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Cania
September 24th, 2011, 07:57 AM
Apparently.

Not sure what you all think, but I personally hope my hairdresser's internal monologue isn't so rude :|

Here (http://www.rd.com/13-things/13-things-your-hairstylist-wont-tell-you/)

and

Here (http://www.rd.com/13-things/15-more-things-your-hairstylist-wont-tell-you/)

jojo
September 24th, 2011, 08:14 AM
Oh my!

things a customer really means-

1) just a small trim.....when I mean a small trim I mean teeny tiny

2) No it must be 12 months since I came for a professional cut..........ive been trimming my own as I can never trust you 100% to cut the exact amount I ask for

3) yes really I don't use a hair dryer, I just air dry.............it is possible and stops my hair from breaking, I actually prefer to air dry. Really you should cpme a long to the LHC, you would be surprised at some of the tips there :D

Lostsoule77
September 24th, 2011, 08:24 AM
I can actually get a lot of that. I work in retail and know how difficult it is. Plus my friend is a stylist. I don't agree with the having to have layers thing since I hate them on me. Most of the other stuff is just what used to be considered common courtesy. I totally agree with Jojo though. :)

heartgoesboom
September 24th, 2011, 08:26 AM
10. Take a picture. Some clients will say, “Cut my hair just like you did last time.” That always baffles me. The average time between appointments is six to eight weeks. I have hundreds of clients. How am I supposed to remember exactly how I did your hair the last time? If you want a carbon copy of a cut and style you loved, take a picture and show me.

hah, i've seen people tell my hairstylist they want their hair done like last time... except my hairstylist wasn't the person who did their hair last. but she's pretty good at figuring things out.

11. Kids’ haircuts aren’t child’s play. Why do you think a child’s haircut should cost less than yours? Kids don’t sit still. Kids kick. It’s an intense experience.

that is true! why are kid's hair cuts cheaper?

Fortresca
September 24th, 2011, 08:35 AM
I like that list(s). But most of those my hairdresser told me :) I think she is great. But maybe thats because we're in a small city and it would trash her business to tell wrong things... like people talk, you know?

MinderMutsig
September 24th, 2011, 08:36 AM
11. Kids’ haircuts aren’t child’s play. Why do you think a child’s haircut should cost less than yours? Kids don’t sit still. Kids kick. It’s an intense experience.

that is true! why are kid's hair cuts cheaper?
I think people who cut children's hair should be paid double, tipped triple and get free drinks at your local bar.

gretchen_hair
September 24th, 2011, 08:49 AM
Some of the remarks are snotty, urg. Some of the remarks and advice was ok but some things they said came off really crappy.

(ie, your shampoo girl can't do anything with your dollar, they need at least 3) If you are paying for a cut in a cheaper place lets say 15 bucks and are paying a tip, tax, etc and someone washes your hair and you give them a buck, I think that it should be accepted with gratitude not snottiness) There were some things that just rubbed me the wrong way and sounded rather hateful and snarky.

(not that I wash my hair in salons, or not that I wouldn't tip someone more, it just sounded kinda crappy the way it was said. Among other things)

hs_atreides
September 24th, 2011, 08:55 AM
I think most of it is common courtesy that we, as customers, can sometimes forget. We get comfortable and feel that we are friendly with the stylist but that shouldn't mean we trample all over basic etiquette. I am patient and calm, I bring pics to clarify what I want, and my kids behave themselves when getting a cut.
However, I have been on the recieving end of some snarky, pretentious hairstylist attitude and will not tolerate it. Thankfully, that has been the exception :)

may1em
September 24th, 2011, 08:56 AM
The tip about not overloading your hair with product is a good one.

And everyone deserves to be paid for their time.

Not an entirely unreasonable list - a few sounded judgmental, but she seems like she's professional.

UltraBella
September 24th, 2011, 09:18 AM
I think people who cut children's hair should be paid double, tipped triple and get free drinks at your local bar.

I could not agree with this more !!!

Some of the things on those lists I totally agree with, but some I don't. I do have manicurists and massage therapists in my salon, I want to fulfill all your needs so don't have to go somewhere else.
Most of my gals get to know their clients on a personal level, so we want to know what's going on in your life, how your kids are, is your mom still being hard on you, etc.......because we care.

Madora
September 24th, 2011, 09:29 AM
Agree with most of it..except the layers statement.

And I've heard that "cut it like you did last time" statement several times too. A bit of a stretch, unless the client was just in a few weeks ago!

archel
September 24th, 2011, 09:39 AM
I can relate to a lot of these, having been a makeup artist for 10+ years. I had some rather "interesting" clients come to me wanting to look like popular movie stars. I had men coming to me wanting to look like women (they were FUN clients too)! I had to gently explain to people that makeup is to enhance, not to completely change a person.

I wouldn't want them to bring their dog in, though :)

And yes! Free drinks to the people who cut kids' hair!!

UltraBella
September 24th, 2011, 09:55 AM
I can relate to a lot of these, having been a makeup artist for 10+ years. I had some rather "interesting" clients come to me wanting to look like popular movie stars. I had men coming to me wanting to look like women (they were FUN clients too)! I had to gently explain to people that makeup is to enhance, not to completely change a person.

I wouldn't want them to bring their dog in, though :)

And yes! Free drinks to the people who cut kids' hair!!

Here in Montana it's actually illegal to bring your animal into a salon unless it is a service dog. Salon owners can bring their own dog to work if they carry special insurance and post that there is dog on premises. Why would you do that to your dog ??? Their poor sensitive noses and all those chemicals ! Animal cruelty, seriously.

As for makeup, I am all for enhancing OR completely transforming someone, whatever my clients want. Drag queen clients are the very best clients EVER and there are no subtle enhancements going on, it is a full work of art by the time we are done !

MsBubbles
September 24th, 2011, 10:03 AM
Oh God I quit reading at # 5 (layers). Please. Yeah I want all-one-length layers so people can think I'm still in high school...:rolleyes:.

jojo
September 24th, 2011, 10:47 AM
I thought that about bringing dogs in a salon, though i remember years back an old woman sat next to me with a poodle on her knee, though it was the 70's and I was a wee child wondering if the dog was having his hair cut too :D

kimberlyjoy
September 24th, 2011, 10:55 AM
Having been a hairstylists for a while, I can agree with a lot of those statements. The one about layers, though, I have to respectfully disagree with. I always listened to my clients and gave them what they asked for. I must have done all right because I had a lot of repeat customers.

MsBubbles
September 24th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Having been a hairstylists for a while, I can agree with a lot of those statements. The one about layers, though, I have to respectfully disagree with. .

Thank you! Although it's fine with me if you disrespectfully disagree, since the article was unnecessarily snarky (probably in an attempt to be humorous).

unknown
September 24th, 2011, 11:26 AM
I agree with most of the things written, except for the tipping.
So far I haven't found a hairdesser who actually does what I ask him/her to, and they are insulting me most of the time.
BSL hair seems to be "super long" and "should be cut so it looks modern".
My last hairdresser actually yelled at in front of everyone for cutting my bangs myself (it looked good) and tried to make me get blonde streaks in my hair instead of purple because I was pale and she didn't think purple would look good.
BSL hair is also enough for them to tell me that I have to pay 80-100 dollars for a basic cut because of the length/thickness. Why the hell would I pay 20 percent extra for a failed, expensive cut and being insulted by the one who holds a scissor at my hair?

And people using their hairdressers like psychologists and telling them everything about their life is simply stupid, I mean, do they really think the hairdresser cares or could help them with their issues?

BerryFlap
September 24th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Some of the comments are quite rude, but I guess if you've been a hairdresser for so long and you've heard these things so many times they can get on your nerves, and sarcastic or ironic humour (which was probably her intention) isn't easy to convey through simple text :P


I do think that hairdressers are horribly underpaid for their work; they go through hours and hours of clients, always on their feet, suffering through hair dye fumes, hairdryer noise (and heat - the salon I go to can become a sauna if you go late in the day) overly-chatty customers (honestly, the things some people talk about XD) and on top of all that, concentrating on not making a mess of your clients hair.


Cheap haircuts for kids, something I also don't get. Unless the child is an angel then really they should pay full price; it's not like hair expands and becomes like chopping wood when you're over 8 years old, the labour is still going to be exactly the same toll on the hairdresser.


I guess when you come out of the hairdressers complaining about too much length off (I do it all the time, shame on me!) you don't always think of their POV. I guess in a way the article has opened my eyes a bit :)

julierockhead
September 24th, 2011, 11:34 AM
I could not agree with this more !!!

Some of the things on those lists I totally agree with, but some I don't. I do have manicurists and massage therapists in my salon, I want to fulfill all your needs so don't have to go somewhere else.
Most of my gals get to know their clients on a personal level, so we want to know what's going on in your life, how your kids are, is your mom still being hard on you, etc.......because we care.

I want an appointment!

Cassie 123
September 24th, 2011, 11:50 AM
I believe bringing dogs into the salon is against the law here, too, but wealthy girls with pocket-sized dogs apparently have an exemption from society's usual rules.

I tip $10 for a kids haircut.

Mairéad
September 24th, 2011, 12:01 PM
I couldn't disagree more about the layers thing. I look nice with a face frame since I have some sort of crazy cheek bones but layers through the length usually look like an accident on me. It never blends together.

Yozhik
September 24th, 2011, 12:43 PM
Overall, I found some of the comments to be pretty mean.
I can see where the hair stylist is coming from, though.

Quick question to those hairstylists who've chimed in on this thread -- what is the etiquette for tipping salon owners? I thought the deal with tipping was you tip the hairstylists who aren't the owners because they rent their space, but the owner is making money from the business plus from the rent, so it's considered rude to tip them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. When I used to go to salons, I'd tip everyone, so I when I heard the above I wondered if I had offended/not done the right thing.

TIA! :flower:

ddiana1979
September 24th, 2011, 12:49 PM
This one:

13. Putting too much junk in your hair will almost always kill a look. The market is saturated with every possible product to make thin hair thick, dull hair shiny, and curly hair straight. But more is not more. Your hair wants to be healthy. That doesn’t mean trying to totally recreate it every day. Just help it a little. Let it do its thing.

cracks me up. Every time I walk out of a salon I have more gunk & goo in my hair than I thought humanly possible. LOL At home I put in a wee bit of NightBlooming's Triple Moon oil after I wash my hair and *occasionally* some hairspray on my bangs. At the salon, they've never used less than three products.

UltraBella
September 24th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Overall, I found some of the comments to be pretty mean.
I can see where the hair stylist is coming from, though.

Quick question to those hairstylists who've chimed in on this thread -- what is the etiquette for tipping salon owners? I thought the deal with tipping was you tip the hairstylists who aren't the owners because they rent their space, but the owner is making money from the business plus from the rent, so it's considered rude to tip them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. When I used to go to salons, I'd tip everyone, so I when I heard the above I wondered if I had offended/not done the right thing.

TIA! :flower:

Tipping in the hair industry is a sign that you are pleased with the work the stylist has done. Anyone will appreciate a tip, the owner included, however - it is also not necessary.
Yesterday I did electrolysis and permanent cosmetics all day and I made exactly $50 in tips. All my clients know I am the owner, they tip me because they appreciate me.

BunnyBee
September 24th, 2011, 01:01 PM
Yeah overall they sound like pretty reasonable things to ask for. Of course they sound a bit mean, that's why they're thoughts not things you would say out loud!

Unfortunately not all "professional stylists" *do* know what they're doing, and that's fine for the majority, but i'll continue keeping my hair far away from them.

delsh
September 24th, 2011, 01:02 PM
This is just awful.


8. Men will tell you things they won’t tell their wives. “My throat hurts.” “My back aches.” They want a little sympathy, which maybe they can’t get at home because their wives have heard it all before, or they’re not listening. So they tell us. It’s the only place they can unload.


11. Leave it at the door. When a client is unusually whiny, most of the time it’s because she’s having a hard time with her husband or boyfriend, or she’s having problems at work, or she’s not getting along with her kids. I don’t want her problems.

The blatant sexism is just mind-blowing. A woman talking about her problems is whiny and unwanted, but a man doing the same thing deserves sympathy because his wife obviously doesn't listen to him. Makes me feel ill!

Yozhik
September 24th, 2011, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the explanation, UltraBella! :)

Blackfire
September 24th, 2011, 02:02 PM
I feel out of place when people talk about stylists. My mom always cut my hair and it was always long, when I got it cut short I went to a snip and clip and had to cut then kept up with it myself. Ive done all my own color, and all my own trims in my adult like. I laugh when someone with seriously crappy hair tells me about their "stylist" advice. They actually PAID someone to kill their hair with chemical and heat. niiiicee.

that being said, this list made me kinda laugh, and also some of it was true of any bussiness, like the canceling appointments, and just wanting things that you shouldnt have.

Blackfire
September 24th, 2011, 02:04 PM
Delsh, I noticed that too, although I ussumed this article was written by a female so it didnt strike me as sexist. More like a woman sick of hearing of womens issues. it could be taken either way, but thats just the way I read it...if that makes sense?

invisiblebabe
September 24th, 2011, 02:10 PM
This one was weird to me:

13. We see women at their worst. Their hair is wet, they have foils on their hair, they have no makeup on. There’s nothing for them to hide behind. So they tell us everything. The truth is, I really don’t care what they do sexually. I’m only interested in their hair.

Why would a person have to go to the salon without makeup, assuming they are only there for a cut or color? I always wear makeup there...

hototogisu
September 24th, 2011, 03:12 PM
I TOTALLY agree with Delsh. That article was snarky, sexist and super-mean. Don't even get me started on that bitchy point about women with 'round faces' who need to look in a mirror. Not to mention that mean comment about using to much product. I've seen great hairdressers; the great ones recommend one or two products and respect the way I style my hair and talk through what I mean by a 'trim.' These hairdressers get my money and my loyalty. Bad ones oversell products, don't listen to what I have to say, and torture my poor hair.

But, to be frank, I've basically given up on professional stylists - I much prefer the way my hair looks when I cut and colour it myself. And I get a LOT of compliments on my hair!

lillikins
September 24th, 2011, 03:16 PM
And this is why I cut and dye my own hair. xD I have serious trust issues when it comes to stylists. I'd prefer to just do it myself. A lot of them are really stuck up and rude, too, as that article just goes to prove.

There are some wonderful stylists out there,though... don't get me wrong. :)

didrash
September 24th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Most of the things in the list are true, but the way they were said was rude and uncaring. "Leave the terminology to the professional?" The people are just trying to use your language, correct them if they are wrong. Hairstyling required training, but it is not brain surgery, explaining a few terms to the customer from whom you expect a 20% tip will not hurt. And the part about whining people is so disrespectful! People often go to the salon as a form of relaxation. If you want their money, you put up with their whining. You provide a service but there is competition, so being snotty and acting like royalty does not help you make that living.

ETA: I did not mean this as if stylists work is easy, I meant that most people should be able to understand what "thinning" means if it is explained to them.

BlazingHeart
September 24th, 2011, 05:06 PM
Wow...all the stuff about not wanting to hear about your life...heh. My stylist also cuts my mom's hair, she asks me about school, my fiance, my sister, my nephew. And no fuss about my service dog, which I appreciate - some places forget that I need him and have a right to have him.

I'm a little nervous about having her trim my long hair, but as she's always done exactly what I asked when my hair was shorter (and for that matter, the one time my hair was this long and I wanted Jennifer Aniston style layers, she did the layering in the front and left the length alone) so I expect that if I ask for an inch off, I'll get an inch off.

Too bad she's on the other side of the country, so I can't have her maintain my hair while I grow out the sorta-layers I have from having my hair very short the last time I cut it. Hopefully I'll have enough length that they can all go at once without making my hair too short to bun the next time I'm out there.

The sexism in this article did make me roll my eyes, as did the advice about specific cuts, but most of it just expected you treat your stylist like a human being (although it was rather snarky about it, but that's the way everyone seems to write nowadays), which I can totally get behind. My stylist always undercharges me, same price she charged 15 years ago when I was 12, so I tip her almost half of what she charges me.

~Blaze

Lianna
September 24th, 2011, 05:26 PM
"14. Do not attempt hairstylist-speak. Do you really know what “thinning” or “graduation” mean? Leave the terminology to the professionals."

Because hair knowlegde isn't acessible to the "common folk"? <major eyeroll> I think one should absolutely know what they are asking for, or denying.

jojo
September 24th, 2011, 06:10 PM
On the subject of tipping and us in the UK are obsessed with it, I always make a point of tipping waitresses because they really are on low wages and work so hard and also hair dressers for the same reason; to say they have to train to do this and be paid a pittance is disgraceful.

What I dont get is why do hairdressers add like &#163;10 on top of my bill because I have long hair? like shorter hair needs re-styling, mine only needs the ends equaling up! hense why I trim my own!

jojo
September 24th, 2011, 06:12 PM
"14. Do not attempt hairstylist-speak. Do you really know what “thinning” or “graduation” mean? Leave the terminology to the professionals."

Because hair knowlegde isn't acessible to the "common folk"? <major eyeroll> I think one should absolutely know what they are asking for, or denying.

I found this statement quite patronising, like im a nurse and don't use medical jargon as not to confuse patients but surely if your getting a certain style its a good thing to know the terminology? they sound a bit too big for their boots if you ask me:eyebrows:

Blond On Blond
September 24th, 2011, 06:13 PM
This is called venting and is not meant to be taken seriously, relax ya all ;) Ask anyone who has to deal with customers/clients on a daily basis (waitress, nurse, especially in the ER, cashier), you'll get pretty much the same picture. I had a good laugh :D And I agree - the comment on layers WAS stupid ;)

leslissocool
September 24th, 2011, 06:30 PM
I agree with most of it, some is snarky but overall is true.


I think people who cut children's hair should be paid double, tipped triple and get free drinks at your local bar.

Yes, for the love of God YES!!!

That's why I havent' taken the twins for haircuts. I cut their bangs a bit, but really I won't take them to a salon until they are old enough to sit still. It's hell for me to even dress them, it's pointless to me for kids that are younger than 4-6 to go to an actual salon. just let their hair grow until they can sit still with a toy. I'll never understand taking toddlers to a hair dresser.

Prettyeyes23
September 24th, 2011, 08:57 PM
I found these 15 points pretty funny, especially the comment about layers being a MUST!

Children's haircuts should cost more and generate larger tips? What a great idea, but with my job, and most jobs, I dont make more money dealing with more difficult clients!

LadyG
September 24th, 2011, 09:35 PM
When my boys went in for hair cuts, we always double tipped. They deserved every penny!

KwaveT
September 24th, 2011, 10:21 PM
This is called venting and is not meant to be taken seriously, relax ya all ;) Ask anyone who has to deal with customers/clients on a daily basis (waitress, nurse, especially in the ER, cashier), you'll get pretty much the same picture. I had a good laugh :D And I agree - the comment on layers WAS stupid ;)

I could probably come up with my own list like this topic on my job as Wal-mart cashier. You have got people all day long telling how to do your job and even trying to do your job for you. I have been at this 7.5 years so I know what I am doing. I had a customer other day turning the switch of my belt on and off. I am thinking leave it alone. I like it off for a reason. He also snatching the bag carousel as I am bagging. I had to take my other hand and keep it in place effectively keeping him from moving it. That is when they will usually give you a dirty look. Heck, I don't need a broke arm. Some people do this to keep you from filling bags too full. Well tell me so I can't read your mind. You got people in hurry and expecting you to do their order quickly. Schedule your time better because so many things can go wrong in retail to cost you time. Price checks, customers with WICs, customer with ad matches (had customers whose entire order is price matches), long lines are just a few of the things that can extend your wait. I am not a fast cashier. I am more of a perfectionist cashier. I focus on bagging over pure speed. If you are a repeat customer at a store get to know the different cashiers and find some that check you out how you like to be. If I said everything I think along these lines I would not have a job. I better stop or this is going to turn into a rant.

Cowgirl16
September 25th, 2011, 11:29 AM
Oh God I quit reading at # 5 (layers). Please. Yeah I want all-one-length layers so people can think I'm still in high school...:rolleyes:.

Yeah this one rubbed me the wrong way; I had shoulder length hair with layers in it in High School :shrug:

I have my hair one length because I like it that way.:D

Tomoyo
September 25th, 2011, 11:49 AM
I SORT OF agree with the highschool/layers thing, but for a broader reason than was given there...

Often I'll see women (I work at a grocery store, so I see people from all social, economic, racial and religious backgrounds) whose appearance seems to be frozen in time; women who maintain the same haircut, dress style or makeup regimen over decades, without change. Perhaps I'm making judgments I can't back up, but I have the sneaking suspicion that these women are continuing in a style that they know worked for them really well at one point, but are afraid of losing the confidence that comes with their default style and have never sought to change it up as the years go by. The resulting image is rather old-fashioned or out-of-date; the opposite effect that was hoped for.

Women who maintain a particular hairstyle because they believe it makes them "look young" are, in my opinion, missing the point of female beauty. The Ancient Greek idea of "being of one's hour" - not striving to look either older or younger - is a solid one to live by. Beauty is diverse and can be celebrated at all ages!

TrudieCat
September 25th, 2011, 12:16 PM
I SORT OF agree with the highschool/layers thing, but for a broader reason than was given there...

Often I'll see women (I work at a grocery store, so I see people from all social, economic, racial and religious backgrounds) whose appearance seems to be frozen in time; women who maintain the same haircut, dress style or makeup regimen over decades, without change. Perhaps I'm making judgments I can't back up, but I have the sneaking suspicion that these women are continuing in a style that they know worked for them really well at one point, but are afraid of losing the confidence that comes with their default style and have never sought to change it up as the years go by. The resulting image is rather old-fashioned or out-of-date; the opposite effect that was hoped for.

Women who maintain a particular hairstyle because they believe it makes them "look young" are, in my opinion, missing the point of female beauty. The Ancient Greek idea of "being of one's hour" - not striving to look either older or younger - is a solid one to live by. Beauty is diverse and can be celebrated at all ages!

Yeah, this is well said, makes sense. :) OTOH, sometimes enjoying your hair isn't about what other people think looks good, or even what might objectively be seen as the most flattering look. I think I look best with bangs, and lots of other people have told me that, but bangs are such a pain for me with my hair type that I always regret when I've got them. And most people seem to think I look best with a bob as well, which is probably true - but I want long hair, so there. :p I'd rather look a little worse and *feel* a little better, if that makes sense.

If a style is a security blanket or a way to avoid dealing with the passing of time and natural aging, that's maybe not such a good thing though, and I think that's what you were talking about here. I definitely agree with that.

Re: OP's post, I actually agree with most of the points in the lists. People expect magic from stylists sometimes and seem angry when magic doesn't happen.

Masara
September 25th, 2011, 12:38 PM
In high school, I had short, permed hair. Does this mean that if I ever choose to have short, permed hair again (not going to happen!) it's because I'm desperately trying to hold on to my youth?

I so agree with paying the same rate for kids' cuts. In fact I always tipped far more when we took my son in to get his hair cut. He's got thick, curly hair, which is even thicker along the top of his head. AND he had very sensitive ears as a child. He was so afraid that someone might touch them with a comb or scissor that he spent his whole time clutching his ears and trying to hide under the counter. Getting the dog's claws clipped was easier and less stressful for all concerned. (at least we could muzzle the dog!)

As for stylists not being interested in your life. I haven't been to our hairdresser's for 4 years but they always ask dh how I am.

Cassie 123
September 25th, 2011, 01:15 PM
Often I'll see women (I work at a grocery store, so I see people from all social, economic, racial and religious backgrounds) whose appearance seems to be frozen in time; women who maintain the same haircut, dress style or makeup regimen over decades, without change. Perhaps I'm making judgments I can't back up, but I have the sneaking suspicion that these women are continuing in a style that they know worked for them really well at one point, but are afraid of losing the confidence that comes with their default style and have never sought to change it up as the years go by. The resulting image is rather old-fashioned or out-of-date; the opposite effect that was hoped for.

Here's how I see it: fashion has a 20-year cycle. This is so that young women, beginning in the early teenage years and ending in the early thirties, get a chance to try out the full gamut of styles. Once the cycle repeats, a woman is free to choose her favorite style from the past twenty years and is no longer obliged to follow changing trends. ::ppartlytongueincheek:


The Ancient Greek idea of "being of one's hour" - not striving to look either older or younger - is a solid one to live by. Beauty is diverse and can be celebrated at all ages!

Completely aside from matters of fashion, I totally agree.

Velvet Dreamer
September 25th, 2011, 05:15 PM
I understand that this was probably a rant, but some of these things would make me, personally, feel really alienated and uncomfortable about a stylist. If I'm trying to be friendly and hold a conversation, I would love it if you at least attempted to hold one with me as well, instead of acting like you wish you were doing something else.
Being a hairstylist is a choice, and you know when you take that job that you are going to be dealing with many different people with many different personalities, and if you treat (or think of them, because, I assure you, some of us can tell when you're thinking badly of us) as a waste of time, you certainly will not be making as much money as you would like.

Seriously, though, this person sounds so bitter about being a stylist, like they just hate everything they have to do, and are just doing it because it is a job. It's odd to me- I thought people that are stylists generally do it for love of the job.

NotInPortland
September 25th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Ok I'm still just reading through the first link, but are you expected to tip the person who washes your hair in America??? That blows my mind..

ETA: Just to add in case that's confusing the reason it blows my mind is because I had no idea you even had to tip hairstylists over there, and then you have to tip the person who washes it as well? I just find that whole system a bit strange. I mean I know about tipping waitresses but I thought that was about all you were expected to tip for.

MsBubbles
September 25th, 2011, 05:57 PM
I SORT OF agree with the highschool/layers thing, but for a broader reason than was given there...

Often I'll see women (I work at a grocery store, so I see people from all social, economic, racial and religious backgrounds) whose appearance seems to be frozen in time; women who maintain the same haircut, dress style or makeup regimen over decades, without change. Perhaps I'm making judgments I can't back up, but I have the sneaking suspicion that these women are continuing in a style that they know worked for them really well at one point, but are afraid of losing the confidence that comes with their default style and have never sought to change it up as the years go by. The resulting image is rather old-fashioned or out-of-date; the opposite effect that was hoped for.

Women who maintain a particular hairstyle because they believe it makes them "look young" are, in my opinion, missing the point of female beauty. The Ancient Greek idea of "being of one's hour" - not striving to look either older or younger - is a solid one to live by. Beauty is diverse and can be celebrated at all ages!

I know you're not trying to say anything upsetting, and I hope I don't sound like I'm attacking you by attempting to defend myself here either :)...but the above bolding (mine) of your post seems to be a common contradiction. And I'm coming from a place of never having had all-one-length hip lengthed hair before, so I'm doing it now, at the age of 44. A person in WalMart would not know that I have NEVER had this hairstyle before, and am happy about finally achieving it in my forties. They might well think, as you do, that I'm 'frozen in time'. That it worked for me once, and I have kept it this way the whole time.

No. I have never had hip-length, all-one-length-layered hair. I have, instead, had it shoulder-length or shorter since I was mid-twenties, and about ten years in between had it in the classic suburban helmet-head soccer Mom do, complete with white, streaky highlights that made me look washed out.

So by thinking that seeing a middle aged lady with long, all one length hair, perhaps growing out her natural color, is sadly fooling herself...well we have really no idea what her hair history is!

Then there's that whole other issue of who's to decide what's age-appropriate for anybody, or 'being of one's hour'? It differs through the ages and by culture. Do we all just blindly follow for fear of being labeled as 'frozen in time' if we don't all have the latest age-appropriate hairstyle? To me, all the women that live where I live all look frozen in time with their layered highlights. I don't have to like it, but to each, their own!

Am I supposed to get layers in my hair so I don't look frozen in time, or out of date? Layers do not work in my fine, flat, straight hair. Not now, and not when I was in high school, either! Why would I get them if they make my hair look even thinner and stragglier? Just so that strangers in the grocery store and hairdressers who write 'articles' won't pick on my looks?

It's interesting to me to hear you say this...so thank you for voicing your opinion on this, because although I should be thinking "I'm not here to decorate anybody's world", I want my hair to look nice on me, not just plain sad. I want to be a good ad for middle-aged long hair. But I think I'm just chasing rainbows with that hope - what with my big, fat frown-marks and saggy jowls! :-D

ETA: This isn't a rant at you, Tomoyo. You just brought up some points for me that I ruminate over (obviously!).

BunnyBee
September 25th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Ok I'm still just reading through the first link, but are you expected to tip the person who washes your hair in America??? That blows my mind..

ETA: Just to add in case that's confusing the reason it blows my mind is because I had no idea you even had to tip hairstylists over there, and then you have to tip the person who washes it as well? I just find that whole system a bit strange. I mean I know about tipping waitresses but I thought that was about all you were expected to tip for.

I know right?! :p

With the exception of restaurants, I never tip anyone. I think it might be more expected in the *expensive* salons, but yeah.. I never had a haircut I liked enough to tip, hence I stopped going.

juliaxena
September 25th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Oh God I quit reading at # 5 (layers). Please. Yeah I want all-one-length layers so people can think I'm still in high school...:rolleyes:.

This. It is annoying having to practically fight with your hairdresser to ensure she doesn't make layers in spite of me specificaly asking her not to. I KNOW my hair is not thick so stop convicing me it is too thick just so you could make the bloody layers...I don't want them, I don't have the hair type for them, they make my hair look poor and so...less. So no, no layers for me, wait for the next customer, maybe she wants them. If I had Ultrabella's hair I would want them too.

Cassie 123
September 25th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Ok I'm still just reading through the first link, but are you expected to tip the person who washes your hair in America??? That blows my mind..

Tipping is always optional. A poor student having a rare salon day as a treat is not expected to be throwing cash around, but a well-to-do, middle-aged repeat customer will generally want to err on the side of generosity.

MsBubbles
September 25th, 2011, 06:40 PM
This. It is annoying having to practically fight with your hairdresser to ensure she doesn't make layers in spite of me specificaly asking her not to. I KNOW my hair is not thick so stop convicing me it is too thick just so you could make the bloody layers...I don't want them, I don't have the hair type for them, they make my hair look poor and so...less. So no, no layers for me, wait for the next customer, maybe she wants them.

Yes! And I notice we have the same hairtype! I was starting to doubt my four decades of knowing what's best for my own hair. :)

MrsGuther
September 25th, 2011, 08:02 PM
Wow...
"Some women think that if they keep their hair all one length the way it was in high school, everyone will think they’re still in high school. Guess what? You’re not. As you get older, you need to soften the lines around your face."

If I want to have my hair all one length that is my choice and does NOT mean that I am trying to look like I'm in high school... :(

sipnsun
September 25th, 2011, 08:29 PM
As a former cosmetologist, I have to disagree with the comment about layers. Not every hair type is meant for layering. My hair is very fine, thin and straight and looks horrible layered. I've been trying to grow layers out for years, but my hair grows so slow.

lizdini
September 25th, 2011, 08:50 PM
Really, she (or he) compared themselves to a dentist? I know hair dressers are trained professionals, but they're not doctors! Plus "just a trim" mean "little trim", and I wouldn't tell my dentist "its just a tooth", but I might hear him say "just a little cavity". Really this person seems overly sensitive!

UltraBella
September 25th, 2011, 09:10 PM
So no, no layers for me, wait for the next customer, maybe she wants them. If I had Ultrabella's hair I would want them too.

Lol, yes, give your layers to me, I want them !!

swearnsue
September 25th, 2011, 09:35 PM
I think we should all have free drinks that someone mentioned earlier. I'll have mine right now please.

MsBubbles
September 25th, 2011, 09:40 PM
I think we should all have free drinks that someone mentioned earlier. I'll have mine right now please.

Right. And I'm going to go get the :chocolate:

:)

long.hair.maybe
September 25th, 2011, 09:53 PM
I've always found hairdressers and librarians to be snobs (more often than not).

Those two articles make me feel pretty good about not going to get my hair done at a salon anymore.

I don't understand how people can spend $50+ on getting their hair cut. There's no value in it, in my opinion.

14. Do not attempt hairstylist-speak. Do you really know what “thinning” or “graduation” mean? Leave the terminology to the professionals.

This one made me laugh. As if what they do is sooo difficult to understand that only "professionals" can understand.


Also, they have to charge less for kids cuts, otherwise people wouldn't bother getting them done at all. They'd just cut their own kid's hair!

UltraBella
September 25th, 2011, 10:02 PM
I've always found hairdressers and librarians to be snobs (more often than not).

Those two articles make me feel pretty good about not going to get my hair done at a salon anymore.

I don't understand how people can spend $50+ on getting their hair cut. There's no value in it, in my opinion.

14. Do not attempt hairstylist-speak. Do you really know what “thinning” or “graduation” mean? Leave the terminology to the professionals.

This one made me laugh. As if what they do is sooo difficult to understand that only "professionals" can understand.

Also, they have to charge less for kids cuts, otherwise people wouldn't bother getting them done at all. They'd just cut their own kid's hair!

My haircut is DEFINITELY worth $50 bucks, my stylists spends 40 minutes just cutting my hair, let alone the time it takes to wash it, dry it and style it. Which is the part I love. I see a huge value in it, she works miracles with my hair.
At my salon, children's haircuts are the same price as a man's cut, they are not discounted.

long.hair.maybe
September 25th, 2011, 10:15 PM
My haircut is DEFINITELY worth $50 bucks, my stylists spends 40 minutes just cutting my hair, let alone the time it takes to wash it, dry it and style it. Which is the part I love. I see a huge value in it, she works miracles with my hair.
At my salon, children's haircuts are the same price as a man's cut, they are not discounted.

But you have beautiful hair already! It would look beautiful no matter who cut it and how much they charged, if anything. If you're saying you enjoy the experience of getting it cut, washed, styled, etc, then maybe that's worth paying for.

And the washing and drying isn't worth anything to me either. I can do that myself for free. And the styling lasts a day or two only, so unless it's for an event, I don't want to pay for something like that. I can think of other things I'd much rather spend $50-$200 on. Admittedly, I am a cheapo.


The man's price is already a discounted price. A man with long hair won't get charged the female rate, and vice versa. It's based on the assumption that a woman will pay more for her hair, not that it's a different service. I'd imagine the price of a man's cut relative to a woman's cut is getting higher, though, as men start to care more about their hair. A haircut is a service that has no inherent dollar value -- it's worth what people are willing to pay.

UltraBella
September 25th, 2011, 10:47 PM
But you have beautiful hair already! It would look beautiful no matter who cut it and how much they charged, if anything.

The man's price is already a discounted price. It's based on the assumption that a woman will pay more for her hair, not that it's a different service.

My hair looks so beautiful because it is cut exceptionally well, into a shape that gives it movement. My hair is heavy and coarse and looks utterly awful one length or with bad, choppy layers. It would not look beautiful no matter who cut it, because not all stylists have the talent or skill to deal with hair such as mine. The ability to transform my hair into what I want is valuable to me.

The assumption that a woman will pay more for her hair and that is why the price is higher is something that I have to disagree with. That is not the reason a man's cut cost less. It actually IS a different service in most cases.
Most men have their hair dampened with a mister instead of having it shampooed.
Most men's cuts are done at least partially with clippers, which is very simple, women's are not.
Men in general do not have their hair blown dry or styled. The majority of women do.
On average, a stylist can do 3+ men's cuts in the time it takes to do a woman's. If it's me in their chair, well, I tip incredibly well because I know they could have taken several appointments instead of my one.
If a member of LHC went to my stylist and only wanted a tiny trim, no shampooing, no drying, no styling, they would pay the smaller fee as well. However, that is FAR from the norm of what most women are requesting.

mora
September 25th, 2011, 11:10 PM
My hair looks so beautiful because it is cut exceptionally well, into a shape that gives it movement. My hair is heavy and coarse and looks utterly awful one length or with bad, choppy layers. It would not look beautiful no matter who cut it, because not all stylists have the talent or skill to deal with hair such as mine. The ability to transform my hair into what I want is valuable to me.

I definitely agree with this. I haven't personally had a $50+ (without tip) haircut but the first time I went on my own to a place near that range was probably the best haircut I've ever had. The stylist made very precise cuts and the resulting layering and shape were done very nicely. It was also the gentlest handling/touch I've ever felt and I never really thought that other hairdressers were rough.

My sister's hair is much straighter than mine and she usually never ends up with a really bad haircut no matter where she goes, but, especially when my hair was thicker, mine could end up very triangley without layers or just weird when the layers are done poorly. I know that bad cuts can still happen at expensive salons but it seems to decrease the odds a bit.

Also, I know that a lot of people here have had bad experiences with having more hair cut off than desired but at the same haircut I mentioned above, the stylist offered to cut less than what I asked for and asked if it was OK to use a hairdryer even though I hadn't suggested/mentioned anything about avoiding products and heat.

ETA: I do think that UltraBella's hair is beautiful anyways.

laughinglynxie
September 25th, 2011, 11:32 PM
This is just awful.
The blatant sexism is just mind-blowing. A woman talking about her problems is whiny and unwanted, but a man doing the same thing deserves sympathy because his wife obviously doesn't listen to him. Makes me feel ill!

Soo glad I'm not the only one that thought this exact same thing. I know the whole article was written in a snarky sort of way...but that doesn't excuse the fact that what is being said is extremely contradictory. I wasn't paying close attention, but was it really a woman that wrote it? I can't help but feel like I'm being betrayed! :confused:

juliaxena
September 25th, 2011, 11:40 PM
Lol, yes, give your layers to me, I want them !!

You have the most beautiful layers and the hair type for them. My hair does not look full enough even without layers sigh...

racrane
September 25th, 2011, 11:44 PM
I wish the hairstylists interviewed would not have been so snarky and such a critical tone. Much of what she said was true, but who wants to pay money to a snarky person? But I really agree with the children's cuts.

Rybe
September 26th, 2011, 01:16 AM
...I had a pixi cut in high school and layers in college. I guess I'm doing it wrong...? Not that I'm exactly old.

The tipping one struck me as weird too, until I realized this was probably a real salon. Not just Great Clips having a 6 dollar hair cut extravaganza... I really should just get my husband to cut my hair.

I think working in any customer service position can make a person want to choke many, many people they have to work with, but the snark really could have been toned down a bit. The not wanting to hear people complain thing blew my mind. Did the author not realize that's kind of a cultural stereotype? Kinda...seems like something one should be prepared for upon coming a hairstylist. Honestly I only know one barber well, and she'll talk your ear off and wants to know what everyone's doing at all times...

Athena's Owl
September 26th, 2011, 01:53 AM
The blatant sexism is just mind-blowing. A woman talking about her problems is whiny and unwanted, but a man doing the same thing deserves sympathy because his wife obviously doesn't listen to him. Makes me feel ill!

Yeah, I caught that too, and I disliked it.

Though to be fair I think unloading your problems on someone who *isn't* trained to solve those problems is rude. if you have money problems, hire a financial advisor or an accountant, pay them, and complain at THEM. they're paid to solve these sorts of things! why waste a perfectly good complaint on someone who can't do anything about it?

MinderMutsig
September 26th, 2011, 06:22 AM
Wow...
"Some women think that if they keep their hair all one length the way it was in high school, everyone will think they’re still in high school. Guess what? You’re not. As you get older, you need to soften the lines around your face."

If I want to have my hair all one length that is my choice and does NOT mean that I am trying to look like I'm in high school... :(

I know right?

I never had really long hair as a kid or teenager. I had it short, shoulder, APL, spikey, colored, extremely layered, I pretty much experimented with it as much as I wanted.

Now that I get older I'm growing it out because: 1. it's something I haven't tried before. 2. I think long hair looks great on older women. 3. I get to do elegant updo's which by the way I think are very age-appropriate for adult/older women. 4. Long hair and updo's (to me) are a lot more feminine and really soften up a look better than a short layered chop-job. 5. Grey hair is beautiful on it's own but long grey hair is just plain awesome. I still have to work on the grey part but I can at least make sure I have the length.

Unofficial_Rose
September 26th, 2011, 06:57 AM
Soo glad I'm not the only one that thought this exact same thing. I know the whole article was written in a snarky sort of way...but that doesn't excuse the fact that what is being said is extremely contradictory. I wasn't paying close attention, but was it really a woman that wrote it? I can't help but feel like I'm being betrayed! :confused:

I'm sure members of the public can be annoying, but I do get the impression that the writer of this piece despises her customers. And she does seem to be pretty misogynistic. :rolleyes: Perhaps she should work in a barbers seeing as other women are so awful. :p

Ishje
September 26th, 2011, 07:57 AM
I am glad I am not the only one that found this article rude and mean.


5. You represent me. So it’s in my best interest for you to look good.

this is a weird statement, it might be for her best interest for me to look good, but that does not mean that we both have the same idea's about that. right?

I never tip hairdressers, but that probably has to do with my culture, I think most people don't tip their hairdressers around here.

also, I think most of these things could be said by a hairstylist, if only they are said in a proper way.
for example her point about too round cheeks, she could just say in a nice way "I am not sure if that style will fit you" and suggest some other idea's.
she is the hairdresser, so why the heck is she annoyed at this?

UltraBella
September 26th, 2011, 08:10 AM
Just an FYI :

I get the Reader's Digest and every month they have an article like this. They are each a different quote by a different individual, and in the actual magazine it tells the initials of the person and where they are from. So, it's a collaboration of many stylists' pet peeves. It is not one person. The interviewer took each quote from a different stylist, asking them what bugs them the most and what they "wish" they could tell their clients. That is why it sounds so snarky.

kamikaze hair
September 26th, 2011, 08:20 AM
well i'm not too impressed by the tone of the statements but many of them i would agree make a fair amount of sense. I actually don't tip my hairdresser, but i think thats because here its not really a thing that is done, if i was a more regular customer with lots of money then yes, i would. Having said that, she charges me $100 and i think its worth every cent. I would pay more for how awesome i feel when i walk out of there, (strutting my stuff!). I would actually prefer if she charged the tip in the actual price, i totally think i'm ripping her off. Plus she's really nice, always makes me laugh while i'm there, asks about my family and life and listens to what i want.


Although one time, i did have a major hair disaster where i had to have an emergency hair session at 9am, the second the woman opened up (different hairdresser) who spent a good several hours gently teasing a hairbrush out of my hair because it got STUCK!!!, i spent 7-8hours trying to get the damn thing out, and it wouldn't budge. Eventually i gave up, went to her and got her to pretty much shred the brush, but save the hair. she did exactly that, quite patiently and was really great about it all. Needless to say i left her a generous tip for being my lifesaver. :D once again, worth every cent.

pepperminttea
September 26th, 2011, 09:55 AM
Working in retail, I do feel some of their pain, but reading this and the tone of it just makes me all the more glad that I self-trim. I hated "the salon experience" - the awkward empty small talk, the reckless and rough wet detangling, the unasked-for heat-styling, the cut that was always more than I specifically asked for - I don't miss it a bit; they can keep it, and I'll keep the cost to spend on hairtoys instead! :p

Medusa
September 26th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Working in retail, I do feel some of their pain, but reading this and the tone of it just makes me all the more glad that I self-trim. I hated "the salon experience" - the awkward empty small talk, the reckless and rough wet detangling, the unasked-for heat-styling, the cut that was always more than I specifically asked for - I don't miss it a bit; they can keep it, and I'll keep the cost to spend on hairtoys instead! :p

I sympathize with the awkward small talk. I'm reserved around people I don't know and sometimes even around people I do know. I detest talking simply for the sake of filling up silence. One of my biggest pet peeves is being in a retail or service environment and having the person talk to other employees about what they did last weekend, or how drunk they got at a party last night, or how much their bf/gf is a jerk, whatever. This happened the last time I got my hair cut. I tried out a new salon my aunt recommended, and it was fairly pricey for me. After a few minutes of small talk, the stylist started talking to the stylist next to her and continued for the next half hour. I find this rude and disrespectful.

As a caveat, I worked customer service/retail from the age of 16 until I was 29. I'm well aware that dealing with the public is not easy. I know that 9 times out of 10, asking someone how they are will result in a "fine" or "good", but that other 1 time will become a litany of health problems, family problems, political grievances, etc., and as a customer service person, you smile, nod your head, and thank the heavens you don't have to live with that person. I also know that customers appreciate good service, particularly when paying a premium (or at least better than bottom of the barrel) rate for it. I appreciate good service, and I take my business elsewhere when I receive poor service.

/off soapbox now

Rosetta
September 26th, 2011, 11:09 AM
What a rude, mean, snotty article - this just confirms all the more why I don't go to hairdressers at all. Even if it doesn't represent any particular hairdresser's personal views, I can well believe that this is the way they (or most of them) actually do think... :shudders:

ETA: The "Layers are the magic remedy" part actually made me almost giggle, it's so far from the truth... :)


I hated "the salon experience" - the awkward empty small talk, the reckless and rough wet detangling, the unasked-for heat-styling, the cut that was always more than I specifically asked for - I don't miss it a bit; they can keep it
You took the words out of my mouth :p Completely agree!

melmmo
September 26th, 2011, 11:10 AM
15. Some people are just too large or their cheeks too round for the style they want. They should look at themselves in the mirror sometime.

While the whole article was snarky, this one was uncalled for. I'm well aware that I'm "large" and my face is rounded, believe me I know. I look in the mirror all the time and I already have a complex about my size, thankyouverymuch. This makes me never want to go to a salon again!

Re: the layers one, I actually had the reverse happen before - I had a stylist refuse to cut layers into my hair, and was rude about it too. Needless to say, I stiffed her on the tip and never went back there again. The salon was trying to be hip and stylish (read: snooty), layers must have been "out" that week.

adiapalic
September 26th, 2011, 03:09 PM
This is just awful.





The blatant sexism is just mind-blowing. A woman talking about her problems is whiny and unwanted, but a man doing the same thing deserves sympathy because his wife obviously doesn't listen to him. Makes me feel ill!

I agree. It is sexism.

"15. Some people are just too large or their cheeks too round for the style they want. They should look at themselves in the mirror sometime."

I get it. Certain styles don't flatter them. But this one just plain made me sick. As though fat people are oblivious to their size. That "you should look in the mirror" line is just wonderful. Translation: "Don't you see that you're fat and unappealing?"

UltraBella
September 26th, 2011, 03:26 PM
Even if it doesn't represent any particular hairdresser's personal views, I can well believe that this is the way they (or most of them) actually do think... :shudders:


The large majority of hairdressers do not feel this way at all. I am sorry you believe that most do, but it really isn't true at all. You will find every personality you can think of in this industry and there is no "most of them". That's like saying most women with long hair (insert generalization here). It just doesn't apply.

gretchen_hair
September 26th, 2011, 04:22 PM
I agree, in any given situation you will find all kinds of people with differing attitudes.

There is no telling how many people this writer got their quotes from or if they were all in a salon/room together how snarky they became because they thought they were being funny.

I have never come across any hairdresser who had that attitude (or that showed it if they did), so who knows where they interviewed those particular hairdressers from.



The large majority of hairdressers do not feel this way at all. I am sorry you believe that most do, but it really isn't true at all. You will find every personality you can think of in this industry and there is no "most of them". That's like saying most women with long hair (insert generalization here). It just doesn't apply.

neko_kawaii
September 26th, 2011, 05:15 PM
As far as tipping in the US goes, I hope non-tippers are aware of their local "tipped" minimum wage and who it applies to, which in many states is lower than regular minimum wage. I was making 2.27$ an hour waiting tables in 2003. Thank goodness for the people who tip!

wooliswonderful
September 26th, 2011, 05:28 PM
Oh God I quit reading at # 5 (layers). Please. Yeah I want all-one-length layers so people can think I'm still in high school...:rolleyes:.
I have long layers and when we went to register our 6th grade daughter for school the principal mistook me for her. For several minutes of conversation. It was awesome. :D