My daughter's hair... Please help us!

[SunShinesOnWint]

I really need to get a pic of this on here and I will do so by tonight..But for now let me try to explain whats happening to her hair..


I guess you could call it 'frizz' I tried to teach her how to care for her hair, but she didn't listen to well..I looks like a ton of broken frizz, not just on the top, but when I lifted the layers it was all over and under..


So, I cut a lot of her hair, to start over, but help it become healthy as it grows out..

It has been almost a year and I swear the frizz is amazingly worse!! Even her dad notices it, and he does not pay attention to a lot...

Her hair when she was 5 and under was smooth, and so pretty..Now it is rough, wire and frizzy....Any suggestions??

If I had know cutting it all off would now have helped I never would have done that...

[HintOfMint]

That "frizz" sounds like curls that have been brushed. Kid's hair goes through so many changes, I wouldn't be surprised that her hairtype has changed and you didn't notice until the curly hair fully replaced the straight hair. I'd look into hair care for curly hair, and for the love of god, don't instill in her the idea that only straight smooth hair is pretty.

[MsBubbles]

:( How old is she? I hate that you both went through that haircut trauma.

Stick around here, learn how to figure out and handle her hair type. If it's naturally curly or wavy, you will learn how to bring that out and make the best of it. If it's straight, same thing. But please please please don't say anything bad to her about her hair. Nothing. Only positives.

[Inching Along]

If it is curly or wavy, it is likely needing moisture. There is some good information here about caring for curly hair. Also, look at the Live Curly Live Free (http://livecurlylivefree.com) site, and check out The Curly Girl Handbook by Lorraine Massey (I checked it out of the library). My girls (both 16) tend to rip their brushes through their hair, probably because they don't want to spend the time being gentle. They also use a curling iron and a straightener! You may need to help your daughter a little more, even though she's getting older. Just don't brush when hair is wet and at its most fragile.

[Phalaenopsis]

Let it be!

Look at my hair in my sig, straight and sleek right?
You have no idea how bad my hair was when I was younger! It's was normal and then suddenly I got the dry, frizzy thing too (no curls or waves), my hair was like straw, my mother didn't know how to deal with it, it was so bad. I think it's some growing stage or something. I litterally grew out of it.

[ouseljay]

Is your daughter nearing puberty? Many children's hair changes texture then. Mine, for instance, went from fine, smooth, and with just a hint of wave, gradually to what it is now, which involves a lot of frizz, especially at the crown. For my hair, the frizz is a result (mostly) of the waves not wanting to play nice until the hairs get long enough to integrate with the rest of the hair.

You can tell if the frizz is from breaks or just growing out hairs by looking at the tips. If the tips of the frizzy bits are blunt or split, she has breakage. But if the tips are smoothly tapered, then they're just baby hairs growing.

For frizz, a lot of people here seem to like Kimberlily's defrizz spray, you can find the recipe by searching the name. If her hair is dry, you could get her to try an SMT (Snowymoon's moisture treatment). If the length of her hair has any wave to it, I would suggest having her use a wooden wide tooth comb for a while instead of a brush if that's what she uses now. My hair, even with its fairly mild waves, gives an impressive poof when I brush it, which makes it look more frizzy.

[darklyndsea]

My hair's been like that since middle school at least...nothing I've found helps it much.

[SunShinesOnWint]

My daughter did start puberty a few months ago, but this started maybe 2 years ago?

I never considered it to be a possible curly hair being brushed out, I will try some things to see if it will curl..She then as a baby then her hair went from that to a slight wave...

I will also check to see if the ends are smooth are not..

And no, I would never tell anybody that straight hair is beautiful ahead of any other type...

[Kristin]

Do you mean that she recently started getting her period? Because puberty (and all the loveliness that it implies) starts a couple of years before that.

My hair also changed and the strands became much finer after puberty, but nothing drastic like it sounds you are experiencing.

Definitely check into curly/wavy routines. I would skip shampoo and try COing for awhile.

[Melisande]

Give her nice hair related presents - Kimberlily's mixture with a lovely scent in a pretty mister bottle, a good conditioner, hair toys, a nice oil mixture or Monoi Tiare - everything to make her feel good. Hair changes as we grow. It's difficult enough to be in puberty and see the changes of body and feel the emotional rollercoast - don't make her fret about her hair.

If you feed her well, offer her some nice scalp massages from time to time, give her good products for hair care and encourage her to let her hair find its natural shape and texture without heat styling etc, then you have done enough.

She must feel good about her hair. You don't have to like the way she looks. But she, in her evolving identity of young woman, has to feel that she looks her best. Do what you can to help her in that. Self confidence is more important than split free hair in my book.

[piffyanne]

I'm going to throw in another vote for "only positive comments."

When I was 11 or 12, my nose started taking on the shape of the Italian side of my family. My mom felt so guilty for passing on that gene (she's hated her nose her whole life) that she offered to pay for plastic surgery before I'd even started to conceive a dislike for my nose, or even mentioned it.

I've hated my nose ever since, and my dbf, who doesn't want me to change it, really has his work cut out for him--he's been telling me constantly ever since we met that he loves my nose, and that it was the first thing he noticed about me (apparently in a positive way.) I'm only NOW, after all this intensive dbf-delivered therapy, starting to come around to liking myself. I can't emphasize enough the huge toll her offer took on my self-image: my nose in my current 21-year-old self-image looks like it did before it started changing in 6th grade, and I still get a surprise whenever I look in a mirror.

The moral to this whole story is emphatic: show her you LOVE your daughter's hair, whether you like what it's doing right now or not, and it will give her the confidence and love for it to deal with any of the problems she's experiencing and comments she's about to experience (well I remember puberty).

[xoxophelia]

My guess is this may very well just be her hair. It looks like I have frizz underneath as well or broken hairs but my hair is actually just wavy and M/C. That is just how it is.

It gets better and more tame with good treatment but it always has somewhat of that quality.

My advice: try to get her to dry her hair without touching it at all and see what it does like a hairtyping photo. If it is wavy like 2a/2b, get some aloe vera gel (the nonmedicated clear type), and gently scrunch that through her damp hair (try to let the hair stay in clumps don't work your fingers through it too much). That also works well if you blend in a few drops of oil. Then, don't comb it.

You definitely want to get her to figure out her hair type now before she decides to start heat styling it all the time. Just treat it like girl-spa time :)

[Lostsoule77]

I can tell you that my hair went from about 1c as a child to 2b/c once I hit puberty. It got really frizzy and all that. I agree with others that you should try getting her to treat it like wavy/curly hair and see what happens. And definitely don't say any negatives about it to her. Women get enough body image issues from TV & all, you need to be behind her making her stay positive.

[SunShinesOnWint]

As much as I want to defend myself you guys have a good point..and I will be careful to make sure my daughter does not feel bad about her hair, I have slipped and commented on it like I have to you guys...But I went and told her I think her hair is beautiful, and I really do think that!!


Ok here is a picture..and this is not the worst it has looked..It is always short on top though her hair is growing just fine...

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m526/witeronfire/DSC07933.jpg

[SunShinesOnWint]

This is what it looks like when the frizz is smoothed into her hair...

[mneh]

@SunShinesOnWint since my teenage years, I have those same frizzy halo hairs as your daughter does, I only found out in 2010 (age 37) that I have wavy/curly hair, rather than the frizzy straight hair I thought I had. Since then, treating my hair in the best way for that type of hair has made my hair much less frizzy and easier to manage. Good luck with helping your daughter discover the fun of her new hair texture :)

[novemberfoxtrot]

What a pretty girl!

I don't have any helpful advice because at 32 I'm still trying to figure out my own hair. But had to say she's as cute as a button!

[spidermom]

It might have been new hairs of a different type sticking out all over rather than broken hairs. I agree that it sounds like she might be a wavy or curly now and need more moisture. Good luck!

[spidermom]

Yup, just saw the pictures - looks like she has some curlies! Maybe coconut oil and moisturizing conditioners will help.

She might have crazy mixed up hair like me. I have curly hairs growing along-side straight hairs, and it makes for quite a strange-looking texture sometimes. I do my best to smooth the short surface hairs down and encourage the rest to do their thing. First day of washing I have wavies/curlies, after that it starts going straight.

One more thought: if she's been experimenting with flat irons or curling irons, that could be damage. If she wants to heat style, she will need deep conditioning treatments and a heat-protectant spray. The sprays don't prevent heat damage, but they do help.

[piffyanne]

Now that I can see the picture, I must say that looks a good deal like what MY hair does. For me, it's baby hair, and it's been a constant presence since I was little. My hair comes with the impression of growing faster than average (I haven't compiled a hair growth chart to figure it out once and for all whether it REALLY does grow faster yet) and I've grown to like the effect. Most of my (wavy) hair is a confusing mixture of bronze/mouse brown/copper (but ONLY in sunlight)/hints of gold, but my baby hairs come in looking really pale, and give an appearance of a halo. I've come to regard it as an adorable idiosyncracy, and you might be able to instill a similar sentiment in her. :cheese:

Have you tried frizz control shampoos? They might help, etc. I've never yet found anything that's particularly outstanding, but I'll be following this thread with even more interest to see what everyone comes up with! (It'd be fun to find a miracle cure for it that I can whip out to surprise the world on special occasions!;))

[Teresa9000]

My hair does that to some extent. ETA: You can actually see mine in the 7th pic in my Length Measurements album (the up close, henna shot), if you want. /end ETA I think it's because of my hair type. My hair will wave if I don't touch it at all after washing it, but is straight with slight body wave if I comb it, even just a once-over, while it's still wet (or after it's dry, for that matter). I have a hair-typing pic in my album, if it helps (but most of my other "down" pics have braid waves, so they don't really show my type after combing). The curly new growth mess on top is 98% gone now that it's almost winter, but when it's humid out, those little suckers are sticking up and curling all over the place. ETA: I should say when it's both hot and humid out, since the humidity level here is actually 85% right now. /end ETA As for advice, I still haven't found a way to tame it! Sorry. :flower:

[BeckyAH]

My hair did that from about 10 to 15 years old. I sincerely think it was just my hair growing in curlier after puberty started, and 'straight' (prepubescent) hair shedding out. My hair is now firmly curly, and once I figured that out it got okay. But man those five years were horrible.

[NymphSpirit]

Well, duh, that's her hair texture, of course cutting it wouldn't change it...!! You should get off her back and let her be happy!! See? That's why we teenagers are so damn insecure!! Stop making her miserable (because even if you don't know it, you are) and try new products, anti-frizz things, but don't make such a big deal of frizzy hair! She's too young to be worrying about that!!! She should be worrying about ponies or whatever.....

I just... That was rude. But I don't regret saying it.

[SunShinesOnWint]

NymphSpirit how about you get off my back...I even admitted earlier that others who were saying I should edit what I say to her about this have a point..And I certainly do not need parenting tips from someone who is rude themselves AND does not know my daughter or myself:cool:



Thank you from everybody else, this helps me know what to do...Her hair was not always this way so it is good to know the whys behind the change..I will look for some stuff to help, I remember seeing Avon has frizz help type shampoos and conditioners! But I will also start to view her hair as awesome and make sure she knows that as well :)

[Loviatar]

SunShinesonWinter, you could also check whether she's pulling or playing with her hair a lot. My sister did and she had a lot of broken ends 'on top' at her crown. She also went from stick straight to very curly/wavy. By pulling with her hair I don't mean full-on trichotillomania, but just messing with it or twirling it about her fingers or whatever. My sister ended up with almost a 2 inch wide parting by breaking her crown hair off like that.

Best of luck helping your daughter (who is super cute!) enjoy her lovely hair. I think the extra moisture is a good idea.

[tinywife]

There are a lot of products on the market labelled "anti-frizz spray" or "shine spray;" these are all good ways to tame flyaways.
Also, a lemon juice rinse helped me tame my flyaways - about a tablespoon of lemon juice in a quart of warm water.

[Presto]

I am really curly. I don't believe your daughter's hair is quite as curly as mine, but I think I know what is going on.

When my hair sheds, and the new hair comes in afterward, it is extra curly for two or three inches.

So I usually wind up trimming new hairs once they are long enough to reach.

To check the amount of curl she has going on, don't blow dry her hair after her shower/bath, blot it so it's not dripping too bad, but just let it air dry. Don't brush it as it dries, comb it out once for no tangles, but then leave it alone. It won't look really nice, this is just a good method to let her natural texture show.

My hair, the more I encourage the curl, the more curly it gets. So if you've always blown it out and brushed the frizz away, you are encouraging it to stay in its slightly wavy state that seemed normal up until this frizz started showing up.

I hope you guys find a good routine that brings out her best!

My mother didn't "believe" in conditioner, I went my whole childhood with the most ridiculous looking frizz on my head. :rolleyes:

[|Xei]

My hair started doing something funky like that a year or so after I reached puberty, except it was super frizzy all over, with almost no definite pattern to it. There was a random wurl in the hair coming out of my hair whorl from the shoulders down, but that's it. Everything else was just a big lump of random frizziness. This phase lasted around 5 years, and I'm sure it was due to my changing hormones.

So anyway, my point is, while what the other members are suggesting might be correct, it's also possible that she might develop the same hair I did, and the frizz never really develops into anything but poofiness.

If it does, keeping her hair long will make it easier to deal with because it weighs the frizz down and keeps it more controlled. Cutting it short will make it spring up like crazy (and that's not fun to deal with). It will be a good idea to keep it braided, in an updo, or something to cut down on tangles. Also, give it a lot of LHC-style care to make it as manageable as possible, and encourage your daughter to be patient with it.

I do hope that your daughter really is developing wurls/curls, though. Dealing with that crazy hair wasn't cool, and I seriously disliked my hair at that point.

[dwell_in_safety]

Her frizz looks just like mine did from about age 9-10 till just a couple months ago, when I switched to CO to go with my actual wavy texture (that becomes ringlets at the ends when it hits BSLish) and started oiling my hair. The texture of the hair on my head also varies from baby fine straight hair to extremely coarse, thick, crunchy hair that tightly kinks and curls.

[MsBubbles]

As much as I want to defend myself you guys have a good point..and I will be careful to make sure my daughter does not feel bad about her hair, I have slipped and commented on it like I have to you guys...But I went and told her I think her hair is beautiful, and I really do think that!!


:toast: Well done! Thank you on two counts: one for resisting to go the defensive route (shows a huge amount of maturity!), and two for being positive about your daughter's hair! She is adorable by the way, frizz or not. :flower:

[bettylibertine]

NymphSpirit, that comment was unnecessary.

OP: I have no advice, but I wish you luck!

[Lianna]

don't make such a big deal of frizzy hair!

I agree with this part, some hair textures are naturally "frizzy" unless it's weight down with product/gels and not everybody wants to do that.

OP: I think if you were on LHC before the cut, you should have asked us for advice before cutting such big amount of hair...specially when keeping it long could have been easier to take care/style.

I recommend drying it in a ponytail or twin braids or similar updo to press down the frizzies, this is what I do with mine. Some light oiling while damp can be good.

[SunShinesOnWint]

MsBubbles I do not know how to 'quote yet' but thank you..I am afraid my maturity took a vacation when that one poster came at me...Hope I didn't change your mind about me...


Again guys your help has been wonderful :D

[piffyanne]

She might have crazy mixed up hair like me. I have curly hairs growing along-side straight hairs, and it makes for quite a strange-looking texture sometimes. I do my best to smooth the short surface hairs down and encourage the rest to do their thing. First day of washing I have wavies/curlies, after that it starts going straight.

Mine goes haywire-nuts on wash day, too. Do you notice a difference in her hair texture depending on where on the sliding scale of cleanliness she is at any given time, sunshinesonwinter?

[julliams]

Your daughter's hair sounds exactly like mine. I was totally straight, sleek and smooth and then all these wirey hairs started growing in. I thought I had frizzy hair too and so began years of straightening and forcing my hair to behave. Take a look in my album at my texture pictures and you can see what this kind of hair can look like with the right care.

The best thing you can do for her is to let her embrace her waves and love her hair. Thinking that maybe there is something "wrong" with your hair is not good for her self confidence. Try scrunching her hair with a leave-in or gel when wet and watch those waves appear and take their form. And don't forget to tell her how great she looks when it is wavy and in it's natural form. I get so many compliments when my hair is straightened and nearly none when it's wavy. Sometimes that bothers me because the wavy me is totally natural and the most healthy.

[SunShinesOnWint]

piffyanne it seems to do it no matter when...But my daughter is really bad with the conditioner, she is trying to do what i told her, but she still either has a lot left in her hair after the bath/shower to the point you can see it, or she ends up washing it all out...


I just cannot do it for her because she is 13 now and has to learn to get it right, and I know she will..In the meantime I try to help, I comb it out, though I think she should, but she is too rough and pulls the hair verses picking it gentle like I do...

I try to use shine stuff that makes hair softer, it helps a little, but not much..I should also mention, we use many cheaper stuff, my husband has not worked because of his heart condition so we had to go cheap :(

But I started to sell Avon to help us, and I get good discounts so I am going to get this frizz control stuff they have in shampoo and conditioner and see if that helps!

[SunShinesOnWint]

I hear you julliams, will do :p

[Kyla]

It's wonderful that you're trying to care for her hair. Although she may have experienced some negative experience with the cut, I doubt it's anything serious. I would look into the many ways to control frizz and bring out curls, as well as moisture. Products such as aloe vera gel, oil, and shea butter help IMMENSELY! :)
I just find it very nice you are trying to help her.

[julliams]

Oh, I just wanted to add that if you see her pulling the "frizzy hairs" out, tell her not to. I used to do this all the time. They just need length and then they lay alot flatter. When you pull them out, they just have to start the growing process all over again and they grow back exactly the same anyway.

You can see the fuzzy hair's I have now - they are all over the place. It's totally normal for this type of hair. http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6185/6108323174_9d3991d446.jpg

[julliams]

And I'm going to add again (sorry) that I think it's wonderful that you are taking this step to find the best way to care for her hair. I wish my mother had done that for me. It would have saved me 15 years of thinking I had hair that wouldn't "behave"!!

[Lianna]

Since you have to go cheap, I'd really recommend to start with a few drops of olive oil as leave in, maybe you already have it! You can use more as a deep treatment before wash aswell.

[xoxophelia]

You may not be able to style her hair for her, but definitely get her some aloe vera gel (it is cheap and at walmart.. that is where I got mine ^^) and show her how to gently scrunch it into to her hair. Wavies should also only ever use wide tooth combs when wearing it wurly so that will solve the problem of the frizz and her rough brushing.

It takes a really long time for a lot of people to figure out how to style their natural hair when it isn't stick straight so I am sure she will thank you later :)

The styling method I described and I think Julliams did also is what I did in my sig pic. The key is leaving it alone as it dries.

[Melisande]

All I have to add is that you have a lovely daughter with a very pretty smile. Your effort to find out how to treat her hair will save her years of frustration. Great!

[hototogisu]

Wow, I'd... leave her alone. Her hair is *hers* and she needs to make decisions about it. Does she want it short? Long? It's not surprising that she's not spending much time taking care of her hair because she's a kid and her hair probably isn't her priority.

I might be a little sensitive about this, because I developed awful acne when I was a kid and my self esteem was very damaged by adult family members constantly reminding me that my skin looked bad with their attempts to 'fix' me.

Is she bothered by her hair? What does she want her hair to look like? Does your daughter want long hair? Short hair? Because her appearance is her business.

[mneh]

piffyanne it seems to do it no matter when...But my daughter is really bad with the conditioner, she is trying to do what i told her, but she still either has a lot left in her hair after the bath/shower to the point you can see it, or she ends up washing it all out...


I just cannot do it for her because she is 13 now and has to learn to get it right, and I know she will..In the meantime I try to help, I comb it out, though I think she should, but she is too rough and pulls the hair verses picking it gentle like I do...

I try to use shine stuff that makes hair softer, it helps a little, but not much..I should also mention, we use many cheaper stuff, my husband has not worked because of his heart condition so we had to go cheap :(

But I started to sell Avon to help us, and I get good discounts so I am going to get this frizz control stuff they have in shampoo and conditioner and see if that helps!

Hi, if I remember correctly, Avon has a Be Curly range of products and sells a detangling, wide tooth comb. Both of those would possibly help your daughter in caring for her hair. I think if you continue to detangle her wet hair for her it would be beneficial as she might still be a little bit young to manage the level of patience/dexterity required AND seeing how gentle you are with her hair will teach her (as she grows a little older) the best way to treat her hair. I was also thinking that braiding or high-ponytailing her hair overnight might help her have an easier time in the mornings, I know it does for me :)

[Auryn]

I have to admit, that if my mom had done what you did when I was that age, I'd have hated her for it. My mom was always pushing me to 'do something' with my hair. For years it was stick straight, and baby fine. When I was a teenager, I started to get some wave, and most of the time, I just wore my hair in a low ponytail to keep it out of my face. When it started to get frizzy, I started using a leave in conditioner (Pantene made an awesome one then) on top of the conditioner that I was using in the shower. It helped some, but it took years for the frizzies to go away, and I still have some around my crown from where new hair grows in.

I'll say this, I'm not a parent, but I clearly remember being insecure and all the things that my mom said that I should do to be 'perfect', and they still affect me. I'm almost 32 years old and I still struggle with it.

[noelgirl]

Your daughter's hair looks very similar to mine at that age; it hadn't been totally straight prior to that, but the wurls really took on a life of their own around middle school. And the feedback I got back then was that it was "problem" hair; even my mom didn't quite know what to do with it, and her hair is naturally just like mine! Her approach with hers was to keep it short and heat-style daily, but since I wanted mine long, that did not work.

What I've found helps with canopy frizz is spreading out washes. I usually wash every third day, with a sulfate-free shampoo, and I really only see any frizz immediately after washing, which usually can be smoothed down with some AVG or leave-in. Sometimes putting it in a loose half-up as it dries helps too, since it lets the wave patterns underneath come out.

By the way, your daughter is gorgeous!

[Evie]

Hi OP, I can't believe some of the hostility you are getting for this thread! I mean, you are just asking for help and how best to care for your daughter's hair, and some folks have gone way over the top in critising you IMO. Anyhow, I get what you are saying about the cost of some of these treatments. However, there are some things that cost very little you can try - how about CO washing sometimes? That may dry her hair out less, and she might find it fun to try these different things. Air drying, not blow drying, or drying in plaits etc, might help. And you can (or I can, I hope you can) buy coconut oil pretty cheaply in a large amount in or around the cooking oil/ world food sections in supermarkets? A little of that might work wonders for her, she is adorable!

[pepperminttea]

Is she bothered by her hair?

This. If she's happy with her hair, including the halo, let her be. For her to be happy in herself at thirteen - as she is - is a precious thing indeed (and I wish it was something I had). If she's specifically asked for help or seems unhappy with her hair, then perhaps send her here (when this thread has died down, I'd also not tell her your username and remove the face photo if you go that route). She's old enough to start experimenting with her hair and find out what it likes on her own. Be kind; she's making her identity, don't let negativity be a part of that.

[Lostsoule77]

This. If she's happy with her hair, including the halo, let her be. For her to be happy in herself at thirteen - as she is - is a precious thing indeed (and I wish it was something I had). If she's specifically asked for help or seems unhappy with her hair, then perhaps send her here (when this thread has died down, I'd also not tell her your username and remove the face photo if you go that route). She's old enough to start experimenting with her hair and find out what it likes on her own. Be kind; she's making her identity, don't let negativity be a part of that.

This whole thing is perfect advice!

Your daughter is adorable and her halo doesn't change that. In fact my DH loves mine even though I hate it. I just wet it down and clip it back when it's getting to me. Good luck and try to let her be herself. :)

[GeoJ]

Your daughter's frizzies look just like mine! My hair changed during puberty, too. I spent my teen years hating my hair and thinking it was just an uncontrollable mess (despite my mom always saying my hair was pretty). My hair resisted styling (and no amount of hairspray would keep it the way I wanted for more than about an hour and a half). Eventually I grew my hair long and wore braids almost every day- which was a big appearance improvement. I also stopped using my brush and just detangled with a wide-toothed comb (actually one of those simple plastic hair picks- just file down sharp or rough seams).

A few years into my adult life my MIL told me to use coconut oil in my hair, and that helped me a lot- even when I was still using regular, cheap shampoo & conditioner. You can try different oils to see which works well for your daughter. If you want to try coconut oil, you should be able to get it cheap at one of the Indian grocery stores in San Antonio.

My hair also always looks much tamer the day after I wash (no matter what kind of wash I do). So I would typically wash it in the evening, so that it looks smoother by the morning.

It's great that you are coming here to help your daughter with her new hairtype. :)

[SunShinesOnWint]

I want to be clear..This is a hair forum, not a parenting forum...Though I welcome kind advice, i do not welcome pushy, rude commands/comments..That is my child, and I will do as I please with her hair, that is my right and nobody's business but her's..It is not up for debate and I want the rude comments to stop...

Now having said that...I think title is setting people off maybe? I do not tell her that i think her hair is ugly, that is just something I wouldn't do to her..And I have since made sure to make good comments about us taking care of her hair..Just to make double sure I do not accidentally hurt her view of herself..And that advice was from so many of you, and I thank you for it!!

Please guys remember, you do not know me, you cannot see my face, or hear what tone I would use if I were saying this verses typing. So nobody has the right to assume i am a bad parent. Ya know, I have done this is in the past, assuming, and I learned it was wrong..so i cannot hold a grudge..it happens, so now that you have read this part i expect the comments about anything but hair treatment to stop!!

If anybody ever has concerns, be kind about it and send me a 'private' message, your welcome to do that.

Ok people, have a terrific day!!!! :D

[Lianna]

I think your question shows that you care, or you would just give her a flat iron to "deal with it". :rolleyes:

[lapushka]

This reminds me of my hair when I was about 13 / 14 years old. It went from smooth to thick and frizzy (like that exactly but all over) in about a year. It's like my smooth hair was replaced with... something else entirely. I struggled with this for many years, still thinking my hair was straight and smooth, hating it, not knowing or even noticing I just had wavy hair instead.

I agree with the comments that said: moisture, and plenty of it. This means lots of conditioning, or even leaving a small bit of conditioner in her hair / not rinsing it out as much. On top of that some leave-in and a serum or oil (for both: a little goes a long way).

[lapushka]

This reminds me of my hair when I was about 13 / 14 years old. It went from smooth to thick and frizzy (like that exactly but all over) in about a year. It's like my smooth hair was replaced with... something else entirely. I struggled with this for many years, still thinking my hair was straight and smooth, hating it, not knowing or even noticing I just had wavy hair instead.

I agree with the comments that said: moisture, and plenty of it. This means lots of conditioning, or even leaving a small bit of conditioner in her hair / not rinsing it out as much. On top of that some leave-in and a serum or oil (for both: a little goes a long way).

[ouseljay]

I want to be clear..This is a hair forum, not a parenting forum...Though I welcome kind advice, i do not welcome pushy, rude commands/comments..That is my child, and I will do as I please with her hair, that is my right and nobody's business but her's..It is not up for debate and I want the rude comments to stop...

Now having said that...I think title is setting people off maybe? I do not tell her that i think her hair is ugly, that is just something I wouldn't do to her..And I have since made sure to make good comments about us taking care of her hair..Just to make double sure I do not accidentally hurt her view of herself..And that advice was from so many of you, and I thank you for it!!

Please guys remember, you do not know me, you cannot see my face, or hear what tone I would use if I were saying this verses typing. So nobody has the right to assume i am a bad parent. Ya know, I have done this is in the past, assuming, and I learned it was wrong..so i cannot hold a grudge..it happens, so now that you have read this part i expect the comments about anything but hair treatment to stop!!

If anybody ever has concerns, be kind about it and send me a 'private' message, your welcome to do that.

Ok people, have a terrific day!!!! :D

I think you're right, it's the title, and maybe the story about cutting her hair that's causing the criticism. I suggest putting an edit at the top of your first post, something along the lines of your second paragraph. People often don't read through the whole thread before commenting, so you're bound to get more comments based solely on whatever you have in the first post. (Don't delete anything, that's not allowed, but edits with updates and such are generally fine.)

Also, I just wanted to add, if she pulls her hair back into tight ponytails it can often cause breakage. I used to do that, as tight as it would go sticking out the back of my head, and I'd pull the ends of the ponytail to tighten it. Breakage galore!

[SunShinesOnWint]

I see your point, I think I will go and edit....

We are not pony tail people because i knew it could cause breakage..and she is so sensitive like me with her scalp it is horrible trying to get one in her hair, all the pulling and such, it is horrible!!!

[spidermom]

One more thought: if she is concerned about the frizzies, one thing that will absolutely lay it down is styling wax, pomade, or putty. I especially liked Natures Gate styling putty because it isn't as gluey as similar products I tried. You can comb through it easily.

I would style my hair (bun or braid it), then rub one finger across the top of the styling putty, then stroke over any sticky-ups. Repeat until hair is as smooth as I want it. A little goes a long-long way with these products.

[chelles2kids]

Maybe coconut oil and moisturizing conditioners will help.

This was my first thought too. Just use a teeny bit of some type of oil to smooth down over the top.
Wow she looks like she's gonna have some massive thickness!

She's cute as a button.:flower:

[spidermom]

This was my first thought too. Just use a teeny bit of some type of oil to smooth down over the top.
Wow she looks like she's gonna have some massive thickness!

She's cute as a button.:flower:

Haha; all oil does for me is make my sticky-ups oily.

[jacqueline101]

I think its puberty hormones causing the changes. As its been stated it can change 2 years before puberty. Her curl and wave maybe coming back.

[HintOfMint]

Yup, just saw the pictures - looks like she has some curlies! Maybe coconut oil and moisturizing conditioners will help.

She might have crazy mixed up hair like me. I have curly hairs growing along-side straight hairs, and it makes for quite a strange-looking texture sometimes. I do my best to smooth the short surface hairs down and encourage the rest to do their thing. First day of washing I have wavies/curlies, after that it starts going straight.

One more thought: if she's been experimenting with flat irons or curling irons, that could be damage. If she wants to heat style, she will need deep conditioning treatments and a heat-protectant spray. The sprays don't prevent heat damage, but they do help.

I agree with the crazy mixed up hair. I have a halo like that and it's gotten increasingly like that the older I get. I also have patches of straight hair and patches of wavy hair and random curlies thrown in for the mix. My halo is a collection of really coarse curly wiry hairs that are different from all the other hairs next to them. It's just the way they are, and it seems like your daughter has it. h

Damp bunning helps, as does shea butter. It doesn't look like brushed out curls, but rather brushed out waves, or dry waves. Conditioner and leave-in conditioners are her friend. Combs work for me, although they may not work for your daughter.

[jaine]

OP, I hope you NEVER express your feelings about her hair to her face ("it looks AWFUL!!" and all that) - you can really do some serious damage to a kid's psychological well-being by insulting them like that.

Her hair sounds curly.

[SlightlySoprano]

Well that was exactly MY head of hair at age 14!!! My mother was always convinced that I had straight hair (go look at my albums and laugh) and would brush brush brush brush brush blowdry brush flat iron etc etc etc

Have you tried cheap-o gel? Its not the best thing ever for her hair, but if she's feeling self conscious she can encourage her whole head to curl by scrunching with some gel after the shower which will DEFINITELY help disguise the frizzies once it's dry :) HTH :blossom:

[SunShinesOnWint]

jaine you really need to finish reading my stuff before you assume to me...

so is this what I am to keep expecting?? I read we are to be considerate, maybe I made a mistake looking for help here...

[jaine]

jaine you really need to finish reading my stuff before you assume to me...

so is this what I am to keep expecting?? I read we are to be considerate, maybe I made a mistake looking for help here...

You insulted your daughter, in all caps, in the title of your thread. I think I'm well justified to stand up in her defense. Parents should not insult their children.

[SlightlySoprano]

Jaine I really don't think that's necessary... She wasn't directly insulting her daughter, I think it was more concern for her daughters appearance in a public society that can be very outwardly cruel and judgmental to others due to their appearance.

Regardless, it is not our place to tell people how to talk about their children...

Just putting the golden rule out here :blossom: no offense meant to anybody

[SunShinesOnWint]

SlightlySoprano hit the nail on the head...

[jaine]

I'm very sensitive about parents insulting their children because I've been trying to console my beautiful 16-year old sister and trying to convince her that she's beautiful even though my mom told her she needed to lose weight and told her she had too much body hair. And it brought up a lot of bad memories of my mom insulting me in similar ways - things that I'm not completely finished healing from yet.

Carry on...

[SlightlySoprano]

I'm very sensitive about parents insulting their children because I've been trying to console my beautiful 16-year old sister and trying to convince her that she's beautiful even though my mom told her she needed to lose weight and told her she had too much body hair. And it brought up a lot of bad memories of my mom insulting me in similar ways - things that I'm not completely finished healing from yet.

Carry on...


I'm very sorry that had to happen Jaine, much love,:pray: positive thoughts and energy to both you and your younger sister

[jaine]

I'm very sorry that had to happen Jaine, much love,:pray: positive thoughts and energy to both you and your younger sister

It didn't have to happen, but ....
Thanks.

[SunShinesOnWint]

I hate that people go through so much bad stuff..I added a post in the Parental section, it might give you better insight to how I am..and how against being mean to kids I am....

I hate to say this, but too many people jump to conclusions, my child is not on the internet forums, she has never seen my posts, and I told 'you' her hair looked awful, because at times it does it is extremely noticeable and I wanted to help make it looks tamed and not sticking out really bad, but she was never hit with any insults or put downs..I am mad that I was assumed a bad mom, nobody even asked me if I was insulting you just assumed I was...

I, like many of you was not treated so kindly by my mom at times and I always try to keep on making sure not to say things to her that are mean. She is happy, and not talked down to...

Do you know what it feels like for people to take you the wrong way and keep on doing it? I thought being here would be wonderful, not a painful thing..

I want you guys to remember, things are not always as they may seem...and people like me might phrase something wrong without knowing how others would feel...and that you don't really 'know' people online so dont jump to conclusions, it really hurts those you do it to, like me :(

Thank you for the hair advice, now I think it might be better for myself if I just exit the forums..I really do regret the misunderstanding..

[ladonna]

To me her hair just look's like she growing up, her hair IMO looks like it's getting coarser and thicker. My hair look's similar if I do not do moisture treatment weekly and use oil as a leave-in. And hug's sometimes us mom's freak out over our worry for our kids and say thing's harsher than we mean, I personally didn't see anything you said as bad, I see more a panicked mom.

[jaine]

my child is not on the internet forums, she has never seen my posts, and I told 'you' her hair looked awful, because at times it does it is extremely noticeable and I wanted to help make it looks tamed and not sticking out really bad, but she was never hit with any insults or put downs

But how would she feel if she found this thread? It's a public forum. It has her picture in it. I think it would be a wise move to edit all posts and titles to remove the insults - it's the least you can do in case she stumbles upon this thread at some point looking for hair advice.

[endtransmission]

Wow, the attitudes on this thread really leave a bad taste in my mouth. I know I'm just a lurker, but I can't help but interject on how inappropriate some of these responses are of people jumping down OP's throat and telling her she's a bad parent.

Yes, the title may be a bit off-putting, but if anyone put in the effort to actually read the thread they would know OP is only trying to help her daughter care for her hair properly and she did not mean to come off as insulting to her daughter.

SunShinesOnWint, I apologize people are disrespecting you and projecting their own mommy issues onto you. I completely understand your reasoning behind wanting to leave these boards. Regardless, I want to say welcome to LHC and remind you that lurking is always an option :D

[Sunshineliz]

I hate that people go through so much bad stuff..I added a post in the Parental section, it might give you better insight to how I am..and how against being mean to kids I am....

I hate to say this, but too many people jump to conclusions, my child is not on the internet forums, she has never seen my posts, and I told 'you' her hair looked awful, because at times it does it is extremely noticeable and I wanted to help make it looks tamed and not sticking out really bad, but she was never hit with any insults or put downs..I am mad that I was assumed a bad mom, nobody even asked me if I was insulting you just assumed I was...

I, like many of you was not treated so kindly by my mom at times and I always try to keep on making sure not to say things to her that are mean. She is happy, and not talked down to...

Do you know what it feels like for people to take you the wrong way and keep on doing it? I thought being here would be wonderful, not a painful thing..

I want you guys to remember, things are not always as they may seem...and people like me might phrase something wrong without knowing how others would feel...and that you don't really 'know' people online so dont jump to conclusions, it really hurts those you do it to, like me :(

Thank you for the hair advice, now I think it might be better for myself if I just exit the forums..I really do regret the misunderstanding..

eh, don't leave over it. I had a thread early on when I joined and some of it was misunderstood and people wrote things that hurt my feelings (and it had to do with my kids and parenting too, so I was really sensitive about it.) I got over it, and this place has been generally wonderful and supportive.

As far as your daughter--super cute! If she's worried about the frizz, then by all means help her in a positive way. I also think she's likely wavy and wurly-haired. I took a picture of my own canopy frizz and it's a little less curly, but very prevalent in those particular photos. What I learned here is that I needed to stay away from shampoo! CO washing was what I needed to tame the frizz. It's not gone, but it's better. It really is just the baby hairs trying to curl but not having the longer hair to join with. Brushing is a bad idea in general for that hairtype also. Finger-combing in the shower works well. I have a wurly daughter too and I do these things for her, and am slowly teaching her how to care for it, but her hair has always been this way and I've had more time. And she's young enough that she still needs help in the bath. Most of the time she's ok with the new stuff in her haircare and it looks much better (although she was always cute and I never expressed a preference to her for how she wears her hair.;))

Perhaps if you want to show her how to properly wash her hair, since she's a teen you could do it over the sink? Or the side of the tub it you have a hand-held shower head. If she were to try CO washing, I'd definitely help her over the sink as it's important to make sure you rinse all the conditioner off the scalp.

And if you need cheap and wanted to try CO--alot of people have great results with the cheapest ones like Suave and V05. There's a massive thread here on that method.

[ellisbell]

SunShinesOnWint I delurked to reply to this post, and I think I can give you some insight as to why some people are upset (though I think the posters have given you some amazing information). Many of us with wavy or curly hair have been bullied all of are lives by both family members and peers because our hair is not straight and sleek. We have been forced to straighten and damage our hair, and for many of us, accepting our curls and wurls despite the societal pressures has been liberating. Your post, maybe unfairly, caused many of us to project our own hurtful experiences as children onto you.

I assume people are also upset because the original post makes it seem that you cut your daughters hair without her consent while she was crying. This would be an incredibly traumatic experience for anyone especially a child, and I know it upset me when I read it. Perhaps, this has been misinterpreted, and I hope it was, because honestly I cried when I read that.

It isn't helpful to dwell on these things but I wanted you to understand the hurt that often comes with having wavy and curly hair and your post triggered some of that. You seem like a great mom, as you want to try to rectify the situation, so I wanted to commend you for that. I also hope you do not feel like I am attacking you but I wanted you to understand where some of us are coming from.

I wanted to give you some additional advice on the care of curly hair that will not break the bank. I would suggest you try following the Curly Girl Method. I have very similar hair to your daughters and have had amazing success. In CG you try to stay away from sulfates and silicones. For me cutting out harsh sulfates has been the single most important thing for my hair. As many others have said CO washing is great for curly hair; suave naturals is super cheap and many curlies love it. A cheap rinse out is Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition. You mention she has a hard time with conditioner and I would suggest you have it rinsed out and tell her to scrunch in a dime size amount or either conditioner as a leave in (or an oil like coconut oil works well as a leave in too). You can also have her experiment with some products to help her waves; some cheap styling products from the drugstore that are popular are L’Oreal Out of Bed, LA Looks Sport Gel or just some cheap Aloe Vera gel from Wal-Mart. Many wavies need to Lo Poo once a week or so Giovanni 50:50 or Triple Tea Treat are both ones that I have used. Other than the styling products all of the other products are actually really healthy for every hair type and I have noticed a lot of long haired people have adopted the CG routine. Also all of the products mentioned are under $10.

I would suggest maybe having your daughter help you figure out her hair type and research the CG method. She may have some fun investigating with you. Also it would be fun to mix different at home deep treatments with you and both put the treatments on. Henna has been amazing for my hair condition, maybe do a henna gloss together as well?

I would also suggest you peruse the curly hair threads on here and naturallycurly.com has also been a great resource for me and they have a forum there for parents of curly hair kids that might be useful. I hope you understand that your post may have triggered people. I hope you do not let a few negative responses stop you from exploring how to help your daughter or leave these boards because they really are super helpful.

[3azza]

I grew frizz like that and discovered at the age of 13 that i had curly hair. I had curl before i was two yrs old, then straight hair until 9. If this is the case, do not brush it after washing, and use a leave in conditioner which leaves it smooth and tame the frizz.

[hototogisu]

You posted pictures of your 13 year old daughter in a public forum under the subject line 'my daughter's hair looks awful.' As far as I'm concerned, this is mean and cruel. Your behavior speaks volumes. This isn't your hair we're talking about; it's someone else's. Your child. Who has not consented to this conversation.

[Evie]

You posted pictures of your 13 year old daughter in a public forum under the subject line 'my daughter's hair looks awful.' As far as I'm concerned, this is mean and cruel. Your behavior speaks volumes. This isn't your hair we're talking about; it's someone else's. Your child. Who has not consented to this conversation.

Ok maybe the title was the thing that upset you, but have you read the other posts from the OP? she is trying to improve the quality of her daughter's hair not simply moan about it or criticise her daughter - to me it looks, as others have said, like she is concerned. It seems, from the other helpful posts she has got, there might have been things to try she did not know about. I personally hope she and her daughter have fun trying them, learn more about curly hair care, and that the OP stays on this forum because I'd feel run out of town if I was her. And I'm sorry if this is a community that makes folks feel that way. No one had to start a personal attack on the OP, especially when she explained her position several times. OP I really hope some of the helpful suggestions on here persuade you to stay.

[jaine]

A moderator can change the thread title, if that helps. How about this?
"My daughter's hair is changing - please tell me what to do!"

I see that the OP already edited some posts to make them more kind, and to remove the face picture of her daughter ... I think that's a good move and very much appreciated.

Back to the topic of hair though ... I have the same kind of halo frizz and I like to dry my hair in a high cinnamon bun with gel. This gets the random individual curly hairs in line with the rest of my hair, but it's still big and curly when I take it down (which I like). Caruso steam rollers are also very helpful if I want it to look even more smooth - they aren't damaging.

[lacefrost]

OP, I'm sorry you've gotten so much flack. I think you're doing a wonderful job trying to care for your daughter's hair. While the way you initially said things may have been off-putting, I get why you said it like that: you were freaking out. I get that.

I also want to say that actions speak louder than words. So even if you did misspeak about how her hair is behaving, you're not trying to change her hair, you're learning to work with her hair. My mother never said my hair was ugly but at her earliest opportunity, she chemically relaxed it straight. I was 4. I think her actions said more about how she felt about my hair than anything she could have said. She basically made my hair look the exact opposite of what it wanted to do. So I think it's awesome that you're trying to work with her hair instead of fighting against it.

And I'm sorry people have unloaded their issues on you. I get why they did it but it's not fair to you. You don't deserve that. I hope you do stay and realize it's not always like this. :flower:

[Miss Catrina]

Good grief. I WISH my mother had cared enough about my looks to make suggestions as I was growing up. Instead she didn't even take care of herself and as such didn't help me out a bit. It took me 15-16 years to get a clue of how to dress, do my hair or makeup, etc on my own.

Teaching daughters how to look their best is part of a mother's job. And if this frizziness is partially the result of heat styling as some have suggested; it is going to get worse and worse - so even if it doesn't bother her daughter now, it will eventually, and she will be wishing her mother or someone else had suggested wrapping, a lower heat setting, protective spray, etc etc.

[Lianna]

And if this frizziness is partially the result of heat styling as some have suggested....

I just searched this thread for such suggestion. No one suggested that she was heat styling and now has damage (the frizzies).

We need to STOP thinking every freaking frizz is damaged hair, it's not, some hair types are like this. Wavies and curlies put product and gel and whatever on it to make it "behave", or they do "no-heat styles" to contain it. Natural curls don't all just fall in place in perfect ringlets.

If anyone ask me I'll openly say yes I oil my hair so isn't so frizzy, and I do heatless styles when I want a greater smooth result.

Many straight haired people don't know this, the OP is just learning aswell.

[spidermom]

I just searched this thread for such suggestion. No one suggested that she was heat styling and now has damage (the frizzies).

We need to STOP thinking every freaking frizz is damaged hair, it's not, some hair types are like this. Wavies and curlies put product and gel and whatever on it to make it "behave", or they do "no-heat styles" to contain it. Natural curls don't all just fall in place in perfect ringlets.

If anyone ask me I'll openly say yes I oil my hair so isn't so frizzy, and I do heatless styles when I want a greater smooth result.

Many straight haired people don't know this, the OP is just learning aswell.

I didn't assume the frizz was heat styling. I suggested that IF she has been experimenting with heat styling, as pre-teens and teens often do, it COULD be damage.

[Ava666]

CHEESE!!! :D lets all play nice.

I can understand where the OP is coming from, my mom wouldn't let me grow out my hair when I was younger because I wouldn't take proper care of it. My aunt did the same with her daughter.

My hair does that too, and I don't have curls just a very slight wave. To get my hair flat (like putting it in a ponytail, to get the top of my head smooth) I will put a tiny bit of conditioner on my hands and water it down and then run my hand over my head, it seems to help.

[Lianna]

I didn't assume the frizz was heat styling. I suggested that IF she has been experimenting with heat styling, as pre-teens and teens often do, it COULD be damage.

I see. I must have missed your edit for that post (even with my fast search). I was reading the thread as it went along, specially because I've made friends with the OP.

It's fine to say that as an alternative, but I (and maybe some other wavy/curlies) would prefer it if that suggestion came after the sugggestion that it's her actual texture. Which you did. I'm only oposed when the first and "obvious" conclusion is frizz=damage.

I know you wouldn't do that, after all you are a fellow frizzie head, with all due respect! :D

[MoreWhenNuh]

I've seen these kind of frizzy halos on A LOT of young pre-teen and teen girls. If it helps at all I don't see near as many on older teens and young adults still with the same degree of frizz. I'd say it's safe to say the hair goes through its change or like so many ladies have already said they just learned how to work with it. I wish you luck! Im sure with this forum as your guide you'll get it figured out. :)

[jaine]

I think this thread really boils down to 3 interesting questions:

1. Are there any situations where it's morally OK for a parent to insult their child's appearance?

2. Is the OP insulting her child's appearance?

3. Are there any situations where it's morally OK to give parents unsolicited advice?



I'm very curious to hear people clarify how they feel about #1 especially.

[Lianna]

@jaine
1. No
2. Yes, she did. She called it awful. She reconized she did something wrong and went to have an uplifting talk with her child afterwards.
3. Yes, however it depends who's giving that advice. I'd say it's okay when it comes from people with legal authority, because parents have the legal right to educate their children.

[Hollyfire3]

I would try to do a moisture treatment first. Is her hair thick? If so, it needs some sort of heavy moisture to weigh it down and make it soft again. Try to use a leave in and try to do regular trim, not just once a year. Maybe the hair is just damaged and needs a treatment of some sort to help it? please post pics so we can help you some more.

[jaine]

I think this thread really boils down to 3 interesting questions:

1. Are there any situations where it's morally OK for a parent to insult their child's appearance?

2. Is the OP insulting her child's appearance?

3. Are there any situations where it's morally OK to give parents unsolicited advice?



I'm very curious to hear people clarify how they feel about #1 especially.


@jaine
1. No
2. Yes, she did. She called it awful. She reconized she did something wrong and went to have an uplifting talk with her child afterwards.
3. Yes, however it depends who's giving that advice. I'd say it's okay when it comes from people with legal authority, because parents have the legal right to educate their children.




Weirdly, I think I'm going to answer "yes" to #1. Insults about the child's appearance might be morally OK in some situations, depending on the context ... however I think that insults about the child's body are never OK (there's a difference).
For example if the kid has Kool-Aid spilled all over his shirt and he's about to leave for his first job interview. A parent could say "your shirt looks horrible!" and he could change his shirt. That would be OK. That's an insult about an inanimate object that happens to be on or near the child. But insults about a child's body are completely different - hair, skin, height, weight, etc. - I think it's never morally acceptable to insult a child's body. That has too much potential to cause lasting emotional harm.

I agree with Lianna on #2, I think that one is easy...

For #3 I think it's morally acceptable to give a parent unsolicited advice if there's a possibility that the child might be undergoing physical or emotional harm. The child's well-being trumps any negative feelings the parent might have about receiving advice. Depending on the situation, I think it might even be morally obligatory to step in and say something.

[Hollyfire3]

I just searched this thread for such suggestion. No one suggested that she was heat styling and now has damage (the frizzies).

We need to STOP thinking every freaking frizz is damaged hair, it's not, some hair types are like this. Wavies and curlies put product and gel and whatever on it to make it "behave", or they do "no-heat styles" to contain it. Natural curls don't all just fall in place in perfect ringlets.

If anyone ask me I'll openly say yes I oil my hair so isn't so frizzy, and I do heatless styles when I want a greater smooth result.

Many straight haired people don't know this, the OP is just learning aswell.


Thank u for clarifying! I dont heat style my hair and it still frizzes like crazy because it is so thick! Does the oil actually work well in high humidty or does it get sticky? I need somethign to tame my frizz. . .

[Lianna]

About number 3, I think you can give the advice but they don't have to listen to you. I hope this doesn't sound rude, what I mean is, the parents aren't obligated to 'obey' strangers' advice...now a social worker or judge...they have to. And I don't think people should be listening to strangers advice often either. I give advice around here, however, one should be aware enough that I don't know enough about their lives, that I might be wrong, that I'm just an opinion.

About 1. I just think insults are never needed. We can just talk. Your shirt is dirty, wouldn't it be better to change it?

[Lianna]

@Hollyfire3
Lots of oils work to tame frizz, depends a lot on your hair type. Some people like gel, others butters, serums etc. There are a lot of options. You can even dilute 1 tps of lemon juice on 500 ml of water as a final rinse for it (I'm about to try this myself).

[jaine]

About number 3, I think you give the advice but they don't have to listen to you. I hope this doesn't sound rude, what I mean is, the parents aren't obligated to 'obey' strangers' advice...now a social worker or judge...they have to. And I don't think people should be listening to strangers advice often either. I give advice around here, however, one should be aware enough that I don't know enough about their lives, that I might be wrong, that I'm just an opinion.

About 1. I just think insults are never needed. We can just talk. Your shirt is dirty, wouldn't it be better to change it?

Hmmm, hmmm.... you might be convincing me to change my answer to #1! :)

I do agree no one has to follow unsolicited advice unless it's from a judge or social worker or something like that.

[Lianna]

Something I just thought about number 1. What if you insult someone's "shirt" in a crowded public area? That could be very damaging to the person. I'm very shy in real life and don't like much attention. I'd personally be very upset, a lot more than an average outgoing person, perhaps. Lots of people looking at my busted shirt?! No, thanks! :D

[jaine]

Something I just thought about number 1. What if you insult someone's "shirt" in a crowded public area? That could be very damaging to the person. I'm very shy in real life and don't like much attention. I'd personally be very upset, a lot more than an average outgoing person, perhaps. Lots of people looking at my busted shirt?! No, thanks! :D

That is true. I think you just convinced me to change my answer :) ... because a comment about the shirt might be a comment about his decision-making process (when he chose what to wear), or his physical coordination level (when he spilled Kool-Aid on it) ... etc. So in that case an insult about the shirt could still be an insult about the child, not an insult about the object...

[hototogisu]

I'm glad the OP responded to (valid!) criticism by taking down photos of her daughter and revising her language, but I'm irked that some people are talking about this in terms of 'strangers forcing unsolicited advice on a poor parent.'

The OP solicited this advice by posting on a public forum. When you do that, you'll often get advice you don't like.

A bigger question is: what are the ethics of parents sharing their children's lives online? An entire generation is coming up who have been Facebooked since birth. It raises interesting, and urgent, questions, and, again, I'm glad the OP did the right thing by taking this on board.

FWIW: I was a teacher for many years, and a few of my colleagues at the centre where I did my PhD researched children, education and the Internet. I'm not saying I'm an expert; I'm just saying I've been around teenagers and I have an investment in these issues.

[Lianna]

Oh, and if someone is undergoing physical harm, we must prevent it or try to prevent it within our means, or that's a crime itself (the act of not helping). At least in my country.

[Lianna]

I'm irked that some people are talking about this in terms of 'strangers forcing unsolicited advice on a poor parent.'

First of all, I think jaine's questions were interesting, and can help us think what kind of advice we are giving.
........
The OP solicited this advice by posting on a public forum. When you do that, you'll often get advice you don't like.

Let's be reasonable, this is a hair forum, and the OP just asked for hair advice.
.......
A bigger question is: what are the ethics of parents sharing their children's lives online?

Sharing lives (certain details) should not be done, however, sharing a headshot is hardly breaking their right to privacy.


My answers in blue.

[Hollyfire3]

@Hollyfire3
Lots of oils work to tame frizz, depends a lot on your hair type. Some people like gel, others butters, serums etc. There are a lot of options. You can even dilute 1 tps of lemon juice on 500 ml of water as a final rinse for it (I'm about to try this myself).


I tried ACV and that helped much with frizz, my hair is wavy/curly BSL and very thick, thick like i can't keep a ponytail in for more than 15 mins without a major headach. would the lemon juice lighten dark hair?

[Lianna]

I tried ACV and that helped much with frizz, my hair is wavy/curly BSL and very thick, thick like i can't keep a ponytail in for more than 15 mins without a major headach. would the lemon juice lighten dark hair?

At this rate, no.

[UltraBella]

The OP appears to love her daughter very much and seemed genuine in her posts, and I did read everything BEFORE it was edited.
A few of you seem to be taking your own issues and applying them to a mother and daughter you don't know, and I personally think it's unnecessary.
I can honestly think of two times that I have told my daughter that her hair looked awful, and I completely meant it, so if that makes me a bad parent in anyone's eyes - please feel free to take your limited knowledge of me and be as judgmental as possible. It won't bother me a bit. I know who I am as a mother, and a few less than perfect moments, words or frustrations do not define me as a whole. The same applies to the OP.

[Hollyfire3]

At this rate, no.

thanks i might just try it! Humidty makes me soo crazy with what it does to my hair.

[jaine]

I think this thread really boils down to 3 interesting questions:

1. Are there any situations where it's morally OK for a parent to insult their child's appearance?

2. Is the OP insulting her child's appearance?

3. Are there any situations where it's morally OK to give parents unsolicited advice?



I'm very curious to hear people clarify how they feel about #1 especially.


The OP appears to love her daughter very much and seemed genuine in her posts, and I did read everything BEFORE it was edited.
A few of you seem to be taking your own issues and applying them to a mother and daughter you don't know, and I personally think it's unnecessary.
I can honestly think of two times that I have told my daughter that her hair looked awful, and I completely meant it, so if that makes me a bad parent in anyone's eyes - please feel free to take your limited knowledge of me and be as judgmental as possible. It won't bother me a bit. I know who I am as a mother, and a few less than perfect moments, words or frustrations do not define me as a whole. The same applies to the OP.

UltraBella I am curious how you would answer my questions above? I think they got lost on the other page but I am curious to hear from more people.

[MoreWhenNuh]

I think sometimes a parent can say something that might be considered by an outsider as insulting to their child. It depends on the relationship. If my Mother told me my hair looked awful or an outfit looked bad it wouldn't bother me in the least and she knows that. I have no doubt she thinks I'm beautiful and I've always known this. I'd rather her be honest with me. I actually wish she would've told me more often that something didn't look good. It might've saved me from a lot of bad junior high and high school pictures! LOL! I'm just saying it depends on the type of mother/daughter relationship and the personality and confidence level of the child.

[Lianna]

I'm just saying it depends on the type of mother/daughter relationship and the personality and confidence level of the child.

So a child with high confidence can hear how awful she/he is? I don't agree with this. There are ways to comunicate. Perhaps it's in the tone we say the word "awful". However I think we can say the same thing in a matter that the child won't feel inadequate.

The OP made a mistake and that was it. It doesn't reflect who she is as a whole. And nobody needs to be perfect. In my mind this turned into a discussion about the best behaviour we can be towards our children from now on. And without insults, in my opinion, is best.

[MoreWhenNuh]

So a child with high confidence can hear how awful she/he is? I don't agree with this. There are ways to comunicate. Perhaps it's in the tone we say the word "awful". However I think we can say the same thing in a matter that the child won't feel inadequate.

The OP made a mistake and that was it. It doesn't reflect who she is as a whole. And nobody needs to be perfect. In my mind this turned into a discussion about the best behaviour we can be towards our children from now on. And without insults, in my opinion, is best.

I said it depends on multiple factors. Not just a child's confidence. High confidence isn't an impenetrable shield. The tone it is given in is important too. And awful just sounds bad when you're reading it. Actually it sounds bad saying it too. I'd probably use a different word to describe whatever looks "awful". I'm speaking merely from the relationship I share with my mother and similarly my sisters and close friends. Would I tell my daughter something about her appearance looks awful? Definitely not at this time. And maybe never. Depends on her personality type and the relationship we share. And again probably wouldn't use "awful". The original OP was just frustrated. It happens to the best of us.

[lapushka]

I'm inclined at this point to say, could we get back on-topic, please? :roll: --> ways to limit frizz.

[jaine]

I'm inclined at this point to say, could we get back on-topic, please? :roll: --> ways to limit frizz.

Actually I think it's very much on-topic to discuss the morality of insulting children since there's an insult in all caps in the thread title.

Think about it this way: if there were a thread entitled "My daughter's Face Looks AWFUL!", with pictures of a completely normal healthy face, seeking advice about how to obtain plastic surgery for her... then I doubt the answers would be limited to just "Here's how to get plastic surgery! Good luck! Sounds frustrating, hang in there!"

[Sunshineliz]

Actually I think it's very much on-topic to discuss the morality of insulting children since there's an insult in all caps in the thread title.

Think about it this way: if there were a thread entitled "My daughter's Face Looks AWFUL!", with pictures of a completely normal healthy face, seeking advice about how to obtain plastic surgery for her... then I doubt the answers would be limited to just "Here's how to get plastic surgery! Good luck! Sounds frustrating, hang in there!"


Objections to specific treatment by OP have been noted (alot.) You could always start a new thread in the parenting section. Just sayin'.

[UltraBella]

Actually I think it's very much on-topic to discuss the morality of insulting children since there's an insult in all caps in the thread title.

Think about it this way: if there were a thread entitled "My daughter's Face Looks AWFUL!", with pictures of a completely normal healthy face, seeking advice about how to obtain plastic surgery for her... then I doubt the answers would be limited to just "Here's how to get plastic surgery! Good luck! Sounds frustrating, hang in there!"

Personally, I think it's disrespectful of you to continue hounding this thread because of a word choice you don't like. We get it, you are bothered by it. The OP has explained herself SEVERAL times and you should except her position on this matter and give her the benefit of the doubt. The big question should be, was there intent to hurt her daughter with the words she chose ? She has made it abundantly clear that hurting her daughter was not her intention. Why do you insist on calling her out on it over & over & over ??

[Starlight1986]

Personally, I think it's disrespectful of you to continue hounding this thread because of a word choice you don't like. We get it, you are bothered by it. The OP has explained herself SEVERAL times and you should except her position on this matter and give her the benefit of the doubt. The big question should be, was there intent to hurt her daughter with the words she chose ? She has made it abundantly clear that hurting her daughter was not her intention. Why do you insist on calling her out on it over & over & over ??
Agreed.
This is not the right place to discuss if the OP is a good parent and I think it's very inappropriate to again and again point out that she's oh such a bad mom.
As it was said here before, jaine, don't transfer your own problems and experiences to the OP and her daughter. It really gets annoying.
I think the OP seems to be a very carig mom.

[candycandace]

Holy cow...so much drama. ANYWAYS, I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say that I would love to see how your daughters hair turns out after trying the curly girl method on her. I hope all of this nonsense hasn't discouraged you on posting the results. :flower:

[honeyblonde]

Garnier Fructis makes a wonderful anti-frizz serum, it is called "Sleek & Shine". I live in the south and the humidity here can really take its toll on the hair!! This stuff works great!! :blossom:

[tigereye]

Woah calm down everyone, before I go raid the cheese box.

May I just remind you all about KNIT? (If you don't know what that is, go look here (http://www.longhaircommunity.com/forums/announcement.php?f=7&a=8) )
Think about what you post: Is it Kind, Necessary, Informative, and True?

These parenting comments are neither Kind, nor Necessary and hardly informative. The truthfulness cannot be testified either because no-one here knows this member or her daughter, and does not know the circumstances between them.
As it says in the origonal KNIT post, it is tolerance that is important. Not accpetance, but tolerance.
Parenting concerns should also stay in the parenting section, or in PM's.

Also, there's no use in moaning about the title name now. Its done. People have expressed concerns, but theres isnt much the OP can do about it now. I have not seen any thread titles changed during my time here. I'm sure the OP would need exceptional reasons to have it changed.

I understand all your concerns, but there are better ways to go about it. If you can't be kind, better say nothing at all. Especially if you havent read the whole thread.

---
So, back on topic, in the hope that the OP is still on these forums: Is she using silicones (the majority end in -cone, the most common I know of being amodimethicone), and SLS (sodium laureth sulphate) I never thought they did anything bad to my hair, until I tried switching to -cone free conditioners. Silicones had been drying out my hair to no end, simply by coating the hair and sealing the moisture out. (and for me, dry hair = frizz) -cone free conditioners seem to moisturise it much better, too. I buy mine from the pound-store (i'm UK, but you should get it from the equivalent where you are).
I do a moisture treatment once a week on my hair. It's kind of "me-time", a massive stress-reducer (especially when paired with a long bath and a good book), and does wonders for my hair.:D
Aloe Vera Gel worked well for my frizzies when they were especially bad in the humid summer, but could sometimes be counter-productive in the dry winter air.
Try out the curly girl method. I really hope it goes well for you, and I hope all this nastiness hasn't put you off coming back.

[jaine]

I would be willing to move the morality discussion to a different thread - I wonder if the people I'm the most interested in hearing from would be willing to come to a new thread and give their insight? I'm most interested in hearing from the people who disagree with what I'm writing - hearing only from people who agree with me would be kind of boring. :)

Would anyone who disagrees with me be interested in discuss questions 1 & 3 below in a different thread? If so I'll make one. If not I can drop it even though it is very interesting to me.


I think this thread really boils down to 3 interesting questions:

1. Are there any situations where it's morally OK for a parent to insult their child's appearance?

2. Is the OP insulting her child's appearance?

3. Are there any situations where it's morally OK to give parents unsolicited advice?



(Question 2 I think has already been answered and I think we all agree on that one ... yes, but she made her best attempt to set things right again with her daughter in person.)

[tigereye]

I would be willing to move the morality discussion to a different thread - I wonder if the people I'm the most interested in hearing from would be willing to come to a new thread and give their insight? I'm most interested in hearing from the people who disagree with what I'm writing - hearing only from people who agree with me would be kind of boring. :)

Would anyone who disagrees with me be interested in discuss questions 1 & 3 below in a different thread? If so I'll make one. If not I can drop it even though it is very interesting to me.


Yes. I'd be happy to discuss opinions on questions 1 & 3 in a different thread, as they are in general terms, and would be interesting to get a few different takes on.

[Kaelee]

The OP appears to love her daughter very much and seemed genuine in her posts, and I did read everything BEFORE it was edited.
A few of you seem to be taking your own issues and applying them to a mother and daughter you don't know, and I personally think it's unnecessary.
I can honestly think of two times that I have told my daughter that her hair looked awful, and I completely meant it, so if that makes me a bad parent in anyone's eyes - please feel free to take your limited knowledge of me and be as judgmental as possible. It won't bother me a bit. I know who I am as a mother, and a few less than perfect moments, words or frustrations do not define me as a whole. The same applies to the OP.

Love this post. Ultrabella, you rock!

I also think it's pretty horrible the way the OP (sorry OP, forget your name lol) is being jumped on even after specifically stating that she is offended and only came here for hair advice. I can't blame her, I would be pretty darn offended to.

FWIW, I think it's awesome that she cares enough to get good advice on how to care for her daughter's hair. Sometimes parents make mistakes (EVERY parent makes mistakes...I don't care who you are no one is perfect) and I think it's pretty clear that she has the best of intentions.

And OP, sorry I can't help, my hair is straight as a stick. I vaguely remember I might have had a frizzy halo when I was younger, but at your daughter's age (she's BEAUTIFUL btw!) I didn't care to do anything about it and when I got a little older I was more interested in dying it purple. :D

[Kaelee]

Objections to specific treatment by OP have been noted (alot.) You could always start a new thread in the parenting section. Just sayin'.

I was considering suggesting this but I see Sunshineliz has beaten me to it.

[Demetrue]

Her hair looks like maybe she is brushing when it is still wet? maybe have her gently detangle with wide tooth comb in the shower with conditioner on her hair, then do not comb again until it is totally dry. Also I like John Frieda's frizz-ease thermal protector - I don't use heat, but I smooth a small amount through my hair while it is still wet and it really helps with the frizzies.

[getoffmyskittle]

My hair did that when I brushed it with a regular plastic bristled brush. The long hairs can pretend to be straight, but the baby hairs usually can't, especially when freshly washed.

My mom insulted my hair when I was little. She said it was too thin to grow really long and it only looked good blow-dried. And the way she was taking care of it, that was totally true. :gabigrin: I know she didn't mean it abusively and so will the OP's daughter, I'm sure. One-offs aren't going to kill a kid's self esteem, though a pervasive habitual pattern might.

[jaine]

I would be willing to move the morality discussion to a different thread - I wonder if the people I'm the most interested in hearing from would be willing to come to a new thread and give their insight? I'm most interested in hearing from the people who disagree with what I'm writing - hearing only from people who agree with me would be kind of boring.

Would anyone who disagrees with me be interested in discuss questions 1 & 3 below in a different thread? If so I'll make one. If not I can drop it even though it is very interesting to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaine
I think this thread really boils down to 3 interesting questions:

1. Are there any situations where it's morally OK for a parent to insult their child's appearance?

2. Is the OP insulting her child's appearance?

3. Are there any situations where it's morally OK to give parents unsolicited advice?

(Question 2 I think has already been answered and I think we all agree on that one ... yes, but she made her best attempt to set things right again with her daughter in person.)


Yes. I'd be happy to discuss opinions on questions 1 & 3 in a different thread, as they are in general terms, and would be interesting to get a few different takes on.

I will make one as soon as I figure out what to call it... let me stew on that for a bit

I would really love to get responses from parents who truly believe they are "helping" and don't even realize that they are insulting the child - for example, the mother who offered to pay for a nose job for her daughter, or the mother who got her 4-year old daughter's hair relaxed ... or a less extreme example with physical changes that are less permanent ... This whole category of situations where the "mother thinks they're helping but child perceives an insult" is very interesting to me. But someone who does that might not even click on a thread that has the world "insult" in the title because they had good intentions and thought they were helping. I will think about what to call it and then make a new thread....

[gracenotes]

piffyanne it seems to do it no matter when...But my daughter is really bad with the conditioner, she is trying to do what i told her, but she still either has a lot left in her hair after the bath/shower to the point you can see it, or she ends up washing it all out...



Leaving in a bit of conditioner sounds like it could help. I've never been able to figure out how to make the whole rinse-most-of-it-out-but-leave-a-little-in thing. What I do instead is apply a pea-sized amount of conditioner to very wet hair as soon as I'm done showering, and then gently squeeze out my hair. I find that this works a lot better for me for controlling how much conditioner gets left in my hair. Maybe that would be helpful for your daughter as well.:flower:

Her hair sounds EXACTLY like my hair texture when I was 12 or 13 (and even now, to some extent.) Damp braiding/bunning has also been incredibly helpful in making frizzies lay flatter.

[piffyanne]

My hair did that when I brushed it with a regular plastic bristled brush. The long hairs can pretend to be straight, but the baby hairs usually can't, especially when freshly washed.
:agape:
This thread is starting to make me question all I thought I knew about my own head. I scrunched my hair with conditioner once, and it dried wurly. I thought it was a cool once-in-a-lifetime thing, but I was able to do the same thing for prom night. >dawning awe as a new realm of possibilities opens before me<

[HintOfMint]

:agape:
This thread is starting to make me question all I thought I knew about my own head. I scrunched my hair with conditioner once, and it dried wurly. I thought it was a cool once-in-a-lifetime thing, but I was able to do the same thing for prom night. >dawning awe as a new realm of possibilities opens before me<

I always thought I had "fluffy straight" hair, hair that was straight, just... fluffy. If I had known about the categorization system I would have put my hair at a 1C. When I went to New Orleans, my hair took all that extra moisture and curled up a storm. When I joined LHC, I put two and two together and realized I was in the twos range. I'm probably more than a 2A, but I have different patches of hair that dry wavier than others so I'm going with 2A for now.

To the OP, I believe that it was just frustration talking and that you genuinely have your daughter's best interests at heart. Best of luck.

[ellisbell]

:agape:
This thread is starting to make me question all I thought I knew about my own head. I scrunched my hair with conditioner once, and it dried wurly. I thought it was a cool once-in-a-lifetime thing, but I was able to do the same thing for prom night. >dawning awe as a new realm of possibilities opens before me<
I also always thought I had straightish hair and blowdried it straight for years and would even use a damn straightening iron so it would look sleek. It is so funny that I never questioned that maybe i needed to go through all this work because my hair was not straight but wavy!

I have been following the curly girl method for a few months and my hair just keeps getting curlier. I would totally recommend trying to wear your hair curly, you never know, you may have hidden ringlets.

[getoffmyskittle]

I always thought I had "fluffy straight" hair, hair that was straight, just... fluffy. If I had known about the categorization system I would have put my hair at a 1C. When I went to New Orleans, my hair took all that extra moisture and curled up a storm. When I joined LHC, I put two and two together and realized I was in the twos range. I'm probably more than a 2A, but I have different patches of hair that dry wavier than others so I'm going with 2A for now.

To the OP, I believe that it was just frustration talking and that you genuinely have your daughter's best interests at heart. Best of luck.

That's exactly what I thought, that my hair was "fluffy" but not really very wavy or wurly.

As you can see from my signature, I was wrong.

piffyanne... stop combing and see where that gets you. ;)

[piffyanne]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/392688_10150409858312282_632327281_8794307_1186155 75_n.jpg
These pictures are from 2008. The first is brushed, the second two are scrunched.

OP, I'm going to be 22 in January, and I'm STILL learning about my head, apparently. Your daughter is lucky to have you helping her figure out hers, as it gets really confusing sometimes. Stay where you are, and keep being there to help her navigate tricky changes as they come, and she'll appreciate your help for the rest of her life, (although she may never tell you in as many words. I'm still just a daughter, and I know how we work.):blossom:

[Cania]

OP, please just ignore the drama some people are stirring up. I would have mentioned not telling her it looks bad if it hadn't already been mentioned and I think your response to that reminder was very noble - you seem like a great mother to me, concerned for her child, but who like the rest of us is not 100% without flaw! So please don't let this upset you, if it is.

I don't know if these things have already been mentioned, but I had similar hair at her age and it's been getting much better over the years.
Definitely DO NOT let her get layers though, it makes it so much worse (at least for me it does!)
Has anyone suggester aloe and oil as a leave in? I've read that it's fantastic for the frizzies. I think it wa aloe + caster + coconut, but I'm sure another poster would know the specifics. :)

[piffyanne]

people, if you want to get up-in-arms over something, go complain about THIS instead (I found it linked from a Renegray forum, and felt SICK reading it): http://www.city-data.com/forum/hair-care/260430-why-do-some-women-refuse-color.html

THAT OP'er has more malice in ONE post than I've seen in this entire thread, and I say that having been following this thread closely from the beginning, and having seen all the un-edited posts. I think the OP'er in THIS thread has been behaving nicely, and seems to show concern, NOT any kind of harmful emotion, about her daughter's hair change and the comments she may get. When I first saw the name of the thread, I was put off, too, but I took the time to read and try to understand, and now I'm sure it wasn't meant as an insult, but as plea for help.

Let's try harder to keep the advice coming, the insults absent, and let's all cross our fingers that we haven't scared her away permanently from our lovely forum. We can be better than that link I've included, I've seen it on other threads, and I want to see it HERE. (Let's emphasize the "TLC" part of TLHC!)

[katienoonan]

OP I would suggest a coney sleekening serum, I use the Aussie serum, it's not cheap as chips but it lasts for a long time

http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/320x360/a_c/Aussie-Curl-Definition-Serum_b.jpg


In the meantime I think a few pretty headbands and hairclips are in order, just to keep the halo tamed.


I will say the thread title was a bit abraisive... but having read all of the posts It's really refreshing and lovely to see a mum so concerned for her daughters wellbeing. I hope this kind of early nurturing of natural hair texture will help your daughter grow a long beautiful curly/wavy/straight/happy mane :cheese:

[Neya]

I just want to jump in and say that i so wish growing up my mom knew or had the time to learn to help me with hair/make up as a teen.
She was very supportive of my long hair, but she had no idea on hir styles or the texture change I went through. She tried her best but she was a super shortie, and even if she prermed her hair she brushed when dry. She didnt really have time to research either, as a police officer she worked a bazillions hours a week and for 4 years also attended nursing school!
A few times she tried to take
Me to make up counters and purchase everything they recommended but as some may know those make-overs can be hit or miss. When I got horrible acne she tried to push the doctors for accutane but being a teenage girl they wouldn't give me anything stronger than tetracycline.

I really had no idea how to care/work with my hair & skin. I think it's wonderful you're trying to help your daughter out!

[MsBubbles]

Piffyanne: good grief! shudder::agape: I am speechless at the things those women/girls/people are saying on that thread you linked to!

[chelles2kids]

Haha; all oil does for me is make my sticky-ups oily.

I figured it would be worth mentioning since oils seem to help 'tame' mine and makes it so much smoother.;)
But it all depends on the time of oil, as well. :hmm: