Do you consider a hairstyle a statement of race, religion or politics?

[ktani]

or do you see one as dated?

Without rehashing recent events, I am curious.

I remember when an afro, then undefined as a hairstyle was a political statement. Today it has connotations of disco for some and to others it is just a way of wearing hair.

Shaving one's head if you were male, not that long ago meant "skinhead" and racism. Now it is just shaving one's head.

The Mullet. It has been associated with racism and trailerparks. I see nothing wrong with trailerparks and everything wrong with racism.

I knew women who were gay that believed that keeping their hair short was a political statement about their sexual preference. To the uninitiated it was just short hair.

Without getting into delicate subjects, how is any hairstyle perceived by you?

[Madora]

Personally, the health of the hair appeals to me the most. Frankly, I loathe the stringy, "messy" look that seems to popular among some stars.

I don't consider hair as a statement of race, religion or anything else. Everyone is entitled to wear (or not) their hair as they please.

[DancingQueen]

I don't really think about it. I do know the references, but I don't think nazi because I see a shaved head or disco fever because I se an afro. I mostly wiew hairstyles and hair in general as a reflection of personality (in my case: Big, sexy and unpredictable! :D )

[ktani]

I just see hairstyles as hairstyles too and I am old enough to remember when some of them were viewed differently.

I realize that some hairstyles require a specific hair type but that goes for any style, less so today because of advances in straightening chemically and straight irons for some people, and better curly cutting techniques for others.

I was never a fan of "Grunge". I am not even sure of what that was exactly but what Madora described brings back memories.

I can get my hair to look stringy and unkempt. It used to be a battle for me to avoid that, lol.

[PlainLight]

Well, I agree.

Some hairstyles might be part of a certain culture, and some just come more naturally to one race than another. Some African ladies' hair with their tiny, beautiful beaded braids just amazes me. And long, straight black hair with flowers makes me think Filipina. :)

Some religions and religious groups do require their members to have a certain hairstyle. Think of the tonsure that monks used to wear in the Catholic tradition, or the FLDS ladies we heard so much about a few years ago.

I think politics isn't so much a factor anymore, but I read that it used to be that women cutting their hair short and wearing pants was a feminist statement and so on.

One thing I always find funny is that even in a group like mine where we're all expected to have long hair and wear it in a bun, girls still find ways to express ourselves with our hairstyles. Some have parts in the middle, some on the side, some pull all their hair across their forehead in a big "swoosh," some pull it all back tight, and some let it puff in the front.

Anyway no matter what your race, religion or political stance is, I think it's easy to see that womens' hair is our glory. :queen:

[ktani]

I like to see healthy shiny hair on anyone. I have seen some gorgeous braids on all hair types and long, long flowing hair worn loose that reminds me of what I perceived as what was worn in the South Pacific islands from TV ads and old movies, when I was a child. The hair in the ads was not straight, more wavy but thick and shiny.

I have seen some incredibly stunning straight hair too.

[pepperminttea]

I suppose long hair could be seen as hippy-ish and out of fashion, but to be honest, I don't pay fashion enough heed to let it bother me. I enjoy my hair, what fashion says about that (or anything else) isn't really all that important to me. As for religion, I'm an atheist, but if people think I'm a religious fanatic, well, that works to stop annoying people talking to me. :p

[Maraz]

Hair, like anything, can be used as a political statement. But it rarely is anymore, as far as I can tell, although some people still look at a particular hairstyle, maybe one they remember as having been used to make a political statement, and then ignorantly assume the current wearer is doing so is making that statement. Same with associations of race or religion. People like to categorize others, and it's very easy to make incorrect assumptions about the motivations of someone you don't even know.

As others have alluded to on this forum before:

One thing long hair will always say about the wearer is that the wearer does not follow every fashion trend that Hollywood churns out. Unless, of course, you're using extensions to 'correct' the shortness of your latest trendy cut!

[ktani]

I have seen more women celebrities recently with long, less layered hair than before (Angelina Jolie and Demi Moore).

I knew a woman who looked stunning with a center part, when few I know did (it can be a tricky look to wear) but refused to wear her hair that way at one point, post hippie days because to her the look was dated and was a hippie look.

[sweet*things]

Hairstyle can be a statement, but not necessarily. I'd need to see the person's whole presentation (clothing, demeanor, etc.) before deciding.

[ScorpioMouse]

I don't know about a statement - mine's a celebration! I can grow it as long as I want, hack it as short as I care to, and no one can stop me. It wasn't always like that for me, so I enjoy it more than some do, I think.

I also have a specific type of hair that connects me to my heritage - my family on my mother's side was Oglala Sioux, and Crazy Horse (a famous distant relative of ours) had the same hair I do! So when I get frustrated with it - blonette, tends to be limp, won't hold a curl but has kinks in odd places - I just remember where I got it, and am comforted. It's like a connection to the past, which to me is more important than whatever the media's currently telling me to look like. (Same goes for my round face.)

[ktani]

I love to look at pictures of Native Americans today and from the past with long flowing hair, male and female. Somehow, I relate to it, with no heritage or connection ETA to it of my own.

I hated it when I saw pictures of Native Americans from the past with shorn hair, that had been forced on them or that was worn to "fit in". It went with a loss of their heritage that was taken away.

Now I see it as preference because now and in the recent past it is preference. Preference is important to me, freedom to be ones's self.

[Amber_Maiden]

No, I think that's really getting lost- hairstyles of statements of religion, race, politics. Because everyone just blends in now. Its not so much how someone wears their hair anymore, but of they are a good person underneath it.

[Amber_Maiden]

I love to look at pictures of Native Americans today and from the past with long flowing hair, male and female. Somehow, I relate to it, with no heritage or connection ETA to it of my own.

I hated it when I saw pictures of Native Americans from the past with shorn hair, that had been forced on them or that was worn to "fit in". It went with a loss of their heritage that was taken away.

Now I see it as preference because now and in the recent past it is preference. Preference is important to me, freedom to be ones's self.

I'm part native, and have many Mohawk and Cree friends. Some wear their hair long, others don't. I've seen men with long hair, and men with short hair. It's just like every other culture now, where I'm from at least.

[ktani]

I'm part native, and have many Mohawk and Cree friends. Some wear their hair long, others don't. I've seen men with long hair, and men with short hair. It's just like every other culture now, where I'm from at least.

I agree that in many or most cultures today there is freedom of choice regarding hairstyles.

Instant communication worldwide has allowed people to see what is going on in cultures very different to their own on how people look.

The reason I started this thread was to get opinions from all ages and perspectives because not many of us here are old enough to have a historical reference on the subject of hair from a personal viewpoint.

One anecdote:
Waaay back during the time of birth of the afro, I watched a TV interview with singer/actress Eartha Kitt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eartha_Kitt), who supported the idea of wearing one but when she tried to, she hated it. She did not know what to do with it. It was foreign to her. She had the resources to have one shaped for her but it was so new, I do not think any hairstylists then had a clue what to do with one at first.

[pretty wings]

Yes, I think it can be. People cut, grow, or cover their hair for many reasons. I don't see what's wrong with being identifiable in such a manner if that was what the wearer intended. People do it with their clothes why not their hair. I don't mean this in a hateful why as I see beauty in people's differences. The problem is that once something becomes identifiable then it can be stereotyped and misunderstandings can arise out of that.
I do agree with an above commenter that this is sorta being lost because people feel less inclined to wear the more traditional styles of whatever the given group is for them be it race, religion, sexuality, political view, etc.

[evb]

Hairstyle can be a statement, but not necessarily. I'd need to see the person's whole presentation (clothing, demeanor, etc.) before deciding.


I think this is more accurate of how I see things. Fact is what we wear and how we present ourselves says something. We might not know it says something but it does. There was a book called The Language of Clothes by Allison Lurie I believe that discussed this... Also things are very cyclic and a lot of people do not realize that our imaginations have been captured by a certain thing just that they like it.

Example {an old one} I grew up in a college town during the 80s... we had our preppies and jocks and dead head patchouli wearing sorts as well as the new wave or punk groups~ you could always tell which group somebody primarily identified with due to their clothing and grooming choices. In the mid 90's I was back visiting family and I walked into a very popular college hang out pizzeria/bar and every single male had a goatee of some sort on his face from the landing strip to the full fledged thing going on. This was new! different! I hadn't seen this proliferation of facial hair a decade earlier or in the big city I was living in. Nor, I might add, do I see it much today. I asked a male friend and a female friend both what was it that started this trend and both looked confused... they just liked it. :cool: I have no clue what tv or movie or music thing started it but I know in my heart of heart that something sparked this look.

Long hair to me is very romantic and feminine. I apologize to all the long haired men out there it is just how I feel. I think we had the LOTR, now the Martin series and several historical shows such as the tudors between that fuel has captured the imagination for the non religious or non SCA crowd.

I think that is true for any style. My daughter and her 'scene' hair which she googles before every cut looking for the right scene it can't be such and such scene but blah blah scene hair. She says I like the style but if she thought scene was for losers I doubt she would be spending hours looking for the perfect scene hair cut/look to recreate. She hates beiber hair but I know guys who have cut their hair like that cus you know they like beiber {sp?} She spent hours with me at the store telling me that this plaid was not scene and that plaid was scene and these pants were or were not scent and this shade of blue was scene but that one was not so the look is well defined in her mind.

The question then becomes why do you like a fro classic or a bob... why does it appeal to you because in all honesty hair of various lengths and or textures can look good with all face shapes just depending upon how you work it. Healthy hair is beautiful and if somebody with hair to their ankles went through chemo and had some healthy fuzz a year later I would not say oh you are ugly because.... I am sure they will look wonderful regardless :) So I do not presume however to think somebody is a racist or a religious zealot or what not depending upon a style... I do however think it can be a reflection of what sparks their interest. Seriously are we spending time here and working on figuring out how to care for our hair to make it fabulous and investing years on growing because it means nothing?


I apologize if I offended anybody it was not my intent to do so... for the sake of post length I fell back on some cliches aka dead head patchouli wearing sort :P

[pretty wings]

I do want to add that it seems that it is more people's perception of a given hairstyle then a wearer's intent these days. Like with afros for example. Back in the day it was very much a political statement, now not so much if at all for most who wear them. I mean, for most with that hair type that's what their hair looks like without having manipulating it in someway. It just grows up and out.
Afros in more recent years are perceived as militant or unkept. But this is changing as more people wear their hair as it grows out of their heads whether in a fro or puff or other style esp. to more formal setting such as work.

[RitaPG]

It can be, but doesn'r necessarily have to.
For me, it's not. And for most people around here it isn't one either. The few times I've seen a hairstyle as a statement (usually religion or politics) their clothing follows the same style.

[ktani]

It can be, but doesn'r necessarily have to.
For me, it's not. And for most people around here it isn't one either. The few times I've seen a hairstyle as a statement (usually religion or politics) their clothing follows the same style.

I agree. Sometimes it is also a fashion statement preference as with the Goth look which is more about colour than a specific hairstyle. Forgive me if that is not the proper way to describe it. I know little about Goth details in terms of ideas behind it.

[RitaPG]

I agree. Sometimes it is also a fashion statement preference as with the Goth look which is more about colour than a specific hairstyle. Forgive me if that is not the proper way to describe it. I know little about Goth details in terms of ideas behind it.
I was thinking of our punk and anarchist kids with their green mohawks and leather jackets and boots full of spikes :p But yeah, gothics (in all their ramifications) also have very characteristic hairstyle and dress codes.

[ktani]

I know someone who rocks a bob. Her hair is naturally straight and she wears it with bangs. It suits her features beautifully and makes her look exotic.

No offence to anyone here but she has told me she prefers to go to Chinese hairstylists because they are the only ones who can cut her hair well. I realize not all Asians have straight hair. So does she but that has been her experience.

[ericthegreat]

No, no, and no. :rolleyes:

Hair is just a collection of dead protein, lipids, some water and carbohydrates. That's all it is.

You can easily cut your hair into a completely different haircut. You can color it and bleach it to a completely different shade of color. You can even change its texture from curly to straight and vice-versa, both by temporary heat-styling means and by permanent chemical means.

But you are still and always will be the same person. The person you are lies within. I think if we all as a human species started looking at ourselves from the inside rather than what we see on the outside, we would all grow as better individual human beings.

[holothuroidea]

Very excellent thread, Ktani!

It can be either way. Religions will regulate the hair of it's members to separate them from the rest of society, especially fundamentalist Christian sects. That, to me, is a statement. I can't really think of any political ones, the most recent political hair cut I can reference right now is Sinead O'Conner's bald style. Alas, I am young and completely missed out on the sixties. Maybe we just have less political statements to make now. If we did, I hope we could still use our hair. It's a pretty powerful tool.

Not all statements are political or religious. I had a former BF who shaved his head when his Mom lost her hair from chemo. Young people used different hair styles to "try on" different roles.

That having been said, most hair is not meant to make a statement and It's unwise to assume anyone is trying to tell you something with what their particular hair style is.

[ktani]

Very excellent thread, Ktani!

It can be either way. Religions will regulate the hair of it's members to separate them from the rest of society, especially fundamentalist Christian sects. That, to me, is a statement. I can't really think of any political ones, the most recent political hair cut I can reference right now is Sinead O'Conner's bald style. Alas, I am young and completely missed out on the sixties. Maybe we just have less political statements to make now. If we did, I hope we could still use our hair. It's a pretty powerful tool.

Not all statements are political or religious. I had a former BF who shaved his head when his Mom lost her hair from chemo. Young people used different hair styles to "try on" different roles.

That having been said, most hair is not meant to make a statement and It's unwise to assume anyone is trying to tell you something with what their particular hair style is.

Thank you!

How totally cool of your former BF to do that in support of his mom.

I do not think many fundamentalist Christian sects do that but again, out of my area and not something I have researched.

"Totally cool" dates me lol but I could care less. I like the expression, lol.

I agree about assumptions. There is an expression about that too, I will not name.

[holothuroidea]

No, no, and no. :rolleyes:

Hair is just a collection of dead protein, lipids, some water and carbohydrates. That's all it is.

You can easily cut your hair into a completely different haircut. You can color it and bleach it to a completely different shade of color. You can even change its texture from curly to straight and vice-versa, both by temporary heat-styling means and by permanent chemical means.

But you are still and always will be the same person. The person you are lies within. I think if we all as a human species started looking at ourselves from the inside rather than what we see on the outside, we would all grow as better individual human beings.

I get (and like!) your reductionist point of view but I have to disagree. If we were emotionless and cultureless hair would just be hair, but we are not. All style has reference and all reference has meaning for individuals as well as for a group. That is why it is possible to make statements using hair, clothes, fashion, etc.

But just because it is possible to make statements this way doesn't mean anyone in particular is trying to.

[holothuroidea]

Thank you!

How totally cool of your former BF to do that in support of his mom.

I do not think many fundamentalist Christian sects do that but again, out of my area and not something I have researched.

"Totally cool" dates me lol but I could care less. I like the expression, lol.

I agree about assumptions. There is an expression about that too, I will not name.

Well he's a totally cool guy. :D I have to take your word for it that the expression dates you because I have no reference for it, except maybe the 80's which I was not really cognizant of.

Fundamentalist Christian sects that have hair regulations that I can name off the top of my head: FLDS, Amish, Mennonite, and certain Orthodox and Catholic groups. Other non-Christian examples are Hasidic and Orthodox Judaism, and Sikhism. I mentioned the Christian ones because there is a verse in the bible (I can't remember where, sorry) that teaches followers not to conform to society and they use hair style as one way to set themselves apart.

[ericthegreat]

I get (and like!) your reductionist point of view but I have to disagree. If we were emotionless and cultureless hair would just be hair, but we are not. All style has reference and all reference has meaning for individuals as well as for a group. That is why it is possible to make statements using hair, clothes, fashion, etc.

But just because it is possible to make statements this way doesn't mean anyone in particular is trying to.

And often those statements are absolutely wrong. For instance, "Blondes are all dumb promiscuous sexual playthings", "gingers are aggressive and hostile, and brunettes are all intelligent intellectuals. :rolleyes:

All these stereotypes and prejudices based on haircolor/hairstyle are all sexist, racist, homophobic, subversive, and above all just plain WRONG!

[Snippety]

I have found that people put their own interpretations on hair and other aspects of appearance. I had a shaved head for a number of years and loads of people automatically assumed that I was a lesbian. I also have piercings and tattoos. I turned up at a bar-b-q once and the host offered me a grilled banana because "you're vegan, right ?" when at the time I was a committed carnivore. I also had my boss take me aside and give me a "friendly warning" that being involved in the May Day protests planned for that week could get me into trouble at work if I was recognised on tv.

People just looked at the image and thought gay, environmentalist, vegan etc. In fact I have never been any of these things. I just wanted a low maintenance androgynous look. It's partly the reason why I started to grow my hair again. These days I do feel as though I am rebelling against a culture that expects mid forties women to be desperately trying to avert the aging process by having long, greying hair, no cosmetics and masculine clothing. It's also about how I feel inside, what is most true to myself.

[ktani]

Well he's a totally cool guy. :D I have to take your word for it that the expression dates you because I have no reference for it, except maybe the 80's which I was not really cognizant of.

Fundamentalist Christian sects that have hair regulations that I can name off the top of my head: FLDS, Amish, Mennonite, and certain Orthodox and Catholic groups. Other non-Christian examples are Hasidic and Orthodox Judaism, and Sikhism. I mentioned the Christian ones because there is a verse in the bible (I can't remember where, sorry) teaches followers not to conform to society and they use hair style as one way to set themselves apart.

The Hasidic and Orthodox Judaism regulations I am familiar with to an extent, although things within can change. There are levels within levels within levels of Judaism.

I know a bit about the dress of certain others you name and I remember watching something about FLDS and their hairstyles. I consider that a cult.

[holothuroidea]

And often those statements are absolutely wrong. For instance, "Blondes are all dumb promiscuous sexual playthings", "gingers are aggressive and hostile, and brunettes are all intelligent intellectuals. :rolleyes:

All these stereotypes and prejudices based on haircolor/hairstyle are all sexist, racist, homophobic, subversive, and above all just plain WRONG!

:bigeyes:

Where on earth are you getting those stereotypes from? That is extreme, and frankly, a little frightening.

ETA: It's also upsetting to me that the stereotypes you mention are very gender-polarizing. What about a blonde male or a ginger female? I have no idea where your head is at when you say that these things are actual stereotypes that exist. They seem made-up to me.

[Rybe]

And often those statements are absolutely wrong. For instance, "Blondes are all dumb promiscuous sexual playthings", "gingers are aggressive and hostile, and brunettes are all intelligent intellectuals. :rolleyes:

All these stereotypes and prejudices based on hair color/hairstyle are all sexist, racist, homophobic, subversive, and above all just plain WRONG!

I think you're talking more about stereotypes than people actively cutting their hair for an effect. If you judge someone based on their hair COLOR yeah, you're an idiot (being born a natural blond I had a deep loathing for the color by the time I started going ashy thanks to the blond snarks) but if you have a bright green 3 foot tall mohawk (I saw one once! We weren't sure how he got in and out of cars...) you're probably trying to make a statement.

But it can get extremely stupid. In high school when I cut my hair short some people started thinking I was a lesbian :rolleyes: But I'm pretty sure my husband would disagree with this assumption about my sexual orientation.

To me, hair generally makes more of a statement about someone's personality than necessarily a racial/political one. Speaking of high school, I saw today on facebook that my old friend is now rocking the most amazing 'fro. But I know his hair is more of a statement of his personality, in that he likes being a little off the wall and different, than his political views (which he has plenty of!) or racial identity...And now that he's out of college he doesn't have to worry about being that guy with the fro who sits in front of you in the lecture hall and blocks everything...:mad:

If I see a guy with a completely shaved head, if I I have to make an assumption, I'd just assume he's going bald if anything, unless he has like a swastika tattooed on his neck. It's all about context. You can't live without stereotypes, your brain needs them to organize life, but yes, you have to be careful because they can get wildly stupid.

[celebriangel]

Hells no. I mean, I would hate for people to think I'm normal just because my appearance is still unremarkable ;-) .

I don't judge people by their hair alone. I do make some provisional, educated.guesses based on someone's overall.appearance though, and I suppose the hair plays in. But it's a personal judgement, not a political one.

[ktani]

And often those statements are absolutely wrong. For instance, "Blondes are all dumb promiscuous sexual playthings", "gingers are aggressive and hostile, and brunettes are all intelligent intellectuals. :rolleyes:

All these stereotypes and prejudices based on haircolor/hairstyle are all sexist, racist, homophobic, subversive, and above all just plain WRONG!

I have heard of those stereotypes but I have never met people who actually subscribe to them. That said, dumb blonde jokes made a "comeback" a few years ago. I do not care for jokes of that nature which you can substitue any term for, nor do any of my friends. Same old jokes just pick a different term used instead of blonde. Many used to be racist in nature with substitutions.

[evb]

:bigeyes:

Where on earth are you getting those stereotypes from? That is extreme, and frankly, a little frightening.

ETA: It's also upsetting to me that the stereotypes you mention are very gender-polarizing. What about a blonde male or a ginger female? I have no idea where your head is at when you say that these things are actual stereotypes that exist. They seem made-up to me.

I agree with you and don't understand where this is coming from~~ my impression of the question posed was do you think hair style says something. Hairstyle is usually self directed. Even if you don't cut or keep covered etc because of religious edicts one could say you are subscribing to that religions views so it is self directed in that sense. One's natural hair color is genetic and not at all a matter of choice. Now if I were to dye my hair black or bleach it blonde or [my usual habit] of going red then yeah it is a clue as to what I think is attractive. Or unattractive as the case was when I first started sprouting the grays and was fanatic about the upkeep on my dye job.

[Fairytale]

No I dont see hairstyles as a satement of religion,race or politics.

I dont stay focused on interpreting any one hairstyle I just like to admire a pretty head of hair!:D

[GlennaGirl]

No I dont see hairstyles as a satement of religion,race or politics.

I dont stay focused on interpreting any one hairstyle I just like to admire a pretty head of hair!:D

^^ Yuppers...

[kitschy]

I have battled stereotypes all of my life because I'm a curly-headed blonde. It is what it is, and I'm finally comfortable with my appearance, but because I am buxom too, a lot of folks assume I am a floozy.

[ladonna]

No not usually.
I keep mine and my kids hair growing since we are Native American and I love long dark hair. I never thought about having my son's hair long until I saw a boy in my neighborhood with some awesome long hair, I'm assuming he's Native American too. And long hair seems pretty fashionable right now.

[McFearless]

:bigeyes:

Where on earth are you getting those stereotypes from? That is extreme, and frankly, a little frightening.

ETA: It's also upsetting to me that the stereotypes you mention are very gender-polarizing. What about a blonde male or a ginger female? I have no idea where your head is at when you say that these things are actual stereotypes that exist. They seem made-up to me.
These stereotypes very much exist and are usually geared towards women.

[McFearless]

To answer the question, when I view others I just admire pretty hair. I don't draw connections to their race or religion or sex. I'm sure there are people who have certain hairstyles for deeper meanings but I can't tell by looking at them. Personally my hair is just a reflection of my genes and nothing more.

Of course there are religious people who wear a certain covering like Jews and Muslims so I notice those things, but they are the exception.

[moxamoll]

I do want to add that it seems that it is more people's perception of a given hairstyle then a wearer's intent these days.
This!

With the internet and all possibilities to see what everyone is doing these days, trends and movements get co-opted before the 90% of the whole who even vaguely pay attention know that they are happening. Even looking at the whole ensemble is a bad way to make guesses about a person - I can do business casual, punk, grunge, black-tie, athletic... and it's more to suit the occasion than to make a statement about any values I might hold.

[katsrevenge]

I do... and then again, I don't.

At one time in my life, my hair was a political statement. It was cut into a punk cut and dyed every color I felt like. It was one of the ways I was trying to express who I was. I grew older and decided I didn't need my hair to reflect my politics anymore. My mouth could do that well enough on its own!

Around here many Black Muslim men (the black power variant, not Muslims who happen to be black. HUGE difference!) tend to dress thier hair in a very stereotypical style, clean cut but with a certain kind of beard. For them it is a very strong statement. Some few older types still use the afro as a statement. I've even seen a few young guys/gals with afros with the black power fist on the pick stuck into their hair.

Long hair on non-black men, a certain kind of long hair.. not those shaggy teen cuts, is still a bit of a statement if combined with the right clothing.

Then again, it is not political all the time. My guy has an afro and while he is proud of who he is.. he is no radical. Some guys just grow long hair. Some women just shave their heads. It can be as simple as that. I try to look at the whole person before making any judgment calls on thier politics based on thier haircut.

But. As a bit of an old punk I get pissy if someone is rocking the look and not the politics... It's a pet peeve.

[ktani]

I have seen some unusual things for me, although I do not shop in malls that much anymore.

I think I posted about this one but I will repeat it here. A very sophisticated ETA looking woman over 40, with white white hair almost to her shoulders in exceptional condition - a long bob - in a black and white outfit to show off (as it seemed to me) her hair. How I saw that - a confident woman, sure of her looks and her personal style.

A woman over 30 with majenta hair - short with long layers but a nice cut. My impression - this woman is thinking outside of whatever box and good for her.

A layered but not overlayered cut on a woman 20 or under - cut just past chin - fine thin hair that fell and moved perfectly - when I complimented the her - no I did not know her - I do that though - it turns out that she had just told the stylist to "do what he wanted". She was pleased with it and it suited her to perfection. Lucky woman - with guts, lol - and a treasure of a hair stylist.

[NotInPortland]

I think hair can and still is sometimes used as a statement of politics, religion or race. At least I assume I'm answering the question the way it was intended? Some of the replies here are confusing me.

I think in general the average persons hairstyle is just a reflection of their personality and tastes but I have no doubt that for some their hair is a statement of one of the above, it might just be that the only person who thinks it is is the person themselves you know? Like maybe someone says screw this or that political group or I hate all politicians so I'll grow my hair as long as I want to stick it to the man! Yet for someone else long hair could mean something totally different to them or mean nothing at all really. I think today it's more personal in many cases as opposed to say the 60's/70's when long hair or an afro particularly in the states was linked by the majority to a particular movement or idea.

[Athena's Owl]

Do you consider a hairstyle a statement of race, religion or politics?

Sure. It can be, and it often is. I don't see why this needs to be asked about - i mean isn't it obvious that a hairstyle can have its roots in any of those things?

Whether a specific hairstyle on an individual person's head is or isn't...well. I'm afraid that's none of my business, so i don't waste any time on it.

[racrane]

Hairstyles are used for many different things throughout the years, but their meanings change. I generally do not mind, unless someone takes their opinions and tries to force it on me. I love my hair, it does not offend anyone and I treat others with respect, too.

[CurlyCap]

I see hairstyles the way I see clothes.

Whether people intend it to or not, the way a person presents themselves sends messages to the people around them. If they are aware of those messages and manipulating them, fine. If not...they'll figure it out soon enough.

[TrudieCat]

Everything exists in a multitude of contexts and can be viewed in a multitude of ways - if we are willing to acknowledge all of those contexts and truly consider what they mean today and have meant in the past, to various people in various places. So... yes... and no. But I also consider everything to be an expression of everything, in one way or another... so there you have it. :)

[ktani]

I think hair can and still is sometimes used as a statement of politics, religion or race. At least I assume I'm answering the question the way it was intended? Some of the replies here are confusing me.

I think in general the average persons hairstyle is just a reflection of their personality and tastes but I have no doubt that for some their hair is a statement of one of the above, it might just be that the only person who thinks it is is the person themselves you know? Like maybe someone says screw this or that political group or I hate all politicians so I'll grow my hair as long as I want to stick it to the man! Yet for someone else long hair could mean something totally different to them or mean nothing at all really. I think today it's more personal in many cases as opposed to say the 60's/70's when long hair or an afro particularly in the states was linked by the majority to a particular movement or idea.

The idea is to reply in any way that makes sense to you. That is why some of the replies may seem confusing. This thread is about perceptions. They vary from person to person. In many cases that is all they can be because we do not know the person or facts behind a hairstyle when we see it.

[TrudieCat]

I have seen some unusual things for me, although I do not shop in malls that much anymore.

I think I posted about this one but I will repeat it here. A very sophisticated ETA looking woman over 40, with white white hair almost to her shoulders in exceptional condition - a long bob - in a black and white outfit to show off (as it seemed to me) her hair. How I saw that - a confident woman, sure of her looks and her personal style.

A woman over 30 with majenta hair - short with long layers but a nice cut. My impression - this woman is thinking outside of whatever box and good for her.

A layered but not overlayered cut on a woman 20 or under - cut just past chin - fine thin hair that fell and moved perfectly - when I complimented the her - no I did not know her - I do that though - it turns out that she had just told the stylist to "do what he wanted". She was pleased with it and it suited her to perfection. Lucky woman - with guts, lol - and a treasure of a hair stylist.

These can be seen as political, but so too can the most "conventional" styles imaginable. I don't think it's an accident that almost all American politicians have the same hair styles. Conformity and non-conformity are two sides of the same coin.

And also we have to think about where our ideas about what's conventional vs. what's not comes from in the first place. In Euro/North American societies, characteristics more commonly seen in people of European decent have often historically been seen as some sort of default "normal" or more conventional somehow, which is an example of white privilege. And this still holds true in a lot of cases (again with the American politicians, for example....). So people who follow this are seen as more a-political while people who don't are seen as more political... when in reality there *is* no such thing as a default way to look, or an a-political way to be. There's just the culturally privileged way, and every other way.

ETA: Another thing I think is that a lot of times short trumps curliness, in terms of what's seen as politically conventional these days (in the States anyway). What I mean is, I could more easily see a successful woman politician with a shorter curly style than a really really long straight style. That's just a thought I had, I don't know if that's accurate, but it's my sense of things. But the most conventional of all, and what I see in basically every woman American politician, is short straight hair.

[Darkhorse1]

I think ktani's question was interesting--in the 70s, hair was a HUGE way to express yourself in regards to making a statement against war/etc--since it was the hippie generation, long hair (was ironed by use of actual irons) was a way to express freedom against the war, as well as a short/short cut for women's liberation. Afro's were a way to show your pride in being African American--I think today, with those pivotal movements having been made, I would be interested to know if people chose a hair style based on religion or so forth.

[Orangerthanred]

Hairstyle is just hairstyle. It really has nothing to do with race, politics, etc., at least to me. If I felt like it, I could cut my hair 2 inches long, in which it would become super curly and voluminous and say it's an afro [technically it would be- afros are not just for African hair. Caucasians and Mongoloids can have afros]. I don't think anyone would think it's a statement. It's only hair.

[ktani]

There is not one opinion here so far that I do not find interesting, whether I personally agree with it or not.

I do think that it is more about our perceptions in many cases than the intent of the wearer, religious hairstyles excepted.

I also remember years ago (I will never live this down lol) when women first entered the civil service in force and politics here in Ontario.

The women politicians, unsure of how to present themselves at first had a carbon copy, standard cookie cutter look - shorn hair of no description and ill fitting blue suits, no make-up. Some fool must have told them that was the only way they would be taken seriously.

Thankfully, that did not last but I for one will never forget it.

[slz]

there *is* no such thing as a default way to look, or an a-political way to be.
I agree with this. Everything is political.

[Orangerthanred]

Gotta admire Hillary Clinton for wearing her hair in a ponytail rather than the usual short, stiff politician style. http://static02.mediaite.com/styleite/uploads/gallery/hillary-clinton-scrunchy/hillary2.jpg

[ktani]

I agree with this. Everything is political.

For me to understand this statement please define political to you.

I dress to please myself but also in a way I feel. Example - I will wear something sexy or slightly provocative within the limits of my taste when going certain places, and to work what is acceptable within the dress code if there is one but still to me tasteful.

Personal politics?

I find it interesting that women in politics - government - are under a different kind of scutiny which can work for or against them but it is not the same kind of scutiny a male politician gets - except the young and handsome ones and they do not necessarily get elected. It will only get any of those men so far.

[Mommyof4]

I used to think a person's hair was a reflection of personality, but now that I am unhappy with my hair (I'm waiting for my hair to grow to at least BSL and its just at shoulder now) and feeling like it looks awful and frizzy, I would not want someone to think the hairstyle I have right now is how I want to express myself. I do believe that for some people, their hair can be an outward display of beliefs or personality. I have a friend who dyes her hair in bright, gorgeous purples and blues and it looks AWESOME. I have friends who only micro-trim their hair because it is part of their religious beliefs, and their hair is beautiful, too. I have friends that are guys that have better hair than I do, and longer than I do, of which I'm only a tad envious ;) hehe (joking joking)... I am so crazy about my monthly hair growth, that now when I see a person's hair, I just look at length LOL.. when cutting my 3 son's hair, I always want them to look natural and clean-cut. My daughter's hair I trim to allow optimum length (this is her choice, she's almost 4 and wants to have rapunzel hair, the movie tangled has played a huge part lol) Living in the South of the US... I endure critism because my hair isn't straight and shiny. Curly hair gets a bad rap around where I live :/ Many people ask me if I need a good straightener like they see it as a hardship that my hair is curly lol.. so I can see where to alot of people, hair is a big statement.. I like people to look how they feel best and that's when they look great, because they're happy. :) *hugs to all*

[holothuroidea]

But. As a bit of an old punk I get pissy if someone is rocking the look and not the politics... It's a pet peeve.

:neutral: Ack, you touched a nerve. This is about the only thing about my appearance I've ever been criticized openly for.

My hair was always short and a new (rainbow) color every week. I purposefully mismatched patterns, socks, and colors and wore as much home-made costume jewelry as was humanly possible. I was an indie kid, I spent my teenage years with my friends in coffee shops listening to local bands and jamming.

I remember some people older than me criticizing me for looking "punk" without living the lifestyle or making the same kind of sacrifices. But to me I was just doing what I was comfortable with and having fun with my style. The only statement I was trying to make is "this is me." In all my bright colors and melancholy expressions.

To my defense, I'm not even sure what "punk" politics are. I'm just generation Y, a combination of oblivious innocence and willful independence. :cool:

[ktani]

These can be seen as political, but so too can the most "conventional" styles imaginable. I don't think it's an accident that almost all American politicians have the same hair styles. Conformity and non-conformity are two sides of the same coin.

And also we have to think about where our ideas about what's conventional vs. what's not comes from in the first place. In Euro/North American societies, characteristics more commonly seen in people of European decent have often historically been seen as some sort of default "normal" or more conventional somehow, which is an example of white privilege. And this still holds true in a lot of cases (again with the American politicians, for example....). So people who follow this are seen as more a-political while people who don't are seen as more political... when in reality there *is* no such thing as a default way to look, or an a-political way to be. There's just the culturally privileged way, and every other way.

ETA: Another thing I think is that a lot of times short trumps curliness, in terms of what's seen as politically conventional these days (in the States anyway). What I mean is, I could more easily see a successful woman politician with a shorter curly style than a really really long straight style. That's just a thought I had, I don't know if that's accurate, but it's my sense of things. But the most conventional of all, and what I see in basically every woman American politician, is short straight hair.

I do not disagree. In politics - goverment - women are up against being judged differently than men - and need to not be seen as "threatening" which is ludicrous to me but it is so.

Successful male politicians are not the most handsome, the best dressers or the most attractive. They are judged on how effectively they can get a position stated - enough to get them elected and how successfuly they manage their political affairs.

[jacqueline101]

I don't see a hair do or style as a reflection of a political statement I think its a statement of my personality. My hair has its own power sure the difference between a good and bad hair day.

[EdG]

I see hair as an expression of individuality. :cheese:
Ed

[hisprincess]

As someone who's been racially identified (incorrectly) by my hair all my life, I never had the privilege of thinking of hair as just hair. In the past, my wearing dreadlocks and micro braids were statements of pride in my heritage. I also got a lot of flack for those styles in places where they were considered "unprofessional." Growing my hair out now also has spiritual significance for me. I love expressing myself with my hair beyond the realm of beauty. Of *course* this is not true of everyone. Personally, I didn't read the question as "Do you stereotype others based on their hairstyles?"

[GlennaGirl]

I see hair as an expression of individuality. :cheese:
Ed

Go Ed! :cheese: Love this answer.

[PixxieStix]

I have to say, when I see hair, I'm usually just looking at a head of hair and assessing whether or not I like the cut, color, if it looks good, if it doesn't, what condition the hair appears to be in, etc., and THEN I seem to look at the rest of the person. To me, how one carries oneself and dresses is much more indicative of any religious/political statement I think they may possibly be making. But, I mean, it has to be pretty darn obvious for me to come to such a conclusion.

Mostly , hair to me is something to be admired, and not much else beyond that. Someone could turn their hair into a statement of politics/religion if they wanted, but I don't usually see or look for such things.

[PlainLight]

Here's a "religious" hairstyle that's fascinating to me, but I can't imagine trying to re-create it. This hairstyle is worn by Old Colony Mennonite women in South America. (sorry the picture is big, I can't figure out how to resize it.)

http://www.jordibusque.com/data/menno_bolivia/CF0261-DSC_8491.jpg

[gretchen_hair]

Right on! :D:D:D


I see hair as an expression of individuality. :cheese:
Ed

[katsrevenge]

Yes... there was a reason you were criticized. I'm the tail end of X or the start of Y.. take your pick there. And even I know/knew that, LOL!

There are some looks you don't take up without knowing what the heck it means. It's like the clueless close-minded girl who once lived on my floor. She was constantly wearing rainbows in print and fabric, gay 'marker' jewelry (things like glass beads in a rainbow fashion in macrame) and all the rainbow colored stuff you could think of. And yet she couldn't figure out why girls were constantly hitting on her! I had to explain it to her that those stores with all the rainbow goodies were not just because people liked rainbows that much.

And, because she was close minded she dropped most of her rainbows off at the goodwill. Le sigh. Some people.

I'd say indie is not a punk look at all. Most indie kids I knew tended to look more like a better put together grunge meets boho. Those kids could give two shakes about politics. The guy with the Black Flag sticker and a big green hawk though.. he had better be at least a little political. ;)

Oh, and 'punk' politics tend to be left, green or back to basics/sustainable, possibly anarchist, sometimes Marxist, almost always anti-authoritarian and pro-personal rights. 'Political' bands include (but are not limited to!) stuff like Dead Kennedys, Anti-Flag and NOFX (off the top of my head here). This here is probably my favorite NOFX song. It's The Decline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCz8PNvABO0). It's... very cutting but mostly lyrically clean.


:neutral: Ack, you touched a nerve. This is about the only thing about my appearance I've ever been criticized openly for.

My hair was always short and a new (rainbow) color every week. I purposefully mismatched patterns, socks, and colors and wore as much home-made costume jewelry as was humanly possible. I was an indie kid, I spent my teenage years with my friends in coffee shops listening to local bands and jamming.

I remember some people older than me criticizing me for looking "punk" without living the lifestyle or making the same kind of sacrifices. But to me I was just doing what I was comfortable with and having fun with my style. The only statement I was trying to make is "this is me." In all my bright colors and melancholy expressions.

To my defense, I'm not even sure what "punk" politics are. I'm just generation Y, a combination of oblivious innocence and willful independence. :cool:

[holothuroidea]

There are some looks you don't take up without knowing what the heck it means. It's like the clueless close-minded girl who once lived on my floor. She was constantly wearing rainbows in print and fabric, gay 'marker' jewelry (things like glass beads in a rainbow fashion in macrame) and all the rainbow colored stuff you could think of. And yet she couldn't figure out why girls were constantly hitting on her! I had to explain it to her that those stores with all the rainbow goodies were not just because people liked rainbows that much.

I respect your POV but I have to disagree with you. One shouldn't have to reference an entire library of past fashion statements when one picks out an outfit to make sure it's okay. If I likes what I sees, I wears it. Rainbows are hardcore awesome.


And, because she was close minded she dropped most of her rainbows off at the goodwill. Le sigh. Some people.

Now that's just ridiculous!!


I'd say indie is not a punk look at all. Most indie kids I knew tended to look more like a better put together grunge meets boho. Those kids could give two shakes about politics. The guy with the Black Flag sticker and a big green hawk though.. he had better be at least a little political. ;)

I interpret indie style as, "wear what you like and not what anyone else tells you to." I had friends with very avant guarde tastes, that would cut patterns out of t-shirts and wear them over contrasting colors. I knew one guy who was obsessed with the color gray. Most of the people I knew had a very stern belief that the music was the most important thing, and would never wear anything "distracting" for that reason. I was the only one with colored hair in our group.

"Those kids could give two shakes about politics." You got that right! There was an unwritten law: no politics, no religion. If you wrote an overtly political song everyone gave you the stink eye (I did it once). If you wanted to talk about it, you needed to talk in metaphor.


Oh, and 'punk' politics tend to be left, green or back to basics/sustainable, possibly anarchist, sometimes Marxist, almost always anti-authoritarian and pro-personal rights. 'Political' bands include (but are not limited to!) stuff like Dead Kennedys, Anti-Flag and NOFX (off the top of my head here). This here is probably my favorite NOFX song. It's The Decline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCz8PNvABO0). It's... very cutting but mostly lyrically clean.

Well that's very similar to my own belief set, but I don't practice politics I just live my beliefs. My political hero is Thoreau. I've listened to NOFX, I like them. I've got babies around so I'll listen to the song later but just to give you the gist of "Indie politics" you can listen to Cursive's "The Great Decay." All metaphor, and it's more about how culture effects individuals and less about how it effects the group.

The watered down "indie" I see in kids now bothers me, so I get where your coming from! I wouldn't criticize them for it, I will just indulge their innocence. They'll come up with their own thing. :)

[HazyMoon]

I don't see a hair do or style as a reflection of a political statement I think its a statement of my personality. My hair has its own power sure the difference between a good and bad hair day.

I feel the same. I think my hair reflects my personality. I think hair has the ability to project a facet of an ideal self. If I want to look dark and sultry, and dye my hair black ... that isn't political. However, other people may use their hair (and clothes, actions, etc) to make a political, religious, or social statement.

[ktani]

I think ktani's question was interesting--in the 70s, hair was a HUGE way to express yourself in regards to making a statement against war/etc--since it was the hippie generation, long hair (was ironed by use of actual irons) was a way to express freedom against the war, as well as a short/short cut for women's liberation. Afro's were a way to show your pride in being African American--I think today, with those pivotal movements having been made, I would be interested to know if people chose a hair style based on religion or so forth.

Thank you and true for the rest of your post. Clothes irons were used to iron hair and hair was also wrapped around the head then too, in an effort to straighten it.

Long hair was an act of rebellion against "the Establishment". Many counter culture youths believed ETA (the ideals of the hippie culture) -were the start of an ideological revolution that would change the world and in many ways they did - just not in the ways thought of then.

Make love not war - great idea - still is.

[HazyMoon]

I respect your POV but I have to disagree with you. One shouldn't have to reference an entire library of past fashion statements when one picks out an outfit to make sure it's okay. If I likes what I sees, I wears it. Rainbows are hardcore awesome.

I could not agree more. There are so many cultures and symbols in the world. One should have the freedom and not be judged for liking something that happens to be a symbol of culture, religion, etc.

Also, if we are restricted to wearing clothing (or styling ourselves) in a way that represents our culture or niche, there is no room to explore! No rainbows, no turbans, no super long hair (if you want to take it that far). Cultures are merging and I honestly don't know what I would consider mine. Germans and French people meet up in American country? So I have the freedom to choose my lifestyle and my appearance, based on what I find appealing, with little regard to others' opinion of it.

[FroggyMonkeyMom]

(didn't read all the posts)

I'm a converted Muslim of 16 years and for most of those years I wore hijab (headscarf.) I recently stopped wearing it (no particular reason, just decided to stop.) sometimes hair that's kept out of sight (Muslim, Jewish, Amish) is a religious statement. I definitely am no longer "recognizable," being white, blonde, and blue eyed and all. :-P Oh, and in case anyone is interested, there are some Muslim women who are against cutting their hair, they believe it's against the religion, but most dont hold that view and have the usual styles like everyone else.

Actually my first exposure to extra long hair was religious in nature. We had a large Penecostal community were I grew up, the women never wore make up or cut their hair and always wore dresses and skirts.

Also, some Sikh men don't cut their hair.

I never thought of hair as political though

[ktani]

I could not agree more. There are so many cultures and symbols in the world. One should have the freedom and not be judged for liking something that happens to be a symbol of culture, religion, etc.

Also, if we are restricted to wearing clothing (or styling ourselves) in a way that represents our culture or niche, there is no room to explore! No rainbows, no turbans, no super long hair (if you want to take it that far). Cultures are merging and I honestly don't know what I would consider mine. Germans and French people meet up in American country? So I have the freedom to choose my lifestyle and my appearance, based on what I find appealing, with little regard to others' opinion of it.

There can be awkward moments with that lol. A friend gave me a top that I loved and still do with as much ignorance of the pattern on it as I had.

The last time I wore it out I was told and checked it out - it was some gang insignia pattern that was well known, except to the two of us apparantly. I still wear it - but only at home, lol.

[HazyMoon]

ktani, hahaha well yes I suppose there are special circumstances where we should be cautious. :p

[teela1978]

I have a horrible prejudice with hair. If I know someone dyes their hair I often knock them down a couple pegs on the awesome scale. Same with straightening. It goes both ways, women rocking their greys get bumped up. Women with curly hair who wear it curly get bumped up a bit. Women with type 4+ hair who wear it natural get a big bump.

And its ridiculous. What a person does, or doesn't do to their hair really doesn't say anything about them. But it automatically happens in my brain. At least I'm aware of it and can fix things post-bump (hopefully).

So my innate response to certain types of hair(styles) is a strong association with the character of that person. Wrong or not, I can't be the only one who does that.

[jeanniet]

I think hair can express many things. People here tend to be very individualistic because it's an eclectic community, and I see all different kinds of hair, which I love. I can't say that a given length or style means X, because sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I know very religious people with long hair and some with short hair, for instance. The liberal community here is pretty large, so I'd have to say if I see someone with dreads or a mohawk or a similar "non-mainstream" style I'd probably make the assumption that they were politically liberal, but that's exactly what it is, an assumption--which is something I shouldn't do.

[taimatsuko]

Hmm... I really liked what hisprincess said. I am able to think that other people's hair as just hair but I am unable to think of mine in that way.

Personally, the way I wear and style my hair is a political and personal statement. I wear it 'natural' because I've always had a complex about it not being good enough for my or others and so wearing it this way is my way to declare to myself and to the world that the way I was born is indeed 'good enough'. Honestly, I don't think my hair is very 'me' or who I am inside. If I wanted to be most comfortable I would be rocking a classic or thigh length wavy weave. That's how I feel inside but I very consciously wear my hair a certain way. In a way it's a spiritual/religious thing, it's for my personal beliefs.

The way others perceive it... I've heard a lot of different things. Older men and a lot of my friends tend to think it's 70s nostalgia, My mother thinks is 'dirty' and 'unkempt', few people I talk to tend to think it's just hair but I really admire those few who do. It's really to the point where I feel that a personals acceptance or rejection of my hair as it is is really an acceptance or rejection of me as a person. A part of my identity is definitely bound up in my hair. I think that stereotype and judgement is in large part unavoidable (in my own life) and I think it's the most amazing thing when people can look at hair (especially my hair) as just hair. I can't even do that yet.

That was a rather convoluted response but that's how I tend to feel about hairstyle in my life and the way I think others perceive my personal style.

[katsrevenge]

I respect your POV but I have to disagree with you. One shouldn't have to reference an entire library of past fashion statements when one picks out an outfit to make sure it's okay. If I likes what I sees, I wears it. Rainbows are hardcore awesome.


I mostly can see your point. Mostly. I say mostly because sub and counter cultures need their symbols to see and find one another. If one is drawing heavily on a particular culture without being a member it's almost cultural theft. Taking a bit here and a pinch there? Not a big deal.

Throwing a fit because those in the culture are confused? Silly.

Just as a a funny *ha-ha* thing. I once almost had my teeth kicked down my throat and had a few white supremacists attempt to befriend me over the course of a few weeks. I couldn't figure out why these people thought I was racist. I'm not. Drove me nuts. It turned out that I had inadvertantly put the wrong bloody color laces in a pair of classic black Doc Martins boots. Don't lace them with red laces, kids, it's a Neo-Nazi/'pure white race' crap thing. Had I known the older culture a bit better that would not have happened! (They were my first Docs. I was very pleased to get them. I had heard of a 'color code' but didn't know anything more about it.)

Oh, and I burned those laces. Lesson learned. Do yer research!

[Arashi]

"Do you consider a hairstyle a statement of race, religion or politics? "

I think it can be, but when I see someone's hair I don't tend to analyze it in such a way. If I witnessed, say, someone with a mullet my train of thought would not be "that person must be ____" but instead simply "that isn't a very flattering hair style.." and then I would go back to thinking about something else entirely.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that even though I realize hairstyle can be a religious or political statement(I am not so sure about race), when I see someone's hair I don't consider what statement that might be(if any), and just look at it with a "hair is hair" type view. :shrug:

[Aveyronnaise]

As someone who's been racially identified (incorrectly) by my hair all my life, I never had the privilege of thinking of hair as just hair. In the past, my wearing dreadlocks and micro braids were statements of pride in my heritage. I also got a lot of flack for those styles in places where they were considered "unprofessional." Growing my hair out now also has spiritual significance for me. I love expressing myself with my hair beyond the realm of beauty. Of *course* this is not true of everyone. Personally, I didn't read the question as "Do you stereotype others based on their hairstyles?"

I can really relate to your story in some aspects. I am the mix of an extremes. My dad was a Mexican indian , a very dark guy , with the appearance of asian eyefolds , no body hair etc. He was not from the European side of the Mexican gene pool.
While my mom was blond, pale, tall, blue eyes etc.
I ended up somewhere in the middle looking kind of like a natural goth. lol. Everyone thinks I dye my hair , or that I am Italian, everything but what I am .I can't tell you how many times I have had to hear Mexican jokes , or slurs in my life because people didn't realize that I was Mexican.
When I have longer hair it gives me a sense of connection to my Mexican indigenous culture and history.It's I guess a statement , maybe for me, I don't think it registers for other people.
Also as I get older , it goes against the grain of short man cuts that are around here.

[MinderMutsig]

Unless it is blindingly obvious (i.e. Orthodox Jewish men with the curls) or specifically stated I see a hairstyle as nothing more than a hairstyle.

[Bantam]

I think it is very dangerous to make any sort of assumption on someone based on their hairstyle and I therefore try not to do it myself. There is a difference, however, between speculating that a short hairdo might imply lesbianism or that a spiky green hairdo might imply a rebellious nature, and refusing to get to know a person because of your prejudices.

While I have never linked any of the alienation I have received in the past to my hairstyle, the fact of the matter is, I was often alienated by other children/teens throughout school, and to this day, I don't fully understand why. Imagine how frustrating it would be if no-one ever bothered to get to know you, instead preferring to ostracise you and give you nasty looks for no apparent reason, only for you to discover years later that it was because they had been making assumptions about you based on your hairstyle. :(

If, on the other hand, a person was to wonder something about you based on your hairstyle and then to ask you about it, I wouldn't see that as a bad thing. On the contrary, I would be pleased that they were interested in learning more about me. Far better for people to find out the truth from your own mouth than to whisper nonsense about you behind your back until your entire community hates you for reasons you don't understand.

Sometimes I think I would like to try wearing a headscarf but am put off by the idea that people might think I have converted to Islam or that I have cancer, or worse, that I am pretending to have cancer just to evoke pity... I would also be a little concerned for fear of offending Muslims who could perceive it as disrespectful of me to "imitate" their religion without actually being a part of it. In reality, my reasons would be more for protection from the weather than any kind of statement. Still, I can't help but worry that people might perceive it that way. Maybe I'm just paranoid :confused:?

[Arashi]

Sometimes I think I would like to try wearing a headscarf but am put off by the idea that people might think I have converted to Islam or that I have cancer, or worse, that I am pretending to have cancer just to evoke pity... I would also be a little concerned for fear of offending Muslims who could perceive it as disrespectful of me to "imitate" their religion without actually being a part of it. In reality, my reasons would be more for protection from the weather than any kind of statement. Still, I can't help but worry that people might perceive it that way. Maybe I'm just paranoid :confused:?
I had an experience that relates to this once.
I was on a fishing trip with my father and my aunt a few years ago and we would go into this little town to get groceries.
Throughout the entire trip I kept my hair braided and under a headscarf to avoid wind and sun damage from being on the boat(it was comfortable and worked very well, by the way, so I would recommend it!).
One day my aunt and I went into the grocery store together, and we bought our stuff separately, so I left the store before she did to put it in the car.
After I left, my aunt heard the cashier make a nasty comment about me to another person working in the store, that was based on the assumption that I was Muslim. :confused:
I was aware of the practice of Muslim women wearing hijab, though I honestly never considered at the time that wearing a headscarf might cause people to perceive me as Muslim(nor would it have put me off of wearing one if I had thought of it).

I did not care if that woman thought I was Muslim or not, but the nasty comment she made was absolutely unacceptable. I was glad to hear that my aunt told her off for her hatefulness.

Anyway, if you want to try wearing a headscarf I'd say go for it. If someone makes some incorrect assumption about it, or draws some negative conclusion about it, whose problem is it but their own? Also, the wearing of headcoverings certainly is not limited to women of Islam faith and people receiving chemotherapy; the use of headcoverings has spanned a vast number of different cultures, religions, and practical purposes. Such as your perfectly reasonable desire to wear one for the purpose of protecting your hair from the elements. :)

[holothuroidea]

I mostly can see your point. Mostly. I say mostly because sub and counter cultures need their symbols to see and find one another. If one is drawing heavily on a particular culture without being a member it's almost cultural theft. Taking a bit here and a pinch there? Not a big deal.

Throwing a fit because those in the culture are confused? Silly

"Cultural theft" seems a bit extreme to me. It is really difficult to define certain sub cultures because they kind of bleed in together, and identifiers vary by group and by region. I don't think the boundaries are clear enough that you would be able to say, "this is punk and if you're not punk you can't do this." I believe that you've defined it for yourself very well but it's not fair to define it for everyone else based on your own or your particular group's standards.

Just for clarification, when I replied to your first post I didn't look at your age. I assumed you were talking about the punk movement that started in the seventies. I bet if you talked to one of those cats, they'd have criticism for the 90's version of punk, they might even accuse you of cultural theft.

I hope you don't think I threw a fit. I was merely sharing my story with you.

[ktani]

(didn't read all the posts)

I'm a converted Muslim of 16 years and for most of those years I wore hijab (headscarf.) I recently stopped wearing it (no particular reason, just decided to stop.) sometimes hair that's kept out of sight (Muslim, Jewish, Amish) is a religious statement. I definitely am no longer "recognizable," being white, blonde, and blue eyed and all. :-P Oh, and in case anyone is interested, there are some Muslim women who are against cutting their hair, they believe it's against the religion, but most dont hold that view and have the usual styles like everyone else.

Actually my first exposure to extra long hair was religious in nature. We had a large Penecostal community were I grew up, the women never wore make up or cut their hair and always wore dresses and skirts.

Also, some Sikh men don't cut their hair.

I never thought of hair as political though

Reading all the posts is not required here. It is about your perceptions and stories and experiences if you want to share details as you have done.

I find all of the posts here interesting.

[katsrevenge]

"Cultural theft" seems a bit extreme to me. It is really difficult to define certain sub cultures because they kind of bleed in together, and identifiers vary by group and by region. I don't think the boundaries are clear enough that you would be able to say, "this is punk and if you're not punk you can't do this." I believe that you've defined it for yourself very well but it's not fair to define it for everyone else based on your own or your particular group's standards.

Just for clarification, when I replied to your first post I didn't look at your age. I assumed you were talking about the punk movement that started in the seventies. I bet if you talked to one of those cats, they'd have criticism for the 90's version of punk, they might even accuse you of cultural theft.

I hope you don't think I threw a fit. I was merely sharing my story with you.

Meh, life isn't fair really. Part of being a member of an outside culture is getting to define it. Once upon a time that was really important to me... not so much anymore though. I just get ranked when they call Good Charlotte a punk band or see kids in Che or anarchy shirts but those kids have no idea who Che Guevara was or what he stood for... or that anarchy is more then getting wasted all the time. Your group did it too, you mentioned a no politics rule. Same basic idea. Who is in, who is out.

I knew a few crusty old punks from that era who still tried to live the ideals, if not the hairstyles. ;) Most of them were some of the most laid back, sweetest people you'd like to meet. Most were happy to see the politics live on, good music was being made and beer was being drunk.

I don't think you were throwing a fit..??? I was thinking of rainbow-girl. It was years ago but it still annoys me. :flower:

[slz]

For me to understand this statement please define political to you.
I mean it in a broard meaning, because we do not live in a vacuum , but it can be also, quite often, in a very litteral sense - like, what you buy / eat has an impact and reflects your politiicl choices, is a political choice in itself - buying big name brands (danone, nestle, l'oreal ..) = endorsing capitalism, or on the opposite choosing not to buy from certain countries, etc. Wearing high heels = being aware of the female submission it means, either agreeing with it, or playing with it ... you get my drift.
Sorry I can't explain more precisely since I'm vvery tired ATM.

[dili]

it can be, and can be not
for example, a woman may wear a very long hair because she likes it or because her religion says to dont cut, people in street dont know her reasons and make wrong assumptions. same thing with a guy with shaved head been confused with a neo-nazi, or a woman who simply likes scarfs been confused with muslim.
before i always confused with pentecostal christian because i had very long hair and wear long skirts and dresses... that time i was teenager and i got little irritated with people judging me all the time that i cutted my hair, just now that i wear it covered ( i am muslim) i am growing it super long again.

[Lissandria]

:drama:

Great Thread!

[ktani]

I mean it in a broard meaning, because we do not live in a vacuum , but it can be also, quite often, in a very litteral sense - like, what you buy / eat has an impact and reflects your politiicl choices, is a political choice in itself - buying big name brands (danone, nestle, l'oreal ..) = endorsing capitalism, or on the opposite choosing not to buy from certain countries, etc. Wearing high heels = being aware of the female submission it means, either agreeing with it, or playing with it ... you get my drift.
Sorry I can't explain more precisely since I'm vvery tired ATM.

I understand what you are saying. I do not see everything as political. However, with the criteria you set out, I can see how you or someone else can see everything that way.

[Charlotte:)]

I see hair as an expression of individuality. :cheese:
Ed

Me too! Before I saw this thread, it never occurred to me that it could be a racial or political statement. I did know that people grow/cover their hair for religious reasons, but I have never thought of that as a statement.

[ktani]

This haircut is to me troublesome on several levels,
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1868769&postcount=24

[Orangerthanred]

There is no such thing as cultural theft.

[ktani]

There is no such thing as cultural theft.

Please elaborate. I must have missed something. I do not know to what you are referring.

[KwaveT]

I agree with the sentiment that hair is a statement of your own individuality and personal preference.

[ktani]

The Hitler Youth haircut is being hailed and adopted by white supremecists. There are these forums, one of which I was just on unintentionally and it was most enlightening. Horrified does not cover the sick feeling I am left with after reading posts there.


ETA: From safe to my sensibilties sources, in spite of vague claims as to the actual age of the haircut - everything from the middle ages to decades before Hitler Youth, there is a definite connection to it now - it has been adopted by "hipsters" and is now "mainstream".
It goes by other names in European countries - no kidding on that call - but they appear to be deflections from the actual connection. The lack of sources and a straight line history - except references to Neo-Nazi groups adopting Nazi haircuts back when, I can find nothing concrete so far to back up the "oh it is not really about that" deflections.

[spike316]

I guess it depends on the person, but for me my hair is not really any kind of statement other than that of my own individuality. I like having fun colors in it and I don't mind standing out a bit, but generally I just do what I think is pretty with it. ^_^

[raehysteric]

Hairstyle can be a statement, but not necessarily. I'd need to see the person's whole presentation (clothing, demeanor, etc.) before deciding.

I was just going to say that myself. For some its just because they like how it looks on them. I'd actually love to get the emo-style long mophead haircut (with a red or purple stripe), but I'm far from being emo in any other fashion, unless I'm having a crapptastic day. I've just never done it because it seems like it takes too much upkeep and styling and I highly doubt my hair texture will do it right.

In some areas, my ex-bf might be called a skinhead for shaving his head, but honestly he does it because he doesn't like spending money on haircuts and he's got relatively advanced pattern baldness.

It don't mind the Hilter haircuts.. I just don't like that they are calling it that. However, don't most people know what that haircut is without having to have it described? We've just learned to associate that style with a terrible time in history. Its like women asking for the "Rachel" or the Farrah Fawcet.

[raehysteric]

There is no such thing as cultural theft.


Please elaborate. I must have missed something. I do not know to what you are referring.

Every cultural borrows from another culture and turns it into something of their own, or its something that was bound to happen there anymore and is more a common bit of human nature.

Have you ever read various creation myths? I did extensive research paper on this in college. Strip away some culturally specific details, and they all boil down to the same essence. Either its a common theme devised separately to quell similar fears, they are "borrowing" from one another (and making it theirs), or there is a common source. You really can't say either way.

Ps excuse me if this makes little sense, I came across this as I was going to bed.

[ktani]

Every cultural borrows from another culture and turns it into something of their own, or its something that was bound to happen there anymore and is more a common bit of human nature.

Have you ever read various creation myths? I did extensive research paper on this in college. Strip away some culturally specific details, and they all boil down to the same essence. Either its a common theme devised separately to quell similar fears, they are "borrowing" from one another (and making it theirs), or there is a common source. You really can't say either way.

Ps excuse me if this makes little sense, I came across this as I was going to bed.

I am indeed familiar with what you say. References in the Bible First Testament stories of the Great Flood for example are in other cultures of the Middle East, with different versions.

[taimatsuko]

Despite the fact that the name and connotations are rather disturbing.... I'm not gonna lie, aesthetically speaking I love the 'hitler youth' haircut. I think it's hip and rather sexy. It would be hard for me to make an actual heartfelt connection to anything negative because I was born very much after that era and I've never known any white supremacists. I think it's completely understandable that people could be offended by it though.

[katsrevenge]

There is no such thing as cultural theft.

My back is killing me and I'm about to head to bed.. but really quickly, for your education. :) Please note that I don't think all of the cultural mixing is bad. But, it is a real thing. People do get very upset over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
http://unsettlingamerica.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/cultural-appreciation-or-cultural-appropriation/

http://tattoo.about.com/cs/articles/a/maori_tamoko.htm

[Alun]

It can be.

Not really a statement of race, though. It can be a statement of culture, like dreads or small braids can be an afro-carribean thing, but a black person is still black enough if they don't go for those styles and it is possible for white people to have them too. The latter doesn't especially appeal to me, but I've nothing against it if someone white wants to wear their hair that way. I think it looks better on black people, but that's just me.

Certainly culture, but that can mean ethnic or something else like a subculture or a political belief, and often these things are interrelated.

I'm an out-of-fashion hippyish person, for sure, but it's not something I feel in any way apologetic about. I do tend to think that younger guys with long hair often share something of the same ethos, even if they actually know little about hippie culture in the 'olden days'! There are sometimes exceptions to that.

Long hair on women is harder to pigeonhole, and can mean anything from hippyish types to religious conservatives to just women who like long hair. This contrasts with men, who generally don't have long hair if they are conservative (unless they are classical violin players, LOL!) and generally aren't willing to put up with the disapproval that they still get from some people if long hair is just their aesthetic preference.

Skinheads were scary in their day. I can't even understand why men of my age would ever shave their heads, just because of that, and yet many do, so that will have to remain a mystery to me. If they were younger and had never seen hardcore skinheads, then I suppose that would be different, but it still has too many negative associations for me to ever like it.

As for women, Sinead O'Connor is the only one I ever saw who looked good with a shaved head, and I regret to say that as she gained weight I think she would have looked better with longer hair. Still, she has apparently lost a bit lately, so that helps. I can find a woman attractive at a much heavier weight, but not combined with hair that short. Sorry. As she apparently isn't going to grow out her hair, I wish her success with her diet!

[Venefica]

I think a hairstyle can be a way to express religion, group belonging and political view. However it have to be more than the hairstyle. A man I know look like a teddy bear, he dresses in bright colors and is bubbly to the point of being annoying you would not think he is a skinhead even if he is as bald as an egg. But yes hair is a statement if George Bush suddenly came sporting a foot high green Mohawk that would give a very different image from what he usually show, and also be damned cool.

For a long while having short hair have been a way for women to show that they are independent and free as long hair is associated with traditional gender roles, the opposite have been the case for men where growing hair long have been a way to show they are rebellious and individuals. I am into BDSM and it never fails, Dominant men want long hair on female submissives. Long hair is been considered feminine. However at the same time if that long haired woman dresses as a hippie or in other alternative clothes her long hair go from being traditionally feminine to being a statement for dressing naturally.

I am Goth and my hair is straight, long and colored black with sharp bangs in the front. Off course there is a reason why I keep my hair like this. In fact even stark naked most who saw me would guess that I am Goth due to my hairstyle.

I do not think hairstyles get outdated though, they grow in and out of popularity however I have never believed in following fashion so if you like to have big hair with lots of hairspray or a side ponytail then yes folks will see what decade you admire but I see nothing wrong with it, well except for the hairspray bit which really tortures your hair and makes me cringe just to think about. :P

[maria_tasha]

For me a hairstyle is just that but some groups do identify with certain ways to wear their hair and I think that's just awesome. Here in Romania we have the traditional gypsies that wear their hair in a certain way: women have long dark colored hair braided in 2 English braids embellished with coins and beads or ribbons.
http://blog.razvan-voiculescu.ro/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/tigancuse-porumbacu-de-sus-sibiu.jpg

Although I love their hairstyles and all I ( and just about anybody else that's not Rromanese) would never wear them unless is a costume party but this is a whole different discussion about racism and discrimination. I wish people would be more open minded.

Till then a pretty picture:
http://stiri.acasa.ro/uploads/photos/225x169/225x169_ce01441ce9c4cee120712784197331.jpeg

[ktani]

Evidence to the contrary not available that I have seen, this is what I think about the origins of the Hitler Youth haircut.

The actual 30s cut was modified from existing and past military cuts to appeal to youth of the time. The young men did not have to lose all hair of any length, just the sides and back, and it was attractive. That was part of the allure.

Fashion, whether clothes or hairstyles is notorious at any time for being a reworking of a past era's most popular trends. There are only so many ways to fit a dress or cut hair.

Whoever had the considerably less than bright idea in my opinion to use the actual Hitler Youth haircut as a model for the current one with variations, understandably wants to remain anonymous.

It may indeed be similar to cuts of the 80s. I have seen no pictures from that area that nail the current cut as it is presented today.

Supremicist groups must be laughing their racist heads off at the way this cut is being embraced by so many "mainstream" people now and no doubt in their twisted way, see it as a validation by others of their beliefs.

[Aveyronnaise]

Despite the fact that the name and connotations are rather disturbing.... I'm not gonna lie, aesthetically speaking I love the 'hitler youth' haircut. I think it's hip and rather sexy. It would be hard for me to make an actual heartfelt connection to anything negative because I was born very much after that era and I've never known any white supremacists. I think it's completely understandable that people could be offended by it though.
It was actually the mode of the 30's that haircut , almost every male had it , I don't see any pictures but I am assuming you mean the one which is cut very short all around with a long top?
I love that haircut, but I don't associate it with hitler youth.

You can actually see that haircut all over the place in the 20's as well. JUst because some fascists adopted it after the fact doesn't mean that the haircut has origins from them. As well the swastika came from Buddhism and northern Indian culture, as the eagle and standard came from Imperial Rome they don't own these symbols it just gives miscreants power to shock.
The SS skull actually looks like many Aztec and Mayan skulls as well.

Okay wait one more thing, the haircut was called a long regular , men had about 2 hair cuts during that epoch the short regular and the long regular.

[Venefica]

For me a hairstyle is just that but some groups do identify with certain ways to wear their hair and I think that's just awesome. Here in Romania we have the traditional gypsies that wear their hair in a certain way: women have long dark colored hair braided in 2 English braids embellished with coins and beads or ribbons.
http://blog.razvan-voiculescu.ro/wp-...-sus-sibiu.jpg (http://blog.razvan-voiculescu.ro/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/tigancuse-porumbacu-de-sus-sibiu.jpg)

I love it, that is so beautiful.


Although I love their hairstyles and all I ( and just about anybody else that's not Rromanese) would never wear them unless is a costume party but this is a whole different discussion about racism and discrimination. I wish people would be more open minded.


I think I have to try this hairstyle. I have long enough hair and it is straight and black and I love ribbons, coins and dangles.

[Bantam]

Anyway, if you want to try wearing a headscarf I'd say go for it. If someone makes some incorrect assumption about it, or draws some negative conclusion about it, whose problem is it but their own? Also, the wearing of headcoverings certainly is not limited to women of Islam faith and people receiving chemotherapy; the use of headcoverings has spanned a vast number of different cultures, religions, and practical purposes. Such as your perfectly reasonable desire to wear one for the purpose of protecting your hair from the elements. :)

Thanks Arashi! :)

[Bantam]

...I suppose what I am trying to say is that even though I realize hairstyle can be a religious or political statement(I am not so sure about race), when I see someone's hair I don't consider what statement that might be(if any), and just look at it with a "hair is hair" type view. :shrug:


...One shouldn't have to reference an entire library of past fashion statements when one picks out an outfit to make sure it's okay. If I likes what I sees, I wears it.

Quite right!:toast:

[mommyof2boys]

There is no such thing as cultural theft.

Whoa! You're kidding, right?:mad:

If that isn't a clear statement of white privilege. I don't know what it is.

[ktani]

This is a really good explanation of just what cultural theft can mean,
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1869151&postcount=103

I would still like to hear from the poster on exactly what they mean, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1868898&postcount=95

ETA: While the statement may appear to be clear on the topic, I would like to know for sure if that is the case.

[katsrevenge]

This is a really good explanation of just what cultural theft can mean,
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1869151&postcount=103

I would still like to hear from the poster on exactly what they mean, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1868898&postcount=95

ETA: While the statement may appear to be clear on the topic, I would like to know for sure if that is the case.

I'm quoted.. but I'm confused?

I do think there is such a thing as cultural theft. I think in most cases it is meant harmlessly or positively. Think Chinese tattoos/shirts on Americans...and English tattoos/shirts on Chinese. Each culture liked the other's writing..so they used it. No harm, no foul.

The original poster said there was no such thing so I found a few links about the negative effects of the practice.

[ktani]

I'm quoted.. but I'm confused?

I do think there is such a thing as cultural theft. I think in most cases it is meant harmlessly or positively. Think Chinese tattoos/shirts on Americans...and English tattoos/shirts on Chinese. Each culture liked the other's writing..so they used it. No harm, no foul.

The original poster said there was no such thing so I found a few links about the negative effects of the practice.

I quoted your post for just that reason. The original poster did say that (that there is no such thing).

However, that was all that was said. There was no explanation, no qualification if there is one, no context given etc.

If it is that simple and unqualified, fine. That is their opinion.

I think a peron should be given every opportunuty for any explanation to avoid possible misinterpretation. ETA: which I had asked for earlier.

If they choose not to reply, that is ok too.

[holothuroidea]

Meh, life isn't fair really. Part of being a member of an outside culture is getting to define it. Once upon a time that was really important to me... not so much anymore though. I just get ranked when they call Good Charlotte a punk band or see kids in Che or anarchy shirts but those kids have no idea who Che Guevara was or what he stood for... or that anarchy is more then getting wasted all the time. Your group did it too, you mentioned a no politics rule. Same basic idea. Who is in, who is out.

I knew a few crusty old punks from that era who still tried to live the ideals, if not the hairstyles. ;) Most of them were some of the most laid back, sweetest people you'd like to meet. Most were happy to see the politics live on, good music was being made and beer was being drunk.

I don't think you were throwing a fit..??? I was thinking of rainbow-girl. It was years ago but it still annoys me. :flower:

This was a while ago but I somehow missed it. I misinterpreted your previous post. No worries. :) It is really annoying that she did that.

[Venefica]

Cultures have borrowed from one another since the dawn on humanity. Many archaeologists think that even before there where a homo sapiens various forms of primitive humans learned from one another. I only see it as positive when groups take ideas, expressions and other cultural elements from other societies. We might be various people, groups, cultures, religions and subcultures but we are all one human race, we should borrow from one another.

[ktani]

I can see this from both sides of the argument, for and against it.

In many ways most cultures are a mix of others simply through contact and trade over centuries.

That does not mean to me however that any culture should be disrespected when it comes to the immitation of certain things, like the Maori tattoos.

There are political issues with this as well, especially when a culture that has had aspects of it "appropriated" has been oppressed.

ETA: The moment one culture has contact with another there are going to be influences like art, language and cultural sharing of stories. Where it gets dicey is when one culture imposes itself on another and takes from the one imposed upon. That does not change the influencing. It has been going on from the beginning of human time.

This is an interesting controversy that has been going on for years, http://www.debunker.com/texts/dogon.html.
"Astronomers Carl Sagan and Ian Ridpath, for example, have suggested that the modern astronomical aspects of the complex Dogon mythology entered the lore only recently, probably shortly before the myths were written down in the 1930s. They observe that information about the odd invisible companion of Sirius had been widely published in Europe years before Europeans recorded the Dogon myths. As anthropologists have known for a long time, primitive tribes have a remarkable talent for absorbing interesting new stories into their traditional mythology."

[Charlotte:)]

As I said in the "Moccasin" thread, I think that wearing clothing/hairstyles from another culture is like saying "I like your culture". :) I have a lot of Northern European ancestory, but I wouldn't be at all offended if someone without any any Northern European ancestory wore a Northern European hairstyle.

[ktani]

Another perspective on hair, - text bolding mine other than title
http://www.aleida.net/salon-en.html
"WHAT IS GOOD HAIR AND BAD HAIR?

In the Dominican Republic, people often refer to pelo malo (“bad hair”) and pelo bueno (“good hair”). Sometimes Americans are upset when they hear these terms, because it seems like people who are more Black or African have “bad hair” and those who are more White or Indian (indigenous) have “good hair”, and therefore it is bad to be African. But a person's race is not so important in the Dominican Republic as it is in the United States; it's just a feature, just part of your look. Almost every Dominican is a mixture, and almost every Dominican has textured hair. To us, “good hair” is hair that is manageable, because we like to change our look (http://www.aleida.net/makeup-en.html), and our hair style is a big part of our look. “Bad hair” is simply harder to manage. But we do it anyway! That's just one reason Dominican women spend so much time in the salon. Of course some Dominican women like to have natural hair too — a puffy Afro, dreadlocks, cornrows, and other styles — but don't kid yourself, that takes work too!"

[ktani]

Cultural sharing can be both positive and enlightening,
http://crawfurd.dk/photos/blackhair.htm
"The Danish hairdressers attending experienced how African hairstyles and fashion often has a deeper meaning than what we are used to in Europe. Besides making a woman look beautiful, the hair and clothes can have a symbolic value and send messages. One hairstyle signalled “go-away-I-am-just-married” while another meant “come-closer-I-am-single”.

[Venefica]

Off course there are things in a given culture, religion and so on which is very unique to that, like for example a Christian Priest's collar which can be confusing and perhaps not right if someone else copies, but for the most part I think copying a style is a way to show respect and that is is a good thing. I actually find it rather annoying when for example some African women get their panties in a bunch over a white woman wearing an African hairstyle or even adopting a style which is not directly African but who have become popular in the black community. Like two ladies I heard who was so upset that they had seen a white woman with big hair and hair extensions. Some ritual dresses and such I can understand that a given culture would not want others to use, but for the most part using another culture's style is a way to show homage to it, nothing else.

Another example on this is that there is a Pagan Youtube user who uses something similar to a Hijab. Now she uses this for two reasons, one is that she is against the sex fixation in modern Western society, she have adopted a more modest dress to show her disgust at that, in addition she do it because the old Pagan cultures usually had women cover their hair. Now most Muslims who comment on her videos are positive to this woman's practice, but a few is enraged that this woman is somehow stealing their style from them, which I find to be stupid. The Pagan Youtuber do not say a bad word about Islam, she covers her head due to annoyance over the sex fixation in modern society and due to respect towards those that practiced the religions modern Neo Paganism is based on. Islam do not own the practice for women to cover their heads, and there is nothing in their scriptures which say it is wrong for a non Muslim to dress modestly.

[ktani]

As I said in the "Moccasin" thread, I think that wearing clothing/hairstyles from another culture is like saying "I like your culture". :) I have a lot of Northern European ancestory, but I wouldn't be at all offended if someone without any any Northern European ancestory wore a Northern European hairstyle.

I just read that thread. It is very interesting.

There is still prejudice everywhere in the world today and there is still oppression in some cases. I live in a county renowned for its cultural diversity. By law, no inequality exists between peoples (the indigenous people also have specific rights that were granted them that still exist - granted mind you after they were horrendously oppressed and had their culture restricted, their children stolen and more and they still battle land rights issues). ETA: There have been well publicised instances of the practice of the laws being unequal or flagrantly prejudiced, against the natives.

All of that said I support any group's attitude re "appropiation" on principle.

That does not mean I would not buy and wear real moccasins from a native vendor, cover my head when entering a religious building if appropriate (it is in the Jewish religion for women as well as men), or if I simply want to do so.

As for mixing cultures, everyone who did not belong to the groups that invented them, would have to give up radios, cell phones, computers, automobiles, and much more.

When I have said "if one could go back in time and the natives had not been generous ETA: at first, or confused by their mythology (South America and the myth of the return of the bearded one, which may not be a myth) North and South America would be very different.

The response to that is invariably the same, "well you would not be here". That is not meant as racist. It is true. My parents met by accident (specific circumstances).

Both continents would most likely have been conquered in any case. It just would have taken longer. And from archeological evidence, there was not one migration of ETA: the first humans to the Americas but at least three and only the strongest survived encounters with the others. It was the way of humans that far back.

The "Sins of the father" do not apply unless we ourselves perpetuate them today.

[MandyBeth]

For me, it's not, but I am falling into a local stereotype. Woman over 25, hair past shoulders - hyper conservative religious or a Democrat. Then again, that's what I see here also.

[holothuroidea]

For me, it's not, but I am falling into a local stereotype. Woman over 25, hair past shoulders - hyper conservative religious or a Democrat. Then again, that's what I see here also.

This bothers me just a little bit. I understand that people have stereotypes and that they're useful for our brains to organize so much cultural information. However, I think they are best left unsaid.

Maybe I'm sensitive because I just started growing my hair out at 25 and I feel like I really don't need to give people another reason to think I'm a democrat when I am very much apolitical and don't want to be associated with either party.

[ktani]

This bothers me just a little bit. I understand that people have stereotypes and that they're useful for our brains to organize so much cultural information. However, I think they are best left unsaid.

Maybe I'm sensitive because I just started growing my hair out at 25 and I feel like I really don't need to give people another reason to think I'm a democrat when I am very much apolitical and don't want to be associated with either party.

Just my personal observation. When one is heavily into whatever, like politics for example, many things can be seen from that particular perspective, which makes the perspective skewed in that direction.

The same would apply to the position of an oppressed minority.

Is the perspective valid?

Everyone's perspective is in the sense of it being their opinion. Right or wrong happens depending on how it is acted out.

That is how I see it.

I am considerably over 25, lol.

I have hair until I trim it back again, currently passed waist, pulled down. There are those who believe that a woman past 40? should have "sensible" hair only of or at a certain length.

I admit I have wondered about that at times. However, aside from the fact that I do not look or sound or act my age whatever that means, I have come to realize that I am keeping my hair long for me and it looks good on me long.

So, too bad if that is seen by others as something else.

[holothuroidea]

...So, too bad if that is seen by others as something else.

I agree to an extent. I don't mind if people stereotype me as long as they keep in to themselves, otherwise it's spreading things around that are not necessarily true.

I stereotype people all the time. We all do, it's just simply how our brains work. However, I would not ever express these stereotypes because then they become instantly unhelpful for both me and the person to whom it refers.

For example, if I am alone at night in a dark parking lot and there is a lone male leaning up against his car in my head I am going to type this guy as a creeper and stay far away from him. However, the instant I say, "Hey, are you some kind of creep?" well then now I might be in trouble for a lot of reasons, or maybe he's just waiting for his wife to come out of a store and I insulted someone for no reason. Extreme example but you get my drift.

[ktani]

I agree to an extent. I don't mind if people stereotype me as long as they keep in to themselves, otherwise it's spreading things around that are not necessarily true.

I stereotype people all the time. We all do, it's just simply how our brains work. However, I would not ever express these stereotypes because then they become instantly unhelpful for both me and the person to whom it refers.

For example, if I am alone at night in a dark parking lot and there is a lone male leaning up against his car in my head I am going to type this guy as a creeper and stay far away from him. However, the instant I say, "Hey, are you some kind of creep?" well then now I might be in trouble for a lot of reasons, or maybe he's just waiting for his wife to come out of a store and I insulted someone for no reason. Extreme example but you get my drift.

I do indeed. It is my personal rule when out "not to incite a potential psychopath".

You cannot avoid others stereotyping you. You can only control your actions and be wise in how you control them.

Others voiced opinions can be hurful. Unfortunately, we cannot control that or where the individuals are located, be it online, at work or within a personal relationship. However, anyone can realize that verbal abuse and lack of judgement exists and for the anonymous opinions or strangers in real life we encounter who are thoughtless or worse, ignore them.

ETA: However, sometimes a stand can be taken against such opinions, under certain circumstances.

[truepeacenik]

:bigeyes:

Where on earth are you getting those stereotypes from? That is extreme, and frankly, a little frightening.

ETA: It's also upsetting to me that the stereotypes you mention are very gender-polarizing. What about a blonde male or a ginger female? I have no idea where your head is at when you say that these things are actual stereotypes that exist. They seem made-up to me.

I grew up with those examples as dumb blondes, brainy brunettes and temperamental red heads, so what Eric said rings for me.
They were typically applied to women, therefore all were objectified and sexualized.

To ktani's original question, I know plenty of people that use hairstyle to fit in a subculture based on politics, faith, sexual or gender expression.

Part of my attachment to my hair is the old freak flag.
I am a folkie, leftist, anti nukes tree, bunny and whale hugger who supports gay marriage and adoptions. I work for a community solar organization and it's sister company.

I still hesitate around aggressive bald people. I was beaten in the 80s by neo-Nazi skinheads. I lost part of my hearing from that incident.
I also can't stand seeing red laces in Doc Martins.

Plenty of folks in Oakland have Rasta dreads. Some actually *are* Rasta.

[holothuroidea]

I grew up with those examples as dumb blondes, brainy brunettes and temperamental red heads, so what Eric said rings for me.
They were typically applied to women, therefore all were objectified and sexualized.

I can find at least 10 reasons to become enraged at this and I am going to choose to ignore all of them.

...:cheese:

[ktani]

I can find at least 10 reasons to become enraged at this and I am going to choose to ignore all of them.

...:cheese:


I can find only one that possibly applies to all and I will name it - mysogyny (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny)

[MinderMutsig]

It don't mind the Hilter haircuts.. I just don't like that they are calling it that. However, don't most people know what that haircut is without having to have it described? We've just learned to associate that style with a terrible time in history. Its like women asking for the "Rachel" or the Farrah Fawcet.
I've never heard that particular style described as a Hitler Youth haircut and never heard of a Hitler Youth haircut in general. I had to google it and to my surprise it is just a popular hairstyle for men in Europe in the 30's/40's. There is nothing Hitler Youth about it. :confused:

My grandfathers had that haircut. My uncle had that haircut as a kid and so did my dad and I can assure you none of them were part of the Hitler Youth or any other nazi organization. Every single European young man I've ever seen in pictures from that time period had that haircut. The hairstyle is not a result from the Hitler Youth. The only reason a lot of boys and young men in the Hitler Youth had that haircut is because it was a popular hairstyle worn by everyone including boys and young men in the Hitler Youth. It is no more connected to the Hitler Youth than braids or pin curls are for girls.

It's strange for me to see that apparently there is a connection between the two from a US perspective.

[Copasetic]

Absolutely I think the way I wear my hair is a political statement. I don't feel like this is the best place to address why and how, though. But yes, yes it is.

[ktani]

Absolutely I think the way I wear my hair is a political statement. I don't feel like this is the best place to address why and how, though. But yes, yes it is.

You can say as little or as much as you want to here on the topic, no questions asked (well I did once for clarification and got no reply but that is fine with me, lol.)

[MandyBeth]

I was 28 when I started growing my hair out, didn't notice the stereotype before. But now I get comments in public near daily that since I can't be Christian - not true in the least - my hair means I am a Dem. Which I am. Shrugh, now I see that locally

[ktani]

I was 28 when I started growing my hair out, didn't notice the stereotype before. But now I get comments in public near daily that since I can't be Christian - not true in the least - my hair means I am a Dem. Which I am. Shrugh, now I see that locally

If I remember correctly you are active in politics. It makes sense to me that those around you in polictics or active in it like to categorize people into camps by their standards.

It makes them feel better to know where someone stands whether they are completely right or not. ETA:2 And it may be a way of "polling" especially when they make comments and whether you reply to them or not.

And I am guessing by what you say that Republican women in that group sport shorter hair?

ETA: I know, I am asking a question again, lol.

[squiggyflop]

ok i completely misunderstood the question i will edit in a proper response

eta: yes it can sometimes be a political statement.. other times its just to look cool/pretty..

sorta like how its become popular to wear false eyeglasses to look smart at job interviews around here.. dont get me wrong, strictly speaking people with bad eyesight are statistically more likely to have higher than normal IQ's but thats no reason to give in and pretend to have bad eyes to look as smart as you know you are already.

sometimes people just LOVE something and wanna express it..

[ktani]

There is no right or wrong way to interpret the question. That is what this is all about, one's individual perceptions.

[MandyBeth]

I know more adult women - over 25 - with shoulder length or shorter hair here, no matter which party. I get the comments more outside of work, like at Target in a skirt and sweater, nothing broadcasting my views.

[Nix]

Wow, I have learned much from this thread. I had no idea that longer hair was linked to Democratic party affiliation

[ktani]

I know more adult women - over 25 - with shoulder length or shorter hair here, no matter which party. I get the comments more outside of work, like at Target in a skirt and sweater, nothing broadcasting my views.

I find that fascinating. Thank you for replying to my question. I have never had a comment to me about my hair length and politics or religion, ever.

[Piyo]

There aren't any hairstyles I associate with politics, or even religion. I know some religions don't cut their hair, but it's not the first thing I think of when I see long hair.

In regards to race:

I sometimes have "hair talk" some of my coworkers who like to keep their hair in their natural afro state. They told me why a lot of women relax their hair, and the stigma that goes along with keeping hair kinky/curly. I never thought about how having an afro might seem less professional, it is unfortunate it's looked at that way, because I think it's beautiful.

Whenever I see a women with an afro, I always feel like it's an appealing display of confidence, something that not a lot of people can pull off. It seems model-esque to me.

Ultra blonde hair always strikes me as very nordic.

[squiggyflop]

Wow, I have learned much from this thread. I had no idea that longer hair was linked to Democratic party affiliation

it depends on the area of the country.. here long hair tends to be associated with the religious right (republicans)..

[kitschy]

it depends on the area of the country.. here long hair tends to be associated with the religious right (republicans)..

That would be the case in my area as well. Democrat women have short sporty hairstyles, Conservative Republican women are more likely to have long traditional hair.

[holothuroidea]

Well on the one hand you've got lazy liberal women who can't be bothered with hygiene or haircuts OR they are sticking it to the man.. so they are your long haired democrats.

And then on the other hand you have the "traditional" model of a woman who doesn't cut her hair because long hair is classically feminine OR the men tell them not to OR they believe God tells them not to OR they want to identify themselves with their religious group... so they are your long haired republicans.

Can you really just hear my eyes rolling right out of their sockets? Oh, geez, there they go. Now I'm blind. At least now I can't stereotype people anymore.

Sorry guys, couldn't help it. The sarcasm just kind of exploded.

[ktani]

Well on the one hand you've got lazy liberal women who can't be bothered with hygiene or haircuts OR they are sticking it to the man.. so they are your long haired democrats.

And then on the other hand you have the "traditional" model of a woman who doesn't cut her hair because long hair is classically feminine OR the men tell them not to OR they believe God tells them not to OR they want to identify themselves with their religious group... so they are your long haired republicans.

Can you really just hear my eyes rolling right out of their sockets? Oh, geez, there they go. Now I'm blind. At least now I can't stereotype people anymore.

Sorry guys, couldn't help it. The sarcasm just kind of exploded.

Ha, love it except for the liberal hygeine comment, lol. I am liberal (small L), long haired and definitely into hygeine. That never made it into this yet. I am not offended though. I still find your post humorous.

[holothuroidea]

Ha, love it except for the liberal hygeine comment, lol. I am liberal (small L), long haired and definitely into hygeine. That never made it into this yet. I am not offended though. I still find your post humorous.

Thank you, it was supposed to be funny. I know liberals are not lazy about hygiene, I was just trying to illustrate how ridiculous stereotypes can be.

I really think we should all just keep them to ourselves!

[ktani]

Thank you, it was supposed to be funny. I know liberals are not lazy about hygiene, I was just trying to illustrate how ridiculous stereotypes can be.

I really think we should all just keep them to ourselves!

Personally, I cannot see how anyone could not see the humour in your post. ETA: Us Canadians spell humor humour by the way, eh, lol.

Stereotypes can be dangerous at worst, ludicrous at best, and funny as you have shown.

[ktani]

I still find this funny, from an old thread I started on antique combs, http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~sousa/COMB.html.

[taimatsuko]

I still find this funny, from an old thread I started on antique combs, http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~sousa/COMB.html (http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/%7Esousa/COMB.html).

Major lols! That lost passage was so funny! It seems like it should be in Life of Brian somewhere.

Hmmmm.... If heaven is perfect hair I might need to revisit church.... :hmm:

[ktani]

Major lols! That lost passage was so funny! It seems like it should be in Life of Brian somewhere.

Hmmmm.... If heaven is perfect hair I might need to revisit church.... :hmm:

I am glad you liked it. I had forgotten about it and decided to reshare it, lol.

[slz]

I really think we should all just keep them to ourselves!
And why ? There seems to be no doubt for anyone in this thread about "how ridiculous stereotypes can be" but it looks like you're constantly misunderstanding the "stating something we observe" with "endorsing it", which leads to you being seemingly all ruffled up which is quite funny actually because you seem to be alone in your boat and nobody follows or gets offended because it's not the way it was intended at all ! Please take a step back and enjoy some distance because I'm pretty sure that's how everybody means it here, with distance and not stating their own prejudices at all :D !

[ktani]

I really think we should all just keep them to ourselves!

This is most interesting to me here. It is not only how different people answer the question but how the answers are interpreted by others.

I saw this comment as "If you do stereotype people keep it to yourself." (as in real life) not specific to this thread.

[holothuroidea]

And why ? There seems to be no doubt for anyone in this thread about "how ridiculous stereotypes can be" but it looks like you're constantly misunderstanding the "stating something we observe" with "endorsing it", which leads to you being seemingly all ruffled up which is quite funny actually because you seem to be alone in your boat and nobody follows or gets offended because it's not the way it was intended at all ! Please take a step back and enjoy some distance because I'm pretty sure that's how everybody means it here, with distance and not stating their own prejudices at all :D !

Well I was just trying to be funny, so I guess I accomplished that! I don't think anyone is endorsing the stereotypes here, I'm not misunderstanding. I was just making a joke, hyperbole usually works for that.

You are not the first member to misinterpreted my tone as being angry or offended. I'll work on that but in the mean time please just accept that it is my sense of humor. :cheese:


This is most interesting to me here. It is not only how different people answer the question but how the answers are interpreted by others.

I saw this comment as "If you do stereotype people keep it to yourself." (as in real life) not specific to this thread.

Yes that is indeed how I meant it, thank you. I was also being a little tongue in cheek. If the thread really upset me I would simply choose not to participate.

[Alun]

I grew up with those examples as dumb blondes, brainy brunettes and temperamental red heads, so what Eric said rings for me.
They were typically applied to women, therefore all were objectified and sexualized.

To ktani's original question, I know plenty of people that use hairstyle to fit in a subculture based on politics, faith, sexual or gender expression.

Part of my attachment to my hair is the old freak flag.
I am a folkie, leftist, anti nukes tree, bunny and whale hugger who supports gay marriage and adoptions. I work for a community solar organization and it's sister company.

I still hesitate around aggressive bald people. I was beaten in the 80s by neo-Nazi skinheads. I lost part of my hearing from that incident.
I also can't stand seeing red laces in Doc Martins.

Plenty of folks in Oakland have Rasta dreads. Some actually *are* Rasta.

It's so odd that people used to characterise women's personalities by the color of their hair, given that if they dyed it they would apparently become another personality type! It may still happen a bit, but much less than it used to. OTOH, I think that there is some truth in saying that redheads have hot tempers, and that is without reference to gender.

Keep your freak flag flying!

Sorry to hear what happened. I can't honestly say I've been attacked by any skinheads, just menaced by them! Punks, yes, a group of punks chased me down the street once just for having long hair, and yet it is skinheads that I find frightening. When I first came to the US I would cross the street and/or check the positions of the exits when I saw a crewcut, because at the time in the UK only skinheads had them. Since then, shaved heads have become fashionable on both sides of the pond, which I will never understand if I live to be 100.

[melusine963]

I don't consider it a statement, personally, but plenty of other people do! I have waist-length hair and my friend is classic. Some random guy once asked us if we were members of a cult. We were in Dunkin Donuts at the time, so my friend joked that they'd let us out to buy supplies.

[ladyshep]

I see my hair and my daughter's hair part of our heritage.

[heidi w.]

Personally, the health of the hair appeals to me the most. Frankly, I loathe the stringy, "messy" look that seems to popular among some stars.

I don't consider hair as a statement of race, religion or anything else. Everyone is entitled to wear (or not) their hair as they please.

While I am aware that hair length or shortness or style may mean something to people, and I am certainly aware of political statements made concerning hair choices, for me, at this point, I simply view it mostly as a personal preference. Although, like Madora, I don't like crappy hair very much. I see a lot of outdated and crappy hair where I currently reside. But I also never, ever comment because these people didn't ask for my opinion. Also, a lot of people are poor and can no longer afford to take care of their hair well. Even me, I am having a problem affording shampoo and conditioner. I'm one of the poor people.

heidi w.

[elbow chic]

I think sometimes people can use their hair, or their clothes, or their body language, to "say" something about themselves. And the same people can get mad and self-righteous when someone notices what they are "saying."

Or sometimes people like to use their physical selves to "say" one thing when they actually mean another, because it's just fun to mess with people like that.

Or sometimes you put on a show and wait to see who sees PAST the show and looks at your deeper self.

I try not to make assumptions anymore, as I have at various times done all the above. ;)
Human beings are a complicated kind of critter, that's all I know at this point.