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Mountaingrrl
November 8th, 2011, 12:59 AM
I thought some of you might have some interesting input on this article:

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/07/are_short_haired_women_less_attractive/

morrigan*
November 8th, 2011, 01:25 AM
Interesting, I would love to hear what mens think about this?

nellreno
November 8th, 2011, 01:46 AM
People have individual preferences. I think in general I'm more attracted to women with long hair, probably partly because it's something we can connect over. However, I am attracted to women with short hair and by no means do I think that my preference is a reflection of society as a whole. And there are straight men attracted to women with short hair.

Gypsygirl
November 8th, 2011, 02:16 AM
Only two words...

BE YOURSELF.

And wear it on your sleeve...whether that means short or long hair, dark or light, wavy or straight... Whatever is you and feels right will make you happy and attractive. And...at the end of the day it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. But it matters all the world what you and your other half think. :)

Lamb
November 8th, 2011, 02:25 AM
Same old :bs:

Or that pixie-haired blonde girl I saw passionately kissing her boyfriend on the tram must have been totally unreal. :rolleyes:

"Nearly every straight man on the planet..." where do I even start with this...? :confused:

ETA: and this: "Sometimes, short hair is the beer gut for ladies." is offensive on so many levels, to so many women, I do not even bother to comment on it. The entire article is a load of :poop: if you want my "interesting input."

MissAlida
November 8th, 2011, 02:30 AM
This is a nice article...I have been a short haired girl myself, for more than 3 years. I loved it, tought that it really suited me. So did my parents and older family members. As for my friends and guys : they didn't quite like it. I grew it out, and my hair changed in the process. Before the pixie, it was a 1c, after, it became a 2c/3a. I love it, everyone thinks that it suits me. I do have moments of weakness, when I just want to go back to the pixie, but thanks to LHC, I didn't, and will not, not until I reach my goal to see how that feels.:)

naturegirl321
November 8th, 2011, 02:43 AM
To each their own. Some like long hair and some like short.

Toadstool
November 8th, 2011, 03:13 AM
Same old :bs:

Or that pixie-haired blonde girl I saw passionately kissing her boyfriend on the tram must have been totally unreal. :rolleyes:

"Nearly every straight man on the planet..." where do I even start with this...? :confused:

ETA: and this: "Sometimes, short hair is the beer gut for ladies." is offensive on so many levels, to so many women, I do not even bother to comment on it. The entire article is a load of :poop: if you want my "interesting input."

I agree. Why do people even bother writing these articles? One minute short hair is unattractive, the next long hair is. There's no content to these things at all, just the beauty industry's musings in an attempt to make women feel inadequate so that they spend more money trying to "improve" their appearance.
Gosh, I didn't know I felt that so clearly!

Alaia
November 8th, 2011, 03:36 AM
Yeah I think it's b*llocks.

I have a pixie wearing friend and she not only looks great (she actually looks like a pixie) but also has attracted far more men with her short hair!

Some people like short hair, some people like long hair. End of.

Aveyronnaise
November 8th, 2011, 03:40 AM
I agree. Why do people even bother writing these articles? One minute short hair is unattractive, the next long hair is. There's no content to these things at all, just the beauty industry's musings in an attempt to make women feel inadequate so that they spend more money trying to "improve" their appearance.
Gosh, I didn't know I felt that so clearly!
^
Exactly, I had an amazing boyfriend once who reflected that while working at a drugstore as a teen he realized that half the store was made up of products that changed the way women looked.
I really just go my own way with this stuff for the most part. I wore very short hair for a long time and had no problem with male attention. For the most part over here women have pretty short hair. I think it's seen as being very put together.
As a matter of fact I have to french twist myself to go to a jobfair this afternoon.

CorinaS
November 8th, 2011, 03:43 AM
Personally I think long hair is gorgeous on both men and women, but that's just my opinion. Men around my aren't too concerned with hair and usually care more about other features (face&body). I do think however that having long flowing hair shows that you more "available" and you want to attract. It's like wearing red lipstick or blush: it doesn't make you more beautiful, but it's an eye-catcher.

morrigan*
November 8th, 2011, 05:51 AM
I do think however that having long flowing hair shows that you more "available" and you want to attract. It's like wearing red lipstick or blush: it doesn't make you more beautiful, but it's an eye-catcher.

Actually I have never though about hair in that way, but i must admit that long, healthy hair is eyecatching.

pepperminttea
November 8th, 2011, 06:19 AM
There was one line I liked about this:


Because, really, what’s sexier than a woman who, like Williams, says she feels comfortable with herself?

If the "beauty" industry took that idea seriously, what a different world it'd be.

freckles
November 8th, 2011, 06:28 AM
I think a lot of these articles try to make a case for something somehow being 'innately' more attractive, when really it is just currently 'fashionable' (i.e. mainstream perceptions of whether it is attractive change over time).

ETA: and of course, while individual opinions of certain features being attractive or unattractive broadly (very broadly) follow fashion, there is never 'agreement'. Individual opinions still vary widely. So these generalisations about what people find attractive are only helpful for following society-wide trends, and are pretty irrelevant for individuals. I don't think "nearly every straight man on the planet" finds long hair attractive. :lol:

xoxophelia
November 8th, 2011, 07:05 AM
To me long healthy hair is the most beautiful a head of hair can possibly be. But, that doesn't mean it is the most fitting for the person as a whole or it is the style they like. I really do think scalp hair is one of those evolved feautures humans have that is akin to our peacock feathers. Growing it so it flows better in the wind, shows off the shine/texture better is an obvious way to make it more attractive. However, we also have complex minds and societies where style counts for something. So people are capable of having their preferences for various reasons.

The article itself kind of sounded like somebody trying to convince themselves that short hair is sexy. It can be but I don't see the point of writing this article with the attitude of +1 for the short team. They should have said more so that sexy is a word that is free to be defined by anybody and there is no one set standard.

LocustSpawning
November 8th, 2011, 07:09 AM
I cannot stand articles like this. They have zero substance and are just 'fillers'. Totally ridiculous to speak for so many people at once, there are SO many varied preferences it's crazy.

For me, personally, I *do* prefer long hair on both men and women. But I know a lot of people who disagree with me.

Lucky
November 8th, 2011, 07:21 AM
:shrug: I don't know, I think it really comes down to a "to each his own" kind of thing and the confidence you exude. Personally I find longer hair more attractive, but there are always exceptions to that rule. Like Michelle Williams or Emma Watson, I think they both look stunning with short hair. On the one hand, I do think that it takes a bit more moxie for a woman to wear a very short hair style, but you could also argue that it takes a lot of guts for women to wear very long hair styles, since anything longer than BSL is often criticized, particularly for women who are "of a certain age" as the saying goes (I consider myself part of that group, bty, :))

Lilli
November 8th, 2011, 07:42 AM
I just love when we fight about what "everyone" likes or what "guys like." :cheese:

Amber_Maiden
November 8th, 2011, 07:55 AM
I personally think she looks better with the short hair, younger. I find short hair looks good on some people, not so good on others. I think the reason why some men like it is because it's the opposite of what they have. Most men have short hair to conform to society's standards...

duchesswannabe
November 8th, 2011, 08:00 AM
I don't think "nearly every straight
man on the planet" finds long hair attractive. :lol:

A few years ago I worked for a man who loved my short haircuts and wished his wife would cut hers shorter. By the way, the man is my age almost to the day (now we are in our 50s). So, it may be generational in this case.

My husband was always supportive of my short hairstyles; when he first saw me in a short haircut he thought it enhanced my appearance; now he confesses he thinks long hair suits me better because it frames my face more flatteringly, whereas shorter hair would tend to look as if it were growing horizontally on my head if I didn't keep up the thinning.

I used to be indifferent to men with long hair until several months ago when I saw a brunette man walking along the river with such stunning, blowing-in-the-wind hair that I never looked at a man with long hair the same again. Sometimes all it takes is one
terrific example to open up your mind to other people's styles.

florenonite
November 8th, 2011, 08:07 AM
ETA: and this: "Sometimes, short hair is the beer gut for ladies." is offensive on so many levels, to so many women, I do not even bother to comment on it. The entire article is a load of :poop: if you want my "interesting input."

I like my fiancé's "not beer because he's teetotal"-gut, thank you very much. It's comfy :p

As for the rest of the article, I think it might actually be an ill-executed attempt at denying all the efforts to pigeonhole women's hairstyles and to divine meaning from them. I say this because of this excerpt from the final paragraph:


But for plenty of women, hair is just a canvas upon which to creatively express themselves. For them, short hair isn’t an admission of defeat – it’s an expression of a style that doesn’t have to fit into the Anne Hathaway mold. The notion that our hair has to conform to rigid parameters is as ludicrous as the idea that our bodies do.

This suggests that the author is actually trying to say that hair is just hair, and most women style it as they do simply for reasons of personal preference. However, the wording of the preceding paragraphs suggests an agreement with the usual generalisations about short hair and thus, rather than being an argument in favour of hair as a matter of aesthetic, it becomes a wishy-washy article spewing up the usual rubbish about 'what men want' and 'short hair = rebellion'.

spike316
November 8th, 2011, 10:53 AM
I always read (in more scientifically based articles than this) that long hair is a sign of fertility and good health much like the ideal hip to waist ratio. That being said, my current boyfriend prefers long hair, but doesn't really care either way; but I had an ex who loved the short hair that I had when I was dating him. Meh.

battles
November 8th, 2011, 11:02 AM
Aiiiiii.

These articles are beyond ridiculous.

SteelRose
November 8th, 2011, 11:46 AM
I think people look best in whatever length makes them most comfortable and happiest in their own skin. Nothing is more attractive than confidence. I look ridiculous with short hair, but I've known women that could shave their heads and look absolutely fabulous. When it's over 100 degrees here I sometimes wish I could pull it off! Articles like this are just filler full of nonsense to be ignored.

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 12:53 PM
I used to think there was a huge biological component to this, with only a marginal amount of the cultural thrown in, but now I think it's mostly cultural and not biological. Why? Because if long, thick, healthy, etc. hair were the image of fertility and health, we'd be just as crazy in western culture about long-haired men as we are about long-haired women. Right?

Men and women grow hair to approximately equal terminal length, overall.

Yep, it's cultural...plus personal preference. I *personally* believe where the biological comes in is with the health of the hair, the color, etc. and not really the length so much.

Rybe
November 8th, 2011, 12:53 PM
I can see if your hair makes you look like your dying of a horrible disease it might turn most men off. But that's pretty hard to have if you're NOT ill (though I've met people who've certainly tried their hardest!) I've had guy friends who specifically profess to liking short hair, and guys who specifically like long hair. I know my husband would sadface if I hacked all my hair off. But I'll sadface when he has to cut all his hair off too, so we're even! (Curse you! Genetics!!) And I know women who hate men with long hair etc etc...The generalizations are all quite silly

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 12:57 PM
Personally I think long hair is gorgeous on both men and women, but that's just my opinion. Men around my aren't too concerned with hair and usually care more about other features (face&body). I do think however that having long flowing hair shows that you more "available" and you want to attract. It's like wearing red lipstick or blush: it doesn't make you more beautiful, but it's an eye-catcher.

Well, plus it displays your personality, whatever that may be, which is just another way of signaling to like-minded people. "Hey, I like to have fun with XYZ. And in general, I just love eyes. Do you like to have fun with XYZ too?" (simplification, obviously)

"Changing" our appearance is very normal and we all do it ever day...unless we wear long pieces of draped brown cotton every day, industrial style eyeglasses and no jewelry or hair toys. ;)

I think makeup is fun. :) It doesn't change *who* I am...in fact, applied correctly, it amplifies who I am, and makes a statement.

BrightEyes
November 8th, 2011, 01:08 PM
Whenever I show articles like this to my DH he laughs and rolls his eyes. He has always said that he prefers me with short hair. I too really like short hair on myself, although I also want to discover if long hair suits me as well.

I think what is most important is that women (and men) feel confident and happy with themselves and their appearance.

PinkyCat
November 8th, 2011, 01:17 PM
For some reason the article sounds angry to me. Like they're trying to bash those darned longhairs or something.

invisiblebabe
November 8th, 2011, 01:52 PM
I think it's mostly just that many men tend to like what is most common because it is what they see most often on women and associate with femininity because of that. At least where I live, most women do not have pixie cuts, nor do they have waist+ hair. Women where I live tend to have chin-length to BSL hair, and that is what most men around here tend to like best. (There are exceptions, of course.)

People also notice and are attracted to confidence. If YOU like your hair, then that will show, and people will like that, too.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Well, plus it displays your personality, whatever that may be, which is just another way of signaling to like-minded people. "Hey, I like to have fun with XYZ. And in general, I just love eyes. Do you like to have fun with XYZ too?" (simplification, obviously)

Well that's all fine and dandy except for women who choose not to wear make up. Their personality is interpreted to be "lazy" or "boring." "Matronly," "plain." etc. My personality is none of those things and I don't wear make up, mostly because I find myself pretty enough without it and I don't want to give my money to an industry that feeds off the insecurities of 50% of the population.

It makes me angry because you have to spend an hour dolling yourself up in the morning to look "normal." Normal should be what we look like before we do all that stuff. And no, that doesn't mean wearing potato sacks and sunglasses all the time which isn't even practical. :rolleyes:

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 03:43 PM
On topic...

This article makes the assumption that the reader bases their personal care decisions on what men find attractive. My opinion is... hey let's just stop doing that, OK?

infinity_girl
November 8th, 2011, 04:29 PM
I do think *most* men prefer women to have longer hair. Not all, but certainly most. I also think a lot of men don't seem to link fringes (bangs) or at least almost all my ex-boyfriends and my husband. I think you have to have a very feminine, pretty face to be able to carry off the pixie/elfin haircut. I think Michelle Williams suits it perfectly. I think it is a great haircut, just as I think long hair looks cool. I like all types of hairstyles and think each hairstyle looks different on each individual. Even a mullet might look great on someone that could really pull it off and make it look edgy.

It's kind of weird though as I think long hair on a man normally makes them look more masculine and sexy (e.g. Jason Mamoa in Game of Thrones - hubba hubba :D).

ravenreed
November 8th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Actually, I am in the minority where I live because I wear makeup. I don't see many women wearing it. I am not sure what it signals about me, other than I like bold, bright colors. I didn't wear makeup for years and most days I don't put any on at all. I am the same person with and without it. I do feel perkier with makeup on, and since I tend toward dolefulness, I often wear makeup when I am feeling under the weather.

FWIW, I can throw on a face full of makeup in about the same time I can do my hair. I enjoy doing different and unusual things with both my hair and my makeup, for similar reasons. It has very little to do with the current beauty/fashion standards, btw. I haven't opened a fashion magazine in years.


Well that's all fine and dandy except for women who choose not to wear make up. Their personality is interpreted to be "lazy" or "boring." "Matronly," "plain." etc. My personality is none of those things and I don't wear make up, mostly because I find myself pretty enough without it and I don't want to give my money to an industry that feeds off the insecurities of 50% of the population.

It makes me angry because you have to spend an hour dolling yourself up in the morning to look "normal." Normal should be what we look like before we do all that stuff. And no, that doesn't mean wearing potato sacks and sunglasses all the time which isn't even practical. :rolleyes:

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 04:44 PM
I do think *most* men prefer women to have longer hair. Not all, but certainly most. I also think a lot of men don't seem to link fringes (bangs) or at least almost all my ex-boyfriends and my husband. I think you have to have a very feminine, pretty face to be able to carry off the pixie/elfin haircut. I think Michelle Williams suits it perfectly. I think it is a great haircut, just as I think long hair looks cool. I like all types of hairstyles and think each hairstyle looks different on each individual. Even a mullet might look great on someone that could really pull it off and make it look edgy.

Okay but who cares? What makes a male's (or most male's) opinion so fantastic, anyway? Is the only purpose of our hair to make men think sexy thoughts about us?

I rocked a pixie and I have a boyish face. It looked alright, most people thought it was "cute." My DH did not stop having sex with me so I guess I could consider it "successful.":rolleyes:

And mullets are never okay! (I lived in Delaware too long, lol!)
ETA: David Bowie can wear mullets but that's it.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Actually, I am in the minority where I live because I wear makeup. I don't see many women wearing it. I am not sure what it signals about me, other than I like bold, bright colors. I didn't wear makeup for years and most days I don't put any on at all. I am the same person with and without it. I do feel perkier with makeup on, and since I tend toward dolefulness, I often wear makeup when I am feeling under the weather.

FWIW, I can throw on a face full of makeup in about the same time I can do my hair. I enjoy doing different and unusual things with both my hair and my makeup, for similar reasons. It has very little to do with the current beauty/fashion standards, btw. I haven't opened a fashion magazine in years.

Yeah but we shouldn't do anything to look or feel normal. Do you know what I mean? Normal should just be our baseline selves. And normal should be acceptable. I actually think it's great that where you live normal is no-make up and so you can spend some time and wear some make up to feel special. That's the way it should be, a form of self-expression. I'm just saying that when you have to wear make up just to be acceptable it is out of hand.

And I understand that regionally my perspective may be irrelevant. I live in New Jersey so there you go.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 05:02 PM
Deleting. This post was neither here nor there. I'm just in rant mode, please move along. :D

jacqueline101
November 8th, 2011, 05:03 PM
My theory is hair is a reflection of the person who wears it. Some people since the beginning of dawn have been trying to make themselves look like fashion icons.

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Well that's all fine and dandy except for women who choose not to wear make up. Their personality is interpreted to be "lazy" or "boring." "Matronly," "plain." etc. My personality is none of those things and I don't wear make up, mostly because I find myself pretty enough without it and I don't want to give my money to an industry that feeds off the insecurities of 50% of the population.

(Bolding mine) Oh absolutely. By *some* people. And *some* people pick on women who do wear makeup, saying they're desperately fighting old age (apparently the cruelest barb one can inflict upon someone, at least in my age group, because it's pulled out like Tic Tacs any time anyone wants to wound a 40-something woman...kind of comical actually), look like tramps, are fakes/phonies, probably are gold-diggers looking to trap this or that dude, are trying to hide/cover something up, don't know "who we really are," are slaves, sheeple, etc. You can't go anywhere on this planet without someone picking at what you do; you can either listen or not. But if you started wearing makeup tomorrow, trust me, there would be something else to criticize.

Why isn't wearing a potato sack practical? Or even just something plain, robe-ish, knee-ish length and undyed. :) Also, I didn't say sunglasses. I was talking about undecorated, industrial, boring eyeglasses. Should I have said eyeglasses? I wear mine 24/7 which is likely why I automatically thought of this. Anyone I know who wears eyeglasses spends a good long time picking out a pair that expresses the person he or she is, etc.

Of course you, or anyone, could go around very, very undecorated. If you have any color preferences, any style preferences, any jewelry preferences, any colors in your home you like, any type or color of car you like, any house color you like...then yes, like the majority of the population, you do indeed care about how you present yourself, even if only to yourself (which is fine), and you do indeed decorate what's yours. ;) If you don't, that's okay too. I'm not "ah-ha!"-ing you there. :p

Absolutely, some people are slaves to what others think, and there is indeed an industry built around that; many industries, in fact. Businesspeople look for something people will cash in on, and they make that thing. That's business. (shrug) If a person is literally a slave to all that, to every new trend; if he or she feels like shyte unless he or she is literally dolled up with an hour worth of work in the morning as you describe (I spend about five or six minutes on my makeup each day, personally, but I do love wearing it), there's something deep in there that the person needs to work on.

No, that doesn't mean the fashion industry has *no* effect at all; of course it has an effect. But that much of an effect? In that case, taking away every piece of makeup this very day wouldn't cure such a person of his or her insecurity. No way. That person would have issues either way and we could not possibly erase every possible trigger for that person. I wish! I know what it is to feel insecure. But I also know real life is real life, business is business and we *do* love to decorate ourselves, and have for at least, well, I don't know...28,000 years, I think? (based on cave paintings and jewelry) I don't think that's going away any time soon.

I don't think the beauty industry is wonderful or anything; like many businesses, it preys on a certain insecurity or set of them. But I don't think it's a 100% evil entity either...(shrug) I think we're supposed to make our own choices in life.

I'm not ashamed at all that I like to play with makeup. It's one fun thing of a few fun things that I'm able to do during a day filled with responsibilities. Kind of like the internet. ;)

geminiwoman
November 8th, 2011, 06:18 PM
My theory, as a single woman, is that it doesn't really matter what 'most' men like. I just do what *I* want, and try to find a guy who likes me like that. Right now I am growing for both length and natural color, but my hair color and style are both subject to radical changes, usually done on a whim. So any man I am with will need to be ok with surprises!


The writers of these articles may never believe it, but I get tons more male attention with a pixie :)

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 06:26 PM
On topic...

This article makes the assumption that the reader bases their personal care decisions on what men find attractive. My opinion is... hey let's just stop doing that, OK?

Agree! Oh, okay, I'm pretty sure I see what you're saying now. Yes, I personally agree that that's silly. It's pretty much impossible to do anything that "everyone" is going to like, whether it's every man, every woman or every whomever. As Wayne Campbell said, "Led Zeppelin didn't try to please everybody. They left that to the Bee Gees." :cheese:

It's likely the writer had a quota to fulfill, was told her blog must be "edgy and opinionated" (I'm a writer and this is the phrase that we see constantly when a blogging assignment is put out there) and the writer thought she was doing that. This would be my guess, anyway. Doesn't mean she was right...just that she needed $15!

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 06:29 PM
Okay but who cares? What makes a male's (or most male's) opinion so fantastic, anyway?.

Okay, well now, wait a minute. Why aren't people allowed to care? I'm fascinated in all kinds of different things, personally. I LOVE reading about the psychology behind various things we do. Obviously this article doesn't make a great example, as it's more opinion than psychology...but why shouldn't we have the right to wonder what we wonder, and think about things like this?

I can see you're passionate about this but it really is anyone's choice to read what we want to read and think about what we want to think about. And yes, I do understand you're upset about people taking such things to heart...but given the responses here, it seems doubtful that all or even most women agree with such things, so not to worry. :) Really. We're pretty much all smarter than that, at least once we get past the 8th grade.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 06:43 PM
I'm sorry GlennaGirl I don't think we're talking on the same frequency here.

It's a sexist issue. Do you think men go around reading articles about what kind of hair women like? But women obsess over it and base a lot of their decisions on it, or at least we are supposed to.

Why is it considered unprofessional for a woman to not wear make up when men would never even think of it? Why do women cover up gray hair and most men do not? It is because a woman's worth is measured in her ability to attract men. It is hard for an unattractive woman to get respect, and this is not true for men.

It's unfair, I tell you! It needs to stop. A woman should be entitled to respect regardless of how she looks.

RitaPG
November 8th, 2011, 06:48 PM
The way I understand it, long hair does have a bigger impact the first time you meet someone (though I have met a couple guys that seem more partial to short haircuts on the ladies)
But an awesome woman will always be awesome, pixie styled or not :D
And if a person puts the length of hair of the opposite sex on their standards, then they probably aren't much of a man/woman to begin with.

The way I see it, it's just another trend. This summer it was cool to have it short and heavily razored, now they want thick, wavy, long hair with bangs. The articles are there to "push" you into what's cool now, even if it means having a beautiful woman complaining that her hair isn't good enough (fwiw I love that blonde pixie style, it suits her face beautifully)

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 06:51 PM
I'm sorry GlennaGirl I don't think we're talking on the same frequency here.

It's a sexist issue. Do you think men go around reading articles about what kind of hair women like? But women obsess over it and base a lot of their decisions on it, or at least we are supposed to.

Why is it considered unprofessional for a woman to not wear make up when men would never even think of it? Why do women cover up gray hair and most men do not? It is because a woman's worth is measured in her ability to attract men. It is hard for an unattractive woman to get respect, and this is not true for men.

It's unfair, I tell you! It needs to stop. A woman should be entitled to respect regardless of how she looks.

I think men only sometimes read articles about their own hair and its attractiveness to women... ;) I think if they didn't care, there wouldn't be a gajillion-dollar Rogaine and hair implant industry. ;)

They also read about -- or ask about, or try to somehow find out about -- whether they're going to be considered successful by women in the business world, whether they're suave enough, whether they're saying the right things on a first date, why they're expected to show their loyalty by showing how much they're tied to their own families, yet are accused of being emotionally unhinged if they don't take the wife or girlfriend's side "over" the mother, sister, etc., and a million other confusing, contradictory and basically impossible-to-implement things that society "requires" of them (to the same extent society "requires" makeup of women).

I think men are supposed to be soft, but not "too" soft...whatever that is; macho but not "too" macho; successful (read: rich), drive a great car, have a career that "means something", be great with kids yet be sexy and dashing, know how and when to be romantic, be athletic, etc., etc., etc.

Men are supposed to be John Wayne and John cryer at the same time. Oh, with a touch of rockabilly but not when it's a "serious moment." This Renaissance man is also supposed to "know how to talk to women" (even though no two women are exactly alike). Let's not forget that this admirable-to-women male should be hoisting around a lot of money which he receives for doing something charitable, without being pretentious about it, of course...Is "male-run" society really any less harsh and realistic on standards for men than for women?

And I think the percentage of men who fall for all that, and are "slaves" to it, is about equal to the percentage of women who fall for all our supposed "requirements," and fall slaves to that.

But I think that far fewer do than you're thinking...just based on seeing how such an article can be skewered in seconds and not just on here! :p Anywhere...by pretty much any age group and both sexes. Again, my personal feeling is you're seeing this phenomena in a somewhat exaggerated way. But that's just my feeling.

I won't answer again as I can see you're passionate about this and why kill someone's passion? But if you're worried on behalf of all the other women in the world...don't be. ;) We're fine...and not so very much of us as you may think, are total slaves to beauty, fashion or what men "want."

That's about all I have to say about the subject because I feel like I'm getting you upset. I understand, there are things I'm passionate about too.

GlennaGirl
November 8th, 2011, 06:54 PM
The way I understand it, long hair does have a bigger impact the first time you meet someone (though I have met a couple guys that seem more partial to short haircuts on the ladies)
But an awesome woman will always be awesome, pixie styled or not :D
And if a person puts the length of hair of the opposite sex on their standards, then they probably aren't much of a man/woman to begin with.

The way I see it, it's just another trend. This summer it was cool to have it short and heavily razored, now they want thick, wavy, long hair with bangs. The articles are there to "push" you into what's cool now, even if it means having a beautiful woman complaining that her hair isn't good enough (fwiw I love that blonde pixie style, it suits her face beautifully)

OMG, not really, HEAVY BANGS ARE IN???? :D Are you talking about blunt ones, not side-swept? I love this, I find if I do what I sincerely feel looks good on me, then about every 8-10-ish years...sometimes a little bit more...whatever's "cool" somehow crosses over what I'm doing at that time. :p Awesome. I will enjoy this for a few months and will look forward to being accidentally trendy again eventually! See you all on the society pages in 2021. :cheese: Bwah.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 07:20 PM
@Glenna- I agree that men have equal pressure to fill a certain pigeon holed role, but there is no denying the fact that men who don't fit the role can still get respect but women who don't fit the role can't. Three words for you: Joe Nameth's Pantyhose. Three more words: Hillary Clinton's Facelift

It's not your point of view that upsets me, or the point of view of any individual person or even of the majority of people. It is the point of view of the fashion/beauty industry, as evidenced by the article (and countless others). I'm probably more passionate about it because I have two baby girls and I often think about what they're exposed to an how it may affect their body image growing up and what kind of world they are going to be living in.

I think that the view of the media and the fashion magazines should reflect the view of the majority of people, but it doesn't. It reflects the view of a select group of "experts," and then they impose their views on us via the media. Adults are not generally affected by this, as you have evidenced, but children and teenagers are. I know I was.

As far as make up use goes, I'm not talking about women like you who obviously enjoy it and would use it whether or not there was societal pressure. I'm talking about all the women who do it just because they "have to," or they feel like they're ugly if they don't. They shouldn't! I'm an advocate for... whatever you are is OKAY!

It is possible to be beautiful without wearing make up, having acrylic or painted nails, dying your hair. Most people would agree with this but how many practice it? How many of us have appreciated our beauty without saying, "I need this to look better." There is a jump from "decorating" oneself to "beautifying" oneself. A jump between, "I think this is so pretty" and "I would not look pretty without this." It is the difference between self-expression and self-depreciation.

You don't have to stop responding for my sake. I am capable of removing myself from a conversation if I can't handle it.

racrane
November 8th, 2011, 09:34 PM
Well, hair does go through styles. I do think people are fascinated by long hair now because short hair is so popular, but it doesn't mean short hair is out of style. People like what they like, no shame in that. A girl I know rocks a pixie and she has the cutest style - boys love her. And my boyfriend himself loved my SL hair and is kind of sad I'm growing my hair long.

PixxieStix
November 8th, 2011, 09:40 PM
Can't say I really agree at all with that article. Hell, when I was BALD I had no problems turning heads if I was in the mood to do so, (lol, and I could tell between the "shock from a woman being bald" from "daaaaaang" looks ;D ) because really, the most important thing any woman can wear is confidence. It never goes out of style. ;)

KwaveT
November 8th, 2011, 10:42 PM
@Glenna- I agree that men have equal pressure to fill a certain pigeon holed role, but there is no denying the fact that men who don't fit the role can still get respect but women who don't fit the role can't. Three words for you: Joe Nameth's Pantyhose. Three more words: Hillary Clinton's Facelift

It's not your point of view that upsets me, or the point of view of any individual person or even of the majority of people. It is the point of view of the fashion/beauty industry, as evidenced by the article (and countless others). I'm probably more passionate about it because I have two baby girls and I often think about what they're exposed to an how it may affect their body image growing up and what kind of world they are going to be living in.

I think that the view of the media and the fashion magazines should reflect the view of the majority of people, but it doesn't. It reflects the view of a select group of "experts," and then they impose their views on us via the media. Adults are not generally affected by this, as you have evidenced, but children and teenagers are. I know I was.

As far as make up use goes, I'm not talking about women like you who obviously enjoy it and would use it whether or not there was societal pressure. I'm talking about all the women who do it just because they "have to," or they feel like they're ugly if they don't. They shouldn't! I'm an advocate for... whatever you are is OKAY!

It is possible to be beautiful without wearing make up, having acrylic or painted nails, dying your hair. Most people would agree with this but how many practice it? How many of us have appreciated our beauty without saying, "I need this to look better." There is a jump from "decorating" oneself to "beautifying" oneself. A jump between, "I think this is so pretty" and "I would not look pretty without this." It is the difference between self-expression and self-depreciation.

You don't have to stop responding for my sake. I am capable of removing myself from a conversation if I can't handle it.

I am going to chime in with my opinion on your post to pantyhose comment above and all its ramifications. You are saying that men that don't fit gender roles can get respect. I am proof that is not the case. I grow long fingernails, use a purse, use women' clothing (including capris, tights, hose, heels, even skirts), process of growing long hair, shave much of myself including my legs. I most definitely lose respect. I get belittled by my own family and even from others behind my back and occasionally even to my face from others besides family. I most definitely say women have much more freedom of expression than men do. Women can get away from pushing masculine boundaries while men can't get away with pushing feminine boundaries. We use to have a female employee who dressed in all men's clothing. She got away with it. They said nothing to here. If men did the same thing they would get fired. I got pulled in office for my pants being too short. Men can never get away with capris in work place as much as I wish I could wear them at work. In department I work women have four choices (pants, shorts, skirts, capris). Men only allowed to use pants. I am sorry but I think that is entirely unfair. Needless to say I don't get respect that other men do for the choices I exercise. Despite exercising these choices I can't do them in the workplace. If you can't tell I am passionate about my opinion on this too.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 11:18 PM
I am going to chime in with my opinion on your post to pantyhose comment above and all its ramifications. You are saying that men that don't fit gender roles can get respect. I am proof that is not the case. I grow long fingernails, use a purse, use women' clothing (including capris, tights, hose, heels, even skirts), process of growing long hair, shave much of myself including my legs. I most definitely lose respect. I get belittled by my own family and even from others behind my back and occasionally even to my face from others besides family. I most definitely say women have much more freedom of expression than men do. Women can get away from pushing masculine boundaries while men can't get away with pushing feminine boundaries. We use to have a female employee who dressed in all men's clothing. She got away with it. They said nothing to here. If men did the same thing they would get fired. I got pulled in office for my pants being too short. Men can never get away with capris in work place as much as I wish I could wear them at work. In department I work women have four choices (pants, shorts, skirts, capris). Men only allowed to use pants. I am sorry but I think that is entirely unfair. Needless to say I don't get respect that other men do for the choices I exercise. Despite exercising these choices I can't do them in the workplace. If you can't tell I am passionate about my opinion on this too.

Generalizations obviously don't extend to all circumstances.

The thing with the dress code is entirely unfair. If any member of the office can have long hair, or fingernails or wear shorter pants then everyone should be able to! None of it is distracting or offensive. Gah!

You are just ahead of your time. I believe that some day our society will accept these things. In this way consider yourself a pioneer for all the young men who come after you who will have more freedom of choice.

holothuroidea
November 8th, 2011, 11:21 PM
When you've never lived someone else's life it is easy to say, "You have it easier!" In reality, this gender-polarizing is not good for anyone and we all suffer from it.

taimatsuko
November 8th, 2011, 11:22 PM
I can't speak for what men like in general, I see men with women of all hair lengths but i can say what I've seen in my own life.

Men love me with long hair. Specifically, men my age love the long hair. I used to get extensions a lot and I always noticed that guys who didn't know I existed one day would suddenly pay tons of attention to me. It got to the point where I got a bit of a complex about it and although I love hair extensions, I don't feel like I can date anyone that's seen me with them because I feel that they like the illusion and not myself.

That went off topic a bit but in my personal life guys my age love the long hair. Older men... older men like me no matter what!:p

KwaveT
November 9th, 2011, 07:25 AM
Generalizations obviously don't extend to all circumstances.

The thing with the dress code is entirely unfair. If any member of the office can have long hair, or fingernails or wear shorter pants then everyone should be able to! None of it is distracting or offensive. Gah!

You are just ahead of your time. I believe that some day our society will accept these things. In this way consider yourself a pioneer for all the young men who come after you who will have more freedom of choice.

I do get away with long fingernails for now. I have been made to cut them several times in the past. Obviously women aren't bothered for having long fingernails. Gender polarization is what gets on my nerves. I have seen a few of the men with long hair, mostly dreads so not me, so we can get away with that. I work as retail cashier so this is not office environment.

GlennaGirl
November 9th, 2011, 09:40 AM
I do get away with long fingernails for now. I have been made to cut them several times in the past. Obviously women aren't bothered for having long fingernails. Gender polarization is what gets on my nerves. I have seen a few of the men with long hair, mostly dreads so not me, so we can get away with that. I work as retail cashier so this is not office environment.

Move out here, KwaveT. :) Even the little boys have long hair probably 10-20% of the time (I mean long-long, not just "below the ears") and I've seen every possible type of dress that exists when it comes to retail environments... :p And they're all nice. That's what counts...

Mythica
November 9th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Same old :bs:

Or that pixie-haired blonde girl I saw passionately kissing her boyfriend on the tram must have been totally unreal. :rolleyes:

"Nearly every straight man on the planet..." where do I even start with this...? :confused:

ETA: and this: "Sometimes, short hair is the beer gut for ladies." is offensive on so many levels, to so many women, I do not even bother to comment on it. The entire article is a load of :poop: if you want my "interesting input."

Hahaha! That's almost exactly what I was going to say. :Star: :Star: :Star: :Star: :Star:

I like the Sinead look myself and would probably try it if I had the features for it, but I'd have to start my long hair journey all over again. And since long hair is what I want more than short hair, long hair definitely wins out.
I think there's a lot of articles that really over-analyze what women (and men) do with their hair (and anything else). As long as it's healthy, well taken care of, and they like it, there's nothing to really talk about.

LadyJennifer
November 9th, 2011, 12:09 PM
I think it's a good article. It's obviously an opinion piece, and she doesn't make any absolutes. I agree with her "sometimes short hair is a beer gut for women." she says "sometimes" which is totally true.
I like her last statement:

"But for plenty of women, hair is just a canvas upon which to creatively express themselves. For them, short hair isn’t an admission of defeat – it’s an expression of a style that doesn’t have to fit into the Anne Hathaway mold. The notion that our hair has to conform to rigid parameters is as ludicrous as the idea that our bodies do. Because, really, what’s sexier than a woman who, like Williams, says she feels comfortable with herself? And if the little girls and straight men don’t quite get it, it’s a good thing that the woman gorgeous enough to embody Marilyn Monroe, the goddess whose own platinum tresses frequently never grazed her shoulders, does."

As for me, I think long hair has such a beautiful mystery to it. I think most women look more beautiful with it. That's just IMO:)

holothuroidea
November 9th, 2011, 12:22 PM
Maybe it is true about the short hair being the "beer gut of women."

Older hair can be difficult to grow long. It gets drier and more brittle. I don't think we should be labeled as having given up simply for recognizing the limits of our hair. The "beer gut" is the same way, though. Your metabolism changes as you age and it's difficult to maintain a waste of whatever inches. Plenty of healthy older men have beer guts for this reason and not out of overeating or laziness.

So hey let's just get rid of the idea that it's not okay to be older.

Amraann
November 9th, 2011, 01:10 PM
My Virus software detected a trojan trying to download from the link..

papera
November 9th, 2011, 01:40 PM
I agree with most users, everyone, regardless of gender, should decide what they wanna do with their hair, let it grow, cut it short, dye it in rainbow colors ... at the end we have to feel good and confident with whom we are and not what some fashion thinks we should be!

lizdini
November 9th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Eh. My husband liked my hair short, and I liked it long.

HairFaerie
November 9th, 2011, 03:58 PM
From my experience...I got WAY more attention from men with my short, platinum pixie than any other hair length/color I have had throughout my life.

Orangerthanred
November 9th, 2011, 04:59 PM
Bull poop.

Long hair can be beautiful on the right person. Short hair can be beautiful on the right person. Neither are 'more' beautiful. It just depends on the person.

Elia
November 9th, 2011, 06:10 PM
I think it depends on the person and the confidence they show. I don't think there's anything overly conformist about liking long hair, it's just that it *can* be conformist; in the sense that people who are looking to fit in will like long hair, but people who like longer hair aren't always looking to fit in is something society needs to realize. (They apply that logic to too many things...) Most men I talk to think that women can look good with short hair, if it flatters them. I will admit that longer hair tends to be more universal which is why I think people generalize and say they like longer hair. I really do think some people look absolutely amazing with short hair as well. There is the same social stigma with men as well, as men with medium or long hair can often times be viewed negatively. Even though I think it looks sexy...if pulled off well and suits them. Which is true for everything. But even if it doesn't suit you, and you want short hair, or long hair, do what you want and find someone that will love you for it either way. You can't change society easily, but you can choose whose opinions matter most to you besides your own.

CorinaS
November 10th, 2011, 04:30 AM
I don't understand why people mention only long hair and pixie hair, because most haircuts are in between, at least in my country. A pixie haircut is great if you have a perfect or an almost perfect face, but if your chin is too wide, your nose too big or your forehead too narrow, than I don't think you'll look good in it. Of course, there are a lot of hairstyles to choose from, that can emphasize your nice traits and hide the not so nice ones. There a lot of articles on the net on this subject. For exemple:

http://www.thehairstyler.com/features/articles/hairstyles/the-right-hairstyle-for-your-face-shape

Body type is also important, as you can see in this article:
http://beauty.about.com/od/cutcoloradvice/ss/sizesandhair.htm

The hair itself matters a lot: very short and curly can make a person look like a sheep, while rare thin hair should be kept short to appear it has more volume. Also long hair in very bright colours (green, blue, pink) can look trashy.

In my case, I look better with longer hair: my hair being thick, fluffy and frizzy, made my face look very small and even the rest of my body, so I looked like a 12-year old: not bad, but too "innocent". On my mother, however, it looks great, because she looks younger.

Regarding men's opinion, my father doesn't like long hair, he thinks it's a lot of trouble for nothing. I heard guys tell girls, that they look like witches with long hair, or that their hair looks like fur, or that girls with long hair are either vain or old fashioned. On the other hand, several guys told me my hair is beautiful, even though I bearly knew them. Personally I think it's easier to turn heads with long hair, but it's not a rule.

mrs_coffee
November 10th, 2011, 06:48 AM
I wore a pixie for most of my adult life and never had any trouble attracting admirers. It annoys Brent when someone says "Men like (x, y, z)" because they're individuals with individual preferences. Generalizations are never a good idea.

When Michelle Williams says she "feels like herself" with short hair, I totally get what she is saying. I do too.

Rosetta
November 10th, 2011, 07:20 AM
Only two words...

BE YOURSELF.

And wear it on your sleeve...whether that means short or long hair, dark or light, wavy or straight... Whatever is you and feels right will make you happy and attractive.
This!! +++ :blossom: Couldn't have said it better.


I agree. Why do people even bother writing these articles? One minute short hair is unattractive, the next long hair is. There's no content to these things at all, just the beauty industry's musings in an attempt to make women feel inadequate so that they spend more money trying to "improve" their appearance.
Yeah, this is clearly the reason, plus they do have to fill their pages (or webpages) somehow, I guess :wink:

Orangerthanred
November 10th, 2011, 07:20 AM
I think the whole body type and hairstyle thing is also bull poop. I'm quite short and thin [petite, I guess], but short hair makes my face look small and my shoulders extremely wide.

Long hair on the other hand does not 'drown me out'. It actually flatters my body... which is the opposite of what that link said.

prosperina
November 10th, 2011, 07:42 AM
A bit off topic: I didn't think Marilyn Monroe had a pixie like the one Michelle Willams has in the photo??? :confused: Certainly MM had short hair, but not a pixie! (And for the record. there's nothing wrong with a pixie.)

Monkey962
November 10th, 2011, 07:57 AM
Interesting, I would love to hear what mens think about this?

I think most of the men here (myself included) will generally prefer long-haired women. We are on a long hair site after all!

Just by looking at Ms. Williams picture, I find her face very beautiful, o course, and I do think her hair does suit her well, but I sort of feel... disinterested in it. It's weird...:confused: I tell ya what is beautiful is her reason for keeping it short. I love that she keeps it that way even though she notices that only gay men and her girlfriends like it.


I used to think there was a huge biological component to this, with only a marginal amount of the cultural thrown in, but now I think it's mostly cultural and not biological. Why? Because if long, thick, healthy, etc. hair were the image of fertility and health, we'd be just as crazy in western culture about long-haired men as we are about long-haired women. Right?

Men and women grow hair to approximately equal terminal length, overall.

Yep, it's cultural...plus personal preference. I *personally* believe where the biological comes in is with the health of the hair, the color, etc. and not really the length so much.

Interesting thought. I would have assumed it was a biological thing for the same reason. I think it could definitely be more cultural because culture dictates that I have short hair.


On topic...

This article makes the assumption that the reader bases their personal care decisions on what men find attractive. My opinion is... hey let's just stop doing that, OK?

Yes, this. I would find it more attractive if a person did their own thing, rocked their own style, especially in the face of everyone disliking it.

CorinaS
November 10th, 2011, 08:52 AM
I think the whole body type and hairstyle thing is also bull poop. I'm quite short and thin [petite, I guess], but short hair makes my face look small and my shoulders extremely wide.

Long hair on the other hand does not 'drown me out'. It actually flatters my body... which is the opposite of what that link said.

It depends. I'm also petite and wear long hair, but my hair has to be sleek, not fluffy, otherwise it has more volume than my whole upper body. Back in the days I wasn't aware of this, I wore my hair very "big" and my friends called me cousin It :). The article also doesn't mention exactly what "petite" looks like. I'm more thin then short, so long sleek hair suits me. In fact, the article is poorly documented and the photos don't prove the point, but as you said yourself, the way you wear your hair is influenced by how your body looks, so this is what I wanted to prove. We all have to figure out for ourselves what looks good on us and we don't have to worry about so-called rules like "men like long hair better"