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Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 09:51 AM
Hey girls!
I was just thinking: oil does NOT moisturise by itself, right? It just creates a "film" , a barier, that keeps the moisture into your hair.

So i totally understand applying a small quantity of it AFTER you have washed and moisturised your hair! It keeps the moisture from the conditioner you already used on the shower "in" the hair.

But what is the point of using it as a pre-wash treatment? Theoretically it would make more sence to....let's say... apply a conditioner as a pre-wash treatment, so that your hair will soak in it.
What is the logic of applying oil, since no moisturising ingredient is already there??

Wavelength
September 10th, 2011, 09:54 AM
Depends on the oil. Some oils do penetrate the hairshaft (coconut being an example).

http://www.healthy-oil-planet.com/coconut-oil-dry-hair.html

Roseate
September 10th, 2011, 09:59 AM
Pre-wash oiling is to protect your hair from damage during the washing process, to prevent protein loss that otherwise occurs during washing. Link to a study about this effect. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094)

ericthegreat
September 10th, 2011, 10:09 AM
Oils themselves do not moisturize your hair. Only actual WATER moisturizes your hair. What a particular oil will do is bond to the surface of your hair and create a natural film or barrier around the hair strand. Because of this, oiling your hair is ONLY EFFECTIVE when your hair underneath is already moisturized, and then you apply the coat of oil over the moisturized hair. Otherwise, if you put oil and totally dry, parched hair, you are in fact making things worse because you are sealing OUT water from penetrating your hair strands.

julierockhead
September 10th, 2011, 10:14 AM
Oils themselves do not moisturize your hair. Only actual WATER moisturizes your hair. What a particular oil will do is bond to the surface of your hair and create a natural film or barrier around the hair strand. Because of this, oiling your hair is ONLY EFFECTIVE when your hair underneath is already moisturized, and then you apply the coat of oil over the moisturized hair. Otherwise, if you put oil and totally dry, parched hair, you are in fact making things worse because you are sealing OUT water from penetrating your hair strands.

I was gonna chime in, but ericthegreat must know - I mean, look at that HAIR! The man is certainly doing something right.

spidermom
September 10th, 2011, 10:21 AM
There was a thread not long ago about adding oil to the shampoo because ingredients in the shampoo help the oil to penetrate the hair shaft. That's why I pre-oil, so that shampooing my hair does not dry it out.

Also, to moisturize, you need BOTH water and oil. Neither one will do the job without the other.

11eleven
September 10th, 2011, 10:27 AM
I have to respectfully disagree to the comment that using oils on extremely dry hair can in fact cause more damage. I had horrible hair that was dyed and bleached to death. Incredibly dry and breaking off. I started doing overnight pre-poo coconut oil treatments about three years ago with only about 4 trims of an inch and have managed to grow hip length healthy, shiny, thick, lusterous hair. There is still some damage at the ends but not very noticable at all. Coconut oil works wonders even on dry hair.

Hiriel
September 10th, 2011, 10:29 AM
I have to respectfully disagree to the comment that using oils on extremely dry hair can in fact cause more damage. I had horrible hair that was dyed and bleached to death. Incredibly dry and breaking off. I started doing overnight pre-poo coconut oil treatments about three years ago with only about 4 trims of an inch and have managed to grow hip length healthy, shiny, thick, lusterous hair. There is still some damage at the ends but not very noticable at all. Coconut oil works wonders even on dry hair.

But coconut oil does penetrate the hair, rather than just coating it :)

Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Oils themselves do not moisturize your hair. Only actual WATER moisturizes your hair. What a particular oil will do is bond to the surface of your hair and create a natural film or barrier around the hair strand. Because of this, oiling your hair is ONLY EFFECTIVE when your hair underneath is already moisturized, and then you apply the coat of oil over the moisturized hair. Otherwise, if you put oil and totally dry, parched hair, you are in fact making things worse because you are sealing OUT water from penetrating your hair strands.


Ericthegreat , that's exactly what i was thinking....i mean i'm only a newby, i don't know much, but this is simple logic! Since there's not much moisture there to "lock it in", what's the point?

Even if coconut oil penetrates the hair .... what does it do when it gets there? Wouldn't it make more sense to put a good conditioner as a pre-wash treatment, let your hair absorb as much as it can and then AFTER you shampoo and possibly condition again, THEN put the oil in to "lock" everything?

Besides that....is coconut oil desolved by your shampoo, so when you use your water based mask/conditioner, it will actually penetrate the hair and moisturise it? Or does it build up and make your hair moisture-less?

I'm not trying to say that what you guys do is wrong, after all you all seem to have the most beautifull hair.... but since i'm a mathematician i'm asking for a reasonable explanation hahaha!!

UltraBella
September 10th, 2011, 10:44 AM
Oil can moisturize your skin, so why not hair ? After all, our own skin produces oil. Our sebaceous glands are very important !
I agree with SPIDERMOM, you must have oil and water. I use jojoba oil to moisturize my face, but I wet my face with warm water first. If I apply it dry, I have an oily disaster. Applied to damp skin it is heaven.
When I oil my hair I apply it to damp hair. My hair will fully absorb the oil, so it's not just coating the hair shaft.

halo_tightens
September 10th, 2011, 10:50 AM
Even if coconut oil penetrates the hair .... what does it do when it gets there? Wouldn't it make more sense to put a good conditioner as a pre-wash treatment, let your hair absorb as much as it can and then AFTER you shampoo and possibly condition again, THEN put the oil in to "lock" everything?

Besides that....is coconut oil desolved by your shampoo, so when you use your water based mask/conditioner, it will actually penetrate the hair and moisturise it? Or does it build up and make your hair moisture-less?


The answer really is this:


Pre-wash oiling is to protect your hair from damage during the washing process, to prevent protein loss that otherwise occurs during washing. Link to a study about this effect. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094)

Pre-wash oiling isn't really so much about moisture. It's for protection against protein loss during the upcoming wash.

danacc
September 10th, 2011, 10:51 AM
I've puzzled over this, too, and I have a different question. What do we mean by moisturize in the context of hair?

Let me explain a little. I understand how applying moisturizers or barriers like oil to skin helps it stay hydrated. After all, skin is alive and served by blood vessels, and so has a constant source of moisture. Protecting it from the environment or adding something that attracts water to it is therefore helpful.

Hair is not alive. It has no moisture source other than its immediate environment. Oil will act as a diffuser, meaning that it will make moisture in the hair evaporate more slowly, and moisture not in the hair penetrate more slowly. But I know if I put oil on my hair, and then get in the shower, my hair still gets wet. And I know if I wet my hair, and then put oil, it will still get dry. Eventually, my hair's moisture will match the humidity of the environment. Unless, of course, I wet it with water again.

Add to this the complication that wet hair (and by this I mean quite wet) is weaker than dry hair. Water weakens hair, which is not what I generally want. I think a little humidity helps--but this level of humidity is generally found in the air where I am, so I'm not sure why I'd want to add water to my hair. It seems this would just make it "too wet" and cross over into the weakness realm.

They way I've justified it in my mind is that by "moisturize", most people really mean "add suppleness". And oil does this for my hair. But I'm not sure if I'm missing something on the whole conversation of "moisturizing" that others have.


Back to the OP--I don't oil pre-wash to moisturize. I oil pre-wash to prevent protein loss and protect the hair from too much stripping when I use shampoo. Coconut oil has been scientifically shown to have this effect. I'm definitely not interested in "moisturizing" as in adding water shortly before I shower. I'm going to get it very moisturized (wet!) as soon as I step in. I add oil occasionally once my hair is dry to add suppleness.

irishlady
September 10th, 2011, 10:56 AM
Glad I read this thread, now I know why my hair is dryer than normal probably :rolleyes:Silly me, I'll try putting my coconut oil on damp hair instead :)

ericthegreat
September 10th, 2011, 11:03 AM
Alright guys, to clear up the confusion, when I said moisturized I didn't mean "soaking wet straight out of the shower" hair. What I meant was hair that is still slightly damp or about halfway thro the process of air-drying.

Here is my normal routine. I'll CO wash my hair like usual, and after I'm finished with my shower I'll go do all the other things in my life while waiting for my hair to air-dry. When my hair is halfway dry or about 3/4th dry, and I can STILL definitely feel that my hair is slightly damp, THAT'S WHEN I apply a small amount of oil over it.

Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 11:05 AM
First off, the water DOESN'T weaken the hair! The reason your hair is more fragile when it's wet is because the hair cells (cells is not the right word, but English is not my matternal language, so i don't know the right term for it) absorbs the water and therefor loses its elesticity, JUST for the time being!

@ halo_tightens yes, but if your hair does not get properly cleaned by your shampoo(a mild shampoo), then HOW will they absorb the moisture you add by using conditioner?

Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Ow, an addition to that: if you CO wash, is your conditioner able to dessolve the extra junk that's in your hair, so that they are clean and able to absorb?

ktani
September 10th, 2011, 11:13 AM
According to research on oil and hair, the effect of moisture retention is mostly attributed to oil on the surface of the hair. For that alone, many oils would be sufficient, although some like drying ones can be difficult to remove and cause problems.

Coconut oil has other benefits as well that can make it a much better choice.

ericthegreat
September 10th, 2011, 11:15 AM
Ow, an addition to that: if you CO wash, is your conditioner able to dessolve the extra junk that's in your hair, so that they are clean and able to absorb?

Well here's the thing. You actually DON'T want your hair to be completely squeaky clean and dissolved of everything...........healthy hair needs a proper balance of lipids (fat oils) and water. Shampoos are often way too harsh on your hair because they overclean and strip out everything from your hair. That's why sulfate-free and gentle moisturizing shampoos are preferable if you do use shampoo as your washing routine.

For me personally, I personally love the silky soft, shiny smoothness that washing my hair only with conditioner gives me. With shampoo, my hair was noticeably drier and felt slightly rougher to the touch so that's why I stopped. I now only use shampoo about once month to clarify my hair, and even on the actual days that I do clarify my hair, I will follow up the shampoo with a huge amount of my conditioner.

danacc
September 10th, 2011, 11:17 AM
First off, the water DOESN'T weaken the hair! The reason your hair is more fragile when it's wet is because the hair cells (cells is not the right word, but English is not my matternal language, so i don't know the right term for it) absorbs the water and therefor loses its elesticity, JUST for the time being!

@ halo_tightens yes, but if your hair does not get properly cleaned by your shampoo(a mild shampoo), then HOW will they absorb the moisture you add by using conditioner?

Yes, but that weakening is my point. If water absorption causes it to lose elasticity while it is wet, then obviously there is some point at which the amount of "wetness" is undesirable. So, moisture is good until it is too much moisture at which point it makes the hair fragile until evaporation does its thing and it is less moist.

This implies that if the humidity of the surrounding air is within the range of moisture the hair likes, then there's no need to "moisturize". If the humidity is too low, you'll need to add water, and once it evaporates, you'll need to do so again. Oil can slow the evaporation but won't stop it.

At least that's my understanding. Or am I missing something?

moon2dove
September 10th, 2011, 11:23 AM
This is all so confusing and conflicting. I thought Coconut oil penetrated the hair follicles/shaft??
What dose Argan oil do?
Help a confused newbie!!!! :(

Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 11:29 AM
Well here's the thing. You actually DON'T want your hair to be completely squeaky clean and dissolved of everything...........healthy hair needs a proper balance of lipids (fat oils) and water. Shampoos are often way too harsh on your hair because they overclean and strip out everything from your hair. That's why sulfate-free and gentle moisturizing shampoos are preferable if you do use shampoo as your washing routine.

For me personally, I personally love the silky soft, shiny smoothness that washing my hair only with conditioner gives me. With shampoo, my hair was noticeably drier and felt slightly rougher to the touch so that's why I stopped. I now only use shampoo about once month to clarify my hair, and even on the actual days that I do clarify my hair, I will follow up the shampoo with a huge amount of my conditioner.

I would totally understand CO washing your hair if you didn't use any kind of oil! Then you keep adding moisture to it, and it "never leaves you" (hahaha) because you don't wash it away!

But if you are using oils.......let me explain how i see it and then tell me where i'm wrong:


*Let's theoretically start with perfectly clean , virgin hair.
*Your "scalp" produces oil PLUS you use conditioner on your hair, so your hair is perfectly smooth and moisturised.
So far so good!



*BUT* then you use an oil on your hair. The oil creates a film around it and keeps the moisture in for the most part....

* Here is the problem: the next time you are in your shower and you use your conditioner ,
- since there's already oil in your hair and as we know oil and water don't dessolve ,
-and since you are not using a shampoo to get rid and dessolve that oil "shield" your hair has..........then how does your hair absorb the conditioner?

halo_tightens
September 10th, 2011, 11:30 AM
@ halo_tightens yes, but if your hair does not get properly cleaned by your shampoo(a mild shampoo), then HOW will they absorb the moisture you add by using conditioner?

Ahhh, but moisture is water, right-- not conditioner? ;)

Sorry.:o

Seriously, moisture IS water. And conditioners aren't all the same. Some of them contain humectants to draw more moisture in from the air, some contain oils or silicones to seal in the existing moisture... and you already know all of that. And I totally agree with this bit from Eric:


Well here's the thing. You actually DON'T want your hair to be completely squeaky clean and dissolved of everything...........healthy hair needs a proper balance of lipids (fat oils) and water. Shampoos are often way too harsh on your hair because they overclean and strip out everything from your hair. That's why sulfate-free and gentle moisturizing shampoos are preferable if you do use shampoo as your washing routine.


Why overstrip? Hair is happier with a little oil, its own variety or the ones we add.

I think hair can be "properly cleaned" without being stripped of every bit of its oil.

:shrug: I'm no expert.

halo_tightens
September 10th, 2011, 11:31 AM
and since you are not using a shampoo to get rid and dessolve that oil "shield" your hair has..........then then how does your hair absorb the conditioner?

Conditioner is, surprisingly, really darn good at removing excess oils from hair, as many of our CO-washing members have been happy to learn! :)

danacc
September 10th, 2011, 11:36 AM
...
-and since you are not using a shampoo to get rid and dessolve that oil "shield" your hair has..........then how does your hair absorb the conditioner?

Conditioners used for CO are quite good at removing oil. Generally, they are better at it than shampoo.

moon2dove
September 10th, 2011, 11:39 AM
@Buffy
I use Rhassoul clay to start. I then use conditioner on the length. I take the excess water out with a t shirt then I add some Argan oil. I only light oil though.
I also light oil ends at night. :)
I thought the clay would 'dissolve any residue/remmnents of oil/dirt ect..???
Should I use Rhassoul clay at every wash day, I wonder?
Am I stripping my hair too much?

Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 11:40 AM
@halo_tightens (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=22838)

1) Moisture is not water in it's pure form. No matter how much water you put on your dry face, it won't get oily. :p
Conditioner with its chemicals (hey i can't explain more , i'm a mathematician, to a chemisist haha) does the trick! And of course i mean a mild, water based conditioner without silicones

2) THAT'S what i asked Eric earlier! If conditioner can actually "disolve" the oil!

xoxophelia
September 10th, 2011, 11:43 AM
I've puzzled over this, too, and I have a different question. What do we mean by moisturize in the context of hair?


Let me explain a little. I understand how applying moisturizers or barriers like oil to skin helps it stay hydrated. After all, skin is alive and served by blood vessels, and so has a constant source of moisture. Protecting it from the environment or adding something that attracts water to it is therefore helpful.


Hair is not alive. It has no moisture source other than its immediate environment. Oil will act as a diffuser, meaning that it will make moisture in the hair evaporate more slowly, and moisture not in the hair penetrate more slowly. But I know if I put oil on my hair, and then get in the shower, my hair still gets wet. And I know if I wet my hair, and then put oil, it will still get dry. Eventually, my hair's moisture will match the humidity of the environment. Unless, of course, I wet it with water again.


Add to this the complication that wet hair (and by this I mean quite wet) is weaker than dry hair. Water weakens hair, which is not what I generally want. I think a little humidity helps--but this level of humidity is generally found in the air where I am, so I'm not sure why I'd want to add water to my hair. It seems this would just make it "too wet" and cross over into the weakness realm.


They way I've justified it in my mind is that by "moisturize", most people really mean "add suppleness". And oil does this for my hair. But I'm not sure if I'm missing something on the whole conversation of "moisturizing" that others have.



Back to the OP--I don't oil pre-wash to moisturize. I oil pre-wash to prevent protein loss and protect the hair from too much stripping when I use shampoo. Coconut oil has been scientifically shown to have this effect. I'm definitely not interested in "moisturizing" as in adding water shortly before I shower. I'm going to get it very moisturized (wet!) as soon as I step in. I add oil occasionally once my hair is dry to add suppleness.


This is exactly right (coming from a chem student a few classes away from my degree)

Mrspuddinhead
September 10th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Glad I read this thread, now I know why my hair is dryer than normal probably :rolleyes:Silly me, I'll try putting my coconut oil on damp hair instead :)

Well you can consider me to be silly too. The other night I did a mayonnaise treatment. Well....I applied it to dry hair. I'm still learning about hair care and had followed the directions from the google site.. It was so oily I had to wash it twice, yet it did add the shine and softness I was looking for. Now I know to dampen my hair first and half the amount of mayo. Thank you oh wise and knowledgeable LHC members. :)

TrudieCat
September 10th, 2011, 11:54 AM
Conditioners used for CO are quite good at removing oil. Generally, they are better at it than shampoo.

This. :) Oil dissolves oil, and then friction will allow it all to get wiped away. True story. In printmaking, for example, oil-based inks are removed from plates by the application of more oil. This is true for oil-based paints as well - if you put oil-based paint on a non-porous surface like glass, one of the easiest ways to remove it is by rubbing a carrier oil into it using a cloth. The carrier oil and the oil-based paint will come up on the cloth. There will be a thin film of oil left behind, but that's good for hair since it will protect the strands and reduce friction between them that might cause damage.

Also, Buffy, I think you might be over-thinking this. :) Oils that don't penetrate the hair shaft, like jojoba, still won't completely coat the hair strand entirely in such a way as to completely block it from accepting all moisture. I know this from personal experience since I use a ton of jojoba oil and my hair soaks up conditioner applied to dry hair *after* I've put jojoba oil on it.

If you spent the time to diligently rub a thick layer of non-absorbing oil over each and every bit of each and every strand of your hair, then you might actually truly seal the hair. But that's basically impossible; you would have to dip your hair into a bucket of oil! :p

danacc
September 10th, 2011, 12:08 PM
@halo_tightens (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=22838)

1) Moisture is not water in it's pure form. No matter how much water you put on your dry face, it won't get oily. :p
Conditioner with its chemicals (hey i can't explain more , i'm a mathematician, to a chemisist haha) does the trick! And of course i mean a mild, water based conditioner without silicones

...

Buffy, I think part of the confusion may be an understanding of what "moisture" and "moisturize" mean. Moisture is water in it's pure form. Moisture is not oil. Putting water on your dry face moisturizes. Putting oil on your face gets it oily.

Conditioner "moisturizes" because it has water as an ingredient, and has other ingredients that affect water. It either affects water by leaving behind a diffuser like oil or silicone, or it affects water by putting a humectant (water-attracter) on the surface of the hair.

Moisturize means to add water. You don't "need" conditioner to moisturize. You do need water to do so.

Buffy
September 10th, 2011, 12:08 PM
@moon2dove Honey, unfortunately i don't know :( I don't know if and what dissolves the oil you put on your hair. That's why i made this post , to clear things out...

danacc
September 10th, 2011, 12:11 PM
Oh, and conditioner does other things besides its effects on water. Generally speaking, it smooths, adds slip, and protects as well, but these things are separate from "moisturizing".

ktani
September 10th, 2011, 02:08 PM
This. :) Oil dissolves oil, and then friction will allow it all to get wiped away. True story. In printmaking, for example, oil-based inks are removed from plates by the application of more oil. This is true for oil-based paints as well - if you put oil-based paint on a non-porous surface like glass, one of the easiest ways to remove it is by rubbing a carrier oil into it using a cloth. The carrier oil and the oil-based paint will come up on the cloth. There will be a thin film of oil left behind, but that's good for hair since it will protect the strands and reduce friction between them that might cause damage.

Also, Buffy, I think you might be over-thinking this. :) Oils that don't penetrate the hair shaft, like jojoba, still won't completely coat the hair strand entirely in such a way as to completely block it from accepting all moisture. I know this from personal experience since I use a ton of jojoba oil and my hair soaks up conditioner applied to dry hair *after* I've put jojoba oil on it.

If you spent the time to diligently rub a thick layer of non-absorbing oil over each and every bit of each and every strand of your hair, then you might actually truly seal the hair. But that's basically impossible; you would have to dip your hair into a bucket of oil! :p

True!

Nail polish can remove nail polish as well. I have done that and then wiped off both coats (the last one wet), with a paper towel.

It has been shown in research that water vapour can still access hair through oil, although that is slowed by the oil and some oils do that better than others.

Even though silicone is supposed to prevent frizz applied to hair, most do not do that at all. There are different silicone weights and some allow moisture to access hair very well.

Most shampoos, including sulfate ones do not strip the hair of all lipids. Many have ingredients in them that can help hair retain some moisture (water) and help hair comb easier (quaternium compounds) and more.

ktani
September 10th, 2011, 03:09 PM
There are many hair myths, among them, that shampoos are all stripping and drying and weaken hair - false, and that oils choke hair off from moisture - false.

Silicone does not seal hair either. It can to some degree, like some oils can - through overuse.

Wax build-up can be more effective in causing dry hair than people realize. Just check out the "crunchy ends" threads here on these boards and the replies after clarifying has been done and the only things overused were conditioners, without silicones!

Most conditioners contain wax - cetearyl alcohol - also called emulsifying wax - and other waxy ingredients.

deko
September 10th, 2011, 03:53 PM
So I am doing something right :)

I wash my hair with normal shampoo every other day (I use CWC). I use black seed oil to my face every day (after wash, moist face) and I wipe the remaining oil to my ends. I wet them first.

I don't really understand the pre-wash oiling, I prefer washing with normal conditioners. I may add little oil to my condish, but I don't use all oil to the first C.

- almost waist!!! -

deko
September 10th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Sorry, my web acts quite funny...

Lianna
September 10th, 2011, 04:06 PM
Another trait of oil (even the ones that don't penetrate) is being an emollient. So you get softer hair even without water.

ktani
September 10th, 2011, 04:27 PM
I have Ruth Winter's Cosmetic Dictionary. In it she refers to a study that demonstrated that oil does not soften skin.

Researchers placed a piece of calloused skin in oil for something like 2 years. It did not get softer. They placed a similar piece of skin in water and it did get soft, fairly quickly.

Moisture, not oil softens hair. Oil can help keep it moisturized.

ETA: Dry hair as in dry to the touch, is not without moisture or water content. Oiling hair that is dry can help maintain the water level in it and on damp hair, maintain extra water not yet evaporated, while still allowing water vapour to access it.

ktani
September 10th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Moisturizing shampoos and conditioners contain extra coatings to slow water evaporation like oil can, to keep more water in the hair following it getting wet.

ETA: and usually humectetants to also draw water from the air.

QMacrocarpa
September 10th, 2011, 07:05 PM
I can't answer the question about prewash oiling; personally I oil my ends a bit when they're dry, as in not on wash day at all. If they're oiled while damp, my hair becomes stringy and appears greasy. I don't know if I would call the effect of oiling my ends "moisturizing" (add me to the crowd that doesn't really understand that term in the context of hair) but it seems to be somewhat protective, postponing the instantly-tangled splitty ends which mean it's time for me to trim.

Mamakash
September 10th, 2011, 08:17 PM
Maybe "moisturize" is the wrong word to use in connection with hair. Moisturize is used more in reference to skin . . . skin as an organ has both the ability to perspire and oil itself and often benefits from products that simulate those properties. Hair is dry and has no real way of moisturizing(wetting) itself, the scalp can only secrete oil and spread it down the hair shaft. Hair never stays moist, once it's dry, it's dry. I used to wash and condition my hair after two days more to soften, or moisturize the ends. But since co washing and oiling both scalp and ends, it's never "dry". The shampoos were drying my hair and the conditioners never "moisturized" my hair enough to combat this. The conditioner wash is never harsh enough to remove too much oil and the coconut based oils penetrate and protect my hair from the next wash. It's much more effective than traditional "western" hair care.

julierockhead
September 10th, 2011, 08:39 PM
If you spent the time to diligently rub a thick layer of non-absorbing oil over each and every bit of each and every strand of your hair, then you might actually truly seal the hair. But that's basically impossible; you would have to dip your hair into a bucket of oil! :p

Hmmmmmmm.
*Weights a 16oz container of coconut oil in her hand, wondering how much it would take to fill a bucket*

Mairéad
September 10th, 2011, 08:48 PM
Now I'm even more confused. I know that it was truly water that put moisture in the hair, but I've also heard that coconut oil penetrates the hair shaft and now I have no clue of exactly what that means.

julliams
September 10th, 2011, 09:20 PM
@halo_tightens (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=22838)


2) THAT'S what i asked Eric earlier! If conditioner can actually "disolve" the oil!

It must because when I do an oil soak (and I mean completely soak my hair in oil, braid it and then go to bed), I slather my hair with conditioner the next day which must break down the oil because when I wash out, my hair is not oily at all but totally clean.

If the oil soak didn't work on my hair, then I wouldn't have repeated it. But I do find that my hair is very much softer and more moisturised when I do this. So I guess I'm happy with "I don't know why it works but it does". If I think about it too much, it confuses me as well.

julierockhead
September 10th, 2011, 09:20 PM
Do Not Panic. Walk, Do Not Run, To Your Nearest Hair Oil Container. Apply To Ends, Repeat After Me: "My Routine Works For Me, My Routine Works For Me..."

danacc
September 10th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Do Not Panic. Walk, Do Not Run, To Your Nearest Hair Oil Container. Apply To Ends, Repeat After Me: "My Routine Works For Me, My Routine Works For Me..."

:cheese:This. "Moisturizing" or not, my ends love oil!:cheese:

spidermom
September 10th, 2011, 10:17 PM
Hair is made up of more kinds of molecules than merely keratin. There's oxygen and hydrogen (= water) and essential fatty acids. As the ends get older, molecules erode away, and when the hair absorbs coconut oil, it means that the coconut oil molecules are the right size to fit into the spaces left by the eroded essential fatty acids. It reinforces the natural structure, making hair more pliable.

I hate oiling clean, damp hair because it attracts all kinds of dust and lint to my hair, causing a lot of tangling. I like oiling before a wash and applying a coney leave-in to clean hair.

Cassie 123
September 10th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Hair is made up of more kinds of molecules that merely keratin. There's oxygen and hydrogen (= water) and essential fatty acids. As the ends get older, molecules erode away, and when the hair absorbs coconut oil, it means that the coconut oil molecules are the right size to fit into the spaces left by the eroded essential fatty acids. It reinforces the natural structure, making hair more pliable.

Exactly this. In addition, there are water-binding molecules (humectants) naturally present in hair, and these get eroded away too, which makes it harder for hair to hold on to the right amount of water once it dries after washing. Conditioners almost always include humectants to replace those that have been lost. Some work better than others.

Also, perfectly natural virgin hair that has never been shampooed has a thin layer of sebum covering it all the way to the ends. This helps protect the various molecules in hair from being eroded away. But most people sacrifice this outer protective layer in favor of a sense of cleanliness. So conditioners deposit some molecules there on the outside of the hair, and then we also add a few drops of oil (or some 'cones), as replacement sebum. This doesn't do a lot to seal water in or out, but it slows down the loss of all the things we want to keep: water, humectant molecules, and pieces of the keratin itself.

Lianna
September 10th, 2011, 11:21 PM
But most people sacrifice this outer protective layer in favor of a sense of cleanliness.

I actually use shampoo because I get way less hair growth while on CO, and I did that for months. Isn't a "sense of cleanliness", some people do need that level of clean (which the CO'ers tolerate/have no problems with). You word it like the shampoo'ers are made fools by the industry. CO isn't for everyone.

Cassie 123
September 10th, 2011, 11:26 PM
I actually use shampoo because I get way less hair growth while on CO, and I did that for months. Isn't a "sense of cleanliness", some people do need that level of clean (which the CO'ers tolerate/have no problems with). You word it like the shampoo'ers are made fools by the industry. CO isn't for everyone.

Oy, sorry, I wrote it that way because I was afraid just writing "cleanliness" would offend the WO folk! I wouldn't want to be without my clarifying shampoo, either!

Lianna
September 10th, 2011, 11:33 PM
Oy, sorry, I wrote it that way because I was afraid just writing "cleanliness" would offend the WO folk! I wouldn't want to be without my clarifying shampoo, either!

I've done WO a while too. I guess we should be careful not to offend any "type" of LHC'er, which is a drag, LOL. :grouphug:

renarok
September 11th, 2011, 12:39 AM
I think the OP is over thinking. There is no one true method that works for everyone. I think she (or he) should experiment like the rest of us have to find what works best for her/him. I have settled after many years of trial and error on CO on my length, Nioxin shampoo on my scalp, and a good moisturizing conditioner to follow. I am looking mainly for the slip and protection I feel I get from it. Detangling without conditioning is no fun. I use my most favorite oil blend almost daily on the last 12 to 18 inches because it makes my hair happy. I don't usually do a prewash oiling because by the time I wash again I feel that there is probably a sufficient amt. of oil already in my hair.

julierockhead
September 11th, 2011, 01:48 AM
Oy, sorry, I wrote it that way because I was afraid just writing "cleanliness" would offend the WO folk! I wouldn't want to be without my clarifying shampoo, either!

Sometimes it's hard to say exactly what you want to say, you think you have all bases covered but you end up pissing in someone's cereal bowl anyway!

nellreno
September 11th, 2011, 01:54 AM
Whether it doesn't penetrate the hair or not, I don't really care. *I* notice a difference between when I oil my hair and when I don't, that's good enough for me.

Alun
September 11th, 2011, 02:13 AM
Girls? :confused: :rolleyes: :shrug:

McFearless
September 11th, 2011, 02:13 AM
I have to respectfully disagree to the comment that using oils on extremely dry hair can in fact cause more damage. I had horrible hair that was dyed and bleached to death. Incredibly dry and breaking off. I started doing overnight pre-poo coconut oil treatments about three years ago with only about 4 trims of an inch and have managed to grow hip length healthy, shiny, thick, lusterous hair. There is still some damage at the ends but not very noticable at all. Coconut oil works wonders even on dry hair.

I agree.
Some members also use oil as a pre-poo as the first part of their CWC wash. The oil creates a barrier between shampoo and helps keep the hair healthy.

Cassie 123
September 11th, 2011, 08:54 AM
Sometimes it's hard to say exactly what you want to say, you think you have all bases covered but you end up pissing in someone's cereal bowl anyway!

:spitting: That's quite a metaphor!

Pissing aside, I love threads like this. Overthinking is my favorite hobby! :cheese:

Buffy
September 11th, 2011, 08:57 AM
@renarok and the rest.

Yes , maybe i am indeed overthinking, but i've learned to question everything i do and find a reasonable explanation on why i do it! That's why i asked you guys, because i thought maybe you knew better than me. I wasn't trying to tell you that what you do is wrong....i just explained the way I think of it and asked your thoughts about it. :)

Mike
September 11th, 2011, 11:10 AM
If coconut oil is so good then why does a coconut shell have dry scalp and hair? (jk):eyebrows:

SimplyViki
September 11th, 2011, 11:44 AM
I don't care if oil moisturizes, greases, lubes, or coats. It adds shine and softness to my hair, and I like that effect, so I keep doing it. :shrug: The mechanics of it don't interest me.

katienoonan
September 11th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Girls? :confused: :rolleyes: :shrug:



Heeheehee! Aaaaww!


:waltz:

We mustn't forget about our beardy male members!

Safira
September 11th, 2011, 12:25 PM
I don´t actually care about moisturizing. For moisture, I use conditioner. I oil because it is easier to comb my hair, oil adds softness and shine. And I believe that it´s good to wash oil away sometimes.

luxepiggy
September 12th, 2011, 10:21 AM
Heeheehee! Aaaaww!


:waltz:

We mustn't forget about our beardy male members!

What about the piggies? (^(oo)^)

Rosetta
September 12th, 2011, 10:42 AM
Pre-wash oiling isn't really so much about moisture. It's for protection against protein loss during the upcoming wash.
Yes, and I'd even say that it isn't at all about moisturizing - oils don't generally moisturize (as such), imo much better word would be "nourishing". Using oils, esp. pre-wash, is about nourishing & strengthening hair, plus protecting, as has been said above.

teal
September 12th, 2011, 12:58 PM
This is a fascinating thread! :thumbsup: