Updos for round face shape?

[Orangerthanred]

I really need some sort of updo. I haven't worn my hair up in public for a long time. My hair is always down.

I've tried so many ponytails and buns and braids... they all make my face either look wider or rounder. I've tried side bangs and blunt bangs, I look terrible in both, especially with my hair pulled back...

And by the way, my hair is a few inches past shoulder length so it isn't super versatile at this point. I wish my hair would grow faster.

So, do you people know any sort of updo that would suit a round face?

[Dizzy_zzz]

You could do a ponytail, but make a lot of volume on the top of your head (one of those poof thingies, maybe?)to make your hair appear longer and more oval, and keep it flat on the sides/by your temples.

[Mairéad]

Typically round faces are widest at the cheeks, so I'd say you'd want to do updos that are focused on the crown but are also not pulled back too tightly. I'm not very knowledgeable in updos yet, (short hair and all) but I was trying to give an idea. :eek:

[Lianna]

A pulled back high sock bun looked great with my round face at shoulder length. I don't feel the need to hide it behind face framing layers...because society doesn't like round shapes? But layers look great too, same with long bangs (I have both), but wear them because you like the style not because you need to hide your face. I personally love the versatility of pulling all back into an updo or having just bangs, or bangs with layers.

My face is out there, someone can not look if they are bothered by it.

[SwordWomanRiona]

Yes, don't be ashamed of your round face! I hate it when society tells round/square/long - faced people how to hide their natural face shape to make it look more oval (hide your angled jaw, layers all around your face, etc, etc). I mean, I love oval faces, but I also love my own square jaw, and wide faces can be very attractive 'too'!

I don't really think about how to make my face longer when wearing updos (wouldn't mind to know, though, for a change!), but I find that ponytails with very polished, flat sides look good with my square face and draw attention to my square jaw...I don't really know if it actually makes one's face longer, though :confused:. About updos...Maybe a high updo with all your hair piled up high on your head and fixed in place with a fork/hairstick would help making your face a bit less wide...I've become a fan of that updo since getting my first hairforks in May :). But maybe that one wouldn't work with your past-shoulder hair...

[Orangerthanred]

I have done high ponytails and buns already. They look okay close up, but when you look at me 6 ft away my face looks really round.

I know there's nothing wrong with a round face, but I always look so stupid with my hair up. I'm jealous of people who can just throw their hair in a bun or something, and walk out the door looking fine.

[celebriangel]

Yup. A poof is good for a round face (I have one) - basically, take the front section if hair which would be used to make bangs if you had them, twist once and hold the twist, place the twist on your head somewhere between your crown and front hairline, push forward a bit to create the lift, then pin in place with two bobby pins.

Nice, easy, no hair damage. This works if you have long bangs/face-framing layers, which I also like sometimes. For my face, face-framing pieces which end between the bottom of my cheekbones and my jaw work, because they emphasis the hollow there and define my face a bit (my face is round because the top of my jaw and my cheekbones are both wide). YMMV on this, though.

The effect of the pouf, though, is something like this:

http://vfare36.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/ponytail-poof-kim-kardashian.jpg?w=400&h=400

[Orangerthanred]

Thanks celebriangel. I don't remember if I have tried a poof ponytail yet, so I will test it.
But I can't get face framing layers... my hair is extremely thick and will poof up if I cut any bit of my hair too short.

[Mairéad]

I have done high ponytails and buns already. They look okay close up, but when you look at me 6 ft away my face looks really round.

I know there's nothing wrong with a round face, but I always look so stupid with my hair up. I'm jealous of people who can just throw their hair in a bun or something, and walk out the door looking fine.

I'm pretty sure you look just fine 6ft away and close up. :)
We can be our own worst critics. Some of the people you think look great in a bun probably have round faces too.

[Orangerthanred]

I'm pretty sure you look just fine 6ft away and close up. :)
We can be our own worst critics. Some of the people you think look great in a bun probably have round faces too.

Maybe. Can mirrors lie about what you look like? Dx

I don't know. The select few people I was talking about happen to have heart shaped faces, I think..

[Mairéad]

Oh yes, mirrors lie. All the time. Photos too. Especially when you have something you're actually looking to dislike, lol. I just ate chocolate and jelly beans and I keep seeing a lardy lass in the mirror but I KNOW I'm the same size. :disbelief

I used to feel the same about my face but I really love my face now. It's slightly oval but barely. My face shape is a lot like Drew Barrymore and she's considered round faced. Wearing hair up leaves you exposed and sometimes we don't like that, but showing your face is always beautiful.

[Dorothy]

I think the way to go here is radical acceptance. Round is beautiful too. I have a round face at this point, and the truth is that updos just show more of your face than wearing your hair down, which can feel vulnerable. I recommend a simple bun on the top of your head, the crown area, the ballerina spot, with a lovely hairtoy, feathers, sticks, jewells - that remind you that you are a lovely lady.

The hairtoy should stick up, which just expands the visual space above your head that seems to belong to it.

Another thing hair down does for you is cover up some of the sides of your face, making it less round. You can get some of that effect by leaving out a long piece of hair from just in front of each ear. These can be of various thicknesses and stay straight or be curled or braided. When your hair gets longer they can be braided or left soft and be looped below your ears and back into your bun. All of this interrupts the line of your face, giving you a more vertical look.

All of this must be accompanied by fabulous hair toys. I prefer Japanese Kanzashi. They are expensive, but complex, various, antique and hand made. So it's really not much money for all that.

Post pictures if you find one you like, I'd love to see.

[FrozenBritannia]

This site http://www.look-fabulous.com/celebrities-with-round-shaped-faces.html has a list of celebrities with round face shapes... An easy thing to do is pick one with the most similar face shape to yours, and then google them with updos, and learn how to do the ones that look good on them! :D

[Lianna]

I look pretty awful with the pouf, lol. :p I think we all have the hairstyles we look best in! Whatever face shape.

Some people will just look better with hair down, and up it's still "fine". I think that's my case, I just accept that I won't look as great with hair up. When I want to look really good I'll do a hairstyle that flatters me the most, being down, half up or high buns (those are best for me). Same with hair being wavy, curly or straight. One of those just might suit a person better. We won't look our best in every hair possible.

I'd like to remember that wearing it down all the time is an option too.

[sunshine-locks]

When you're trying to see what face shape you have, are you meant to smile, or not? Because when I smile, my face looks a lot rounder and bigger, but when I'm not smiling, it's smaller and more heart-shaped.

[Lianna]

@sunshine-locks

Don't smile.

[sunshine-locks]

Okay, good, that makes it much easier. Thank you :)

[archel]

I was self conscious about wearing my hair up for the same reason - and it really hit home when I saw myself in a bad photo! I got some brow-skimming bangs and some side pieces cut in to frame my face and now I feel super cute when I wear my hair up...then again YMMV :)

[QMacrocarpa]

I know there's nothing wrong with a round face, but I always look so stupid with my hair up. I'm jealous of people who can just throw their hair in a bun or something, and walk out the door looking fine.
I don't know if this is an issue for you, but I think many of us are used to seeing an accustomed "look" when we check the mirror, and when we change things up dramatically, as by starting to wear updos, it takes time to get used to the new look and it can feel awkward and weird-looking for a while. You might try wearing updos when you're just doing chores around home, so there's less self-consciousness while you try something new.

[SwordWomanRiona]

This site http://www.look-fabulous.com/celebrities-with-round-shaped-faces.html has a list of celebrities with round face shapes... An easy thing to do is pick one with the most similar face shape to yours, and then google them with updos, and learn how to do the ones that look good on them! :D

I've browsed through that page, and I must rant again, I hate the fact that 'fashion' is always trying to force us into fitting society's established models! "Long-faced people can't wear their hair long and straight because it would make their face longer"..."Round-faced people should try to hide their round face with layers"..."Square-faced people should do so and so to hide their angular jaw and soften their face to make it more feminine :mad::mad:",...
I hate that last one because I'm square-faced (my face begins to get a little bit oval, but it's wider than it's long and it's angular), and people, I love my square jaw, and I don't want to hide it at all. Why does society dare to say a square jaw is 'hard' and 'unfeminine' (Patriarchy's words!)? And what if a round-faced or long-faced person actually likes their round/long face? Why should we hate how we look like and try to hide and change our own face/body/hair type just because society says they're unbecoming?! :rant:

Right, end of hijacking rant :). But I really had to say that, I feel so strongly about the subject.

[FrozenBritannia]

I've browsed through that page, and I must rant again, I hate the fact that 'fashion' is always trying to force us into fitting society's established models! "Long-faced people can't wear their hair long and straight because it would make their face longer"..."Round-faced people should try to hide their round face with layers"..."Square-faced people should do so and so to hide their angular jaw and soften their face to make it more feminine :mad::mad:",...
I hate that last one because I'm square-faced (my face begins to get a little bit oval, but it's wider than it's long and it's angular), and people, I love my square jaw, and I don't want to hide it at all. Why does society dare to say a square jaw is 'hard' and 'unfeminine' (Patriarchy's words!)? And what if a round-faced or long-faced person actually likes their round/long face? Why should we hate how we look like and try to hide and change our own face/body/hair type just because society says they're unbecoming?! :rant:

Right, end of hijacking rant :). But I really had to say that, i feel so strongly about the subject.



I'm on the square side of oval too, and I understand what you're saying. Which is I why I put to google the star with the similar face shape and not just stay on the page. :) It's all well and good for the page to say blah blah blah, but if you look at it and decide that your face shape is similar to drew barrymore, and you google "drew barrymore updo" you are bound to see everything from pigtails to crown braids and it won't all be what 'society' thinks she should wear but what she feels comfortable in, and what might work for you too.

The thing about these sites is that no two sites have the same celebs for each face shape, I have seen halle berry called a perfect oval, a square, and an upside down triangle, which all have different "rules", but if your face is a similar shape to Halle Berry, by googling her you'll know that ten to one you will look fab with short hair, and that you'll disappear behind heavy shoulder length layers-unless your hair is pure white. (which isn't to say you shouldn't have them, some people want to disappear).
here are some drew updo's:

http://www.stylebistro.com/lookbook/Drew+Barrymore/DG_wp1T3AhE/Updos

the pics just show that when she piles her hair on top of her head, the focus of her face is on her jaw. When she pulls it back flat, the focus is her cheekbones. Which type hairstyle to wear would just matter on which part of your face you like best, or want to highlight that day.

(All these you's are theoretical, just to clarify)

[kidari]

I have a round face also. The worst kind of updo for me would be a tightly pulled back low neat bun with no bangs. If I wear a low bun I like to have it voluminous and messy and off to the side with some volume up top. Having long layerered bangs help as well as thin tapered pieces that hang down slightly above each ear. My favorite go to updo is a high sock bun that I like to decorate with a feather hairband or a big flower clip. I also like french twists with a bump in the crown area. Sometimes I curl my hair first and then pile it up on top of my head in sections and pin it down. If you do a low bun you can make a pouf or faux hawk type thing in the front and hold it with bobby pins and then make your low bun.

[Orangerthanred]

Thanks people.

And like I said before, bangs and short layers do not work with my hair at all...

[Orangerthanred]

Oh, and I will be forcing myself to wear my hair in a high bun tomorrow. I'll post about how it goes. I'm a bit worried about everyone seeing my ears- they aren't protruding, but they go out a little bit.

[Orangerthanred]

I've browsed through that page, and I must rant again, I hate the fact that 'fashion' is always trying to force us into fitting society's established models! "Long-faced people can't wear their hair long and straight because it would make their face longer"..."Round-faced people should try to hide their round face with layers"..."Square-faced people should do so and so to hide their angular jaw and soften their face to make it more feminine :mad::mad:",...
I hate that last one because I'm square-faced (my face begins to get a little bit oval, but it's wider than it's long and it's angular), and people, I love my square jaw, and I don't want to hide it at all. Why does society dare to say a square jaw is 'hard' and 'unfeminine' (Patriarchy's words!)? And what if a round-faced or long-faced person actually likes their round/long face? Why should we hate how we look like and try to hide and change our own face/body/hair type just because society says they're unbecoming?! :rant:

Right, end of hijacking rant :). But I really had to say that, I feel so strongly about the subject.



I agree, but there is something I would like to mention.

According to the science of attraction, 'beautiful/attractive' female features are:
Narrower facial shape
Less fat
Fuller lips
Slightly bigger distance of eyes
Darker, narrower eye brows
More, longer and darker lashes
Higher cheek bones
Narrower nose
No eye rings
Thinner lids

So the perfect woman would look like this, in general: http://colinsbeautypages.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/beautiful-face.jpg

It's not just society that says a square jaw is masculine, a round face is too wide, or a long face is a horse face. It's, apparently, something in our brains.

Check this out: http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Psychologie/Psy_II/beautycheck/english/prototypen/prototypen.htm

[Intransigentia]

Even if it is in our brains, so what? There's probably an ideal masculine face too, but how many men do you know who worry about camoflaging this or bringing out that when they do their hair? Why do you, as a woman, have to stress and worry and constrain while they just do what they like?

For myself, I've found radical acceptance is the way to go. The question that helped me was: What if tall people dressed to look taller and people with big butts dressed to emphasize their butts and people with flat chests dressed to look flatter? Why is fashion all about making everything look the same?

The other thing is, all that crap about camoflaging different shapes with optical illusions is so much :bs: Because you dislike the roundness of your face, you'll see it in the mirror every time you look, no matter what you've done with your hair or your clothes or your makeup or your glasses or whatever. Besides, unless your face is really extremely round and you do something like one bun above each ear, most people really aren't looking at you closely enough for it to even register.

[FrozenBritannia]

Ah yes, and the Golden Ratio... They also say that infants find people who have symmetrical features more attractive too.

On that note, there was a study which looked into whether people with tattoos and piercing are more likely to be unsymmetrical in their features. It discovered that one the whole, people with tattoos and piercing are more symmetrical than the rest of us, not less. Apparently, they are so brimming with great genes that they can risk their health more than less symmetrical folk. (according to the study's reasoning anyways. Quite interesting.)

[Lianna]

people with big butts dressed to emphasize their butts

Some people do that! :p

[SwordWomanRiona]

I agree, but there is something I would like to mention.

According to the science of attraction, 'beautiful/attractive' female features are:
Narrower facial shape
Less fat
Fuller lips
Slightly bigger distance of eyes
Darker, narrower eye brows
More, longer and darker lashes
Higher cheek bones
Narrower nose
No eye rings
Thinner lids

So the perfect woman would look like this, in general: http://colinsbeautypages.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/beautiful-face.jpg

It's not just society that says a square jaw is masculine, a round face is too wide, or a long face is a horse face. It's, apparently, something in our brains.

Check this out: http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Psychologie/Psy_II/beautycheck/english/prototypen/prototypen.htm

As a science student, I would like to point out that nothing related to likes/dislikes, or any subjective or aesthetic issues can be treated scientifically. One can't make a 'perfect face'-study and claim that's scientific and true for everybody and the universal 'perfect' face, because these kind of studies have no scientific basis at all. They're just based in what some people think is 'perfect', and that's hardly something you can measure or prove. Science only works with things that can be measured in an objective way. The 'perfect woman' (or man) isn't something one can set as a generalized theorem necessarily true for everyone.
If it's something in our brains, then I think it has to do with what society has inserted there (its approved values about what is beautiful and what isn't, for example). I for example would add an angular jaw to my 'ideal face', and that is considered unattractive to many people, and it defies society's set rules about what is beautiful. So if society's perfect face doesn't work for me (I tend to like long faces too, so you can see they don't), then maybe some part of my brain has refused to accept those set rules.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to think that something so subjective as what's beautiful and what's not has any scientific basis. You can't measure 'beauty' with any instrument.

Sorry if I seem angry, I'm more impassioned and earnest than angry, really, and I'm not trying to flame anyone :). I'm just sad that so many people feel bad against some part of themselves because it's not what it's considered 'perfect' (what's perfect, anyway?). I'm not saying we should 100% love all our features, because it's improbable, but we shouldn't feel bad about them just because they're not what society's "scientific" studies say it's more beautiful. What a horrible lie to lower everybody's self-esteem with :(.

[SwordWomanRiona]

Even if it is in our brains, so what? There's probably an ideal masculine face too, but how many men do you know who worry about camoflaging this or bringing out that when they do their hair? Why do you, as a woman, have to stress and worry and constrain while they just do what they like?

For myself, I've found radical acceptance is the way to go. The question that helped me was: What if tall people dressed to look taller and people with big butts dressed to emphasize their butts and people with flat chests dressed to look flatter? Why is fashion all about making everything look the same?

The other thing is, all that crap about camoflaging different shapes with optical illusions is so much :bs: Because you dislike the roundness of your face, you'll see it in the mirror every time you look, no matter what you've done with your hair or your clothes or your makeup or your glasses or whatever. Besides, unless your face is really extremely round and you do something like one bun above each ear, most people really aren't looking at you closely enough for it to even register.

Thanks for this, Intransigentia :thumbsup:.

[Mairéad]

As a science student, I would like to point out that nothing related to likes/dislikes, or any subjective or aesthetic issues can be treated scientifically. One can't make a 'perfect face'-study and claim that's scientific and true for everybody and the universal 'perfect' face, because these kind of studies have no scientific basis at all. They're just based in what some people think is 'perfect', and that's hardly something you can measure or prove. The 'perfect woman' (or man) isn't something one can set as a generalized theorem necessarily true for everyone.
If it's something in our brains, then I think it has to do with what society has inserted there (its approved values about what is beautiful and what isn't, for example). I for example would add an angular jaw to my 'ideal face', and that is considered unattractive to many people, and it defies society's set rules about what is beautiful. So if society's perfect face doesn't work for me (I tend to like long faces too, so you can see they don't), then maybe some part of my brain has refused to accept those set rules.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to think that something so subjective as what's beautiful and what's not has any scientific basis. You can't measure 'beauty' with any instrument.

Sorry if I seem angry, I'm more impassioned and earnest than angry, really, and I'm not trying to flame anyone :). I'm just sad that so many people feel bad against some part of themselves because it's not what it's considered 'perfect' (what's perfect, anyway?). I'm not saying we should 100% love all our features, because it's improbable, but we shouldn't feel bad about them just because they're not what society's "scientific" studies say it's more beautiful. What a horible lie to lower everybody's self-esteem with :(.

Thank you, I think was the kind of reply I was trying to think of. I'm also a science student and everything I do can solidly be measured and an absolute result can be derived from my experiments. You can't quantitatively measure how attractive someone is. It's all subjective, categorical data (at best). You could survey every person in the world and they're all going to have a different answer. Read studies and articles very carefully. After taking a statistics course my mind has been opened to how to interpret all the scientific articles I had to read in a better way.

[SwordWomanRiona]

Thank you, I think was the kind of reply I was trying to think of. I'm also a science student and everything I do can solidly be measured and an absolute result can be derived from my experiments. You can't quantitatively measure how attractive someone is. It's all subjective, categorical data (at best). You could survey every person in the world and they're all going to have a different answer. Read studies and articles very carefully. After taking a statistics course my mind has been opened to how to interpret all the scientific articles I had to read in a better way.

I agree. You can do a survey and ask a lot of people about their ideal face, but that's not a scientific study at all. Many people tend to think it is because someone has calculated some results and all that, but they are dealing with data that can't be measured in an objective, quantitative way. They are dealing with subjective, intangible data and the result of such a survey can't be set as a rule. Science does not deal with anything subjective.
*Scientists getting (rightfully) touchy, oh gods :)*

[Mairéad]

*Scientists getting (rightfully) touchy, oh gods :)*

The last thing you want is a room full of scientists with their panties in a twist.

[Rosetta]

As a science student, I would like to point out that nothing related to likes/dislikes, or any subjective or aesthetic issues can be treated scientifically. One can't make a 'perfect face'-study and claim that's scientific and true for everybody and the universal 'perfect' face, because these kind of studies have no scientific basis at all. They're just based in what some people think is 'perfect', and that's hardly something you can measure or prove. Science only works with things that can be measured in an objective way. The 'perfect woman' (or man) isn't something one can set as a generalized theorem necessarily true for everyone.
If it's something in our brains, then I think it has to do with what society has inserted there (its approved values about what is beautiful and what isn't, for example). I for example would add an angular jaw to my 'ideal face', and that is considered unattractive to many people, and it defies society's set rules about what is beautiful. So if society's perfect face doesn't work for me (I tend to like long faces too, so you can see they don't), then maybe some part of my brain has refused to accept those set rules.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to think that something so subjective as what's beautiful and what's not has any scientific basis. You can't measure 'beauty' with any instrument.


You can't quantitatively measure how attractive someone is. It's all subjective, categorical data (at best). You could survey every person in the world and they're all going to have a different answer. Read studies and articles very carefully.

Completely agree with these!

And also agree about how wrong it is to put forth some kind of "ideal" face shape, i.e. oval, that everyone else, faulty as they are (supposed to be), should try their best to emulate :(

(And in my opinion oval isn't even the most beautiful face shape, of those well-known ones, it would be heart-shaped...)

[FrozenBritannia]

Isn't the golden ratio a mathematical formula? I was under the impression that the ratios are also used for architecture. It's less of a beauty thing and more of a symmetry thing.

[torrilin]

Isn't the golden ratio a mathematical formula? I was under the impression that the ratios are also used for architecture. It's less of a beauty thing and more of a symmetry thing.

Symmetry is both a key element of various branches of mathematics *and* a key element of a wide variety of artistic studies. Very few ideas in life are exclusively scientific, exclusively technical or exclusively artistic.

And unfortunately, the golden ratio has not got much to do with symmetry. It is a mathematical ratio that tends to show up in a wide variety of natural forms, for no reason we can identify yet. It is most closely associated with spiral structures like sea shells or the spiral shape of a pine cone... and a spiral by definition isn't symmetrical.

Most folks would get their intense work on golden ratio in biology class or in art class. Mostly art.


Oh, and I will be forcing myself to wear my hair in a high bun tomorrow. I'll post about how it goes. I'm a bit worried about everyone seeing my ears- they aren't protruding, but they go out a little bit.

Trust me, your ears are supposed to stick out a bit. How else would your glasses stay on? And who wants to look like someone chopped their ear off? The Van Gogh look is no good for anyone.

As far as face shape... instead of focusing on how awful your round face is, and how dreadful it is that it is Not Oval... why not try looking for something you like? My face is very round, and I don't really have a chin, and I definitely have very broad and prominent cheekbones. Sounds horrid right? But... I like heart shaped faces. They sound pretty and romantic to me, and they *look* pretty and romantic to me. And... my dreadful chinlessness is pretty easy to nudge into a more heart shaped look with the right hairstyle and neckline. Whee! I too can look pretty and romantic!

[FrozenBritannia]

[quote=torrilin;1797957]Symmetry is both a key element of various branches of mathematics *and* a key element of a wide variety of artistic studies. Very few ideas in life are exclusively scientific, exclusively technical or exclusively artistic.

And unfortunately, the golden ratio has not got much to do with symmetry. It is a mathematical ratio that tends to show up in a wide variety of natural forms, for no reason we can identify yet. It is most closely associated with spiral structures like sea shells or the spiral shape of a pine cone... and a spiral by definition isn't symmetrical.

Most folks would get their intense work on golden ratio in biology class or in art class. Mostly art.

Ah, well there you go. I took art and chemistry but not biology. :) Although I could swear I saw a bit in a program about how the golden ratio applied to a cathedral in France..It's entirely possible that I have got that part mixed up with something else though. :)

[Dorothy]

I agree with all this about not being able to trust science to tell us what's beautiful. And I'm about to go a little sideways here so either bear with me or move on to the next post.

I've been reading the most fascinating book
The Technology of Orgasm
"Hysteria," the Vibrator, and Women's Sexual Satisfaction"
Which is basically a history of Androcentric views of sex that will twist the science in any necessary way to ensure that what's viewed as normal in heterosexual sex is male organ in female orifice until male orgasms, throughout CENTURIES of scientific observation, despite the fact that only somewhere between 25% and 33% of women regularly orgasm from intercourse. Masters and Johnson, famous and respected sex researchers, excluded all women who did not regularly orgasm from intercourse (i.e. 75% of women) from all their studies on the basis that such women were not "normal". If "normal" means in any way average, usual, typical, in the middle of the bell curve, then women who have orgasm from intercourse are outliers, not normal. She goes on to discuss a rich tradition of "hysterical" women deprived of orgasms by partners with androcentric views of sex visiting doctors and/or midwives who brought them to "hysterical paroxysm" (orgasm) either manually or with a time saving medical device, the vibrator, on a regular (often weekly) basis. This service comprised 75% of MD visits during the 1900's and was going on in the 2nd century AD.

OK, OK, so it's off topic, but I'm on fire for the lord about this now. And I do think it illustrates that the results of science are altered by our assumptions in ways we have enormous difficulty seeing. And it is no surprise that persons polled about what shapes are attractive have big biases toward oval faces when every face on the cover of a magazine is oval and the covers are filled with instructions about how to make your non oval face look oval.

And I recommend this book, it's available on Amazon and it's fascinating, hysterical (funny ha ha), and academic, all at the same time....

We will now return to normal programming....

[FrozenBritannia]

I agree with all this about not being able to trust science to tell us what's beautiful. And I'm about to go a little sideways here so either bear with me or move on to the next post.

I've been reading the most fascinating book
The Technology of Orgasm
"Hysteria," the Vibrator, and Women's Sexual Satisfaction"
Which is basically a history of Androcentric views of sex that will twist the science in any necessary way to ensure that what's viewed as normal in heterosexual sex is male organ in female orifice until male orgasms, throughout CENTURIES of scientific observation, despite the fact that only somewhere between 25% and 33% of women regularly orgasm from intercourse. Masters and Johnson, famous and respected sex researchers, excluded all women who did not regularly orgasm from intercourse (i.e. 75% of women) from all their studies on the basis that such women were not "normal". If "normal" means in any way average, usual, typical, in the middle of the bell curve, then women who have orgasm from intercourse are outliers, not normal. She goes on to discuss a rich tradition of "hysterical" women deprived of orgasms by partners with androcentric views of sex visiting doctors and/or midwives who brought them to "hysterical paroxysm" (orgasm) either manually or with a time saving medical device, the vibrator, on a regular (often weekly) basis. This service comprised 75% of MD visits during the 1900's and was going on in the 2nd century AD.

OK, OK, so it's off topic, but I'm on fire for the lord about this now. And I do think it illustrates that the results of science are altered by our assumptions in ways we have enormous difficulty seeing. And it is no surprise that persons polled about what shapes are attractive have big biases toward oval faces when every face on the cover of a magazine is oval and the covers are filled with instructions about how to make your non oval face look oval.

And I recommend this book, it's available on Amazon and it's fascinating, hysterical (funny ha ha), and academic, all at the same time....

We will now return to normal programming....

LMAO. That's not allowed nowdays! I can see why housecalls were so popular though.

[swearnsue]

As Elaine in Seinfeld says, "Fake, fake fake fake." LOL