won small claim against stylist

[xcrunr2go]

I recently settled on an agreed amount of $5,000 over a small claims case I initiated against the stylist that admittedly ruined my long locks. In the end, hopefully this won't happen again to anybody else. The money is nice, but my long hair has yet to grow back. I will be patiently waiting for the day I can french braid, bun & beyond! Thanks LHC for helping me become more hair savvy!:D

[gretchen_hair]

woot woot for winning your claim, but that font is OWEEEEEEEE. Hard to see.

[julierockhead]

That is THE BEST! DAMAGED HAIR STORY WITH A FAIR ENDING! EVER!:joy:

Cheering you on for your renewed hair growth journey!:cheer:

Some possibly nosey questions, please feel free to tell me you won't answer, totally understandable:

Can you tell us how badly she assaulted you?

What are you going to do with money from the ruling? (Please say you're going to spoil yourself in some way)

[pink.sara]

Ok the font colour?! Ouch :eye:

And really I can't say well done or congratulations about that. Sorry if it sounds harsh but if this is the stylist who tried to bleach your black (box dyed by yourself) hair back to blonde by using one application of 30vol bleach I feel sorry for her/him.

Yes they could have done a better job, used colour removers and toned etc, but at the end of the day I think if you dramatically alter your hair with colour or chemical processes and ask someone else to try and fix it you should be aware it can go wrong.
And as you were the one that dyed it in the first place accept some responsibility.

This culture of "someone did something I didn't like" "I disagree therefore should be compensated" "the instructions didn't tell me not to do that" I think I'm going to sue is horrible. It's damaging for us all as it raises insurance premiums and prevents many beneficial actions from being taken as everyone is so worried about the "blame and claim" culture.

Is hair worth $5k? Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this :(

[spidermom]

I'm with pink.sara.

[oktobergoud]

Ok the font colour?! Ouch :eye:

And really I can't say well done or congratulations about that. Sorry if it sounds harsh but if this is the stylist who tried to bleach your black (box dyed by yourself) hair back to blonde by using one application of 30vol bleach I feel sorry for her/him.

Yes they could have done a better job, used colour removers and toned etc, but at the end of the day I think if you dramatically alter your hair with colour or chemical processes and ask someone else to try and fix it you should be aware it can go wrong.
And as you were the one that dyed it in the first place accept some responsibility.

This culture of "someone did something I didn't like" "I disagree therefore should be compensated" "the instructions didn't tell me not to do that" I think I'm going to sue is horrible. It's damaging for us all as it raises insurance premiums and prevents many beneficial actions from being taken as everyone is so worried about the "blame and claim" culture.

Is hair worth $5k? Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this :(


This! Also, I personally find 5000 dollars ridiculous for 'just' hair. I know people are going to get pissed off by me saying this.. but.. well I just find it ridiculous. This could never ever happen in my country! And I'm glad it can't, honestly.

If I could get 5000 dollars for a hairstylist to butcher my hair, than I'd gladly would :D Sorry, not trying to be rude here (although I probably am to you), but I'm just honest. I can not understand why someone would get 5000 dollars, just because their hair was ruined :s

I'm not judging you (OP), so don't see this as a personal attack! I'm just astounded that things like this can happen in other countries (I guess you life in America? I know I'm sounding terribly stereotypical but I think things like that can only happen in America :P)

I know everybody is probably going to hate me right now.. but hey, whatever ;)

Short hair can be awesome too ;) (And I can now it because I've ruined my own hair with bleach many times :P)

[pepperminttea]

Ditto what pink.sara said. I'm kinda feeling bad for the stylist, sorry. I'm sure your hair was beautiful, (and I'd bet it is now too), but bleach isn't a kind chemical, whoever's applying it. There will always be some damage from bleaching, it's just a case of how much. :shrug:

[Yame]

Ok the font colour?! Ouch :eye:

And really I can't say well done or congratulations about that. Sorry if it sounds harsh but if this is the stylist who tried to bleach your black (box dyed by yourself) hair back to blonde by using one application of 30vol bleach I feel sorry for her/him.

Yes they could have done a better job, used colour removers and toned etc, but at the end of the day I think if you dramatically alter your hair with colour or chemical processes and ask someone else to try and fix it you should be aware it can go wrong.
And as you were the one that dyed it in the first place accept some responsibility.

This culture of "someone did something I didn't like" "I disagree therefore should be compensated" "the instructions didn't tell me not to do that" I think I'm going to sue is horrible. It's damaging for us all as it raises insurance premiums and prevents many beneficial actions from being taken as everyone is so worried about the "blame and claim" culture.

Is hair worth $5k? Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this :(

I could see suing a hairdresser if you asked for a small trim and they cut off half your length, I could understand suing if they convince you to bleach your dyed-black hair to platinum blonde and it took multiple processes, and she kept bleaching and bleaching until your hair began to fall out.

But if what happened is what pink.sara is talking about, I am with her. I mean, I think it's the hairstylist's job to let you know about possible damage. If she didn't warn you, I can understand resorting to this. But ultimately, if the client wants a drastic change, it's the stylist's job to do it. And most drastic changes are rather damaging.

[getoffmyskittle]

Wow, you know stylists are some of the lowest paid professionals out there?

[Sunshineliz]

Well, it might be a bit much, but most claims are as "punitive" damages so that someone doesn't just make the same mistake again. I'd bet the hair wasn't truly worth that only because of the box dye. Still, you'd be surprised how much someone can sell their hair for.

But even so, I found the old thread where OP shared her experience and it does seem that the stylist didn't know what she was doing. I'm sure I've heard of other people stripping out ONE bad hair dyeing without completely killing their hair. (But I don't know how it was ruined--did it melt? Did it just look bad? Couldn't tell.)

I can understand the outrage and the wanting to make sure it wouldn't happen to anyone else. Personally I don't think I would have sued, but that's just my style. I sure wouldn't have paid them though.

[Yame]

Here's the original thread, where the OP tells the story:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=1579947#post1579947

I still don't fully understand what happened, though. You went to this hairdresser and asked her to lighten your hair. Did you tell her you had colored your hair yourself? What did she tell you?

My mother is a hairdresser, and my hair is dyed black. During my senior year in high school, I decided I wanted to dye a chunk of my hair white. My mom explained that with hair that is dark, that would take some bleaching, but with hair that is dyed black like mine, it would be very hard to strip all the color out of my hair to get it light enough to be toned white. She said it would damage my hair very much, and I'd have to take it slowly. I insisted on doing it anyway, so she did it for me. I was able to get my hair to a light platinum blonde, but it became so fine and straw-like, and many pieces would break off just from touching it. Thankfully the chunk was just my "side bangs." I couldn't handle having hair that I had to take so much care of, that was so weak and straw-like. But guess what? It was my decision. I didn't force her at gunpoint to bleach my hair.

Within a few weeks I decided I couldn't keep that anymore. I never even got around to making it white, because I didn't want to deal with the roots... so I dyed it back to black and grew out the awfully-textured bangs. Even when it was black again, you could tell which part was dyed. It was poofy, and felt porous and sponge-like in comparison to the rest.

I can't imagine what it must be like to have that happen all over. And I think it's the job of any professional to warn you when something like that might happen. If the person warned you and you still wanted to do it, then it's solely your responsibility. If you were not warned at all, then I believe it is largely their responsibility but still partly yours.

[kyandii]

This culture of "someone did something I didn't like" "I disagree therefore should be compensated" "the instructions didn't tell me not to do that" I think I'm going to sue is horrible. It's damaging for us all as it raises insurance premiums and prevents many beneficial actions from being taken as everyone is so worried about the "blame and claim" culture.

Is hair worth $5k? Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this :(


IAWTC. :(
Stylests aren't exactly well paid either.

[WinterButterfly]

I would like to point out that a decent weave can cost 5000 or more. And by decent I mean 20 to 25 inches of hair that is hopefully heat resistant. 5000 is about enough money to restore ones appearance almost to how it used to be. If the hairdresser is truly at fault then she should pay the ammoutn it takes to restore your appearance back to normal, even if you choose not to say, have that weave dome because it would cause too much damage in te long run. Did the styalist use a hair dye remover first before bleach? If she just started out on bleach she missed a very important step in avoiding damage. Granted that everyone makes mistakes. If you decide to get your hair done by anyone but you, you need to do real research about the place first. I hope you enjoy the money and that it makes you feel better while your hair is growing back. I just think that the world can be a sad place. I probably would have not paid and asked for enough compensation to get. A high quality wig and have a little to spend to make me feel better.

[wvgemini]

Sooo ... was this $5,000 in addition to the $7,500 already awarded from the first story?:hmm:

[bluesnowflake]

To me this seems a bit much. I mean, yes, I'd be unhappy with what she did to my hair and definitely wouldn't have paid, but I think our culture in general is going way too far towards "Hey, you don't agree with me?" or "You did something I don't like? I'll sue!" Personally I think it went too far.

[xcrunr2go]

[SIZE="2"]
Ok the font colour?! Ouch :eye:

And really I can't say well done or congratulations about that. Sorry if it sounds harsh but if this is the stylist who tried to bleach your black (box dyed by yourself) hair back to blonde by using one application of 30vol bleach I feel sorry for her/him.

Yes they could have done a better job, used colour removers and toned etc, but at the end of the day I think if you dramatically alter your hair with colour or chemical processes and ask someone else to try and fix it you should be aware it can go wrong.
And as you were the one that dyed it in the first place accept some responsibility.

This culture of "someone did something I didn't like" "I disagree therefore should be compensated" "the instructions didn't tell me not to do that" I think I'm going to sue is horrible. It's damaging for us all as it raises insurance premiums and prevents many beneficial actions from being taken as everyone is so worried about the "blame and claim" culture.

Is hair worth $5k? Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this :(

As a consumer, sometimes I get roped into making a purchase based on things like the name or color. Yes, it happens to all of us. In light of this, choosing this particular box color wasn't hard. Beautiful model, great name, exactly what I wanted. Unfortunately, yes I did do some damage to my hair, but hardly any compared to this awful stylist. I had virgin hair prior to the box dye. Of course I didn't like the outcome, but if I had a choice to change that outcome I would have walked away presented with the facts. The facts were, there was a waiver that the stylist failed to read/give to me. Upon seeing a "waiver" for receiving a hair service I would have walked right out that door for otherwise. Similar to the waiver I was shown recently for laser tattoo removal. The laser center legally have to tell you what the risks involved in "erasing" your tattoo. Among those are: blisters, hypo/hyper pigmentation, scarring & the list continues. Of course a lot of salons overlook this form as a means to an end. It would scare away the customers. Or a chunk of them anyhow. Not only did she take advantage of the fact that I didn't know a whole lot about hair color, but she was NEGLIGENT. While the bleach soak was sitting in my hair, I wanted someone to come over & check it as it was starting to burn. The stylists had gone outside for a cigarette break (I could smell it throughout the salon). Mind you, it was a Sunday so there were 2 stylists on & 1 girl @ the front desk. All of which were outside. About the insurance premiums, that's why people have insurance. Maybe people would make less mistakes if they didn't have it. The beneficial actions you speak of. . .where are you going with this?

[B][SIZE="2"]"Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this"

As for this comment, you obviously weren't the one who had to cut over 25'' off your hair unwillingly & disheartedly. The 1st sentence is EXACTLY what happened to me!!! It was a bleach soak with 30vol. for almost an hour & then 2 different semi-permanent dyes to mask her mistake. Blow-fried to "perfection". I think this counts for more than enough to cause irreversible damage to MY hair!

I chose to file the small claim only after I was presented with the facts. She failed to have me sign their waiver (I only knew there was a waiver because the girl @ the front desk advised me she was supposed to have me sign it after I called back to complain) & trying EVERY hair repair remedy under the sun, hundreds of dollars later & humiliation of trying to hold on the the sad attempt of waist length locks then having to cut it to pixie length (aka little boy cut) I had a RIGHT to file this claim. I filed for as much as I could without having to hire an attorney. Originally $7,500. I settled on $5,000 because it's not about the money, it's about this NEVER happening again. I filed a formal complaint with the State Board of Cosmetology as well. The stylist has since been fired from that salon. Don't be so quick to judge until you put yourself in somebody else's shoes.

[Yame]

[SIZE="2"]

As a consumer, sometimes I get roped into making a purchase based on things like the name or color. Yes, it happens to all of us. In light of this, choosing this particular box color wasn't hard. Beautiful model, great name, exactly what I wanted. Unfortunately, yes I did do some damage to my hair, but hardly any compared to this awful stylist. I had virgin hair prior to the box dye. Of course I didn't like the outcome, but if I had a choice to change that outcome I would have walked away presented with the facts. The facts were, there was a waiver that the stylist failed to read/give to me. Upon seeing a "waiver" for receiving a hair service I would have walked right out that door for otherwise. Similar to the waiver I was shown recently for laser tattoo removal. The laser center legally have to tell you what the risks involved in "erasing" your tattoo. Among those are: blisters, hypo/hyper pigmentation, scarring & the list continues. Of course a lot of salons overlook this form as a means to an end. It would scare away the customers. Or a chunk of them anyhow. Not only did she take advantage of the fact that I didn't know a whole lot about hair color, but she was NEGLIGENT. While the bleach soak was sitting in my hair, I wanted someone to come over & check it as it was starting to burn. The stylists had gone outside for a cigarette break (I could smell it throughout the salon). Mind you, it was a Sunday so there were 2 stylists on & 1 girl @ the front desk. All of which were outside. About the insurance premiums, that's why people have insurance. Maybe people would make less mistakes if they didn't have it. The beneficial actions you speak of. . .where are you going with this?

[B][SIZE="2"]"Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this"

As for this comment, you obviously weren't the one who had to cut over 25'' off your hair unwillingly & disheartedly. The 1st sentence is EXACTLY what happened to me!!! It was a bleach soak with 30vol. for almost an hour & then 2 different semi-permanent dyes to mask her mistake. Blow-fried to "perfection". I think this counts for more than enough to cause irreversible damage to MY hair!

I chose to file the small claim only after I was presented with the facts. She failed to have me sign their waiver (I only knew there was a waiver because the girl @ the front desk advised me she was supposed to have me sign it after I called back to complain) & trying EVERY hair repair remedy under the sun, hundreds of dollars later & humiliation of trying to hold on the the sad attempt of waist length locks then having to cut it to pixie length (aka little boy cut) I had a RIGHT to file this claim. I filed for as much as I could without having to hire an attorney. Originally $7,500. I settled on $5,000 because it's not about the money, it's about this NEVER happening again. I filed a formal complaint with the State Board of Cosmetology as well. The stylist has since been fired from that salon. Don't be so quick to judge until you put yourself in somebody else's shoes.

Thanks for clarifying. The part about everybody going out for a smoke while your scalp was burning sounds rather awful and terrifying.

[AcornMystic]

I would like to point out that a decent weave can cost 5000 or more. And by decent I mean 20 to 25 inches of hair that is hopefully heat resistant. 5000 is about enough money to restore ones appearance almost to how it used to be. If the hairdresser is truly at fault then she should pay the ammoutn it takes to restore your appearance back to normal, even if you choose not to say, have that weave dome because it would cause too much damage in te long run. Did the styalist use a hair dye remover first before bleach? If she just started out on bleach she missed a very important step in avoiding damage. Granted that everyone makes mistakes. If you decide to get your hair done by anyone but you, you need to do real research about the place first. I hope you enjoy the money and that it makes you feel better while your hair is growing back. I just think that the world can be a sad place. I probably would have not paid and asked for enough compensation to get. A high quality wig and have a little to spend to make me feel better.

I am seriously surprised that no one else mentioned this. This is the first thing that came to my mind. Reading that thread "Would you cut your hair for $2000" I expected people to possibly quote themselves. If your hair is removed you would need as much money to achieve it back again (products, treatments etc.) and then some for compensation. I mean you'd be getting paid to remove your hair. $2000 wasn't enough for a lot of people.

In this case though, I don't know how long your hair was, OP, (what constitutes as "long" for you), or how this all happened, if it was mis-communication, but hopefully it's enough to treat your hair and get it back. If you want your TBL hair though, box dye is something you really need to avoid unless you are willing to baby your hair above all else. Especially, and I can't stress it enough, if you are going to dye it multiple times.

[julierockhead]

I would like to point out that a decent weave can cost 5000 or more. And by decent I mean 20 to 25 inches of hair that is hopefully heat resistant. 5000 is about enough money to restore ones appearance almost to how it used to be. If the hairdresser is truly at fault then she should pay the ammoutn it takes to restore your appearance back to normal, even if you choose not to say, have that weave dome because it would cause too much damage in te long run. Did the styalist use a hair dye remover first before bleach? If she just started out on bleach she missed a very important step in avoiding damage. Granted that everyone makes mistakes. If you decide to get your hair done by anyone but you, you need to do real research about the place first. I hope you enjoy the money and that it makes you feel better while your hair is growing back. I just think that the world can be a sad place. I probably would have not paid and asked for enough compensation to get. A high quality wig and have a little to spend to make me feel better.

Here-here. There is no reason to think that this is a frivolous suit, my DH is a lawer and says most B.S. claims are NOT rewarded with damages. I tend to think small claims courts mostly work the way they are supposed to...

How little or how much the stylist makes is moot.

Curious to hear the whole story.

[AcornMystic]

Oh, ok. After now seeing the recent posts while I was typing mine up. Waist length hair (any hair for that matter) and being left unattended with something as serious as bleach. Yikes... I am totally with you, then. Not to be overly judgmental, but I'd be cautious to have anyone work on me who smokes. I think that is pretty self-explanatory. (Not that you knew, just saying, it's a general inclination of mine.) I say good on you, that's my piece.

[Sunshineliz]

Sounds worse than I thought and looks like she definitely didn't tell you what you were in for. And everyone out on a smoking break while you sit with bleach on your hair? Terrible. Good for you!

[LouLaLa]

yeah the whole point is to put you back in the position you would have been had it not been for the breach of contract. They provided a service and did not do so excercising reasonable care and skill that would be expected of your average hairdresser.

Its negligence therefore you have a right to be restored to the pre- negligence position and since that cant be done you are awarded damages* accordingly. (I assume you sued on breach of the contract similar to an infringement of a sale of goods/supply of services ground rather than for assualt?)

Im a UK commercial lawyer so cannot speak for the nuances of US law or the case law but it seems fair to me.

You cant get your hair back, so good on you. They dont award damages lightly.


*compensatory/recission

[spidermom]

In light of further information above, I will agree that compensation was owed.
Have they actually paid? A friend won compensation in small claims court 20-something years ago, and he has yet to see a single cent. Meanwhile, the business he sued continues, although we don't know at what profit (or loss).

[Yame]

[SIZE="2"]

As a consumer, sometimes I get roped into making a purchase based on things like the name or color. Yes, it happens to all of us. In light of this, choosing this particular box color wasn't hard. Beautiful model, great name, exactly what I wanted. Unfortunately, yes I did do some damage to my hair, but hardly any compared to this awful stylist. I had virgin hair prior to the box dye. Of course I didn't like the outcome, but if I had a choice to change that outcome I would have walked away presented with the facts. The facts were, there was a waiver that the stylist failed to read/give to me. Upon seeing a "waiver" for receiving a hair service I would have walked right out that door for otherwise. Similar to the waiver I was shown recently for laser tattoo removal. The laser center legally have to tell you what the risks involved in "erasing" your tattoo. Among those are: blisters, hypo/hyper pigmentation, scarring & the list continues. Of course a lot of salons overlook this form as a means to an end. It would scare away the customers. Or a chunk of them anyhow. Not only did she take advantage of the fact that I didn't know a whole lot about hair color, but she was NEGLIGENT. While the bleach soak was sitting in my hair, I wanted someone to come over & check it as it was starting to burn. The stylists had gone outside for a cigarette break (I could smell it throughout the salon). Mind you, it was a Sunday so there were 2 stylists on & 1 girl @ the front desk. All of which were outside. About the insurance premiums, that's why people have insurance. Maybe people would make less mistakes if they didn't have it. The beneficial actions you speak of. . .where are you going with this?

[B][SIZE="2"]"Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this"

As for this comment, you obviously weren't the one who had to cut over 25'' off your hair unwillingly & disheartedly. The 1st sentence is EXACTLY what happened to me!!! It was a bleach soak with 30vol. for almost an hour & then 2 different semi-permanent dyes to mask her mistake. Blow-fried to "perfection". I think this counts for more than enough to cause irreversible damage to MY hair!

I chose to file the small claim only after I was presented with the facts. She failed to have me sign their waiver (I only knew there was a waiver because the girl @ the front desk advised me she was supposed to have me sign it after I called back to complain) & trying EVERY hair repair remedy under the sun, hundreds of dollars later & humiliation of trying to hold on the the sad attempt of waist length locks then having to cut it to pixie length (aka little boy cut) I had a RIGHT to file this claim. I filed for as much as I could without having to hire an attorney. Originally $7,500. I settled on $5,000 because it's not about the money, it's about this NEVER happening again. I filed a formal complaint with the State Board of Cosmetology as well. The stylist has since been fired from that salon. Don't be so quick to judge until you put yourself in somebody else's shoes.

Also, may I suggest that you add this post to your original post? That way anyone new to reading the thread will understand the whole story. Having a better idea of what actually happened, I think you were justified to file that claim.

[TrudieCat]

Here-here. There is no reason to think that this is a frivolous suit, my DH is a lawer and says most B.S. claims are NOT rewarded with damages. I tend to think small claims courts mostly work the way they are supposed to...

How little or how much the stylist makes is moot.

Curious to hear the whole story.

It's hair. It's not worth $5,000. Lawsuits, especially lawsuits this damaging, should be reserved for things that *actually* cause harm. You didn't lose your hair permanently. It will grow back.

I'm sorry the experience was difficult for you, and I agree it was appropriate to mention the situation to the salon and the licensing board, and to get the money you paid for the appointment back - but I can't cheer along with you on this lawsuit thing.

It is not moot how much the stylist makes, IMO. $5,000 is a lot of money. A hair mistake is not worth losing what, for many people, is much more than a year's savings, or maybe even a year's rent. I would be ashamed of myself for crowing over this "accomplishment" that might cause serious financial hardship for something that didn't set you back in any way in your life. :twocents:

Yeah, maybe you had the right to file this claim. IMO that doesn't mean you should have.

[McFearless]

Hearing about burning scalps always makes me cringe. I hope your hair grows back in just as beautiful as it was. Best of luck to you :)

[Yame]

It's hair. It's not worth $5,000. Lawsuits, especially lawsuits this damaging, should be reserved for things that *actually* cause harm. You didn't lose your hair permanently. It will grow back.

I'm sorry the experience was difficult for you, and I agree it was appropriate to mention the situation to the salon and the licensing board, and to get the money you paid for the appointment back - but I can't cheer along with you on this lawsuit thing.

It is not moot how much the stylist makes, IMO. $5,000 is a lot of money. A hair mistake is not worth losing what, for many people, is much more than a year's savings, or maybe even a year's rent. I would be ashamed of myself for crowing over this "accomplishment" that might cause serious financial hardship for something that didn't set you back in any way in your life. :twocents:

Yeah, maybe you had the right to file this claim. IMO that doesn't mean you should have.

This wasn't a super damaging lawsuit. This is a small private dispute, which is exactly what small claims courts are designed to handle.

The hairdresser doesn't have to pay $5000 out of pocket. She should be insured, so that the insurance can handle such accidents.

And hair absolutely IS worth $5000, and more. Hair is important to many people's sense of self and worth. Cutting someone's hair without their permission can be considered a human rights violation. It takes many, many years to grow a pixie cut back to waist length.

[racrane]

I agree with the OP. The waiver especially is a fault against the salon and thus that makes all the difference, in my mind. I'm sorry about your hair. I would be freaked out about hair cuts, that's for sure.

[Viechen]

To begin with i want to say I am so sorry you had to go through this terrible procedure and this happened to you :(

A few years ago I went to a hair dresser to have my own box-dye mistake fixed and I ended up having to pay over 80CDN and after 4 hours of treatments left with a burning scalp and a hideous hair color. A few hours later my scalp had a reaction to the dye and I had to go to the hospital because it was oozing and peeling (along with my forehead, ears and neck... I went back to the salon to complain because I was never even informed that something like this was even possible. I had no idea, instead I was laughed at and told to go home and take a few benadryl... The people were so rude and to this day I have not gone to a single salon since...

In my personal opinion, what happened to you does sound like the stylists were negligent and unprofessional. I think what you did was well deserved and that eventhough "hair grows back" you had every right to be compensated for the damage that was done... Thats my two cents and I want to wish you a happy hair journey back to your previous length and healthy hair!! :cheese:

[MeganE]

It's hair. It's not worth $5,000. Lawsuits, especially lawsuits this damaging, should be reserved for things that *actually* cause harm. You didn't lose your hair permanently. It will grow back.

I'm sorry the experience was difficult for you, and I agree it was appropriate to mention the situation to the salon and the licensing board, and to get the money you paid for the appointment back - but I can't cheer along with you on this lawsuit thing.

It is not moot how much the stylist makes, IMO. $5,000 is a lot of money. A hair mistake is not worth losing what, for many people, is much more than a year's savings, or maybe even a year's rent. I would be ashamed of myself for crowing over this "accomplishment" that might cause serious financial hardship for something that didn't set you back in any way in your life. :twocents:

Yeah, maybe you had the right to file this claim. IMO that doesn't mean you should have.

Well, I think the amount awarded is at best appropriate. Although I can see how it might not be enough.

The worth is determined by what it costs to replace it. And that worth is very high indeed when you consider that the hair that was lost is absolutely not replaceable.

New hair will grow in, assuming she doesn't have any major health problems in the next few years that prevent her from growing it out again, but even if it does, it won't be the same hair. There's no guarantees about what condition it will be in at that point.

As for causing financial hardship for someone else? I assume professional hairdressers are educated about their responsibilities to their clients, and are well aware of what can happen as a result of negligence.

Considering how much time, money, and effort is involved in growing long and healthy hair, I absolutely support people who attempt to recover some of their losses when things like this happen to them.

And clearly the legal system agrees.

[TrudieCat]

This wasn't a super damaging lawsuit. This is a small private dispute, which is exactly what small claims courts are designed to handle.

The hairdresser doesn't have to pay $5000 out of pocket. She should be insured, so that the insurance can handle such accidents.

And hair absolutely IS worth $5000, and more. Hair is important to many people's sense of self and worth. Cutting someone's hair without their permission can be considered a human rights violation. It takes many, many years to grow a pixie cut back to waist length.

I see your point, but unless the OP had her hair insured or was making money from her hair then it's excessive to me. We disagree obviously, but although $5000 qualifies as a small claim, but it is not a small amount of money and this just sounds ridiculous to me, even having read the OP's story. I think the insurance company will not be losing on this deal - either the stylist will be responsible for the increased rate or the salon will.

[AcornMystic]

It's hair. It's not worth $5,000. Lawsuits, especially lawsuits this damaging, should be reserved for things that *actually* cause harm. You didn't lose your hair permanently. It will grow back.

I'm sorry the experience was difficult for you, and I agree it was appropriate to mention the situation to the salon and the licensing board, and to get the money you paid for the appointment back - but I can't cheer along with you on this lawsuit thing.

It is not moot how much the stylist makes, IMO. $5,000 is a lot of money. A hair mistake is not worth losing what, for many people, is much more than a year's savings, or maybe even a year's rent. I would be ashamed of myself for crowing over this "accomplishment" that might cause serious financial hardship for something that didn't set you back in any way in your life. :twocents:

Yeah, maybe you had the right to file this claim. IMO that doesn't mean you should have.

So you're saying as long as she gets her money back everything is hunky dory? This woman can continue to be negligent of her clients running it like it is a hobby as long as she gives people their money back when she actually does do something that people have the courage to complain about?

You're excusing a professional for something she is paid to do. Hair is a body part. It is the most changeable body part, so they have guaranteed regular business, but it is none-the-less a body part. People's hair also becomes a part of their identity, personalizing that body part, and if someone violated that I would be inclined to sue as well. The fact that it grows back doesn't make it any less of a violation. It's your property.

I get that a lot of people just say it is hair because it's easy to downplay something that replenishes itself, and calling those who put so much value on it obsessed, but they need to look a little more on the fundamental side.

[TrudieCat]

No, I am not saying that. The stylist should be dealt with by the salon and the licensing board. The salon should provide extensions or whatever free if charge. I am saying that hair length, when there is no permanent or monetary damage to the person who lost the length, is not with $5,000 in my opinion.

[Charybdis]

I'm with the OP on this one. Part of the purpose of the tort (or, in this case, small claims) system is to make it difficult for people like the hairdresser in question to continue inflicting damage on others without consequences. Individuals who are incompetent at their chosen profession need either to be weeded out or to mend their ways, and a $5,000 judgment provides a powerful incentive. How many other people had their hair ruined before this?

That said, it may prove difficult to collect on this judgment, as Spidermom pointed out. Unfortunately, judgments in small claims court are generally not enforced with threat of jail and/or penalties in the way that a trial court judgment would be. Enforcement mechanisms vary from state to state, though, so it's worth researching your options if the settlement ends up unpaid.

[Peggy E.]

I'm surprised by the number of people claiming this to be a "frivolous" suit. If she'd sued for a few million, you might have a point, but for the treatment to which she was submitted, the settlement amount seems perfectly reasonable.

Insurance companies/courts don't just happily hand over settlement money that they don't feel is deserved. These companies will fight tooth and nail to get the case dropped, by making the pursuit so difficult more often than not the filer will drop the suit out of sheer frustration, not wanting to continue through any further harassment and just to put it all behind.

Not being on the jury, in the court or in any other way truly informed of all the ins and outs of this case, it is not my place to question the decision that was made.

But I do hope that this hair dresser will never again do anything like this again and I also hope that the OP will be able to regrow her hair and it will be quickly grown out once again beautiful. Waist length to "pixie" is a lot of hair lost....:o(

She took advantage of the laws of the land which are here to protect her from this sort of assault and did nothing wrong in pursuing her case. Whether this is a "bad American" sort of thing, I can't say, but the OP certainly was within her legal rights to pursue the claim.

With luck, this stylist has learned an expensive lesson and will never be so inattentive again.

[wvgemini]

*shudder* Burning scalp. Ow. Now I understand better.

[Zenity]

This! Also, I personally find 5000 dollars ridiculous for 'just' hair. I know people are going to get pissed off by me saying this.. but.. well I just find it ridiculous.

Would you say the same if we were talking about your skin? what about your teeth?
How would you feel if you pay for a facial and end up with a 3rd degree burn at your face? Or what about going to fix a cavity and ending up with 3 teeth missing? The skin regenerates, teeth can be fixed with fakes... but it is okay????

It is not “just hair“. If someone takes the time and effort to care and grow waist line hair is not just hair. Is a work of patience, love, self-esteem, pride, identity, personality... it is a whole lot more. If you don't know probably is because you haven't feel this way about yourself or your hair in your entire life.
Is a part of yourself that you have been caring for a loooong time to reach that length. It is not fair that someone ruins your hair and because “is only hair“ can keep ruining others' hair too...


This could never ever happen in my country! And I'm glad it can't, honestly.
I totally disagree... Indeed this happens every day in all the world... I am talking about the part of terrible stylists ruining hairs, or dentists ruining smiles, or cosmeticians ruining skins, or plumbers ruining faucets.... and so and so... Mistakes happen, a bad day too, and bad pros shouldn't be allowed to ruin things and walk away.

About the money... I am not saying it is okay or not, but probably if they had to pay for their mistakes they wouldn't go out to have an smoke while they are supposed to be working and attending their customers, don't you think?


If I could get 5000 dollars for a hairstylist to butcher my hair, than I'd gladly would :D Sorry, not trying to be rude here (although I probably am to you), but I'm just honest. I can not understand why someone would get 5000 dollars, just because their hair was ruined :s

Well, that says a lot about yourself... You are willing to do that, many people doesn't. I don't think we speak the same language.
Money is not the issue, is the damage being compensated somehow... I did get some money after a motorcycle accident. I don't think anyone would crash their motorcycle against a car just to get money... Money was the compensation for the damage 'caused, but if I could go back I wouldn't have change the crash for the money, nor I think the driver of the car would.
No money can erase a traumatic experience , regardless the experience. For some people having a cyst is enough to get depressed while for others losing a family member is “just life“... We can't judge others based in our own feelings. It is not fair.


I'm not judging you (OP), so don't see this as a personal attack! I'm just astounded that things like this can happen in other countries (I guess you life in America? I know I'm sounding terribly stereotypical but I think things like that can only happen in America :P)

I am not in the US event though I lived there in the past. I live in EU in a first world country where a third world hairdresser (to be nice to him, not meant to be mean to 3rd world people) ruined my hair 5 years ago.
In my country you can sue your hairdresser, and probably at yours too, yet those things do not happen as often as in america... why? because you are not taken seriously if you claim about something so superficial as “just hair“. I had to go over the worst experience in my life, in public. Seeing how my hair was falling in chunks from my scalp, seeing others customers horrified face staring at me. Being left with horrible spots and burns on my scalp and with 3 hairs left on the lenght and! The hairdresser not admiting his mistake of bleaching my hair at 40 vol and putting me under the dryer.
I didn't have the chance to claim, i just had to walk home, cry, and cut my hair myself.
I haven't visit another saloon since nor I will in the future. The only person is allowed to touch my hair is my own sister who was a hairdresser.

I have to tell you a year and a half after this happened to me he ruined another client's hair (among many others). This time he wasn't lucky as she was a gypsy... few days later his saloon was burnt intentionally during the night.
I can't tell I felt okay or happy about this. I just think if I could have sued him when he ruined my hair I would stopped him from his unprofessional practice and I would have saved many other people and himself from that terrible end.

Everything happens for a reason.
In my case I know enough to do my hair at home without touching a saloon, thanks to his terrible lesson. In his case he has not been able to open another saloon and went broken... of course he did not have an insurance.


I know everybody is probably going to hate me right now.. but hey, whatever ;)

Short hair can be awesome too ;) (And I can now it because I've ruined my own hair with bleach many times :P)

Don't be too hard to yourself... I, personally can't hate you 'cause my jar of hate was emptied by that hair assassin.... And i understand that if you choose to do something and goes wrong there is nothing to do but be consequent and learn from your mistakes, but! if you PAY for a professional to do the same of course you can claim for it, specially if he has been negligent.

Short hair looks great, just like sex feels great.... only if you choose it... if it is imposed does not feel that great.

Sorry about my long story but I couldn't take it!!!!!

[pepperminttea]

*shudder* Burning scalp. Ow. Now I understand better.

Ditto. Being left alone with your scalp burning and everyone out... it's fair to say I would've freaked out, big time. :bigeyes:


Would you say the same if we were talking about your skin? what about your teeth?
How would you feel if you pay for a facial and end up with a 3rd degree burn at your face? Or what about going to fix a cavity and ending up with 3 teeth missing? The skin regenerates, teeth can be fixed with fakes... but it is okay????

It is not “just hair“. If someone takes the time and effort to care and grow waist line hair is not just hair. Is a work of patience, love, self-esteem, pride, identity, personality... it is a whole lot more. If you don't know probably is because you haven't feel this way about yourself or your hair in your entire life.
Is a part of yourself that you have been caring for a loooong time to reach that length. It is not fair that someone ruins your hair and because “is only hair“ can keep ruining others' hair too...

Hair is an important part of identity yes, but it is a lot more 'replaceable' than teeth or skin. Unless you've compromised the scalp in some way, it will grow back. Yes it will take years, yes it will take effort, but it will eventually come back. The same can't be said for a severe burn, where the scar will remain for the rest of your life. Ditto with teeth, they will never grow back. Those things you live with for a lifetime. Hair you live with until it grows back. I'm not saying it's easy, or meaningless to lose it, but it's definitely easier.

[Demetrue]

It seems to me like negligence to leave a caustic chemical burning on someone's scalp, leaving the client unattended, leaving the chemical on for 60 minutes, etc ...

[UltraBella]

OP, are you in Rhode Island ? Did you have to wait a long time for your case to go through small claims court there or was it pretty fast ? It takes FOREVER here where I live. Some people get frustrated and just give up.

[Athena's Owl]

*shrug*

I don't have a lot of sympathy, I'm afraid. I knew that black hair dye isn't something you can easily strip out of your hair when I was a little girl. It's not like that knowledge is inaccessible. It's not like the box dye instructions don't tell you to test the dye on a small sample of hair to see the results before dumping the whole thing on your head. it's not like it's impossible to drape your face surrounded by blue black and get a feel for how the colour looks next to your skin. Those are all simple things. they weren't done. And instead of living with the results of one bad decision, she went ahead and made another that made it worse.

*shrug* Chemical burns on scalp? Not awed. They're commonplace with salon straighteners. Not special or different. Nobody gets five grand back because of a bad konk.

[MandyBeth]

Can't be Rhode Island, that state maxs small claims at $2,500. Or was as of March of this year.

[Lianna]

*shrug* Chemical burns on scalp? Not awed. They're commonplace with salon straighteners. Not special or different. Nobody gets five grand back because of a bad konk.

I agree. People who is willing to start chemical treatments should research about it, not wait what the hairdresser will tell you (as far as what could happen). And having fine hair like the OP, I would be extra cautious. I thought it was common knowlegde that bleach "overtime" can melt hair. If I felt burning, I would just scream "wash it NOW".

[Ligeia_13]

Bleach over black hair? Never mind the hairdresser. It shouldn't have been done period.

[AnnaJamila]

No, I am not saying that. The stylist should be dealt with by the salon and the licensing board. The salon should provide extensions or whatever free if charge. I am saying that hair length, when there is no permanent or monetary damage to the person who lost the length, is not with $5,000 in my opinion.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand good extensions can cost more than $5,000.

[MandyBeth]

Also, OP jobs listed on her page - sorry, I'd figure you'd have more basic salon and hair knowledge than I did at the same age, and I knew at 14 to never bleach out my black dye on my fine hair.

[UltraBella]

Can't be Rhode Island, that state maxs small claims at $2,500. Or was as of March of this year.

Ya know, that's what I just read on three different websites........

[MandyBeth]

Mine is the state statues, but I got them in March from RI. So that amount may have changed. But, I am not seeing that.

[longblondetan]

I would like to say, as a hair dresser and a member/long hair lover... this is ridiculous, IMHO.
Firstly we get many, many, MANY clients in who think they can play "kitchen beautician" and dye their hair with box color, and then need us to fix it. Hear my warning people, it cost alot more to get bad color fixed than it does to go to the salon in the first place. Secondly, bleach burns, color remover burns, there is absolutely no way around it unless you want all the box color lifted EXCEPT your roots. And it damages, so again you should think about this BEFORE you dye your hair that is so precious to you at home. And I would like to add, that good, quality extensions, with real human hair DO NOT cost anywhere near 5000$, atleast not in Texas. I do agree that your stylist was inconsiderate, negligent, and unprofessional to say the least, but, as a hairdresser, If someone sued me after I had to fix something they personally messed up, I would be mortified.

[misspurdy06]

It's called Color Oops! By loreal! It's Fricken Amazing!

[AnnaJamila]

I would like to say, as a hair dresser and a member/long hair lover... this is ridiculous, IMHO.
Firstly we get many, many, MANY clients in who think they can play "kitchen beautician" and dye their hair with box color, and then need us to fix it. Hear my warning people, it cost alot more to get bad color fixed than it does to go to the salon in the first place. Secondly, bleach burns, color remover burns, there is absolutely no way around it unless you want all the box color lifted EXCEPT your roots. And it damages, so again you should think about this BEFORE you dye your hair that is so precious to you at home. And I would like to add, that good, quality extensions, with real human hair DO NOT cost anywhere near 5000$, atleast not in Texas. I do agree that your stylist was inconsiderate, negligent, and unprofessional to say the least, but, as a hairdresser, If someone sued me after I had to fix something they personally messed up, I would be mortified.

For waist length virginal hair extensions to a 1 inch base they very easily can. Lol, the waist length part is what makes it cost so much.

[longblondetan]

Her hair wasn't virgin, and in my salon, and speaking from personal experience, the bonded keratin extensions which are the most expensive and look the best, start at about 1500$... and usually get to upwards of 3000 for longer length. But NOT 5000.

[longblondetan]

But again I live in Texas and things tend to be cheaper here, so maybe where she lives is different.

[MandyBeth]

Post home black dye and the request for removal, the comp length wouldn't be waist. Some of the damage is because you wanted black hair, then didn't, so you don't get full comp.

[UltraBella]

Mine is the state statues, but I got them in March from RI. So that amount may have changed. But, I am not seeing that.

I just looked at a current thread (within 2 days ago) on a forum for legal advice and one of the forum experts posted that the limit for small claims court in Rhode Island is $2,500. So I am inclined to think you are correct.

[AnnaJamila]

But again I live in Texas and things tend to be cheaper here, so maybe where she lives is different.

:agape:

That is cheap! Do you live in a big city or a rural area? I've never had it done but the woman I talked to said it would have cost about $6000 and she didn't want waist length. Granted that was in a big city.

Lol, I was so surprised I quoted the wrong post! :p

[teela1978]

I'm slightly confused... you dyed your hair black, went to get it bleached. She bleached it, toned it twice, managed to blow-dry it straight and you walked out with shiny waist-length hair at an approximation of your natural color... then you decided it was too damaged so you cut it really short.

How is this the stylist's fault?

[getoffmyskittle]

She didn't win, exactly. She settled. Stylist probably settled because it is less money than fighting it out, court costs etc. Not because there is a clear right here. I am sorry, it is just hair, not a medical issue or injury.

[MandyBeth]

Well, right now, I can't find a state in the general area that has a 5,000 cap or a 7,500 cap, would allow this type case, and would be finished by now. Plus, there is some fault on OP, so can't get the max anyway.

[longblondetan]

I live between Houston and Galveston, in a small town. So yes, it is probably cheaper.

[Autumnberry]

Ditto what pink.sara said. I'm kinda feeling bad for the stylist, sorry. I'm sure your hair was beautiful, (and I'd bet it is now too), but bleach isn't a kind chemical, whoever's applying it. There will always be some damage from bleaching, it's just a case of how much. :shrug:

In my case, years ago I went to a top styling salon, they used what they called the most gentle peroxide/good quality hair dye, and my hair lost so much protein from the bleaching that it would not hold color--the color fell out in 2 weeks. it felt and looked horrible--just whisps of orange-blonde fluff hanging from my head. Years before, box dyes also ruined my hair. I discovered, like many people, that I can't use chemical dyes.

But today, over a decade later, i use only henna and am very happy.

This is a roundabout way of saying that many people will get lots of damage from bleach and peroxide, regardless of who does it. Advertisements show ladies with dyed hair that looks super-healthy, and it's very misleading, in most cases.

[swearnsue]

I think her hair is worth more than $5,000. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Lianna]

I'm slightly confused... you dyed your hair black, went to get it bleached. She bleached it, toned it twice, managed to blow-dry it straight and you walked out with shiny waist-length hair at an approximation of your natural color... then you decided it was too damaged so you cut it really short.

How is this the stylist's fault?

That's how I understood too! Seems like she cut it because it wasn't as healthy as her virgin hair. Seems like an optional cut to me. I don't have details, so I won't judge.

Her hair didn't fell out. I've seen won court cases for that though. Done my chemical relaxers. But the hair fell out from the bulb...which can be possible permanent damage.

[TrudieCat]

Yeah, bleach burns. I had my scalp burned during a color correction when I was 14, and I saved for a long time to get the expensive work done. My hair looked like crap and some of it broke off. I just figured that's what happens, I got what I asked for.

We live with our mistakes sometimes. OP is not at fault for the stylist's negligence, but neither is the stylist at fault for basically doing what the OP asked her to do.

There are much worse things that can happen than choosing to cut your hair after it suffers damage. I'm frankly not sure it's healthy to be so tied up in hair length as a matter if self-image. And I am saying this as a long hair lover. I apologize if this seems out if line, as I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm just... I mean, this hair is going to grow back for goodness sake. This is not permanent at all.

It really, truly is just hair. Really. Some people don't have hair at all and they are still special, beautiful and unique. I just am flabbergasted by how much value people are assigning to hair here, and I think of myself as one of the most hair-vain people I know.

[Mesmerise]

First, OP congrats on your win! It sounds as if the stylist was negligent, and should indeed have told you about the waiver, AND explained the dangers involved in trying to bleach out your box dye.

Now, guys, I know box dye is damaging... but she box dyed once over virgin hair. This means her hair would STILL have been in pretty good, relatively undamaged condition when she went to the hairdresser! I have a gazillion layers of box dye (yeah, okay, exaggeration...) on the lengths of my hair and it isn't massively damaged (it's not perfect...but I rarely get split ends etc.). So I'm thinking when she went IN to the stylist, her hair wasn't too bad.

Now, why didn't the stylist use something like Color Oops?? Why did she just put on 30vol bleach?? It sounds like she didn't think very carefully about the BEST way of removing the colour from her client's hair. THEN to be out of the salon while the client was getting burned by the bleach?? That's dreadful! She could have ended up with chemical burns. Sure we can all say "bleach burns" BUT AGAIN the stylist should have been there MONITORING her client's hair. Some people's skin is more sensitive than others... My mum told me of a patient of hers (my mum used to be a physician) who had serious scalp burns due to bleach (done in a salon) and where her skin was burned the hair DIDN'T GROW BACK! That's pretty frigging serious, I'd say, whether there are "things more important than hair" or not.

I also don't think this case was about the money. It's about ensuring something like this doesn't happen to some other poor person!

Yes, it's up to all of us to be conscious of what we're doing to our hair. However, many people TRUST stylists to know hair better than they do. I've had stylists do pretty bad things to me in the past, and I trusted them not to damage my hair, because I figured they know more than me! But ultimately, I realised that although they SHOULD know more than me...it is just common sense when someone rips a brush through my hair and it HURTS that hairs will be damaged. When someone hurries up to blow fry my hair and comments that it's taking ages, so she holds the HOT air right against my hair (which had blonde highlights and so was already vulnerable), that it was going to give poor results (yup, hair that looked reasonably good ended up fried... literally frizzled...I had to go home and cut the frizzled, burned bits of hair off). This was AFTER I'd just had about 6" of hair cut too... let me say I was incredibly pissed off!!

I have trusted stylists to know their job... but now I know that I have to stick up for myself, and speak up when something feels wrong!! I've come away from getting my hair permed and have had stubble where the hair has broken off at the roots... this shouldn't happen! The stylist didn't do her job right! Of course, I never had the gumption to take anyone to court or complain :rolleyes:.

I think the OP has also learned a lesson from her experience, and I doubt she'll ever trust a stylist in the same way again! No, not all stylists are bad, many are great. I have had some great ones, and some not so great ones. But I have learned to never just "trust" that a stylist knows what she's doing and that she'd "never intentionally damage my hair".

[longblondetan]

Color remover burns and damages just as badly as bleach. I completely agree she should have been monitoring her hair, and by no means were her actions at all admirable. but she dd as she was asked and got sued for 5000$, sorry that doesn't make sense, to me.

[longblondetan]

I would also like to add that it is not the norm to have a woman very health concious over their hair, so we assume tat shampooing, blowdrying, product and so on and so forth are acceptable unless you tell us otherwise.

[UltraBella]

Well, right now, I can't find a state in the general area that has a 5,000 cap or a 7,500 cap, would allow this type case, and would be finished by now. Plus, there is some fault on OP, so can't get the max anyway.

So I went directly to the RI government website and it lists all the court info. The "Small Claims" section is coming soon, but the civil court listing for the District Court cap is $5,000. Superior Court cap is $10,000. Small claims cap is always a tier down from District court.

Honestly, I have a very hard time believing this scenario. I own two salons, I have seen plenty of hair disasters in my day -some client self induced, some stylist error - but in all my years I have never heard of someone winning a significant judgement because of a color correction gone wrong. I have heard of judgements much much less for damage much more serious, but this, no.

[UltraBella]

First, OP congrats on your win! It sounds as if the stylist was negligent, and should indeed have told you about the waiver, AND explained the dangers involved in trying to bleach out your box dye.

Now, guys, I know box dye is damaging... but she box dyed once over virgin hair. This means her hair would STILL have been in pretty good, relatively undamaged condition when she went to the hairdresser! I have a gazillion layers of box dye (yeah, okay, exaggeration...) on the lengths of my hair and it isn't massively damaged (it's not perfect...but I rarely get split ends etc.). So I'm thinking when she went IN to the stylist, her hair wasn't too bad.

Now, why didn't the stylist use something like Color Oops?? Why did she just put on 30vol bleach?? It sounds like she didn't think very carefully about the BEST way of removing the colour from her client's hair. THEN to be out of the salon while the client was getting burned by the bleach?? That's dreadful! She could have ended up with chemical burns. Sure we can all say "bleach burns" BUT AGAIN the stylist should have been there MONITORING her client's hair. Some people's skin is more sensitive than others... My mum told me of a patient of hers (my mum used to be a physician) who had serious scalp burns due to bleach (done in a salon) and where her skin was burned the hair DIDN'T GROW BACK! That's pretty frigging serious, I'd say, whether there are "things more important than hair" or not.

I also don't think this case was about the money. It's about ensuring something like this doesn't happen to some other poor person!

Yes, it's up to all of us to be conscious of what we're doing to our hair. However, many people TRUST stylists to know hair better than they do. I've had stylists do pretty bad things to me in the past, and I trusted them not to damage my hair, because I figured they know more than me! But ultimately, I realised that although they SHOULD know more than me...it is just common sense when someone rips a brush through my hair and it HURTS that hairs will be damaged. When someone hurries up to blow fry my hair and comments that it's taking ages, so she holds the HOT air right against my hair (which had blonde highlights and so was already vulnerable), that it was going to give poor results (yup, hair that looked reasonably good ended up fried... literally frizzled...I had to go home and cut the frizzled, burned bits of hair off). This was AFTER I'd just had about 6" of hair cut too... let me say I was incredibly pissed off!!

I have trusted stylists to know their job... but now I know that I have to stick up for myself, and speak up when something feels wrong!! I've come away from getting my hair permed and have had stubble where the hair has broken off at the roots... this shouldn't happen! The stylist didn't do her job right! Of course, I never had the gumption to take anyone to court or complain :rolleyes:.

I think the OP has also learned a lesson from her experience, and I doubt she'll ever trust a stylist in the same way again! No, not all stylists are bad, many are great. I have had some great ones, and some not so great ones. But I have learned to never just "trust" that a stylist knows what she's doing and that she'd "never intentionally damage my hair".

Not all box dye is created equal, some is MUCH worse than others.

If you come to my salon and ask my senior stylist to correct a crappy box dye job, she will also use a 20 or 30vol bleach soak. The OP did refer to it as a "bleach soak" several times. I have NEVER seen a bleach soak ruin someone's hair. A soak is diluted in a huge amount of water, trying to essentially bleach wash the dye out. It is NOT the same as slapping full strength 30vol bleach on someone's head.They are different. Then you redeposit or tone the hair. Hair always feels weird after chemical services, if someone jumps the gun and cuts it all off, that's their mistake.

[danacc]

...
Honestly, I have a very hard time believing this scenario. I own two salons, I have seen plenty of hair disasters in my day -some client self induced, some stylist error - but in all my years I have never heard of someone winning a significant judgement because of a color correction gone wrong. I have heard of judgements much much less for damage much more serious, but this, no.

She didn't "win" a judgement. There was no judgement; the claim was settled.

[UltraBella]

She didn't "win" a judgement. There was no judgement; the claim was settled.

Sorry I worded it incorrectly, hopefully you understood the general meaning of my post regardless. Especially since the thread title itself says she "won".

[luthein]

Though, the insurance company would have to evaluate the claim and deem it worthy of settlement. I really wonder if an insurance adjuster would consent to the terms since there was a pre-existing condition involved (DIY hair deposit.) I did a quick online search and didn't find a single successful lawsuit that fit this criteria, has anyone else seen an article that explicitly states a payout?

I'm very interested in the legal process that occurred to achieve this settlement. It could really change the stylist/client relationship.

[fairytalehair]

I dont think there is enough money in the world that would help me get thru having my TB length hair cut to a pixie without my consent. It would be like losing a limb (I have never had short hair). I am very empathetic to you OP. ):

[kwaniesiam]

I'm sorry but this thread makes me sick. You lost your hair and won the claim, that stylist lost their job, livelihood, and may be blacklisted from finding another salon job, essentially destroying their career. I know most salons do a background check and will find out why they were fired from their previous job. The hair will grow back, the stigma attached to what they had to go through will be branded on their career for life.

They may have been in the wrong for the methods they used but in the end, it was your decision to go black and change your mind. Black is notoriously hard to remove. Even going about it the proper way with a color remover, lightener, and a toner you would still have faced massive amounts of damage to go from permanent chemical black dye to blonde and had to go through a major chop anyway. I know because I've done this several times on clients. It's just not chemically possible to do so without damage.

[UltraBella]

Kwaniesiam, not sure if you saw my post where I address the difference between a bleach soak and an actual full head application of 30vol bleach. The OP referred to it as a bleach soak. As a professional, what is your take on it ?

[kwaniesiam]

Kwaniesiam, not sure if you saw my post where I address the difference between a bleach soak and an actual full head application of 30vol bleach. The OP referred to it as a bleach soak. As a professional, what is your take on it ?

I just looked up your post, and you are correct that they are VERY different. A bleach soak would not have caused the damage the OP has described and if a color remover was not available to use that would be the next thing to go to in order to start lifting out the dark color. A full head application of 30 vol bleach would not be done all at once either. It should be applied mid-shaft to the ends and a 20 vol near the scalp as 30 is too harsh for on scalp application and the roots lift faster due to the heat coming from your head.

It if truly was a bleach soak something else went wrong. The stylist may not have prepared the soak properly or it could have also been out of their control. Perhaps the OP has an allergy to one of the ingredients in the bleach which caused the chemical burns. Not all box dyes are the same. Some contain things that can react very badly to other chemicals. Most box dyes are also excessively harsh on the hair. They usually contain 20-40 vol. developer depending on the shade, which damages the hair far more than a professional color mixed with the proper ratios and peroxide. For going a dark color like black, 5 or 10 vol is the highest you need. Another factor is that some hair cannot handle chemical abuse as well as others, regardless of if it is healthy or not.

[UltraBella]

I just looked up your post, and you are correct that they are VERY different. A bleach soak would not have caused the damage the OP has described and if a color remover was not available to use that would be the next thing to go to in order to start lifting out the dark color. A full head application of 30 vol bleach would not be done all at once either. It should be applied mid-shaft to the ends and a 20 vol near the scalp as 30 is too harsh for on scalp application and the roots lift faster due to the heat coming from your head.

It if truly was a bleach soak something else went wrong. The stylist may not have prepared the soak properly or it could have also been out of their control. Perhaps the OP has an allergy to one of the ingredients in the bleach which caused the chemical burns. Not all box dyes are the same. Some contain things that can react very badly to other chemicals. Most box dyes are also excessively harsh on the hair. They usually contain 20-40 vol. developer depending on the shade, which damages the hair far more than a professional color mixed with the proper ratios and peroxide. For going a dark color like black, 5 or 10 vol is the highest you need. Another factor is that some hair cannot handle chemical abuse as well as others, regardless of if it is healthy or not.

Thank you ;)

[oktobergoud]

Would you say the same if we were talking about your skin? what about your teeth?
How would you feel if you pay for a facial and end up with a 3rd degree burn at your face? Or what about going to fix a cavity and ending up with 3 teeth missing? The skin regenerates, teeth can be fixed with fakes... but it is okay????

It is not “just hair“. If someone takes the time and effort to care and grow waist line hair is not just hair. Is a work of patience, love, self-esteem, pride, identity, personality... it is a whole lot more. If you don't know probably is because you haven't feel this way about yourself or your hair in your entire life.
Is a part of yourself that you have been caring for a loooong time to reach that length. It is not fair that someone ruins your hair and because “is only hair“ can keep ruining others' hair too...


I totally disagree... Indeed this happens every day in all the world... I am talking about the part of terrible stylists ruining hairs, or dentists ruining smiles, or cosmeticians ruining skins, or plumbers ruining faucets.... and so and so... Mistakes happen, a bad day too, and bad pros shouldn't be allowed to ruin things and walk away.

About the money... I am not saying it is okay or not, but probably if they had to pay for their mistakes they wouldn't go out to have an smoke while they are supposed to be working and attending their customers, don't you think?



Well, that says a lot about yourself... You are willing to do that, many people doesn't. I don't think we speak the same language.
Money is not the issue, is the damage being compensated somehow... I did get some money after a motorcycle accident. I don't think anyone would crash their motorcycle against a car just to get money... Money was the compensation for the damage 'caused, but if I could go back I wouldn't have change the crash for the money, nor I think the driver of the car would.
No money can erase a traumatic experience , regardless the experience. For some people having a cyst is enough to get depressed while for others losing a family member is “just life“... We can't judge others based in our own feelings. It is not fair.



I am not in the US event though I lived there in the past. I live in EU in a first world country where a third world hairdresser (to be nice to him, not meant to be mean to 3rd world people) ruined my hair 5 years ago.
In my country you can sue your hairdresser, and probably at yours too, yet those things do not happen as often as in america... why? because you are not taken seriously if you claim about something so superficial as “just hair“. I had to go over the worst experience in my life, in public. Seeing how my hair was falling in chunks from my scalp, seeing others customers horrified face staring at me. Being left with horrible spots and burns on my scalp and with 3 hairs left on the lenght and! The hairdresser not admiting his mistake of bleaching my hair at 40 vol and putting me under the dryer.
I didn't have the chance to claim, i just had to walk home, cry, and cut my hair myself.
I haven't visit another saloon since nor I will in the future. The only person is allowed to touch my hair is my own sister who was a hairdresser.

I have to tell you a year and a half after this happened to me he ruined another client's hair (among many others). This time he wasn't lucky as she was a gypsy... few days later his saloon was burnt intentionally during the night.
I can't tell I felt okay or happy about this. I just think if I could have sued him when he ruined my hair I would stopped him from his unprofessional practice and I would have saved many other people and himself from that terrible end.

Everything happens for a reason.
In my case I know enough to do my hair at home without touching a saloon, thanks to his terrible lesson. In his case he has not been able to open another saloon and went broken... of course he did not have an insurance.



Don't be too hard to yourself... I, personally can't hate you 'cause my jar of hate was emptied by that hair assassin.... And i understand that if you choose to do something and goes wrong there is nothing to do but be consequent and learn from your mistakes, but! if you PAY for a professional to do the same of course you can claim for it, specially if he has been negligent.

Short hair looks great, just like sex feels great.... only if you choose it... if it is imposed does not feel that great.

Sorry about my long story but I couldn't take it!!!!!



Long indeed! I'm not going to respond on everything but first of all: yes, we are very very different. To me, hair is just hair! So that's why I feel about this whole scenario. I personally can not imagine (anymore) that someone could feel so awful about something that happened to her hair.

And you know why? I was in the same boat, I was growing my hair out from a pixie, for YEARS, it was APL which was already long for me. And black, jet black, dyed with a boxdye for years. And I ruined it with bleach, myself! Heck, I wanted to go to a hairstylist but none of them wanted to do it, because it would be too damaging. So I thought, what the heck, why not try it myself? Well, I got my platinum hair, and I got a pixie. And hair falling out like crazy! When I was growing my hair out, I would not let anyone touch my hair but myself, my mother was begging me for her to trim my hair, but I wouldn't let her, it had to grow! But when I ruined my hair myself, and had a pixie, I actually learned to appreciate it. Heck, I loved it! Why could I ever want long hair in the first place? I had a pixie for many years afterwards..

Of course, not saying that the OP should feel like this, definitely not! But, I have been in the same boat (KIND OF, not entirely the same of course, but ruined hair with bleach and had to chop it all off, started to fall out etc.) only I did it by myself. No reason to sue myself mm ;) But still, if it was done with a stylist, I personally would just be 'mm well that sucks, I just have to live with it!'

But that is ME. And that is why I can not understand why someone would sue and get 5000 dollars...

But I think that is why I might be different to a lot of people here. While I think my hair is very important, to me, it's still JUST hair. Nothing more or less. It will grow back!

Now you were talking about skin and teeth, which in my opinion is something entirely different! Hair simply grows back, it just takes a while. Skin might not heal and will leave scars, teeth may be replaced by fake ones but maybe that might give dental problems. To me, that is so much different, I can't even understand why you compare them to hair! But hey, again, that's me ;)

I think it would be different when, for instance, a person would be BALD and have permanent damage to their scalp so the hair can not grow back fully. Of course, that is a totally different matter to me.. but someone ruined your hair and you had to chop it off into a pixie? That sucks, but to me PERSONALLY not the end of the world.

[MinderMutsig]

*mind blown*

I don't understand that they settled. If I were the salon owner or worked for the insurance company (were they even insured for things like this?) I would have let you go through with the suit. If there is any justice in the world and any sanity left in the US court system, the only thing that would have gotten you is restitution of what that salon visit cost you and ridicule for waisting the courts time with such a lawsuit. Oh and you having to compensate the salon owner for time, and money wasted on a frivolous suit. What's next, suing over a broken nail?

With all due respect to the poster here who described their horrible experiences and real physical damage from a salon visit (sorry, forgot your name) but your experience has almost nothing in common with the OP's. She did not have chemical burns, she experienced a burning sensation which is very common with dye or bleach treatments and to be expected if you abuse your hair this much in this short amount of time. Her hair also did not melt or fall off like yours did. It just felt differently and damaged so she decided to cut it. Of course her texture changed as she damaged her hair and then decided to pay someone to damage it even more. She chemically treated her fine, strawberry blond hair multiple times in only a few days!


I really wish the OP the best on her hair journey and hope her hair grows back fast because I know what it's like to have dye and cutter remorse but that is really all this suit was about. OP not being satisfied with the outcome or her own choices and lashing out at the wrong people without taking responsibility for herself.

[Zenity]

Now you were talking about skin and teeth, which in my opinion is something entirely different! Hair simply grows back, it just takes a while. Skin might not heal and will leave scars, teeth may be replaced by fake ones but maybe that might give dental problems. To me, that is so much different, I can't even understand why you compare them to hair! But hey, again, that's me ;)

I think it would be different when, for instance, a person would be BALD and have permanent damage to their scalp so the hair can not grow back fully. Of course, that is a totally different matter to me.. but someone ruined your hair and you had to chop it off into a pixie? That sucks, but to me PERSONALLY not the end of the world.

I have compared hair to skin and teeth because if you get a chemical burn from a bad work your hair won't regenerate and grow.

I have seen 2 different people having patches on their scalp due to a very agressive bleaching process.
I, myself, had several scars on my scalp from burning it when went to that stylist. 3 or 4 patches would not grow hair for months after the disaster. I was devastated. Slowly the hair came back in most of them except 3.
Has been years now and my hair does -sort of- grow everywhere now, but the places where it fel due to the burns are prone to get bald as I am guessing the quality of the skin on the scalp or the hair is not the same than the rest.

For me showering and seeing a big streak of hair falling is not uncommon, if I check my head afterwards, sure enough, is one of the patches where I was burnt that couldn't take it anymore.

That is my experience, and I can tell you that the amount of money I had spent on dermatologist, doctors, cures, remedies, etc. is not cheap either.

Again, if I was the one who ruined my hair by my own methods I wouldn't be complaining. But I don't think I would have reach the point of burning my scalp/hair neither.

I remember telling the man about the burning sensation under the hook and he kept telling me that was normal because of the heat.
When bleaching home I stay away from heat. NEVER touch my scalp anymore, Use 10 vol developer and check every 10-15 min. At least if something goes wrong I can stop it immediately instead waiting for someone who is supposed to have a lot more knowledge than me to tell everything is fine when is not.

As said, there are good and bad professionals everywhere. Even good professionals can have a bad day, make a mistake, or be challenged by unwanted and unpredictable results. I know all of that as my sister has been a hairdresser for years.

That is not what I am talking about, but negligence being the reason for a bad job result.

[Demetrue]

I think we need to keep in mind the legal aspects when looking at a legal case. IF the professional did NOT have client sign waiver (and the professional was always supposed to supply legal waiver) AND the professional used a chemical incorrectly (put "off scalp" bleach product ON scalp, left bleach on 60 minutes instead of 30 minutes) then there are legal grounds for a law suit. If the client chooses to bring the case to court, then it is up to the jury/judge to decide whether the case has any merit. In this case, the professional being sued decided to pay the client a sum of money rather than proceed to a court hearing - we don't know why the professional made that decision, whether they felt they might be found guilty and have to pay a larger sum, or whether they just did not want to face the hassle and expense of a trial, when they knew insurance would cover the settlement fee. Maybe this professional had a past history of "hair nightmares" and was already being monitored by the salon manager and this was just the last straw - we don't know everything that happened leading up to this event.

[Rebecca.1905]

This! Also, I personally find 5000 dollars ridiculous for 'just' hair. I know people are going to get pissed off by me saying this.. but.. well I just find it ridiculous. This could never ever happen in my country! And I'm glad it can't, honestly.

If I could get 5000 dollars for a hairstylist to butcher my hair, than I'd gladly would :D Sorry, not trying to be rude here (although I probably am to you), but I'm just honest. I can not understand why someone would get 5000 dollars, just because their hair was ruined :s

I'm not judging you (OP), so don't see this as a personal attack! I'm just astounded that things like this can happen in other countries (I guess you life in America? I know I'm sounding terribly stereotypical but I think things like that can only happen in America :P)

I know everybody is probably going to hate me right now.. but hey, whatever ;)

Short hair can be awesome too ;) (And I can now it because I've ruined my own hair with bleach many times :P)

I agree with your views that the judgment wasn't appropriate, but do you think maybe next time you could avoid insulting my country? Because that was full on uncool, not necessary, and rude.

[princessp]

I dont think there is enough money in the world that would help me get thru having my TB length hair cut to a pixie without my consent. It would be like losing a limb (I have never had short hair). I am very empathetic to you OP. ):

Yeah I totally agree with you here. For instance, if someone cut my hair off without my consent money would be no consolation. But if I dyed my hair black I would never expect I could get it back to blonde without major damage. I don't have a solid opinion on the negligence part because I don't have all the info (and it isn't my job to decide if the OP should be compensated and/or how much her hair is worth).

I'm finding this thread rather interesting reading everyone's take on this event/the legal parts/what hair is worth etc. OP, I'm sorry this happened to you though.

[bluesnowflake]

After reading the real story, I do agree that there were some serious faults on the part of the stylist and the salon, and though I personally wouldn't sue, I can see why you did. I do think, though, that you should have expected quite a bit of damage from even the best stylist going from black to blonde. That involves a LOT of bleach, which is never kind to your hair.

[sally_neuf]

I think that if a person does his/her job in a negligent way, they should be prepared to face the consequences.
whatever it is. Even cutting the yard in the wrong way, you're paid to do a job, big or small, and you shouldn't be careless about it because it's "just hair" .. "just grass" because then someday, someone would say "it's just a kidney transplant"
I'm sorry but I've heard this excuse so many times "why they called the cops? the guy stoled just a hat" "just a blackberry" "it's just a scooter" "just a car"
If you let one people be negligent with their work, then everyone has the same right

[pink.sara]

[SIZE=2]


[B][SIZE=2]"Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this"

As for this comment, you obviously weren't the one who had to cut over 25'' off your hair unwillingly & disheartedly. The 1st sentence is EXACTLY what happened to me!!! It was a bleach soak with 30vol. for almost an hour & then 2 different semi-permanent dyes to mask her mistake. Blow-fried to "perfection". I think this counts for more than enough to cause irreversible damage to MY hair!
Don't be so quick to judge until you put yourself in somebody else's shoes.

OP, Ill respond to you directly rather than discussing other responses posted in this thread.
You told me not to be so quick to judge until I put myself in your shoes? Well I've walked more than a mile in your shoes to use a cliche.
The only reason my hair is now on its way to APL is because I decided to change my hair colour from chemically dyed black to blonde.

Thats right, Ive been there done that, and I might add, went from 42 inches of classic superthick black silk to a fried chin length bob.

But the difference is I accepted black to blonde is the most damaging hair colour process there is. And when it broke (after more than 6 sessions of 40vol and 30vol bleach and 2 bleach baths) I didn't blame anyone else, I just enjoyed having it bleach blonde for a while then started growing when I got tired of it. 2 years later I am finally rid of the fried bits.

Yes your stylist may have done a pretty poor job, and having a *** halfway through is pretty shoddy. But if you feel your scalp burning SAY SOMETHING, its your head?! (Oh and on scalp bleach always stings, thats the price I willingly pay for no roots every 4 weeks)

I will also say though as someone who uses 40vol bleach on scalp for 60+ minutes every few weeks I actually dont believe you needed to cut it all off. I think you made a snap decision like you had previously with the black box dye and then the correction, and later regretted it. :(

Yes peoples hair reacts differently but a bleach bath is an extremely diluted version of a full bleach and in all my years of colouring friends hair white (see a few of them in my albums) I have never known hair to irrepairably break or scalp burns to occur from one.

I think if you are going to change your appearance dramatically and with the use of chemicals it is your responsibility to research what can happen and accept possible side effects. Really a waiver for cutting and dying hair? What next, fake tan waivers? Waivers for new jeans that may leak indigo, waivers for supermarkets because there may be nuts in the products you can buy there?! I may be being facetious, but I dont want to live in that world, and thats what ridiculous small claims like this push us towards.

I'm sorry you feel so hard done by, and I can appreciate how inportant hair is, after all Ive spent the last 2 years nursing my own to recovery. But it is just hair, it will grow.
That stylist probably deserved to be reprimanded or disciplined by her employer for not attending to you properly, but she did not deserve to lose her job. I hope she is still employable.
Maybe you should think about that before gloating on a public forum.

[MandyBeth]

Simple, if this case goes to trial, it's straight small claims. It doesn't move to District or higher. An insurance company won't settle for higher than the level the case is at. Plus, max damages means stylist is 100% fault, when there is maybe 50%.

[xcrunr2go]

EXCUSE ME PINK SARA but there ARE waivers for spray tanning, it's formulated with sugar so diabetics need to be aware that it raises your blood sugar level. ALSO, I was NOT gloating I was stating a sense of relief & closure. Next time, I will make sure to only complain on this thread as you are quite good at that. I DID feel my scalp burning but couldn't say anything because the entire staff was outside smoking! !!

[pink.sara]

Funny, all the spray tans I've had here in the UK? No waivers, not once.

And complaining? You're waay off base. When do I complain about bad hairstylists, or much else for that matter? I've asked for advice, expressed frustration, and posted one whiny thread I can think of in my entire time here. That's kind of what forums are for no? Advice and having a vent and such.

I find your story very hard to believe or swallow.
If you feel the need to get personal and start slinging insults I suggest you go block me.

And even if they were outside smoking you obviously knew where they were... Doesn't take much to go say something. Especially if you were as concerned as you make out.

[ktani]

[size="2"]

As a consumer, sometimes I get roped into making a purchase based on things like the name or color. Yes, it happens to all of us. In light of this, choosing this particular box color wasn't hard. Beautiful model, great name, exactly what I wanted. Unfortunately, yes I did do some damage to my hair, but hardly any compared to this awful stylist. I had virgin hair prior to the box dye. Of course I didn't like the outcome, but if I had a choice to change that outcome I would have walked away presented with the facts. The facts were, there was a waiver that the stylist failed to read/give to me. Upon seeing a "waiver" for receiving a hair service I would have walked right out that door for otherwise. Similar to the waiver I was shown recently for laser tattoo removal. The laser center legally have to tell you what the risks involved in "erasing" your tattoo. Among those are: blisters, hypo/hyper pigmentation, scarring & the list continues. Of course a lot of salons overlook this form as a means to an end. It would scare away the customers. Or a chunk of them anyhow. Not only did she take advantage of the fact that I didn't know a whole lot about hair color, but she was NEGLIGENT. While the bleach soak was sitting in my hair, I wanted someone to come over & check it as it was starting to burn. The stylists had gone outside for a cigarette break (I could smell it throughout the salon). Mind you, it was a Sunday so there were 2 stylists on & 1 girl @ the front desk. All of which were outside. About the insurance premiums, that's why people have insurance. Maybe people would make less mistakes if they didn't have it. The beneficial actions you speak of. . .where are you going with this?

[B][SIZE=2]"Yes if someone cut it maliciously or ruins it with excessive or damaging chemicals. But I hardly think one 30vol bleaching that you asked for counts as this"

As for this comment, you obviously weren't the one who had to cut over 25'' off your hair unwillingly & disheartedly. The 1st sentence is EXACTLY what happened to me!!! It was a bleach soak with 30vol. for almost an hour & then 2 different semi-permanent dyes to mask her mistake. Blow-fried to "perfection". I think this counts for more than enough to cause irreversible damage to MY hair!

I chose to file the small claim only after I was presented with the facts. She failed to have me sign their waiver (I only knew there was a waiver because the girl @ the front desk advised me she was supposed to have me sign it after I called back to complain) & trying EVERY hair repair remedy under the sun, hundreds of dollars later & humiliation of trying to hold on the the sad attempt of waist length locks then having to cut it to pixie length (aka little boy cut) I had a RIGHT to file this claim. I filed for as much as I could without having to hire an attorney. Originally $7,500. I settled on $5,000 because it's not about the money, it's about this NEVER happening again. I filed a formal complaint with the State Board of Cosmetology as well. The stylist has since been fired from that salon. Don't be so quick to judge until you put yourself in somebody else's shoes.

First, I am so sorry that this happened to you!

Second, which seems to be overlooked is that you would have received NO money if your claim had not been valid and negligence was not the issue.

That is why the salon had insurance. That is why the stylist lost her job. There may have been a history with her previously.

No settlement is made for an amount like that lightly, withought taking all facts into consideration, including "pain and suffering" as well as case law on similar incidents. An insurance adjustor's job is to research just that and decide on a settlement with less money if possible, than a court case may allow.

By settling, an insurance company is not obligated to reveal all other issues involved in the decision that may or may not have been revealed if the case went to court.

While such claims and settlements usually remain private and no names are given here, a claim and result such as this will prevent this salon from making such errors in the future.

While it is a shame for anyone to lose their job in such an economy, their professional performance was evaluated and I have no doubt that the decision to terminate employment was not made without cause.

If the claim had not been made, others may have suffered worse consequenses when negligence is behind them.

[danacc]

Sorry I worded it incorrectly, hopefully you understood the general meaning of my post regardless. Especially since the thread title itself says she "won".

I apologize if I offended you, UltraBella, I didn't mean my previous post to single you out. I quoted your post because it was the last one I saw that appeared to have the misconception that a judgement was rendered by some sort of impartial party to this. Several other posts seemed to have the same misunderstanding. And it is precisely because the thread title used the word "won" that makes it easier for some (although not necessarily you) to interpret that a judgement was actually rendered on the case when in fact it wasn't.

Demetrue said it better than I did.

[MiamiPineapple]

I have mixed feelings on this, mostly because something similar happened to me. I too went to a hairdresser to get black dye taken out. She assured me that it WOULD NOT damage my hair at all. Well, 8 months later its still dry and the ends still break. I also had to hack it off up to shoulder from about waist. I would have never done this if I knew it would damage my hair at all. I even asked her 5 more times to be sure before she started. However, at the end of the day I still chose to be there. I just wish she was more honest about the outcome....

[Little_Bird]

Congratulations on winning your cause. More people should take this kind of action...

And I'm sorry for your hair, but it will grow back! Happy growing :flower:

[xcrunr2go]

You seem like a very negative person overall & it's not like I was about to go running around the salon with chemicals on my head!!! Do you think that would have been a smart thing to do? Ruin my clothes just to get the stylist who was SUPPOSED to be attending to her client?

[pepperminttea]

xcrunr2go: A random question - had you ever used bleach before? I use it to bleach the hairs on my upper lip, and it does sting and feel as if it's burning. It doesn't actually burn the skin, besides a making it slightly pink for a few hours, but it's certainly not pleasant.

I'm just wondering if you were aware of the sensation before this happened - did it actually harm and mark your scalp or was it just the normal bleach-related painful tingling?

[UltraBella]

You seem like a very negative person overall & it's not like I was about to go running around the salon with chemicals on my head!!! Do you think that would have been a smart thing to do? Ruin my clothes just to get the stylist who was SUPPOSED to be attending to her client?

We are not all going to agree with you. I honestly don't even believe you, but that doesn't really matter. If you are going to post a thread like this, be prepared for positive and negative responses. That's part of having a diverse group of people and having an open discussion.

[pink.sara]

Yes. Getting up is exactly what I expect you to do if you are worried your head is burning?! All salons use tabards and protective garments, that's what they are for. And last time I bleached my hair I did the hoovering. :shrug:

As for coming across on a forum as a negative person, honestly Im not bothered. I'm not negative, I pay people plenty of compliments and thanks. Do my best to be polite and try to be aware of the fact my rather dry sarcastic English humour can fall flat.
Just because I disagree with something and have the balls to call a spade a spade, a fig a fig etc, doesn't mean I am negative.

[UltraBella]

I apologize if I offended you, UltraBella, I didn't mean my previous post to single you out. I quoted your post because it was the last one I saw that appeared to have the misconception that a judgement was rendered by some sort of impartial party to this. Several other posts seemed to have the same misunderstanding. And it is precisely because the thread title used the word "won" that makes it easier for some (although not necessarily you) to interpret that a judgement was actually rendered on the case when in fact it wasn't.

Demetrue said it better than I did.

No offense taken, you had a valid point. I just wanted to clarify that I am not confused ;)

[ktani]

I recently successfully settled a claim of my own, not against a salon and not hair related.

It was about a slip and fall injury that I sustained over a year ago that I settled on my own, before a year was up.

A claim needs to be made right away, there are deadlines. I supplied all relevant medicals and told the same story repeatedly (honesty counts).

I got to know the insurance adjustor fairly well as it was just her and I at the end, negotiating.

The point is that I learned a great deal from her. If I had asked for the moon in terms of an amount of money as people are prone to do it, the claim would have gone to court and I probably would have gotten the same amount of money but with added costs and time involved.

Both she and I researched case law and all factors were taken into consideration and meticulously looked at.

I also pursued the matter so that such negligence would not happen to someone else. I suffered pain for 4 weeks because of what happened that could have been avoided. Fortunately for me my injury has had no lasting physical effects and I did not settle until I was sure that it did not, which would have increased the amount I settled for at the end.

ETA: Deadlines for a claim vary with the claim. One needs to research that.

[MandyBeth]

*facepalm* Ruin clothes that are easily replaced or let a chemical burn your hair that will take time to grow out. I have had a chemical burn from dye. It is nothing like what you had. I didn't blame the dye, I am the idiot who put the dye on my head.

[leslissocool]

xcrunr2go: A random question - had you ever used bleach before? I use it to bleach the hairs on my upper lip, and it does sting and feel as if it's burning. It doesn't actually burn the skin, besides a making it slightly pink for a few hours, but it's certainly not pleasant.

I'm just wondering if you were aware of the sensation before this happened - did it actually harm and mark your scalp or was it just the normal bleach-related painful tingling?

Actually bleach dissolves your hair and BURNS literally, causing actual scars. There are cases where the hair NEVER grows back. Even box dye-bleach mixes can cause this if left too long.

There is a reason why a hairstylist has to go get certified. You know what that exam's purpose is? To make sure they can safely use these strong chemicals. And that they don't burn the scalp off someone.

Seriously OP I am really sorry this happened to you. I too was unaware of the damage when I picked up box dyes. Now you know, and hopefully the money will go to pampering your hair and TONS of coconut oil! My hair has come such a long way and honestly that's what matters to me.

I have no sympathy for the hair stylist who went out to smoke instead of timing and checking on her client's head full of harmful chemicals. THAT is neglect and I would've gotten that woman fired too. What's the point of paying for their education and their "safe" use of chemicals?

And yes, I have gone from black to blond and green and purple and etc. I did have a chemical cut ( my hair was so brittle it broke into a weird layered cut). And I did this ALL myself. I would've been so utterly pissed if someone's professional neglect would've caused me permanent scalp damage.

[oktobergoud]

I have compared hair to skin and teeth because if you get a chemical burn from a bad work your hair won't regenerate and grow.

I have seen 2 different people having patches on their scalp due to a very agressive bleaching process.
I, myself, had several scars on my scalp from burning it when went to that stylist. 3 or 4 patches would not grow hair for months after the disaster. I was devastated. Slowly the hair came back in most of them except 3.
Has been years now and my hair does -sort of- grow everywhere now, but the places where it fel due to the burns are prone to get bald as I am guessing the quality of the skin on the scalp or the hair is not the same than the rest.

For me showering and seeing a big streak of hair falling is not uncommon, if I check my head afterwards, sure enough, is one of the patches where I was burnt that couldn't take it anymore.

That is my experience, and I can tell you that the amount of money I had spent on dermatologist, doctors, cures, remedies, etc. is not cheap either.

Again, if I was the one who ruined my hair by my own methods I wouldn't be complaining. But I don't think I would have reach the point of burning my scalp/hair neither.

I remember telling the man about the burning sensation under the hook and he kept telling me that was normal because of the heat.
When bleaching home I stay away from heat. NEVER touch my scalp anymore, Use 10 vol developer and check every 10-15 min. At least if something goes wrong I can stop it immediately instead waiting for someone who is supposed to have a lot more knowledge than me to tell everything is fine when is not.

As said, there are good and bad professionals everywhere. Even good professionals can have a bad day, make a mistake, or be challenged by unwanted and unpredictable results. I know all of that as my sister has been a hairdresser for years.

That is not what I am talking about, but negligence being the reason for a bad job result.


Don't want to go into further discussion.. but just wanted to say that I meant the OP's situation, when I was talking about the hair. I also said "it is different when the scalp is been damaged so much it can not grow back fully". What I meant with 'it's different' is that I do think it is worth claiming for etc. From what I understand from this thread, is that her hair is 'just' very damaged (and she had some burnings on her scalp, yes, but I have not yet read about hair falling out or never growing back again. It might be the case but I have to admit that I didn't read anything)

I was talking about the OP and this thread, not your personal experience! I'm very sorry that it happened to you, really. And I'm not attacking you or anything, but I just wanted to say what I thought about the original thread.

I probably might not sound clear but I'm very tired haha. Anyway, long story short: I do think it is a different matter (as in, you have a right to sue, for instance) when your scalp is severely damaged and your hair isn't going to grow back again. THEN you can compare with severe skin or teeth conditioners. However, I think this is not the case with the OP (although she had burns on her scalp, which is really bad but it doesn't mean that her hair will fall out and never grow back, for instance. it could be, of course! But I think that will take a little longer to find out) so that is why I thought it was ridiculous to get 5000 dollars for. I understand how dreadful and painful it must be to her, and to you. I can imagine it, really.. but the whole sueing thing, that I just don't get. But then again, in my country lawsuits like this never happen (well at least I THINK so.. I have never heard about it).. so I guess I'm just flabbergasted.

But I don't want to go into this over and over again, we have different thoughts about this anyway ;)

[oktobergoud]

I agree with your views that the judgment wasn't appropriate, but do you think maybe next time you could avoid insulting my country? Because that was full on uncool, not necessary, and rude.

I will try my best ;)

[leslissocool]

Don't want to go into further discussion.. but just wanted to say that I meant the OP's situation, when I was talking about the hair. I also said "it is different when the scalp is been damaged so much it can not grow back fully". What I meant with 'it's different' is that I do think it is worth claiming for etc. From what I understand from this thread, is that her hair is 'just' very damaged (and she had some burnings on her scalp, yes, but I have not yet read about hair falling out or never growing back again. It might be the case but I have to admit that I didn't read anything)

I was talking about the OP and this thread, not your personal experience! I'm very sorry that it happened to you, really. And I'm not attacking you or anything, but I just wanted to say what I thought about the original thread.

I probably might not sound clear but I'm very tired haha. Anyway, long story short: I do think it is a different matter (as in, you have a right to sue, for instance) when your scalp is severely damaged and your hair isn't going to grow back again. THEN you can compare with severe skin or teeth conditioners. However, I think this is not the case with the OP (although she had burns on her scalp, which is really bad but it doesn't mean that her hair will fall out and never grow back, for instance. it could be, of course! But I think that will take a little longer to find out) so that is why I thought it was ridiculous to get 5000 dollars for. I understand how dreadful and painful it must be to her, and to you. I can imagine it, really.. but the whole sueing thing, that I just don't get. But then again, in my country lawsuits like this never happen (well at least I THINK so.. I have never heard about it).. so I guess I'm just flabbergasted.

But I don't want to go into this over and over again, we have different thoughts about this anyway ;)

Here's the deal though, when you go to the stylist you are paying for her knowledge. You are PAYING for her ability to safely use those chemicals. In the OP's case she did not do it safely. Do you think that when she was getting her certifications she went out to smoke while using bleach? I don't think so.

When you put this kind of chemical on someone you HAVE to be able to do it in a way that it will not harm them person. The OP got left completely alone for a significant amount of time with harsh chemicals. Some skins are different, if her scalp was able to stand it for one hour you think yours would? I KNOW mine wouldn't since I have very sensitive skin. If I was in the OP's position I would have patches. THAT is NOT safe use of a chemical. Her licence should be revoked at minimum just for leaving her paying costumer unattended.

Why is it that the OP has to come out with incorrigible damage for her to be able to take action?

Thank GOD she didn't (and you never know, her hair might grow thin from now on). But again, and again, and again that is the reason why you need a LICENCE to work with these chemicals for a living. You go to school and study the science behind all this. The stylist is supposed to have knowledge on all of this. She went to smoke when someone has chemicals on her hair that could cause burns and permanent baldness? Gosh the OP would have been better off doing it herself following a box's instructions.

[ellen732]

As a hairstylist I must say that I would never, nor was I trained, to use bleach in corrective coloring. Color removers are used first, then perhaps I would foil the clients hair after that (definitely not in the same appointment) to try to get them back to where they want to be. Color correction in a salon is big bucks and big business, you need to know what you are doing. 100% of color correction clients are people who screwed their color up at home.

[Lianna]

About oktobergoud's comment about United States. I don't think she meant this kind of sues only happen there, but that high compensations (for the case) are notorius there. We have smaller cases all over the world and this is one of them.

If I may speak professionally. I'm not from USA and my (Law) professor once made a comparison about lawsuit compensations made in there and where I live. Something that would be here for about 100k was there for 5bi.

I didn't see a harm/offense tone in her post and I hope people just read it as it is. A comparison between what happens in different places of the world.

Some people just respond without reading the world thread.

. she didn't win a case
. she didn't have a chemical cut, she cut it herself after perceiving damage
. she didn't have permanent damage inflicted on the scalp

Those are the reasons some people think the amount of compensation was too much, plus she lost her job. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any compensation because I don't know details. Generally, if the hair falls out on its own, there will be compensation (perhaps even if broke at the root on its own). It's like a case of plastic surgery, there's some expectations to be met, and sueing the surgeon is pretty much standard, even if the person isn't "ruined"/scarred, etc.

Personally, I don't see the big deal about the stylist stepping outside (walking distance I supose) for a few minutes. If something feels wrong (too much burning), she could have gone outside and request for attention.

About winning something on settle has a merit on its own. Not always. I've worked in that department and people settle just to avoid further costs/time/possible record/reputation of the company, etc.

[leslissocool]

As a hairstylist I must say that I would never, nor was I trained, to use bleach in corrective coloring. Color removers are used first, then perhaps I would foil the clients hair after that (definitely not in the same appointment) to try to get them back to where they want to be. Color correction in a salon is big bucks and big business, you need to know what you are doing. 100% of color correction clients are people who screwed their color up at home.

that's what my BF said who has a licence, she went to a school with a good name and all. I lifted permanent black hair dye from my hair with little to no damage this way recently and it worked (my hair though is almost black, so one can't tell until I am in the sun and you can see my henna). It was to my understanding that usually people try something less damaging before getting the bleach out. At least that's what my friend did when she worked.

[Bandia Rua]

After going through troubles with a prior employer and now troubles with an idiot land lady, I am so sick of some people being able to do whatever they want to another and not having to be held accountable for anything theyve done. GOOD FOR YOU OP! I hope you do get your settlement and that you get to spend it on whatever you need to get your hair the way you want it. Congrats! :cheese:

[ktani]

About winning something on settle has a merit on its own. Not always. I've worked in that department and people settle just to avoid further costs/time/possible record/reputation of the company, etc.

Agreed that every case is different and while all merits should be considered during settlement, they may not be in all cases. That is what courts are for and often do very well.

In this case, the OP stated
Originally Posted by xcrunr2go
"The facts were, there was a waiver that the stylist failed to read/give to me. Upon seeing a "waiver" for receiving a hair service I would have walked right out that door for otherwise. Similar to the waiver I was shown recently for laser tattoo removal. The laser center legally have to tell you what the risks involved in "erasing" your tattoo. Among those are: blisters, hypo/hyper pigmentation, scarring & the list continues. Of course a lot of salons overlook this form as a means to an end. It would scare away the customers. Or a chunk of them anyhow. Not only did she take advantage of the fact that I didn't know a whole lot about hair color, but she was NEGLIGENT. While the bleach soak was sitting in my hair, I wanted someone to come over & check it as it was starting to burn. The stylists had gone outside for a cigarette break (I could smell it throughout the salon). Mind you, it was a Sunday so there were 2 stylists on & 1 girl @ the front desk. All of which were outside. About the insurance premiums, that's why people have insurance."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1764274&postcount=16

There was a waiver she was not given to read, understand and sign which was specifically drawn up for such instances, to prevent such claims. It is not just about being given the waiver to skim over and sign either.

It is important that one understands what one is reading and its implications before signing it. A waiver should be clear and there should be someone knowledgeable to interpret it if necessary and answer questions one may have. None of that was done.

Also, with everyone needed absent and a client unfamiliar with exactly what was going on aside from discomfort, there was no immediate assistance available. Someone should have been checking on her frequently and not leaving her alone.

[ktani]

This website goes much further than that in recommendations.
http://www.hairfinder.com/hair4/highlights-risky.htm
"Your stylist should always perform a strand test and a patch test before every color (or other chemical) service to make sure that you are not sensitive to the formulas being used and to discover how your hair will respond to those formulas. These are safety measures that will prevent you from experiencing potentially catastrophic results if your hair is unsuited to the processes or you prove to be sensitive to the chemicals involved.

As a client, it’s your job to be responsible for your own hair. NEVER sign any waiver for chemical services without the performance of both a patch test and strand test. Many salons have begun using these “waivers” in order to relieve themselves of the liability for services that go wrong when a patch or strand test would have allowed them to prove the safety of the service for the client (or proven that the service was not safe). If you sign a salon’s waiver without the appropriate tests being done you may find yourself with no recourse if the service goes poorly (depending on where you live)."

[ktani]

Just to be very clear, I have nothing but respect for licensed professionals. Not all though are equal to the tasks they perform.

http://www.hairfinder.com/about.htm
"Perhaps the most popular feature of the site is the Ask Hairfinder (http://www.hairfinder.com/askhairquestions.htm) section which allows visitors to submit their own personal questions to be answered by licensed hair professionals."

[curlymarcia]

The stylist was not professional. I'm glad you sued. Scalp burning could be very bad, cause hair lost and lower growth rate. People shouldn't leave bleach unattended. As a curly haired with low growth rate I feel your pain. Anyway, if your hair was too dark, she could refuse to bleach it or make a color test.

I once dyed my hair black. When I went to these great hairdresser to lighter my hair. The stylist make a test in a small strand. After bleaching and toner it, the strand was almost the same color. I decided it was not worth it. After six months without coloring (as advice for her), she made the color test again and I got the color that I was looking for with almost no damage. By the way, the test color it was without cost (but I am a regular at this salon).

[StephanieB]

No, I am not saying that. The stylist should be dealt with by the salon and the licensing board. The salon should provide extensions or whatever free if charge. I am saying that hair length, when there is no permanent or monetary damage to the person who lost the length, is not with $5,000 in my opinion.

I have to agree with Trudie on this.

I once was seriously damaged - as in hospitalized for weeks - by a hair stylist/colorist, and I only sued her because her salon would not agree to pay my medical bills!

"K" was the stylist/colorist and one of two co-owners of the salon. My very dark brunette hair was triple-processed for color plus permed. My dark hair was stripped of color, bleached platinum, and then dyed with golden low lights. My roots were done every three weeks. In addition to all of this damage, they were perming my hair every three months. I was young and knew next to nothing about hair, but K was supposed to be a licensed professional! Not once did she tell me that I might be damaging my hair; No waiver ever was shown to me. K kept assuring me that she had a handle on my hair, and nothing would - or could - go wrong. Each week, K tease my hair into "Jersey Girl Big Hair", additionally.

One day, K put the stripper (or was it the bleach?) on my roots, set me in the back of the salon at the color sink... and her ex-husband came into the salon. An argument ensued. Once I felt burning on my scalp, I went up front to tell K; she told methat it wasn't time yet and to please go back and sit down while she had her private fight with her ex-husband. Two or three times more, i got up, came up front, and complained - crying - of the burning pain. I was literally in tears, screaming with the pain, crying. It upset everyone else in the salon at the time.

K's ex-husband finally pushed K towards the back sink and told her to wash me out. I was screaming in pain. The hot water burned. K said it was only lukewarm. I knew or felt something very wrong on my head.

Then I saw K's face and knew it was really bad. She gasped.

K's ex-husband ran for the front telephone and dialed 911 and hollered for an ambulance.

I tried to get up and go look in the back mirror. K's ex-husband literally tackled me and brought me to the floor, and sat on me to keep me away form the mirror.

It was too late: Everyone else in the salon had seen what I didn't yet know: I had bad chemical burns allover my scalp and no hair left on my head.

The pain finally hit fully. I don't recalll much other than an ambulance came and called for a medivac helicopter to cart me off to our regional trauma hospital, to the burn unit. I got a free (unremembered) helicopter ride.

The day afterwards, with me still in the intensive care burn unit, hubby went to the salon to ask K for her insurnace company info. K refused to give this and insisted that she was not responsible.

Long story shorter, I was forced to resort to a lawsuit. I was in the hospital for weeks and weeks. It took my sclp over a year to heal fully, I still have scars, ten years later, and I was just lucky that my hair grew back. It's thinner over some scarred areas. It took my hair almost two years before there was any hair growth again; we'd almost given up hope of hair regrowth.

My lawsuit (1) forced her insurance company to pay my disastrously high medical bills, (2) forced her out of business, and (3) paid me for silk scarves and human hair wigs. I deserved evry penny of the money I received... and I received every cent of it, even though K lost her house to pay for it.

That ^ was a reason to sue hairstylist/colorist. Loss of hair length would not have been a good reason.

I had - not counting bills paid, wigs and silk scarves bought - received more money in just punitive damages than the o.p. of this thread got. I am not allowed to discuss the full amount of my suit; that was part of the deal - a gag order.

But I have earned the right to state that I believe this o.p. should not have gotten $15K for 'just' hair loss.

Not counting my medical and cosmetic damages, and only counting my punitive damages, she got darn near what I got... and she had nothing so horrendous happen to her as I had happen to me, believe me!
NOTHING hurts like severe burns! NOTHING!!

[AlabasterAlice]

I apologize for the state of your hair, but really, I don't see why you went this far. :/ Like others have said, your hair will grow back, but will that person ever be able to work again in their field?

Honestly, if it were me, and my scalp burned, I would have gotten my bum out of the chair and gone to get someone! Why in the world would you just sit there while your head burned?

[slz]

That ^ was a reason to sue hairstylist/colorist. Loss of hair length would not have been a good reason.
(Appart from the mytho-fu contest ...) Actually I don't think anybody is entitled to decide what is a good or a bad reason for someone else. You bet I'd sue the hell out of anybody who made me lose length ! But in any case, that's not even the point : the point is malpractise = someone who doesn't do their job properly, which includes failure to inform of the potential drawbacks. "Everybody knows this" is not a valid answer.

[Rosetta]

StephanieB, what an absolutely horrendous story & experience you have had!! Truly scary...

Oktobergoud, you're probably not going to read this, but in any case, I must say I agree with you...

[ktani]

... Actually I don't think anybody is entitled to decide what is a good or a bad reason for someone else. You bet I'd sue the hell out of anybody who made me lose length ! But in any case, that's not even the point : the point is malpractise = someone who doesn't do their job properly, which includes failure to inform of the potential drawbacks. "Everybody knows this" is not a valid answer.

I agree completely!

StephanieB I am so sorry that you went through all of that and thankfully your hair did grow back.

Like the OP said though, she started the action to prevent someone else frome having that happen to them or worse.

If someone had put a claim in to the salon you had your disaster with and I doubt that they had not had some problems prior to your incident, it may have never have happened.

[MandyBeth]

There is a MAJOR difference from a true chemical burn that people have mentioned and freaking out over newly damaged hair and choosing to chop it off vs trying to pamper it and growing out undamaged hair. The OP is NOT the first reality AT ALL.

[ktani]

I am not saying I would put in a claim for length only but length only is not the real issue here.

The real issue is negligence that could have had a much more severe outcome.

Losing the length that happened did not happen because of a bad haircut.

It happened because the stylist was negligent in her duties in the course of performing a chemical process.

Had the OP been given patch and strand tests as well as a waiver, so that she was fully informed and understood the possible consequences, she could have avoided what happened to her.

[ktani]

There is a MAJOR difference from a true chemical burn that people have mentioned and freaking out over newly damaged hair and choosing to chop it off vs trying to pamper it and growing out undamaged hair. The OP is NOT the first reality AT ALL.

No one here is the first reality. The reality is that there was a settlement and settlements although they can happen for various reasons are not taken lightly in most cases.

[Charybdis]

And black, jet black, dyed with a boxdye for years. And I ruined it with bleach, myself! Heck, I wanted to go to a hairstylist but none of them wanted to do it, because it would be too damaging. So I thought, what the heck, why not try it myself? Well, I got my platinum hair, and I got a pixie. And hair falling out like crazy! [emphasis added]

This is key. A competent stylist would thoroughly explain the potential for damage, and either refuse to perform the process or get a signed waiver from the client. The OP's stylist did none of these things, even though there was a waiver that she was supposed to present to the OP under salon policy. (And it would be the job of the salon owner there to ensure that the stylists follow salon policy on these matters.)

As someone who works in an area where there can be serious legal consequences for acting incompetently or dishonestly (above and beyond just being fired), or for permitting people who work for you to behave incompetently or dishonestly (even if you as the supervisor are simply negligent rather than actively condoning the behavior), I can't feel sympathy for the stylist's loss of her job in this situation.

To add a little clarity around the issue of legal costs -- small claims court does not require the same rules of evidence and legal procedure that a trial court does. It's pretty straightforward for a defendant to represent him- or herself in a small claims case. If there was an insurance company involved, one of their in-house attorneys probably provided legal counsel if there was a liability section of the insurance policy that the insurer will have to pay out under. The fact that the stylist or salon owner (it's not clear to me which one was the defendant here, or if both were) decided to settle indicates to me that the OP's case was pretty strong.

Myself, I'm not interested in speculating on the amount of distress the OP experienced or what she should or should not have been expected to know as "common knowledge." What does seem clear is that the stylist did an unprofessional job, but one that did not cause permanent and irreparable harm to the OP's health. This is exactly the kind of case that small claims court is designed for.

[MandyBeth]

StephanieB has the first reality I mentioned. OP has WAY too many gaps in the story. The amount is too high and too fast, if it's a settlement, the gag order is going to be in place to not say the payout, and there is NO personal responsibility for OP.

[Charybdis]

I am not an attorney, but I don't think small claims courts have the power to impose gag orders as part of a settlement. I believe that power is restricted to higher courts.

[MandyBeth]

They can. Any settlement can have one, otherwise, why settle because if the name and damages can be released, it's worth a shot at a trial where you may get a lower payout or have to pay nothing.

[ktani]

I fail to see why a very severe result of a chemical process is the only one that should be challenged.

Claims like the OP's either have validity or not. In this case, as it has been presented, it did.

[MandyBeth]

There isn't abnormal damage in this case. It sounded like normal damage due to over processing. Just on a person with limited self control, who paniced and whacked her hair off.

[Charybdis]

They can. Any settlement can have one, otherwise, why settle because if the name and damages can be released, it's worth a shot at a trial where you may get a lower payout or have to pay nothing.

You may also end up with a *higher* payout, and with additional legal costs if you don't represent yourself. Unless a judge issues a gag order (which I'm pretty sure doesn't happen in small claims), the only way to keep the settlement secret is to have a sealed settlement, and I don't think there's a way to enter a sealed settlement in small claims unless it's as a mediated agreement. Nolo has some good info on how small claims court works. (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter0-1.html)

[rusika1]

There are two sides to every story. Anyone ever see Rashomon? We know the OP's side, but we don't know the stylist's side. And the fact that a settlement was reached doesn't necessarily mean the stylist was negligent. Sometimes companies pay people to go away because it's less expensive than a court case. And there are certainly plenty of people out there who take advantage of that fact. An agreement to pay 'damages' is NOT an automatic admission of guilt.

NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE WITH OP AND I AM NOT SAYING HER COMPLAINT AGAINST THE HAIRDRESSER ARE NOT VALID!!! What I am saying is that we don't KNOW what happened, or how equally OP and hairdresser share the blame BECAUSE WE WERE NOT THERE.

That said (and these apply to everyone, not just OP):
1. Anyone over the age of 12 in the early 21st century who thinks chemical hair treatments are 100% safe is naive.
2. There's a reason you should ALWAYS do a patch test.
3. Don't believe everything you're told. The phrase "caveat emptor" springs to mind. (Also "question authority")
4. Sometimes you just have to live with the consequences of your actions.

And this next bit is assuming there has not been any actual, permanent damage/scarring to the scalp or hair follicles:
It IS just hair. Yes, we all value it, BUT IT GROWS BACK. To those of you who act as if the loss of hair is equivalent to loss of an arm or leg: GET SOME PERSPECTIVE. We have at least 4 active members who are currently/have recently undergone cancer treatments that have caused them to lose their hair. (And a few more members who are a few years out from cancer treatment). We also have at least one member with alopecia. And I don't think any of them have had their lives ruined by hair loss.

[ktani]

Whatever gaps there are or however long it took for the settlement is beside the point of the discussions here.

They all center around what the OP has presented. If we take what information there is a settlement was made because it was deemed appropriate for whatever reasons ultimately decided.

[MandyBeth]

Ok, but there is the side who thinks the OP is full of it, and a whiny brat. Anyone questioned why sue - OP was all over that. Anyone questioned the facts that can be proven - nada. Thus, I don't buy it.

[ktani]

Ok, but there is the side who thinks the OP is full of it, and a whiny brat. Anyone questioned why sue - OP was all over that. Anyone questioned the facts that can be proven - nada. Thus, I don't buy it.

That is a different issue altogether - challenging a member's credibility. Not going there.

[oktobergoud]

There are two sides to every story. Anyone ever see Rashomon? We know the OP's side, but we don't know the stylist's side. And the fact that a settlement was reached doesn't necessarily mean the stylist was negligent. Sometimes companies pay people to go away because it's less expensive than a court case. And there are certainly plenty of people out there who take advantage of that fact. An agreement to pay 'damages' is NOT an automatic admission of guilt.

NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE WITH OP AND I AM NOT SAYING HER COMPLAINT AGAINST THE HAIRDRESSER ARE NOT VALID!!! What I am saying is that we don't KNOW what happened, or how equally OP and hairdresser share the blame BECAUSE WE WERE NOT THERE.

That said (and these apply to everyone, not just OP):
1. Anyone over the age of 12 in the early 21st century who thinks chemical hair treatments are 100% safe is naive.
2. There's a reason you should ALWAYS do a patch test.
3. Don't believe everything you're told. The phrase "caveat emptor" springs to mind. (Also "question authority")
4. Sometimes you just have to live with the consequences of your actions.

And this next bit is assuming there has not been any actual, permanent damage/scarring to the scalp or hair follicles:
It IS just hair. Yes, we all value it, BUT IT GROWS BACK. To those of you who act as if the loss of hair is equivalent to loss of an arm or leg: GET SOME PERSPECTIVE. We have at least 4 active members who are currently/have recently undergone cancer treatments that have caused them to lose their hair. (And a few more members who are a few years out from cancer treatment). We also have at least one member with alopecia. And I don't think any of them have had their lives ruined by hair loss.

Well I said I didn't want to be involved in this anymore but I kept on reading, curious as I am!

I just wanted to say that I totally agree with this, rusika1!
That's it :)

[HairFaerie]

:drama:

A lot of interesting points and perspectives here. I wasn't there and don't know what happened exactly. An opinion just based on what the OP described...I think she should have just gotten the cost of her salon visit refunded. Most of what happened was her own doings and decisions.

I have a hard time believing that someone would dye their hair black, walk in to a salon and say "fix this" and expect to walk out with lovely, healthy, shiny picture perfect hair. They are hair stylists not miracle workers.

Lesson in all of this: If you don't want your hair damaged/ruined, leave it alone! The minute you start coloring/bleaching it...it WILL get damaged. The degree of damage depends on several things but it WILL get damaged. Black to blond is the worst case scenario. Don't do it. Or, if you choose to do it, take some personal responsibility for your choice, rather you do it at home or pay someone else to do it.

Just my :twocents:

[UltraBella]

You may also end up with a *higher* payout, and with additional legal costs if you don't represent yourself. Unless a judge issues a gag order (which I'm pretty sure doesn't happen in small claims), the only way to keep the settlement secret is to have a sealed settlement, and I don't think there's a way to enter a sealed settlement in small claims unless it's as a mediated agreement. Nolo has some good info on how small claims court works. (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter0-1.html)

The higher payout confuses me, especially since the original amount was $7,500 and she claims she settled for $5,000. Rhode Island cap on small claims is $2,500. How would someone end up with double the max allowed in small claims ?

[Charybdis]

I told myself I was going to butt out of this thread now, but just to answer UltraBella's question: my guess (working off the assumption that the OP is largely stating the facts) is that the salon was located in a neighboring state with a higher limit on small claims cases. Rhode Island is teeny tiny, and people in the Northeast often work somewhere other than where they live. Just a guess, though.

ETA: New Hampshire has a $7500 limit. (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html)

[UltraBella]

I told myself I was going to butt out of this thread now, but just to answer UltraBella's question: my guess (working off the assumption that the OP is largely stating the facts) is that the salon was located in a neighboring state with a higher limit on small claims cases. Rhode Island is teeny tiny, and people in the Northeast often work somewhere other than where they live. Just a guess, though.

ETA: New Hampshire has a $7500 limit. (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html)

I thought that too, RI is VERY small !

[MandyBeth]

I might consider that, yet OP has not choosen to give the state, despite posting AFTER that issue was mentioned. Plus, filing in a state that you do not live in takes longer usually. I ain't buying it.

[AlabasterAlice]

Ok, but there is the side who thinks the OP is full of it, and a whiny brat. Anyone questioned why sue - OP was all over that. Anyone questioned the facts that can be proven - nada. Thus, I don't buy it.
This was my thoughts, too. I smell some bull.

[AceOfCurls]

Ok, OP I think you shared this with us because you were excited about your win and instead of attacking you I'm going to say the one thing that you probably just wanted to hear from the LHC:


Congratulations on your win! :)

[ktani]

Small Claims caps can change. In Ontario it went from $10, 000.00 max to $25,000.00 earlier this year.

[MandyBeth]

I have the info on RI from March and do get any updates from other states, so I am pretty sure RI small claims is at 2,500. Based on what OP says, this was small claims, not district. I refuse now to believe anything new OP dreams up.

[ktani]

I did not do a Small Claims claim for the slip and fall I posted about. I contacted the company, then dealt with their insurance adjustor and settled. I settled for much less than the OP. Different kind of case and circumstances.

I had a discussion with the adjustor after I signed the form saying I would not pursue further action upon agreement of the amount. Both of us felt what was settled on was fair and reasonable.

ETA: Even though I got her to triple the amount first offered.

[StephanieB]

The higher payout confuses me, especially since the original amount was $7,500 and she claims she settled for $5,000. Rhode Island cap on small claims is $2,500. How would someone end up with double the max allowed in small claims ?
I think the confusion stems from incorrect use of legal terms.

What was the jurisdiction?

Was it won lawsuit (ie - a judgment) or an out-of-court settlement (ie - arbitration)?
And if it was arbitration, was it binding arbitration or not?

RI small claims court may have a $2500 cap... but does their special part 2 court have a cap? Is it $5000? Or higher, or lower?

It's entirely possible that both parties were forced into - or willfully entered into - binding arbitration... in which case, it is entirely possible that the arbiter adjudicated a settlement worth double the max of small claims court cases. BUT any arbiter worth his/her salt would have insisted upon a gag order as well.

[xcrunr2go]

The case was in NH. Max small claim amount is $7,500.

[xcrunr2go]

I was pro se. No attorney fees here.

[McFearless]

I think its rude to call the OP a liar. Don't believe it fine, but keep it to yourself. xcrunr2go I'm sorry your thread went to hell. Good luck on your hair journey, Happy growing :)

[InTheCity]

The higher payout confuses me, especially since the original amount was $7,500 and she claims she settled for $5,000. Rhode Island cap on small claims is $2,500. How would someone end up with double the max allowed in small claims ?

Isn't a settlement, by definition, out of court? Say you file a complaint with any court (including small claims) and the other party decides they'd rather just pay you to go away. Even if small claims has a max award of $2500, couldn't the two parties theoretically settle for whatever amount they agree to? Award would mean the court mandated amount you are to receive. Maybe that's where the max comes in to play.

I think the poster you quoted may be referring to the instance where settlement offers are higher than usual if they include a gag order, or non-disclosure agreement. (NDA).

I know I'm kind of avoiding the whole point of this thread because plenty of opinions have already expressed and mine isn't needed but I still feel compelled to chat about the legal parts because where I work there are a few settlement/NDA things happening right now. Huge scandal but I'm learning a lot.

[IndigoAsh]

I'm with the OP on this. The hairdresser should have taken much more care, and in the U.S hitting someone in the pocket is the best form of punishment. IMO. For good reason of course. I would be so devastated if I lost my hair.
As far as, it's just hair and it grows back. To some of us it's more than that. It DOES feel like you lost a limb. Now they're covered by insurance so it's not like THAT one hairstylist paid the OP 5k out of her pocket as she was leaving the courtroom. As an example, if I am doing a fire eating/breathing show and some person, who willingly was there to watch knowing the risks of attending, was burned I'm not going to say oh hey it's just skin it grows back... it's not like you lost an arm. It's still traumatizing to them and it is MY fault for not being as safe as I should have. That's why you have insurance.

[pepperminttea]

As far as, it's just hair and it grows back. To some of us it's more than that. It DOES feel like you lost a limb.

As far as I know, no-one has ever grown back a limb. ;)

[jaine]

Can we just let this thread die? :( I had a nightmare last night about StephanieB's horrible burn experience and now every time I see this thread pop up in the list I'm reminded of it. It's very stressful. Plus it seems like we've reached a useful conclusion (some people would have pressed charges and others wouldn't have). Not sure what else there is to talk about here.

[gretchen_hair]

It appears that some people are still finding the thread useful. I for one am enjoying the replies. If it causes you stress, try not to click on it. :shrug:



Can we just let this thread die? :( I had a nightmare last night about StephanieB's horrible burn experience and now every time I see this thread pop up in the list I'm reminded of it. It's very stressful. Plus it seems like we've reached a useful conclusion (some people would have pressed charges and others wouldn't have). Not sure what else there is to talk about here.

[archel]

StephanieB, your story is horrifying. YOU should have sued. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

As for OP - get a grip! I had black box dye (that I'd been using for 10 years) stripped out of my hair and it was a wreck, but I knew what I was getting into and I just conditioned the crap out of it and dealt with the change in texture until I got fed up and cut it chin length. But this was MY CHOICE.

Regardless of whether the settlement was justified or not, I hope that OP has learned about chemical processing and will never do anything like this to her hair again even if some stylist says it will be ok - it almost never is.

Ok, I have edited the rest of my post as I don't want to ruffle feathers.

[StephanieB]

Can we just let this thread die? :( I had a nightmare last night about StephanieB's horrible burn experience and now every time I see this thread pop up in the list I'm reminded of it. It's very stressful.

StephanieB, your story is horrifying.
Sorry to have upset you so much. Trust me - it was far worse than your nightmares think it was.

I've told the same story before, a number of times on LHC, so I didn't think it required a warning label. It's not like the story hasn't been posted on LHC before.

I'm sorry that my life so offends some people. It just sucks to be me.

Instead of letting an entire thread die just because some people can't deal with a simple story (true tale, but in the end to anybody other than me - just a story), perhaps ignoring my post would be best.

[gretchen_hair]

I know that I am not always the most diplomatic person on this forum, but the OP is being treated like shyte and has been called a liar by several people.

The story is not so far out there that it's can't be true. Some people don't agree that the OP received the money and some don't agree that she should have gotten a 5 grand settlement.

We don't know all that factors of the occurrence at the salon that led to this incident. Maybe the salon owner hired a sub par hair stylist and she shouldn't really be working on people heads? Maybe the stylist has a history of screw ups and was about to be fired? Maybe the salon owner tells the stylists not to show the waiver for fear of loss of income and has them cut corners? We just don't know.

Many people say that the OP should have gotten up no matter what and gone outside to get the stylist, while that is something I would have done....there have been times that I have had a sensation from a product and thought to myself...*should this feel like this*? She is a bit young and maybe just a little inexperienced and wasn't forceful enough. I bet she learned her lesson and will be a lot more aware now.

People make mistakes, but should they be allowed to continue in their profession if they make certain mistakes? What if a chef purchased some mushrooms from a local farmer. What if those mushrooms were poisonous and made some patrons very ill? What if the mushrooms made some of the patrons liver or kidneys fail requiring dialysis and/or transplants? Should his mistake of buying and preparing the mushrooms be forgiven or should he be fired because he almost killed someone and should have made sure those mushrooms were ok for human consumption?

Even if it is someones livelihood, maybe they need a new career or job. Some people get into hair styling because they want to do something that will make money, some get into it and realize they aren't cut out for it, some get out and work elsewhere, some stick it out even if they don't have the artistic skill to do so, just because they went that far and are determined to make money?

We will never know all of the mistakes that led up to this incident, some by the OP, some by the salon, some by the stylist. Apparently the insurance adjuster thought there was some evidence and proof of a screw up that warranted the settlement.

If I lost all my hair, even if some of the fault was my own, I would be devastated. If I asked a salon to perform something that I didn't know was risky and they didn't warn me and bad things happened, I would be upset. If they warned me and I went through anyways and bad things happened, I could only blame myself. This wasn't the case.

In the past 11 years I have spent well over $5000 in hair toys, shampoo, conditioner, poo bars, condish bars, oils, essential oils, leave ins, creams, butters, scissors, buffs, wraps, treatments, etc etc etc. That lousy $5000 would not compensate me for my efforts and devotion to my hair. But then again, my hair is as long as it is because I have been ever so careful and have stayed away from harsh treatments and have learned a lot about gentle hair care and benign neglect from LHC.

To call the OP a straight up liar is uncalled for, *Judge not lest ye be Judged* and *Do unto others as you have them do to you* are some sound words. Regardless of your upbringing, religion or lack of, spirituality or background, those words hold a lot of truth.

I cannot say that everything the OP said was true, I cannot say that some of it wasn't skewed from her perception, but I cannot come here and call her a liar without proof of such. Being called a liar is hurtful and unnecessary. What would the OP gain from us, a world of strangers, to come here with a tall tale of winning her case and the circumstances that surrounded it?

I have seen some tales on here that made me wonder, but they are usually pretty far fetched and easily identifiable. But calling someone a liar is just wrong and uncalled for. The OP has not shown herself to be a drama queen or a story teller, I think a little bit of the *benefit of the doubt* may be in order.

I am appalled at the way many posters have treated the OP. Being treated like shyte is completely unacceptable. I am ashamed.

[Ligeia_13]

StephanieB, she didn't say it was offending. If anything, she feels for you. Don't jump to defense so quickly.

Also, why are so many people suddenly accusing the OP of lying? What would be the point of starting a bogus thread? I don't agree with the claim, but that's her decision and there's no reason to call her a liar.

[archel]

I edited my post to be less offensive. I still think what I think, but I do not want to upset people...

[xoerincolleen]

Well said, gretchen_hair.

[McFearless]

Well said, gretchen_hair.
I agree. Thank you gretchen-hair. Its just what I was thinking.

[emelnd]

I know that I am not always the most diplomatic person on this forum, but the OP is being treated like shyte and has been called a liar by several people.

The story is not so far out there that it's can't be true. Some people don't agree that the OP received the money and some don't agree that she should have gotten a 5 grand settlement.

We don't know all that factors of the occurrence at the salon that led to this incident. Maybe the salon owner hired a sub par hair stylist and she shouldn't really be working on people heads? Maybe the stylist has a history of screw ups and was about to be fired? Maybe the salon owner tells the stylists not to show the waiver for fear of loss of income and has them cut corners? We just don't know.

Many people say that the OP should have gotten up no matter what and gone outside to get the stylist, while that is something I would have done....there have been times that I have had a sensation from a product and thought to myself...*should this feel like this*? She is a bit young and maybe just a little inexperienced and wasn't forceful enough. I bet she learned her lesson and will be a lot more aware now.

People make mistakes, but should they be allowed to continue in their profession if they make certain mistakes? What if a chef purchased some mushrooms from a local farmer. What if those mushrooms were poisonous and made some patrons very ill? What if the mushrooms made some of the patrons liver or kidneys fail requiring dialysis and/or transplants? Should his mistake of buying and preparing the mushrooms be forgiven or should he be fired because he almost killed someone and should have made sure those mushrooms were ok for human consumption?

Even if it is someones livelihood, maybe they need a new career or job. Some people get into hair styling because they want to do something that will make money, some get into it and realize they aren't cut out for it, some get out and work elsewhere, some stick it out even if they don't have the artistic skill to do so, just because they went that far and are determined to make money?

We will never know all of the mistakes that led up to this incident, some by the OP, some by the salon, some by the stylist. Apparently the insurance adjuster thought there was some evidence and proof of a screw up that warranted the settlement.

If I lost all my hair, even if some of the fault was my own, I would be devastated. If I asked a salon to perform something that I didn't know was risky and they didn't warn me and bad things happened, I would be upset. If they warned me and I went through anyways and bad things happened, I could only blame myself. This wasn't the case.

In the past 11 years I have spent well over $5000 in hair toys, shampoo, conditioner, poo bars, condish bars, oils, essential oils, leave ins, creams, butters, scissors, buffs, wraps, treatments, etc etc etc. That lousy $5000 would not compensate me for my efforts and devotion to my hair. But then again, my hair is as long as it is because I have been ever so careful and have stayed away from harsh treatments and have learned a lot about gentle hair care and benign neglect from LHC.

To call the OP a straight up liar is uncalled for, *Judge not lest ye be Judged* and *Do unto others as you have them do to you* are some sound words. Regardless of your upbringing, religion or lack of, spirituality or background, those words hold a lot of truth.

I cannot say that everything the OP said was true, I cannot say that some of it wasn't skewed from her perception, but I cannot come here and call her a liar without proof of such. Being called a liar is hurtful and unnecessary. What would the OP gain from us, a world of strangers, to come here with a tall tale of winning her case and the circumstances that surrounded it?

I have seen some tales on here that made me wonder, but they are usually pretty far fetched and easily identifiable. But calling someone a liar is just wrong and uncalled for. The OP has not shown herself to be a drama queen or a story teller, I think a little bit of the *benefit of the doubt* may be in order.

I am appalled at the way many posters have treated the OP. Being treated like shyte is completely unacceptable. I am ashamed.

This. Well said. I read this thread before, and I just didn't know what to say. You have expressed it very well...

Note: I think $5000 is pretty low, especially around where the OP lives. I mean, I don't need to state the obvious, but if someone were to actually lose a limb, I would think the settlement would have been closer to millions.

[Lianna]

... if someone were to actually lose a limb, I would think the settlement would have been closer to millions.

Not where I live. There's actually a list of body parts and the compensation for each. If I remember correctly, a pinky toe runs around 2k. The maximum for a finger is 12,5k.

ETA: Assuming this link (http://workers-compensation.lawyers.com/Lost-Limb-Award-Schedules.html) is for USA. From there:

" Arm is paid 312 weeks' compensation
Leg is paid 288 weeks' compensation
Hand is paid 244 weeks' compensation
Foot is paid 205 weeks' compensation
Thumb is paid 75 weeks' compensation
First finger is paid 46 weeks' compensation"

That's for work accidents I believe.

[emelnd]

I must admit, I am very surprised. If the workplace is found to be at fault and it is not just a freak accident, I really would have thought the compensation would be a lot more, especially in the States.

Of course, if you are getting a service from some place and you lose a limb, that is not the same thing as having a dangerous occupation, either. Those laser clinics and horrible burns people report comes to mind... Except, they have you sign waivers at those places.

Either way, I am surprised.

[Lianna]

Yeah, in those cases people would have to file criminal charges, then seek monetary compensation (at least where I live). But wouldn't be millions either. I was pretty shocked when I learned about this (such low compensations) too.

[Sunshineliz]

Not where I live. There's actually a list of body parts and the compensation for each. If I remember correctly, a pinky toe runs around 2k. The maximum for a finger is 12,5k.

ETA: Assuming this link (http://workers-compensation.lawyers.com/Lost-Limb-Award-Schedules.html) is for USA. From there:

" Arm is paid 312 weeks' compensation
Leg is paid 288 weeks' compensation
Hand is paid 244 weeks' compensation
Foot is paid 205 weeks' compensation
Thumb is paid 75 weeks' compensation
First finger is paid 46 weeks' compensation"

That's for work accidents I believe.

Don't really know for sure, but I would think that might be in the case of outright work-related accidents. I think it is possible to get much more for gross negligence or something similar, but that would have to be proven I suppose.

[Lianna]

Yes, that is for accidents, I said it before. But 10k worth of fingers won't be sundenly 10kk just because it wasn't a work accident. My point was to prove that a finger/limb isn't worth millions to the Law.

ETA: It doesn't mean you couldn't get more than those figures. Specially in USA.

[Cupofmilk]

I have not commented up until now as this appears to be a can of worms.

I am sorry for op's experience. If she should have been shown a waiver and been warned of the damages and wasn't - then there is a case here. However unlikely it seems that someone who has already used box dye on their hair would not realise how damaging it would be to have that lightened, it still stands that if she legally should have been shown the waiver and had it explained , and then this didn't happen, that there is a claim.
There is the secondary issue of the loss of the length of hair. Am I right in thinking that op cut it off herself? None of us know how damaged it was - whether it could have been salvedged with many treatments and frequent trimming to preserve length - we don't know. We all know it would be quite damaged due to the box dye followed by the bleach. We all have different standards and some of us may not have chopped the hair off if it were us in that position.
I'm not really sure how it would be legally determined that the hair was so damaged it needed to be cut off and hence the loss of hair occured. However the first point still stands - if the waiver and explanation of possible damage was missed there is a claim.
(Of course some people will never agree that a claim should be made in these circumstances. And people have there own standpoints on the blame and claim culture).

[Charybdis]

Not where I live. There's actually a list of body parts and the compensation for each. If I remember correctly, a pinky toe runs around 2k. The maximum for a finger is 12,5k.

ETA: Assuming this link (http://workers-compensation.lawyers.com/Lost-Limb-Award-Schedules.html) is for USA. From there:

" Arm is paid 312 weeks' compensation
Leg is paid 288 weeks' compensation
Hand is paid 244 weeks' compensation
Foot is paid 205 weeks' compensation
Thumb is paid 75 weeks' compensation
First finger is paid 46 weeks' compensation"

That's for work accidents I believe.

This is for workers' compensation only, which is a state-regulated insurance program that pays out compensation and medical expenses according to the program rules for covered work-related accidents, without regard to employer negligence. Nothing at all to do with award limits in the event of a lawsuit. Accidental death and dismemberment clauses in life insurance policies will also have limited payouts for loss of digits and limbs, which again have nothing to do with what the injured party might recover in a lawsuit if the injury was due to another party's negligence or malicious actions.

[Lianna]

This is for workers' compensation only, which is a state-regulated insurance program that pays out compensation and medical expenses according to the program rules for covered work-related accidents, without regard to employer negligence. Nothing at all to do with award limits in the event of a lawsuit. Accidental death and dismemberment clauses in life insurance policies will also have limited payouts for loss of digits and limbs, which again have nothing to do with what the injured party might recover in a lawsuit if the injury was due to another party's negligence or malicious actions.

OMG, I didn't say it was the same thing, it's in my original post that it's for work accidents. It was just to prove that a limb won't always be worth millions.

In my country, if such accidents happen that's pretty much all people are gonna get. I didn't say anything about insurance. If someone actually goes to court and merit is discussed, they'll look up on the list how much your body part is worth.

In civil litigation, what it actually costs to your life will be taken into account too (how much it will actually damage that particular person's life/profession). Even in this case (person to person damages) won't be worth millions.

I'm done talking about this, even more so because I'm not from USA.

[rusika1]

OMG, I didn't say it was the same thing, it's in my original post that it's for work accidents. It was just to prove that a limb won't always be worth millions.

In my country, if such accidents happen that's pretty much all people are gonna get. I didn't say anything about insurance. If someone actually goes to court and merit is discussed, they'll look up on the list how much your body part is worth.

In civil litigation, what it actually costs to your life will be taken into account too (how much it will actually damage that particular person's life/profession). Even in this case (person to person damages) won't be worth millions.

I'm done talking about this, even more so because I'm not from USA.

No, you're actually correct. Juries were awarding ridiculously high amounts--frequently based on pain and suffering which of course can be very hard to prove. The courts started lowering awards in an attempt to make them a little more reasonable. I believe ultra-high awards are more likely to be made in cases where a young person has received a catastrophic injury that is going to require lifetime care. And even in those cases awards have sometimes been lowered.

[Alun]

Congrats on your win.

As for some people saying it was partly your fault, this is probably true. In some jurisdictions this would reduce the damages by a percentage, and in others (including Maryland) an older rule is followed that would stop you getting anything atall. In theory. In practice, there's a strange tendency for courts in these 'contributory negligence' states to hold that there wasn't any (contributory negligence), to avoid the situation where nothing is awarded, even though you were also harmed by another person's negligence, although that can happen.

As for the theory that injuries that heal shouldn't be compensated, the law has never agreed with that. If the stylist had somehow broken your arm (!) it would still heal, and a lot quicker than your hair would grow back, but nobody would be surprised that you could get damages.

Maybe I'm too close to the law to see any PoV that can't be defended with legal arguments over points of law? I'm a patent agent, though, not an actual lawyer.

[MandyBeth]

I fail to see why people are mindless following OP. There is NO news I can find on this. At all. There is nada other than OP story which I find hard to buy. Also, for ALL the "follow 2 wk rule", HELLO, OP DID NOT EVER.

[xoerincolleen]

I fail to see why people are mindless following OP. There is NO news I can find on this. At all. There is nada other than OP story which I find hard to buy. Also, for ALL the "follow 2 wk rule", HELLO, OP DID NOT EVER.

Why does that matter? She was just sharing her story- quit biting her head off for not doing what you would have done in her situation.

[wtchmel]

[SIZE="2"]


As for this comment, you obviously weren't the one who had to cut over 25'' off your hair unwillingly & disheartedly. The 1st sentence is EXACTLY what happened to me!!! It was a bleach soak with 30vol. for almost an hour & then 2 different semi-permanent dyes to mask her mistake. Blow-fried to "perfection". I think this counts for more than enough to cause irreversible damage to MY hair!

I chose to file the small claim only after I was presented with the facts. She failed to have me sign their waiver (I only knew there was a waiver because the girl @ the front desk advised me she was supposed to have me sign it after I called back to complain) & trying EVERY hair repair remedy under the sun, hundreds of dollars later & humiliation of trying to hold on the the sad attempt of waist length locks then having to cut it to pixie length (aka little boy cut) I had a RIGHT to file this claim. I filed for as much as I could without having to hire an attorney. Originally $7,500. I settled on $5,000 because it's not about the money, it's about this NEVER happening again. I filed a formal complaint with the State Board of Cosmetology as well. The stylist has since been fired from that salon. Don't be so quick to judge until you put yourself in somebody else's shoes.


I'm sorry, and i'll probably be 'flamed' for saying this, but its just friggen hair! It grows back, yes they f-ed up, but more then likely their career and possibly portions of their life are ruined over hair, that will grow back!
I feel there is a problem with this country that sues sues sues over semi frivolous things(not that hair is frivolous,lol) This is why we have lame asss policies , etc. Have you ever read a warning label on a hair dryer or toaster? "do not use toaster while taking a bath" I mean come on, these types of warnings and crap are there because someone sued. A label on a to go coffee, "warning, coffee very hot"(we all know how that one came about.) It's ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[Jomo]

No, you're actually correct. Juries were awarding ridiculously high amounts--frequently based on pain and suffering which of course can be very hard to prove. The courts started lowering awards in an attempt to make them a little more reasonable. I believe ultra-high awards are more likely to be made in cases where a young person has received a catastrophic injury that is going to require lifetime care. And even in those cases awards have sometimes been lowered.

Continuing on slight tangent...

The sky-high tort suits in the USA are usually a result of punitive damages being awarded, which is a much much less common occurence outside of the USA. And is actually not THAT common in the USA unless you happen to be up against a really major business. I'm Australian but I had to research this a while back in my job as a law clerk. US courts can award a person some amount of 'punitive damages', which can be 10 times or more the actual damages for their injury, when they believe the amount actually calculated as owing will be negligible in the terms of the company's profit margin. If you sue, say, McDonalds, and win, you'll probably be given many times over what a similar case against a small company would have been, because the court wants to make sure that the corporate giant actually feels the sting of their wrongdoing.

A couple of personal injury cases I've been involved in, as an example:
A 14 year old girl was riding on the lap of an adult in a car which went off the road, rolled several times and hit a tree. Her best friend sitting next to her was killed. She barely survived with serious physical and cognitive deficits. She was awarded $2.3 million, a portion of which went towards past medical expenses/legal fees/etc. She received a cheque for around 1.7 million dollars.
A 5 months pregnant, 30 year old woman with a slipped lap band, writhing in agony, was sent from her local medical clinic with a diagnosis of lap band slippage - the hospital she arrived at neglected to treat or do anything except a couple of diagnostic tests for over 72 hours, during which time she remained in complete agony despite being on the maximum morphine dosage. Her stomach became necrotic and her 22 week gestation son was born prematurely due to the ongoing stress to the mother and died. She was also lucky to survive, with most of her stomach surgically removed and permanent quality of life issues as a result. After legal fees etc she received approximately $600,000.

Most people would look at that and go, how could they basically ruin that woman's life and KILL HER UNBORN SON and she doesn't get millions of dollars? But that's just how the system works. You get what is calculated and agreed upon, down to the dollar, your past, present anf future expenses are and will be to recover as best you can from the injury and distress and allow you to return as closely as possible to an average life. The lion's share of most personal injury awards is calculated loss of income, so maybe if you had been a plastic surgeon or a movie star before the event your lost income would indeed amount to millions. But for most people, they're just restoring exactly what you've lost, and not a penny more.

Enormous amounts (in the millions) for pain and suffering, specifically, are a myth. There is an agreed scale depending on the severity of your physical and psychological injuries, length of recovery period, etc etc, but the amount is generally in the tens of thousands even for horrific suffering as above. You may be awarded several hundred thousand for ongoing medical and psychological treatment, but that's a different classification.

I think claims settling for what seems an unrealistically high amount out of court in the modern day is largely because businesses themselves have no idea what a court is realistically likely to award. They hear the infamous McDonalds lawsuits and think that's par for the course, when really most of the money in those instances are awarded as punitive damages purely because of how wealthy the corporation involved is.

[CariadA]

I can see both sides of this issue. I, personally, would not have made the choice to pursue legal action over hair. To me it would not be traumatizing enough to justify. Others may feel that they suffered emotional damages because of it. The case does confuse me for several reasons, but that's not something I want to bring up.

This is not necessarily a reflection on my feelings on this particular case, but it is relevant to the discussion of US lawsuits. The Huffington Post did a piece on the most frivolous lawsuits awhile back. Most are hilarious while some are just sad (like the man suing over Audi damages). Not all of these cases occurred in the US, but most did.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/11/the-most-frivolous-lawsui_n_570512.html#s89448&title=Women_Sue_For

This thread could use some laughter. :)

[MsBubbles]

Most are hilarious while some are just sad (like the man suing over Audi damages). Not all of these cases occurred in the US, but most did.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/11/the-most-frivolous-lawsui_n_570512.html#s89448&title=Women_Sue_For

This thread could use some laughter. :)

Thank you for that! The woman on that list who sued over the weather forecast should've been forced to predict the weather for the following year and suffered the consequences every time she got it hopelessly wrong.

[gretchen_hair]

I haven't seen anyone *mindlessly follow* the OP. :confused:

Also, we don't know for a fact that the OP, DID NOT EVER follow a 2 week or any other week rule. Besides, whose rules are these anyways? Just because it is advisory to wait 2 weeks before making a decision regarding hair changes, it isn't written in stone and no one is going to get sent to bed without any supper or be forced to wear a Scarlet Letter if they don't comply to someone else's arbitrary set of rules.




I fail to see why people are mindless following OP. There is NO news I can find on this. At all. There is nada other than OP story which I find hard to buy. Also, for ALL the "follow 2 wk rule", HELLO, OP DID NOT EVER.

[In2wishin]

I fail to see why people are mindless following OP. There is NO news I can find on this. At all. There is nada other than OP story which I find hard to buy. Also, for ALL the "follow 2 wk rule", HELLO, OP DID NOT EVER.

I've kept out of this but this needs a response:

WHAT IS YOUR FRIGGIN PROBLEM????????

About the news thing: why would you expect a small claims case to be in the news? Every state is different but in WI they don't even appear in the public access circuit court database unless there has been a judgement. This was a settlement, not a judgement. Settlements don't automatically come with a gag order, it needs to be written in the agreement so the OP may not be under one.

The only issue here is that the stylist/salon failed to provide adequate warning of potential risks. Yes, the OP should have known BUT the burden is upon the service provider to make sure that the client is aware of those risks.

[Crysta]

I do kind of feel sorry for that stylist - her career is probably ruined, but she didn't do her job properly and it resulted in OP's major hair loss. We at TLHC know how much effort - love and compassion goes along with growing hair (unless you're practicing neglect) This however is not the only reason that I feel OP or anyone would be justified to sue.

Hair is worth a LOT of money. a good 25" of hair could be sold for a couple thousand pounds (which might be around 4 thousand dollars, i'm not entirely sure of the exchange atm) If you asked someone to paint your house - and they knocked your house down, you would sue them [I think it's an appropriate enough comparison for what was asked for and what happened]

I'm not condoning 'suing culture' but I don't believe that this story is any part of that - if someone sues a barrister because their coffee is too hot then yes cheese off. If someone however ruins several years worth of hard work and at the same time creates the need for several more years hard work.. it's different.

__________

I do agree with stephanieB but OP didn't get 15k she got 5k
Echoing this

NOTHING hurts worse than chemical burns - but after 5 years my finger nails are firmly back in place and the scarring isn't all that noticeable unless you know it's there. I understand why you're so angry about the subject [and if you're not I think you'd be justified to be and sorry for misunderstanding] StephB's story is the perfect example of when to sue - and real reasons behind financial compensation [covering medical bills etc]

__________

I am assuming that stylist is completely in the wrong though - what with lots of information being left out of OP's story and OP won, I have faith enough that OP isn't a con artist or anything, damages is damages of course it depends on the person how much they suffer from an experience like this which is just the loss of hair - and hair grows back.

______

I'm iffy on the suing of people for anything like this, always have been - but I think i'm sticking with my original way of thinking - hair is worth money - hair is money - someone else's fault money was gone...

[SilvraShadows]

....like I was about to go running around the salon with chemicals on my head!!! Do you think that would have been a smart thing to do? Ruin my clothes just to get the stylist who was SUPPOSED to be attending to her client?

Yes, this would have been the smart thing to do, by all means. I can't believe someone would choose clothes over hair and health. I also believe that we are accountable just as much as the stylist is for what happens to us whilst sitting in their chair.

[archel]

OK, I LOLed on the first page of the Huffington Post article:

"The judge proved the point further by asking whether a reasonable person could "believe that Jean-Paul Sartre stated 'man is condemned to be douchey because once thrown into the world he is responsible for every douchey thing that he does.'"

BWAHAHA! Ok thank you for lightening up this thread. :)

[mrs.bad85]

I'm sorry, and i'll probably be 'flamed' for saying this, but its just friggen hair! It grows back, yes they f-ed up, but more then likely their career and possibly portions of their life are ruined over hair, that will grow back!
I feel there is a problem with this country that sues sues sues over semi frivolous things(not that hair is frivolous,lol) This is why we have lame asss policies , etc. Have you ever read a warning label on a hair dryer or toaster? "do not use toaster while taking a bath" I mean come on, these types of warnings and crap are there because someone sued. A label on a to go coffee, "warning, coffee very hot"(we all know how that one came about.) It's ridiculous. :rolleyes:


Slightly off topic but I had a lawyer come into my class to talk about one of the mcdonalds cases. In the one that he represented the woman got 3rd DEGREE BURNS the coffee was 200 deg which McD's was doing on purpose so that people would drink less unlimited coffee (you waited so long for cup #1 to cool that there was no time for another)

As other posters have stated we place a lot of value in our hair in many ways. Time to grow, effort, care, self esteem, our vanity. We are judged on our looks whether we like it or not. She was paid to provide a service. My mom has had a bad dye experience where they had to do it over and over and over again in one sitting. When she got home she was in tears her scalp burned and felt ugly. I thought she looked fine but that wasn't the point. It inflicted a lot of emotional damage on her.

I have had deep conditioning treatments at super cheap places where the stylist was still within shouting distance. These were very strong chemicals being left unattended. Not everyone is a hair expert which is why we go to someone who is supposed to be. We hire "experts" for a reason.

[headtrip_honey]

Slightly off topic but I had a lawyer come into my class to talk about one of the mcdonalds cases. In the one that he represented the woman got 3rd DEGREE BURNS the coffee was 200 deg which McD's was doing on purpose so that people would drink less unlimited coffee (you waited so long for cup #1 to cool that there was no time for another)



Um, actually, the coffee was 180-190 degrees (still hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns), and the coffee was served that hot because people were getting it "on the go" and the idea was the coffee would still be hot when they arrived at their destination.

I have never heard the "unlimited" coffee theory. Besides, who sticks around at a McDonalds merely to guzzle their cheap swill?

Believe me, I actually have sympathy for the woman in the McDonalds coffee case. Not trying to rip it. Just straightening out facts.

[Kleis]

Believe me, I actually have sympathy for the woman in the McDonalds coffee case. Not trying to rip it. Just straightening out facts.

Yeah, third degree burns in the genital area and skin grafts? I would have sued as well, for coverage of medical bills, if nothing else.

[StephanieB]

I think claims settling for what seems an unrealistically high amount out of court in the modern day is largely because businesses themselves have no idea what a court is realistically likely to award. They hear the infamous McDonalds lawsuits and think that's par for the course, when really most of the money in those instances are awarded as punitive damages purely because of how wealthy the corporation involved is.
That's what lawyers are supposed to be for - to tell you what you can likely expect from a jury or arbiter.

Any business OR individual who settles out of court without legal advice is foolish. That is why attorneys have consultations - to give advice as to what one can expect if a case goes to Court.


If I had been involved in any salon accident - and I'm talking about an incident where I was not at fault and/or I did not use a box dye or any other chemical on my own head of hair - an incident where a professional screwed up and cost me the length of my hair... let's say breakage at within an inch of my scalp... after seeking advice from a competent attorney who specializes in such cases, I'd've settled for the cost of a good wig (perhaps human hair) and been done with it.

As it was, I would have settled for the cost of my medical bills and a good human hair wig, and perhaps a few silk scarves. I would never have sued, had the salon owned up to it's mistake and just paid my bills and for a wig. Even with my chemical burns!

Hair is replaceable. And in the event of the o.p. of this thread, it wasn't even her livelihood. No one is legally justified in compensation for no damages done. The 'damage' done to somebody who does not depend upon her hair for a living is minimal; hair grows back. Add to this equation that the o.p. herself cut off her own hair - it wasn't done by a professional, and was not provably necessary (provable in Court).

[headtrip_honey]

Yeah, third degree burns in the genital area and skin grafts? I would have sued as well, for coverage of medical bills, if nothing else.

Which is all she originally asked for! And McDonalds said, "Here's 800 bucks, go away."

//off topic, whoops!

[pepperminttea]

I fail to see why people are mindless following OP. There is NO news I can find on this. At all. There is nada other than OP story which I find hard to buy. Also, for ALL the "follow 2 wk rule", HELLO, OP DID NOT EVER.

There's no need to be so rude. Calling the OP a liar and insulting their intelligence is hardly going to do any good, but if all you're trying to do is make them feel awful, then you're doing a great job.

Small claims cases round here never make the news, even on slow days, especially not a settlement rather than a legal win.

[headtrip_honey]

There's no need to be so rude. Calling the OP a liar and insulting their intelligence is hardly going to do any good, but if all you're trying to do is make them feel awful, then you're doing a great job.

Small claims cases round here never make the news, even on slow days, especially not a settlement rather than a legal win.

While I personally don't agree with what the OP did, this. I work in the legal department of a large company, and have seen many settlement agreements. Almost all put in some sort of confidentiality clause. People settle to make things go away quickly, not to splash them all over the news.

[gretchen_hair]

In the OP's defense, I didn't take her answer as literal. I also don't think that she was thinking about her clothes whilst her scalp had a burning sensation.

While we are somewhat accountable for what goes on in the chair, many of us don't know about chemicals, that's why we go to the salon. (that's a general *we*) If I go to the Dentist and get anesthesia, I should be aware if I am feeling odd or sick, but maybe I won't mention it to the Dr because I think this is what it's supposed to feel like, one never knows how they will react and it doesn't take long to go from getting to be a bad situation to *being* a bad situation.

I know there have been situations where I have hesitated for whatever reason and the outcome would have been better if I had acted upon those gut feelings much quicker.

We can never know that we won't do the right or best thing at any given time, sometimes we make mistakes as well, putting trust in the professionals who are aiding us.



Yes, this would have been the smart thing to do, by all means. I can't believe someone would choose clothes over hair and health. I also believe that we are accountable just as much as the stylist is for what happens to us whilst sitting in their chair.

[Regan]

I don't really get it. You decided to dye blonde hair to black using a box dye and were somehow surprised when it ended up.... black? so you went to a salon to bleach it out and are upset that there was serious damage?

Sorry that you lost your hair but I think even with the smallest amount of common sense you could have predicted this outcome.

[gretchen_hair]

It matters not if the OP uses her hair as her livelihood. A mistake was made at t he hands of the stylist and the insurance adjuster settled.

How can I say that the OP didn't deserve the money for fried hair? If that happened to me, I probably would have been in jail for beating that stylist with her own bloody stumps.




snip



Hair is replaceable. And in the event of the o.p. of this thread, it wasn't even her livelihood. No one is legally justified in compensation for no damages done. The 'damage' done to somebody who does not depend upon her hair for a living is minimal; hair grows back. Add to this equation that the o.p. herself cut off her own hair - it wasn't done by a professional, and was not provably necessary (provable in Court).

[MandyBeth]

While I personally don't agree with what the OP did, this. I work in the legal department of a large company, and have seen many settlement agreements. Almost all put in some sort of confidentiality clause. People settle to make things go away quickly, not to splash them all over the news.
That's the issue - if there is a gag order/confidentiality clause, this entire thread is in MAJOR violation of any I've seen.

If no gag order, I have to think it's going to make SOME level of news.

[headtrip_honey]

That's the issue - if there is a gag order/confidentiality clause, this entire thread is in MAJOR violation of any I've seen.

If no gag order, I have to think it's going to make SOME level of news.

I highly doubt it.

"Girl gets bad dye job, sues stylist, shop pays out 5 grand to avoid trial. News at 11."

That's how most news outlets would see it. And they'd ignore it.

[ravenreed]

Only in a really small city or a very slow news day. I can only imagine this making the news in one town I lived in and there the population was about 1,000 and I don't know that the local hair cutting place did coloring. Any place else? No way.

ETA: I wouldn't have sued over this because there were no lasting medical issues. Yes the salon should have informed her of potential damage AND gotten a waiver precisely for this (her hair was destroyed and she sued) reason. However, that doesn't mean that the OP's story is false.


That's the issue - if there is a gag order/confidentiality clause, this entire thread is in MAJOR violation of any I've seen.

If no gag order, I have to think it's going to make SOME level of news.

[Alun]

In the Huffington Post:-

When Tomas Delgado was driving over the speed limit and hit and killed child on a bike, a loophole got him out of any trouble (the boy was riding at night without safety gear or reflectors). You'd think getting away with murder would be enough, but Delgado decided to sue the family of the boy for damages to his Audi. It's a good thing he later dropped the lawsuit, or we would have lost ALL faith in humanity.

The source they got it from:-

1. Man Sues Family of Boy He Ran Over
January 2008: Spanish businessman Tomas Delgado sued the family of the 17-year-old boy he'd hit and killed for the damage that the boy's body did to his Audi. Delgado was speeding at the time, but since the boy was cycling alone at night without reflectors or a helmet, the driver wasn't charged with anything other than being a complete jerk. Under public pressure, he later dropped his lawsuit.

The lawsuit was just in bad taste. The victim was apparently the one at fault, sometimes they are you know, but I think he'd already paid for it.

[ktani]

It is always a good idea to seek legal advice before considering any claim.

That is what consultations are for and they can be free.

I work in the legal field and had a double advantage when pursuing my claim in that I happened to researching similar case law around that same time. That was not the reason I started the claim though. Accountability is the reason and my suffering needlessly.

It was sometime after 4 weeks of pain that I fully healed and had the company been diligent the fall would not have happened at all.

In this case there was also a settlement only and the OP is the only one who has been "on trial" here in this thread it seems to me. I do not agree with that at all.

Whether anyone here agrees or not, a settlement was made, and not questioning the truth of the information, the salon was liable.

[In2wishin]

That's the issue - if there is a gag order/confidentiality clause, this entire thread is in MAJOR violation of any I've seen.

If no gag order, I have to think it's going to make SOME level of news.

Nope.

I filed a discrimination suit against a well known businessman in the area (ADA violation). We settled through arbitration and, even though I agreed to a gag order, their lawyer forgot to put it in the settlement papers I signed so I can say what I want. This did not make the news because settlements DO NOT go into the public record and I chose to not make it news. News media use public records, viewers/readers tips, press releases, and police/fire/etc. scanners and PR people to get their local news.

[Finoriel]

*mod hat on* :wink:
We just wanted to say thank you to everybody sending us reports about this thread :flowers: we do appreciate your help and it's great that you all let us know about your concerns. The team is in the process of reviewing this thread :).
Because of the large amount of different concerns which reached us, we have to at least temporarily (possibly permanently) put this thread on hold.
We're sorry for the inconvenience.