Conditioner Damage?!

[sun-kissed]

Last week I did a deep-condition wash on my hair, useing my usual conditioner. But this time instead of just putting it on and washing it out, I left it on for five minutes. And my hair felt great for the first day, but it's been getting dryer and dryer. Today it felt like straw, even after sleeping with a ton of coconut oil on it. So I looked at the back of conditioner lable, and do you know what?
Oh gosh, you'll never guess.

The second ingredient: Alcohol...
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..
.........
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WHAT THE HECK?!?!?! I soaked my hair in ALCOHOL!! :shocked:

So what do I do?? Wash it? Do some super-moisture treatment? It's all fluffy and the last five inches feel horrible! I've drenched it in coconut oil a few times today, and kept it up because it's so straw-like I'm afraid it'll get damaged easily in the state it's in.

What do ya'll suggest? I've never dealt with hair like this, I truly have no idea what to do. :(

[Jean Stuart]

BREATH.. Keep the oil on it will soak it up. Maybe add some olive oil.

[Mairéad]

Hmm, I'd probably do a hardcore moisture treatment like a SMT, an oil treatment, and a CO wash (obviously with alcohol free conditioner!). Put it up for awhile and handle it minimally. I'm pretty sure some benign neglect with a few planned moisture treatments and you'll see your hair return to a more normal state. But, ditch that conditioner.

[luxepiggy]

Hold on, hold on, don't do anything hasty!!

First of all not all alcohols are drying. The "fatty alcohols" are very commonly used as emulsifiers, emollients or stabilizers in conditioner formulation. These alcohols will not dry out your hair. Most likely, the ingredient you saw was one of these fatty alcohols and not the cause of your current problems. Common fatty alcohols include cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, isocetyl alcohol, isostearyl alcohol, or stearyl alcohol.

Can you provide the full ingredients list of the conditioner? Does it have any protein in it?

[Mairéad]

:disgust: Oh now I feel silly. Yes, now I wonder was it a fatty alcohol? They're all not alike. Some alcohols are our friends for our hair.

Ingredient list please? :eek:

[ccmso12]

All conditioners have this good 'alcahol' usually listed 2nd or 3rd onthe list :) LOL

Id say it sounds like you need to clarify

[UltraBella]

Hold on, hold on, don't do anything hasty!!

First of all not all alcohols are drying. The "fatty alcohols" are very commonly used as emulsifiers, emollients or stabilizers in conditioner formulation. These alcohols will not dry out your hair. Most likely, the ingredient you saw was one of these fatty alcohols and not the cause of your current problems. Common fatty alcohols include cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, isocetyl alcohol, isostearyl alcohol, or stearyl alcohol.

Can you provide the full ingredients list of the conditioner? Does it have any protein in it?

Yes, this exactly !

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

A lot of conditioners have alcohol in them..
Maybe you need to clarify like above said.

[pixiedust]

Hold on, hold on, don't do anything hasty!!

First of all not all alcohols are drying. The "fatty alcohols" are very commonly used as emulsifiers, emollients or stabilizers in conditioner formulation. These alcohols will not dry out your hair. Most likely, the ingredient you saw was one of these fatty alcohols and not the cause of your current problems. Common fatty alcohols include cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, isocetyl alcohol, isostearyl alcohol, or stearyl alcohol.

Can you provide the full ingredients list of the conditioner? Does it have any protein in it?

I definitely agree with this post. Also, sounds like too much protein to me. Have you washed it since? if so, are there proteins or amino acids in your shampoo/conditioner? Coconut oil can make too much protein worse sometimes, IMO.

[Roscata]

Hold on, hold on, don't do anything hasty!!

First of all not all alcohols are drying. The "fatty alcohols" are very commonly used as emulsifiers, emollients or stabilizers in conditioner formulation. These alcohols will not dry out your hair. Most likely, the ingredient you saw was one of these fatty alcohols and not the cause of your current problems. Common fatty alcohols include cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, isocetyl alcohol, isostearyl alcohol, or stearyl alcohol.

Can you provide the full ingredients list of the conditioner? Does it have any protein in it?

This^. If it is protein overload you can clarify then to a deep moisture treatment (with a protein-free conditioner). Maybe your hair just doesn't like protein. Good luck! :D

[NightOwl26]

I agree with protein overload. Clarify, then used protein free conditioner/SMT treatment. Some protein free conditioners I read about are the generic Biolage conditioning balm from Sally's, and Aussie Moisture conditioner.

[Athena's Owl]

what product did you use? that will give us a hint as to what happened. also, I don't think that your conditioner was using a drying alcohol. likely it was cetyl alchohol, which is a fatty alchohol and a nonionic surfactant.

[sun-kissed]

Hold on, hold on, don't do anything hasty!!
Just swam 60 laps in the pool, I'm okay now. ;)

First of all not all alcohols are drying. The "fatty alcohols" are very commonly used as emulsifiers, emollients or stabilizers in conditioner formulation. These alcohols will not dry out your hair. Most likely, the ingredient you saw was one of these fatty alcohols and not the cause of your current problems. Common fatty alcohols include cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, isocetyl alcohol, isostearyl alcohol, or stearyl alcohol.

Can you provide the full ingredients list of the conditioner? Does it have any protein in it?Wait...really? I had no idea.. /sighswithrelief.

WATER, CETYL ALCOHOL, STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE, FRAGRANCE(parfum), LACTIC ACID, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DISODIUM EDTA, PEG- 150 DISTEARATE, 2-BROMO-2-NITROPROPANE-1, 3-DIOL, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE[Vitamin E Acetate], METHYLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE, METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE, PRUNUS SERRULATA FLOWER EXTRACT, RED 33, YELLOW 5.

Those words are gibberish to me, so please, let me know what's in it.

I definitely agree with this post. Also, sounds like too much protein to me. Have you washed it since? if so, are there proteins or amino acids in your shampoo/conditioner? Coconut oil can make too much protein worse sometimes, IMO.
I had not, until 30 minutes ago. I swam in mild pool water, and did a vinegar/rooibos wash. Drying now. And I have no earthly idea what's in my conditioner, but my hair has never liked conditioner for as long as I can remember, but it needs it.

[McFearless]

I think the coconut oil is causing the dryness. If your conditioner is filled with cones than its probably locking moisture out.

[luxepiggy]

Just swam 60 laps in the pool, I'm okay now. ;)
Wait...really? I had no idea.. /sighswithrelief.

WATER, CETYL ALCOHOL, STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE, FRAGRANCE(parfum), LACTIC ACID, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DISODIUM EDTA, PEG- 150 DISTEARATE, 2-BROMO-2-NITROPROPANE-1, 3-DIOL, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE[Vitamin E Acetate], METHYLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE, METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE, PRUNUS SERRULATA FLOWER EXTRACT, RED 33, YELLOW 5.

Those words are gibberish to me, so please, let me know what's in it.

I had not, until 30 minutes ago. I swam in mild pool water, and did a vinegar/rooibos wash. Drying now. And I have no earthly idea what's in my conditioner, but my hair has never liked conditioner for as long as I can remember, but it needs it.

Let me guess - Suave Naturals Wild Cherry Blossom? (^(oo)~)

I think at least part of the problem stems from the fact that this is not a suitable conditioner for doing a deep treatment. It just doesn't contain any of the heavy-duty conditioning ingredients. The only conditioning agent listed is stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, which is typically used as a cationic emulsifier to help increase the substantivity of other conditioning agents. Because it is water-soluble, it imparts transient conditioning for wet combability, but does not much more than that.

The ingredients make this seem very much like it might be a great conditioner for CO washing, but I would advise selecting something else for deep treatments.

Incidentally, what exactly is your current routine? It seems like you've got a bunch of different stuff going on, between the CO, the attempted deep treatment, vinegar, rooibos . . . perhaps it's just the shock of too many things at once to your hair?


More detail on the ingredients and their functions:
CETYL ALCOHOL - fatty alcohol emulsifier
STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE - cationic emulsifier & conditioning agent
LACTIC ACID - pH adjuster
POTASSIUM CHLORIDE - thickener to increase viscosity
DISODIUM EDTA - preservative
PEG- 150 DISTEARATE - thickener
2-BROMO-2-NITROPROPANE-1, 3-DIOL - preservative
TOCOPHERYL ACETATE[Vitamin E Acetate] - antioxidant
METHYLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE, METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE - preservatives

[Gulbahar]

Cetyl alcohol is an emulsifier. It has nothing to do with what you would think of as alcohol. In fact it's a solid white stuff that melts when you heat it.
I agree with piggy: there is nothing really moisturizing in that conditioner. As much as I love the stearamidopropyl stuff - without any oil it won't do that much good for your hair. I guess you could add oil to it and it would work great as a deep treatment. Or heavily oil your hair and use the conditioner to wash it out.

[sun-kissed]

Let me guess - Suave Naturals Wild Cherry Blossom? (^(oo)~)

I think at least part of the problem stems from the fact that this is not a suitable conditioner for doing a deep treatment. It just doesn't contain any of the heavy-duty conditioning ingredients. The only conditioning agent listed is stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, which is typically used as a cationic emulsifier to help increase the substantivity of other conditioning agents. Because it is water-soluble, it imparts transient conditioning for wet combability, but does not much more than that.

The ingredients make this seem very much like it might be a great conditioner for CO washing, but I would advise selecting something else for deep treatments.

Incidentally, what exactly is your current routine? It seems like you've got a bunch of different stuff going on, between the CO, the attempted deep treatment, vinegar, rooibos . . . perhaps it's just the shock of too many things at once to your hair?


More detail on the ingredients and their functions:
CETYL ALCOHOL - fatty alcohol emulsifier
STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE - cationic emulsifier & conditioning agent
LACTIC ACID - pH adjuster
POTASSIUM CHLORIDE - thickener to increase viscosity
DISODIUM EDTA - preservative
PEG- 150 DISTEARATE - thickener
2-BROMO-2-NITROPROPANE-1, 3-DIOL - preservative
TOCOPHERYL ACETATE[Vitamin E Acetate] - antioxidant
METHYLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE, METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE - preservatives

Haha, right on. ^-^

For the last three months I've been washing every three/four days with or vinegar or WO, depending on how dirty my hair is. So that is my 'normal' routine. Last week I added rooibos as a scalp wash, but it doesn't come in contact with my ends. So nothing too new going on..

What kind of conditioner would you suggest I look for, then, for deep treatments? Would Gulbahar's suggestion work okay?

[spidermom]

Some conditioners are not intended to be left on. They have ingredients that lift the cuticle to get the good stuff inside, but if left on, the cuticle will be damaged. (that's what I've read, anyway)

[torrilin]

Vitamin E is not just an anti-oxidant. It's also a preservative. Same deal for citric acid. It can do stuff to help with hard water build up, but it is also a preservative. Very few ingredients do one thing and one thing only and one thing always.

For swimming, are you wearing a cap and starting with hair that is already soaked well in plain water? If not, the problems you're having might not have anything to do with your conditioner. Most public pools are treated with chlorine or salt because without some kind of water treatment, the pool would likely spread disease. And all the good ways to kill germs also tend to be pretty rough on your hair... The disodium EDTA in your conditioner might help a little in dealing with the pool chemicals, but chances are it isn't a high enough concentration.

[sun-kissed]

Vitamin E is not just an anti-oxidant. It's also a preservative. Same deal for citric acid. It can do stuff to help with hard water build up, but it is also a preservative. Very few ingredients do one thing and one thing only and one thing always.

For swimming, are you wearing a cap and starting with hair that is already soaked well in plain water? If not, the problems you're having might not have anything to do with your conditioner. Most public pools are treated with chlorine or salt because without some kind of water treatment, the pool would likely spread disease. And all the good ways to kill germs also tend to be pretty rough on your hair... The disodium EDTA in your conditioner might help a little in dealing with the pool chemicals, but chances are it isn't a high enough concentration.
I pre-wet my hair, and braid it with lots of EVOO before swimming -- all swim caps I've tried damage my hair more than the water. And I'm talking about my own home pool, which is a mild salt-water pool, not chlorine.

[celebriangel]

For a deep treatment, I would just make it into an SMT. And add oil, in my case, but my hair thinks that oil is the second coming of christ or something.

[gthlvrmx]

Some conditioners are not intended to be left on. They have ingredients that lift the cuticle to get the good stuff inside, but if left on, the cuticle will be damaged. (that's what I've read, anyway)
Ohffff then what do i use? Because im using the Ocean Breeze one which has similar ingredients, and i do leave on conditioner at the end of my wash to make things smoother for untangling, but if it lifts the cuticle more, i don't want more damage. If i use anything that has more glycol, my hair get's poofy and so far my hair does not like oiling. Once every 2 months or so a light oiling will be good.



Originally Posted by luxepiggy http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=1779894#post1779894)
Let me guess - Suave Naturals Wild Cherry Blossom? (^(oo)~)

I think at least part of the problem stems from the fact that this is not a suitable conditioner for doing a deep treatment. It just doesn't contain any of the heavy-duty conditioning ingredients. The only conditioning agent listed is stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, which is typically used as a cationic emulsifier to help increase the substantivity of other conditioning agents. Because it is water-soluble, it imparts transient conditioning for wet combability, but does not much more than that.
So it doesn't moisturize or help take in more moisture, but isn't water enough to get moisture in the hair? I assumed for this reason, the Ocean Breeze or Wild Cherry Blossom would be good for CO washing since your get's some moisture by just the water and the conditioner helps clean and gives some slip.
It's too dry here in socal for me to be using too much gycol products or honey(SMT), my hair will poof up and get drier faster.
Is it really bad if you leave on the conditioner on your hair as a leave in since it raises the cuticle? I assumed it'd be best to do an ACV rinse at the end of every CO wash to close the cuticle.
Am i wrong here? Or is it not right to finish a wash with ACV and not rinse it out?

[spidermom]

I used to leave in a small amount of any conditioner that I happened to have on hand. I thought that was a good idea and doing me no harm until I came across the magazine article that said don't leave conditioner in your hair unless it is specifically a leave-in conditioner because of the reasons I stated earlier. I stopped doing that, and I'm not having as much trouble with split ends as I used to have. However, my hair dryer also broke around the same time, so maybe the improved condition is because I never blow-dry anymore.

Oh, and same with a deep treatment; not every conditioner is suitable.

[MajorasMask]

I'm sorry but could someone explain emulsion/emulsifiers? I tried to read about it but couldn't really understand >____<

[Mairéad]

I'm sorry but could someone explain emulsion/emulsifiers? I tried to read about it but couldn't really understand >____<

From what I understand (and people can correct/clarify/add info) emulsifiers combine and stabilize the ingredients. If you think about it, many conditioners contain both oils and water and they all have different sorts of densities which mean they should separate into films dependent on their density. I think emulsifies kind of "mix" them up into one happy and even mixture.

[ravenreed]

IIRC, emulsifiers allow oil and water to be mixed. Normally oil float on top of water and who wants that in their conditioner?

[Lianna]

It could be the coconut oil, some people experience dryness (http://reviews.longhaircommunity.com/showproduct.php/product/221/cat/6) from it.

[gthlvrmx]

I used to leave in a small amount of any conditioner that I happened to have on hand. I thought that was a good idea and doing me no harm until I came across the magazine article that said don't leave conditioner in your hair unless it is specifically a leave-in conditioner because of the reasons I stated earlier. I stopped doing that, and I'm not having as much trouble with split ends as I used to have. However, my hair dryer also broke around the same time, so maybe the improved condition is because I never blow-dry anymore.

Oh, and same with a deep treatment; not every conditioner is suitable.
Gah well this is lame. No more leaving in conditioner for me.

[x0h_bother]

I *think* that I read a lot of sprays have alcohol to make the drying of the water in the product happen faster. I would probably be less concerned about the alcohol in conditioners, when your hair is already wet and the product has lots of water. Still be concerned but it might help to understand the why about the alcohol being in there. You may be overconditioning, especially with oils, which produces dryness- that has happened to me a lot.

[cmg]

I think the coconut oil is causing the dryness. If your conditioner is filled with cones than its probably locking moisture out.
I thought something like this too. And also, the very same thing happens to me the day after washing. I dont use anything with proteins in it (perhaps I should?). I solve the problem by wetting the hair and running my fingers thru it with some coconut oil and perhaps some aloe vera gel. The next day its relatively okay again. If I dont wet it, it stays dry like that. I cant really put much oil in it, without water at the same time. I also have a spray bottle with a mixture of glycerine, rose water and coconut oil. But I havent gotten the hang of this yet, so I wont post any reciepes.

My hair never liked stuff with Distearate something. It seems to coat the hairs (I have thin hair) and I never get it to look or feel good with this stuff on it.

[Safira]

:flowers:
I used to leave in a small amount of any conditioner that I happened to have on hand. I thought that was a good idea and doing me no harm until I came across the magazine article that said don't leave conditioner in your hair unless it is specifically a leave-in conditioner because of the reasons I stated earlier. I stopped doing that, and I'm not having as much trouble with split ends as I used to have. However, my hair dryer also broke around the same time, so maybe the improved condition is because I never blow-dry anymore.

Oh, and same with a deep treatment; not every conditioner is suitable.

I´m curious: what ingrenties do not fit to deep treatment?

[YepLilly]

I *think* that I read a lot of sprays have alcohol to make the drying of the water in the product happen faster. I would probably be less concerned about the alcohol in conditioners, when your hair is already wet and the product has lots of water.

But IIRC the alcohols in most sprays are drying because they are not fatty alcohols (cetyl, cetearyl, stearyl, etc). The fatty alcohols instead can even be moisturizing and some people prefer them over regular humectants.

[MychelleC]

Vitamin E is not just an anti-oxidant. It's also a preservative. Same deal for citric acid. It can do stuff to help with hard water build up, but it is also a preservative. Very few ingredients do one thing and one thing only and one thing always.


Just adding that Vitamin E and Citric Acid are not preservatives in any way. Vitamin E is an antioxidant that will help keep oils from going rancid - which is not the same thing as bacterial or fungal contamination. Citric Acid is a ph adjuster and mild chelating agent (seperates metals in water). These can be helpful ingredients but they are not effective in any way against microbial contamination.

This condtioner is basically a cream rinse. It has some anti-static properties, but not much in the way of moisture. The minor humectants (i.e. lactic acid), are listed after the fragrance, meaning they are less than 1&#37; of the formulation. There are far superior conditioners in the same price range. Pantene will do a much better job, as will L'Oreal and Garnier (well, L'Oreal owns Garnier so it better do as good a job, right?) HTH!

[MychelleC]

I used to leave in a small amount of any conditioner that I happened to have on hand. I thought that was a good idea and doing me no harm until I came across the magazine article that said don't leave conditioner in your hair unless it is specifically a leave-in conditioner because of the reasons I stated earlier. I stopped doing that, and I'm not having as much trouble with split ends as I used to have. However, my hair dryer also broke around the same time, so maybe the improved condition is because I never blow-dry anymore.

Oh, and same with a deep treatment; not every conditioner is suitable.

The ingredients in a "leave on" and "rinse off" conditioner are the same. Leave in conditioners usually have less of the fatty/cationic/moisturizing ingredients because they can weigh hair down. Oily hair would want to use a light leave in, but dry hair can just use any regular conditioner as a leave in with no problems. For a deep treatment you usually want to find something with more oils and cationic ingredients than your daily conditioner, unless you have dry hair and regularly use an intense conditioner. If that is the case you can use that product and just add time, heat, and maybe some extra oil.

I love ingredient discussion!

[gthlvrmx]

The ingredients in a "leave on" and "rinse off" conditioner are the same. Leave in conditioners usually have less of the fatty/cationic/moisturizing ingredients because they can weigh hair down. Oily hair would want to use a light leave in, but dry hair can just use any regular conditioner as a leave in with no problems. For a deep treatment you usually want to find something with more oils and cationic ingredients than your daily conditioner, unless you have dry hair and regularly use an intense conditioner. If that is the case you can use that product and just add time, heat, and maybe some extra oil.

I love ingredient discussion!
So i suppose these ingredients are ok to leave in, seeing as it doesn't make a difference to the cuticle. And how moisturizing is this? Probably not very. The thing is that the G3Nutrion conditioner has caused more shedding than normal on me, it's a good conditioner(has the oils and all), just too much shedding...and this hair poofs so bad with any humectant :(
Now im all confused on what to use. XD
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum) Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1, 3-Diol, Tocopheryl Acetate [Vitamin E Acetate], Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Sorbitol, Algae(Algae) Extract, FD&C Green No. 3 (CL 42053), FD&C Yellow No. 5 (Cl 19140)

[Ashenputtel]

I would also vote for the coconut oil. It also dries my hair on its own.

In my case suave (ocean breeze) leaves my hair greasy. Never dried my hair. But I don't think much of it either way. Different hair have different reactions.

[cmg]

Now im all confused on what to use. XD
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum) Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1, 3-Diol, Tocopheryl Acetate [Vitamin E Acetate], Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Sorbitol, Algae(Algae) Extract, FD&C Green No. 3 (CL 42053), FD&C Yellow No. 5 (Cl 19140)

Me too. Heres a list of ingredients of another leave-in conditioner for comparison:
Aqua, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Cetrimonium Chloride, Dimethicone Copolyol, Phenoxyethanol, Benzyl Alcohol, Panthenol, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Sodium Benzoate, Propylene Glycol, Parfum, Methylparaben, Disodium EDTA, Emblica officinalis, Lactic Acid, Butylparaben, Ethylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Propylparaben, Tocopherol.

Whats the virdict on this one?