Which is more damaging - washing or constant scratching?

[cxdd]

Hi everyone,

First post! :)

So, I have very fine and brittle, Scandinavian hair which is also dry, but it does get oily at the roots quickly. My hairdresser told me I need to stretch washes (I used to wash it every other day).

I've been using flour as a dry shampoo, and it works pretty well. Now I only need to wet wash once a week. Only problem is, it makes my scalp itch and I worry that the scratching at my scalp does more damage than the wet washes originally did. Also, when applying the dry shampoo I have to rub it in pretty vigorously for it to have effect and to get rid of excess powder.

Does anyone have any good input on wet handling vs mechanical damage? Should I keep on avoiding wet washing even though it requires me to "rub" my hair more and sometimes makes me scratch my scalp?

Thanks :)

[jaine]

I would just wash it if it were me. Itchy skin is a sign of skin irritation for me - I wouldn't want to keep irritants on my skin any longer than necessary (and I'd rather avoid them completely).

[BlazingHeart]

I wonder if your skin does not like flour on it. Mine does not, and it would make me quite itchy. You might try using cornstarch instead, it is often less irritating.

[cxdd]

Thanks, I'll try the cornstarch instead!

[Madora]

Shampoo your hair gently. Avoid friction as much as possible..that is, no mooshing all the hair on top of the head like a mop.

Detangle your hair before you shampoo. To avoid tangling (to an extent) shampoo with your fingerpads from crown down, then from front to back.

You might try diluting your shampoo and your conditioner as well.

Finish with a cold rinse (to close the cuticles which have been opened by warm water).

Air dry your hair and avoid blow fryers.

If your scalp continues to itch, maybe the products you are using on it need to be changed.



ETA: Dry methods can be harmful to your hair because you need to do more shampooing to get them out.

[Orangerthanred]

Washing is less damaging the scratching all the time, I think. You could just wash your scalp, but not your whole head of hair.

Or you could try using a different cleaning method. Baking soda? Rinses? Cowashing?

If the itching is really a problem you should go to a doctor.

[McFearless]

Is your skin itchy from contact with the powder or has it always been this way?

[Amber_Maiden]

Wash it if your scratching! Stretching washes is something you have to ease into!

[haibane]

Oily and itchy can be a sign of increased fungal growth, especially if you find white "gunk" when you scratch. Too much fungus on the scalp can hamper hair growth or even make you shed more.

[Chiara]

I'd try and find a really gentle shampoo, and then wash it as you wish. You can see the shampoo I use in my sig.

Since I've started using a very gentle shampoo, I find that I can wash my hair much more frequently without the bad effects on my hairs condition (the proof- I now have a lot of 1 inch hairs growing out around my face).

Some people also find it works just to dilute the shampoo that they normally use.

[summerjade]

I would wash it as often as needed with shampoo. Itching is not a good sign and it is better to wash than to itch is my opinion.

[Mymagicfairy]

How about shampoo bars that are sulfate free??
I use them and love the results

[cheetahfast]

Do you scalp massage at all? With the pads of your fingers only---no scratching? I find a good daily scalp massage routine lets my wait an extra day before washing, if I want. I'm not trying to stretch too much, I was 2 times a week.

Still the itching disappeared when I started to do the massages. Now it doesn't itch at all.

[vanillabones]

ETA: Dry methods can be harmful to your hair because you need to do more shampooing to get them out.


This! And I know this from EXPERIENCE. I love dry shampoos but it takes a lot more vigorous of a wash to then wash your hair after stretching the washes just to get the dry shampoo off of your head. I'm much happier washing every other day than stretching to three days with dry shampoo and my hair feeling like it is going to break off in the shower. I wash with a gentle shampoo and a heavy coney condish and clarify when needed.

[jacqueline101]

I'd say try not using flour try corn starch if you still itch wash with a gentle shampoo and condish if you're still itching go to the doctor you could have caused a scalp irritation maybe a fungus.

[Modarunner]

I have found that when extending the amount of time between washings that scritching your scalp with a fine tooth comb is very beneficial. I normally go a week between washings and by the end of the week my scalp is terribly itchy and scratching makes it worse, as well as being very bad for your scalp. I've been scritching everyday to get rid of build up and today it's been over a week and my scalp isn't itchy at all. So I would definitely say try scritching daily and see if that doesn't help.

[tinywife]

I know this isn't really what you asked, but I had a horribly itchy scalp too. I figured the pH level was off and tried an ACV rinse, but that was too harsh; what worked perfectly was a lemon rinse, just a tablespoon of lemon juice to a quart of water. It worked really well because several months later, the itchies still aren't back.

[Madora]

I know this isn't really what you asked, but I had a horribly itchy scalp too. I figured the pH level was off and tried an ACV rinse, but that was too harsh; what worked perfectly was a lemon rinse, just a tablespoon of lemon juice to a quart of water. It worked really well because several months later, the itchies still aren't back.

Excellent idea, Tinywife!

[Annalouise]

Oily and itchy can be a sign of increased fungal growth, especially if you find white "gunk" when you scratch. Too much fungus on the scalp can hamper hair growth or even make you shed more.


I have fine thin hair as well and my scalp itches on the second day after washing it and each progressive day that I don't wash it.
It only doesn't itch the day I wash it.

How does one get rid of fungus if that is part of the problem?

[spidermom]

I'd just wet-wash it. Use a little conditioner on the length and dilute the shampoo in some warm water. I saved an empty shampoo bottle and mix my solution in it, then squirt all over my scalp.

[haibane]

I have fine thin hair as well and my scalp itches on the second day after washing it and each progressive day that I don't wash it.
It only doesn't itch the day I wash it.

How does one get rid of fungus if that is part of the problem?

There is no "getting rid of it" per se, as everyone always have micro-organisms including fungus on the skin and scalp (unless you sterilize with alcohol or something, but even then it's only temporary.) But the idea is to keep it under control you so don't get fungus overgrowth which can cause issues.

Stretchiung washes and not washing often enough can both cause fungus growth, so there's no easy answer. But if you've been trying to stretch washes, try going back to washing more often and see if that helps. Schampoo kills off micro-organisms, especially SLS. CO less so, and with SLS-free shampoos it likely varies widely.

If normal washing doesn't take care of it, maybe look in the Seborrheic Dermatitis Support thread:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045
Seborrheic Dermatitis is a specific type of fungus growth where the skin gets inflamed, but similar methods should work for most fungus growth. Downside is some of them are pretty harsh on the hair.

The milder treatments include oils (neem, tea tree, castor..) and herbs (forget which ones) and there are also milder anti-dandruff/anti-fungal shampoos, but some are very harsh.

[Annalouise]

There is no "getting rid of it" per se, as everyone always have micro-organisms including fungus on the skin and scalp (unless you sterilize with alcohol or something, but even then it's only temporary.) But the idea is to keep it under control you so don't get fungus overgrowth which can cause issues.

Stretchiung washes and not washing often enough can both cause fungus growth, so there's no easy answer. But if you've been trying to stretch washes, try going back to washing more often and see if that helps. Schampoo kills off micro-organisms, especially SLS. CO less so, and with SLS-free shampoos it likely varies widely.

If normal washing doesn't take care of it, maybe look in the Seborrheic Dermatitis Support thread:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045
Seborrheic Dermatitis is a specific type of fungus growth where the skin gets inflamed, but similar methods should work for most fungus growth. Downside is some of them are pretty harsh on the hair.

The milder treatments include oils (neem, tea tree, castor..) and herbs (forget which ones) and there are also milder anti-dandruff/anti-fungal shampoos, but some are very harsh.

Thanks Haibane:) That is very helpful.

I noticed that my scalp itchiness got worse when I started using Aveda Rosemary Mint shampoo. It contains sodium coco-sulphate.
Actually the first two ingredients are the rosemary and mint extracts. Anyways, I noticed my scalp got more smelly after using this shampoo when I would sweat. So much so that when I went to the hot springs then my head would STINK!:p And my husband told me not to use the shampoo anymore.

I think this shampoo is not strong enough or it is encouraging fungus. I was thinking of switching to a shampoo that is stronger and has no herbal extracts in it.

My feeling is that the herbal extracts go rancid and this is not good for the scalp. Hmmm....

I do not have the answer but I am going to try a SLS shampoo next.

Thanks again for your help.

[heidi w.]

In my opinion, I would imagine the scratching would be worse than watching because you risk nicking the skin and it forming a kind of pustule even.

I know the kind of hair you're describing. This is a difficult hair type to work with, and sometimes to grow longer.

You claim you use flour as your method for dry washing. I have no knowledge of shampoo powder or dry washing methods. But back in the day, that was how people washed their hair most of the time as they didn't yet have showers and baths, really.

But flour? If it's causing you to itch, you might be allergic to it even, possibly. The dry flour is merely absorbing the sebum, not washing your hair and skin clean, necessarily. It's kind of like piling more stuff on top of that sebum, it seems to me.

It seems to me that you can learn to wash your hair a little less frequently than daily, with a diluted shampoo, and learn to perhaps apply conditioner to the length only.

I have long felt that a lot of people are doing some pretty wacky stuff as it comes to hair cleaning. It took me a long time to accept that Conditioner Only washing really is helpful to some people, especially those with a lot of body or curl to their hair. The more curly, the more conditioner you likely need comparatively.

I am an advocate of just keep it simple. Simple means it's generally somewhat economical, less fuss and time consumed over one's hair, and for me, presents the most likely condition to have lovely yet longer tresses.

I can't imagine your hairdresser recommending washing with flour, of all things. I'm sure it works, but it may not precisely be working as you imagine. It might LOOK ok, but it might not be truly clean.

Hair washing is a misnomer in my opinion as a term. The reason for washing our hair is a hygienic practice so that the scalp skin is cleansed somewhat regularly so that we don't develop infections. Which CAN happen, and has happened to me because I have Seborrheic Dermatitus, a particularly nasty form of Dandruff. It seems to me you may be able to work on eventually washing your hair about every third or fourth day with diluted shampoo, perhaps; and in this way, actually have a clean scalp skin that may well not itch. If your scalp itches a lot, it's time to investigate, perhaps with a dermatologist looking at things, whether you have dandruff, psoriasis, exzema, Seborrheic Dermatitus (which can occur in degrees. I know a few people that have it, but nowhere near as bad as I do.).

Consider finding a wet shampoo that has no Sodium Laurel or Laureth Sulfate in it. No sulfates. And when you wash, don't pile your hair and swirl around. Allow it to hang down and rub the scalp skin between the hair. You can even divide the back into two sections that you draw forward. That kind of thing. And yes, detangle the hair before stepping in the shower to help minimize tangles. (Detangle from the bottom up. Learning now little techniques will serve you well on your journey to attractive yet longer hair.)

I wish you the best on your journey.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Thanks Haibane:) That is very helpful.

I noticed that my scalp itchiness got worse when I started using Aveda Rosemary Mint shampoo. It contains sodium coco-sulphate.
Actually the first two ingredients are the rosemary and mint extracts. Anyways, I noticed my scalp got more smelly after using this shampoo when I would sweat. So much so that when I went to the hot springs then my head would STINK!:p And my husband told me not to use the shampoo anymore.

I think this shampoo is not strong enough or it is encouraging fungus. I was thinking of switching to a shampoo that is stronger and has no herbal extracts in it.

My feeling is that the herbal extracts go rancid and this is not good for the scalp. Hmmm....

I do not have the answer but I am going to try a SLS shampoo next.

Thanks again for your help.

I could be wrong, but more than likely it wasn't the herbal extracts in the shampoo. It may have been the sulphates. But yes, some shampoos stink.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

All of all people's skin has a degree of sebum on it to maintain the health of the skin. Scalp skin has more than say, your arm, though. Sebum exists to coat the scalp skin and maintain the pH balance. In the mix are a set of bacteria that is actually good for the skin, but can go into hyperdrive if, perhaps, we wait too long between hair washes, and if uber long, can contribute to a slight increase in hair shedding even.

The point of washing the hair is to remove this sebum which has caught dirt, dead skin cells, and built as a layer on the head's skin. Washing is like bathing. We do it to keep us in relatively good health. And if we forego it, after a time, we will begin to become a bit more odifierous by today's standards.

heidi w.

[ktani]

Hi everyone,

First post! :)

So, I have very fine and brittle, Scandinavian hair which is also dry, but it does get oily at the roots quickly. My hairdresser told me I need to stretch washes (I used to wash it every other day).

I've been using flour as a dry shampoo, and it works pretty well. Now I only need to wet wash once a week. Only problem is, it makes my scalp itch and I worry that the scratching at my scalp does more damage than the wet washes originally did. Also, when applying the dry shampoo I have to rub it in pretty vigorously for it to have effect and to get rid of excess powder.

Does anyone have any good input on wet handling vs mechanical damage? Should I keep on avoiding wet washing even though it requires me to "rub" my hair more and sometimes makes me scratch my scalp?

Thanks :)

There are more ways to avoid damage from washing than there is from scratching. Scratching ones scalp also involves scratching one's hair. Doing that with sharp fingernails for example can abrade hair cuticles.

[Lightningfury]

Do you scalp massage at all? With the pads of your fingers only---no scratching? I find a good daily scalp massage routine lets my wait an extra day before washing, if I want. I'm not trying to stretch too much, I was 2 times a week.

Still the itching disappeared when I started to do the massages. Now it doesn't itch at all.


likewise, then again I don't dry shampoo either. I'm easing into CO washes right now. This has helped with the dryness and now I don't dread wash days cause their going to dry my hair out so much anymore. But I had also already eased into 1-2 washes a week.

[cxdd]

Thanks for all the replies! :)

Actually, the last few days I haven't had any itching. Maybe my skin got used to it, or I learned to apply the powder without getting so much excess. But it sounds like maybe dry shampooing isn't such a good idea anyway because of risk of fungus, etc?

Too bad, because winter is coming and it gets very cold here. I was hoping I could avoid getting my hair wet too often. :(

[Madora]

Thanks for all the replies! :)

Actually, the last few days I haven't had any itching. Maybe my skin got used to it, or I learned to apply the powder without getting so much excess. But it sounds like maybe dry shampooing isn't such a good idea anyway because of risk of fungus, etc?

Too bad, because winter is coming and it gets very cold here. I was hoping I could avoid getting my hair wet too often. :(

Dry shampooing cleans by friction, which is something you don't want to do unless absolutely necessary. Getting the stuff out of your hair takes more time, and manipulating your hair, than it would if you were just shampooing. Less time spent manipulating your hair means less occasion for breakage.

[cxdd]

Dry shampooing cleans by friction, which is something you don't want to do unless absolutely necessary. Getting the stuff out of your hair takes more time, and manipulating your hair, than it would if you were just shampooing. Less time spent manipulating your hair means less occasion for breakage.

I see... Maybe I need to reconsider some of the stuff I have been taught. I was told that water is really damaging to hair, more so than shampoo.

I have been trying to stretch washes without using any dry shampoo, but by the second day it was always very greasy and it never got better. :(

[Madora]

I see... Maybe I need to reconsider some of the stuff I have been taught. I was told that water is really damaging to hair, more so than shampoo.

I have been trying to stretch washes without using any dry shampoo, but by the second day it was always very greasy and it never got better. :(

Water can be damaging to your hair if you shampoo every day. The water (over time) will strip your hair of its natural oil, unless you do something to restore what has been taken away. Your hair will end up looking like straw with too much shampooing (per Dr. George Michael, famed "Czar of Long Hair").

[Kelikea]

Have you tried a dding a bit of coconut oil to diluted shampoo? This helps out my scalp so much, I used to battle the wash/scratch issue, but the oils has calmed my itchies.

[cxdd]

I can't imagine your hairdresser recommending washing with flour, of all things. I'm sure it works, but it may not precisely be working as you imagine. It might LOOK ok, but it might not be truly clean
No, you're right, she didn't. She recommended an expensive aerosol-driven dry shampoo whose scent made me nauseaious. I used up the bottle within two weeks and after that I decided that I wanted something cheaper, less smelly and more eco-friendly. I think I read about using flour here on the LHC.


Consider finding a wet shampoo that has no Sodium Laurel or Laureth Sulfate in it. No sulfates. And when you wash, don't pile your hair and swirl around. Allow it to hang down and rub the scalp skin between the hair. You can even divide the back into two sections that you draw forward. That kind of thing. And yes, detangle the hair before stepping in the shower to help minimize tangles. (Detangle from the bottom up. Learning now little techniques will serve you well on your journey to attractive yet longer hair.)

I wish you the best on your journey.

heidi w.
Thanks! I'll try all those things! :)

[cxdd]

Looks like a lot of people are recommending diluting my shampoo. I'll try doing that instead.

[cxdd]

Looks like a lot of people are recommending diluting my shampoo rather than stretching washes. I'll try that the next time I wash.

[cxdd]

I can't imagine your hairdresser recommending washing with flour, of all things. I'm sure it works, but it may not precisely be working as you imagine. It might LOOK ok, but it might not be truly clean
No, you're right, she didn't. She recommended an expensive aerosol-driven dry shampoo whose scent made me nauseaious. I used up the bottle within two weeks and after that I decided that I wanted something cheaper, less smelly and more eco-friendly. I think I read about using flour here on the LHC.


Consider finding a wet shampoo that has no Sodium Laurel or Laureth Sulfate in it. No sulfates. And when you wash, don't pile your hair and swirl around. Allow it to hang down and rub the scalp skin between the hair. You can even divide the back into two sections that you draw forward. That kind of thing. And yes, detangle the hair before stepping in the shower to help minimize tangles. (Detangle from the bottom up. Learning now little techniques will serve you well on your journey to attractive yet longer hair.)

I wish you the best on your journey.

heidi w.
Thanks! I'll try all those things! :)