Long hair and psychic abilities

[darkrose]

Ok, so I have heard that long hair can help increase psychic abilities. A medium I know, grew her her long because it helped her to "contact the other side "? I'm not sure if there is such a thing as being psychic, but I would like to know your thoughts on it. :)

[longhairedlady]

haha I dont know if thats true but I have psychic dreams alot.

[ArienEllariel]

I think it's a bunch of poopoo but then again, I don't believe in such things. :p

[darkrose]

haha I dont know if thats true but I have psychic dreams alot.

Really? That's so cool to have psychic dreams.

[PaganPriestess]

Not sure about the length of hair, but in Wicca it is a predominant "rule" that when you are working magick you should not have your hair tied up in any way (it should be down and flowing, not braided etc) or it will "tie up the magic".

[longhairedlady]

Really? That's so cool to have psychic dreams.

My dad and my nephew also do too! I always dream about big events before they happen. My nephew is only 5 and it seems to have recently started with him.

[PaganPriestess]

I often have psychic dreams as well. I also have a tendency to dream about things my close friends or family are experiencing. For example, during a daytime nap I had a dream that my best friend and I were singing a song together. When I woke up I sent him a text message about it. He said he had just been singing that exact same song along with the radio in his car.

[longhairedlady]

I often have psychic dreams as well. I also have a tendency to dream about things my close friends or family are experiencing. For example, during a daytime nap I had a dream that my best friend and I were singing a song together. When I woke up I sent him a text message about it. He said he had just been singing that exact same song along with the radio in his car.

Its so weird isnt it?! I am always amazed everytime it happens.

[ArienEllariel]

I dream and/or have feelings about things before they happen but I always attribute it to God preparing me for whatever it is. Interesting to hear others ideas on dreams, etc. :)

[longhairedlady]

I dream and/or have feelings about things before they happen but I always attribute it to God preparing me for whatever it is. Interesting to hear others ideas on dreams, etc. :)

I also feel it is from God. I like your reasoning for why it happens.

[owlathena]

Ooh interesting! I can't wait to get my psychic abilities!

I have deja vu sometimes. I'll feel like I dreamed the exact situation before but didn't remember the dream until I was in the situation again. Or I'll randomly remember a dream I had several years ago or when I was little. :shrug:

[PaganPriestess]

I feel they are from God/Goddess as well. And I believe "deja vu" are actually markers that let you know you are on the correct path.

[MonaMayfair]

Well I've had quite a few paranormal experiences and have been told by several psychics that I have psychic abilities (but maybe they say that to everyone, LOL..)

It seems odd to me that ones hair length could have any connection to this though...

[Hairizona]

Your DNA memory is contained in your spine; that is, your knowledge of the past. Any hair length that is below the neck and touching the back overrides the brain's ability to interfere and shut down this old genetic memory.
Animals sense and communicate through their hair, which covers their bodies completely. Humans have the hair on their heads. There is a reason why people are encouraged at all levels to cut their hair. For the same reasons why wearing the hair up and restricted via hairstyles and head coverings impedes this ability, and why men are pressured to keep their hair short.

[Annibelle]

Your DNA memory is contained in your spine; that is, your knowledge of the past. Any hair length that is below the neck and touching the back overrides the brain's ability to interfere and shut down this old genetic memory.
Animals sense and communicate through their hair, which covers their bodies completely. Humans have the hair on their heads. There is a reason why people are encouraged at all levels to cut their hair. For the same reasons why wearing the hair up and restricted via hairstyles and head coverings impedes this ability, and why men are pressured to keep their hair short.

That's a really neat perspective!

I would think that the connection between psychic abilities and long hair might have less to do with the hair than we think. Maybe people who are psychic are simply more in-tune with their bodies/souls, and that's also why they happen to grow long hair. SO's mother did psychic work for the FBI (finding missing people, etc.) and always had very short hair. SO has minor psychic abilities and has very long hair--- but his abilities have been the same all his life, whether he had short hair or long. His DD (autistic) has predicted deaths before (accurately) and she's always had short hair.

[andrea1982]

I'm not sure if this article is true, but I certainly found it interesting

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/234783-The-Truth-About-Hair-and-Why-Indians-Would-Keep-Their-Hair-Long

[ScorpioMouse]

This definitely hasn't been the case for me. This has been an intense year for me, psychic stuff-wise, and I've been at pixie length since March. I can remember another intense year as well when I was growing up, fourteen or fifteen I think, and I went to pixie that year, too.

I think it's all individual, though - maybe the self-acceptance that comes along with growing your hair long is what's really improving people's experiences. Personally, hacking it all off was a sign of liberation/not caring what people think, so that worked for me.

[Orangerthanred]

I don't think psychic stuff is real, sorry.

[Hairizona]

Interesting article.........
Facial hair, as in a beard on a male serves a different purpose than hair on the head, as does hair distributed on the body in humans.
Cats, long associated with witches and psychics(witches with their long unbound hair) have come to be so because cats have nervous systems exactly like that of humans. The apparent "fore knowledge" associated with eccentrics observed by the fearful townfolk/ villagers of the past created a scenario that these individuals must have some mysterious "supernatural powers", when in fact, they were in touch with old genetic memories (equals knowledge of the past that most everyone else is completely out of touch with). Cats can very easily sense things in their environment. Three or more cats in the area greatly enhances this awareness. Couple this with long, unbound hair and a sensitive individual who tends to be "eccentric" ie does not follow the crowd, and it is a recipe for distrust and fear on the negative side.

[darkrose]

I'm not sure if this article is true, but I certainly found it interesting

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/234783-The-Truth-About-Hair-and-Why-Indians-Would-Keep-Their-Hair-Long

That is very interesting, thanks for posting !:)

[Peter]

Ok, so I have heard that long hair can help increase psychic abilities. A medium I know, grew her her long because it helped her to "contact the other side "? I'm not sure if there is such a thing as being psychic, but I would like to know your thoughts on it. :)
Nope, no such thing as being psychic.

[longhairedlady]

I don't think psychic stuff is real, sorry.

Lots of people think this way. I guess everyone cant be gifted with the same gifts. Its hard to believe in things we cant explain.

[Rowan1980]

I believe there are some people who can perceive more than your average person, but I've never heard of it being tied to hair length. I've had a couple of uncanny dreams in my time, but my hair was at differing lengths. **shrugs**

[Orangerthanred]

Nope, no such thing as being psychic.

^ This is the truth.

[Annibelle]

Nope, no such thing as being psychic.

Wow, that's a pretty definitive answer. So are people who believe they're experiencing those things lying or just stupid?

[Freckled.Thing]

I don't believe in any of that stuff either, but to each his/her own.

I definitely don't think the people posting about their experiences are lying, and I don't think they're stupid, either. I just think they're being tricked by number of factors, such as confirmation bias and the file-drawer effect.

People are free to believe whatever they want, and this should be a safe venue for people on either side. (as long as it's somehow about hair. :p:p)

[Annibelle]

I don't believe in any of that stuff either, but to each his/her own.

I definitely don't think the people posting about their experiences are lying, and I don't think they're stupid, either. I just think they're being tricked by number of factors, such as confirmation bias and the file-drawer effect.

People are free to believe whatever they want, and this should be a safe venue for people on either side. (as long as it's somehow about hair. :p:p)

It's one thing to say you don't BELIEVE it's true; it's quite another to say it's DEFINITELY not true. :)

[longhairedlady]

Nope, no such thing as being psychic.

Wow, I guess that settles everything then. :rolleyes:

[longhairedlady]

I don't believe in any of that stuff either, but to each his/her own.

I definitely don't think the people posting about their experiences are lying, and I don't think they're stupid, either. I just think they're being tricked by number of factors, such as confirmation bias and the file-drawer effect.

People are free to believe whatever they want, and this should be a safe venue for people on either side. (as long as it's somehow about hair. :p:p)

I respect your opinion, but I would like to clarify that I am not so weak minded that I am somehow being tricked by whatever you are referring too. There is no confusing having a very clear concise detailed dream and then it happening very shortly after that.

[Annibelle]

I respect your opinion, but I would like to clarify that I am not so weak minded that I am somehow being tricked by whatever you are referring too. There is no confusing having a very clear concise detailed dream and then it happening very shortly after that.

I, too, would like to believe that I'm not being tricked. I don't have psychic abilities-- or, at least, I try not to channel any because they scare me-- but DSD does. She is autistic and very shy. When she was 12-ish, she and SO went into a little antique shop and met the owner. DSD, who never talked to a stranger in her life, ran up to the woman, hugged her, and began bawling and begging her "not to go away" and telling her how much she "loved" her.

That itself seemed pretty strange. What was even stranger was that, that very night, the shop owner was abducted by her ex-husband as she left the shop. He chopped her into pieces with an ax while she was still alive.

Could it be a coincidence? Sure. Could DSD simply be picking up on a sense of fear the shop owner felt? Unlikely-- the woman hadn't heard from her ex in years. DSD couldn't express to us why she reacted this way, but she did, and I really believe that it meant something. There's also a house in my town that, for some reason she can't express, she's afraid of. No one has ever told her that there was a (different) gruesome murder that happened in that house.

[ravenreed]

Well, I am not Wiccan, but I am Pagan. I have my hair up all the time. It doesn't negatively affect anything I do and neither does my hair length. :magic:

As for whether psychics are real or not, I tend to approach things in a scientific fashion, but I have had experience (or visions) that cannot be scientifically explained at this time. I am aware of the tricks our minds play on us, being very selective filterers of information, but when you randomly 'see' someone's face turn into a skull and they pass away that evening, it is pretty hard to come up with any explanation that would satisfy. Sometimes things just happen and we don't know why...


Not sure about the length of hair, but in Wicca it is a predominant "rule" that when you are working magick you should not have your hair tied up in any way (it should be down and flowing, not braided etc) or it will "tie up the magic".

[HumanBean]

It's not a question of being weak minded. It's hard to be an excellent researcher/scientist, they get confused by bias error and other faulty errors as well. That's why research papers in scientific journals are peer reviewed; the peers are looking for faults in the study's design.

True science has no bias, no agenda, other than to seek the truth. As you undoubtedly know, the U.S. government spent years trying to see if extra sensory abilities were real, and came to the conclusion that there was no evidence that they were. So either you think 1) all their methods were flawed, or 2) they did find something but are hiding the truth from us, or 3) psychic abilities are not real.

That's not to say that there aren't weird and wonderful things are brains CAN do that science has detailed. For example, lucid dreams are a real phenomenon.

[HairFaerie]

Sorry, when I can walk up to people and virtually read them like a book and they CONFIRM it, I highly doubt they or myself are being tricked or experiencing the "file drawer" effect.

Some people have the ability to sense things, some people don't (or they have blocked it off as a defense mechanism for some reason). You would be very surprised what you can know about people/things just by paying attention, watching body language, listening to verbal inflections. Call it psychic, call it intuition, call it whatever you want. It is very real. Just because someone hasn't experienced it, doesn't make it non existent! Start paying attention and you would be shocked to know that we are ALL psychic! Most people avoid it and "turn it off" by not paying attention to others and distracting themselves with themselves.

As far as hair affecting that ability....I have been almost bald and have also had TBL hair (as a child) - the ability is still there no matter what.

[coffinhert]

Sookie Stackhouse is telepathic and her hair is only APL.

[Amber_Maiden]

Sorry, when I can walk up to people and virtually read them like a book and they CONFIRM it, I highly doubt they or myself are being tricked or experiencing the "file drawer" effect.

Some people have the ability to sense things, some people don't (or they have blocked it off as a defense mechanism for some reason). You would be very surprised what you can know about people/things just by paying attention, watching body language, listening to verbal inflections. Call it psychic, call it intuition, call it whatever you want. It is very real. Just because someone hasn't experienced it, doesn't make it non existent! Start paying attention and you would be shocked to know that we are ALL psychic! Most people avoid it and "turn it off" by not paying attention to others and distracting themselves with themselves.

As far as hair affecting that ability....I have been almost bald and have also had TBL hair (as a child) - the ability is still there no matter what.


I agree, it's the same deal with me. Up until I was 13 I had buzz cut short hair, and my abilities were still there.

[BrennalaRosa]

I wear my hair up nearly all the time, and I practice magic(k). I've never noticed any difference in my abilities. But, I do choose to let my hair down for special workings, more or less to get in touch with my wilder side.

[Peter]

Wow, that's a pretty definitive answer. So are people who believe they're experiencing those things lying or just stupid?Neither, just particularly vulnerable to wishful thinking and a slew of cognitive biases. I'm not calling anyone here stupid or a liar. Psychics that use their "powers" for financial gain, on the other hand... liars, every last one of them.

It's one thing to say you don't BELIEVE it's true; it's quite another to say it's DEFINITELY not true. :)My position isn't set in stone, and I'm not saying it's impossible... just that I have as much reason to believe in psychics as I do in unicorns and bogeymen. Personal anecdotes are terribly unconvincing, and I will continue to say it's not true until someone demonstrates psychic abilities under reasonable experimental conditions.

I respect your opinion, but I would like to clarify that I am not so weak minded that I am somehow being tricked by whatever you are referring too. There is no confusing having a very clear concise detailed dream and then it happening very shortly after that.Everyone thinks they're above cognitive biases. Being fooled by your own brain is not a sign of weak-mindedness. I've experienced déjà vu many times as well - I'm in a certain situation, and I swear that I'd seen the exact same thing in a recent dream. Given what I know about things like memory construction, I consider it far more likely that I've fallen victim to some kind of mental misconception.

In closing: James Randi. That is all. I'm not going to continue debating this in the Mane Forum (somewhere else is fine with me though).

[longhairedlady]

Everyone thinks they're above cognitive biases. Being fooled by your own brain is not a sign of weak-mindedness. I've experienced déjà vu many times as well - I'm in a certain situation, and I swear that I'd seen the exact same thing in a recent dream. Given what I know about things like memory construction, I consider it far more likely that I've fallen victim to some kind of mental misconception.

What I experience is not deja vu. I have a dream. I tell family about said dream. Dream comes true shortly thereafter. :) I think everyone is capable, they just tune it out. I can see how it would be a little frightening to some.

[sally_neuf]

Annibelle: Your history gave me goosebumps! :( what a experience!

This is very interesting, I haven't ever heard something like this. But hair does has a kind of "spiritual" thing since ancient times (Samson came to mind)

Santeria practicants shave their heads when they get their Saint

Woman cover their hairs in different religions

And now the Wicca I didn't knew about!
I'm very open-minded about this kind of things, and find this very interesting :)

[princessp]

Your DNA memory is contained in your spine; that is, your knowledge of the past. Any hair length that is below the neck and touching the back overrides the brain's ability to interfere and shut down this old genetic memory.
Animals sense and communicate through their hair, which covers their bodies completely. Humans have the hair on their heads. There is a reason why people are encouraged at all levels to cut their hair. For the same reasons why wearing the hair up and restricted via hairstyles and head coverings impedes this ability, and why men are pressured to keep their hair short.

Wow I don't know if that is true but that is so awesomely interesting that I am going to adopt that thinking either way. So next time I'm faced with a "what should I do" moment I am going to let my hair down to see if I gain any clarity.

ETA:
Peter My position isn't set in stone, and I'm not saying it's impossible... just that I have as much reason to believe in psychics as I do in unicorns and bogeymen. Personal anecdotes are terribly unconvincing, and I will continue to say it's not true until someone demonstrates psychic abilities under reasonable experimental conditions.
And I also believe in unicorns, because well why not? I have a very active fantastic fantasy world in my mind. :) I get what you are saying Peter, but as long as there is no harm done sometimes believing in "magic" makes the world a way more interesting place.

[ravenreed]

All I can say is at this point and time, we might not have the capacity to scientifically study whether certain 'supernatural' things are real. (I don't believe that they are 'super' natural at all, just inexplicable at this time) There have been times in the history of science when scientists suspected something was out there based on the behaviors of what objects we could detect, but didn't have the ability to confirm or deny it until much later. The history of the planet/not-planet Pluto comes to mind.

But even given that it might all be my subconscious working on specific cues in my environment, that is pretty neat too. Apparently I have a very sensitive subconscious if it can pick up on things like it does. A lot of the magic work I do has very little to do with the outside world and much more to do with reprogramming my subconscious to work on what I feel it needs to. FWIW, I don't need to justify my experiences with anyone and I am aware of James Randi. :)


Neither, just particularly vulnerable to wishful thinking and a slew of cognitive biases. I'm not calling anyone here stupid or a liar. Psychics that use their "powers" for financial gain, on the other hand... liars, every last one of them.
My position isn't set in stone, and I'm not saying it's impossible... just that I have as much reason to believe in psychics as I do in unicorns and bogeymen. Personal anecdotes are terribly unconvincing, and I will continue to say it's not true until someone demonstrates psychic abilities under reasonable experimental conditions.
Everyone thinks they're above cognitive biases. Being fooled by your own brain is not a sign of weak-mindedness. I've experienced déjà vu many times as well - I'm in a certain situation, and I swear that I'd seen the exact same thing in a recent dream. Given what I know about things like memory construction, I consider it far more likely that I've fallen victim to some kind of mental misconception.

In closing: James Randi. That is all. I'm not going to continue debating this in the Mane Forum (somewhere else is fine with me though).

[Hairizona]

The"psychic capabilities" that are being talked about here have absolutely nothing to do with old DNA memories that are stored in the spine. These old DNA memories/ knowledge are in fact equal to "intuition". Intuition does not come from the brain; what you learn and experience in this lifetime is stored in the brain. What you store in the spine comes from the past and is involved with the particular age of your DNA; some have old and some have very old DNA. That does not mean you can access it. The structure called your "medulla" usually gets in the way of that. The bypassing of that to access old memories/knowledge/=wisdom comes from regularily wearing the hair down and unobstructed by braids, barettes, headcoverings, or cutting it above the shoulders etc. Does that mean you can never wear your hair up or in hair updos? No!
Any books or courses you take are generally paid for; that is, you are paying your "tuition" for knowledge; not the same as "intuition", which cannot be bought or gained in this lifetime.

For Peter:
In science theories are based upon evidence and a preponderance of circumstantial evidence. Many things that science has established do indeed exist have never been seen by anybody.

And, James Randi has an agenda that is not known to you.

[VikingVampChick]

The way I see it, there's no proof one way or the other, so it's still possible.

[Rowan1980]

Eh, I used to wear my hair back when I practiced Wicca all the time. Nothing quite kills the mood AND overpowers incense than the smell of hair singed from a candle's flame. :p

[MungoMania]

Native Americans strike me as spirtual people in tune with mother earth and the spirit world. They frequently choose to wear long flowing hair. Maybe it is possible there's a connection between long hair and spirituality but I'm not sure if that would include precognition.

[Maraz]

Okay, hair, I command you to tell me next week's winning lottery numbers!

And then I will buy you some very expensive hair toys, deal?

[PaganPriestess]

Your DNA memory is contained in your spine; that is, your knowledge of the past. Any hair length that is below the neck and touching the back overrides the brain's ability to interfere and shut down this old genetic memory.
Animals sense and communicate through their hair, which covers their bodies completely. Humans have the hair on their heads. There is a reason why people are encouraged at all levels to cut their hair. For the same reasons why wearing the hair up and restricted via hairstyles and head coverings impedes this ability, and why men are pressured to keep their hair short.

I like this idea. Did you read this in a book or just your own observation? I love books about stuff like this, so that's why I ask.

[PaganPriestess]

Well, I am not Wiccan, but I am Pagan. I have my hair up all the time. It doesn't negatively affect anything I do and neither does my hair length. :magic:

As for whether psychics are real or not, I tend to approach things in a scientific fashion, but I have had experience (or visions) that cannot be scientifically explained at this time. I am aware of the tricks our minds play on us, being very selective filterers of information, but when you randomly 'see' someone's face turn into a skull and they pass away that evening, it is pretty hard to come up with any explanation that would satisfy. Sometimes things just happen and we don't know why...

I think I should have used the word "superstition" rather than "rule". You know what I meant though right? I've read it in quite a few books.. not sure how much stock it holds. I do feel a bit more magical with my hair down & free-flowing though! LOL

[PaganPriestess]

Eh, I used to wear my hair back when I practiced Wicca all the time. Nothing quite kills the mood AND overpowers incense than the smell of hair singed from a candle's flame. :p

LOL True dat!

[KwaveT]

People that have psychic abilities are not crazy or looney or whatever else everybody thinks it is. Long hair has nothing to do with this gift. I can't expect everybody to agree with my faith though. I do see prophecy at work every single service at my church. A friend of mine told me that the lord was going to restore the money that was stolen from me by my former pastor. She prayed this for me. Pastor's wife, who operates in gift of prophecy, confirmed this today to me without having any knowledge in the natural of the aforementioned prayer. I see this sort of thing happening every week at our service to others. God will confirm things that he has revealed to you. This gift of prophecy is given by god. The nine gifts of the Spirit are listed in I Corinthians 12:1-11. Verses nine and ten from Amplified version is as follows with bolded portion referring to prophecy:

To another [wonder-working] faith by the same Holy Spirit, to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit; To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.

[swearnsue]

About 30 years ago I dreamed that having hair that is long framing the face and flowing down around the body gave a person powers.

[bluesnowflake]

I don't believe in the whole psychic thing, but if you think it helps you, more power to you.

[MonaMayfair]

Sookie Stackhouse is telepathic and her hair is only APL.

LOL! (But her hair IS much longer in the books (which I think are better than the TV show, though I do watch it...)

[vanity_acefake]

I'd just like to pop in that scientists have studied cats whiskers and have found that they "Divine" with them. They can sense pray away in a field for example, certain whiskers twitch and off they go returning with a freshly hunted rodent. Different whiskers pick up different vibrations.
Sibyl Leek and Doreen Valiante both asserted that long hair helped you pick up on vibrations from other people and your environment.
I have to say that I agree with them.


[Venefica]

Well if you believe in the whole idea about Chi, Prana, life force energy and so on then the body have spent a whole lot of it making your hair, so there would be allot of such energy in your hair, that might help with psychic abilities, all that energy stored up and made physical in your hair.

[jacqueline101]

I think its psyche produced like dreams. Its cool something to believe in.

[Venefica]

I think there is many truths, not just one, and then we pick the truth that fit us the best, so that what is true for me might not be true for you and vice versa. And yes I agree it is cool with something to believe in.

[Bagginslover]

AS I started reading this thread, the scientific part of me said 'poppycock!', but as I kept reading, I remembereda few things that have happened to me personally, which turn that thought on its head.

At the age of 17, I had my palm read. Not by someone at a carnival, or a professional palmist or seer, but an engineering lecturer at my college! His mother had been a palmist, and he'd picked up a few things (but wasn't instruced by her at all). He told me I'd have a son, but that he would die VERY young, and that it would nearly kill me too, at the age of 27. This happened, right age, right sex baby, I almost died giving birth. He told me this 10 years before the event, very specifically.
6 months before I almost died, my eldest brother had a dream. He drempt his wife was pregnant (which she turned out to be) but it wasn't his actual wife inthe dream, it was me, and in the dream there were 2 babies, but by the end of the dream, he had no 'wife', and just one baby. Both his RL wife and I were pregnant together, our due dates just days apart.

Thses experiences, as well as seeing ghosts in my parents house does make me beleiver in the supernatural, even if the more rational, scientific part of me doesn't want me to!

[woodlandnymph]

Wow, I've really enjoyed reading the responses on this topic. Regardless of hair length, in my own life intuition has always played a role in my day to day experiences. Along with logical reasoning, intuition helps paint a clearer broader picture as one travels through life. To me it is a sixth sense that I don't want to ignore.:p

[ktani]

I do believe we all have a natural 6th sense we do not need to use and some people are more gifted than others. However, it has limits.

I have had long hair a long time now and I still cannot predict lottery numbers, lol. I have had "psychic" dreams though and when years ago I could not reach a friend by phone for days, I would concentrate on the person and they would call me within 24 hours, and it worked every time.

[Viscountess]

I have a theory - the reason why a psychic can't pick lottery numbers is because lottery numbers are a new social phenom and not a longstanding part of our human existence.

Births, deaths, babies and friends/family are the continuing thread that binds our generations together.

My theory is that the '6th senses' evolved with us as humans evolved. While we were avoiding sabre toothed tigers, a hightened sense of of awareness was crucial to survival. Knowing if your babies were in distress or needed help was also crucial to survival. We have a lot of inner wisdom that conventional science just can't explain and a lot of our brains are under utilized. One day perhaps science will explain pre-cog dreams, sixth sense and seeing ghosts.

I am a medium also - and I find my hair helps act as an 'antennae' of sorts. When I am working with Native folks (who are proud of their heritage and wear their hair long) its almost as if the collective unconscious of longhairs are working overtime! Its pretty amazing!

Also I had once a very powerful dream - essentially saying "use the gifts for material gain (lottery numbers) and the price you pay will be high". This dream was twenty plus years ago. One of my acquaintances who had a finely honed intuition and excellent cold reading skills used these skills to - lets just say - defraud people, fool people and prey on their insecurities. He died of brain cancer after a long painful battle.

Many truly intuitive people are not necessarily spiritual or use their talents and gifts for the highest good.

Most do. I've only met a handful that dont, including the brain cancer victim.

[holothuroidea]

I don't know about psychic abilities, and precognition seems especially sketchy to me because I can't comprehend sensing something that does not exist. Unless my understanding of temporal relationships is completely flawed, which it very well could be. :)

I do sense things that other people don't, though. My experiences have led me to believe that I am an empath- or at least I haven't found another word that comes close to describing my experience. I'm not satisfied with the current descriptions of empaths though, and a lot of it looks like hooey and a way to sell books. :rolleyes:

I am constantly feeling emotions that are definitely not mine. They are not only irrelevant to my situation, but they feel insincere like they come from outside and not within (hard to describe, sorry), I have had flashes of rage when I'm playing happily with my kids and flashes of joy when reading about terrible things that happen, for example. Mostly these flashes are rare bursts that form out of a kind of static (imagine living with a very loud detuned radio all the time). My only coping mechanism so far is to become numb and block it out, which I am very good at doing, but it is exhausting and depressing to live like that. Most of the time the world is like a television screen to me, I see everything in 2d. The only time I fully feel like myself and can feel my own emotions is when I am far away from other people. Living in New Jersey is hell. I do get some relief from sensory deprivation- being submerged in water or listening to loud music through headphones in a dark room, but I can't live my life like that. It basically sucks.

Honestly if I find that growing my hair long makes my ability to sense other people's emotions stronger, then I am going to shave it all off until I can move to an isolated place.

Peter, I am sure you have heard the old adage that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

I am saying this to you as a scientist and as an atheist- If you consider the scope of the universe, and the incomprehensibly infinite amount of relationships and interactions between the matter within it- limiting your beliefs to things which can be empirically proven by human scientific efforts will leave you with a very narrow window to look through, so to speak. If you choose to believe that way, that is as valid as any other belief system- but that is all it is, a belief system. It would have been more correct for you to say "I don't believe there is such a thing as being psychic." Instead, you stated it as a fact- which is unverifiable at best.

You can tell me that you don't believe empaths exist and I will respect that, but it would not be correct to say as a matter of fact that "empaths don't exist." How could you possibly know?

[heidi w.]

Poppycock.

One might believe it, but belief doesn't make it true.


heidi w.

[ladyshep]

LOL at Heidi! I like your choice word.


I think it's rubbish as well.

[holothuroidea]

...neither does disbelief make anything false.

[Flame3345]

I believe that long hair expands our senses in a way :)

[shirohane]

I don't personally think that it's related. For one thing, I have hair over four times as long as one of my acquaintances who is psychic. I, myself, am not and am quite skeptical about the matter. :confused:

[ktani]

I was joking about the lottery numbers. That is what skeptics usually ask about when the subject comes up.

I think psychic ability as a term is the problem. 6th sense is more accurate in that it encompases empathy, intuition and more. Psychic ability brings to mind hype and scam.

[redsoles]

Psychics don't exist. I'm sorry. You're as psychic as your refrigerator. unless psychics or anyone that claims to have extraordinary powers can prove this, than it's fallacious.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

[redsoles]

Poppycock.

One might believe it, but belief doesn't make it true.


heidi w.

Belief always comes before evidence.

[holothuroidea]

Psychics don't exist. I'm sorry. You're as psychic as your refrigerator. unless psychics or anyone that claims to have extraordinary powers can prove this, than it's fallacious.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

Well how about evidence to back up your claim that you know someone who grew their hair from chin to waist in 6 months? That's a rather extraordinary claim.

For the record, I believe you. I'll take you at your word just like I do for everyone else. Who am I to say that your experience isn't true?

[gthlvrmx]

Native Americans strike me as spirtual people in tune with mother earth and the spirit world. They frequently choose to wear long flowing hair. Maybe it is possible there's a connection between long hair and spirituality but I'm not sure if that would include precognition.
I think it was the longer it is the stronger the spirit for some tribes.

[terylenerose]

This is a really interesting idea. I haven't been paying any attention to whether my occasional intuitive abilities relate to my hair length, but I will start. I can tell you that the last time I cut my hair short I cried for weeks and became very depressed, but that probably had nothing to do with intuition/extensions of the nervous system/whatever and was just because I had become attached to my hair. (I had previously been trying to grow it long.)
I tend to jump on any supernatural type of claim because I have some quite strong opinions that are things I "just know" and can not be talked out of. I have always had a strong connection to nature and loved the outdoors. It goes a little farther than that but it would be hard to try to explain everything. I think my connection to what is right and good may have weakened when I cut my hair and dyed it. Ever since that I think I have been a bit more superficial than normal. The last time my hair was sort of long I wore it down all the time because I thought it was wrong to wear it up. Now I wear it up a lot because I am trying to protect it from damage and it drives me nuts when it's down. I'm not going to be wearing it down any time soon, though, because I care too much about the health of my hair. I would be very interested to hear what everyone has to say about dye, henna, bleach and split ends, because I have all of those in my hair and wish I didn't. I wonder if splitting the cuticle with bleach affects whatever sensing ability the hair may have, or if blocking it up with henna could block out sensations. Just some things to think about. I am sorry if my post disturbs anyone with a scientific mind, but all I can say is that I am not a scientific person and that way of thinking does not come naturally to me. I have no wish to offend.

[lostchyld]

I'll admit, my first inclination was to laugh, but then I thought about it a little. It's not precognition, but after I cut my MBL hair, I lost my connection to other worlds and also Luke, my protector. It's coming back a little as my hair grows, but I don't think it'll ever be as strong as it was before, for reasons other than hair. There were other major things happening at the time, so there's correlation but no evidence of causation.

[Of the Fae]

I still don't know.
It is interesting though, the article about the Indians. One cannot tell if it is a true story, but it might explain the connection between them and long hair.
I do believe in unexplained phenomenae, and the energies of Mother Earth, yet I am still unsure what is possible and what is not. One should at all times remain sceptic, as to not believing everything they read or see.

[lostchyld]

One should at all times remain sceptic, as to not believing everything they read or see.

With the suggestion that not believing everything doesn't mean believing nothing.

[Angela_Rose]

Hmm, what an interesting theory.

I have long hair and some psychic senses/abilities/what-have-you, but I can't say I ever consciously equated said abilities with having long hair.

I am a Pagan (Asatru, for those keeping track), and when I'm doing whatever spiritual/religious things, I have always let my hair loose. I've always let it loose without thinking about it, too; I wonder if I've just known that that's part of what allows my mind to open up more and be more receptive to whatever experience I'm going to have.

[VikingVampChick]

For me, there's no proof one way or the other, so there is still a possibility. Probability is a whole other kettle of fish.

[Venefica]

Psychics don't exist. I'm sorry. You're as psychic as your refrigerator. unless psychics or anyone that claims to have extraordinary powers can prove this, than it's fallacious.

So the doctors in the 1800's who where claiming that there where germs which could harm the patients and that washing their hands between handling corpses and handling living people where wrong until the microscope where invented so they could prove their claims? Even if modern science can not prove something do not mean it do not exist, often it means that science have not yet gotten the tools needed to prove a given phenomena. There is to many witnesses, to many unexplained events to just dismiss psychic ability out of hand because science can not measure and weigh it yet.

I have to ecco that there exist a middle ground between believing everything and believing nothing, even if one believe in psychic phenomena do not mean one believe every claim of it or everything one reads, one can be both a skeptic and a believer at the same time.

[spidermom]

I haven't read the whole thread (yet) but wanted to share that I have the most pointless psychic dreams ever. Like I'll dream the plot of a movie I've never heard of, and sometime that week a family member will bring home an obscure movie from the library with the same plot and characters. Or I'll dream a comic strip that I will read in the near future. Uh ... thanks a lot, powers that be. Send me dreams about winning lottery numbers or accidents I can avoid, please!

[spidermom]

For all I know, my refrigerator IS psychic.

[Venefica]

Perhaps it is, in Japanese folklore you find this idea that inanimate objects which receive much attention, witness powerful events or just get old enough get spirits and in a way become alive. Perhaps your refrigerator have a soul.

[MinderMutsig]

So the doctors in the 1800's who where claiming that there where germs which could harm the patients and that washing their hands between handling corpses and handling living people where wrong until the microscope where invented so they could prove their claims? Even if modern science can not prove something do not mean it do not exist, often it means that science have not yet gotten the tools needed to prove a given phenomena. There is to many witnesses, to many unexplained events to just dismiss psychic ability out of hand because science can not measure and weigh it yet.

I have to ecco that there exist a middle ground between believing everything and believing nothing, even if one believe in psychic phenomena do not mean one believe every claim of it or everything one reads, one can be both a skeptic and a believer at the same time.
The difference here of course is that while those doctors might not yet have had the tools to find what was causing these illnesses and deaths, they did have physical evidence that they were occurring. They had a boatload of unexplained sick or dying people for no good reason and there was a direct correlation between those sick people and actions of the doctors before treating them.

This is not the case when it comes to phychic ability. There is no phenomenon. There is no shred of evidence, no correlation, absolutely nothing that suggests it exists even though scientists have been researching claims for decades.

I agree that not being able to see something does not mean it's not there. Seeing is a very limited tool. But those things that you can't see that are there have their effect on the physical world.

Leafs move around, ergo something is moving them. Objects fall to the floor, ergo something is pulling them down. People are getting sick after having contact with dead bodies or if the doctor treats them handles dead bodies before treating them, ergo something is making them sick. Electrons have mass so even though we haven't found the something that is responsible for this, it has to be there.

There is no such evidence or even clues that something paranormal exists. The hit rate of physics has proven to be either consistent with guesswork, has a logical scientific explanation (cold reading, hot reading, confirmation bias etc.) or is proven to be intentional or unintentional deception.

And no, I'm sorry but being a skeptic and a believer are completely and utterly contradictory. Belief by definition means accepting something without proof or evidence. There is absolutely nothing skeptical about that.

[Angela_Rose]

Psychics don't exist. I'm sorry. You're as psychic as your refrigerator. unless psychics or anyone that claims to have extraordinary powers can prove this, than it's fallacious.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

My refrigerator knows that I like my milk cold, my meat unspoiled, my veggies crisp... damn! My fridge *is* psychic!!!

[holothuroidea]

MinderMustig- There is no empirical evidence, no. It is not possible to obtain empirical evidence on someone's thoughts, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I take people's word as evidence on this matter because, honestly, I have no intention of invalidating anyone's experiences.

I agree with you about precognition being really shady, but you seem to think that psychic=pregognition which would be a misconception. There are a lot of claims of people simply sensing things that other's don't- not necessarily the future. Just like you might be able to detect a smell that I can't, if I can't smell it I'm likely to believe it doesn't exist even if you can. (This is an actual issue, there are certain scents that only some people can detect- galaxolide, for example.) I think that idea got muddled because of the use of the word "psychic," which has some negative connotations.

[princessp]

Since this is an older thread I'm not sure if I've already posted (and I'm in a little bit of a rush so excuse me). I have no idea if hair has anything to do with it, but I definitely have "extra senses". I believe I might just be more observant than most people, but there are also some other unexplained. I try not to dwell or over-think though. I think we all have these abilities and there is a perfectly logical scientific explanation, we just haven't quite figured it out yet. :flower:

[GlennaGirl]

For all I know, my refrigerator IS psychic.

I don't know whether my refrigerator is psychic by definition, but it does have drawing powers. Especially when it's stuffed with chocolate covered cherries or cheesecake! It just...pulls me. With its evil powers. :D

By the way...my refrigerator has no hair.

[Venefica]

The difference here of course is that while those doctors might not yet have had the tools to find what was causing these illnesses and deaths, they did have physical evidence that they were occurring. They had a boatload of unexplained sick or dying people for no good reason and there was a direct correlation between those sick people and actions of the doctors before treating them.

You have the same with paranormal phenomena. There are houses where the electricity just do not work, even if checked and checked again by professionals and no explanation is given as to why this is happening, there are places where small children and animals are terrified to go into without any explanation. A very big number of people who go to healers do get better or even completed well and often without doctors being able to say exactly why this is happening and the list go on where you have the result, what one can not prove is that the cause was psychic phenomena, so it is no different from the situation of those doctors.


This is not the case when it comes to phychic ability. There is no phenomenon. There is no shred of evidence, no correlation, absolutely nothing that suggests it exists even though scientists have been researching claims for decades.

There is thousands upon thousands of witness accounts, quite a bit of research have had positive effects even if it have not been enough to convince the mainstream scientific community. Many people's lives have been completely changed by such phenomena. I would not call that nothing to suggest it even exists.


I agree that not being able to see something does not mean it's not there. Seeing is a very limited tool. But those things that you can't see that are there have their effect on the physical world.

And so do psychic phenomena.


Leafs move around, ergo something is moving them. Objects fall to the floor, ergo something is pulling them down. People are getting sick after having contact with dead bodies or if the doctor treats them handles dead bodies before treating them, ergo something is making them sick. Electrons have mass so even though we haven't found the something that is responsible for this, it has to be there.

The problem is when skeptics do not put the same logic to work when it comes to accounts of the paranormal. You have healers where an overwhelming number of people who go to them get better ergo something must cause those healings, there are houses where most people who go there get sick, ergo something must cause that sickness, there is cases where people have gotten a call from a loved one in the middle of the night telling them not to take a plane the next day as it will crash and it do, something must have caused the caller to get that information, and the list go on and on, and when there is no "natural" explanation to be found for such events perhaps then one should continue to think something must be causing them instead of no they are not happening, everything is just coincidences so matter how improbable those coincidences are.


There is no such evidence or even clues that something paranormal exists. The hit rate of physics has proven to be either consistent with guesswork, has a logical scientific explanation (cold reading, hot reading, confirmation bias etc.) or is proven to be intentional or unintentional deception.

First off all not all tests have had such a low hit rate, secondly there is allot of reasons why it is not always possible to perform in a lab. For example I had an episode once when I and my hubby where out walking, we got to a place where there where a stick in the ground. I picked up a stone and tossed it at the stick. Now normally I just can not aim, but this time I knew each stone would hit as I felt a connection between me, the stick and the stone, and I hit it every time. Then we went home and my hubby rolled a dice and I told him every time which number would come up and every time I got it right, we sat like that for hours. I had this extremely strange feeling in my mind, and I just knew I would be right at every turn. But here is the catch, I can not set myself in that stand on command. It is like an artist's inspiration. It comes when it pleases and it especially do not come when you are in a room full of people who do not believe you. Outside of a laboratory setting psychics do very well. Perhaps it is time science listened to witnesses, saw the results psychics manage to get and perhaps considered if it was there test methods there where something wrong with and not psychic phenomena in itself.


And no, I'm sorry but being a skeptic and a believer are completely and utterly contradictory. Belief by definition means accepting something without proof or evidence. There is absolutely nothing skeptical about that.

I do not agree with you. You to believe, you believe the ideas we have about the world is true, you believe that you are real and not a simulation in a computer and so on. The truth is we know nothing for sure, everything is belief. Being a skeptic means that you do not accept something without having it proven to you, well I have had psychic phenomena and the paranormal proven to me. When one believe in the paranormal that do not mean one will accept everything that someone tell you or that you can not think critically.

[Venefica]

By the way...my refrigerator has no hair.

No perhaps not, but some of the food in mine do, or should I say former food. I am such a terrible housekeeper. :P

[MinderMutsig]

MinderMustig- There is no empirical evidence, no. It is not possible to obtain empirical evidence on someone's thoughts, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I take people's word as evidence on this matter because, honestly, I have no intention of invalidating anyone's experiences.

I agree with you about precognition being really shady, but you seem to think that psychic=pregognition which would be a misconception. There are a lot of claims of people simply sensing things that other's don't- not necessarily the future. Just like you might be able to detect a smell that I can't, if I can't smell it I'm likely to believe it doesn't exist even if you can. (This is an actual issue, there are certain scents that only some people can detect- galaxolide, for example.) I think that idea got muddled because of the use of the word "psychic," which has some negative connotations.And you know about this smell that some can and some can't smell how? Precisely, because it has been scientifically proven to exist and it has been proven that not everyone can smell it. Science wins again. ;)

I do not think psychic=precog by the way, I was just giving examples.

[tigereye]

I have to ecco that there exist a middle ground between believing everything and believing nothing, even if one believe in psychic phenomena do not mean one believe every claim of it or everything one reads, one can be both a skeptic and a believer at the same time.

I have to agree with this. You don't have to believe everything about psychics, to still believe in parts.

(Next part is my own opinion, and not replying to the quote)
As for the case of looking for evidence, just because there is no evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Science is constantly discovering new things. There are many, many things in this world that science cannot yet explain (and if there wasn't, all us scientists and science students would be out of a job), not only related to psychics, but to many other things in the world. We are discovering new things all the time, and some things we may never explain. Someone once said "there is much more to do than can ever be done". Psychics may be explained some day, or may not. We can never know, but why should the fact that it hasn't happened yet mean that anyone else who experiences it is wrong until the day it is proved right?

Besides, who am I to say someone is lying? There are thousands and thousands of accounts out there who say they have/have been exposed to psychic powers. As someone who can see auras (and I'm certainly not the only one, judging by the aura thread, and the similarities in our accounts), I can certainly say that there are likely a large number of people who wont believe me, because they can't see it, but I am more likely to believe those others who say they do, because I see the same thing. On the other hand, I'm much more skeptical about things like seeing into the future, but while I may not believe it, I don't feel I really have the right to say they're wrong, when really they're just in the same boat as me. I don't believe them, they don't believe me: it doesn't mean that either of us are inherently wrong, purely because we are not believed. Sure, some people are more than likely lying - it happens with anything - but that doesn't mean there aren't some people for whom it is absolute truth for.

[MinderMutsig]

You have the same with paranormal phenomena. There are houses where the electricity just do not work, even if checked and checked again by professionals and no explanation is given as to why this is happening, there are places where small children and animals are terrified to go into without any explanation. A very big number of people who go to healers do get better or even completed well and often without doctors being able to say exactly why this is happening and the list go on where you have the result, what one can not prove is that the cause was psychic phenomena, so it is no different from the situation of those doctors. Without you giving a direct example of what you are talking about there is no point in me saying anything about it. Where are these mysterious houses? Who researched them? Where are these places children and animals are afraid to go to?

I'm going to ignore your claim about healers because that's a topic that I'm not able to keep KNIT. Let's just leave it at this: I'd love to see some proof.




There is thousands upon thousands of witness accounts, quite a bit of research have had positive effects even if it have not been enough to convince the mainstream scientific community. Many people's lives have been completely changed by such phenomena. I would not call that nothing to suggest it even exists. Anecdotal evidence. It isn't enough to convince the scientific community because there is no proof it exists.


And so do psychic phenomena. This claim is meaningless without proof. If it has an effect on the observable world, it can be tested. It's as simple as that.


The problem is when skeptics do not put the same logic to work when it comes to accounts of the paranormal. You have healers where an overwhelming number of people who go to them get better ergo something must cause those healings, Ah those miraculous healers again who healed thousands. Weird huh, that the scientific community isn't able to find all those amputees who grew back their legs? Or maybe those people who suffer from arthritis who suddenly grew back their finger joints that were removed? Or maybe, I don't know, healers who healed anything verifiable on anyone?

It's always someone who suffered from chronic fatigue (which cannot be proven) or some other vague disease who got miraculously healed. And let's not forget about the people in the audience who are part of the gig, have nothing wrong with them but miraculously get healed and dance out of their wheelchair.

If there is a hell, there is a special place all the way at the very bottom especially reserved for so called healers.


[/quote]there are houses where most people who go there get sick, ergo something must cause that sickness, [/quote]

Without specific claims there is no point in discussing these hypothetical cases. Do you know such a house? Has it been researched and by whom?



there is cases where people have gotten a call from a loved one in the middle of the night telling them not to take a plane the next day as it will crash and it do, something must have caused the caller to get that information, and the list go on and on, Confirmation bias. For every caller who happened to be right in 'predicting' a plane crash, there are thousands of callers who are just forgotten and written off as paranoid because the plane of the people who received that call did not crash. In that case it's just a slightly kookoo mother with anxiety issues and no middle-of-the-night-brain-to-phone-filter, filed under nonsense and forgotten.



and when there is no "natural" explanation to be found for such events perhaps then one should continue to think something must be causing them instead of no they are not happening, everything is just coincidences so matter how improbable those coincidences are.

Again, there is no proof the event is even happening and without that there is no point in thinking up what might cause these hypothetical events.

It is also a very bad idea to just jump to the conclusion that it must be paranormal just because you (general you, not you-you) lack the knowledge, experience or imagination to come up with a real world explanation. Just because you can't explain something with the knowledge you poses doesn't automatically mean the pixies did it. There could still be a perfectly normal and natural explanation that you just can't know yet. Like with the germs on the dead bodies you talked about. It wouldn't have helped anyone if those doctors just had given up looking for an explanation with the reasoning "oh we don't know, so it must be paranormal and thus can't be tested". That is not only a lazy stance but also a stupid one.

There is nothing wrong with saying "we can't explain this yet" or "we don't know yet". But to be able to say that about any phenomenon it first has to be shown to exist.



First off all not all tests have had such a low hit rate, secondly there is allot of reasons why it is not always possible to perform in a lab. Yes, this is the excuse all those people who were tested by Randi James use. Even though before the test they claimed they could do it every time. And even though they helped set the parameters for the test and said they would be able to do it. I wonder what it is about labs that they are so effective in blocking paranormal activity...



For example I had an episode once when I and my hubby where out walking, we got to a place where there where a stick in the ground. I picked up a stone and tossed it at the stick. Now normally I just can not aim, but this time I knew each stone would hit as I felt a connection between me, the stick and the stone, and I hit it every time. Then we went home and my hubby rolled a dice and I told him every time which number would come up and every time I got it right, we sat like that for hours. I had this extremely strange feeling in my mind, and I just knew I would be right at every turn. But here is the catch, I can not set myself in that stand on command. It is like an artist's inspiration. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


But aside from that, are you telling me you had an episode of very clear precognition with a 100% success rate and instead of using that to your own or mankind's benefit, you wasted it on predicting what numbers would come up on some dice? For hours on end?
Or maybe the question should be: the universe (or wherever you believe your powers come from) gave you precog powers with a 100% success rate for a day and instead of showing you something useful, you got to see dots on some dice? I would feel duped. That is extremely disappointing.



It comes when it pleases and it especially do not come when you are in a room full of people who do not believe you. Outside of a laboratory setting psychics do very well. Perhaps it is time science listened to witnesses, saw the results psychics manage to get and perhaps considered if it was there test methods there where something wrong with and not psychic phenomena in itself. What do you think scientists have been trying to do for decades? Exactly this! And we all know the result.




I do not agree with you. You to believe, you believe the ideas we have about the world is true, you believe that you are real and not a simulation in a computer and so on. The truth is we know nothing for sure, everything is belief. Being a skeptic means that you do not accept something without having it proven to you, well I have had psychic phenomena and the paranormal proven to me. When one believe in the paranormal that do not mean one will accept everything that someone tell you or that you can not think critically.

I do not believe my ideas about the world are true. I'm an idiot. Most people are. And on top of that we have senses that are not only limited but that also like to play tricks on us. That is why we have to come up with ways to quantify data and objectively determine what is true and what is not. The best method we have for this at present is the scientific method. Is it flawed? Probably. But it is the best method we have.

Without it we are left with just believing whatever anyone tells us willynilly.

[Of the Fae]

With the suggestion that not believing everything doesn't mean believing nothing.

Yes, this.
I do not deny everything but science. Science is not the solution to everything, and we do not have the science to answer anything yet.
Long ago, people thought radio waves were paranormal nonsense, and now everybody owns a radio!
I believe in healing through energy, because it is real in my perception. If I feel or observe something it is real to me. I trust my senses before I trust any sort of magazine or book telling me what to think ;)

However, when there IS a scientific explanation, and it is more plausible than a far fetched paranormal one, I tend to stick to that. So it's really all a matter of using your own judgement, and not just your brain, but also your body and spirit.

[lostchyld]

I do not believe my ideas about the world are true. I'm an idiot. Most people are. And on top of that we have senses that are not only limited but that also like to play tricks on us. That is why we have to come up with ways to quantify data and objectively determine what is true and what is not. The best method we have for this at present is the scientific method. Is it flawed? Probably. But it is the best method we have.

Without it we are left with just believing whatever anyone tells us willynilly.

Why would you choose to believe an admissibly flawed method? Humans are incapable of being fully objective, even in a scientific setting. We're all biased by what we want to be true and what we've seen before. Furthermore, when sharing results, others are biased by what we say we've seen in our experiments. What we know about science has as much potential to be wrong as anything else we claim to know, but we choose to believe it for various reasons.

Yes, the paranormal is a game of perception and association. So is science. I'll choose to believe in both, because I think they're the same at their root.

[holothuroidea]

And you know about this smell that some can and some can't smell how? Precisely, because it has been scientifically proven to exist and it has been proven that not everyone can smell it. Science wins again. ;)

I do not think psychic=precog by the way, I was just giving examples.

Well that's because there are ways to prove the existence of a given molecule. It doesn't mean that before mass spectroscopy the smell didn't exist. There is no current way to prove the existence of any given thought, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

"Science wins again." :rolleyes: Really. It's a pet peeve of mine when people anthropomorphize science. It's one way we have of answering questions, but when there is no empirical evidence for something science is absolutely useless. Scientific methods don't work in all cases.

[holothuroidea]

I do not believe my ideas about the world are true. I'm an idiot. Most people are. And on top of that we have senses that are not only limited but that also like to play tricks on us. That is why we have to come up with ways to quantify data and objectively determine what is true and what is not. The best method we have for this at present is the scientific method. Is it flawed? Probably. But it is the best method we have.

Without it we are left with just believing whatever anyone tells us willynilly.

I think I said it earlier, but choosing to believe that only the things that can be proven with empirical evidence are true is a belief system. It is a personal choice. (And a very valid one!)

Here you are pushing your beliefs on others, telling other people that they should believe the same way you do. I don't see it as any different than someone telling me I need to believe in God and otherwise I am living a lie.

I find this sort of thing repulsive, quite frankly.

[tigereye]

Why would you choose to believe an admissibly flawed method? Humans are incapable of being fully objective, even in a scientific setting. We're all biased by what we want to be true and what we've seen before. Furthermore, when sharing results, others are biased by what we say we've seen in our experiments. What we know about science has as much potential to be wrong as anything else we claim to know, but we choose to believe it for various reasons.

Yes, the paranormal is a game of perception and association. So is science. I'll choose to believe in both, because I think they're the same at their root.
I agree. I'm a science student. I, personally, think that science isn't going to get anywhere if you only believe in what has already been discovered. That method is essentially flawed.


I think I said it earlier, but choosing to believe that only the things that can be proven with empirical evidence are true is a belief system. It is a personal choice. (And a very valid one!)

Here you are pushing your beliefs on others, telling other people that they should believe the same way you do. I don't see it as any different than someone telling me I need to believe in God and otherwise I am living a lie.

I find this sort of thing repulsive, quite frankly.


I agree!

Its all very well having a civilised debate, but I felt some of the last posts have very much refused to even consider someone else's view. Trying to shove other peoples personal beliefs into the ground. :( That kind of talk wouldn't be well received in a religious thread, because they are personal beliefs in the same way.
People don't need to agree. They just need to agree to disagree. Just because someone doesn't believe in the same thing as you doesn't mean that they are any more "right" or "wrong" than you, and just because one persons view of science is that there is "no evidence" (I'll assume you mean empirical evidence, here) doesn't mean that the person who refuses to believe it is wrong. I say one persons view, because each persons beliefs can skew the view on science too. One person may not believe in a god, because there is "no evidence", but other people are quite content to be religious and believe in science. It is the same with this issue.

In fact, I'm quite content to do science and continue seeing auras. Maybe someday my brother (a psychologist) and I might be able to find out how or why I see them, but maybe not, and I'm totally fine with that. If no-one ever proves it, I'm still fine with it. Whether there is truly something there (which is what I believe), or if the auras I see are a quirk of my visual system, or brain processing, or whatever, no-one knows, so until then, I'll believe what I believe.

[GlennaGirl]

LOL! Supreme irony here. The spam banner on this thread is showing a bald psychic. (Had to backtrack...here (https://secure.tupakpsychic.com/free_offer.html?ectrans=1&campaign=free%20readings&campaignarea=US&gclid=CPT8gKbO5q4CFcwBRQod5Sbmgw&media=Content-ban&partner=Goo&subid=Classicv1) he is.)

Just thought that might give everybody a giggle!

[MinderMutsig]

I guess something is lost in translation because I am unable to get my point across and I don't know how to explain it better. Maybe it's better to stop trying because the discussion is starting to get heated. Thanks for the discussion, it has been interesting.

I do want to say this though, disagreeing with someone and verbalizing this disagreement does not equal pushing your beliefs on someone. Asking for proof of extraordinary claims is not pushing your beliefs on someone. Refusing to accept said extraordinary claim without such proof is not pushing your beliefs on someone. And frankly I resent that implication. I have as much right to state my opinion as anyone.

[ravenheather]

I'd just like to point out that science believed the earth was flat and the center of the universe for a very long time. We didn't have the tools to see otherwise. But it didn't make the earth less round because we didn't know or have the tools to see it.

[Venefica]

And you know about this smell that some can and some can't smell how? Precisely, because it has been scientifically proven to exist and it has been proven that not everyone can smell it. Science wins again.

No one is saying science is bad, science is just a method for collecting knowledge, what however is being said is that even if science can not prove the existence of something right now that do not mean that thing do not exist. At some point in history some people would go around and smell what other people could not and science at that time had no way to prove that what they where smelling where real. Sometimes science have just not gotten far enough yet to measure something, and that do not disprove a thing's existence.


Without you giving a direct example of what you are talking about there is no point in me saying anything about it. Where are these mysterious houses? Who researched them? Where are these places children and animals are afraid to go to?

I'm going to ignore your claim about healers because that's a topic that I'm not able to keep KNIT. Let's just leave it at this: I'd love to see some proof.

Perhaps if you want to see proof it would be wise to instead of dismissing everything and screaming science can not prove this, perhaps start practicing, see for yourself if you get results or not. Now a quick goodle search for paranormal and houes should give you quite a few examples. But let me give you one. There where a field next to where I grew up, young kids and animals hated the place and stayed away, dogs got uneasy if you took them into the place, but there where no physical reason why they should dislike that field. However this is only one example, there are quite a few of them and they are easy to find.


Anecdotal evidence. It isn't enough to convince the scientific community because there is no proof it exists.

There is a fair deal of proof but the scientific community is not that interested in having their world views changed, but even if you think the evidence is anecdotal. If this was a trial and many thousand people testified as eye witnesses to let us say a murderer's actions then that would be considered pretty compelling.


This claim is meaningless without proof. If it has an effect on the observable world, it can be tested. It's as simple as that.

That is what the doctors who ridiculed the man that first started advocating for hospital staff to wash their hands. Such claims are meaningless they said, who care if the patients are dying, science can not detect these organisms you speak of and if it is real it can be tested, as simple as that. I guess all of us who have ever had an operation done should be glad not everyone think like you do eh.


Ah those miraculous healers again who healed thousands. Weird huh, that the scientific community isn't able to find all those amputees who grew back their legs? Or maybe those people who suffer from arthritis who suddenly grew back their finger joints that were removed? Or maybe, I don't know, healers who healed anything verifiable on anyone?

So limb regeneration is the only healing you can think of. I guess I should demand my money back from my doctor who helped me with a sprained foot here a while ago, nothing where regrown so no healing could have taken place. If however you try to be a bit more realistic you will find allot of people who have gotten verifiable better when going to healers.


It's always someone who suffered from chronic fatigue (which cannot be proven) or some other vague disease who got miraculously healed. And let's not forget about the people in the audience who are part of the gig, have nothing wrong with them but miraculously get healed and dance out of their wheelchair.

So you assume that people who have chronic fatigue syndrome is just faking it, it is nothing vague about that illness, it ruins lives. People like you make me sick, you make life hell for people with chronic fatigue and other illnesses which is not fully understood by doctors. I might be a cruel woman, but when I encounter people like you I hope you get such a "vague" illness and that when you come for help you encounter someone just like you who just dismiss it as vague.

Now things my mother for example have healing is anxiety, bareness, gotten wounds to grow faster, colds, the flu, the list go on and on. Not being able to regrow limbs do not mean one can not heal. Also most healers do not do so in front of an audience.


If there is a hell, there is a special place all the way at the very bottom especially reserved for so called healers.

Yeah for people who try to help others whatever what they do work or not, they deserve to go to hell. How despicable are you?

[Venefica]

Without specific claims there is no point in discussing these hypothetical cases. Do you know such a house? Has it been researched and by whom?

Again google it, but yes there is one near where I live, and no it have not been researched, it have been checked by professionals for spores and other things that can make people ill, and they found nothing and people are still getting sick. However for American examples just google it for there are hundreds of them.


Confirmation bias. For every caller who happened to be right in 'predicting' a plane crash, there are thousands of callers who are just forgotten and written off as paranoid because the plane of the people who received that call did not crash. In that case it's just a slightly kookoo mother with anxiety issues and no middle-of-the-night-brain-to-phone-filter, filed under nonsense and forgotten.

Actually many of those calls are extremely precise, and some people have a very high percentage of hits. What you are saying is like saying there exist no human beings because there is just so many more bugs in the world.


Again, there is no proof the event is even happening and without that there is no point in thinking up what might cause these hypothetical events.

That is the basis of science, to wonder what might cause this, what might happen if i do this, what might be the cause and instead of drawing conclusions going out and researching them, what might be the cause, is the whole root of science, the asking of why.


It is also a very bad idea to just jump to the conclusion that it must be paranormal just because you (general you, not you-you) lack the knowledge, experience or imagination to come up with a real world explanation. Just because you can't explain something with the knowledge you poses doesn't automatically mean the pixies did it. There could still be a perfectly normal and natural explanation that you just can't know yet. Like with the germs on the dead bodies you talked about. It wouldn't have helped anyone if those doctors just had given up looking for an explanation with the reasoning "oh we don't know, so it must be paranormal and thus can't be tested". That is not only a lazy stance but also a stupid one.

There is nothing wrong with saying "we can't explain this yet" or "we don't know yet". But to be able to say that about any phenomenon it first has to be shown to exist.

So you are saying we should not wash our hands at hospitals before science have proven a reason for it? I have seen the existence of the paranormal, so have millions of others, perhaps it is time to go about it differently when it comes to researching it instead of burying our hands in the sand and saying my method can prove it so it do not exist.

Also even if one believe in the paranormal that do not mean one immediately jump to the conclusion that something is supernatural. However when I experience something I do not wait for science to give me permission to believe in something, I can think for myself, something you need to try.

Believing in the paranormal do not mean that one stop looking for an explanation. It means that one look at a thing happening, a result happening from action and one use that. I am quite sure science will at some time explain what psychic phenomena is, but until that time I will continue to use this wonderful tool. Or in other words, when I see that my patients die less when I wash my hands I really want to know why, and I do not stop searching for that answer, but at the time I do not care if it is pixie dust or Godzilla which is the problem. If it saves people's lives I will start washing my hands and then find out more about it later.


Yes, this is the excuse all those people who were tested by Randi James use. Even though before the test they claimed they could do it every time. And even though they helped set the parameters for the test and said they would be able to do it. I wonder what it is about labs that they are so effective in blocking paranormal activity...

I wonder what it is about a lab situation which seam to mess with paranormal activity to, what about trying to find it out instead of just dismissing the whole phenomena? Pandas have a huge problem with reproducing in captivity, even when given perfect conditions, what is most logical then to say pandas do not reproduce or figure out what about captivity make these animals unable to reproduce?


But aside from that, are you telling me you had an episode of very clear precognition with a 100% success rate and instead of using that to your own or mankind's benefit, you wasted it on predicting what numbers would come up on some dice? For hours on end?
Or maybe the question should be: the universe (or wherever you believe your powers come from) gave you precog powers with a 100% success rate for a day and instead of showing you something useful, you got to see dots on some dice? I would feel duped. That is extremely disappointing.

You lack understanding about what and how paranormal abilities work. Even if I am able to predict the toss of a dice that do not mean I can see the cure for cancer, it do not work like that. You need to read up about the topic a bit if you are going to argue so aggressively against it. Hell I wish I could do the things in the movies, and I have at times seen bigger things, but for now I can heal colds and predict dice tosses you take what you get. I am not a Dune navigator, if you catch the reference, a psychic person can not see everything. So yes when I have periods with particular clear connection or whatever you want to call it I use that to train, to become better at the occult methods I use so perhaps I one day can do something major with it for the betterment of myself and others.


What do you think scientists have been trying to do for decades? Exactly this! And we all know the result.

Where not you the one that said it was lazy to stop searching for knowledge even if one do not have it yet. Should not then science then keep going?


I do not believe my ideas about the world are true. I'm an idiot. Most people are. And on top of that we have senses that are not only limited but that also like to play tricks on us. That is why we have to come up with ways to quantify data and objectively determine what is true and what is not. The best method we have for this at present is the scientific method. Is it flawed? Probably. But it is the best method we have.

Without it we are left with just believing whatever anyone tells us willynilly.

The scientific method and the modern scientific paradigm are two different things. Occultists, New Agers and psychics use this method to, it is pretty natural way to seek knowledge, and even if a set of knowledge is not sanctioned by the modern scientific community do not mean that it is not true.

[lostchyld]

LOL! Supreme irony here. The spam banner on this thread is showing a bald psychic. (Had to backtrack...here (https://secure.tupakpsychic.com/free_offer.html?ectrans=1&campaign=free%20readings&campaignarea=US&gclid=CPT8gKbO5q4CFcwBRQod5Sbmgw&media=Content-ban&partner=Goo&subid=Classicv1) he is.)

Just thought that might give everybody a giggle!

Success, I giggled.



I guess something is lost in translation because I am unable to get my point across and I don't know how to explain it better. Maybe it's better to stop trying because the discussion is starting to get heated. Thanks for the discussion, it has been interesting.

I do want to say this though, disagreeing with someone and verbalizing this disagreement does not equal pushing your beliefs on someone. Asking for proof of extraordinary claims is not pushing your beliefs on someone. Refusing to accept said extraordinary claim without such proof is not pushing your beliefs on someone. And frankly I resent that implication. I have as much right to state my opinion as anyone.

I think the trouble is the perceived, on our part, implication that we shouldn't choose believe the extraordinary claims that you are choosing to discard. I think your wording is maybe coming across more aggressively than you intended, as is the wording of various other posters. Without the presence of body language and inflection, we're at the mercy of the voices in our heads to fill in the blanks. :pumpkin:

[MasCat]

I think it has a lot to do with symbolism. Long hair would be connected with woman sexuality, her liberty. In patriarchal societies it was a custom to wear hair loose when you were a maiden, married women would have covered their hair, or bound it. There is an old polish custom, that during a wedding a maidwould have the ceremony of puttin on a cap - She would put a cap on her hair, and then the other women would cut the hair that was out of the cap.

Now imagine awitch, a wise woman who lives alone and decides for herself ;)

[lostchyld]

Now imagine awitch, a wise woman who lives alone and decides for herself ;)

And there you have the reason witches are feared.

[MinderMutsig]

I think the trouble is the perceived, on our part, implication that we shouldn't choose believe the extraordinary claims that you are choosing to discard. I think your wording is maybe coming across more aggressively than you intended, as is the wording of various other posters. Without the presence of body language and inflection, we're at the mercy of the voices in our heads to fill in the blanks. :pumpkin: That is what I thought but now that someone has started intentionally misrepresenting my words, wishing illness upon me and instead of attacking my opinions started attacking me personally by calling me personally despicable, I'm pretty sure I'm being deliberately trolled. I reported that post by the way.

Either way, I'm done with this topic. Thanks to those who were able to keep it civilized. :)

[GlennaGirl]

You know, what if the long hair thing for various cultures is really because having long hair was a symbol for not caring so much about earthly things and therefore, being more open to the other world? That sort of thing?

In that respect, as time went by and people tried to interpret what the wise people were doing, it could have eventually become, "We need to keep our hair long in order to be more psychic, since that's what the sages of old did," which I don't think is all that uncommon in various belief systems (reversing the causation or whatever you'd call that).

[GlennaGirl]

I think it has a lot to do with symbolism. Long hair would be connected with woman sexuality, her liberty. In patriarchal societies it was a custom to wear hair loose when you were a maiden, married women would have covered their hair, or bound it. There is an old polish custom, that during a wedding a maidwould have the ceremony of puttin on a cap - She would put a cap on her hair, and then the other women would cut the hair that was out of the cap.

Now imagine awitch, a wise woman who lives alone and decides for herself ;)

Ooh. Good interpretation. I think I heart you! :cheese:

[lostchyld]

Slightly on the topic of science vs. belief, maybe, but now seems like a great time for an REM quote. :cheese:


Here's a little agit for the never-believer (Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
. . .
If you believed they put a man on the moon, man on the moon
If you believe there's nothing up his sleeve, then nothing is cool

[spidermom]

I'm also a bit offended by the comments "no such thing as psychic abilities". It's like saying (in my mind) "all those who claim psychic experiences are liars or fools." Excuse me!?

My DD and I have a strong psychic connection. So many times it has happened that one of us was about to ask the other a question, but the other answered before the question was asked. Or we will walk out of our bedrooms dressed in the same colors. The most unusual was a day I was at work when all of a sudden I grabbed the edge of my desk, afraid I was about to fall. My heart was pounding and I was on the edge of a panic attack. I knew it had something to do with my DD, and when I talked to her later, turned out she was 4-wheeling with a friend in the mountains and had gone into a long slide and almost plunged over the edge of the road down the mountain.

[Avital88]

Annyone who takes science over psychic just didnt experience such thing..
If i wouldnt know better i would have the same attitude about it ,i think...
their loss, the psychics know better and i think there is no need to discuss it with people who dont have that abilities.. its just a never ending discussion, save the energy i would say :)

[holothuroidea]

I guess something is lost in translation because I am unable to get my point across and I don't know how to explain it better. Maybe it's better to stop trying because the discussion is starting to get heated. Thanks for the discussion, it has been interesting.

I do want to say this though, disagreeing with someone and verbalizing this disagreement does not equal pushing your beliefs on someone. Asking for proof of extraordinary claims is not pushing your beliefs on someone. Refusing to accept said extraordinary claim without such proof is not pushing your beliefs on someone. And frankly I resent that implication. I have as much right to state my opinion as anyone.

:flower:

I think the problem with stating your particular opinion is because you give it the weight of scientific superiority- it comes across as a matter fact and not opinion. And since it is arguable, unverifiable, and infringes on the beliefs of others- it becomes offensive. Unfounded scientific arguments encounter this problem a lot. I've found (because I make them, too) that it is important to throw many phrases in there that let people know you are sharing a subjective opinion- even if it is objectively presented. (I think, I believe, The way I see it, In my experience, etc.)

So, for example, it would have been much better received if you said, "I don't think psychic abilities exist because there is no scientific evidence to back them up." Instead of, "Psychics don't exist."

I am sorry that we had a misunderstanding.

[holothuroidea]

Annyone who takes science over psychic just didnt experience such thing..
If i wouldnt know better i would have the same attitude about it ,i think...
their loss, the psychics know better and i think there is no need to discuss it with people who dont have that abilities.. its just a never ending discussion, save the energy i would say :)

This is a good point.

Personally, I've had a lot of trouble fitting my experiences into my very athiest, very empircal-proof driven (scientific) belief system. If I deny my own experiences to fit into that narrow scope of understanding I would really be the looser, there, wouldn't I?

[Changling]

When you experience something supernatural, your hair rises on the back of your neck - and even on your head and arms, depending on how freaked out you are, lol. So it sort of makes sense that longer hair would help to detect psychic waves better - it's like a longer antenna XD

[MinderMutsig]

:flower:

I think the problem with stating your particular opinion is because you give it the weight of scientific superiority- it comes across as a matter fact and not opinion. And since it is arguable, unverifiable, and infringes on the beliefs of others- it becomes offensive. Unfounded scientific arguments encounter this problem a lot. I've found (because I make them, too) that it is important to throw many phrases in there that let people know you are sharing a subjective opinion- even if it is objectively presented. (I think, I believe, The way I see it, In my experience, etc.)

So, for example, it would have been much better received if you said, "I don't think psychic abilities exist because there is no scientific evidence to back them up." Instead of, "Psychics don't exist."

I am sorry that we had a misunderstanding.
Thank you. :flower:

[terylenerose]

I don't have much to add, and I won't restart the argument, but I would like to point out that there are some books out there on healing. I have one called Theta Healing and it's very interesting. I don't have a link or anything, but I'm sure you can Google Theta Healing and find information on this technique. I don't remember anything in it about regrowing limbs or curing chronic fatigue (which is very real, by the way) but there are many cases of healing such things as cancer and broken bones. Don't take my word for it - look it up, please, if you want to know more. :)
Also, I think critical thinking/skepticism has been mentioned a few times. I'll point out here that you need to be skeptical of everything. This does not just mean new things you come across - it means things you have been taught from an early age, elements of your belief system, everything. And I don't mean reject everything out of hand either, I mean be accepting of all ideas but at the same time acknowledging the possibility that they could be false. I try to implement this in my life but I am sure that I don't do a perfect job. But I have learned over the years that some of the things I was taught to believe simply are not true. One example is shampoo. I was raised to believe that it was necessary for clean and healthy hair and if you didn't use shampoo you were stinky and gross. That may be true for some people, but I have not been using shampoo regularly for over a month and everything is fine. A lot of other people also never use shampoo and their hair is okay with it. There are other examples of common beliefs that I have changed or simply never held, but they are too controversial for me to bring up.

[darkrose]

@terlyenerose thats very interesting! Thank you for posting it. :)

[terylenerose]

@terlyenerose thats very interesting! Thank you for posting it. :)
You're welcome. :)
Also, I forgot to mention - I think someone said in one of the comments on the article that Native Americans consider cutting their hair to be like cutting their spirit. I feel the same way. After my last major haircut I felt like I was bleeding (figuratively, of course). Again, it is probably just my attachment to my hair, and I never feel that way about a small trim. I am also not Native American/First Nations, but I do have a belief system that prohibits cutting or dyeing your hair.

[holothuroidea]

Terylenerose, I have a curiosity.

In belief systems that treat the hair as a part of the body to be respected and taken care of, not dyed or cut, does that also hold true for ends that are damaged-even if it's just from exposure to the elements or hair that significantly inhibits your ability to go about your daly life (like if it gives you headaches or something)?

Or would cutting then be akin to healing a damaged part of the body?

These are things I am debating with myself, that is why I am curious. :flower:

[Shepherdess]

I personally don't really believe it has a connection to psychic things ( I believe that God shows signs, dreams and stuff). But I actually read this article a few weeks ago on how long hair does help in many senses and is connected to many things. This article is really interesting.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=193367