How quickly does product build up on your hair?

[girlcat36]

I am completely frustrated with my hair. It is babyfine and curly. As a curly, I need conditioner and product to encourage and hold the curl; but as a fine hair, it quickly goes limp with build up. I am sulfate and cone free, and I oil sparingly. My hair builds up and looks lank within a week. The only thing that helps is a baking soda rinse. My hair always looks great after a baking soda rinse, although I know many people at LHC do not like baking soda for hair and consider it damaging. I am a little concerned about using baking soda too much, because at this point I am using it once a week.
I have recently discovered that my hair is low porosity, which may have something to do with this.

How quickly does your hair build up? Am I the only freak whose hair build up product so quickly?

[Orangerthanred]

In short: It never has.

I used to use every product in the world on my hair. Coney cremes, straightening serums, hairspray, and strong gel all at the same time. And I used to shampoo my hair x2 a week.

It never got limp, flat, greasy, etc. It actually gets bigger if I use a lot of products. I think my hair either deflects or absorbs it all. o_o

[jesis]

Have you tried DevaCurl Angel? Everything else built up on my hair pretty bad, but this stuff doesn't. I can use it on day 1 and not wash my hair 'til day 4. It will hold my curls without the buildup for the entire duration and it's probably the best product I've ever owned.

[Amber_Maiden]

Only time I ever had to clarify was when the dye I used didn't come fully out of my hair...

[girlcat36]

Wow. I could never get away with that! I wonder if porosity affects build up?

[ktani]

I am completely frustrated with my hair. It is babyfine and curly. As a curly, I need conditioner and product to encourage and hold the curl; but as a fine hair, it quickly goes limp with build up. I am sulfate and cone free, and I oil sparingly. My hair builds up and looks lank within a week. The only thing that helps is a baking soda rinse. My hair always looks great after a baking soda rinse, although I know many people at LHC do not like baking soda for hair and consider it damaging. I am a little concerned about using baking soda too much, because at this point I am using it once a week.
I have recently discovered that my hair is low porosity, which may have something to do with this.

How quickly does your hair build up? Am I the only freak whose hair build up product so quickly?

You are not a freak. Fine hair has more cuticle to it than other hair types. Conditioners work by coating the cuticle, and can and do weigh hair down with their ingredients. My hair looked much thinner when I used conditioner than it does now, without.

Baking soda does not have to be damaging. It is how you use it. It can damage hair used as a paste because it is abrasive. It fully dissolves in water though and you can control the dilution to not make it drying.

I was against baking soda at one time here because it is alkaline. I got educated by members here, some of whom have tap water that is about the same alkalinity as baking soda, pH 8. I also did not know at one time that it can completely dissolve in water.

Of course I researched and verified the above and the information is correct (I knew that the baking soda pH was 8 from prior research).

Try to use the lightest conditioners you can find and limit the oils you use to light ones as well and do not use too much.

ETA: It is very important to follow the baking soda rinse with an acidic rinse, like diluted vinegar or lemon juice as opposed to most conditioners. The pH will be lower and reduce tangling and hair stress. Then condition your hair.

[mariazelie]

I have baby fine hair. Product builds up on my hair quickly, making it limp and then "crunchy" and dry feeling on the ends. It has been like a vicious circle, adding something to counteract something else. I add more product to condition and make a worse mess. After being on a no sulfate shampoo for the past year, I felt my hair was in distress. As a trial I am now using Johnson's kid shampoo/conditioner combo called No More Tangles (I have been tangling like crazy since September.) I use the leave in conditioner called no more tangles as needed, wet or dry and so far I like it. I decided to try these products based on the fact that I have been fighting my baby-fine, childlike hair all my life. If I am going to have "child" hair I will try "child" products! Like I said, so far, so good.

[girlcat36]

Have you tried DevaCurl Angel? Everything else built up on my hair pretty bad, but this stuff doesn't. I can use it on day 1 and not wash my hair 'til day 4. It will hold my curls without the buildup for the entire duration and it's probably the best product I've ever owned.

I used a Deva gel(not sure if there are more than one in the Deva line) that I borrowed at DD's house last week and it did not do well in my hair, but I suspect it was due to glycerin which was the third or fourth ingredient. I'm trying to avoid humectants.

[girlcat36]

I have baby fine hair. Product builds up on my hair quickly, making it limp and then "crunchy" and dry feeling on the ends. It has been like a vicious circle, adding something to counteract something else. I add more product to condition and make a worse mess. After being on a no sulfate shampoo for the past year, I felt my hair was in distress. As a trial I am now using Johnson's kid shampoo/conditioner combo called No More Tangles (I have been tangling like crazy since September.) I use the leave in conditioner called no more tangles as needed, wet or dry and so far I like it. I decided to try these products based on the fact that I have been fighting my baby-fine, childlike hair all my life. If I am going to have "child" hair I will try "child" products! Like I said, so far, so good.

I have had good luck using Johnson's Baby Wash as a shampoo in the past. I'll check out the No More Tangles(though I suspect it may have cones).

[Georgies]

Weekly for me also. My hair type sounds similar to yours. I use a sulphate free shampoo weekly but everyone once in awhile I do use sulphates to get everything out. I am not totally cone free though.

Do you do ACV rinses after baking soda? I just actually tried it for the first time and it's wonderful!

[ktani]

Most hair products build-up whether it is noticable or not. It just may be that the build-up is not a problem, yet or at all for some people.

ETA: Until I stooped using products that built-up, I never knew my hair could be so different and grow long without breakage or split ends or not have thin scraggly ends entirely from breakage, and look thicker.

[girlcat36]

Weekly for me also. My hair type sounds similar to yours. I use a sulphate free shampoo weekly but everyone once in awhile I do use sulphates to get everything out. I am not totally cone free though.

Do you do ACV rinses after baking soda? I just actually tried it for the first time and it's wonderful!

I have been using citric acid rinses after using BS for a change. In the past I have always used ACV. Do you know your hair's porosity? I'm thinking that is the key to all this. In the past, I thought my hair was high porosity, and treated it accordingly. It ended up just being a mess all the time. I have noticed some improvement since changing my routine geared towards low porosity.

[girlcat36]

You are not a freak. Fine hair has more cuticle to it than other hair types. Conditioners work by coating the cuticle, and can and do weigh hair down with their ingredients. My hair looked much thinner when I used conditioner than it does now, without.

Baking soda does not have to be damaging. It is how you use it. It can damage hair used as a paste because it is abrasive. It fully dissolves in water though and you can control the dilution to not make it drying.

I was against baking soda at one time here because it is alkaline. I got educated by members here, some of whom have tap water that is about the same alkalinity as baking soda, pH 8. I also did not know at one time that it can completely dissolve in water.

Of course I researched and verified the above and the information is correct (I knew that the baking soda pH was 8 from prior research).

Try to use the lightest conditioners you can find and limit the oils you use to light ones as well and do not use too much.

ETA: It is very important to follow the baking soda rinse with an acidic rinse, like diluted vinegar or lemon juice as opposed to most conditioners. The pH will be lower and reduce tangling and hair stress. Then condition your hair.

Ah, thank you, ktani! I guess I just wanted to hear that BS wasn't going to kill my hair. I always dissolve it in warm water before pouring over my head.
Fine hair has more cuticles? I always thought the opposite!
My current routine:
Baking soda rinse, water rinse, moisturizing conditioner(while cuticle is still open from the BS), then wash my scalp with soap or shampoo, then I rinse it all out with water, then a citric acid rinse.

I was thinking that if I conditioned after the citric acid rinse, the conditioner would not penetrate my hair at all.


ETA: just found an article explaining my fine hair has more cuticle! http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/06/chemistry-of-your-hair-fine-hair.html

[ktani]

Ah, thank you, ktani! I guess I just wanted to hear that BS wasn't going to kill my hair. I always dissolve it in warm water before pouring over my head.
Fine hair has more cuticles? I always thought the opposite!
My current routine:
Baking soda rinse, water rinse, moisturizing conditioner(while cuticle is still open from the BS), then wash my scalp with soap or shampoo, then I rinse it all out with water, then a citric acid rinse.

I was thinking that if I conditioned after the citric acid rinse, the conditioner would not penetrate my hair at all.

Conditioners on the whole, your average conditioner, does not penetrate hair period. They are designed to work on hair cuticles.

ETA: And you are very welcome. The marketing of products is often very deceptive.

[mneh]

I am completely frustrated with my hair. It is babyfine and curly. As a curly, I need conditioner and product to encourage and hold the curl; but as a fine hair, it quickly goes limp with build up. I am sulfate and cone free, and I oil sparingly. My hair builds up and looks lank within a week. The only thing that helps is a baking soda rinse. My hair always looks great after a baking soda rinse, although I know many people at LHC do not like baking soda for hair and consider it damaging. I am a little concerned about using baking soda too much, because at this point I am using it once a week.
I have recently discovered that my hair is low porosity, which may have something to do with this.

How quickly does your hair build up? Am I the only freak whose hair build up product so quickly?

My hair has very low porosity, like yours, so I thought I'd answer your query too :) I do a baking soda rinse (with ACV rinse) about once a week because I think it helps my hair look less stringy after product build up. I'm a wurly so I use heavy conditioner + curl cream + gel almost every day and by the end of the week I can see my hair looking jaded from the residue of all those products, even though they're all made with natural ingredients. My hair also dislikes oily products and serums (which I use from time to time if the weather calls for it) and, when they build up, they make it look lank, stringy, and my wurls unclump.

I've been doing the baking soda rinses for over a year without any problems (although I have medium/coarse hair texture, that might be a factor). I also ACV rinse after each shampoo and find that very helpful in keeping my hair and scalp happy. In general, when my hair starts to look like lank and stringy, I do a baking soda rinse - it just resets things :)

[girlcat36]

Thanks, mneh! Glad to hear you haven't had much trouble with the baking soda. What is your BS:water ratio?

[mneh]

Thanks, mneh! Glad to hear you haven't had much trouble with the baking soda. What is your BS:water ratio?

I stir 3 level tablespoons of baking soda into 750mls of warm water. And if there is undissolved baking soda settled at the bottom of the container, after I've poured half of the dilution on my hair, I add more warm water to the container, until it's full again, and stir a bit more before pouring the dilution over my hair. I also dunk my ends in the plastic container (when it's half full) and swish them about in the rinse, to make sure they get a good cleanse. My ACV rinse is roughly 2-3 tablespoons of vinegar in 750 mls of warm water, I pour half on my hair, dunk my ends in the rinse for a bit, add more water to the container, and pour it all over my hair.

What ratio do you use?

[girlcat36]

I use approx. 2 tsp in 20 oz water.

[mneh]

I use approx. 2 tsp in 20 oz water.

*googles 20oz in mls* ;)

Hmm, I use a strong ratio, don't I?! Perhaps I needn't make it quite so strong, given that you find your ratio cleanses product build up.

[girlcat36]

Yes, I thought your ratio sounded strong....after I googled milliters! :D
The most I have ever used in 1 tbsp in 20 oz, usually when I haven't used the BS rinse in a while. Sounds like you use more product than me, so maybe your ratio is fine for your hair.

[Miss Catrina]

The only experience I've ever had with build up was when I was about 10-12 years old and Pantene (ugh) shampoo started giving me a very itchy scalp suddenly, which ceased after switching to Garnier (also ugh). But that may not even have been build-up; maybe just an acquired sensitivity/allergy.

Other than that, product use has never affected me.

[mneh]

Yes, I thought your ratio sounded strong....after I googled milliters! :D
The most I have ever used in 1 tbsp in 20 oz, usually when I haven't used the BS rinse in a while. Sounds like you use more product than me, so maybe your ratio is fine for your hair.

Hee hee - you should see how much frantic googling I do when I'm trying to follow recipes with US measurements :)

I do rather slap on the hair products, my hair takes a bit of controlling. I think I first came across that ratio of 3tbsp to 750mls ages ago, when I first tried to wear my natural wurls, it was described as a clarifying rinse, and I just stuck with it (through ignorance, frankly), it never occurred to me that as my hair improved that I should lower the amount of baking soda. I'm so glad I got to swap info with you about this :)

[ktani]

ETA: just found an article explaining my fine hair has more cuticle! http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/06/chemistry-of-your-hair-fine-hair.html

I was looking for a referenced quote for you and saw that too. I cannot remember where I learned the information, it was a long time ago.

Here is more
http://www.thestyleglossy.com/anz/feature/hair_type/index.html
"Fine hair fibers, on the other hand, arrange themselves in a parallel pattern that acts more like a funnel, so ingredients that moisturise and condition slip away rather than stick. The fix is a formula that helps those reparative ingredients grab on and stay.
1. Fine hair has up to 50 percent less protein than thicker hair, so it’s fragile and tends to fall flat."

Reparative is used loosely. It is about using lighter products. Volumizing products use polymers more and heavier ingredients less to give the hair texture. They do build-up though.

ETA: When I worked in the beauty industry years ago, and managed the "retail" outlet of a wholesale beauty supply company that sold products to licensed stylists only, barring certain products only, part of my job was to have cosmetic companies give me information on how their products worked, so that I could then explain that, with the information, to hair stylists. One company, that had excellent information at the time and was the first or among the very first to use "acid balanced" referring correctly to the average acidity of scalp sebum and the body's acid mantle, was the original Redken company. Much of the information I learned from their literature, and subsequently from their Research and Development rep is still valid today.

I have continued to research about hair care products long after those days and I had as well, before that time.

[girlcat36]

Thank you, ktani!

[ktani]

Thank you, ktani!

You are very welcome. I understand, remembering a time when I did not have the benefit of such information available to me, how confusing it all can be as a consumer.

[ktani]

Your latest signature pic looks very good to me. I just think that you need to tweak what you are doing to lessen your frustration level.

[girlcat36]

Your latest signature pic looks very good to me. I just think that you need to tweak what you are doing to lessen your frustration level.


Thank you---that was after a heavy baking soda rinse, moisturizing conditioner, then homemade flaxseed gel.

[ktani]

Thank you---that was after a heavy baking soda rinse, moisturizing conditioner, then homemade flaxseed gel.

You are very welcome.
The only problem with flax gel is that it can build-up badly. It may complicate things for you when clarifying. It contains a lot of mucilage.

Flax oil, linseed oil is resinous and harder to remove from hair than a non drying oil.

Yes, I prefer a natural choice too. However, natural choices are not always the best ones for hair care.

[girlcat36]

You are very welcome.
The only problem with flax gel is that it can build-up badly. It may complicate things for you when clarifying. It contains a lot of mucilage.

Flax oil, linseed oil is resinous and harder to remove from hair than a non drying oil.

Yes, I prefer a natural choice too. However, natural choices are not always the best ones for hair care.

Okay thanks---good to know about the flaxseed!

[mneh]

Okay thanks---good to know about the flaxseed!

That's very interesting to know about flaxseed gel - that's what I had been using on my hair until two weeks ago. I wasn't getting good results with it for a while so I went back to using Aubrey Organics B5 gel

[jojo]

Hi GirlCat :hifive: ive recently tried glycerine (tried it years back when shorter and it didnt work for me) again and it worked well. I just added a few drops, not too much or it makes my hair lank, I left this in for 5 minutes and then added a few more drops to a jug of warm water, dipped my ends and poured the rest on and again left for 5 minutes and then rinsed. My hair has more wave and it looks like it does when ive newly dyed, you know that shine? its really good. Funny how my hair loves stuff at longer lengths that it hated when shorter.

As for build up, I clarify every 2 weeks with tresemme deep clean (green writing) its excellent, I don't even need conditioner after using this as as well as clarifying it appears to moisturise as well!

[girlcat36]

Thanks, jojo! I think I need to clarify at least every two weeks like you are doing. I think I have been afraid that clarifying would be too damaging to my babyfine hair, but it seems like the build-up is worse. Clarifying is the lesser of two evils. I will try the glycerine trick in the summer. Right now the air here is too dry to let glycerine anywhere near my hair! Lucky you in the UK where it seems to be damp/humid more of the time.

[julliams]

I only have to use a coney conditioner twice in a row and I lose most of my wave. That would suggest to me that it builds up pretty quickly. I don't think I noticed build up before I knew what it was, so now I'm more aware of it and notice it right away. I clarify about once every week - fortnight depending on what I'm using. My scalp is happier and I maintain my wave pattern this way. Otherwise my hair goes straight, which is fine too, but I associate with my curly hair better.

[holothuroidea]

My hair builds up stuff like crazy! BS works well for me as a clarifying wash too, and I've been using it about once a week as well. I think the key is to dilute well and have a sufficient acid rinse. I notice that my hair is stronger after clarifying with BS.

I've been struggling with build up ever since I had to stop WO because of my stupid scalp acne. I dilute the shampoo very heavily (1 tsp in 6 oz) but I still need to use conditioner to get the tangles out and doing this every day makes my hair very limp and sad.

Is there such a thing as a conditioner that does not build up and if so where can I mine this gold? :D

Quick newbie question hijack- How do you find out if your hair is porous and what difference does it make as far as what you use?

[mneh]

Thanks, jojo! I think I need to clarify at least every two weeks like you are doing. I think I have been afraid that clarifying would be too damaging to my babyfine hair, but it seems like the build-up is worse. Clarifying is the lesser of two evils. I will try the glycerine trick in the summer. Right now the air here is too dry to let glycerine anywhere near my hair! Lucky you in the UK where it seems to be damp/humid more of the time.

I must admit that I do feel my hair benefits greatly from the weather in Ireland and the UK. We've had 80%+ humidity here in Ireland for the last couple of months and I don't think I've ever seen it go lower than 75% humidity. All that wet weather we get is great for producing green fields and happier curlies ;)




My hair builds up stuff like crazy! BS works well for me as a clarifying wash too, and I've been using it about once a week as well. I think the key is to dilute well and have a sufficient acid rinse. I notice that my hair is stronger after clarifying with BS.

I've been struggling with build up ever since I had to stop WO because of my stupid scalp acne. I dilute the shampoo very heavily (1 tsp in 6 oz) but I still need to use conditioner to get the tangles out and doing this every day makes my hair very limp and sad.

Is there such a thing as a conditioner that does not build up and if so where can I mine this gold? :D

Quick newbie question hijack- How do you find out if your hair is porous and what difference does it make as far as what you use?

Here's info on how to determine porosity http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curly-hair-care-methods/quick-easy-hair-porosity-density-tests

May I ask what your BS rinse ratio is? It's come to my attention, via this thread, that my ratio is very high.

[CurlyMopTop]

It seems like everything and anything builds up on my hair quite quickly. I think that we could almost be hair twins girlcat! My hair is also very fine and low porosity, but curly like yours. I'm still trying to figure out a routine that won't weigh my hair down, cause shedding, breakage, ...and still keep the needed moisture. :(

[holothuroidea]

*snip*
Here's info on how to determine porosity http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curly-hair-care-methods/quick-easy-hair-porosity-density-tests

May I ask what your BS rinse ratio is? It's come to my attention, via this thread, that my ratio is very high.

Thank you for the link! My hair is low porosity. They should put that test in the newbie article and give us a place to put it next to length and type. :)

I use 1tsp baking soda in 4oz of water. So basically I just scoop a (level) small spoonful into a juice cup.

[PrairieRose]

I think the ratio is 1 teaspoon to one cup of water, otherwise it may be to drying for your hair.

[mneh]

Thank you for the link! My hair is low porosity. They should put that test in the newbie article and give us a place to put it next to length and type. :)

I use 1tsp baking soda in 4oz of water. So basically I just scoop a (level) small spoonful into a juice cup.


I think the ratio is 1 teaspoon to one cup of water, otherwise it may be to drying for your hair.

Now that I've read your ratios, I feel I ought to quote the wonderful Sam Beckett, "Oh boy...".

My ratio is completely OTT, I'm going to scale down the amount of baking soda from now on.

[girlcat36]

Thanks everyone for your responses!




It seems like everything and anything builds up on my hair quite quickly. I think that we could almost be hair twins girlcat! My hair is also very fine and low porosity, but curly like yours. I'm still trying to figure out a routine that won't weigh my hair down, cause shedding, breakage, ...and still keep the needed moisture. :(

I think fine and curly hair is the most difficult hairtype, we can't use all those great curly products that we need to keep our curls formed nicely because they are too heavy!

[Lissandria]

I think fine and curly hair is the most difficult hairtype, we can't use all those great curly products that we need to keep our curls formed nicely because they are too heavy!

Im in your club ;) and I definitely second this! Curl creams and the like are just sticky and gross mostly and make my hair dull and stringy. A light Coconut Oil is my best wet-setting agent.

I clarify my hair before I Henndigo or do a gloss so it ends up being every 2-4 weeks for me. Product does build up on me within a month or so and I hate the feeling of build up. I am pretty much cone free at the moment but not sulfate free.
Protein has helped my fine hair alot though with volume, retaining moisture and stopping my curls from drooping into waves. Does your hair like protein?

[girlcat36]

Im in your club ;) and I definitely second this! Curl creams and the like are just sticky and gross mostly and make my hair dull and stringy. A light Coconut Oil is my best wet-setting agent.

I clarify my hair before I Henndigo or do a gloss so it ends up being every 2-4 weeks for me. Product does build up on me within a month or so and I hate the feeling of build up. I am pretty much cone free at the moment but not sulfate free.
Protein has helped my fine hair alot though with volume, retaining moisture and stopping my curls from drooping into waves. Does your hair like protein?

That's the one thing that I don't know. I hate buying products and messing with my hair, so I've never really got into protein treatments. Maybe I should experiment with protein. Is it better to buy a protein treatment(if they are cone free) or to make one up at home?

[Lissandria]

Hmmm. Some hair hates protein, mine likes it moderately. Yours may hate it or love it. You don't know until you try.
I am doing an Amla experiment as we speak (for the purpose of curls/protein). Protein-ey conditioners themselves and Henna/Indigo glosses mixed with a protein conditioners are what I have done with good results (always followed with an SMT/moisture treatment of course).
Some others make a protein pack with eggs, mayo, avocado, banana etc but I haven't tried these methods. When I first started Hennaing (a protein) the life was put back into my curls. They had become droopy without it. Have you seen this website? It's for curlies. :)
http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/home.htm
Alot of the suggestions they make such as leaving in alot of conditioner are clearly for curlies with much coarser and thicker hair than ours. But one of the points they make on the site somewhere is how fine hair is often over-conditioned and sometimes you feel your fine hair needs moisture, when infact, it needs protein.
Since you're having buildup/lank issues I suggested protein may help your hair look more voluminous, or may allow you to use less of the products that buildup on your hair, because with a little protein your hair may hold onto moisture better. Not sure if this is any help/the right treatment for your hair but maybe it's worth looking in to?

ETA: my hair also takes quite kindly to BS washing. I always thought I had porous hair too, but perhaps not if my hair doesn't mind BS?

[Chamy]

I have only once in my life experienced this. And i dont remember what the product was. But i remember baking soda fixed the problem.

[Mina17]

I have a similar issue: hair that is somewhat fine, low porosity, and wavy that needs a lot of product to look good, but then I have the vicious cycle of buildup and the need for frequent clarifying. I start to have buildup within a week or two. I've been worrying about the effects of such frequent clarifying also.

I've been using a sulfate clarifying shampoo. I have been thinking about trying baking soda but haven't quite dared to yet. Are there benefits to using baking soda over clarifying shampoos? Other than it's more natural?

I'm still trying to figure out a routine and experimenting with products to find something that works for me. This thread has been interesting and I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that deals with this issue!

[holothuroidea]

I have a similar issue: hair that is somewhat fine, low porosity, and wavy that needs a lot of product to look good, but then I have the vicious cycle of buildup and the need for frequent clarifying. I start to have buildup within a week or two. I've been worrying about the effects of such frequent clarifying also.

I've been using a sulfate clarifying shampoo. I have been thinking about trying baking soda but haven't quite dared to yet. Are there benefits to using baking soda over clarifying shampoos? Other than it's more natural?

I'm still trying to figure out a routine and experimenting with products to find something that works for me. This thread has been interesting and I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that deals with this issue!

It's a good alternative for people who are sensitive to sulfates and fragrances, and its waaaaay cheaper. :)

Some people's hair responds well to baking soda and others not, you don't loose anything by trying though.

[ktani]

Are there benefits to using baking soda over clarifying shampoos? Other than it's more natural?


Four advantages

1. It can be easier to do provided you fully dissolve it in water and use the right mix ETA so that it is not drying - and follow it immediately with an acidic rinse like diluted vinegar instead of conditioner - which on average has a higher pH.

2. It is more available.

3. It is cheaper.

4. Many so called clarifying shampoos contain build-up ingredients too.

ETA: 2 The fully dissolving prevents the baking soda from being abrasive. It can damage cuticles otherwise.

[Mina17]

So I went ahead and gave the baking soda a try this morning as my hair needed clarifying. I dissolved 2 tsp in 20 oz of water followed up by an ACV rinse, then conditioned with Tresemme Naturals. I'm actually really pleased with the results! My hair is less dry and frizzy with this than it has been with my clarifying shampoo. I have been using Quantum Clarifying Shampoo which is also chelating, so that might be the difference. My well water is not really hard but it does have some iron in it, which is why I chose that shampoo. I wonder if the baking soda and acv rinses will be enough to take care of both issues or if I'll still need to use the chelating shampoo every now and then.

[CurlyMopTop]

I think fine and curly hair is the most difficult hairtype, we can't use all those great curly products that we need to keep our curls formed nicely because they are too heavy!


I've found that I can use some of them, but it has to be very, very sparingly, and looks the best on freshly clarified hair (for 1 day use only). Who wants to clarify every time they wash though, and I've found that the coatings in most shampoos and conditioners (natural or not) or oils over a very short period of time have the same effect on my hair. I've found that diluting them seems to help. Now, the only time I use oil is to mix a little in with one of my shampoos (any of the ones from the oil shampoo thread) after I clarify which is once or twice a week. This seems to help my hair not get overmoisturized so easily, and cuts down on the shedding. I agree 100% with you on having the most difficult hair type. Trying to keep the right protein/moisture balance, curls defined when wearing hair down without being weighed down or frizzy, and avoiding increased shedding or breakage seems to be one of the biggest challenges I've ever faced! Who knew proper hair care could be so darned complicated. :D I still don't have it figured out, so, the quest continues.;)

[girlcat36]

Hmmm. Some hair hates protein, mine likes it moderately. Yours may hate it or love it. You don't know until you try.
I am doing an Amla experiment as we speak (for the purpose of curls/protein). Protein-ey conditioners themselves and Henna/Indigo glosses mixed with a protein conditioners are what I have done with good results (always followed with an SMT/moisture treatment of course).
Some others make a protein pack with eggs, mayo, avocado, banana etc but I haven't tried these methods. When I first started Hennaing (a protein) the life was put back into my curls. They had become droopy without it. Have you seen this website? It's for curlies. :)
http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/home.htm
Alot of the suggestions they make such as leaving in alot of conditioner are clearly for curlies with much coarser and thicker hair than ours. But one of the points they make on the site somewhere is how fine hair is often over-conditioned and sometimes you feel your fine hair needs moisture, when infact, it needs protein.
Since you're having buildup/lank issues I suggested protein may help your hair look more voluminous, or may allow you to use less of the products that buildup on your hair, because with a little protein your hair may hold onto moisture better. Not sure if this is any help/the right treatment for your hair but maybe it's worth looking in to?

ETA: my hair also takes quite kindly to BS washing. I always thought I had porous hair too, but perhaps not if my hair doesn't mind BS?

Yes, I've been to that website, but missed the protein info. I guess I just always assumed that my hair hated protein because so many people say that theirs does.

So I bought a protein treatment(I think) http://www.sallybeauty.com/hair-repair-therapy/ION22,default,pd.html?cgid=Hair03.

I had to spend a lot of time going through products at the store, reading ingredients because the labels did not say PROTEIN on them. It would have been a lot easier if the word PROTEIN was on the front label. I wasn't even sure what words to look for that meant protein in the ingredients.

I mixed the Ion treatment with one egg and applied it to my hair for an hour. After that, I applied Biloage Conditioning Balm, mixed with a good dose of honey, for another hour.

My hair is still drying, so I'm not sure if it is any better. It is quite soft--not crunchy at all---does this mean my hair likes protein?

As far as baking soda goes, I find it milder to my hair than sulfate shampoos. I guess it all depends on your dilutation and your hair's porosity.

[racrane]

Well, I have fine wavy hair. My hair loves protein right now and it looks very nice since I started protein treatments. I, too, have the problem of too much icky buildup in my hair and I hate it. I keep it up so much now though, that the need for gel to define my curls is lessened.

But definitely explore some protein options. :)

[bumblebums]

Hmmm. Some hair hates protein, mine likes it moderately. Yours may hate it or love it. You don't know until you try.
I am doing an Amla experiment as we speak (for the purpose of curls/protein). Protein-ey conditioners themselves and Henna/Indigo glosses mixed with a protein conditioners are what I have done with good results (always followed with an SMT/moisture treatment of course).
Some others make a protein pack with eggs, mayo, avocado, banana etc but I haven't tried these methods. When I first started Hennaing (a protein) the life was put back into my curls. They had become droopy without it. Have you seen this website? It's for curlies. :)
http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/home.htm
Alot of the suggestions they make such as leaving in alot of conditioner are clearly for curlies with much coarser and thicker hair than ours. But one of the points they make on the site somewhere is how fine hair is often over-conditioned and sometimes you feel your fine hair needs moisture, when infact, it needs protein.
Since you're having buildup/lank issues I suggested protein may help your hair look more voluminous, or may allow you to use less of the products that buildup on your hair, because with a little protein your hair may hold onto moisture better. Not sure if this is any help/the right treatment for your hair but maybe it's worth looking in to?

ETA: my hair also takes quite kindly to BS washing. I always thought I had porous hair too, but perhaps not if my hair doesn't mind BS?

All good points, though re: avocado masks, mine was an utter disaster. It is very difficult to get the mixture not to have any chunks in it, and they stuck in the hair so I ended up having to CO. My hair does love egg yolks though--every now and then.

Girlcat, did I miss it or did you not mention how often you wash? To me, clarifying once a week sounds reasonable if you wash daily. I CO about every 4 days and clarify with a BS wash & lemon juice rinse once every two weeks or so.

My BS to water ratio is 1 teaspoon for 2 cups of water. It's plenty strong, but then the water is not hard at all where I live so I get plenty of slip.

[girlcat36]

Bumblebums---I wash two to three times a week.

My protein and moisturizing treatment have left my hair much dryer than I would have thought, and a little flyaway. I guess I'll have to do another moisturizing treatment tomorrow. Might play around with an SMT.

[Lissandria]

Girlcat36 sorry to hear your hair is dry and flyaway after a treatment. Hopefully a moisture treatment will help. FYI the following ingredients are protein:
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed casein
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed collagen
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed hair keratin
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed keratin
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed rice protein
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed silk
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed soy protein
Cocodimonium hydroxyproply hydrolyzed wheat protein
Cocdoimonium hydroxyproply silk amino acids
Cocoyl hydrolyzed collagen
Cocoyl Hydrolyzed keratin
Hydrolyzed keratin
Hydrolyzed oat flour
Hydrolyzed silk
Hydrolyzed silk protein
Hydrolyzed soy protein
Hydrolyzed wheat protein
Keratin
Potassium cocoyl hydrolyzed collagen
TEA-cocoyl hydrolyzed collagen
TEA-cocoyl hydrolyzed soy protein
Anything that is "strengthening", "reconstructing" is usually protein heavy. Anything hydrolyzed or with plant extracts too. I agree with you how confusing it is as a consumer to understand what products do. Conditioners especially would be so much easier if they were all just labelled either "moisture", "protein" or "clarifying". Instead they throw so many confusing terms in there. Hope that helps :)
ETA: not all proteins are created equal. If protein does help you/be what your hair needs it may be worth experimenting to find out which one your hair likes.

[girlcat36]

Great list! Thank you, Lissandria.
I have an SMT on my head right now. Hope it does some good!

[CurlyMopTop]

Thank you Lissandria for putting that list together! I agree 100% with your edit. Not all proteins are created equal. Some hair does great with some, but hates others.

[ktani]

Here is more on all of the above, http://www.curlynikki.com/2009/01/proteins-humectants-and-conesoh-my.html

ETA: There is a second list on humectants and information on humidity too.

ETA: 2 Bio on the author, http://www.curlynikki.com/2010/08/biography.html