don't think anyone should 'obsess' over damage -- they should cut down on damage where they're willing to, and compromise elsewhere. For example, I've tried a sleep cap and I can't do it. I already sleep badly and I can't find them comfortable, and my hair is not more important than that. So I don't use a sleep cap, even though it would be better for my hair. Haircare is all about balance with your other needs :)

[Nannanej]

Yes, that makes sense, especailly if you are combating damage already done. I have always had an aversion to backcombing, though (I think I may have tried it once in my life).

I don't really notice any mechanical damage with my hair, or maybe I don't know what I'm looking for? The only thing I really worry about is my ends drying out, and I'm careful not to crunch my ends up when I put my hair in buns, etc. (Spin pins were a great discovery for this!!)

What does friction damage look like?

Yeah, backcombing is pretty horrible, I used to do it all the time .. Then just rip through my hair with a brush when it was time for "detangling" (that is, after maybe 3-4 days of backcombing). .. yeah :(

Ooh, I really wanna try spin pins, but I can't find them anywhere, and the shipping gets expensive when buying them online. Where did you get yours?

Well, I guess friction damage is just a form of mechanical damage. I get splits from friction, as well as some "tapered" or uneven hairs; hairs that are thinner, almost colorless and very fragile in some spots. I guess from the cuticle wearing away?
I also get white dots, not at the ends, but maybe between 1-4 cm from the ends. Don't know what exactly those are from.

[Nannanej]

Oh, and have you tried going outside in bright daylight and really looking through your hair? That is where I can see most of my damage.

[kaiakai]

Ooh, I really wanna try spin pins, but I can't find them anywhere, and the shipping gets expensive when buying them online. Where did you get yours?


In the states... I just came back to Estonia this winter. Somewhere I saw a thread about finding spin pins in Europe though!?!?

[Nannanej]

In the states... I just came back to Estonia this winter. Somewhere I saw a thread about finding spin pins in Europe though!?!?

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=83612
Hm, this one? That's the only one I've found, and we don't have those shops here, so I guess my only option is ebay..

[kaiakai]

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=83612
Hm, this one? That's the only one I've found, and we don't have those shops here, so I guess my only option is ebay..

Yes, I think it was that one.

[Madora]

I couldn't find a thread on this specifically, but I have to ask.

I see all these threads on protective hairstyles, sleeping caps, friction damage, the sound of hairs snapping while combing or brushing, etc. (including a couple of posts from people who said they weren't concerned about that sound UNTIL they came to LHC!)

Actually, I don't even know really what to ask.. just want to hear your thoughts on damage, obsessing over damage/ npreventing damage, and so on. How can you tell whether one style or technique causes or prevents damage? (I'm not talking so much about damage from heat or chemical styling methods)

I'm all for healthy hair, but I have had long hair most of my life, and never really thought about damage much beyond being somewhat gentle while brushing my hair and not frying it with chemicals or heat. It seems that if your hair is healthy, then it shouldn't be necessary to be so concerned about "environmental" damage? Is the (to me, anyway, at this point) seemingly excessive concern about damage something that one starts to worry about once one gets to a certain length?

(I hope this didn't come out sounding snarky or rude in any way.. I'm just genuinely curious because I've never heard so much talk about hair damage)

I've never obsessed about damage because I learned early on (via an article about Dr. George Michael) on proper hair care.

Hair damage seems to vary from person to person, depending on what they do to it..and how strong (or not) their hair is.

The longer your hair becomes, the more careful you must be to protect the fragile ends. For me, this means wearing my hair up to avoid tangles and keeping it well brushed (with a pure bbb) every day. Although I have hair like iron, I S and D a little every day, just to keep slightly ahead of any damage that might pop up. As it is impossible to examine my entire hair length, I try and concentrate on the last 3 inches.

As far as what updo is less damaging I prefer braids as they contain my hair neatly and are comfortable. Also, thanks to LHC, I learned about wearing the braided bun on top of my head at night. For decades I'd always worn 2 loose braids for sleep. The next morning there would be a few tangles. However, once I switched to the loosely braided bun on top of my head, the difference was like day and night. It only takes 2 minutes to detangle my hair as opposed to the 4 minutes it took when I wore the bed braids. Less time detangling means less damage, so I was very happy to add this style to my repetoire.

Even if your hair is healthy, you should always be vigilant and stop damage if you see it..and avoid anything that might contribute to damaging it. Long, healthy, beautiful hair is the result of plenty of patience and TLC.

[cooklaezo13]

I noticed way less tangles, split ends, and dry, colorless damaged ends after I stopped rubbing my hair with a terrycloth towel two years ago (switched to wrapping it up in a microfiber towel). Also I used to wear my waistlength hair in the same pony tail everyday, and there were a lot of broken off, damaged hairs at the level where I would make the pony tail. Friction damage is definitely real.

[kaiakai]

I definitely don't rub my hair with my towel.. I just wrap it up like a turban and it doesn't seem like it would be damaging.

Thanks for the input, everyone!

Madora: do you have a link to that article, by any chance? I'd be interested to read it. All I could seem to find on his website was product advertising.

[sun-kissed]

I noticed way less tangles, split ends, and dry, colorless damaged ends after I stopped rubbing my hair with a terrycloth towel two years ago (switched to wrapping it up in a microfiber towel). Also I used to wear my waistlength hair in the same pony tail everyday, and there were a lot of broken off, damaged hairs at the level where I would make the pony tail. Friction damage is definitely real.

Especially for us fine-haired people. Even though I've slept on a silk pillowcase for three+ years, the left and back sides of my hair(the sides I sleep on) have always been damaged and much shorter than the right. I'm now trying to combat the problem by sleeping on different sides at night, and wearing my hair up over my head in a braid. Brushing and combing also is a problem for me, the only way to comb my hair without considerable breakage over time is to fingercomb. I can't use my BBB either, because it causes breakage near my part(resulting in fluff up top). My hair must drip-dry, terrycloth causes more damage than anything in my case. I don't use heat, and have never dyed/permed.. my hair is just really sensitive and TLC is a must if I want even a healthy BSL.

[Jean Stuart]

Terry cloth may also cause hair to look more frizzy.

[heidi w.]

I would never use a "terry cloth" towel on my hair. This fabric is already bumpy. A towel is bad enough. But I don't pile my hair on my head and rub. I instead wrap up the length and press. No rubbing ever. No need to over-friction and rub the cuticle.

Some damage is gonna happen, but if you generally watch the details, you'll fare better. Not everything can be entirely prevented, but if you are aware, you can greatly minimize potential for damage. Seams on combs; piling hair on the head; wearing hair up in winter and windy conditions; proper detangling method...that kind of thing.

heidi w.

[Amber_Maiden]

I think there is just so much you can do to prevent damage without going crazy. I wear my hair down when I want to. I do occasionally hear the sound of hair snapping- not often and I'm always careful, but there is only so much you can do.

As for the t-shirt vs. towel, I prefer T-shirt. Always have. My husband thinks it's weird, because I own no t-shirts and use his. :D :p

[Madora]

I definitely don't rub my hair with my towel.. I just wrap it up like a turban and it doesn't seem like it would be damaging.

Thanks for the input, everyone!

Madora: do you have a link to that article, by any chance? I'd be interested to read it. All I could seem to find on his website was product advertising.

I'll see if I can still find it (it was clipped from a hair magazine back in the 60s).

[holothuroidea]

Some people have hair that is more susceptible to damage than others. Usually fine hair is more fragile but you know your hair best.

I always get a couple snaps when I detangle, even when I do it in the shower with my hair full of conditioner. Using a brush instead of my comb helps but I have the crappiest comb ever (seamed plastic, medium tooth) and I desperately need a nice wide tooth comb.

I used to only use my fingers but it takes too long now that my hair is a little longer. My hair tangles very easily from washing and I have to wash every day. I only detangle the once in the shower.

So I try to avoid damage everywhere. I "press" my hair with a cloth diaper (birdseye cotton, similar to a t-shirt but more absorbent), then I flip my head upside down to loosen the hair from my scalp and after that I just let it drip dry. This actually has helped a lot.

Some people's hair will not grow past a certian length if it incurs regular damage because it just breaks off. My hair stayed at APL for over a year with no trims despite the fact that my hair grows an inch a month. I used to pile my hair on my head while washing with sulfate shampoo, rub it with a terry cloth towel to dry, rip through the tangles for 10 minutes when it was still damp with a plastic brush.

Although I never had a split, my ends faded away into nothing. I'm surprised it stayed as long as it was.

Anyway, this time I am definitely not doing those things because I want it to grow!

In addition to that, I used to pin my fringe out of my face with bobby pins every day and I noticed I had to put them in closer and closer to my part to get them to stay back until I realized it was because my hairs were breaking off where I was pinning them. Now I only use them for special occasions.

I also have to deal with a little tuft of hairs growing out of the front of my part from the damage. And I have the kind of hair that sticks straight up until it's 3 inches long. I look like a cockatoo!!

Some hair is more fragile than others. Mine happens to be very fragile, yours might not be so much.

[Madora]

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/GM1.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/GM2.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/GM3.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/07Erzbet/GM4.jpg

This article was dated 1965 - Fall - Hair magazine unknown.

[ElusiveMuse]

My hair is really susceptible to damage so I have to be more vigilant about how I treat it, but I'm not obsessive about it. I sometimes wear it down and I'm not as good about wearing protective sleep styles or having a satin pillow case as I could be. But I never use elastics or comb it roughly and I always oil it and S&D pretty frequently.

I probably shouldn't let my kitty nest in my hair or play with my braid ends.

[kaiakai]

Thanks, that was interesting. And sort of funny in parts. :)

[einna]

Madora: Very interesting article. Thanks. :)

[JuliaDancer]

I actually came to LHC because I started obsessing about damage. I had never had hair longer than BSL, and I was growing it to waist. I had never ever worried about damage even with some blow drying and infrequent heat styling, because my hair is pretty strong. However, at waist, I suddenly started noticing splits that I'd never had before. The older your ends get, the more frail they become, and the more care they need. Now I'm at tailbone, and my hair is nicer because of LHC methods and S&D-ing, so I'm less obsessed now, I think...

[jacqueline101]

When my hair was long in the past I'd worry about it getting under my purse or my shopping bags. I didn't wear my hair up back then.

[XcaliburGirl]

I never worried about damage when my hair was long before. I never heat styled, combed instead of brushing, and usually wore my hair in a ponytail, braid, or bun. I also was using 'cones, so I don't know if that helped protect it. I think my hair is just fairly resilient.

[beachgirlla]

Some people have hair that is more susceptible to damage than others. Usually fine hair is more fragile but you know your hair best.

I always get a couple snaps when I detangle, even when I do it in the shower with my hair full of conditioner. Using a brush instead of my comb helps but I have the crappiest comb ever (seamed plastic, medium tooth) and I desperately need a nice wide tooth comb.

I used to only use my fingers but it takes too long now that my hair is a little longer. My hair tangles very easily from washing and I have to wash every day. I only detangle the once in the shower.

So I try to avoid damage everywhere. I "press" my hair with a cloth diaper (birdseye cotton, similar to a t-shirt but more absorbent), then I flip my head upside down to loosen the hair from my scalp and after that I just let it drip dry. This actually has helped a lot.

Some people's hair will not grow past a certian length if it incurs regular damage because it just breaks off. My hair stayed at APL for over a year with no trims despite the fact that my hair grows an inch a month. I used to pile my hair on my head while washing with sulfate shampoo, rub it with a terry cloth towel to dry, rip through the tangles for 10 minutes when it was still damp with a plastic brush.

Although I never had a split, my ends faded away into nothing. I'm surprised it stayed as long as it was.

Anyway, this time I am definitely not doing those things because I want it to grow!

In addition to that, I used to pin my fringe out of my face with bobby pins every day and I noticed I had to put them in closer and closer to my part to get them to stay back until I realized it was because my hairs were breaking off where I was pinning them. Now I only use them for special occasions.

I also have to deal with a little tuft of hairs growing out of the front of my part from the damage. And I have the kind of hair that sticks straight up until it's 3 inches long. I look like a cockatoo!!

Some hair is more fragile than others. Mine happens to be very fragile, yours might not be so much.

holothuroidea very interesting, your post opened my eyes on the fact that I may have to do same thing as so far I though my hair is M, well may be I'm wrong, it could be fine (F) and the way how I dry it, comb it and so on is affecting it to grow? hmmm
the hair on top of the middle of my scalp have been fine for over 10 years, right after I took accutane for acne, while accutane stopped the acne (accutane is banned now) my hair became very fragile and very fine on the middle of the top part of my scalp, the part that should grow in the back and give me length :(, anyone got same problem?

[Zesty]

I'm not overly paranoid about it, but I have to make it a habit to avoid damage because the majority of my hairs are fine. I virtually never use or used heat, my hair is virgin, etc., but my hair is still prone to splits. I figured out that the sleep braid I was doing (with a non-metal elastic I thought was safe) was causing a lot of breakage and splits where I tied it off and then rolled on it. Hairs would be bent and rough-feeling in the morning, and there was an area of damage there. I figured out that it was better to put it up over my pillow, whether loose or in a braid. I'm not anxious about it, just vigilant. I envy the people for whom it isn't an issue because their hair is resilient.

[Mesmerise]

To be honest, I didn't even know what split ends were until after I chemically damaged my hair enough to get them when I was in high school. So, I guess for me, damage avoidance is about avoiding chemicals and heat. That's it!

I sort of figure that if I avoid the really BAD things, my hair should generally be okay. However, I guess if I wanted to grow really, really long hair then maybe I'd be more concerned with stuff that could contribute to damage 10+ years down the track. However, I'm never going to go past hip length (most likely) so I figure that normal care should be enough for my hair to stay pretty healthy.

However, I must add that I DO NOT have super tangly hair. If I did, I may have to take more care when combing etc. However, I can just run a comb through my hair after showering and it rarely catches on a bad knot. It does tangle a bit during the day if I wear it in a ponytail or loose, so I have to be maybe a bit more careful when brushing at night so it doesn't break... but I don't think breakage is a big problem for me with otherwise healthy hair.

I guess you just have to pay attention to your OWN hair and work out how much it can take! Some people can bleach/colour/straighten etc. to their heart's content and have lovely hair, while others have to treat their hair extremely gently!