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View Full Version : silly 'cone question...



emmaya
September 13th, 2011, 01:37 AM
sorry couldn't resist the "pun"...(silly 'cone/silicone)...get it?!...nevermind. :o

Anyway, after reading more than any human should ever subject themselves to on the subject, I do have one question.

Assuming the anti-coners are correct, that silicones are "bad" because they seal out moisture/humidity, and oils and don't allow these lovely things to penetrate the hair shaft, leaving to dry up in freakish misery, wouldn't it follow then, that cones are "good" when applied to wet hair, so that they can seal IN the moisture and oils that we've just applied by washing and conditioning? The only possible problem being buildup/residue/not washing off/out and therefore blocking further absorbtion during subsequent wash/conditionings?...easy enough to solve right?

I ask, because I don't necessarily have a philosophical problem using silicones, but I'd rather not use them if I thought or knew they're really going to cause damage. I have always preferred a drop or two on my wet hair to any amount that is present in bottled conditioners....and when I go in for my annual, or sometimes once-every-two-years haircut, I am always told that my hair is in excellent shape!

annieangel149
September 13th, 2011, 01:49 AM
well cones and siliicone do not damage my hair! If however i didn't clarify once a week maybe my hair would get dry and damaged! i personally think that as long as you clarify when your hair needs it your hair would be just fine :)! just watch for build up!!

luxepiggy
September 13th, 2011, 02:31 AM
While 'cones don't work for everyone, they're absolutely not inherently bad or damaging. I'm an unabashed 'cone junkie - I even CO wash with 'cone heavy conditioners. My hair is definitely not damaged (^(oo)^)v

It's all about building an appropriate routine for your unique combination of hairtype, climate, lifestyle, length, etc.

swetiepeti
September 13th, 2011, 03:08 AM
When I swim, or plan to be out in lots of sunlight I go very heavy on the cones. One of the complaints people have is that it coats your hair. But that's the very reason I use them when I swim, especially in chlorinated pools or areas with high iron. I compare it to those plastic screen savers, only it's for my hair. That coating improves tensile strength (hence thier claims of 4x or 10x strength against breakage), and it can help keep chlorine and iron deposits out. In San Antonio Tx the iron level in water was so high that when I swapped to a cone free shampoo/conditioner my hair actually turned reddish gold, very reddish from rinsing my hair out at the pool shower after swimming (I had a filter on water at home). I had not really paid attention until it got so red that people thought I'd dyed my hair. I had to use a strong clarifying shampoo made especially to pull out chlorine and iron multiple times to strip the iron back out and I went back to my cone shampoo and conditioner until I moved to Houston where the iron level in the water is minimal.

Shesta
September 13th, 2011, 03:51 AM
emmaya, you definitely have a point here. Or at least I've been thinking over the same issue for the last couple of weeks and got to the same conclusions. My wet hair loves silicones and I can never achieve same sleekness and shine with other products. I did a few experiments to test this theory: a a point when my hair was very exhausted from sun/salt I did a DT with oils, regular shampoo wash followed by coney conditioning. This resulted in the most sleek and shiny hair I've had in ages! And it stayed like this the whole week till my next wash, which was clarifying.
Then I did exactly the same but substituted the coney conditioner with non-coney/non-protein one. The results were far less satisfying - less shine, more tangles and frizz. I also applied oils as leave in but it didn't change much.

So coneys seem to do good on my hair but still i need to experiment with more setups to verify these results. :o

celebriangel
September 13th, 2011, 05:03 AM
Not all of the conefree people think cones damage hair. Possibly if you were to get buildup and do nothing about it - some people's ends can get quite dry and crunchy and sometimes that can need to be cut off if clarifying is put off for too long - but the main reason I don't use cones is because I don't like 'em.

I don't like the feel of my hair, I don't like the greasy look I get even when my hair is not greasy, and I don't like the way they weigh down my curls.

My hair is pretty smooth, healthy and non-porous, though, so I don't need coney slip to protect my hair for detangling. If my hair were damaged, I would likely make a very different decision.

In fact, I'm considering going the piggy route and having a trial run of incorporating small amounts of amine-functionalised (light, reasonably water-soluble in some cases) cones back into my routine to see how it goes. If I don't like it, I'll just go back to being conefree.

Raiscake
September 13th, 2011, 05:16 AM
While 'cones don't work for everyone, they're absolutely not inherently bad or damaging. I'm an unabashed 'cone junkie - I even CO wash with 'cone heavy conditioners. My hair is definitely not damaged (^(oo)^)v

It's all about building an appropriate routine for your unique combination of hairtype, climate, lifestyle, length, etc.

Pretty much what she said. I love me some cones. My hair looks and feels better with it + oiling. My hair isn't damaged at all.

GRU
September 13th, 2011, 08:28 AM
For me, it's not that the cones themselves are bad, but that the way to strip them off the hair is bad -- my curly, porous hair just can't handle all that sulfate 'poo.

Going cone-free allows me to be 'poo-free -- I only shampoo my hair about once a year, and just CO-wash the rest of the time. If you take a few strands of my hair between your finger and thumb and drag down from roots to ends, you can *feel* the spot where my pre-LHC (shampoo every other day and cones every day) length starts.

If my hair could stand up to the regular use of shampoo, I wouldn't have a problem with cones -- for me, it's a decision based on what my hair needs, not some inherent badness of 'cones.

Ashenputtel
September 13th, 2011, 08:35 AM
Some people (like me) stop using them for ecological reasons. They are highly transform.

Like a lot of finey straight hair, my hair looked great with them (I still looks great without but it's more work).

However, my scalp is a million times better. It was reaction really porly to the sulfate needed to remove cones.

rowie
September 13th, 2011, 09:17 AM
For people with wavy hair like me, I generally gave up on silicone because I personally feel like it weighs my hair down. It weighs my hair down to a point where by the third week I start loosing my waves and my hair starts looking almost like a 1c, but that's just me. I did notice that when I went all natural, my hair started to feel lighter and bouncier, but the draw back is that I am more prone to frizz. Silicone does have its advantages, but for people with wavy or curly hair, I'd try to avoid it if I can.

spidermom
September 13th, 2011, 09:55 AM
I like things that weigh my bushy hair down.

I don't think cones would seal moisture completely out of your hair unless you dunked your length in silicones so that every single strand had a full coating. Otherwise you're just distributing some through your hair.

I like to use cone-free shampoo and conditioner plus a coney serum (CHI Silk Infusion) about once per week to make my hair easier to detangle. The effect lasts through the next 2-3 washings.

swearnsue
September 13th, 2011, 10:13 AM
I like to use a cone condish when I remove henna. It's so slippery it helps to get all the henna out with less shampoo.

Jenn of Pence
September 13th, 2011, 12:42 PM
Ditto on what pretty much everyone else has said. You'd have to really saturate your strands with cones to completely close off the hair shaft. ;) Cone preference is strongly correlated to hair type, either to prevent weighing down curls and waves or not over-stripping said curls and waves with the need to clarify.

In one respect, cones help prevent damage if they help you prevent tangles. It's all about perspective and the personal preference of each person. :)

AcornMystic
September 13th, 2011, 12:50 PM
I never found that cones ever did anything bad to my hair. My hair responds very well to them, but I prefer not to use them when I can help it. I went from poo and condish to CO to SO (moisturizing shampoo) to WO and now just baking soda.

I tried going back to baking soda many times but didn`t stay for long with all that I was hearing about it as being such a harsh cleaner. My sebum is very waxy, not very oily at all, (perhaps it`s my diet) so I find that using baking soda helps break up the wax in the shower that I`ve built up over the week and turns it into a form my hair can more easily be polished with using my BBB.

My hair actually feels cleaner longer too, allowing movement in my hair and the wax that I do get is more of a barrier until the next wash for each strand rather that bunching them all together. Like when I touch my hair, it`s my hair that I am feeling and not chemicals. plus I`ve grown fond of that grainy texture in my hair as I`m washing. When my hair grows longer I`ll just have to suspend my length somehow so it doesn`t wash down it. Like a scrunchy tied to the shower rack. XD I love living natural. <3

Anje
September 13th, 2011, 01:48 PM
Some people do seem to find that they seal in moisture nicely. Personally, I find that even if I use a silicone conditioner or apply serum to wet hair, my hair ends up feeling dried out after 2-3 days and it doesn't feel that way if I don't use them. Something about them (maybe the volatile 'cones?) is drying for my hair. Furthermore, washing with sulfates to get them out again is drying for me too, makes my scalp feel tight, and contributes to the frizzy halo thing I already have going. So I think I'm better off avoiding silicones. If your experiences with them are more positive than mine, I have no objections to you using them.

Badwolf
September 13th, 2011, 02:10 PM
The only reason I don't use cones is because I don't use shampoo to clean my hair. I stopped using shampoo several years ago, but still used conditioners with cones in them. It wasn't until about a year and a half ago, when I cut out all cones, that my hair actually started to look healthy, happy, and curly.

I don't think cones are necessarily bad, but everyone's hair likes different things to make it look and feel its best.

emmaya
September 14th, 2011, 12:54 AM
thanks all! seems like there is plenty of room for balanced opinions on the matter, its just hard to find them!

I see a lot of my own 'cone experience repeated here... like some, I do notice heaviness after a few weeks, but since I'm using shampoo bars, I use either neutrogena anti-residue shampoo once a month or H&S once a month to "strip" or treat my scalp and my hair doesn't seem to object. I also notice my hair is fluffy and more wavy when I don't use them, so I opt for a few drops of jojoba or camelia oil when I am in the mood for bigger hair or need it to be grippier for an up-do! Also, now that I'm using shampoo bars, I don't wash as often and I do notice that the ends don't feel very good nearing the next wash day...could be the volatile 'cones are evaporating and stealing my hair's natural moisture? (just like alcohol does on the skin!)

So what's unnatural about 'cones? I thought they were a byproduct of glass-production and made from earth-sourced silicates...

AcornMystic
September 14th, 2011, 01:11 AM
So what's unnatural about 'cones? I thought they were a byproduct of glass-production and made from earth-sourced silicates...

Quotes and the links containing them below.

"modern science has advanced the hair conditioner industry to include those made with silicone, fatty alcohols, and quaternary ammonium compounds. These chemical products allow the benefits of hair conditioner without feeling greasy or heavy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_conditioner

"Silicones are polymers that include silicon together with carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and sometimes other chemical elements. Some common forms include silicone oil, silicone grease, silicone rubber, and silicone resin."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone

I hope these answer your question.

emmaya
September 14th, 2011, 01:34 AM
I hope these answer your question.

yup. lotta HCl runnin' around in the 'cone production facilities eh? ew. :(

Chetanlaiho
September 14th, 2011, 06:12 AM
For people with wavy hair like me, I generally gave up on silicone because I personally feel like it weighs my hair down. It weighs my hair down to a point where by the third week I start loosing my waves and my hair starts looking almost like a 1c, but that's just me. I did notice that when I went all natural, my hair started to feel lighter and bouncier, but the draw back is that I am more prone to frizz. Silicone does have its advantages, but for people with wavy or curly hair, I'd try to avoid it if I can.

This, I considered going back to cones for the last few dry inches, but I'm loving the wurls I'm getting since I quit cones :)

PinkyCat
September 14th, 2011, 08:19 AM
For me, it's not that the cones themselves are bad, but that the way to strip them off the hair is bad -- my curly, porous hair just can't handle all that sulfate 'poo.

Going cone-free allows me to be 'poo-free -- I only shampoo my hair about once a year, and just CO-wash the rest of the time. If you take a few strands of my hair between your finger and thumb and drag down from roots to ends, you can *feel* the spot where my pre-LHC (shampoo every other day and cones every day) length starts.

If my hair could stand up to the regular use of shampoo, I wouldn't have a problem with cones -- for me, it's a decision based on what my hair needs, not some inherent badness of 'cones.

This. Me. Exactly. ;)

sarahbrownie
September 14th, 2011, 09:22 AM
Depends, if you have a humectant in the shampoo it can help draw in moisture. Great for us frizzy heads. :D