Hair problems - help fix me!

[NaturalMommy]

Hi girls,

This is my first post. So I have some hair problems that are really starting to bother me.

1. hair is thinning (mostly on top) not noticeable...but very thin and getting bad.

2. Very oily. I wash in the morning and by the end of the day it's so oily I have to put it in a pony tail.

3. slow growth

4. Top of scalp is red and tender.

5. Strands are limp and blaaa.

6. I have always had naturally fine hair, but something is going on.

I was with a natural shampoo (aubrey organics) and use conditioner only on the ends.

I do coconut oil treatments once a week to my scalp and hair. Mostly healthy diet of real food, nothing processed.

Ok, thx!

[NaturalMommy]

And also, I don't have a lot of hair falling out. Only a normal amount comes out when I brush and during the day.

[GoatLady]

I've got similar issues and am still trying to get it sorted out. May I ask your age? I am 52 and have hair that is starting to thin. I think it's an age thing. Have you tried stretching your washes to help your scalp learn to not produce so much oil? I used to have to wash every day but now only every 3rd day. My scalp is very sensitive and had bad reations to so many shampoos I lost count. Since I have switched to EveryDay Shea things are going much better. You might also want to visit a doctor in case you have a medical condition that's causing your hair troubles.

[Madora]

By all means, see a trichologist (hair doctor) and find out what is causing your scalp issues. It might be your scalp is rebelling at the products you're using.

[MychelleC]

First of all, ditch the Aubrey Organics shampoo. They use decyl glucoside as the only surfactant, which has a very high ph. They are bringing down the ph with the inclusion of citric acid, but this is too much for your tender scalp! Also, the rosemary, peppermint, and other extracts can be highly irritating to a sensitive scalp. Irritation leads to a scalp that produces more oil as protection, which is part of your oily by the end of the day problem. There are a lot of gentle shampoos on the market. L'Oreal EverPure is a nice one, and you might consider Mustela Baby Shampoo as it is very gentle and your hair is so fine. I would wash every other day, and just condition in between if you feel your hair is too greasy not to wet.

I agree that you want to see a doctor about your scalp issues. Hair loss/thinning and red scalp can be allergies, hormones, stress, illness, aging, etc. Be careful with updos and too much manipulation. Just wash, condition, air dry and leave your pretty hair alone for awhile. HTH!

[MychelleC]

I didn't even see that the Aubrey Organics shampoo contains alcohol!! Not the happy fatty alcohol (cetyl, cetearyl, etc) but the mean drying kind. This company has been cited by the FDA several times for improper ingredient listing, and I suspect that their shampoos are mislabeled as well. They appear to be using the alcohol as a preservative or fixative for the myriad fragrances. In order for it to be effective as a preservative it has to be used in 20-30% concentrations - ouch and burn! I hope it isn't in that concentration, but regardless the inclusion of alcohol in any concentration is an indisputable irritant. I would stop using this brand on your tender scalp yesterday. I think that will help a lot right away!

[spidermom]

With an oily scalp, I wouldn't use coconut oil on it. By the way - could you have a coconut oil allergy? My daughter does, and most products irritate her scalp because most of them contain a coconut oil derivative of some sort.

Try diluting your shampoo in warm water. I use an empty conditioner bottle for this, about 1/4 to 1/2 cup warm water (I don't measure) with one dollop of shampoo, shake well, squirt all over scalp. If you have a shower comb with blunt tines, try combing over your scalp with that while washing your hair. You don't have to worry about washing the length. When you rinse and the suds run through your length, that will be cleansing enough.

Also, if you usually wash from the top, try bending forward and washing from the nape instead. I switch it up but really like applying conditioner when I'm bent foward because I can get more conditioner on my canopy without getting any on my scalp. My scalp is oily enough all by itself, but I can go 3 days between washings.

A ponytail can be very damaging, especially if you pull it tight. Try to learn one or two options, going for something that won't pull too much.

[NaturalMommy]

Wow didn't know that about aubrey organics. After I just bought 2 bottles of shampoo yesterday, lol. I also have California baby sensitive shampoo I will have to try. I have been using the aubrey for about two years now.

What about build up? How do you know if that is an issue?

I'm 30, btw.

[longhairedlady]

I am thinking the red irritated scalp is caused by something you are putting on it.

[spidermom]

Have you got a way to test the pH of the baby shampoo? Baby shampoo is usually slightly alkaline so that it won't burn the eyes, but scalp prefers something slightly acidic. I think you can buy shampoos that are formulated for a sensitive scalp.

Buildup isn't usually a problem if you aren't using silicone problems, although oils and conditioners can build up too, but it takes a long time. I use a coney serum about once a week plus coconut oil and conditioners, and I need to clarify about once every 4 months, which I do by using my regular shampoo but taking the suds all the way to the ends.

[MychelleC]

Wow didn't know that about aubrey organics. After I just bought 2 bottles of shampoo yesterday, lol. I also have California baby sensitive shampoo I will have to try. I have been using the aubrey for about two years now.

What about build up? How do you know if that is an issue?

I'm 30, btw.

The California Baby is a better option. It is using decyl polyglucose as it's only surfactant. I prefer to see a combination of surfactants as this reduces the potential for irritation, but this one is considered gentle and conditioning. It might not be cleansing enough for most hair types, but as you have fine hair and if you don't use a lot of styling aids it might work really well for you. It might be too conditioning, but better than too drying and iritating. Johnson and Johnson Naturals foaming baby shampoo is also very nice - great combo of surfactants and mildness-increasing ingredients.

Build up is really only an issue if you are using a lot of styling products or conditioners with a lot of oils/butters in them. Silicones and cationic ingredients in conditioner (because it is rinsed off) are not as big a contributor to build up as the oils/butters, and the silicones, waxes, and polymers used in styling aids. I would avoid too many styling aids until your scalp begins to feel relief. The Aubrey shampoo does contain shea butter and jojoba oils, which would be too much for an oily scalp (what a mess of a shampoo!).

I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all, I am just passionate about chemistry. I hope this helps you!

[NaturalMommy]

Thanks for the tips everyone.

So what about this shampoo? I also have this which I have not used yet.

Earth Science Sensitive Shampoo (http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-30981-earth-science-pure-essentials-shampoo-gallon-fragrance-free-128-oz?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=fpl&utm_term=EarthSciencePureEssentialsShampooGallonFr agranceFree128oz&utm_content=83157&utm_campaign=googlebase&site=google_product_listing_ads&adtype=pla&kw=%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=CKCjs7u8rKsCFSkBQAodr1Jo7A&)

Should I condition my scalp once a week with an oil still? Like coconut oil. I'm not sensitive to them.

Has anyone heard of Scalp Clenz (http://www.taoofherbs.com/products/3023/NorthAmericanHerbSpice/ScalpClenz.htm)? I aslo have this and have used it a few times w/ no side effects.

Yeah so I just washed my hair w/ the aubrey organics shampoo, and my scalp feels very very irritated and dry right now. :(

[MychelleC]

The Earth Science Shampoo uses Sodium Myreth Sulfate as the primary cleanser, which can be an irritant. An even better option would be from the Jason Naturals line. Their Thin to Thick shampoo uses Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, and Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate as well as a betaine - these are very mild, wonderful surfactants that are gentle and impart softness. This also has glycerin and high molecular weight proteins (wheat) that are great for fine hair. Their Natural Biotin Shampoo is also very nice, though quite a bit more conditioning with the inclusion of silicones and cationic guar gum. Either of these would be great choices and still in the "natural" arena. (Don't get me started on "natural" products! :) These do contain extracts, but nothing particularly irritating like peppermint or rosemary. Here is the link to the Jason products:

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-17257-jason-natural-products-thin-to-thick-hair-thickening-shampoo-8-oz?green=f8847a03-9857-4c76-9198-13d9478eedbe&

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-17646-jason-natural-products-natural-biotin-shampoo-hair-fortifying-16-oz?green=f8847a03-9857-4c76-9198-13d9478eedbe&

I would personally avoid the Scalp Clenz if redness and irritation is an issue. Oregano and Rosemary oils are highly irritating, and keep in mind that irritation is cumulative. It might not burn at the moment but you can still do damage on a cellular level that will show up as itching, redness, etc. Hair growth really can't be stimulated by topical ingredients (other than minoxidil) and irritation will slow down the growth process even more. Until your scalp heals I would avoid anything heavy on the essential oils as well as clarifying products. Your scalp needs very gentle surfactants and conditioners. I would continue with the oil treatments once a week or every other week. Try olive oil instead of coconut - coconut can penetrate the hair shaft, but your scalp might appreciate all of the lovely linoleic acid olive oil has to offer.

:)

[GRU]

First of all, ditch the Aubrey Organics shampoo. They use decyl glucoside as the only surfactant, which has a very high ph. They are bringing down the ph with the inclusion of citric acid, but this is too much for your tender scalp! Also, the rosemary, peppermint, and other extracts can be highly irritating to a sensitive scalp. Irritation leads to a scalp that produces more oil as protection, which is part of your oily by the end of the day problem. There are a lot of gentle shampoos on the market. L'Oreal EverPure is a nice one, and you might consider Mustela Baby Shampoo as it is very gentle and your hair is so fine. I would wash every other day, and just condition in between if you feel your hair is too greasy not to wet.

Source? :rolleyes:





I didn't even see that the Aubrey Organics shampoo contains alcohol!! Not the happy fatty alcohol (cetyl, cetearyl, etc) but the mean drying kind. This company has been cited by the FDA several times for improper ingredient listing, and I suspect that their shampoos are mislabeled as well. They appear to be using the alcohol as a preservative or fixative for the myriad fragrances. In order for it to be effective as a preservative it has to be used in 20-30% concentrations - ouch and burn! I hope it isn't in that concentration, but regardless the inclusion of alcohol in any concentration is an indisputable irritant. I would stop using this brand on your tender scalp yesterday. I think that will help a lot right away!

Source? :rolleyes:



Honeysuckle Rose Shampoo (http://www.drugstore.com/aubrey-organics-honeysuckle-rose-moisturizing-shampoo-dry-brittle/qxp162848?catid=47490):
Water (Aqua), Coconut Oil (Corn Oil Soap), Hydrolyzed Soy Protein (Made from Organic, non-GMO Soybeans), Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Juice, Carrageenan (Red Seaweed), Honeysuckle Oil, Rosa Mosqueta Rose Hip Seed Oil (Organic), Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Extract, Hops, Balm Mint (Melissa Officinalis) Extract, Mistletoe (Viscum Album), Chamomila Recuita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Yarrow, Ginkgo, Ginseng (Panax Ginseng), Angelica, Chrysanthemum, Magnolia, Horsetail, Coltsfoot and Forsythia, Vegetable Glycerin, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Linoleic Acid (Vitamin F), Vitamin E, Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Oil, Macadamia Ternifolia (Nut) Oil, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Oil (Organic), Sage (Salvia Officinalis) Oil (Organic), Aubrey's Preservative (Citrus Seed Extract, Vitamin A, C, E)


Odd, but I don't see any of the so-called evil decyl glucoside OR any kind of alcohol. :rolleyes:





The California Baby is a better option. It is using decyl polyglucose as it's only surfactant. I prefer to see a combination of surfactants as this reduces the potential for irritation, but this one is considered gentle and conditioning. It might not be cleansing enough for most hair types, but as you have fine hair and if you don't use a lot of styling aids it might work really well for you. It might be too conditioning, but better than too drying and iritating. Johnson and Johnson Naturals foaming baby shampoo is also very nice - great combo of surfactants and mildness-increasing ingredients.

Is that so? Odd, because that product contains The Evil Decyl Glucoside as its primary surfactant! :blueeek:


Johnson's Natural Head-to-Toe Foaming Baby Wash (http://www.drugstore.com/johnsons-natural-head-to-toe-foaming-baby-wash/qxp269374?catid=182486)
Water, Decyl Glucoside, Polyglyceryl 10, Polyglyceryl 3 Laurate, Coco Glucoside, Coco Glucosidem Glyceryl Oleate, Sodium Benzoate, Cetyl Hydoxyethylcellulose, Xanthan Gum , Fragrance, Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide






Build up is really only an issue if you are using a lot of styling products or conditioners with a lot of oils/butters in them.

Oh really? Source?


Silicones and cationic ingredients in conditioner (because it is rinsed off) are not as big a contributor to build up as the oils/butters, and the silicones, waxes, and polymers used in styling aids.

Oh really? Source?

I fail to comprehend how oils/butters that are rinsed off are "teh debil" that will build up, but products that are chemically formulated to bond to the hair shaft don't build up because they will "rinse off".

I'm particularly confused because this is the polar opposite of what happens with the vast majority of the members of this community.





The Aubrey shampoo does contain shea butter and jojoba oils, which would be too much for an oily scalp (what a mess of a shampoo!).

Source that these are evil? Vast numbers of LHCers use these products without any sort of problems.





The Earth Science Shampoo uses Sodium Myreth Sulfate as the primary cleanser, which can be an irritant. An even better option would be from the Jason Naturals line. Their Thin to Thick shampoo uses Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, and Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate as well as a betaine - these are very mild, wonderful surfactants that are gentle and impart softness. This also has glycerin and high molecular weight proteins (wheat) that are great for fine hair.

But that shampoo also has The Evil Decyl Glucoside.... :blueeek: (along with an alarmingly long and chemical-sounding list of ingredients for a gentle, natural product!)


Jason Natural Cosmetics Shampoo, Thin-To-Thick (http://www.drugstore.com/jason-natural-cosmetics-shampoo-thin-to-thick-hair-and-scalp-therapy/qxp45909):
Hawaiian Sea Kelp (Algae Extract), Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Soft Water (Purified), Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Gel, Decyl Glucoside, Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Lecithin, Soyamide MEA, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Lauramide MEA, PEG 150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Glycol Stearate, Calendula (Calendula Officinalis) Flower Extract, Isostearamidopropyl Morpholine Lactate, Comfrey (Symphytum Officinale) Leaf Extract, Polysorbate 20, Ginseng (Panax Ginseng) Extract, Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B), Inositol, Steardimonium Panthenol, Biotin (Vitamin H), Panthenol 3, Folic Acid (Folate) Vitamin B12, Yucca (Yucca Schidigera) Extract, Benzophenone 3 (UV), Horsetail Extract (Organic Silica), Hydroxypropylmethylcellulose, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Wheat Oligosaccharides, Vitamin C (Ester C), Phyto-Complex of the Following:, Juniper, Cypress (Cupressus Sempervirens), Yarrow, Nettle (Urtica Dioica), Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender), Burdock Root (Arctium Lappa), Ivy, Sage (Salvia Officinalis), Hops, Skullcap, Vitamin E, Niacinamide, Lactic Acid (Alpha Hydroxy Acids), Mixed Fruit Acids (Alpha Hydroxy Acids), Methylparaben, Salicylic Acid (Beta Hydroxy Acids), Propylparaben, Soy Protein, Citric Acid (pH Balancing), Hydrolyzed Glycosaminoglycans (22 Amino Acid Complex), Essential Oil, Fragrance





I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all, I am just passionate about chemistry. I hope this helps you!

No worries, you don't sound like a know-it-all to me in the least.....

[MandyBeth]

Ok, to start with, SOMETHING is irritating your scalp. Get to your derm to figure out what. Could be the coconut oil, which would explain why AO is causing a problem.

I can't use jojoba oil, gives me scalp breakouts. But shea butter is fine.

Some oils build up - for me, the worst being sunflower oil. However, most are really not a problem, unless it's got a high protein level (avocodo for me). Also, using CONDITIONER to remove oil works fine. May take a few rounds, but yes, it will work eventually.

Cones build up. It's the nature of them. It's why they are in the "split end repair" products, they glue the splits together. But you will eventually have to clarify with them. Redken Clear Moisture has cones, but they wash mostly clean. But I do clarify every 3 months or so, and my hair does better for it. So I may not be getting massive build up, but it's enough that if I didn't clarify, it'd get to the tangley problem area.

[Cassie 123]

GRU, you are influential here on LHC because you are intelligent, you often write with charisma, and you have truly thudworthy hair. That is why it pains me to see you attack newer members who attempt to discuss cosmetics ingredients.

Clearly, MychelleC looked at the ingredients of a different AO shampoo and generalized from there, which was a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes. It is fine to respectfully correct mistakes, or simply to say, "I disagree" and then state what you believe to be the truth. But there is no need for the eye rolling or the snarky tone of your post.

MychelleC, I hope you do not take offense. We are all here to learn from each other.

[GRU]

IMO, if someone wishes to write with authority, they need to back that up.

Repeatedly giving out advice that you pulled out of your arse that is blatantly wrong (this isn't the only thread with posts like these, mind you) and projecting oneself as having specific knowledge in that regard means that you're putting yourself up for scrutiny.

For example, I don't have fine hair or straight hair, so when I give advice to someone with that hair type, I qualify it with something like, "other fineys have found __________" or "the thing I see mentioned here the most for Type 1 folks is __________".

Putting forth "fact" after "fact" after "fact" and portraying oneself as being knowledgeable means that you have to be able to back up your facts. If someone's not confident of the accuracy of their information (in life in general, not just at LHC), they should either qualify their comments, verify the accuracy of their comments, or hold their tongue.

Humility goes a long way in life.... IMHO. ;)

[Mairéad]

I kind of agree with GRU. I'm alright with people making honest mistakes, especially if they own up to them. But if you talk a big game you need to source. When you write any sort of educational/informational document any institution or skeptical reader is going to want proof by citation.

If I were in OP's position I would see a trichologist and avoid washing as much as possible until the scalp has healed and can actually handle being washed. That's just me though. I'd have more leeway since I still have short hair. I'd just get really cozy with some head coverings until my head was happy again. If my scalp was inflamed to high heck and sore than I'm certainly not thinking of putting any shampoo up there for awhile.

[MandyBeth]

I'm a finey with thinning hair, the fun of being post-spay.

Most of the "natural" products have something or another that will annoy the crap out of my scalp. VERY easy to do. ALS does also. Shampoo bars either don't clean my scalp or irritate it. Soap nuts is a major allergic reactions. Your scalp is not my scalp. You need to wade through the ingredients to see what works for you.

The other issue is if you are stripping ALL the oil off your hair/scalp, it's going to riot and produce MORE oil to try to replace what was stripped. Which then gives you greasy hair.

So to start with - call your derm and get an appointment.

Next - how to fix excessive oil production. Stop washing your hair so often. It's going to look a mess for a while. Your scalp will remember to stop producing excess oil if you stop stripping it off.

Then - how to fix your fine, limp hair. Clarify it, then follow Kirin's article to see what your hair needs. My hair behaves abnormally and never wants protein, so I can't advice to what your hair needs. Your hair is limp and blah because it's got build-up going on.

[starlamelissa]

IMO, if someone wishes to write with authority, they need to back that up.

Repeatedly giving out advice that you pulled out of your arse that is blatantly wrong (this isn't the only thread with posts like these, mind you) and projecting oneself as having specific knowledge in that regard means that you're putting yourself up for scrutiny.

For example, I don't have fine hair or straight hair, so when I give advice to someone with that hair type, I qualify it with something like, "other fineys have found __________" or "the thing I see mentioned here the most for Type 1 folks is __________".

Putting forth "fact" after "fact" after "fact" and portraying oneself as being knowledgeable means that you have to be able to back up your facts. If someone's not confident of the accuracy of their information (in life in general, not just at LHC),
they should either qualify their comments, verify the accuracy of their comments, or
hold their tongue.

Humility goes a long way in life.... IMHO. ;)

Can I just say, I love you? Lol! Science before opinion!

I love decylglucoside. It gently cleans my hair and leaves my scalp in good shape. And one doesn't need an expensive product like California baby, Disney baby naturals is about 4 bucks in the baby department at walmart, and baby aquaphor wash is about 5 at target, found with the eucerin, nivea, and aquaphor cream. Also both products are fragrance free.

But with major scalp issues, redness, and loosing hair, I would ask a doctor about some sort of scalp condition before I bought new shampoos and butters.

My husband has dermatitis on his scalp, and the doctors advice and products work the best for clearing up a flareup. Daily care is best handled by a harsh dandruff shampoo, and frequent washing of his hair brush and comb.

[BelleBot]

I'm wondering if you've tried using conditioner on your scalp. It may well help calm it down and also slow down the oil production. A lot of members here find that going conditioner only (CO) helps cut down on grease production and irritated scalps. I know I certainly did. I takes a couple of weeks to fully transition.
Of course it doesn't work for everyone but it may be worth looking in to. :)