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View Full Version : Bottom 1/2 won't shine or smooth !?!



Busybee
September 28th, 2011, 03:38 PM
(PSA voice) "Are you like this girl? Do YOU Have this problem?"

My hair has been through some unintentional trauma this last year (medicinal damage - see siggy)

It is getting better, as proof of my pics - but I am still struggling with the appearance of the condition on the lower half of my head!!

I tried no cones for over a month, and my hair looked matte, floofy, and although soft, was tangled easily. So I threw back in some cones, but I still struggle with the ENDS of my hair, and nape area looking dry, frizzy, and not shiny.

The ends are not split, and it feels soft.... but it looks rough, no shine and everything I put on it gets SUCKED right up.

Doing S&C, coconut oil/castor oil overnight treatments 2x a week, occasional deep treatment masks. I don't know what to do - it still looks like crap an hour after blow-dried or air-dryed hair?!!?

:rolleyes:Smooth creams/frizz creams all disappoint. They just stick to the strands, making them matte and coated feeling.

:mad:If I put on coney serums - it looks good for an hour, and then my hair sucks it all in, and it looks dry/frizzy again.

:angry:If I try coconut oil or Fox's conditon creme recipe - they are too much, and I'm a lanky. Even with the smallest diluted amounts (too little does nothing....a bit more, then BAM - greaseball snuck up on you).

*I am not trying all these at once - just on different occasions to see if results get better.....big fat NO.

I have tried leave-ins, serums, smoothing creams..... I am at my wits end! Besides - it's not heat damage as I only blow-dry once a month for LHC picture progress.

Anyone else have this problem? What do you do? What products do you use? Keep in mind I am trying to grow my hair out, and only micro-trimming (so chopping it all off is not an option, and I want to believe there is a better way)

There has GOT to be others out there who deal with hair-sucking-up-products and leaving you high and dry (looking).

Busybee
September 28th, 2011, 03:47 PM
Oh and BTW - my avatar pic was of my hair freshly blow dried for "LHC-picture-once-a-month-day"

NOT realistic all day view!!!
Within 3-4 hours, the bottom half looked like a dry halo around my shoulders :wail:

missoj
September 28th, 2011, 03:51 PM
There may be a possibility that your ends are damaged. Some of my ends are damaged, not split, but damaged.
If it's damaged you can hide it with oiling like only the ends with olive oil, but to get rid of them, they'll have to be trimmed. I'm waiting for a bit more length before I get rid of mine.

erialc
September 28th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Wow I know exactly what you're talking about! The lower half of my hair just gets really frizzy and poofy and almost crunchy sometimes. In my case I think it's damage from that ONE time I bleached my hair 2 years ago. My hair was, and still is, too fragile to handle something that strong, so I'm patiently waiting for it to grow so I can cut it off bit by bit. Nothing else seems to work... oils, conditioners, cones etc, I've tried it all.

MyKing'sQueen
September 28th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Have you tried claryfying followed by SMT? If you are using cones it could be build-up. And are there any proteins in your conditioner?

spidermom
September 28th, 2011, 04:24 PM
How about a very small scrape of coconut oil followed by your favorite coney serum or spray?

kdaniels8811
September 28th, 2011, 05:10 PM
I second the coconut oil. I have one section of hair that is pure frizz - right in front! The rest is soft and shiny. So I put a half drop of coconut oil on that section every night and it seems to be helping. Like Spidermom said, a fingernail scraping. A little goes a long ways. Good luck to you and I will be watching to see if anyone comes up with a different idea!

Busybee
September 29th, 2011, 09:39 AM
MyKings'Queen: I can't clarify too often as I still dye my hair. The Paul Mitchell dyes are demi and not harsh, as my canopy proves. So I try to only clarify 1 every 2-3 weeks.

I avoid proteins anymore, as I am thinking my hair does not like them. (The only evidence I have to support this is that my hair was more brittle/crunchy when I used protein S&C and repair products) So no - I am currently on Garnier Triple moisture S&C (Your profile info says you use their leave-in..... I didn't know Garnier Triple Nutrtion had one?)

As far as SMT - I feel like I don't really notice a differnce. Maybe I'll give it another shot?

Spidermom & Kdaniels811: Maybe I can try the fingernail scraping of coconut with my current serum (Moroccan Oil).

I've been trying scrapings Fox's cream recipe + wet palm = rub palms together and distribute... works ok, until that extra scrape is too much and I'm greasy and matte.

Hilariously enough, it grips to some areas more than others, and throughout the day travels up the strand to make the upper areas more oily than the bottom - leaving it looking like I never applied anything to the ends.

My hair has an identity crisis!!!:argue:

jojo
September 29th, 2011, 10:00 AM
I second claryfying and maybe use a coneless product on your length and a coney product on the last inch. It may be damage which really the best option would be to trim back.

annieangel149
September 29th, 2011, 10:18 AM
Im in the same boat at the moment! clarifying and SMT works well for me but after a few days it goes back to looking a bit scraggly on the ends! I dont see splits but its got to be damage! My hair is virgin! no dye, blow dry, gels or hairsprays but its very fine so i guess it gets damaged easily! I havent had a trim for about 5 months i think and i guess because my hair is fine it needs these regular trims! GAHHH! I guess my hair is not capable of going long without trims but im hoping i can hang on till the beginning of 2012 before my next one! we'll have to see! If you want to permanently get rid of these dry dull ends, sorry to have to say it but it sounds like a trim may be the only way if you've tried everything else to no avail!

Minxymoo
September 29th, 2011, 10:34 AM
Hello, long time lurker coming out of the wood work here! :)

I don't have any advice on this issue I'm afraid but I just want to say I feel your pain Busybee. For me my hair has been completely fried by heat styling and I have zero shine. It's dry, rough, lank, dull... the lot! I have also tried everything from serums to oils and I'm either still to dry or suddenly coated. It's really difficult trying to tame this mane and make it presentable everyday. :(

I hope you find something that works for you!

spidermom
September 29th, 2011, 11:52 AM
For some people, diluted vinegar rinses greatly increase shine.

MyKing'sQueen
September 29th, 2011, 12:02 PM
MyKings'Queen: I can't clarify too often as I still dye my hair. The Paul Mitchell dyes are demi and not harsh, as my canopy proves. So I try to only clarify 1 every 2-3 weeks.

I avoid proteins anymore, as I am thinking my hair does not like them. (The only evidence I have to support this is that my hair was more brittle/crunchy when I used protein S&C and repair products) So no - I am currently on Garnier Triple moisture S&C (Your profile info says you use their leave-in..... I didn't know Garnier Triple Nutrtion had one?)

As far as SMT - I feel like I don't really notice a differnce. Maybe I'll give it another shot?

Try using SMT right after you clarify, it could work better because cones may block some moisture from penetrating hair. Also, you have to always follow a protein treatment (i used Aphogee 2 step) with a deep moisturizing one because proteins can leave your hair dry and crunchy if you don't do that. Hope that helps.
P.S. I found my Triple Nutrition leave-in at Walmart for about 6$.

Delila
September 29th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Another thought completely is to try a Porosity Control shampoo (http://www.sallybeauty.com/porosity-control-shampoo/SBS-700814,default,pd.html) and conditioner (http://www.sallybeauty.com/porosity-coditioner/SBS-700815,default,pd.html).

SpinDance
September 29th, 2011, 02:33 PM
My hair was fairly matt until I'd stopped using cones and been using oil, heavy-ish for deep treatments and lightly for after-wash leave ins for over a year. By then it was pretty shiny on top, but the bottom half or third was still fairly matt. Then I tried Panacea and within just a couple weeks I had shine to the ends. I'm still in the long term experimentation phase of LHC life but Panacea is my primary leave in, when I use one, and used as an overnight heavier application sometimes as well. (No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer.)

Busybee
September 30th, 2011, 07:43 AM
My hair was fairly matt until I'd stopped using cones and been using oil, heavy-ish for deep treatments and lightly for after-wash leave ins for over a year. By then it was pretty shiny on top, but the bottom half or third was still fairly matt. Then I tried Panacea and within just a couple weeks I had shine to the ends. I'm still in the long term experimentation phase of LHC life but Panacea is my primary leave in, when I use one, and used as an overnight heavier application sometimes as well. (No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer.)

Ummm, what is Panacea? Where can I get it?

Oh, and MyKing'sQueen: Is the Triple Nutrition Leave-in the spray? Or is there a creme I don't know about?

Thanks to all for your thoughts and advice. I think the hardest thing about having to be choosier regarding what I put on my hair, is because of trying to retain the dye color. I would love to NOT dye my hair, but I am a dark ash blonde (ash to the point of gray) so I have to dye it to keep from being a 28 yr old gray head.
Henna isn't an option as I am avoiding red tones like the plague.

SO..... some vigorous clarifying, vinegar rinses, etc. all take a toll on the color.
I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I am microtrimming the damage every other month, but this bottom 1/4 of head staying frizzy and lackluster is killing me. I just detest that there is no way to repair and make it look good when it's not heat damage - but internal medicinal damage. Not to mention...... living in FL humidtiy is NOT helping my sitiuation..... Uggghh

MyKing'sQueen
September 30th, 2011, 03:00 PM
Oh, and MyKing'sQueen: Is the Triple Nutrition Leave-in the spray? Or is there a creme I don't know about?
It's a spray.

coffinhert
September 30th, 2011, 07:40 PM
I think it's probably from blow drying and dying your hair. Even a demi dye will damage it, and the older the hair is the more damage it will show. damage builds up over time. So even though your canopy looks ok, the damage is showing at your ends. I predict lots of split ends as you enter APL/BSL territory. The finer your hair is, the more the dye will damage it.

coffinhert
September 30th, 2011, 07:42 PM
One thing you might try to add shine is full cassia treatments. They won't make your hair red, it's a very light yellow dye that comes out completely in just a few washes, but it acts as the same super conditioner like henna. It makes my hair super shiny. My hair is dyed and recovering from damage and I do a full head cassia treatment about every 2 weeks, otherwise it is exactly as you're describing. With the cassia it is mostly "perfect". I can't live without it. :P

PixxieStix
September 30th, 2011, 07:52 PM
One thing you might try to add shine is full cassia treatments. They won't make your hair red, it's a very light yellow dye that comes out completely in just a few washes, but it acts as the same super conditioner like henna. It makes my hair super shiny. My hair is dyed and recovering from damage and I do a full head cassia treatment about every 2 weeks, otherwise it is exactly as you're describing. With the cassia it is mostly "perfect". I can't live without it. :P

This! I was going to suggest a henna gloss until you mentioned NO red tones, but cassia should work great. The ACV rinses sound like a pretty solid good thing to try too.

Best of luck to you, and just remember, you CAN get through this, and you will have the hair of your dreams again, the waiting part just sucks a lot, and I sympathize with you greatly.

Busybee
October 2nd, 2011, 02:43 PM
To be honest with everyone, I tried some things, and my results weren't all that great.

I did a clarifying with ACV rinse and SMT treatment. Although my hair seemed to be lighter and have more bounce, it had NO SHINE on that bottom 1/4?!? :shrug:

I had to use the Garnier Triple nutrition spray (which I found) and some coconut oil to get it to smooth out and have some shine. Still not to the level of smoothness or shine I would like, but I guess I have to keep experimenting with leave-ins and such.

I am gonna just have to keep micro trimming and deal with the matte/wiry looking issues.

Coffinheart: There are many hard-core non dyers out there, and to each his own - but I have been dying my hair since I was 16, and have NEVER had this problem. As far as blow drying, I do it once a month. I would have to have hair like silk threads for that to inflict damage looking this bad. No, the damage is unequivocally from my medicine. I know that. It's solving the conundrum of making that hair match the rest of my head, while growing out and micro-trims that I am struggling with.

And although I appreciate the idea of Cassia, I mentioned before that I am ash. Yellow and Red are the mortal enemies of Ash. Even if it washes out, I don't want yellow on my hair just to achieve shine.

This sucks. I feel like giving up.

whisper
October 2nd, 2011, 07:04 PM
I'm a dye-er...I needed to switch to perm color earlier this year.

I'm not an expert what what I do seems to keep the moisture in enough so the frizzies are less frizzy.

1) CO wash with VO5
CO1 Champagne kisses
CO2 Free Me Freesia :)

2) shampoos with non-cone poo as needed - about every 3-4weeks

3) leave ins layered over each other:
1st aloe gel
2nd jojoba oil
3rd kimberlilies defrizzer
4th garnier curl gel to seal it all in

These leave ins may be too much for you but you can try different combinations of the "layers" - just seal it in with the gel.

4) I twist my pony tail and fold it up and clip it to the back of my head - a lame wet bun...and let it down about 4 hours later

Good luck!

Kristin
October 2nd, 2011, 07:11 PM
My experience: While cone serums and sprays may help in the short-term, they probably won't do you a whole lot of good long-term. I'd try a tiny bit of coconut or avocado oil on the length, followed by 100% argan oil (you can get it at Whole Foods in the facial skin care section). I personally think argan oil is better for detangling and shine than silicone serums and I've tried a lot of them. Also, if you can deep condition with a heat cap, it may be help the conditioner penetrate further thereby decreasing dryness.

Panth
October 3rd, 2011, 04:11 PM
Another idea: how about chelating? It's different from clarifying, in that it removes mineral-based build-up from the hair rather than coney/waxy build-up. I'd try it, particularly if you live in an area with hard water, chlorinated water or use well water.

As for how to, well, I believe some people rinse with club soda (though you'd have to do a search to double-check that); the other easy option is to simply buy a chelating shampoo (these are different from clarifying shampoos and will say 'chelating' on the front).

EDIT:: OK, scrap that. Club soda does not chelate (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1386287&postcount=2). It does, however, break up some mineral deposits. More usefully, it neutralises chlorine and so can be used to prevent damage by applying after swimming.

meeta
October 3rd, 2011, 04:13 PM
all hair trauma is unintentional hun.

Busybee
October 5th, 2011, 02:43 PM
all hair trauma is unintentional hun.

LOL - I know what you mean. No one goes after their hair with a flat iron screaming :twisted: FRY BABY FRY !!!!

I just meant, unintentional in the sense that it was not damage that I induced with knowledgable carelessness - like blow drying, flat irons, or chemical over-processing. People use those tools/chemicals knowing the risks.

I took medicine that seeped into my hair as well as my body, and unbeknownst to me wreaked terrible damage & loss. I was not aware of the risk - which was my fault for not reading the fine print of side effects (although those FDA liars say very few women experience what I did.....uh, yeah right - I've Googled it, and this pill is a hair death wish)

Anyways - still experimenting over here. Even a finger scraping of coconut oil doesn't seem to do the trick for smoothing enough, or enough shine. Gonna keep trying different stuff. Keep suggestions coming ladies ;)

SpinDance
October 5th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Busybee unfortunately sometimes the 'answer' takes time. It took me months of oiling and switching to mostly tiny amounts of Panacea before I got reliable shine on my ends. I hope you can find something to do the job fast, but for me, it just took time. Best of luck!!

Busybee
October 5th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Spindance: I don't think you answered my question before, though. What IS Panacea, and where can I get it? You aren't meaning Placenta are you, as in Placenta conditioning treatments?

MyKing'sQueen
October 5th, 2011, 05:28 PM
Here's the link for panacea http://www.etsy.com/listing/79375816/panaceas-hair-salve-leave-in-conditioner

coffinhert
October 5th, 2011, 06:36 PM
Coffinheart: There are many hard-core non dyers out there, and to each his own - but I have been dying my hair since I was 16, and have NEVER had this problem. As far as blow drying, I do it once a month. I would have to have hair like silk threads for that to inflict damage looking this bad. No, the damage is unequivocally from my medicine. I know that. It's solving the conundrum of making that hair match the rest of my head, while growing out and micro-trims that I am struggling with.

And although I appreciate the idea of Cassia, I mentioned before that I am ash. Yellow and Red are the mortal enemies of Ash. Even if it washes out, I don't want yellow on my hair just to achieve shine.

This sucks. I feel like giving up.

Don't give up :/ I understand not wanting warm tones. I find that cassia/henna were the best things for my hair, but that's my hair, not yours. If nothing else works out, maybe dilute cassia just on the tips of your hair might add strength without noticable color. Unfortunately damaged hair is damaged hair, my hair is getting longer now and where it was dyed the tips are all fraying and breaking off. I found a 4-way split end today, woo! I search and destroy and take vitamins and wait.

Busybee
October 6th, 2011, 07:26 AM
Here's the link for panacea http://www.etsy.com/listing/79375816/panaceas-hair-salve-leave-in-conditioner

Ahhaaaaaa. I see what Panacea salve is now.

My curiosity is - is Panacea salve really that different from a homemade batch of Fox's Conditon cream?
Have any of you tried both and seen a difference between the 2?

I have my own batch of Fox's condition cream, and it is feast or famine: Too little isn't enough to see much, and slight tip of the scale = Grease bomb.

Anyone tried both?

SpinDance
October 7th, 2011, 02:39 PM
My curiosity is - is Panacea salve really that different from a homemade batch of Fox's Conditon cream?
Have any of you tried both and seen a difference between the 2?

Huge difference. The ingredient lists alone are nothing alike.

I make and use Fox's Shea Butter Conditioning Cream as well as SMT. I use these in addition to using Panacea, although not at the same time. All of them help, but for some reason I'm getting better and better results the longer I use Panacea. Mainly I use tiny finger touches of Panacea on my damp hair (finger touch = touch finger tip to surface of Panacea and whatever sticks spread between palms, then over ends and lengths). Once in a while I'll do a heavy oiling with it enough that it is visibly oily, but not too often.

I use it on my dry skin, too, mainly my hands and arms. If I get it in my hair after doing this, well, that's life. I just consider it a deep treatment!

Busybee
October 7th, 2011, 03:59 PM
Huge difference. The ingredient lists alone are nothing alike.

I make and use Fox's Shea Butter Conditioning Cream as well as SMT. I use these in addition to using Panacea, although not at the same time. All of them help, but for some reason I'm getting better and better results the longer I use Panacea. Mainly I use tiny finger touches of Panacea on my damp hair (finger touch = touch finger tip to surface of Panacea and whatever sticks spread between palms, then over ends and lengths). Once in a while I'll do a heavy oiling with it enough that it is visibly oily, but not too often.

I use it on my dry skin, too, mainly my hands and arms. If I get it in my hair after doing this, well, that's life. I just consider it a deep treatment!

Fabulous! Thank you for the explanation on Pancea. I wrote the lady who sells it on Etsy to see if she recommends regular or Summer Panacea for me, as I live in FL.

I recently tried a few other leave-in conditioners..... and they had to get returned too. If anything, I am finding out what SUCKS for my hair! Hahaha.

SpinDance
October 10th, 2011, 01:44 PM
Busybee, Nightblooming on etsy is our own Nightshade here on the forums. I hope it's OK to say that. There is also a very long thread about Panacea here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=1144875).

It isn't always possible to tell which formulation will work for a particular person. I suggest getting the sample sizes and try them. I started with the samples, and now keep those in my bag so I always have some with me. I keep larger tubs in the fridge and in the bathroom.

I've been lucky. I have not yet noticed any particular difference in how well any of the 3 formulations work; they all are doing very well for my hair. I'll need to do some really careful tests to determine which one(s) works best for any particular circumstance or time of year. So far I just use whatever I feel like at the moment, or whichever scent I decide I like best at that time. However, some have had very different results with the different formulations.

It sure would be less 'interesting' if we were all the same, huh? :)

missdelarocha
October 12th, 2011, 06:20 AM
Thanks to all for your thoughts and advice. I think the hardest thing about having to be choosier regarding what I put on my hair, is because of trying to retain the dye color. I would love to NOT dye my hair, but I am a dark ash blonde (ash to the point of gray) so I have to dye it to keep from being a 28 yr old gray head.

Hey Busybee, I was just wondering if even when (if ever) your natural colour was completely grown out if it really was that ashy? I completely thought my dark ash blonde was grey, but that was only when I could see up to a few cm of it (less than an inch), now that it's grown more than that, it's taking on a much nicer colour!! I say give your natural a chance if you're willing to!
:)

Busybee
October 12th, 2011, 09:11 AM
Hey Busybee, I was just wondering if even when (if ever) your natural colour was completely grown out if it really was that ashy? I completely thought my dark ash blonde was grey, but that was only when I could see up to a few cm of it (less than an inch), now that it's grown more than that, it's taking on a much nicer colour!! I say give your natural a chance if you're willing to!
:)

To be honest, I have tried to find a colorist who can get me closest to my root color so that I could start to seamlessly grow it out - but it proves impossible. My hair does not want to hold onto the dyes as well as they used to, so everything fades back to yellowy blondes, and by the time my roots start to show - I am off by several shades.

I don't want to whack all my hair off, and I refuse to look like white trash.... growing out roots with yellowy blonde ends. So I am just struggling to find the right dye and meantime, condition the hair on my head.

PS - I ORDERED SOME PANACEA TODAY!!!!

SpinDance
October 12th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Growing out dye is such a pain, especially at first. My dye line is now past my shoulders and apparently doesn't look so bad, but at first it was pretty glaring, at least to me. I know some people wear scarves and such during this period, but I just smiled and shrugged.

I sure hope the Panacea works well for you! :)

Busybee
October 12th, 2011, 10:54 AM
Growing out dye is such a pain, especially at first. My dye line is now past my shoulders and apparently doesn't look so bad, but at first it was pretty glaring, at least to me. I know some people wear scarves and such during this period, but I just smiled and shrugged.

I sure hope the Panacea works well for you! :)

Well, I don't know how well growing it out will work if it CAN work. I seem to discover something new every day on LHC - Like for example that all the oiling I have been doing (daily scrapes of Coconut oil and deep treatment overnight every 3 days) is the explanation for my hair dye fading so badly!!!??! ( I knew there was somethin I was doing differently, as I have NEVER had dye fade this easily in all my life)

Why do I have to read these things far after I've started a good routine?!

I dye it to the right shade to match my roots, to start the virgin growth process or my line of demarcation will be so trashy bleach looking! Buuuuut if I keep oiling for the healthiness of it, I fade the dark dye I am using to grow out roots and match.

What a conundrum from HELL :angry:

SpinDance
October 12th, 2011, 11:17 AM
I hear you! However, nothing says you have to do all the experiments or routine changes at once. Long hair is after all a long term project.

It sounds like your higher priority is to go natural. So maybe stop with the coconut oil and other things that are fading the dye for a while and focus on other things. Learn new updo's, maybe research oil shampoo, which as I recall wasn't found to fade dye. There is so much to research, focus on that for a while as the dye grows. Make some lists of things you'd like to try later, or find things to test that aren't likely to fade the dye.

Then when you can try these dye-unfriendly things later, when dye isn't a factor. I'm trying to be patient as I grow out dye myself. It will be probably 2 or 3 more years before all of mine is gone, at least at this rate, but mine was about waist when it was last dyed July 2009.