Help for a newbie with what to order, please...

[Autumnbelle]

Hello,

I have spent hours and hours reading the forum (and drooling over the gorgeous hair on this site!) I am now ready to begin my mission of (1) growing my hair from a few inches past shoulder length to BSL and (2) THICKENING my extremely thin, fine hair as much as I possibly can.

Here is my gameplan and my question on what/how much to order. Any and all advice (especially from other thin, fine-haired members) would be so very much appreciated!

(A) Vitamin regimen (similar to Bargello's)
(B) Sulfate-free and cone-free cleansing with shampoo bars (Chagrin Valley) and having Burt's Bees natural shampoo and conditioner on hand (no sulfate or cones). Will cleanse 2-3x per week.
(C) ACV rinse (have been doing this off and on for years.
(D) WEEKLY THICKENING TREATMENTS:
Week one: Castor oil OR Castor oil mixed with amla powder-- applied to scalp and throughout hair. Put on cap and leave on for several hours (perhaps overnight).
Week Two: Cassia and Amla applied to scalp and hair/leave on for at least 1 hour/cap/do mermaid rinse in tub with sulfate-free shampoo and cone-free conditioner/ACV rinse.
Week Three: Castor oil OR Castor oil mixed with amla powder (same as above)
Week Four: Cassia and Amla (same as above).

I also *may* order Longhairlovers Luxe Thickening Up Styling Lotion.

MY QUESTIONS: I have no idea how much (how many grams) of the amla powder and cassia powder to use per treatment. The "strengthening kit"at HennaSooq has 100 grams of each. My hair is only a few inches past my shoulders at this point and, as stated above--VERY thin and fine. As such, my hair is extremely soft and shiny (like most baby-fine haired people.) My hair is so soft and limp, in fact, that my usual method of styling it involves sleeping in sponge curlers (they do not damage my hair the way hot curlers do) overnight. You would think that sleeping in sponge curles overnight would create "Shirley Temple" curls; however, even with sleeping in the curlers overnight, my hair "falls flat" within a few hours unless I use hairspray--which I no longer intend to do. When I wear my hair straight (it is POKER straight, btw), I get compliments from some people, because it is so very shiny. However, it is limp and lifeless and just hangs in my face.

SO... with all that being said, how many grams (or cups) of amla and cassia do you think I would need per treatment for my hair type? I think the entire kit (200 grams) would probably be overkill on my hair (being so thin and just a few inches past my shoulders.) Do you think I would get the thickening benefits of cassia and amla if I divided the kit in half (50 grams of each) per each treatment. That way, one kit would last me one month at two treatments per month.

The other question that I have...
I do not color my hair. It is a medium-dark brown that looks dark brown indoors and medium brown with some red highlights outdoors. I like the color of my hair; however, I am just now starting to get a few silvers. I only have about 3 silver hairs on each side at the "sideburn" area, so nobody sees it but me at this point. I have always had hennaing my hair in the back of my mind when the time came for me to start coloring my hair due to going gray (or silver in my case). SO... I am not sure if I should just go ahead and take the plunge now and do henna-indigo (considering the Lush brown kit at Hennasooq) OR just do the above for a while first (the cassia and amla kit).
Since obtaining as much thickening as possible is my absolute main goal, I would definitely consider doing the henna kit now as opposed to later IF the henna kit actually works to thicken the hair more than the cassia and amla kit.

Sorry this was so long! I'm just so concerned about doing the right thing at this point. Like everybody else, I don't have much in the way of "disposable income," but I am determined to do whatever I can to keep my hair healthy and thicken it up as much as I possibly can! I've been putting this off for years because I didn't want to spend the money on myself, quite frankly, but I've finally decided that I'm worth it :)

Thanks for your help/advice!
Autumnbelle

[Gabriel]

Hi and welcome! We're not the same hair type but I thought I'd mention that while your planned routine sounds good, if you haven't tried a lot of it first, you might actually be throwing away your money and wasting your time.

I know it's tempting to want to jump right in and start immediately, everying and anything that looks like it has potential to get to a hair goal.

Not everything works for every head of hair though. It's usually advised for new folks that one or two new things be added at a time to your regular routine. This is so that you can keep track of what is working and what is not. It is also very helpful should you (or your hair/scalp) have a really bad reaction to something. I'd probably work one or two new things in for one to three months, personally.

Vitamins can be tricky. A routine like Bargello's is an introduction of a lot of stuff into the body.
That's an individual choice but anyone with health problems or on prescription drugs should probably seek medical advisement first. Again, it would probably be better to start of with a good multi-vitamin, eat a healthier diet, and judge how that works with your body/hair and add from there.

Shampoo bars are awesome! I use them and have been using them for years. They are another tricky item though because so much factors in to how well they will work. There are acid rinses to consider and water hardness and all the types/brands of shampoo bars don't work the same or work for everyone either.

Even something as simple as castor oil scalp massages can have the opposite effect for some people. I'm a person who can't manipulate my scalp too much without causing massive shedding.

I haven't used any of the kits from Henna Sooq. I've used her BAQ henna and alma though and love it! I've also tried one of her shampoo bars and was really happy with that sample. Henna is a commitment though, even for hair as naturally as dark as mine. (I have dark brown hair.)

I don't use indigo or ACV so no advice there.

I hope I'm not coming across as tearing down your routine! It does generally look very reasonable and sounds like a good start.

Why don't you post what your routine is like now and maybe some folks with a more similar hair type will suggest their opinions on what you should add in to start with?

[Autumnbelle]

Thank you so very much for your reply!

You've really got some valid points there about trying everything at once. I have decided to go with shampoo bars and sulfate-free, cone-free shampoo and conditioner (just picked up Burt's Bees volume sham/cond yesterday first. I am then going to try the castor oil for a few weeks. If all goes well, I will then add in the amla and cassia, probably at 50 grams each for each treatment.

As for the vitamin routine...
I had a total thyroidectomy in 2008 and really should be on a vit. regimen currently. I had stopped taking due to finances, and now I am going to start back up. I go to a naturopathic doc and will be taking what he recommends as well as adding in Biotin, MSM, and Neocell Super Collagen. After researching, I do not believe these additions will pose any problem.

Thank you for helping me to realize that I need to start a little more slowly with this process. With any luck, I will have hair as gorgeous as yours some day :)

[McFearless]

Hey! Welcome to the lhc :D
Your game plan sounds pretty good. I had a similar one when joining but I ditched it very quickly because there are so many things to try. Nothing is guaranteed to work for everyone so you'll have to experiment a lot! Thats part of the fun :)

Cassia is very temporary and gets expensive if used often. Henna is an alternative that thickens up individual strands and is permanent, but also makes your hair red so thats something to think about. I'd really recommend it for strengthening your hair but you have to commit to it 100%. There is no bleaching it out. You can use amla to tone down the colour, but being dark brown currently your hair will never become bright orange. The colour will be more subtle and you should get grey coverage if thats what you're looking for.

For thicker hair regrowth I'd recommend a balanced diet and frequent exercise. If your shed a lot of hair, just getting that under control can thicken up your hair. Neeli oil works well for that and is used by a few of our members for that purpose. So is essential oils diluted in a carrier oil like jojoba.

I'm a fan of castor oil myself for quicker growth and thicker hair but I had to use it 5 days a week for it to work. Consistency is key, but again we are all different so I can't say for sure what the magical number will be. Some people only need to use it 2-3 times a week.

Good luck with whatever you do :)

[CarpeDM]

Hi! If you are looking to save your cash and get the best for your buck, here is what I would recommend and this is coming from a fellow thin haired person who has tried almost everything...cassia like McFearless had mentioned is temporary. It does thicken your hair BUT it only lasts for a shampoo or two and then the thickening affect goes away. It is also extremely messy and a hassle to apply every few days. Henna is permanent (and therefore will cost more to maintain). Castor oil is also a hassle to apply and wash out, and does not work for everyone, but if you can be consistent and apply the oil several days a week then try it out. If I were you and just starting out I would try some CV shampoo bar samples and specifically the ones that boost body for fine hair, most of the bars, if not all, have castor bean in them which promotes body and volume. Good luck!

[Autumnbelle]

Hi McFearless,

Thanks so much for the reply. I’m starting with the amla and cassia and have ordered enough for 2 months’ worth of treatments. After much reading/researching, I also believe that henna with amla (to tone down the red) would probably be a better/longer lasting solution, but I went with the cassia and amla first instead because one of the few things that I actually like about my hair is the color. I don’t want to end up becoming a redhead.
***I think red hair is gorgeous—just not on me! ***

I would definitely be 100% committed to doing henna IF I can find the right henna for me—meaning – I would be using the henna for its strengthening and thickening ability only. I have no desire to change the color of my hair, but I would be willing to change it slightly in order to get the benefit of the henna. I’m really interested in Rainbow Henna, as, for some reason, using a box that specifically states for “medium brown” or “dark brown” hair seems less scary to me than mixing my own (henna and indigo)-- if that makes sense. I need to find out if Rainbow really is 100% pure and really does thicken the hair with continued use before I try it, however.

Thanks so much for the tip on the Neeli oil. I haven’t heard of that yet and will go research it now! I have castor oil on my head as I’m typing this. Can’t wait to see how it works for me. I work from home, so I can use it 5 days a week as well, if that’s what it takes. I guess I’ll figure it out soon enough :)


Thanks again for the advice!

Take Care,
Autumnbelle

[Autumnbelle]

Hi CarpeDM,

Your hair is Beautiful! It doesn’t look thin to me at all in your siggy pic, and I LOVE the color!

I was hoping to get 2 weeks’ worth of some thickening out of the cassia and amla treatments. It’s really disappointing to hear that the effect goes away in only one or two shampoos! Maybe in combination with the castor oil, it will last longer? We shall see…

I have Chagrin Valley shampoo bar samples on the way (Soapnut and Honey, egg and beer) and can’t wait to try them. I’ve been using sulfate-free shampoo and cone-free conditioner (when I even use conditioner) and also doing ACV rinses, so hopefully the “adjustment” period will not be too long, if at all, with the bars.

Since you are a fellow thin-haired person, would you mind telling me what your routine is that got your hair looking so lush and gorgeous?


Take Care,
Autumnbelle

[Pierre]

I don't use cassia, but I do mix amla with my henna. I use 2 parts henna and 1 part each amla and cloves. A total of 30 grams is plenty for me to do roots and nails and have enough to spread on top of my braid to refresh the color. I find that 3 times as much water (90 ml water to 30 g powder) gives the right consistency.

If you're going to try henna, I suggest you get something like Yemen Light (Catherine's current batch with the least lawsone) rather than something that hasn't been stored properly and may have lost its thickening property as well as its color.

As to vitamins, I don't take isolated vitamins. I eat camu-camu for vitamin C and others, FCLO/BO for vitamins A, D, and K2, seaweed for lots of minerals, and local pasture-raised meat including organs.

[CarpeDM]

Hi CarpeDM,

Your hair is Beautiful! It doesn’t look thin to me at all in your siggy pic, and I LOVE the color!

I was hoping to get 2 weeks’ worth of some thickening out of the cassia and amla treatments. It’s really disappointing to hear that the effect goes away in only one or two shampoos! Maybe in combination with the castor oil, it will last longer? We shall see…

I have Chagrin Valley shampoo bar samples on the way (Soapnut and Honey, egg and beer) and can’t wait to try them. I’ve been using sulfate-free shampoo and cone-free conditioner (when I even use conditioner) and also doing ACV rinses, so hopefully the “adjustment” period will not be too long, if at all, with the bars.

Since you are a fellow thin-haired person, would you mind telling me what your routine is that got your hair looking so lush and gorgeous?


Take Care,
Autumnbelle


Oh you are too sweet! All of my thickness comes from the back of my head with little to none in the front. So this only works to my advantage here on LHC where I can fool everyone with back of the head shots and my hair looks a lot thicker than what it really is LOL :)

You can check out my routine by looking at my profile...but basically I love CV shampoo bars and use them every day. The two you picked are my favorites, but I also like the nettle, herb and ayurvedic as well as a bunch of others. I don't use any heat or chemicals on my hair. I try to use all natural and/or organic products. I find that the Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner and AO algea mask deep conditioner do a good job at thickening up my hair (the ACV rinses didn't work for my hair). I also use tea (rosemary and rooibos) rinses for shedding since I am going through a big shed right now. But basically the main thing to keeping my hair healthy is to stay away from heat and chemicals. A healthy diet, multivitamins and exercise also helps. Let me know how the cassia and castor oil work out for you!

[Angel_099]

Hi! :) I just wanted to mention a couple of things. I'm a poo bar user too and love them! While CV was nice, I prefer SCH bars over them because I get more lather and more consistant results. Many people prefer CV though...so you just have to experiment a little to find out which ones work best for you. With poo bars though, many (including me) find that they need to clarify every so often because hair starts to get build-up and feels heavier or looks a little dull. You may not need to do this, but it might be a good idea to have a sulfate shampoo on hand for this purpose (I use Suave daily claifying and dilute it before using).

As for henna...I only have good things to say about it! BUT, it isn't for everyone. I would recommend starting a stash of shed hair so that you will be able to do a decent strand test if/when you decide to take the plunge.

Those were just a couple of things that came to mind when reading your plan. Have fun and good luck! Hope you get the results you are after. Just don't rush anything...as someone else pointed out. Small changes, and give it time to know what is truly helping or hurting.

[Dolly]

Hi there Autumnbelle!

I am another fine-hair.....like baby fine, and very thin! And mine is dark brown as well. The main difference between you and I is that I used chemical color for YEARS. I wanted it to be flaming red.....and it was. However, one bad batch of dye, and my hair was destroyed. I lost about 8 inches over the course of a year or so.

So, I went to henna. The pics in my album show my hair at a little past BSL.....it is actually at about waist now. FOR ME, henna worked wonders on my hair. It turned the cobwebby texture into HAIR. It is no longer flaming red.....it looks very dark brown indoors (which is my natural color), and turns my whites (I have a LOT) bright red.....makes them look like highlights.....and then I get the bright henna flare in the sun (that is what my avatar pic shows).....I look like my head is on fire in the sun.....which is OK by me! LOL

BUT, as other posters have said, make sure to strand test, because it is PERMANENT. Sometimes, it can be partially bleached out, but that normally causes some pretty bad damge. As for Rainbow, I have heard both good and bad reviews. Some say it fades, others swear by it. For me, I wanted no part of indigo. If you ever decide to use conventional color after indigo, you can end up with green hair.....I love green, but not on my head! LOL I am not saying I will ever go back to chemical color, but you never know.....

CV shampoo bars are AWESOME. I used them exclusively for about 2 years I think. Now I use other sulfate free shampoos as well, but I have CV in my routine rotation, and use them regularly. The lady who makes them is also awesome.....I have spoken with her a few times on the phone, and she is always willing to help with questions or issues.

Coconut oil helped the general condition of my hair....castor oil was too much for me. I am another who can't handle a lot of scalp manipulation. My hair thickness (or how many hairs I have on my head) got better when I started handling my hair better. I started to be more gentle, and started taking a vitamin supplement with biotin.

I agree with other posters that you should just start a bit more slowly......be patient and start to pay close attention to what your hair is telling you. You will find out what it likes and what it doesn't.....

Oh, and welcome!!!