PDA

View Full Version : article on 'silly science' - including cold water rinses



jennyjukes
December 28th, 2011, 09:26 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079136/Simon-Cowell-Pippa-Middleton-rubbished-silly-science.html


Pippa Middleton was abruptly corrected after crediting her glossy hair to rinsing it in cold water.
Miss Middleton, 28, claimed: ‘It closes the pores and gives it a lift and shine... it really works.’
Sense about Science pointed out that hair does not have pores, and its smoothness is unaffected by water, hot or cold.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079136/Simon-Cowell-Pippa-Middleton-rubbished-silly-science.html#ixzz1hqLbvzIJ

more reason not to subject myself to cold water :D

spidermom
December 28th, 2011, 09:41 AM
A lot of times, personal experience clashes with what can be proven through science. For example, I read a study where they attached some kind of sensor to the scalp and measured sebum output to prove/disprove the theory that your scalp produces less sebum if you aren't constantly washing it away. They concluded that the scalp puts out the same amount of sebum per day whether you wash it or not. However, I've seen no shortage of claims around here that the opposite is true. Does this mean that personal experience is rubbish? I don't think so.

girlcat36
December 28th, 2011, 10:08 AM
I have given up cld water rinses since learning that I have a tight cuticle.

delsh
December 28th, 2011, 10:30 AM
Good to hear that! I'll definitely stop chilling myself in the shower as well :laugh: Good, rigorous science is the only way we can control for factors that can influence our own personal experience. Without controls and adequate sample size, how can we tell if something we do really causes a certain affect? I trust science over my own two eyes any day!

HintOfMint
December 28th, 2011, 10:31 AM
A lot of times, personal experience clashes with what can be proven through science. For example, I read a study where they attached some kind of sensor to the scalp and measured sebum output to prove/disprove the theory that your scalp produces less sebum if you aren't constantly washing it away. They concluded that the scalp puts out the same amount of sebum per day whether you wash it or not. However, I've seen no shortage of claims around here that the opposite is true. Does this mean that personal experience is rubbish? I don't think so.

I think the "washing away sebum leading to overproduction" isn't as simple as that. I do think that one's scalp produces the same amount of sebum regardless of how often one washes it, UNLESS the detergent is irritating to one's scalp. I think that if the scalp is irritated, then the scalp produces more sebum in reaction, and perhaps stretching washes or using more gentle detergents mitigates the irritation and sebum production slows.

I think for the vast majority of people without this irritation/allergy/whathaveyou, sebum production is unaffected by wash rates.

As for the Middleton article, I think the guy just jumped down her throat for saying "pores" and not "cuticles."

kaiakai
December 28th, 2011, 10:33 AM
As for the Middleton article, I think the guy just jumped down her throat for saying "pores" and not "cuticles."

Yeah, that.

pepperminttea
December 28th, 2011, 10:52 AM
I don't know why, but for me the cold water rinse at the end does really help. :shrug:

ktani
December 28th, 2011, 10:55 AM
I gues it comes down to a battle between trichologists, lol.

David H. Kingsley Ph.D, http://www.womenshealthmag.com/files/summer-hair-facts/index.html Click an answer, then the answer they give as fact will appear.

Or Philip Kingsley,
http://www.prevention.com/defy-your-age/beauty-tips-shiny-healthy-hair

Amber_Maiden
December 28th, 2011, 10:57 AM
haha! Some of those were really funny!

I personally have no idea about cold water... it works for some people.

spidermom
December 28th, 2011, 11:03 AM
I've tried cold water rinses, and I didn't see any difference in shine or manageability, so I save those for hot summer days when it feels good.

cheetahfast
December 28th, 2011, 11:17 AM
My hair has a lot less frizz when I do a cold water rinse. :shrug:

girlcat36
December 28th, 2011, 11:21 AM
My hair has a lot less frizz when I do a cold water rinse. :shrug:


I don't know why, but for me the cold water rinse at the end does really help. :shrug:


If your cuticle is not tightly closed naturally, I would imagine cold water would improve things.
I always assumed I had a more open cuticle because I had curly hair. I used lots of ACV rinses and ice cold water. It didn't inprove anything, but I never knew why until lately.

jennyjukes
December 28th, 2011, 11:21 AM
I gues it comes down to a battle between trichologists, lol.

David H. Kingsley Ph.D, http://www.womenshealthmag.com/files/summer-hair-facts/index.html Click an answer, then the answer they give as fact will appear.

Or Philip Kingsley,
http://www.prevention.com/defy-your-age/beauty-tips-shiny-healthy-hair
yup i think that's the general consensus with experts everywhere with diet and health etc, they never agree on anything :shrug: so i take everything with a grain of salt

i find that a cold water rinse does help keep my scalp hair less frizzy but when i only use warm water the frizz goes down after a few hours which is fine as i usually wash at night anyway. i just look for any excuse not to subject myself to the coldness :)

Anje
December 28th, 2011, 12:10 PM
One thing I have wondered: Perhaps cold water does make the scales of hair flatten, but wouldn't they go back to a neutral position once the hair has dried and warmed back up to its usual temperature?

I can totally see that it could affect wave pattern, though, since that's influenced by how hair dries.

gogirlanime
December 28th, 2011, 12:21 PM
Hot blow dryers and flat irons and curlers have been proven to damage hair so why would hot water be no different? I do agree somewhat I think that freezing water isn't going to do much of a difference over semi-cold or room temp. I do a little bit colder than room temp and my hair loves it as much as ice cold washes. Just never do warm or hot.

Avital88
December 28th, 2011, 12:24 PM
it works for me too

ktani
December 28th, 2011, 12:31 PM
I cool water rinse after letting my hair cool down a bit after bagging my catnip treatment. I do not use cold water though.

The cooler rinse feels good and I want the stain to stay in better. When my stylist used to rinse my hair before cutting it (I washed my hair at home), and used too warm water, it seemed as if more of the catnip stain was removed too.

And I agree, a cold water rinse may help but it would be a temporary fix and the trichologist who states that it helps, says so in the article.

Springlets
December 28th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Every hairdresser and user of hair dye knows that applying heat to your hair during dye application opens the cuticle, providing more color absorption, right? That's undisputed. So how can it be argued that cold doesn't affect the cuticle?

Diamond.Eyes
December 28th, 2011, 01:00 PM
I tried cold water rinses about two years ago. I did it for a month straight and found absolutely no difference in my hair at all. Warm water works just fine for me. Especially since I don't get brain-freeze that way. :p

LaceyNg
December 28th, 2011, 02:47 PM
Hot blow dryers and flat irons and curlers have been proven to damage hair so why would hot water be no different? I do agree somewhat I think that freezing water isn't going to do much of a difference over semi-cold or room temp. I do a little bit colder than room temp and my hair loves it as much as ice cold washes. Just never do warm or hot.

i tend to agree. its undisputed that heat damages hair, so in theory hot water should too. of course, this doesnt stop me from taking hot showers. :)

Mommyof4
December 29th, 2011, 01:20 AM
Cold water definitely loves my hair. When I wash in hot water, I have to rinse in cold water, or the last 2 inches of my hair will look like hay..

dwell_in_safety
December 29th, 2011, 02:24 AM
Cold rinses definitely help keep my own frizz away. I agree with a couple previous posters that the article jumped on the fact that Pippa Middleton said "pores" rather than "cuticles."

Arashi
December 29th, 2011, 02:30 AM
I find there's a noticeable difference in my hair when I do a cold water rinse vs. when I don't. I'm of the opinion that if it works for me then I'll do it, and if it doesn't or I don't want to then I won't... regardless of what the "experts" say about it. :shrug:

auburntressed
December 29th, 2011, 02:35 AM
I think there is some interpretation on how cold is "cold" and how hot is "hot." Not every person around feels the heat or cold to the same degree, or the same way. Water that is overly hot is supposed to have a tendency to dry out one's skin, so logically the skin on one's scalp would react as well. But how hot is "overly" hot? Personally, I have a low tolerance for heat and cold, which interestingly enough is backed up by some scientific studies (redheads apparently "feel" heat and cold more intensely, and that is definitely true of me). Therefore, my showers are uniformly lukewarm. They are just a tad warmer during the winter months, and a tad cooler during the summer. I've never noticed that it made a difference to my hair, but I presume that the variation in the water temperature is not extreme enough. That is, IF it makes a difference at all.

I wonder if cold water really does seal your cuticle, but it has to be some ungodly cold temperature that a shower isn't even capable of reaching in order for it to work? Or, reversing that, if water has to be hotter than a shower can get in order to really scorch your skin?

maria_asa
December 29th, 2011, 03:06 AM
I find there's a noticeable difference in my hair when I do a cold water rinse vs. when I don't. I'm of the opinion that if it works for me then I'll do it, and if it doesn't or I don't want to then I won't... regardless of what the "experts" say about it. :shrug:

This ten characters

ericthegreat
December 29th, 2011, 03:33 AM
The only cases when cool water touches my scalp is when I go swimming either at the pool in the gym or in the ocean during the summer months. And I KNOW that both chlorinated water and salt water are extremely harsh and drying on my hair, so no that never offers my hair any good benefits!

I always shower my body and my scalp hair with anywhere from warm to comfortably hot but not boiling hot water. I actually think the warm heat makes both my hair and skin much softer. For my skin, the heat makes my blood circulation underneath my skin faster, and for my hair the heat allows for my conditioner to penetrate deeper into my hair.

twopoints
December 29th, 2011, 04:41 AM
I use the coldest water from the tap to wash my hair because I think cold water would be less damaging than warm water. Also, I've read that cold water rinses at the end of a shower can increase blood circulation temporarily so the same effect would happen on the scalp. It would have similar effects to a scalp massage but without creating tangles or mechanical damage.

julliams
December 29th, 2011, 05:33 AM
I started doing cold water rinses for shine but now I do them because we have been finding lately that our one hot water tank doesn't last 4 showers and we are a family of 4. So if I can reduce my use of hot water even for a couple of minutes, it means the last person doesn't have a totally cold shower. It's summer here so it's easy to do.

kaned_ferret
December 29th, 2011, 06:29 AM
Hot blow dryers and flat irons and curlers have been proven to damage hair so why would hot water be no different? I do agree somewhat I think that freezing water isn't going to do much of a difference over semi-cold or room temp. I do a little bit colder than room temp and my hair loves it as much as ice cold washes. Just never do warm or hot.


i tend to agree. its undisputed that heat damages hair, so in theory hot water should too. of course, this doesnt stop me from taking hot showers. :)

To be fair, you wouldn't be washing your hair in 140-200+ degrees celcius though, so I don't think that heat damage from straighteners etc can be compared to shower use. There's also the addition of the mechanical manipulation when using these stylers as well, so imo that makes them way more damaging.

On the cold water front, I've been doing a final rinse in cold for the past year and a half, since I started actively growing, and it definitely works for me, keeps frizz down and gives my scalp a real zing, I actually rather enjoy it, even though I love my showers to practically scorch me :) I just make sure I turban it up and give myself one final body blast back in the hot to make me feel snuggly again lol :cheese:

maria_asa
December 29th, 2011, 07:09 AM
I have given up cld water rinses since learning that I have a tight cuticle.

Just out of curiousity, how did you learn about having a tight cuticle? Is there a way to test your hair to find out?

Kat
December 29th, 2011, 07:12 AM
To be fair, you wouldn't be washing your hair in 140-200+ degrees celcius though, so I don't think that heat damage from straighteners etc can be compared to shower use. There's also the addition of the mechanical manipulation when using these stylers as well, so imo that makes them way more damaging.


That's what I was going to say. My showers, even at their hottest, don't get nearly as hot as a blow-dryer or curling iron. I know this because I'll happily stand in the shower, but I would NOT apply a blow-dryer or curling iron to my skin.

Hot water may dry my skin a bit, but not enough to make it worth standing there for 15+ minutes shivering with goosebumps for a shower.

MonaMayfair
December 29th, 2011, 07:49 AM
Well, I wouldn't believe ANYthing I read in the Daily Mail!

Though I've never noticed cold water rinses making my hair shinier. I wash and rinse in tepid water.

ktani
December 29th, 2011, 07:58 AM
i tend to agree. its undisputed that heat damages hair, so in theory hot water should too. of course, this doesnt stop me from taking hot showers. :)

Heat can help open hair cuticles. There is a huge difference when I bag a catnip treatment and body heat helps the catnip penetrate my hair as much as it can, as opposed to when I did not bag it.

Hot water can be drying to the skin. I can see hot water being drying to the hair. I have washed my hair with hot water unintentionally when the water temperature in the shower was unstable but I quickly made it cooler. No harm was done as the heat did not continue.

MissAlida
December 29th, 2011, 08:29 AM
A cold water and white vinegar rinse, followed by a really cold water final rinse makes my hair have crazy shine...I think it really does work, at least for me. I would never ever give up my vinegar rinse, no matter my routine(which is changing because I am still trying to find the best one).

girlcat36
December 29th, 2011, 08:43 AM
Just out of curiousity, how did you learn about having a tight cuticle? Is there a way to test your hair to find out?

http://www.ehow.com/how_5782171_test-hair-porosity.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_8710125_carry-out-porosity-test.html

http://www.ehow.com/info_12003219_high-porosity-vs-low-porosity-hair.html

I think knowing one's hair porosity is more of an issue for us curlies, since we use so many different products to encourage our curls. I thought that I had high porosity by default just because I was a curly, and my previous hair routine was geared towards that, so learning that I actually had low porosity changed up everything.

ktani
December 29th, 2011, 08:50 AM
In the article used as a reference for one of those links, it states that heat can help hair with low porosity absorb treatments, http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair.

Therefore, cooler water would also have some, if temporary effect in keeping them ETA: cuticles - closed or helping to close them after heat is used.

ktani
December 29th, 2011, 09:10 AM
There are porosity fillers for porours hair - protein based - that can help, http://www.redken.com/products/haircare/time-reset/time-reset-at-home-porosity-filler.

ETA: More on the one above, http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/high-porosity/124115-time-reset-home-porosity-filler.html

There are several kinds by different brands.

Milui Elenath
December 29th, 2011, 09:26 AM
I think personal experience and experimentation is far more valuable than anything a quoted scientist might say in a journalistic piece!

Who knows where that particular scientists allegiances lie? Or where they're funding comes from? Or even what field they have trained in? (That's not to say they are wrong, unethical, unqualified or bias just that I don't know if they are :)) and I won't even mention the bias of the media. . .

For myself I notice my hair dries slowly when it's rinsed in cold water and I've noticed no extra shine for my trouble.

However, since I wash with water only I have begun to believe that warm water allows the sebum to spread more easily down the shaft while cold seems to rinse the sebum off. (As it becomes more waxy perhaps?) I think that could also contribute to shine on a persons hair one way or another depending on whether their hair needs more oil or whether the oil is infact dulling their hair.

I certainly don't disagree that cold closes the cuticles since heat apparently opens them. For myself I suspect it makes no difference because of porosity.

holothuroidea
December 29th, 2011, 10:31 AM
As a scientist, I am going to dismiss this article as rubbish.

It is way over-simplified. It also implies that science knows all and has all the answers and that is simply not true.

Cold water does tighten the cuticle. This has an effect on some people and not on others, like GirlCat said. And no, hair doesn't have pores, but I'm not going to fault someone who is not a hair-nerd for getting the nomenclature wrong. I know what she meant.

As far as acupuncture and cupping goes, absence of proof is not proof of absence.

They are also completely dismissing the effect that the mind has on the body, which is a mistake doctors often make because there is no way to measure, document or control the effect. But that is a mistake, and many many people can attest that their mental health directly effects their physical health.

It always bugs me when people cite "science" as the supreme authority on everything.

The whale sperm comment was just awesome, though. I think it was probably meant as a joke anyway.

wicked kisses
December 29th, 2011, 12:15 PM
I've tried it both ways and can't see a difference. At all.
So, back to my nice warm shower.

Gingerbear
December 29th, 2011, 12:34 PM
Isn't this also the reason why people who blow dry their hair recommend using a shot of cold air at the end to finish the hair? It is supposed to smooth down the cuticle and increase shine.

I also thought the whale sperm comment was funny (although a little disgusting) -- can you imagine?!? I would never swim in the ocean again.... :)!

wicked kisses
December 29th, 2011, 12:42 PM
I've tried it both ways and can't see a difference. At all.
So, back to my nice warm shower.

ktani
December 29th, 2011, 02:13 PM
I've tried it both ways and can't see a difference. At all.
So, back to my nice warm shower.

I really think it is about the more extreme temperatures or in the case of bagging a treatment, body heat.

If a cold water rinse is temporary for some people, a more acidic conditioner or an acidic rinse makes more sense to me for longer lasting results for smoothness and shine.

Conditioners for colour-treated hair are usually more acidic to compensate for generally roughed up cuticles from colouring.

Katze
December 29th, 2011, 02:34 PM
cold water never did anything for me except make me uncomfortable, though ending your shower with cold water on your BODY is supposed to be good for your circulation (a la Dr Kneipp...).

Here, when you go to the sauna, it is expected that you shower COLD afterwards. People will actually tell you to remember to do so if you don't. Although I still don't actually LIKE it, it does seem to have nice effects on my overall relaxation, circulation, etc.

Hair...eh...no. Too hot is definitely bad, though.

maria_asa
December 30th, 2011, 03:30 AM
http://www.ehow.com/how_5782171_test-hair-porosity.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_8710125_carry-out-porosity-test.html

http://www.ehow.com/info_12003219_high-porosity-vs-low-porosity-hair.html

I think knowing one's hair porosity is more of an issue for us curlies, since we use so many different products to encourage our curls. I thought that I had high porosity by default just because I was a curly, and my previous hair routine was geared towards that, so learning that I actually had low porosity changed up everything.

Thank you! As I suspected my hair also has low porosity but it's nice to be able to test it and not just think it.

girlcat36
December 30th, 2011, 08:36 AM
You're welcome!

Renate
December 30th, 2011, 10:13 AM
I've always took very hot showers, even on summer. It's been a year since a hairstylist told me I should stop it because I was "cooking" my hair. I've been taking warm showers ever since and the improvement on my hair seen in the very first days was unbelievable. So I'm not sure about the cold water rinses, but warm water instead of hot, for me, definetely works.

sarelis
January 1st, 2012, 11:26 AM
I have recently started doing a cold rinse at the end of washing my hair, I usually have my bath water scalding hot (I just don't feel properly clean otherwise :confused:) & had begun to worry about heaping heat damage on my hair from washing it too hot. I havn't really noticed a difference in my hair, but I love the feeling on my scalp! It sort of 'burns' afterwards, which I assume is something to do with increased circulation, which has to be good! :)

Rybe
January 1st, 2012, 01:21 PM
I couldn't take this article seriously after I read "I don't like the beach. The water's all whale sperm. That's why [it is] salty" hahahaha, seriously? They gave that quote time enough to be discussed :rolleyes: I'm sure even in Snooki's massive wisdom even she wasn't being serious. I hope...Or at least that the article would give us credit that WE knew that! Of course hair doesn't have "pores" she obviously misspoke, or mis-remembered

And not to derail, but I am curious about the mechanics of this whole cold water increasing circulation thing. The body's natural reaction to cold is to take blood AWAY from your extremities and primary sources of heat loss, since your organs are more important...or does that only kick in after you've been cold for a few minutes :confused: