damage=more waves/curls?

[maskedrose]

As my completely virgin (I used to highlight the canopy), well cared for 6 inches grows longer and longer, it seems to not have as much wave as my damaged (from medication and chemicals) length. Has anyone else noticed that their virgin hair has less wave than the damaged parts?

Most of it right now (uncombed, not like my siggy) is 2b/2c, while the top seems to be more of a 2a. However, the bottom layers (virgin, but bad quality due to some high powered meds) are the curliest, so maybe they will stay that way after all the damage is gone?

Any input?

[teela1978]

My virgin hair has much less wave than my dyed hair did. I used to have 2c waves with a few spirals. Those moved down my head, and once chopped off were gone forever. My virgin hair is more 1c/2a-ish, it shows some wave potential while damp, but it just looks messy once dry. I've taken to coming it out while damp and wearing it straightish.

[squiggyflop]

i noticed this... my heavily damaged ends are alot wavyer than my henna only parts

[chloeishere]

I've kind of noticed it in individual hairs-- I have some hairs that are coarser, where they were dyed and color-stripped, they have really weird, unhealthy feeling waves. Like a complete S in maybe 2 inches, which is nothing like my natural wave pattern-- they also tend to be coarse and rough, reflect light weirdly (like, it will be shiny in one area and not in the other, but when rotated it will be shiny in the opposite way... that's not understandable, is it?), and are darker than most of my hair. When I find them, I cut off the part that is rougher and damaged (generally 3-5 inches up) and leave the rest. I like my coarsies, just not the damaged areas!

Otherwise, I have not noticed that being the case for me.

[Curlsgirl]

Hmmmm, mine is the opposite. Since my hair has gotten healthier from stopping the heat, it is curlier. My roots have always been straighter than the rest, that's just my hairtype and it changes with seasons, length and products I use but with the better care of it I have definitely gotten prettier and better spirals overall. I get a LOT less frizz also.

[maskedrose]

Oh darn - I was becoming very fond of those 2c curls :( Well, at least the virgin stuff should be a heck of a lot stronger and shinier than damaged stuff - I suppose I could live with shiny, healthy 2a waves!

Thanks for sharing!

[Áine]

Well, curls and waves at the top of your head will not be as pronounced anyway because of the increasing weight of your hair as it grows out. As it gets longer, I would guess that the hair would stay straighter further away from the roots than before, when it was shorter. That may be part of it.

Okay, this all made sense in my head before I typed it, but now I'm not sure what I just wrote, LOL.

[maskedrose]

No I think that may have something to do with it Aine - I guess I will just have to wait and see what happens :)

[sweetkandi]

My hair is naturally wavy, but after I dyed it I noticed it was a little more wavy, or I guess it conformed. lol

[darkwaves]

However, the bottom layers (virgin, but bad quality due to some high powered meds) are the curliest, so maybe they will stay that way after all the damage is gone?

Any input? I think it's fairly common for the bottom layers to be the curliest. Mine are!

[shellblue1]

My damaged parts are drier and frizzer where my healthy parts (mainly the underneath) goes into thick spirals. So I'm the opposite.

[savi]

My take on this would be wait and see, it probably doesn't have the same amounts of wave but at least it's nice and healthy. I'm growing virgin hair too, but I can't tell what it'll be like because my hair won't make waves before it reaches a sertain lenght, it varies by the parts of my head, so I can't yet tell what it'll be like. On a positive note, isn't it exiting just waiting and watching what's going to grow out of your head? :silly:

Anyone want a scientic answer? :D Well I'm telling anyways. The pronounced curliness or lack of curls (on naturally curly people) after chemical treatment or continuos exposion to heat is most likely due to damage caused to the hair's keratin ( as we all know..) In particular to the disulfide bonds, which form the hair patter, curly wavy etc. Basicly chemical damage breaks these bonds which enables the hair from returning to it's original pattern, and it re-establishes to a different shape. Oh and the lack of moisture in the hair contributes to its different pattern too, because it affects the hairs' elasticity.
Okay, I'll be quiet now.

Oh and Áine, that made perfect sense to me.

[Curlsgirl]

My take on this would be wait and see, it probably doesn't have the same amounts of wave but at least it's nice and healthy. I'm growing virgin hair too, but I can't tell what it'll be like because my hair won't make waves before it reaches a sertain lenght, it varies by the parts of my head, so I can't yet tell what it'll be like. On a positive note, isn't it exiting just waiting and watching what's going to grow out of your head? :silly:

Anyone want a scientic answer? :D Well I'm telling anyways. The pronounced curliness or lack of curls (on naturally curly people) after chemical treatment or continuos exposion to heat is most likely due to damage caused to the hair's keratin ( as we all know..) In particular to the disulfide bonds, which form the hair patter, curly wavy etc. Basicly chemical damage breaks these bonds which enables the hair from returning to it's original pattern, and it re-establishes to a different shape. Oh and the lack of moisture in the hair contributes to its different pattern too, because it affects the hairs' elasticity.
Okay, I'll be quiet now.

Oh and Áine, that made perfect sense to me.Don't be quiet! I love reading your scientific answers! I don't always understand them but I like reading them anyway :flowers:

[suicides_eve]

mine was the opposite of most, when i was coloring/bleaching any kind of chemical process would make my hair go flat and straight, since going virgin i have nice spiral curls coming back in
and as for the bottem layers i agree they are a lot curlier then the top

[redcelticcurls]

My take on this would be wait and see, it probably doesn't have the same amounts of wave but at least it's nice and healthy. I'm growing virgin hair too, but I can't tell what it'll be like because my hair won't make waves before it reaches a sertain lenght, it varies by the parts of my head, so I can't yet tell what it'll be like. On a positive note, isn't it exiting just waiting and watching what's going to grow out of your head? :silly:

Anyone want a scientic answer? :D Well I'm telling anyways. The pronounced curliness or lack of curls (on naturally curly people) after chemical treatment or continuos exposion to heat is most likely due to damage caused to the hair's keratin ( as we all know..) In particular to the disulfide bonds, which form the hair patter, curly wavy etc. Basicly chemical damage breaks these bonds which enables the hair from returning to it's original pattern, and it re-establishes to a different shape. Oh and the lack of moisture in the hair contributes to its different pattern too, because it affects the hairs' elasticity.
Okay, I'll be quiet now.

Oh and Áine, that made perfect sense to me.


That makes sense. I am less curly for about 5 days after a color before it pops back up.

My hair gets curlier with better treatment.

[Smokie]

I... I seem to remember my virgin hair being more 3a...maybe even with some 2c waves... But it's been ten years since I've seen it and I didn't know how to make my hair be anything but a frizzball until after I started coloring...

After bleaching, my hair flattens out and refuses to curl. Instead, it frizzes like mad and makes 1c/2a waves. I've never noticed a texture difference immediately after a semi/demi/permanent chemical dye. I just went looking at Fia's visual hairtyping system and found that I'm pretty firmly in the 3b/c category. Some days there's a bit of 3a in there, but rarely.

I'm currently trying to figure out whether to continue trying for length, chop, or maintain until the damage is gone. We'll see. If I can get to 27" I'll maintain there I think. No matter the means, the end goal is henna only hair from roots(ish) to ends (and TBL dry). Then we'll see what my -real- texture is.... in a year or two... **crosses fingers and hopes for the 2c/3a hair she's always dreamed of having**

[maskedrose]

Savi - I love scientific answers!

[teela1978]

I often wonder if dying opens up the cuticle, allowing for better moisturizing of the hair. My hair doesn't take dye very well, making me think it's not particularly porus. Once it's been dyed it fades like crazy though, indicating that those cuticles are still more open than closed.

I find that I get a little more wave if I do a deep treatment on my virgin hair, but nothing compared to my well-treated but previously dyed hair.

[getoffmyskittle]

I have that too! My hair was almost 2c before I knew how to take care of it. The healthier it gets, the straighter it gets. I have settled on 2a/2b because the ends curl, but most of it is more like 1c.

[Neorah]

When my hair was dry and not cared for well, it had a very pronounced 2a waves. As I've been taking better care of it and it has gotten more moisture, it's texture is more 1c with only the occasional 2a wave.

I'm sad to see some of the wave go, but all I really care about is that it's healthier and happier...

[LaurelSpring]

Could someone please explain to me the curly/straight rating system. I didnt know when I registered so I just guessed.

thank you
Fran

[Neorah]

Could someone please explain to me the curly/straight rating system. I didnt know when I registered so I just guessed.

thank you
Fran
Here's a link (http://homepage.mac.com/annsofie.henriksson/hairtyping/Personal27.html) that explains the hair typing system. :)

[savi]

I... I seem to remember my virgin hair being more 3a...maybe even with some 2c waves... But it's been ten years since I've seen it and I didn't know how to make my hair be anything but a frizzball until after I started coloring...

After bleaching, my hair flattens out and refuses to curl. Instead, it frizzes like mad and makes 1c/2a waves. I've never noticed a texture difference immediately after a semi/demi/permanent chemical dye. I just went looking at Fia's visual hairtyping system and found that I'm pretty firmly in the 3b/c category. Some days there's a bit of 3a in there, but rarely.

Then we'll see what my -real- texture is.... in a year or two... **crosses fingers and hopes for the 2c/3a hair she's always dreamed of having**

Let me do some math here. Ten years ago you were 12 right? It might be that puberty changed your hair type, I'm not trying to hex you it just came to mind.. And don't let the after bleach hair scare you.. It's really no wonder why your hair responds that way to bleach. Since it is the harhest hair coloring method, and it is designed to remove all pigment out of the hair. I think you'll grow your 3a mane back.


I often wonder if dying opens up the cuticle, allowing for better moisturizing of the hair. My hair doesn't take dye very well, making me think it's not particularly porus. Once it's been dyed it fades like crazy though, indicating that those cuticles are still more open than closed.

I find that I get a little more wave if I do a deep treatment on my virgin hair, but nothing compared to my well-treated but previously dyed hair.

You're on the right track here! But can I add that dying usually leaves the cuticle open so even if it allows more moisture into the hair it still doesn't retain it as well (Because the cuticles aren't stopping the moisture going out the same way as they aren't hindering it from coming inside the hair.). Basicly it escapes more easily. The same with larger molechules inserted in to the hair, they escape more easily too, which might be for examle.. hair color. Extremely damaged hair doesn't even hold permanent color inside without multiple pre-colorings. Though there is the possibility that if someone's hair has naturally really tight cuticles, that it's moisture levels could be improved by opening up the cuticle a bit. But if ones cutice is so tight I don't think it would let all that much moisture out either.

You said your hair fades easily, so I'm thinking it just might be porous. But there are several other reasons that contribute to color fading fast or not sticking. But I'm not going to go at lenght here since this thread isn't about how-to-color. :D
Could you do a porosity test? I would be really interested to hear how it went. :cookie: And hoping to be wrong, since different people consider fading speed differently.

Since your hair type is 1c it's naturally more straight than wavy, so it's no wonder if it get's more wave when moisturized + damaged than moisturized + virgin. The damage made your hair keratin (protein) loose it's naturally shape and wave more. I mean moisture = improved elasticity, but with virgin hair it's restricted by the disulfide bonds, in damaged hair disulfide bonds broken -> more room to wave. I don't know if I voiced out my thoughts right,but it makes sense in my head. :rolleyes:

Hi-jacking a bit. You lot are making me blush. :blushing:

[maskedrose]

Hahaha Savi - I don't mind hijacking in the least! Besides, your explainations (while going somewhat over my head) are interesting nontheless :)

This has turned into quite the diverse thread!

[khyricat]

my hair is wurlier the healthier it gets, but at the top of my head it still isn't that much so, but my hair LOVES moisture and when there is enough its wurly, and holds curl, when there isn't nothing I do will make it hold.. and that goes back to heat styling and chemical usage days.. back then it was more too dry then it ever is today though.

[savi]

Hahaha Savi - I don't mind hijacking in the least! Besides, your explainations (while going somewhat over my head) are interesting nontheless :)

This has turned into quite the diverse thread!
What can I say, I think in strange ways. :D I just like to research stuff and then I go into too much detail..

[SippyCup]

When my hair was BSL, anything below my ears had been dyed 5 or more times and flat ironed and was 2a after I stopped doing those things.

Now that I've cut my hair, my fringe is brow length and the sides are about half way down my ears, its 1b, and once long again, probably no more wavier than 1c.

I'm happy with this though, 1c is my favourite hair type :cheese:.