A question for the "straighties"

[GabrielleRose]

My question is on compression.

So, you know how we measure the circumference of our pony tails to measure the thickness? Well, I was wondering are we getting some false numbers here? Because when I put my hair up it compresses quite a bit, but when left down it is quite voluminous and "thick" looking. I always thought my hair was thick but when I did the whole pony tail measuring I was a little disappointed that my hair is actually not that thick.

So, if the measurement could be wrong, how should us "straighties" measure? Because I have measured without the pony tail using the tape measure alone but wrapping tightly and BAM thickness.

Sorry for the rambling... I'm a little on the sleepy side... :sleep:

[Kaelee]

I know my hair is a LOT thicker when it's not in a ponytail.

My solution is to not bother with measuring. Partly because I'm lazy but mostly because I think it's inaccurate.

Not very helpful, I know. *Lol* but you're not alone.

[Rybe]

I was wondering about that too. Depending on how tight I squeeze the tape measure my hair's just "medium" but it's also fine and straight and I happen to know I have a TON of it...

[WinterButterfly]

I think it is hard to judge how thick your hair is by circunfrince alone. Th finer your hair is is the more you have if you have the same measurement around your ponytail. I think that thicker hair is harder to put up and manage in general. So maybe judge it by how much time it takes to put your hair in a neat pony tail? I got a lot of hair. I know it is thick because I have a thicker ponytail than most people I see. But it isn't crazy thick because my hair doesn't. Become like a pyramid when down. Though, I'm not certain if people with straight hair really get the pyramid hair. I bet they would have the most awesome thick braid ever though.

[pink.sara]

Im very straight and I type my individual strands as a M but only because they are so dark you can clearly see them. I'm probably on the F/M border really as when its blonde (it has been previously and I keep a streak now) it's difficult to see. And you really can't feel one strand on it's own.

But when I put it into a pony with an elastic and measure it's still 5.5 inches. (Measuring above the band)

I know someone with coarser hair or some wave/curl will look like they have more hair as it will be more voluminous. But I feel it's still an accurate way of measuring as we all have to "compress" to fit our hair in a band?

[Gulbahar]

Well, honestly, this is no exact science we do here. Measuring this way just gives you a rough idea about how much hair you really have so we all have something to compare. Of course it doesn't say anything about how thick it looks down and it's not supposed to do that anyway. The categories are pretty big too - someone with ii thickness can be much closer to someone with i thickness than to another ii on the high end of the scale.
We sure could start inventing other ways of measuring, may be even weighing (LOL) our hair. But what sense would that make? It's just hair and we are having fun with it.

[Alaia]

I'm with pink.sara on the compression part. Someone who has really curly hair still has to compress their hair to get it in a ponytail elastic.

There's going to be compression no matter the hair type. The factor may be greater for some, yes, but really the categories are so broad anyway it isn't going to make a difference unless you are on the border (like me).

What really does tell you how thick your hair is is at what length you can do certain updos. The thicker your hair, the longer it has to be.

[melbournian]

I was wondering the same thing...I think I have quite thick hair, there just seems to be heaps of it, but in a ponytail the circumference is quite small.

Alaia's thing about being able to do updos at a certain length sounds pretty accurate. My hair is between shoulder and APL and I still can't do an English Braid.

[MinderMutsig]

I think the ponytail method is pretty accurate. Everyone's hair is compressed in a ponytail so it gives the most honest reading. If you don't compress everyone will get false readings because different hairtypes have different levels of poof. Curlies and wavies get even more compression. Their hair can look incredibly thick because it has so much volume and air trapped between the curls.

Measuring by hairstyle would be very inaccurate because there are too many variables. Thickness, length, hairtype and even dexterity. Someone might just not be able to do a bun because they are clumsy and take that as a clue that their hair is thick when it's not.

[Alaia]

Measuring by hairstyle would be very inaccurate because there are too many variables. Thickness, length, hairtype and even dexterity. Someone might just not be able to do a bun because they are clumsy and take that as a clue that their hair is thick when it's not.

You have a point but there is quite an obvious difference between being able to get your hair in a cinnamon bun with it not being quite right because you lack practise or falling out because of lack of practise using whatever to hold it up, and simply not being able to do a cinnamon bun because your hair just won't coil round in a full circle.

I still think that the ponytail method is the most accurate way of telling, of course, so I agree with you there, but I do think that able-to-do-updo-lengths are a factor to be taken into consideration.

[Panth]

Hmm... well, curlies still need to compress their hair to get it into the ponytail.

But also, I think you're kinda missing the point. The whole point of the classification (IMO) system is to judge who has similar hair so you can see what sort of styles you may be able to do (hence why curliness, strand thickness and hair amount is measured (with hair length as an additional noted measurement) but other characteristics, e.g. porosity or colour, aren't) . The compression you do to make a ponytail is very similar to that done to make a twisted bun (e.g. cinnabun). So, in that respect, the circumference is what matters.

The classification system is (IMO) more about what you can do with your hair up, rather than necessarily what it looks like down. For that, you just look at a picture.

[GabrielleRose]

I know my hair is a LOT thicker when it's not in a ponytail.

My solution is to not bother with measuring. Partly because I'm lazy but mostly because I think it's inaccurate.

Not very helpful, I know. *Lol* but you're not alone.

Mine too!

I think that may be my solution as well.

I'm glad I'm not alone! ;)


I was wondering about that too. Depending on how tight I squeeze the tape measure my hair's just "medium" but it's also fine and straight and I happen to know I have a TON of it...

My hair is EXACTLY the same!


I think it is hard to judge how thick your hair is by circunfrince alone. Th finer your hair is is the more you have if you have the same measurement around your ponytail. I think that thicker hair is harder to put up and manage in general. So maybe judge it by how much time it takes to put your hair in a neat pony tail? I got a lot of hair. I know it is thick because I have a thicker ponytail than most people I see. But it isn't crazy thick because my hair doesn't. Become like a pyramid when down. Though, I'm not certain if people with straight hair really get the pyramid hair. I bet they would have the most awesome thick braid ever though.

Thanks for your explanation. I feel my hair is thick because I know I have gobs of it. Yes I have fine strands but I have quite a bit of hair and I have always been told that I have a lot of hair.

I can put a pony tail up pretty neat and quickly...

What is pyramid hair?

I know I get crazy poofy hair lol!

[dRummie]

"Thick" is a fairly vague term. You could be referring to the visual volume of hair, the compressed volume, the density, the diameter of the individual hairs.... This is why the classifiers are useful - they measure something clear and objective.

The third classifier doesn't measure "thickness" (that is just a convenient name), it measures compressed ponytail circumference, which, when combined with the other classifiers, will let you make a reasonable guess at how "thick" someone's hair is, even if your definition of "thickness" doesn't agree with that of the person who created the classifications system.

Anyway, I agree the third classifier isn't the best indicator of visual volume. I'd say you'd need to consider the third together with the first for that. It is, though, very useful for figuring out how much length you'd need to make a bun, so it is good for something ;)

[WinterButterfly]

Pyramid hair is when your hair poofs out like a tryangle at the bottom. Like the girl in the princess diaries before she destroyed her curl. But now I am wondering how much my hair weighs. I wonder if I could get my hubby to hold my hair while I stepped on the scale. That might be interesting. It felt like killer weight yesterday. I woke up with a sore neck. I couldn't turn my head without pain. And my hair felt like a ton of bowling balls strapped to the right side of my head. The right side was where the pain was. I bet curly hair would weigh more at my length because curls tend to hide extra hair. But hair does weigh a lot. Sometimes I wish I had a little less thickness to my pony tail so that the weight wasn't so much. And some braids would be easier. I am a little confused on the hair type thingy for hair thickness. Is it talking about thickness in inches? I put 3 because I have more than 3 inches of thickness when compressed tight. I actually measured under my pony tail. It was easier. Or 3 just a random classification? I'm so confused.

[MinderMutsig]

WinterButterfly the hair classification system is explained in this thread: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=8954

This is the bit for thickness:

Put your hair in a ponytail with as much hair as possible in it. Don't bother with the way it looks - the goal is to have most/all of your hair in there. If it means it sits smack dab on top of your head, put it there.

Measure the circumference of the ponytail. If you have bangs and/or you can't get all of your hair in there adjust according to how much of your hair you have measured.

i - thin (less than 2 inches/5 centimeters)
ii - normal (between 2-4 inches or 5-10 centimeters)
iii - thick (more than 4 inches/10 centimeters)

[freckles]

"Thick" is a fairly vague term. You could be referring to the visual volume of hair, the compressed volume, the density, the diameter of the individual hairs.... This is why the classifiers are useful - they measure something clear and objective.

The third classifier doesn't measure "thickness" (that is just a convenient name), it measures compressed ponytail circumference, which, when combined with the other classifiers, will let you make a reasonable guess at how "thick" someone's hair is, even if your definition of "thickness" doesn't agree with that of the person who created the classifications system.

Anyway, I agree the third classifier isn't the best indicator of visual volume. I'd say you'd need to consider the third together with the first for that. It is, though, very useful for figuring out how much length you'd need to make a bun, so it is good for something ;)

this post is spot on, I think, and says very clearly what I would have said if I could say it that clearly :o

[MinderMutsig]

I do have another issue with the thickness classifier. I think it's 'off' in that too many people come out as having iii extra thick hair when their thickness is actually quite common. I am in the iii category with 4.5 inches but I classify myself as ii/iii because I think someone with my ponytail circumference shouldn't be in there. I have some of the struggles that those with really thick hair have but not nearly as bad as those with super thick hair. I also don't think my ponytail circumference is all that extreme. I see loads of people who have my thickness or thicker.

If you want to use three categories then you have to make sure the middle one covers the most common lengths.

I think the categories would be better this way:

i - thin (less than 2 inches/5 centimeters)
ii - normal (between 2-5 inches or 5-15 centimeters)
iii - thick (more than 5 inches/15 centimeters)

That way people with my circumference go in the medium slot where they belong imho.

[Yame]

I do have another issue with the thickness classifier. I think it's 'off' in that too many people come out as having iii extra thick hair when their thickness is actually quite common. I am in the iii category with 4.5 inches but I classify myself as ii/iii because I think someone with my ponytail circumference shouldn't be in there. I have some of the struggles that those with really thick hair have but not nearly as bad as those with super thick hair. I also don't think my ponytail circumference is all that extreme. I see loads of people who have my thickness or thicker.

If you want to use three categories then you have to make sure the middle one covers the most common lengths.

I think the categories would be better this way:

i - thin (less than 2 inches/5 centimeters)
ii - normal (between 2-5 inches or 5-15 centimeters)
iii - thick (more than 5 inches/15 centimeters)

That way people with my circumference go in the medium slot where they belong imho.

That's my issue with it, as well. That's why I am very hesitant to type myself an ii/iii, my hair just isn't "thick" although it's almost at the 4inch mark. The system could either be as you suggested, OR there could be 4 classifiers instead of 3:

i - thin
ii - normal
iii - thick
iv - very thick

Up to thick, it could be whatever it is now, and "very thick" could be 5+ inches.

[MinderMutsig]

Four classifiers may be even better!

[Vallena]

It isn't an exact science, just an approximation so you can find people who are similar to you. I rank as average thickness, but my hair is quite dense. It is not a big deal, just another way to categorize your hair! :)

[Rybe]

I don't think it's unreasonable to just take your best shot and say that people with different textures and thicknesses will have different circumferences measurements as someone with the same over all volume of hair...if that makes sense.

I almost classified myself as iii just because I have so MUCH hair. And it gets everywhere. Even when I put it in a pony I feel like it's down because it'll split and come over both shoulders. I recently had some pretty hardcore tightly twisted braid waves going on, and when I brushed them out I had hilarious puffy pyramid head. And my ponytail certainly felt thicker. But I have also seen people with even more massively thick hair... But I've also seen people with hair so thin it wouldn't get close to the 2in mark, should they get a classification too? I just figured these things were general averages :) Fine/below average, average, tons/above average

[GabrielleRose]

Im very straight and I type my individual strands as a M but only because they are so dark you can clearly see them. I'm probably on the F/M border really as when its blonde (it has been previously and I keep a streak now) it's difficult to see. And you really can't feel one strand on it's own.

But when I put it into a pony with an elastic and measure it's still 5.5 inches. (Measuring above the band)

I know someone with coarser hair or some wave/curl will look like they have more hair as it will be more voluminous. But I feel it's still an accurate way of measuring as we all have to "compress" to fit our hair in a band?

I have some medium strands as well, I'm debating on putting myself as F/M, but I know I have a lot MORE fine strands so I'll stay there for now even thought I have seen quite a bit of medium strands as well.

You have quite a measurement there! I know we all have to do the compression, but what I meant to ask was should "straighties" measure a certain way due to us having quite a bit of compression going on in the first place.


Well, honestly, this is no exact science we do here. Measuring this way just gives you a rough idea about how much hair you really have so we all have something to compare. Of course it doesn't say anything about how thick it looks down and it's not supposed to do that anyway. The categories are pretty big too - someone with ii thickness can be much closer to someone with i thickness than to another ii on the high end of the scale.
We sure could start inventing other ways of measuring, may be even weighing (LOL) our hair. But what sense would that make? It's just hair and we are having fun with it.

I understand the measuring for us to all compare. That sounds pretty cool about us weighing hair lol, I could totally see myself doing that. :P


I'm with pink.sara on the compression part. Someone who has really curly hair still has to compress their hair to get it in a ponytail elastic.

There's going to be compression no matter the hair type. The factor may be greater for some, yes, but really the categories are so broad anyway it isn't going to make a difference unless you are on the border (like me).

What really does tell you how thick your hair is is at what length you can do certain updos. The thicker your hair, the longer it has to be.

That is really interesting about thickness at the length and being able to do certain updos.

That also sounds true that thicker your hair is the longer it has to be. Because before I got my hair cut I have a bigger measurement and now that I cut it it is smaller.


I was wondering the same thing...I think I have quite thick hair, there just seems to be heaps of it, but in a ponytail the circumference is quite small.

Alaia's thing about being able to do updos at a certain length sounds pretty accurate. My hair is between shoulder and APL and I still can't do an English Braid.

I'm glad you were wondering the same thing as well, because just like you I think I have some thickish hair and seems like there is quite a bit of it as well, but once in a pony tail it is quite small.

I also agree with Alaia even though I haven't really tried any hair styles because I'm too impatient and I get headaches from my hair being up. :(


I think the ponytail method is pretty accurate. Everyone's hair is compressed in a ponytail so it gives the most honest reading. If you don't compress everyone will get false readings because different hairtypes have different levels of poof. Curlies and wavies get even more compression. Their hair can look incredibly thick because it has so much volume and air trapped between the curls.

Measuring by hairstyle would be very inaccurate because there are too many variables. Thickness, length, hairtype and even dexterity. Someone might just not be able to do a bun because they are clumsy and take that as a clue that their hair is thick when it's not.

I know we all must do compression but I was wondering if there was a specific way or better way for "straighties" to do it?

[GabrielleRose]

Hmm... well, curlies still need to compress their hair to get it into the ponytail.

But also, I think you're kinda missing the point. The whole point of the classification (IMO) system is to judge who has similar hair so you can see what sort of styles you may be able to do (hence why curliness, strand thickness and hair amount is measured (with hair length as an additional noted measurement) but other characteristics, e.g. porosity or colour, aren't) . The compression you do to make a ponytail is very similar to that done to make a twisted bun (e.g. cinnabun). So, in that respect, the circumference is what matters.

The classification system is (IMO) more about what you can do with your hair up, rather than necessarily what it looks like down. For that, you just look at a picture.

Thank you for your clarification.


"Thick" is a fairly vague term. You could be referring to the visual volume of hair, the compressed volume, the density, the diameter of the individual hairs.... This is why the classifiers are useful - they measure something clear and objective.

The third classifier doesn't measure "thickness" (that is just a convenient name), it measures compressed ponytail circumference, which, when combined with the other classifiers, will let you make a reasonable guess at how "thick" someone's hair is, even if your definition of "thickness" doesn't agree with that of the person who created the classifications system.

Anyway, I agree the third classifier isn't the best indicator of visual volume. I'd say you'd need to consider the third together with the first for that. It is, though, very useful for figuring out how much length you'd need to make a bun, so it is good for something ;)

Thank you. Wow, I think that's really cool that the third indicator is useful for figuring out how much length I'll need to make a bun and other styles.


Pyramid hair is when your hair poofs out like a tryangle at the bottom. Like the girl in the princess diaries before she destroyed her curl. But now I am wondering how much my hair weighs. I wonder if I could get my hubby to hold my hair while I stepped on the scale. That might be interesting. It felt like killer weight yesterday. I woke up with a sore neck. I couldn't turn my head without pain. And my hair felt like a ton of bowling balls strapped to the right side of my head. The right side was where the pain was. I bet curly hair would weigh more at my length because curls tend to hide extra hair. But hair does weigh a lot. Sometimes I wish I had a little less thickness to my pony tail so that the weight wasn't so much. And some braids would be easier. I am a little confused on the hair type thingy for hair thickness. Is it talking about thickness in inches? I put 3 because I have more than 3 inches of thickness when compressed tight. I actually measured under my pony tail. It was easier. Or 3 just a random classification? I'm so confused.

LOL! I get pyramid hair at times then, my hair just poofs like CRAZY at times.

I hear you about hair being heavy. I remember when I was younger and would let my hair grow out I would always cut if off because it would feel so heavy and hot, hopefully if I can get like that again I will learn to deal with it. :)

As for the whole thickness thing I'm a little fuzzy about it, but I really like how others posted about the third classifier helping you identify what styles you can do.


WinterButterfly the hair classification system is explained in this thread: http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=8954

This is the bit for thickness:

Put your hair in a ponytail with as much hair as possible in it. Don't bother with the way it looks - the goal is to have most/all of your hair in there. If it means it sits smack dab on top of your head, put it there.

Measure the circumference of the ponytail. If you have bangs and/or you can't get all of your hair in there adjust according to how much of your hair you have measured.

i - thin (less than 2 inches/5 centimeters)
ii - normal (between 2-4 inches or 5-10 centimeters)
iii - thick (more than 4 inches/10 centimeters)

Thanks for the link, I'll be checking that out. ;)


I do have another issue with the thickness classifier. I think it's 'off' in that too many people come out as having iii extra thick hair when their thickness is actually quite common. I am in the iii category with 4.5 inches but I classify myself as ii/iii because I think someone with my ponytail circumference shouldn't be in there. I have some of the struggles that those with really thick hair have but not nearly as bad as those with super thick hair. I also don't think my ponytail circumference is all that extreme. I see loads of people who have my thickness or thicker.

If you want to use three categories then you have to make sure the middle one covers the most common lengths.

I think the categories would be better this way:

i - thin (less than 2 inches/5 centimeters)
ii - normal (between 2-5 inches or 5-15 centimeters)
iii - thick (more than 5 inches/15 centimeters)

That way people with my circumference go in the medium slot where they belong imho.

I see what you mean, I guess I'm still normal in your categories. Lol! :p


It isn't an exact science, just an approximation so you can find people who are similar to you. I rank as average thickness, but my hair is quite dense. It is not a big deal, just another way to categorize your hair! :)

I've seen many similar to me, but I haven't really seen them talking about poofy hair like me lol. But I'm not complaining because I actually LOVE having poofy hair. :love:

[GabrielleRose]

I don't think it's unreasonable to just take your best shot and say that people with different textures and thicknesses will have different circumferences measurements as someone with the same over all volume of hair...if that makes sense.

I almost classified myself as iii just because I have so MUCH hair. And it gets everywhere. Even when I put it in a pony I feel like it's down because it'll split and come over both shoulders. I recently had some pretty hardcore tightly twisted braid waves going on, and when I brushed them out I had hilarious puffy pyramid head. And my ponytail certainly felt thicker. But I have also seen people with even more massively thick hair... But I've also seen people with hair so thin it wouldn't get close to the 2in mark, should they get a classification too? I just figured these things were general averages :) Fine/below average, average, tons/above average

That does make sense. ;)

I had classified myself as ii/iii for the same reasons as you. :) I put it up in a ponytail and it splits just like yours and goes every where! Also, when I get bun waves and brush them off my hair looks massive and poofy so I guess I get pyramid hair lol!