Lots of hair troubles.

[Savvyhorsez]

Thank you in advance to all who read this, I just simply don't know what to do, and any help is greatly appreciated.

Dear my fellow hair growers,
I have issues with split dry ends, but the real trouble is my scalp. I have dandruff, use dandruff shampoo along with Ion hard water shampoo for the rest of my hair, but it only works for a day, and sometimes even less than a day. The worst dandruff is from my ears forward, big flakes, just horrible, and then after I've gotten the flakes all out, my hair is oily once again! I've noticed that my hair is really really thin there. I figure it's because I'm wearing my hair too tight which is a common cause, but could it be because of the dandruff as well? But if it's because I'm wearing my updos too tight, what do I do? I've tried separating my thin crown area, putting the rest into a bun, then wrapping the crown ends loosely which didn't work, it just drove me insane, so I tried braiding which felt tighter, even though it was loose, it felt as though it was still pulling, and I was having those wispy ends that get tangled so easily, and I don't think it would be a good idea for that, so I'm wearing my hair loose now which I'm not used to, even though it feels nice to feel the length reach so low, I'm afraid that keeping it down might damage it further as it tangles easily and invariably I get it caught in many things, and forget about doing barn chores with loose hair! o_O So any loose crown hair styles that anyone knows that could suggest for a person who can't do many complicated hair styles would be fabulous as well! On a side note, my hair hasn't grown in over a month, and today I've just applied some Ion Moisture Solutions leave in conditioner. I have done coconut and jojoba?? oil mixture in the past, for my ends but I haven't done that in a little while, but I hadn't seen much difference from when I've used it, and when I've not been using it.

Sincerely, dry split ended, dandruff oily head.

Update!

I sadly haven't found anything yet that will help, I've tried a couple of different shampoos, one recommended by a supposed "hair expert" that I didn't trust, but I was forced to buy what she said to, (My Mother thought she was the greatest and knew everything even though my attempts to explain to her why it wouldn't work.) but it smells really nice, it had a minty tea tree oil smell, but it didn't do anything for my dandruff. Fine, so I bought what I thought would be best, and the lady lady checked me out, and she was either too embarrassed to admit that she was wrong, or she didn't recognize me that she ignored me, but anyway, I've been using the Ion col tar dandruff shampoo, and it works until a day, but sometimes a number of hours later when my hair has been dry, it really dries up, creates flakes, makes my scalp itch, then I get the oily head look with this awful dandruff. I have very hard water, and when I wash my face, my skin cracks it's so dry, so I use a cream, but I don't want to go around with an oily looking head of hair! So onward I go! I heard from someone to use cucumber oil on one's head for itchy scalp, so I think that's where I'm heading to next. Oh, just wanted to mention about the hair thinning on the crown of my head, it's also not going well, I can't seem to take the time to do such involved hair dos every day when my schedule is so crammed, but I'm trying to do updos with less pressure from the crown of my head. Just wanted to give you all an update!

Thanks!

[Sundial]

Have you consulted a dermatologist yet? It could be an issue with your scalp and not so much the products you are/are not using. I suggest having it checked out soon.

I had tiny white flakes which I thought was dandruff, but after I consulted a dermatologist I was told it's eczema and that was easily solved by changing my hair products.

[Madora]

Could you try a braided bun on top of your head:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=6554&pictureid=104112

This is how I wear my hair at night (and during the day sometimes).

I bend at the waist and bring all hair in front of me, detangle thoroughly, then divide the hair in 3 sections and braid loosely 3/4ths of the way down. The braid is then coiled on top of my head (held in place with 8 3 inch crimped hairpins). The ends are tucked under the braid.

Perhaps you might arrange a consultation with a trichologist?

Your hair is inspiring. Good luck!

[spidermom]

Do you apply conditioner to your length before you wash your scalp? That helps protect my hair from drying out; coconut oil also.

Have you tried other products for control of dandruff? You might need a different medication than the one in your current dandruff shampoo. Seeing a doctor would be the best course of action.

As for styles, one thing I've been doing lately is forming big pin-curls or rolls near my face, then bunning the rest. See YouTube for 1940s styles.

Oh, and last but not least, do you get trims? When my ends get too splitty and dry, I trim them off.

[pepperminttea]

Are you sure it's dandruff? It'd be worth checking with a doctor to make sure it's nothing more serious (hopefully not!).

For the hairstyles, what about trying crown braid (or similar) styles to distribute the weight more evenly? Torrin's hair taping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqbAdvL8kME) looks beautiful, and with your length I bet you could do it with a single braid rather than two. :)

[Anje]

Echoing the "are you sure it's dandruff?" questions. I can't help thinking that you might have dry skin, or might have seborrheic dermatitis instead. Presumably, if you had dandruff, the dandruff shampoo would have fixed it, right?

For what it's worth, when my scalp gets dry, it flakes and produces gobs of oil. Washing with gentler, more moisturizing methods like CO fixes this for me, and allows me to wash once or twice a week instead of daily.

[Savvyhorsez]

Thank you all so much for such quick replies!

I've not been to any type of person doctor or specialist in many years and I don't plan to, but if it comes to that point.....:( But I do think it's just a severe case of dandruff

I've read at olive oil helps in the matter? Anyone have any experience with that? I know, adding oil to my already oily head doesn't sound like the greatest idea in my mind, but I'd try it.

Thanks for all the updo suggestions! I have just tried the Madora braided head bun, that didn't last. Lol. I've only just done a crown braid once. On my Mother's head. I don't know if I could do that on my own head, I got lucky, and it turned out for her!:cheese: I'll have to give it a serious try and get back to you. :)

Thank You!

[MychelleC]

Okay, first we need to make sure you actually have dandruff. Dandruff is a fungal condition that produces oily clumps as opposed to big flakes. It is best treated with a pyrithione zinc shampoo, coal tar in severe cases (though this can cause problems of its own with the drying and the smell). Dandruff is itchy, but the flaking will come off under your nails or stick to your hair as opposed to falling onto your shoulders. (I am aware of the misleading marketing campaign that shows the black shirt/shoulders thing - pyrithione zinc is used to treat a variety of scalp issues though there are better options for non-dandruff conditions). Dandruff also usually occurs in the oiliest parts of the scalp, such as the crown. If this is dandruff you need to cleanse with a gentle dandruff shampoo every other day or so (not too often but definitely several times a week) and condition from the ears down only. Also, make sure you are getting the scalp completely dry after every wash. Air-drying the ends is fine, but moisture makes a great breeding ground for the fungus, so blow drying the scalp (gently) will help a lot. Be aware of perfumes, a carbohydrate heavy diet (can exacerbate fungal conditions) and your laundry soap.

What you are describing actually sounds like dermatitis, or scalp irritation. The itching with the big flakes on the ears combined with the hair loss sounds like irritated scalp as opposed to fungus. If you are itching/picking at/brushing out the flakes then your scalp is producing more oil as a protective layer. In this case I would treat your scalp like I did my baby mans cradle cap: gently massage in slightly warmed olive oil directly into your scalp with the pads of your fingers - not the nails! Allow the oil to sit on your scalp 15-30 minutes, then very gently take a fine tooth comb to your flaky areas and very gently comb out any flakes. Have I said very gently enough times yet? Very gently. :) Wash out the oil with a gentle sulfate-free shampoo and condition from the ears down. The oil might not all wash out the first time and that is okay; wear your hair back and let a day go by between washing. Repeat this process once or twice a week until the issue is under control, then every week or two to maintain. Look for a simple shampoo that is not too drying, but beware conditioner only washing - your scalp is producing protective oils which can trap those flakes. I hope this helps you. I have had dandruff my whole life so I feel for you!

Lastly, wearing your hair too tight will definitely lead to trouble. scalp pressure, hair loss, breakage. It's tough because all of this gorgeous hair is so heavy! Vary the way you wear your hair and if you feel pulling on your scalp take it down. If you have tried both of these courses of action for at least a month each and are still having problems then a dermatologist is the way to go.

[Savvyhorsez]

Thank you so very much for your information MychelleC! I think I have made the irritation to my scalp to get such big flakes as I can't stop after I've felt it, I feel as though I have to get it all out.:trainwreck::oops: Plus it's my fault for my hair loss as well I guess, I've gotten so used to putting it up into a tight wrap bun everyday, it's so easy, and stays up all day. I'll certainly give this new information a try! I cannot thank everyone enough! Such great support here on the LHC, I love it! Thank You!

[bunzfan]

Thank you so very much for your information MychelleC! I think I have made the irritation to my scalp to get such big flakes as I can't stop after I've felt it, I feel as though I have to get it all out.:trainwreck::oops: Plus it's my fault for my hair loss as well I guess, I've gotten so used to putting it up into a tight wrap bun everyday, it's so easy, and stays up all day. I'll certainly give this new information a try! I cannot thank everyone enough! Such great support here on the LHC, I love it! Thank You!

No advice but i wanted to say i sympathise totally when younger i had really bad scalp dermatitis, it could be embarrassing when bushing my hair.

[Savvyhorsez]

Thanks Bunzfan.:)

[FrozenBritannia]

I've read at olive oil helps in the matter? Anyone have any experience with that? I know, adding oil to my already oily head doesn't sound like the greatest idea in my mind, but I'd try it.



I hope you do try it, as the only thing that will remove oil is oil.. Sounds counter-intuitive I know, but remember the oil and water trick? The two never mix. So by cleansing the oil on your scalp with olive oil, you get rid of it.. The olive oil is then easier to wash out with shampoo or conditioner, because its more topical.

[Elle]

I don't know if this is exactly the same, but I had a very similar problem - dandruff and oily hair. One day I noticed that I had dry, reddish flaky patches on the sides of my nose and decided to go to the doctor. That's when I was diagnosed with Seborrhoeic dermatitis. It's a very common skin disorder that can affect the scalp, face and torso. The doctor asked if I had any problems with my scalp and I told her about my dandruff issues and my scalp's inability to handle any oils and moisturizing shampoos and conditioners.

I always thought that dandruff was due to a dry scalp, but found out that in my case it's because the oil glands are overproducing. It all made sense because I tried tons of ultra-moisturizing shampoos and oils on my scalp, but every single time it made my scalp problem worse. After using oils and moisturizing-type shampoos and conditioners on my scalp I started noticing scabs appearing.

So, although they say there isn't a cure for this problem, it does seem to be under control as long as I wash my hair regularly (I scalp wash every other day) with some type of dandruff shampoo and keep conditioner away from my scalp. When I full wash I only apply conditioner from about chin length down to the ends.

[Savvyhorsez]

Thank you all very much! Very interesting story Elle, yesterday I had put the conditioner on my hair, including the scalp, and I showered in the evening, and I see that this morning that the whole top of my head is almost greasy like, probably too much conditioner on top, and I didn't shampoo it out good enough. Indeed interesting!

[annieangel149]

If its dandruff you have i have heard that apple cider vinegar helps!

[Savvyhorsez]

If its dandruff you have i have heard that apple cider vinegar helps!

I've heard that too, I just can't stand the smell of any kind of vinegar.:)

[Elle]

I can't stand the smell of ACV either. As much as I've tried using it on my hair, no matter how much I rinse I always end up walking around smelling like a salad. Blech! :lol:

[FrozenBritannia]

I've heard that too, I just can't stand the smell of any kind of vinegar.:)
Thats why I use white vinegar and dilute it and rinse it out right away :shrug:. I won't even allow apple cider vinegar in my house I dislike the smell of it so much. *shudder*

[GlassWidow]

I would recommend ditching the dandruff shampoo, too. I used to post on a psoriasis forum, and nearly everyone who had problems with their scalp turned out to be using dandruff shampoo. It can be very harsh and drying, and what your scalp needs is some TLC. I always suggest going sulfate free when someone has a problem such as yours. I get terrible outbreaks on my hands when I use dish soap, which is heavy on the sulfates, and one day it dawned on me (pun not intended) that my scalp was in such terrible condition because I was using shampoos with sulfates. It seems I was right, since my head is a lot happier these days.

Good luck - I hope you find a solution soon!

[longhairedlady]

As far as the ends go I would saturate the length with EVOO and leave in for as long as you can. Before I started using it my ends were the same way. Now I fully saturate with oil the day before I wash it and always if it is gonna be wet. My ends are now smooth and more importantly tangle free!

Also my sister had what she thought was dandruff, but it turned out she actually had a very dry scalp and it was over producing the oil to try and compensate. I am not sure if thats the situation with you but it could be. It sounds very similar to her problem. She also had flakes, red patches, and scabs. I would probably go to a dermatologist to at least have them tell you what the source of the problem is, that way you will know how to treat it yourself. I understand not wanting to go but if you are to the point of it possibly thinning your hair it could be fungal or something only a doctor would know how to diagnose.

Also about the style. If you want to wear it down how about a very loose braid that starts about 2/3 of the way down. That way it is not pulling against your scalp but the ends are secure. I would also oil your hair if you wear it down like that to protect it. If you do an updo I would make sure that the style is on top of you head that way there willl be no pulling and stress to the roots.

[mariazelie]

I've heard that too, I just can't stand the smell of any kind of vinegar.:)
Doesn't sound like you want to try the vinegar, but in my experience it made my fine, tangle-prone hair very much a tangle! My hair did not agree with it at all. I also wanted to suggest a "snood" (many available online) for keeping your hair up comfortably and not damaging it any further, at least at home, for chores, etc;

[Savvyhorsez]

GlassWidow, you raise an interesting point. I could have sworn that the shampoo that I used was sulfate free, but alas, they're full of it! I do remember at a time though I had a shampoo that was sulfate free. Perhaps I should look into that too to see what it was! Thanks!

Longhairedlady, do you know if it makes a difference if it's cold pressed EVOO? I've heard that cold press is better in foods, I wonder if it makes a difference in hair, makes sense! Thanks for the braid tip, but most of my tangles occur around my shoulders, and a bit below that, so this is what? Day two, and I'm just wearing a braid, I don't feel it pulling much if at all, and I was able to put it all in my helmet when I went riding yesterday without it falling until much later in the ride after I rode some fast cantering and cross country jumping stuff.:) I do admit that I left my braid in overnight, it's no worse than it usually looks, but I probably have lots of braid waves.:rolleyes: With my hair being so thin, it doesn't take much to wave or curl it. (Just took it out of the braid, I felt guilty for keeping it that way for so long, even though I put it in almost completely dry, oh yes, braid waves galore! Lol.

Mariazelie, I have to admit, I had to look up what a snood was. I thought it was some odd type of thing before you mentioned it was for hair, I figured it was something to wrap your hair up in like it was in some kind of surgeon's cap. Too funny. Don't the snoods really tangle your hair if it's not braided in there or something? Thanks all!

[ssjhotau2]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet- but have you tried tee tree oil?
My boyfriend also has HUGE flakes of dandruff from right behind his ears forward to his temples and his hair is thinner there even though he has impossibly thick hair on the rest of his head.
When the dandruff is particularly bad sometimes they turn yellow and are more like scabs than dandruff and he gets little sores on his head (whether that is from the itching or the dandruff we don't know) he also wont go to the doctor about it.

What has helped him the most is Tea Tree Oil. He uses Natures Gate Tea Tree shampoo and also has a tea tree oil/eucalyptus oil mix we got from a health food store that says its for dandruff. He uses the oil when it starts to get really itchy. He showers twice a day (because he works in fast food) and his scalp gets dry- so he breaks into my coconut oil and oils his scalp/hair to keep his head from getting too dry/itchy.

[Savvyhorsez]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet- but have you tried tee tree oil?
My boyfriend also has HUGE flakes of dandruff from right behind his ears forward to his temples and his hair is thinner there even though he has impossibly thick hair on the rest of his head.
When the dandruff is particularly bad sometimes they turn yellow and are more like scabs than dandruff and he gets little sores on his head (whether that is from the itching or the dandruff we don't know) he also wont go to the doctor about it.

What has helped him the most is Tea Tree Oil. He uses Natures Gate Tea Tree shampoo and also has a tea tree oil/eucalyptus oil mix we got from a health food store that says its for dandruff. He uses the oil when it starts to get really itchy. He showers twice a day (because he works in fast food) and his scalp gets dry- so he breaks into my coconut oil and oils his scalp/hair to keep his head from getting too dry/itchy.

Oh! Tea tree oil, now that's something different that I didn't think of! I'll have to see if my Mother has some that I can "borrow" to try it out if need be.:D Thanks!

[FrozenBritannia]

FYI, I know some people who swear that tea tree oil and TTO products keep head lice away, for anyone who maybe has daughters with long at hair at school..

[Darkhorse1]

Having suffered with this since I was pre-teen, I can tell you all I've gone through:

first, dandruff shampoos CAN CAUSE ITCHING: reason: it's solving the problem under the scalp. I spoke to many doctors and pharmacists and dermatologists and for me this was what I learned:

1. Dandruff has different grades/levels. The white flakes and itchiness is somewhere between mild to moderate. Severe is when your scalp inflames and the dandruff is hard/crusty and your scalp bleeds when you scratch it off. You also lose hair (yes, this happened to me--fist fulls of hair lost)

2. Mild to moderate dandruff can be managed wtih OTC, severe needs a prescription. I got steriod drops for mine at it's worst, and that stopped the itching instantly. I used them all of twice, and problem was gone.

3. Dandruff is tripped off by weather changes, diet changes and stress

4. OTC dandruff shampoos that work are :Nizoral (this would be for a moderate leaning to bad dandruff, but it WILL cause itching. Drove me nuts!! When I went back to H&S, the itching stopped) Head and Shoulders (Ph balanced so good for color treated hair--Nizoral is not recommended for color treated hair)

5. At the barn, I tend to use a ponytail or braid, then knot the braid so it doesn't get in the way. Other options are bunching it into a baseball hat if scalp is sensitive, but I found wearing hats caused more itching--better to let your scalp breath.

6. Cool/cold water rinses after washing really, really eased the bad itching.

Feel free to PM me on this--I plan to write a dandruff article based on my years of experience, but remember, each person IS different and you have to play around with things.

My dandruff has cropped up in the last few weeks, but our weather has changed from summer to autumn and with more work, I'm a bit more stressed.

[Savvyhorsez]

Having suffered with this since I was pre-teen, I can tell you all I've gone through:

first, dandruff shampoos CAN CAUSE ITCHING: reason: it's solving the problem under the scalp. I spoke to many doctors and pharmacists and dermatologists and for me this was what I learned:

1. Dandruff has different grades/levels. The white flakes and itchiness is somewhere between mild to moderate. Severe is when your scalp inflames and the dandruff is hard/crusty and your scalp bleeds when you scratch it off. You also lose hair (yes, this happened to me--fist fulls of hair lost)

2. Mild to moderate dandruff can be managed wtih OTC, severe needs a prescription. I got steriod drops for mine at it's worst, and that stopped the itching instantly. I used them all of twice, and problem was gone.

3. Dandruff is tripped off by weather changes, diet changes and stress

4. OTC dandruff shampoos that work are :Nizoral (this would be for a moderate leaning to bad dandruff, but it WILL cause itching. Drove me nuts!! When I went back to H&S, the itching stopped) Head and Shoulders (Ph balanced so good for color treated hair--Nizoral is not recommended for color treated hair)

5. At the barn, I tend to use a ponytail or braid, then knot the braid so it doesn't get in the way. Other options are bunching it into a baseball hat if scalp is sensitive, but I found wearing hats caused more itching--better to let your scalp breath.

6. Cool/cold water rinses after washing really, really eased the bad itching.

Feel free to PM me on this--I plan to write a dandruff article based on my years of experience, but remember, each person IS different and you have to play around with things.

My dandruff has cropped up in the last few weeks, but our weather has changed from summer to autumn and with more work, I'm a bit more stressed.

Wow Darkhorse1, thank you for sharing your experiences! I think an article on the matter is a fabulous idea! I do figure that besides the mild reaction my hair has to weather, stress certainly has got to be a factor. Such great information from everyone, so many things to try! I'll certainly give everyone an update when I've found out what my hair does and doesn't like! Thank You!

[Savvyhorsez]

Updated in my first post.:)

[Amber_Maiden]

I hear taking zinc, orally, might help. Yo can also try olive oil massaged on the scalp...

As for the splits, try S&Ding every day.

[Savvyhorsez]

Thank you Amber Maiden.:)

[Darkhorse1]

Hey--just wanted to let you know I started using Head and Shoulders for smooth silky hair, and I'm finding it very good! I am using Pantene's clarifying shampoo (my last, coveted bottle..sniff sniff) for the first wash, then the H&S for smooth silky hair and what a difference!

I too have dandruff over my ear and into my temples, and I have hair thinner there, but my hair dresser said that's just my natural hair line.

I often wonder if people who wear helmets will suffer more from dandruff as it is a fungus, and we sweat when we ride, and our heads are covered, creating a dark moist environment that a fungus would LOVE.

Take care and I hope this helps! :)

[Savvyhorsez]

You raise a good point about helmet hair and now come to think of it, I love leaving my hair up in a wet towel after I've washed it so it stays "cleaner" in my mind longer. That could be a cause that started this nasty thing.:( Thank you!

[lacefrost]

My advice is to leave your scalp alone. It sounds like you're doing a lot to it. Washing it frequently, scritching it frequently, wearing tight updos, etc. etc. Your scalp is super freaked out on top of whatever dermatitis or dandruff issues you may have. Give yourself a weekend, for example, where you don't do anything to your scalp. Just stay in and don't wash it, etc. Just let it be. It could begin to resolve the issues.

Short of that, I like the olive oil ideas. They get you clean without doing so much to your scalp.

[Savvyhorsez]

Interesting perspective Lacefrost, I'll certainly look into that as well. Thank you!