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WaitingSoLong
October 10th, 2011, 09:01 AM
Ok, my hair dislikes ACV rinses. However, I have really hard water and even my water softener does not seem to cut it. After I ACVR, it takes a few washes to get my hair back to a normal texture.

Is baking soda an alternative to ACVR or will adding baking soda to diluted shampoo PREVENT hard water build up?

What all does baking soda do for your hair?

I have never tried the baking soda shampoo method because of some of the "horror" stories I have read about it. However, I am thinking I may give it a shot afterall.

fil
October 10th, 2011, 10:35 AM
from my experience, the baking soda rinse acts as the shampoo and the ACV a conditioner. usually what I did for both was 1tbs baking soda to every cup of warmish water used (amount of water varies with length of hair). this is dumped over your head and left to soak for ten minutes, then rinsed, and followed by the ACV rinse with the same steps.
it is a very effective method to get your hair really clean if you don't want to have to wash it often. it's also very cheap. it also dries your hair out a lot.

fil
October 10th, 2011, 10:39 AM
also, it's residue-free and completely scentless, which is nice, but you can also add drops of any essential oil of your choice for smells if you like doing that.

spidermom
October 10th, 2011, 10:45 AM
Baking soda dried my hair out so bad that it matted up like felt. I thought a very short pixie was in my future, but 2 weeks (TWO! WEEKS!) of daily conditioner soaks, and my hair returned to normal. Whew! Bullet dodged!

I thought my hair hated vinegar rinses for a long time, but the shampoo I have (Shikai) was making my hair feel weird, so I tried a very diluted white vinegar rinse (1/4 cup to about a 3-quart pitcher), and my hair responds very well to that.

dRummie
October 10th, 2011, 11:25 AM
BS a cleanser, and a strong one at that. I use it to clarify, and it works very well. FWIW, my hair seems to dislike vinegar rinses, but loves baking soda. I get the softest curls when it dries after a BS wash... I still wouldn't use it on any sort of regular basis, though, just based on what I've read about how harsh it can be.

WaitingSoLong
October 10th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Yikes.

I was thinking, like a tablespoon of baking soda, a 1/2 cup of shampoo, and the rest water in an old shampoo bottle mixed.

I guess I want to soften the water.

I read the borax thread but I am not brave enough to try borax (not worth the risk to me).

Any other way to combat hard water? I do not have the means to collect rainwater but could maybe with some creativity, only we are going into winter. I cannot afford to use all bottled water on my hair (we are flat broke LOL). Surely there is an ACV alternative?

How about making a homemade water still? LOL

My ACV rinse is already super siluted. I started out with 1 cup in a shampoo bottle the first time the rest water, hated that and diluted more, now I am at about 1/4c. (2oz.) per a shampoo bottle and my hair still hates it.

I certainly don't need any help with DRY hair.

Libbylou
October 10th, 2011, 12:41 PM
I know you said you couldn't afford bottled water, but how about those gallon refill stations of purified water. We use that for our coffee and cooking. It costs 25 cents per gallon. BTW I use about one table spoon of ACV per pint of water.
I will be watching this thread as we have very hard water also. The softener does does not seem to help cept to add salt into the water.

WaitingSoLong
October 10th, 2011, 12:43 PM
I know you said you couldn't afford bottled water, but how about those gallon refill stations of purified water. We use that for our coffee and cooking. It costs 25 cents per gallon.

I checked into that and the one I have access to just uses CITY WATER. This was at Wal-Mart...I was shocked, like, what is the point then?

jeanniet
October 10th, 2011, 01:21 PM
You can't use baking soda without an acid rinse or it will trash your hair. BS is really a clarifyer anyway, and I don't think that's what you want.

I would try a citric acid final rinse, or using miracle water for your hair. http://www.longhaircommunity.com/archive/showthread.php?t=51184 I've been using a miracle water final rinse (just the citric acid, 1/4 tsp. in a gallon of water, because I have well water so no chlorine) for about a year now and it's made a huge difference. Cheap, too. :)

ETA: A cup of ACV in any dilution is a ton of vinegar. Even 1/4 cup is a lot--that's four tablespoons. If I do an ACV rinse, the most I use is 2 tablespoons in a gallon of water--but for what you want, I think citric acid is more effective. I also use miracle water (basically chelated water) to make my shampoo and herbal rinse. You don't need to use much--the 1/4 tsp. per gallon is enough.

spidermom
October 10th, 2011, 01:25 PM
Have you tried white vinegar instead of ACV? ACV gives me red tones and makes my hair sticky; I hate it.

Dilute more, like 1 teaspoon per shampoo bottle of water.

You could maybe get one of those pitcher water filters and rinse your hair with filtered water. We've been using a filter in the kitchen for a long time because sometimes the water coming out of the faucet smells like a swimming pool. Too much chlorine!

WaitingSoLong
October 10th, 2011, 01:58 PM
Yes, we get serious chlorine from time to time. Once it was so bad, I had made a batch of kool-aid and my oldest son (who is pretty witty) called it Pool-aid. LOL

Spider: ACV gives me red tones, too. I thought I was going nuts! I have NOT tried white vinegar.

Ok, sound slike baking soda is a bad idea. THANK YOU :O)

Jeanniet: Thanks for the thread link! I am off to check it out RIGHT NOW ;o)

FrozenBritannia
October 10th, 2011, 07:59 PM
I have used 1 tbsp baking soda in 6 cups hot water and rubbing it through my scalp as a shampoo for the last week or so (3 washes) and rinsing with a bit of vinegar diluted massively with cold roobios tea (i like the smell) and then rinsing again with just cold water.

It's working well for me so far- no dryness at all. (I use white vinegar). If anything, I would say my hair is less dry than it was previous to trying. I wash every sunday and wednesday.

WaitingSoLong
October 11th, 2011, 07:08 AM
I have used 1 tbsp baking soda in 6 cups hot water and rubbing it through my scalp as a shampoo for the last week or so (3 washes) and rinsing with a bit of vinegar diluted massively with cold roobios tea (i like the smell) and then rinsing again with just cold water.

It's working well for me so far- no dryness at all. (I use white vinegar). If anything, I would say my hair is less dry than it was previous to trying. I wash every sunday and wednesday.

OMGosh, so do I LOL!

I have heard a lot about roobios tea...where does one get it anyway?

FrozenBritannia
October 11th, 2011, 09:40 AM
OMGosh, so do I LOL!

I have heard a lot about roobios tea...where does one get it anyway?

Most grocery stores will have it in the tea/coffee isle, but I go to a bulk coffee dealer and buy it loose leaf form. It's cheaper that way, and it lasts longer (you really don't need as much as they put in the tea bags unless you are making a 6 cup pot). Some places have tea shops that sell loose leaf tea too, but where I live doesn't. :)

FrozenBritannia
October 11th, 2011, 09:44 AM
I was going to say too, have you tried using boiled water? It does take some of the junk out of it.

I use boiled water when I wash my hair (when it's still hot but not scalding obviously lol) and I have very hard water.

My gran boils water every morning to use as drinking water for the rest of the day too. :)

W2
October 11th, 2011, 10:06 AM
If you have very heavy water, and you use a tumbledryer for your clothes, that collects the water from the cloths, it is not quite as heavy.

Use to water my orchids with it. Guess I can use it as a final rinse for my hair

heidi w.
October 11th, 2011, 01:18 PM
If the water is the problem then that's the thing to attempt to fix. Anything else is a workaround, and for your situation, I do not believe a Baking Soda Hair Wash is your friend. It will dry your hair out far too much. Baking Soda is to be used as a "clarifying" hair wash, when the buildup is heavy. Not as a routine. Baking Soda removes crud from the hair's surface and MUST be followed with a good conditioning application, even if just "clarifying".

You would have to follow with a fair amount of conditioner after a B.S. Hair Wash (notice the abbreviation? Yeah, that sums up my opinion in terms of the regular hair wash ingredient.)

ACV is intended to "clarify" for leave-in stuff during that specific hair wash, not anything that has already dried on the hair. Hard water, residual shampoo not rinsed out, that kind of thing. Did you condition the hair after ACVing? If not, then you may have actually done it right? Some ACV after applying conditioner, but I always did it after shampoo and conditioning. I did it as my last step; however in past ACV threads I noticed more had success applying ACV prior to conditioning, and after washing.

Have you looked into a shower head filter mechanism? These are typically a good, yet inexpensive solution for hard water that a water softener can't handle. Water softeners are often installed on one water line: hot or cold, so if softening didn't work, I wonder that it was applied to the hot water only? Or some such thing? It could also be that the unit wasn't set properly for balance, or some such thing. You might ask a professional water softener person to come and have a looksee at your setup?

Ask more stuff if you have more questions about Baking Soda. I know a fair amount about it. If you don't condition after a Baking Soda clarify hair wash, you risk having overly dry hair that doesn't detangle well. The point of using Baking Soda is to strip or remove the hair; but then you have to replace what's been removed: that is, condition well.

heidi w.

heidi w.
October 11th, 2011, 01:24 PM
Most grocery stores will have it in the tea/coffee isle, but I go to a bulk coffee dealer and buy it loose leaf form. It's cheaper that way, and it lasts longer (you really don't need as much as they put in the tea bags unless you are making a 6 cup pot). Some places have tea shops that sell loose leaf tea too, but where I live doesn't. :)

As a blonde, WaitingsoLong, you should NOT use anything that can shade, color, or tinge the hair. Rooibos tea might; ACV does (I know). You should use white vinegar if you use an "ACV" rinse. The reason for Apple Cider is that it has the added benefit of the "mother"-- malic acid-- which is good for skin (scalp skin) compared to white vinegar. But the reddish quality of apple cider vinegar can tinge blonde hair color over time, and you're clearly highly blonde.

I recommend you focus your attention in improving water quality over working using kind of odd shampooing solutions. I guess things will not go well with Baking Soda until you understand what it does for the hair. It's unwise to switch things without understanding what's really going on. Learn about "clarifying" and you'll understand better what I'm getting at. I'm not convinced that you should be stripping your hair naked every single time you wash your hair.

heidi w.

heidi w.
October 11th, 2011, 01:35 PM
My ACV rinse is already super siluted. I started out with 1 cup in a shampoo bottle the first time the rest water, hated that and diluted more, now I am at about 1/4c. (2oz.) per a shampoo bottle and my hair still hates it.

I certainly don't need any help with DRY hair.

Sweetie, waaaay too much vinegar. MAX 3 Tablespoons of vinegar, whether white or ACV..... to an 8 oz cup of water. High dilution of vinegar is required. Assuming the shampoo bottle is 16 fl. oz., you have a 1:1 ratio: 8 oz vinegar; 8 oz water. Yee Gads!

It should be much, much less. A fair amount of dilution. And again, watch the staining nature of some materials: ACV will tinge lighter hair colors; possibly also rooibios tea?

Beware!

heidi w.

FrozenBritannia
October 11th, 2011, 01:42 PM
As a blonde, WaitingsoLong, you should NOT use anything that can shade, color, or tinge the hair. Rooibos tea might;

I have not noticed any colour change. Granted, I do not have as blonde of hair as WaitingSoLong.
There are many varities of roobios tea available. I currently have Roobios Provence, which only steeps to a caramel colour, not red. You can also get a camomile roobios mix which if anything would lighten hair, as it's got chamomile in.

jeanniet
October 11th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Most shower filters aren't hard water filters, so you have to be careful to read exactly what they do filter. They tend to be chlorine/chloramine filters. What you'd want is something to filter calcium carbonate primarily, and then maybe magnesium. The other issue is that depending on the hardness of your water, the filter may not last very long or be economical enough. I looked into them and felt they weren't environmentally friendly enough (you have to toss the filter cartridges); this is also why I won't get a whole-house softener system, because wasted water is a very big deal in California.

Since you do have a softener system in place, I would have your house water tested to make sure the system is actually running correctly and what the treated water hardness is. If you have well water, the problem may be other minerals in your water, and you can have that tested, too. A company that does filter systems should be willing to do a basic hardness/mineral test for you for free. The hardness here is 10, which is considered hard but not terribly so.

heidi w.
October 11th, 2011, 01:52 PM
To clarify, I do not know about the potential for staining of blonde hair colors by rooibios tea.

The ACV stained my hair an undercurrent of reddishness over a ten year timeframe. I used it as my controller for my overly productive Sebborheic Dermatitus (sp?) I have since found a much better resolution.

The staining nature of a material may not be immediate, but as a fairly white haired blonde, you should be aware of watching for this problem.

heidi w.

heidi w.
October 11th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Most shower filters aren't hard water filters, so you have to be careful to read exactly what they do filter. They tend to be chlorine/chloramine filters. What you'd want is something to filter calcium carbonate primarily, and then maybe magnesium. The other issue is that depending on the hardness of your water, the filter may not last very long or be economical enough. I looked into them and felt they weren't environmentally friendly enough (you have to toss the filter cartridges); this is also why I won't get a whole-house softener system, because wasted water is a very big deal in California.

Since you do have a softener system in place, I would have your house water tested to make sure the system is actually running correctly and what the treated water hardness is. If you have well water, the problem may be other minerals in your water, and you can have that tested, too. A company that does filter systems should be willing to do a basic hardness/mineral test for you for free. The hardness here is 10, which is considered hard but not terribly so.

Agreed. Having the installed system for softening checked to ensure it's set up properly and working properly is an excellent idea.

If you decide to also have a shower head filter system, make sure you buy a system that replaceable filter cartridges are available. I bought one not realizing it was going off market. True, also most filters don't handle hard water so much as chlorine/chloramine (mix of ammonia and chlorine). You are also free to call your municipality's water supply system and inquire about water quality that way, unless you're on a personal well water system of some kind.

heidi w.

lamia83
August 7th, 2012, 11:01 AM
I have just tried the BS-Shampoo-Water mix and I shed like crazy. Is this the norm? I'm sticking to good old fashion clarifying shampoo once a month. I will continue to use a mild cone sulfate free shampoo.