Clarifying

[Bish]

Hi there!

My first thread, woohoo.

Well, my question is this:

In the Netherlands, we don't have special 'clarifying' shampoos that I know of that are sold in drugstores. Normally, for clarifying, I would use a simple cheap shampoo with SLES in it, as I normally use SLS/SLES and cone free shampoo and conditioner.

Lately, my hair feels a bit greasy, almost 1 day after washing, in patches on my head. It feels strange, but yesterday it occurred to me that I may need another 'clarify', because I still use mousse, hairspray and dry shampoo once in a while.

Well, it happens that the only SLES shampoo I currently have is a silver shampoo, with SLES in it, but also hydrolyzed wheat protein. I do like the effect of silver shampoo (bleached yellowish ends growing out), but my hair tends to like moisture more over protein.

So basically my question is: is this silver shampoo usable as a clarifier or shouldn't I use it at all and search for something different?

Thanks in advance!

[Sundial]

You can actually use the silver shampoo and follow it up immediately with a moisture treatment if you're concerned about the protein. That's what people usually do after a protein treatment. So you don't necessarily have to avoid it.

[Amber_Maiden]

You could try ACV.

[heidi w.]

I know nothing about "silver shampoo", but clarifying is about removing what's built up on hair: hard water minerals, oils, dirt, sebum, applied products such as oil, and left on product from hair washes that dried on the hair.

Clarifying removes stuff off the surface of the hair, and needs a follow up conditioning treatment as part of this type of hair wash to replace what's been removed or you will have "clarified" hair alright. No conditioning leaves you with kind of funny feeling hair, kind of brittle but not breaking, tangly, kind of rough feeling.

In the US we have some hair care products that cite specifically "clarifying" on the front of the product bottle, or more on LHC create their own clarifier with Baking Soda (make it SODA, not Baking Powder. very important) combined with some shampoo, such as 3 Tablespoons Baking Powder and shampoo of your choice, blended really, really well so it becomes kind of creamy, and no powder is bulked in the mix. Well blended.

Then wet the hair and apply, at least once, perhaps twice, and then rinse out really well, THEN condition the hair with a quality conditioner.

If you want consider a deep conditioning treatment such as use a heavier more viscous conditioner OR leave it on for 30-60 minutes and then get back in the shower and rinse it out.

That's the basic home recipe method. Shampoo in general is not a clarifying shampoo, unless it says so.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

You could try ACV.

ACV is a clarifier only in the sense it works for build up of product that is not rinsed out in that very hair wash.

Once product, hard water minerals, oils, etc. have dried on the surface of hair and been on the hair for a while, ACV will generally not remove this buildup. Calling vinegar rinses and specifically ACV rinse a clarifier is erroneous nomenclature. Doing so results in serious misunderstandings of how to clarify, and what clarifying means.

heidi w.

[Bish]

I know nothing about "silver shampoo", but clarifying is about removing what's built up on hair: hard water minerals, oils, dirt, sebum, applied products such as oil, and left on product from hair washes that dried on the hair.

Clarifying removes stuff off the surface of the hair, and needs a follow up conditioning treatment as part of this type of hair wash to replace what's been removed or you will have "clarified" hair alright. No conditioning leaves you with kind of funny feeling hair, kind of brittle but not breaking, tangly, kind of rough feeling.

In the US we have some hair care products that cite specifically "clarifying" on the front of the product bottle, or more on LHC create their own clarifier with Baking Soda (make it SODA, not Baking Powder. very important) combined with some shampoo, such as 3 Tablespoons Baking Powder and shampoo of your choice, blended really, really well so it becomes kind of creamy, and no powder is bulked in the mix. Well blended.

Then wet the hair and apply, at least once, perhaps twice, and then rinse out really well, THEN condition the hair with a quality conditioner.

If you want consider a deep conditioning treatment such as use a heavier more viscous conditioner OR leave it on for 30-60 minutes and then get back in the shower and rinse it out.

That's the basic home recipe method. Shampoo in general is not a clarifying shampoo, unless it says so.

heidi w.


Silver shampoo is de kind of blue colored shampoo, generally for silver (grey) haired people. I use it to make my yellow colored bleached hair less yellow. Maybe it had a different name in the US?

Baking soda is another one of those products I don't think we have here, or at least, is not generally sold in stores here, so I really don't know where to get that.

Normal SLES shampoos mostly do the the trick for me when I try to remove some product buildup... At least, that is what I did up to now.



You can actually use the silver shampoo and follow it up immediately with a moisture treatment if you're concerned about the protein. That's what people usually do after a protein treatment. So you don't necessarily have to avoid it.


Okay, that sounds good. I was concerned about the protein and maybe also the blue color, because you try to remove everything off of the hair.

[moxamoll]

I got curious and turned to the old faithful Google:

"The English term baking soda seems to be the same as the dutch 'bakpoeder' (natriumwaterstofcarbonaat)" and apparently it's sold in drugstores. You should be able to find it if you hunt around a little bit. The quote is from here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101124025018AAnnVWR

How do you bake without it, is my question?

[spidermom]

Baking soda is also known as bicarbonate of soda. I can't recommend it. When I mixed it with shampoo and used it on my hair, it dried my hair out so bad that it matted together like felt; truly awful! Two weeks of conditioner soaks brought my hair back to baseline, thank goodness. I didn't have as dramatic a problem with mixing baking soda with warm water and pouring the solution through my hair, though it still dried out my hair.

My clarifying routine is to use whatever shampoo I have on hand and massage the suds from scalp to ends. When I'm not clarifying, I dilute the shampoo and use it at my scalp, feeling that the suds running through the length with the rinse is washing enough.

[Kiwiwi]

Well, not bakpoeder but zuiveringszout.

Some Dutch stuff to expain better:
Baking soda is natrium bicarbonaat (zuiveringszout).
Baking powder is een mengsel van natrium bicarbonaat en een beetje zout en wat zetmeel (bakpoeder).
Verkrijgbaar bij t kruidvat, andere drogisterijen, everywhere really ^_^
I don't suggest using it, like spidermom said.

I would just use a sulfate shampoo to clarify and then after that use a good conditioner and let it sit for a bit longer than normal (go shave your legs or something ;-)). I think the shampoo will be enough.
Maybe you can get a (sulfate) shampoo without protein? Shampoos with sulfates cost nothing ^_^

[heidi w.]

Baking soda is also known as bicarbonate of soda. I can't recommend it. When I mixed it with shampoo and used it on my hair, it dried my hair out so bad that it matted together like felt; truly awful! Two weeks of conditioner soaks brought my hair back to baseline, thank goodness. I didn't have as dramatic a problem with mixing baking soda with warm water and pouring the solution through my hair, though it still dried out my hair.

My clarifying routine is to use whatever shampoo I have on hand and massage the suds from scalp to ends. When I'm not clarifying, I dilute the shampoo and use it at my scalp, feeling that the suds running through the length with the rinse is washing enough.

Sadly a regular shampoo is not a clarifier agent. With or without SLS. No matter. What you describe as your hair ending up is precisely what happens when you clarify with Baking Soda and do NOT follow with a conditioning in the same hair wash. I don't know if you did or did not follow with conditioning. You do not state it. I'm trying to explain that this is how hair ends up when you don't follow a clarify hair wash with conditioning, when clarifying with Baking Soda, whether mixed with water or one's shampoo choice.

So I'm really saying that if you did not condition in the wake and immediately in the SAME hair wash with conditioning, then your hair was clarified. This is how it ends up if you don't condition. Um I'm trying to get at the importance of replacing what's been removed by conditioning. In short, I'm saying the clarifying DID work, based on your description.

I've done the Baking Soda Clarify hair wash many, many times, and never had an issue because I always conditioned after clarifying my hair.

heidi w.

[Alacris~]

I'm from the Netherlands too and just bought it on ebay! You do have to check the seller for credits, but it usually works fine. I bought a little bottle of Clarifying Petitgrain & Pine Shampoo from the seller: 'thearomashop'. It seems to do the trick.



Edit: I forgot to mention I also use silvershampoo once in a while (for my bleached streak of hair), but it doesn't work clarifying (at least, never thought about it and I coincidentally used it when I should clarify but didn't have the clarifying shampoo yet ( just because of the yellowness of my hair, not for clarifying) and my hair still had the same build-up.

[heidi w.]

Well, not bakpoeder but zuiveringszout.

Some Dutch stuff to expain better:
Baking soda is natrium bicarbonaat (zuiveringszout).
Baking powder is een mengsel van natrium bicarbonaat en een beetje zout en wat zetmeel (bakpoeder).
Verkrijgbaar bij t kruidvat, andere drogisterijen, everywhere really ^_^
I don't suggest using it, like spidermom said.

I would just use a sulfate shampoo to clarify and then after that use a good conditioner and let it sit for a bit longer than normal (go shave your legs or something ;-)). I think the shampoo will be enough.
Maybe you can get a (sulfate) shampoo without protein? Shampoos with sulfates cost nothing ^_^

A sulfate shampoo is not a clarifying agent shampoo. Look for the product to say somewhere on the bottle "clarifying" in The Netherlands. I'm sure they have it somewhere.

I'm one of the people that taught Baking Soda recipe as a clarifying shampoo quite a few years ago now, as in perhaps 10 years or so. It does work IF you conduct a conditioning application after clarifying in the SAME hair wash. Don't let your hair dry, and then condition. You'll have a tangled, matted mess. It does work.

If you follow my instructions, it will work. And do NOT mix in vinegar of any sort in water and apply at same time as Baking Soda hair wash. That's a very bad idea!

I don't know of products in The Netherlands, but clarifying is new to most in the U.S., and they have to go on the hunt for a "clarifying" hair product. If you don't want to use Baking Soda, then you have to find a product that has "clarify" in your language on the front of the bottle.

I recommend you make SURE you understand what "clarifying" means precisely.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I'm from the Netherlands too and just bought it on ebay! You do have to check the seller for credits, but it usually works fine. I bought a little bottle of Clarifying Petitgrain & Pine Shampoo from the seller: 'thearomashop'. It seems to do the trick.

There you go!
Thanks, Alacris.
heidi w.

[Kiwiwi]

We really don't have any clarifying shampoos in The Netherlands.
We have a new shampoo that claims to remove ehmm 'kalk' (is the dutch word).. the stuff in hard water. So that would be a chelating shampoo? But not a clarifying one. Also it has ALS and that just scares me. That's the most agressive sulfate, right? But yeah, for once could be ok. BUT, it's not clarifying..
(FYI: it's Fructis Pure Shine anti-kalk shampoo en conditioner).

I'd love to have a clarifying shampoo so I will look on ebay too. Thanks alacris!

[heidi w.]

It seems to me that you could order something from online and pay for shipment. That might be an option.


For the record, chelating means to remove whatever has bonded with the cortex of hair, the innards of a hair strand. Clarifying removes what's sticking to the surface of hair, on top of the cuticle, the outer shell of hair strands, what we all see when we look at hair.

Generally speaking, I recommend clarifying as a first step prior to choosing chelating. Chelating is often conducted in salons in advance of applying a permanent, for example. In order to ensure the permanent chemicals take on one's hair. One has to remove all the previous stuff.

It's important to know your terminology and what these words mean as you make decisions for procedures.

I never recommend chelating, except in rarer circumstances. Perhaps around 4-5 years ago I recommended it to a young lady here on LHC and managed to help her save her hair. Someone had recommended a sea salt application, and her hair was misbehaving badly, and I got into a long discussion explaining chelating and clarifying. She finally tried the chelating, and it worked.

It's vitally important that you know what you're doing as things can go terribly wrong if you don't know the why of whatever process you're deciding to undertake.

Also, I heartily recommend that when you try new things, you try one thing at a time, because if you try several things at once, you can't identify the culprit if something goes wrong, and fix it the next go-round. This is a very important rule of developing hair routines: one thing at a time.

Good luck!
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

We really don't have any clarifying shampoos in The Netherlands.
We have a new shampoo that claims to remove ehmm 'kalk' (is the dutch word).. the stuff in hard water. So that would be a chelating shampoo? But not a clarifying one. Also it has ALS and that just scares me. That's the most agressive sulfate, right? But yeah, for once could be ok. BUT, it's not clarifying..
(FYI: it's Fructis Pure Shine anti-kalk shampoo en conditioner).

I'd love to have a clarifying shampoo so I will look on ebay too. Thanks alacris!

Many in the U.S. "soften" their water, or renters, for example, buy shower head filters for the shower spigot in the bathroom. It can help if you have overly hard water. Not all water the world over is great water. Some in nordic countries contain, for example, a high degree of iron or sulfer, hence the aroma of water sometimes (from sulfer).

heidi w.

[Kiwiwi]

Thanks so much, heidi w.! Very interesting information! It is indeed very important to understand what you are doing and to know your terminology.

I am lucky to live in a place where the water is 'normal'! Not soft, not hard, just good ^_^

[jojo]

Can you purchase tresemme shampoo in the Netherlands? the deep clean shampoo is excellent for clarifying, maybe order a large bottle online if its not readily available.

I wouldn't even try baking soda it made my hair and others a dry, tangly mess.

[spidermom]

Yes Heidi, I used conditioner after clarifying my hair with the baking soda mix, immediately afterward and every day for 2 solid weeks afterward. I think that the baking soda caused my cuticles to raise, and they stayed in that position; that's why my hair stuck together like felt. I trimmed a lot of damage from my hair for the next 2-3 years which I believe started with heat styling and culminated with the baking soda mistake.

And regular shampoo, even the mild stuff, used full strength and all the way down the length most certainly does correct the problem when my hair gets dull and tangly, I assume from buildup. Also vinegar, and as we've discussed before - if you don't believe that it can remove buildup, pour it over old soap scum. I can use diluted vinegar to clean just about all the surfaces in my home.

[archel]

I use the Giovanni 50:50 Balanced Hydrating-Clarifying Shampoo. It has nothing hydrating about it if you ask me! It's very clarifying without being destroying. I don't know how they do this without SLS/SLES, but they have worked magic with this one.

They have it in large sizes on Amazon.com. HTH

[McFearless]

SLS is more than enough to clarify. :)

[dRummie]

It's funny, I was about to come in and recommend baking soda before I read through the whole thread. For the record, my hair loves baking soda. I use a soak/rinse to clarify, and my hair is just fine even if I don't follow with conditioner. Granted, it probably wouldn't be if I did this regularly, but at least when used occasionally it causes me no problem.

I guess the moral is everyone's hair has different needs :)

More on topic, I do suggest you at least give baking soda a try, but definitely follow with a conditioner, especially considering those bleached ends. Good luck!

[Melisande]

I don't know whether I'm using the term clarify the right and proper way... but I found Lush BIG very useful for deep cleaning. It's very concentrated - no matter how much you dilute it, it's still very powerful. It really strips everything from my hair.

I tried baking soda (natron in German - maybe you have Kaisernatron in the Netherlands? it's very popular in Germany, but I buy it in bulk and use it for laundry, too...). I used it in warm water but it dried out my hair too much, so I never tried it in shampoo.

A strong SLS shampoo should do the trick. I don't know how much the ingredients of mousse and hair spray build up - most of them should just wash out. Did you check the ingredient list? They usually contain lots of alcohol which are drying anyway. IMO, you should be careful not to dry out the hair further. Especially as some "volumizing" products work by roughing up the cuticles.

[Bish]

Wow, a lot of responses during the night, thank you! :D

I think I'm just going to try a normal cheap SLS shampoo (not the blue one then), like I normally do, and see if it's enough to remove what I have coating my hair now and reduce the greasy patches. I did once use the blue shampoo after I came back from the hairdressers to remove the cones from their shampoo though, but maybe that is what is hunting me now (that it didn't remove enough).

The baking soda thing makes me a little uncomfortable.. The explanation 'zuiveringszout' in Dutch does not sound at all good to me. It sounds like the stuff you use to soak your fingers or toes in when they are sore.

[Bish]

I don't know whether I'm using the term clarify the right and proper way... but I found Lush BIG very useful for deep cleaning. It's very concentrated - no matter how much you dilute it, it's still very powerful. It really strips everything from my hair.

I tried baking soda (natron in German - maybe you have Kaisernatron in the Netherlands? it's very popular in Germany, but I buy it in bulk and use it for laundry, too...). I used it in warm water but it dried out my hair too much, so I never tried it in shampoo.

A strong SLS shampoo should do the trick. I don't know how much the ingredients of mousse and hair spray build up - most of them should just wash out. Did you check the ingredient list? They usually contain lots of alcohol which are drying anyway. IMO, you should be careful not to dry out the hair further. Especially as some "volumizing" products work by roughing up the cuticles.

Natron does not sound familiar to me, but I live near the German border, so maybe I'll go and check out a German drugstore soon if a normal SLS shampoo doesn't work.

And I know my hairspray does have dimethicone (loreal Elnette) but I don't use it very often (once a month at most). The rest of the stuff doesn't (at least, I cant find them on the list) but I'm not an ingredients expert to recognize more 'build-up products'.
And it just occurred to me when writing my post above that it could be leftover build-up from the hairdressers...

Well, anyway, it is just that I want to try clarifying to see if it reduces the more greasy patches on my scalp :)

[yvsa]

Hey, Bish. I'm Dutch to and did a little search for you. What I found is that Yves Rocher has a clarifying shampoo. It's called zuiverende shampoo met brandnetelextract. On the bottle it says it's a clarifying shampoo. I have not tried it myself, but it's just a tip for you;).

[heidi w.]

Yes Heidi, I used conditioner after clarifying my hair with the baking soda mix, immediately afterward and every day for 2 solid weeks afterward. I think that the baking soda caused my cuticles to raise, and they stayed in that position; that's why my hair stuck together like felt. I trimmed a lot of damage from my hair for the next 2-3 years which I believe started with heat styling and culminated with the baking soda mistake.

And regular shampoo, even the mild stuff, used full strength and all the way down the length most certainly does correct the problem when my hair gets dull and tangly, I assume from buildup. Also vinegar, and as we've discussed before - if you don't believe that it can remove buildup, pour it over old soap scum. I can use diluted vinegar to clean just about all the surfaces in my home.

OK, I'm sorry that happened to you. I have heard folks have trouble with it, yet others it works fine for. Against my best thoughts, some use the Baking Soda regime for washing their hair. I think it's a bad idea, but they must have their reasons.

OK, I stand corrected.

Yes, nearly full-strength vinegar/ACV will clean most anything, but for applications on hair it should be highly diluted.

Everyone's head of hair is unique. I'm sorry you had so much trouble.

heidi w.

[ktani]

I agree with heidi w. re the baking soda. Use well diluted vinegar immediately after it to reacidify the hair (close the cuticles) and fully dissolve the baking soda in warm water before use to avoid it being abrasive.

The only problem with the word clarify is that these days some shampoos supposed to clarify (remove hair product build-up like waxes and polymers) also contain waxes and polymers in them, which is defeating the whole purpose of using them.

I know that there is no clarifying shampoo as such readily available to you there. A basic SLS, SLES or ALS (ammonium lauryl sulfate) without polymers, waxes, botanicals, oils) should be able to wash out the product build-up.

That is all a clarifying shampoo is really, a basic, mostly cleanser shampoo with no frills, stronger in cleanser type and amount than a shampoo is normally for use every day.

[ktani]

This is the idea, ingredients will vary. It is a strong shampoo.

Prell in the bottle
http://www.drugstore.com/prell-shampoo-for-all-hair-types/qxp218551
"Water, Amino Methyl Propanol, Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Cocamide DEA, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance, Sodium Phosphate, Disodium Phosphate, Ammonium Xylene Sulfonate, EDTA (Ethylenediamine-Tetra-Acetic Acid), Benzophenone 2, D&C Green 8, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, FD&C Blue 1 (CI 42090)"

"No Unwanted Residue
Classic Prell® Shampoo is an exclusive water-based formula that is designed specifically to leave your hair ultra clean. Prell® Shampoo's thick, rich lather gently lifts away daily build up like residue, dirt, oil and perspiration and leaves your hair looking healthy and shiny."

ETA
http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=649
"Aminomethyl Propanol and Aminomethyl Propanediol are used a pH adjusters (http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/glossary.php?glossary=P#ph-adjusters)"

[Trish in SC]

How often should we clarify?

[Bish]

This is the idea, ingredients will vary. It is a strong shampoo.

Prell in the bottle
http://www.drugstore.com/prell-shampoo-for-all-hair-types/qxp218551
"Water, Amino Methyl Propanol, Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Cocamide DEA, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance, Sodium Phosphate, Disodium Phosphate, Ammonium Xylene Sulfonate, EDTA (Ethylenediamine-Tetra-Acetic Acid), Benzophenone 2, D&C Green 8, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, FD&C Blue 1 (CI 42090)"

"No Unwanted Residue
Classic Prell® Shampoo is an exclusive water-based formula that is designed specifically to leave your hair ultra clean. Prell® Shampoo's thick, rich lather gently lifts away daily build up like residue, dirt, oil and perspiration and leaves your hair looking healthy and shiny."

ETA
http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=649
"Aminomethyl Propanol and Aminomethyl Propanediol are used a pH adjusters (http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/glossary.php?glossary=P#ph-adjusters)"

Thanks! :D Gives me an idea of the ingredients I should look for!

[ktani]

Thanks! :D Gives me an idea of the ingredients I should look for!

You are very welcome.