Recently Discovered: "Ooh, I have FINE hair!"

[ElvenArchess]

[Warning: This is somewhat annoyingly detailed, but it's so you get a better idea of my hair so you can help me! :D]

Ever since I was little, I've thought my hair was thick. Like, super thick, just TONS of thick hair. And now that I'm older and have grown more analytical (I'm not very observant to begin with), I've realized that my hair is, in fact, fine.
For years I've been fooled! And the culprit? Poof. Evil, frizzy, poof. My hair may be fine, but the second it begins to dry out of the shower, it gains ridiculous amounts of volume from my ears down (the top of my head just becomes a bunch of fly-away frizz)! I call it pyramid hair. :( It's like just coming into contact with air (like walking around with wind flowing through my hair or passing by a fan of ANY kind for even half a second) turns it into a white girl afro!

So I need your help, everyone, what can I do? What, perhaps, products should I start using? My hair is soft and fine, and I've even tried a shampoo and conditioner made for fine hair, but all it accomplished was making my hair feel like a pile of dry sticks, a delicious, green apple-scented, pile of dry sticks. I just want to use something that will tame my frizz and poof. If I shower and sleep on it, my hair is a-okay (albeit my bangs will be a tiny bit greasy), but as for any kind of same-day styling, there's no dice.
Straightening (on the EXTREMELY rare occasion that I do) does nothing to control the poof, nor do products that say they will (such as Bed Head's "Spoil Me" Defrizzer, Smoother, & Instant Restyler; Bed Head's "Ego Boost" Split End Mender/Leave-in Conditioner; Paul Mitchell's "Super Skinny Serum,"). I need some help, ladies and gentlemen! Product suggestions, styling suggestions

Also, someone requested that I use a boar-bristle brush instead of a comb when my hair is dry. Thoughts?

Other info:
I'm currently using Moroccan Argan Oil Shampoo by Organix and Intensive Repair Conditioner by Dove, with the CWC method every other day.
To counter-act the frizz when I get out of the shower, I usually put my hair in a braid so everything is contained and can't become pure fly-away.

[archel]

I'm listening in, because this sounds just like my hair! I can only weigh in and say that CO was an epic disaster for me. I have to keep it clean and moisturized, but not with anything heavy or it is a lanky mess. CO leaves me dull and flat. Anyway, I'm curious to hear the advice you get and YES to the BBB - it's so great for smoothing down frizz.

[Yame]

First of all I want to say your face and hair are absolutely gorgeous. Keep growing your hair! Thin or thick, fine or not, frizzy or sleek, your hair is going to look gorgeous long.

Second, I think you mean to say your hair is "thin" as opposed to "fine." "Fine" in LHC-speak refers to the thickness of the individual strands (the opposite of which is "coarse"), whereas "thin" refers to the thickness of the hair in general, as in, how thick your pony tail circumference measures out to be (the opposite of which is "thick").

Now, as for the advice, you may be washing your hair too much. Every other day is better than everyday, and I know some people have trouble stretching washes, but in my personal experience I've found that shampooing my hair too often was causing dryness which in turn caused my hair to get frizzy. The less I wash it, the better it looks (and for longer), so I am down to once a week.

You could try oiling your hair to keep the frizzies under control... just a slight bit of coconut oil (or whatever else you want to use, ask around and experiment--I am not the person to ask about oils here) dabbed onto the palm and then spread through the length should be enough.

[ElvenArchess]

I'm listening in, because this sounds just like my hair! I can only weigh in and say that CO was an epic disaster for me. I have to keep it clean and moisturized, but not with anything heavy or it is a lanky mess. CO leaves me dull and flat. Anyway, I'm curious to hear the advice you get and YES to the BBB - it's so great for smoothing down frizz.
I wanted to cry when I tried the CO method. I only did it for about a week and a half, but that was the most horrifying week and a half of my hair's life! It actually felt like straw. *Insert video clips of my panic attack* :p

[jaine]

I have yet to figure out how to tame the poof. The best I can do lately is to dry it in a high bun so at least my roots are as voluminous as the bottom ... then it looks more balanced.
Layers help too ...do you have layers?

[ElvenArchess]

First of all I want to say your face and hair are absolutely gorgeous. Keep growing your hair! Thin or thick, fine or not, frizzy or sleek, your hair is going to look gorgeous long.

Second, I think you mean to say your hair is "thin" as opposed to "fine." "Fine" in LHC-speak refers to the thickness of the individual strands (the opposite of which is "coarse"), whereas "thin" refers to the thickness of the hair in general, as in, how thick your pony tail circumference measures out to be (the opposite of which is "thick").

Now, as for the advice, you may be washing your hair too much. Every other day is better than everyday, and I know some people have trouble stretching washes, but in my personal experience I've found that shampooing my hair too often was causing dryness which in turn caused my hair to get frizzy. The less I wash it, the better it looks (and for longer), so I am down to once a week.

You could try oiling your hair to keep the frizzies under control... just a slight bit of coconut oil (or whatever else you want to use, ask around and experiment--I am not the person to ask about oils here) dabbed onto the palm and then spread through the length should be enough.
Thank you for the compliment and the clarification! I'm so excited for long hair... So hard to wait and keep my roots virgin without dying them crazy colors like I've done for the last eight years of my life!

As for the showering less often, I've always wondered how you guys do it.. Doesn't your hair start looking greasy? Mine does after the second day to the point where it's just laying flat on my scalp and prone to static-frizz. What is your guys' secret to non-grease, or isn't there one?

The coconut oil is actually what I use on my face when I get out of the shower (it evens out with my just-as-wacky skin type), as for my hair, it makes it a little softer, but does nothing for poof unfortunately.

I'm not dismissing your ideas, just elaborating on the reactions I've had to that stuff, as it will better help define my wacky hair. XD

[ElvenArchess]

I have yet to figure out how to tame the poof. The best I can do lately is to dry it in a high bun so at least my roots are as voluminous as the bottom ... then it looks more balanced.
Layers help too ...do you have layers?
I like the high bun idea! I tend to do a loose French braid then gently tug at the top part until it airs out the roots and gains some volume.

I'm actually growing out my layers (had them for ages) because all they seem to accomplish is making my ends split quicker. :(

[MinderMutsig]

Do you brush your hair after your shower?

[Alex Lou]

It sounds to me like your hair is dry. The solution should be any method of adding moisture. But it sounds like you've tried a variety of products that should have added moisture.

I'm going to second Yame's opinion that you're using shampoo too often. How about alternating between washing and CO? You could wash with shampoo one day, do CO the next, etc. Or do you think that you'll get the straw-texture problem again that way?

Switching to finger-combing might help too.

[katsrevenge]

I have fairly fine, thick hair too. I CO most washes, and use shampoo only on the roots. When I do use shampoo, I put conditioner on first, do all the other shower stuff, rinse it out, shampoo the roots and add more conditioner on the ends and then rinse it all out. Most days, I add some coconut oil to the ends to de-poof and keep them happy.

My hair needed protein more then it needed moisture. So I picked up protein treatments (Hask Placenta from a box store as I'm cheap) and used the coconut conditioner from Suave (silk protein). After it was built up a bit, I did switch to other stuff, still suave just not the protein ladden stuff.

I'm gonna guess that your conditioner may have had silicons in it.. and those are not good for CO washing. It leaves hair gunky. I use the cheap stuff, the Suave and VO5 as my conditioners. I picked up some Garnier Triple nutrition (Non protein, non silicon stuff) to use a bit of as the second conditioner. My hair is the happiest it has been for a long time. Less poof, fewer splits and it just looks happy.

I wash my hair three time, give or take, in the summer, less in winter as needed. As your head adjusts you will get greasy the next day but that goes away eventually. Just brush that oil down your hair... it is good for it and wear a bun the next day. If it bothers you, you can pat a tiny bit of baby powder into the roots and it will absorb the greasy crap. And it takes more then a week for hair to adjust.. try a month at least.

[Neneka]

I don't know if this helps you but there is this article about fine and thick hair: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=188

:)

[oktobergoud]

Ha, that sounded just like me. Hairdressers (and my mom) always used to tell me how thick my hair was, so I always thought it was well.. thick, doh! I have bleached it to platinum (uh I mean DEATH) many times and always wondered why my hair got so incredibly damaged (mind you, I was always rocking a supershort pixie with platinum hair and it was still fried!). And why the sides of my head were white and the back yellow etc. etc.

So, just like you I guess, when I stumbled upon this board, I realized I had FINE hair! All of a sudden, everything made sense.. but then I discovered I also had thick hair. Huh?? I have fine & thin hair (at the sides) and thick & full hair at the back. And it's also still a little damaged at the ends (at the back). So uh, long story short, I feel your pain!

What works for me? Well uhm, I use all kinds of things on my hair since it's so different. But for my fine hair, I try to use as less cones as possible. Cones really weigh em down fast! So when I have showered I usually use a coney leave-in for the hair that is thick/coarse, otherwise that gets really dry.


However, my hair always dries up frizzy as well! I sometimes use a little bit coconut oil but I have to admit that I don't dare to use it all the time, because I'm afraid it will make my fine hair greasy and flat. So.. long story short: I will follow this thread to see if I can find something as well :P

[Yame]

Thank you for the compliment and the clarification! I'm so excited for long hair... So hard to wait and keep my roots virgin without dying them crazy colors like I've done for the last eight years of my life!

As for the showering less often, I've always wondered how you guys do it.. Doesn't your hair start looking greasy? Mine does after the second day to the point where it's just laying flat on my scalp and prone to static-frizz. What is your guys' secret to non-grease, or isn't there one?

The coconut oil is actually what I use on my face when I get out of the shower (it evens out with my just-as-wacky skin type), as for my hair, it makes it a little softer, but does nothing for poof unfortunately.

I'm not dismissing your ideas, just elaborating on the reactions I've had to that stuff, as it will better help define my wacky hair. XD

My hair is (or, was?) naturally quite oily, and for some time I used to have to wash it everyday, because by the night of the day I washed, it would already be limp and oily. That clearly didn't work and was really drying my hair, so it didn't last long. But for most of my long-haired life, I did wash it every other day, or once every 3 days. I didn't realize that was drying out my length and making my scalp more oily, but that is precisely what regular washing does.

Even the gentlest shampoos are too harsh for using so often, and the more you wash your scalp, the more oil it produces to compensate for it, so if you wash often your hair will get oily quicker.

All it takes is giving your hair time to get used to less regular washes. You go through an icky period, but then your hair gets used to it. The icky period is more tolerable if you can put your hair up, preferably in a bun. Eventually, your scalp's oil production will get regulated, and it will take longer for your hair to get oily.

So, back when I used to wash every other day, my hair would be frizzy and dry on wash day (day 1) but then by day 2 it would already be too oily. If I got to day 3 without washing, I'd have to wear it up because it was so oily. Now that I am down to once a week, my hair looks good on the day that I wash it. On day 2, it still looks just as good and loose. On day 3, it's a little more limp but I can still wear it down if I want (although I usually don't, I've been trying to bun on all weekdays to protect my hair). Right now I am on day 4 and I wore my hair down with no oiliness or itchiness, and it's not limp either because I damp braided it last night. Tomorrow will be day 5 and normally by day 5, my hair would be too oily to be presentable but judging by the way it's looking today, I think tomorrow it'll be just fine. On day 6, it's definitely quite oily, but since I wear it in a bun the oiliness is not visible, and if it is it will just be mistaken for styling product. On this thread, I posted a few pictures of my buns which were all taken on day 6 http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=78278&highlight=buns+nubs I don't think my hair looks oily in them, just shiny, but if I take it down you can definitely tell, the hair close to my scalp will look wet to someone who doesn't know :D
I usually wash again on day 8, but sometimes do it on 7 or 9, depending on what's going on in my life ;)

So basically, all I do is just wash less. Keeping it up in a bun is what makes me able to get through days 6-9. Brushing the hair with a bbb at night on the oily days also helps distribute the oil, but I can't say I've been very good about doing that.

[celebriangel]

This sounds like my hair.

I discovered that the reason it did its poof thing was because it is, in fact, curly. Treating it like straight hair gets me nowhere but pain. These days, I CO and airdry and generally do lots of moisture-enhancing things, and don't brush unless I'm gonna put it up, and it dries pleasantly into waves and curls.

[ElvenArchess]

My hair is (or, was?) naturally quite oily, and for some time I used to have to wash it everyday, because by the night of the day I washed, it would already be limp and oily. That clearly didn't work and was really drying my hair, so it didn't last long. But for most of my long-haired life, I did wash it every other day, or once every 3 days. I didn't realize that was drying out my length and making my scalp more oily, but that is precisely what regular washing does.

Even the gentlest shampoos are too harsh for using so often, and the more you wash your scalp, the more oil it produces to compensate for it, so if you wash often your hair will get oily quicker.

All it takes is giving your hair time to get used to less regular washes. You go through an icky period, but then your hair gets used to it. The icky period is more tolerable if you can put your hair up, preferably in a bun. Eventually, your scalp's oil production will get regulated, and it will take longer for your hair to get oily.

So, back when I used to wash every other day, my hair would be frizzy and dry on wash day (day 1) but then by day 2 it would already be too oily. If I got to day 3 without washing, I'd have to wear it up because it was so oily. Now that I am down to once a week, my hair looks good on the day that I wash it. On day 2, it still looks just as good and loose. On day 3, it's a little more limp but I can still wear it down if I want (although I usually don't, I've been trying to bun on all weekdays to protect my hair). Right now I am on day 4 and I wore my hair down with no oiliness or itchiness, and it's not limp either because I damp braided it last night. Tomorrow will be day 5 and normally by day 5, my hair would be too oily to be presentable but judging by the way it's looking today, I think tomorrow it'll be just fine. On day 6, it's definitely quite oily, but since I wear it in a bun the oiliness is not visible, and if it is it will just be mistaken for styling product. On this thread, I posted a few pictures of my buns which were all taken on day 6 http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=78278&highlight=buns+nubs I don't think my hair looks oily in them, just shiny, but if I take it down you can definitely tell, the hair close to my scalp will look wet to someone who doesn't know :D
I usually wash again on day 8, but sometimes do it on 7 or 9, depending on what's going on in my life ;)

So basically, all I do is just wash less. Keeping it up in a bun is what makes me able to get through days 6-9. Brushing the hair with a bbb at night on the oily days also helps distribute the oil, but I can't say I've been very good about doing that.
I haven't washed my hair in three days, and my hair is pretty greasy at the roots more toward my face. I used a BBB to spread the oil a little better, it ended up making my hair from my ears up stick to my scalp, and from the ears down it was a static poof nightmare. I'm pretty close to breaking down and washing it tonight because I have to work in the morning. I do have a question, though, and I reaaaally don't mean to offend, but what is the point of doing all of this stuff to tame my hair if I'll only be able to put it in a bun the whole time? I like to wear my hair down a lot, and that won't work if it looks super oily. :( Is it just a cut-my-losses type thing and just deal with frizzy hair the first day if I want to wear it down? Or eventually will it look normal for a week at a time before I do have to wash it?

As you can tell I'm very curious, but with good reason! :p

[SarahKayfa]

It gets better!! I promise.
It took a few months for my hair to really adjust to stretching washes and get to where is looks good. Dry shampoos helped me get through it. Like a previous poster said, baby powder applied and brushed though works as well.

I have fine hair of medium thickness at the front, and very thick fine hair at the back of my head. I CO wash about once a week now and my hair stays looking pretty good for at least the first few days before I put it up, but it took months to get there. It's the best thing I ever did for my hair though.

[YesitsReal]

Hi!

Shampoos made for fine hair are generally geared toward making that fine hair look more voluminous, so they strip off everything that might possibly weigh the hair down.

I would try cones and/or oil. Sounds like you prolly need the moisture. :)


ETA: I also second the suggestion to treat it like curly hair. I use some of those methods, like drying with a t-shirt, and my hair loves them.

[ElvenArchess]

It gets better!! I promise.
It took a few months for my hair to really adjust to stretching washes and get to where is looks good. Dry shampoos helped me get through it. Like a previous poster said, baby powder applied and brushed though works as well.

I have fine hair of medium thickness at the front, and very thick fine hair at the back of my head. I CO wash about once a week now and my hair stays looking pretty good for at least the first few days before I put it up, but it took months to get there. It's the best thing I ever did for my hair though.
CO washing is another thing I am severely apprehensive about. x.x I tried it for a week and it took almost as long for all of the moisture to return to my hair! For some reason the CO method caused my hair to feel, the best way I can describe it is just dead. Dry shampoos aren't bad for your hair? I thought they would be, they sounded too good to be true! :P

[ElvenArchess]

Hi!

Shampoos made for fine hair are generally geared toward making that fine hair look more voluminous, so they strip off everything that might possibly weigh the hair down.

I would try cones and/or oil. Sounds like you prolly need the moisture. :)


ETA: I also second the suggestion to treat it like curly hair. I use some of those methods, like drying with a t-shirt, and my hair loves them.
You're exactly right about the volume thing! When I reread the label, it said in one of the mini-descriptions on the front that it was meant to volumize fine hair (I got it as a gift, so I didn't think to thoroughly examine anything on it). Ugh it was just evil haha.

I have a question about your method of post-showering. When do you apply the oil, if you do? Before you start drying your hair with a t-shirt or after?

[templeofvenus]

I have fibe hair that can be poofy like candy floss dried naturally and all static wit a blow dryer- I too wash daily as have really oily scalp and just haven't been able to stand not washing daily so I am watching this thread keenly for ideas!

[swetiepeti]

when you said your hair looked like straw afterward using CO washing for a week can I ask what conditioner you were using? Did it have proteins in it? Asking because although my hair loves proteins and oils many on the board here get what they call "crunchy hair" or "straw hair" when they used protein enriched conditioners. Did you perhaps leave the CO wash on too long, and did you rinse it totally out? Dilution may help if it's one of the cone-free conditioners. Personally, I found that Tresseme Moisturizing Shampoo dried my hair out, but VO5 Kiwi Lime didn't degrease enough unless I wanted to soak and scrub a long time. Sometimes it takes a bit to find one your hair likes. When I did, my hair got really happy. Enough that my husband, stereotypical male that he is, noticed and commented on it.
Another thought came to mind to suggest to add to your shampoo washing regiment. Try adding coconut or olive oil or some kind of oil to the bottom part of your hair (whatever is not oily) a few hours or even right before shampooing if pressed for time. Before I found a CO washing that worked for me I used the following method to decent effect. I'd add a drop of oil to my hand, spread it over my hair, brush and repeat until the length was slightly oily to more closely match the root/scalp area. I'd then shampoo, using a diluted shampoo, concentrating on the scalp to ear area letting the suds naturally travel down the length and at the end I'd finger comb/massage the suds though the length and rinse well. While still wet I'd add one drop of oil to my palm. rub them, then spread it onto the very ends. I still had the oily scalp issue from washing so much, but it vastly improved my flyaway issues without making the ends a dry mess
You'll get lots of suggestions her because as they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat (not literal for non English speakers) and everyone's hair is unique although those that have similar hair are the most likely to offer suggestion that will work for you, although you still may have to modify. Even the type of oil may make a difference. Some fine hair likes the lighter oils like Argan and Jojoba. My hair is a mix of fine straight blond, thick wavy medium brown, and spiral curly red, straighter and lighter up front, darker wavier in back. Although the curly reds are the tiny minority they seem to rule what my hair likes.
PS, your hair looks Gorgeous in your pic, betting it will look fantastic long.

[noelgirl]

That's something that I didn't realize about my hair for a long time - that even though there was a lot of it and it poufed everywhere, the individual strands are actually very fine. My experience has been that frizz wants to be curl, it just needs moisture. So the suggestions upthread to treat it like curly hair are spot on, because your hair might be curlier than you think. Lately I've been using Ouidad products, and they've made my hair much healthier - less frizz and drastically fewer splits. In the past I've had on-and-off success with CO, generally finding that my hair responds best if not every wash is CO - too much buildup mitigates any moisture benefits I might otherwise get.

[JuliaDancer]

My hair isn't fine, but it's relatively thick, and I sometimes get poofiness (especially when I had shorter hair). What helps my hair avoid frizz and calm down after showering is to comb it while it's still damp, and put it in a bun to dry the rest of the way. I leave the bun up while I'm at work, and by the evening when I leave, my hair is smooth (plus it gets bun waves).

[ElvenArchess]

when you said your hair looked like straw afterward using CO washing for a week can I ask what conditioner you were using? Did it have proteins in it? Asking because although my hair loves proteins and oils many on the board here get what they call "crunchy hair" or "straw hair" when they used protein enriched conditioners. Did you perhaps leave the CO wash on too long, and did you rinse it totally out? Dilution may help if it's one of the cone-free conditioners. Personally, I found that Tresseme Moisturizing Shampoo dried my hair out, but VO5 Kiwi Lime didn't degrease enough unless I wanted to soak and scrub a long time. Sometimes it takes a bit to find one your hair likes. When I did, my hair got really happy. Enough that my husband, stereotypical male that he is, noticed and commented on it.
Another thought came to mind to suggest to add to your shampoo washing regiment. Try adding coconut or olive oil or some kind of oil to the bottom part of your hair (whatever is not oily) a few hours or even right before shampooing if pressed for time. Before I found a CO washing that worked for me I used the following method to decent effect. I'd add a drop of oil to my hand, spread it over my hair, brush and repeat until the length was slightly oily to more closely match the root/scalp area. I'd then shampoo, using a diluted shampoo, concentrating on the scalp to ear area letting the suds naturally travel down the length and at the end I'd finger comb/massage the suds though the length and rinse well. While still wet I'd add one drop of oil to my palm. rub them, then spread it onto the very ends. I still had the oily scalp issue from washing so much, but it vastly improved my flyaway issues without making the ends a dry mess
You'll get lots of suggestions her because as they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat (not literal for non English speakers) and everyone's hair is unique although those that have similar hair are the most likely to offer suggestion that will work for you, although you still may have to modify. Even the type of oil may make a difference. Some fine hair likes the lighter oils like Argan and Jojoba. My hair is a mix of fine straight blond, thick wavy medium brown, and spiral curly red, straighter and lighter up front, darker wavier in back. Although the curly reds are the tiny minority they seem to rule what my hair likes.
PS, your hair looks Gorgeous in your pic, betting it will look fantastic long.
Thanks for all the in-depth info, it's exactly what I'm looking for! I will definitely try out these methods! :)

[ElvenArchess]

This is why I come here, you guys are amazing at help. I'm making a word document (haha I'm so old school) of all of the tips and main points of washing methods you guys are saying. I'm taking them all in to account, keep the info coming! :D