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MissHair
June 29th, 2008, 05:57 AM
My favorite long-haired model Ruslana Korshunova died tonight at the age of 20 in Manhattan, NYC. They suspect she committed suicide as she fell from a building.

I cant believe this... She was such a stunning girl... And with the prettiest long hair.. Im in shock.. We've had a few threads about this girl in the past.. This is really sad.. May she rest in peace..

Photo of this beautiful angel: http://supermodels.nl/ModelPics/ruslanakorshunova/19.jpg

Article:

A stunning Russian supermodel plunged to her death from the ninth floor of her lower Manhattan high-rise Saturday, police sources and neighbors said. Ruslana Korshunova, 20, a long-haired beauty who graced the cover of Russian Vogue, plummeted into the middle of busy Water St. in the Financial District around 2:30 p.m., according to sources and building residents. Witnesses to the apparent suicide had no idea that the shoeless woman dressed in blue jeans and a purple tank top was a famous model but noticed her beauty right away.

"All I saw was something moving out of the corner of my eye, and then boom. It sounded like a bass drum when she hit the ground," said Steve Metzger, 36. "She was a pretty girl." Investigators believe Korshunova jumped from her ninth-floor apartment adjacent to a skyscraper construction site, a law enforcement source said.

"I turned around just as she was about 3 feet off the ground and then, boom, she hit," said witness Ahmed Saad, 22, who was manning a nearby halal food cart.

Often photographed with her thigh-length locks cascading around her, Korshunova was born July 2, 1987, in Almaty, Kazakhstan. She was reportedly discovered in 2003 by Debbie Jones of Models 1, who spotted a picture of Korshunova in an in-flight magazine article about the girl's hometown. "I saw her by chance and she looked like something out of a fairytale!" Jones told British Vogue. "We had to find her and we searched high and low until we did! She's really incredible with feline features and timeless beauty."

She was represented by the agency IMG and has modeled for Nina Ricci, Marc Jacobs and Cynthia Rowley.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/06/29/america/NA-GEN-US-Model-Suicide.php

DecafJane
June 29th, 2008, 06:11 AM
That is so sad. :(

I feel awful for her family and friends.

Kuchen
June 29th, 2008, 06:11 AM
Strewth. What awful news.

toodramatik
June 29th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Stupid girl.

AutumnLeaves
June 29th, 2008, 06:21 AM
Oh my...This makes me sad on many levels. On the one hand, I find myself wondering why she felt that there were no alternatives and took this way out. Then I find myself wondering what could be so bad in the life of a model that did this. I find myself wondering if she committed suicide or if someone murdered her. She was truly a natural and stunning beauty. I also feel so sorry for her family and friends. I also can empathize with the feelings she must have had that let her feel this was the only way. I've never heard of her, but I know she is mourned.

Kuchen
June 29th, 2008, 06:25 AM
Oh my...This makes me sad on many levels. On the one hand, I find myself wondering why she felt that there were no alternatives and took this way out. Then I find myself wondering what could be so bad in the life of a model that did this. I find myself wondering if she committed suicide or if someone murdered her. She was truly a natural and stunning beauty. I also feel so sorry for her family and friends. I also can empathize with the feelings she must have had that let her feel this was the only way. I've never heard of her, but I know she is mourned.

Beauty and success aren't exactly relevant to state of mind. She was only 20, had been working in a pretty venal, lonely and corrupt business (http://jezebel.com/5019688/dear-models-of-the-world-are-we-all-too-busy-starving-ourselves-to-form-a-union-already)since she was 15.

rapunzhell13
June 29th, 2008, 06:41 AM
Wow! :eek: So tragic. :( RIP Ruslana.

Guenever
June 29th, 2008, 06:57 AM
Poor, poor girl :(
It's tragic how life apparently can push you to your limits - so that suicide seems like the only solution..
I had a friend once who chose the same solution.. I still can't wrap my mind around it.. it's terrible..

bunnii
June 29th, 2008, 07:22 AM
Stupid girl.

really? There is no need for these kind of comments!


This is a sad story and she was so beautiful, she would have had a good long career i'm sure :(

lora410
June 29th, 2008, 07:32 AM
How sad for someone so young to see this as the only way out :(

mellie
June 29th, 2008, 07:36 AM
That is very sad. I'm sure she will be missed.

Beatnik Guy
June 29th, 2008, 07:36 AM
That's horrible news. :(

brok3nwings
June 29th, 2008, 07:38 AM
lora410 I agree completly with you.. :( Its most of all, Sad. I cant really put myself into a situation like that because i think i´ve never been in that ultimate depressing feeling but anyway, i know that it happens unfortunatly

Darkhorse1
June 29th, 2008, 07:42 AM
That is SO TRAGIC!! Poor girl and her family. :(

rapunzhell13
June 29th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Stupid girl.

Insensitive much? :rolleyes:


really? There is no need for these kind of comments!

Agreed.

betsala
June 29th, 2008, 08:11 AM
that's terrible!

jamisonlcloud
June 29th, 2008, 08:11 AM
I just wonder why she did it. That is so said she felt she had to end her life.

Aelith
June 29th, 2008, 08:17 AM
A terribly permanent solution to what may have been temporary problems - very, very sad. RIP Ruslana. :(

JessTheMess
June 29th, 2008, 08:31 AM
A permanent solution to a temporary problem. That is so sad. She was beautiful and young and didn't even touch the tip of her potential. R.I.P. beautiful girl!! So tragic :(:pray:

xrosiex
June 29th, 2008, 08:34 AM
Thats so sad. My heart goes out to her family and friends.

Laululintu
June 29th, 2008, 08:46 AM
Poor girl :( RIP Ruslana!

SurprisingWoman
June 29th, 2008, 08:59 AM
I'm sorry but suicide is stupid, and selfish.

It is also something that is sad and tragic.

People react in different ways to suicide, depending on their life situations and experiences.

It is best not to judge how someone chooses to react to such a violent and heartbreaking act. You don't know where they are coming from. Perhaps if Ruslana Korshunova had felt people were a little more understanding of her feelings she may not have chosen the action she did.

Just a thought.

Gladtobemom
June 29th, 2008, 09:27 AM
So very sad. To end such a young life.

Such beautiful hair-incredible eyes, so green.

akurah
June 29th, 2008, 09:35 AM
I'm sorry but suicide is stupid, and selfish.

It is also something that is sad and tragic.

People react in different ways to suicide, depending on their life situations and experiences.

It is best not to judge how someone chooses to react to such a violent and heartbreaking act. You don't know where they are coming from. Perhaps if Ruslana Korshunova had felt people were a little more understanding of her feelings she may not have chosen the action she did.

Just a thought.

You're contradicting herself. Calling Ruslana "Stupid girl" and defending someone who calls her stupid defeats this statement: "Perhaps if Ruslana Korshunova had felt people were a little more understanding of her feelings she may not have chosen the action she did."

Suicide occurs when one's pain exceeds one's ability to cope. While suicide is selfish, and while suicide can be prevented, and while I do NOT advocate suicide, to go "Stupid girl!" or "Selfish @#%^" in reaction to a suicide? Likewise, SELFISH. We put to sleep terminally ill animals so that they don't have to live with the pain, and yet we expect humans to put up with it? It's a cruel double standard at best, and its those kinds of attitudes that really make me sick.

MissHair
June 29th, 2008, 09:44 AM
I dont think anyone, especially not Ruslana Korshunova jumped off her apartment balcony because of a selfish act, maybe she was so depressed, maybe she had an eating disorder, was under the influence of medication or drugs or had been raped or abused, what do we know? As much as I think suicide is the most horrible thing in the world, I dont think she intended to do this to be selfish and only thought of herself, maybe she has been under pressure her entire childhood and was a prison in her own body because of the model industries demands and she felt like there was no other way out. Depression is not about being selfish, its about being so depressed you cant eat, sleep or think rationally. We dont know why she did it, perhaps she had hallucinations, depression can do horrible things to people. As much as you think she did a selfish act, calling her stupid girl is really uncalled for. She had feelings, she was a person, maybe she was in so much emotional pain that she was overwhelmed by it and didnt know how to cope with it no longer.

She did something very unrational and I dont think she is to blame. If she had gotten the right help in time this may have not happened.

Robinlyn
June 29th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Such a sad story, may she rest in peace. Losing someone is hard enough, losing someone to suicide leaves a lot of emptiness and unanswered questions. My thoughts and prayers are with her family.

jojo
June 29th, 2008, 09:57 AM
Oh how terrible it must feel to be so sad that you want out of this world, makes me want to give those I love a huge hug. such a young girl, very sad.

ktani
June 29th, 2008, 10:06 AM
To me, death is tragic period.

It is even more so IMO, when someone dies young.

From what I have read - I did a little more reading on her death, the cause of death has not been officially determined.

"Investigators were still examining the scene late Saturday .... unclear if anyone else was in the apartment at the time of the fall or if a suicide note was found. .... city medical examiner is to determine the cause of death."
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nyjump0629,0,1107339.story

If it was suicide, I think that it is tragic that she was not able to get the help she needed.

I feel for her family and friends too.

I do not think suicide is a selfish act. I think it is a desperate, sad act, that has irreversible consequenses.

There are however, countries where assisted suicide for those with terminal illness, is legal.

I prefer not to pass judgement.

Assisted suicide
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/assistedsuicide/

Starr
June 29th, 2008, 10:51 AM
What a sad and tragic event. . .

The untimely loss of a life always is.

SurprisingWoman
June 29th, 2008, 11:05 AM
By defending the person that called Ruslana stupid I was not contradicting myself.

Suicide can be considered selfish. By only thinking of how suicide may save YOUR feelings and bring YOU peace and resolution you are choosing to give immeasurable pain and suffering to those that love you. That's selfish.

I have a girl friend whose mother committed suicide. The only way my girlfriend can keep herself from taking the same action is by reminding herself how she felt when her mother did it so she doesn't put her kids through the same thing. It scares me every day.

If my girlfriend thought, "oh, well I am so sad I can't cope and there are no other choices for me" then she would already be dead. The very fact that she KNOWS the results of the selfish act of suicide is what has kept her from doing the same thing.

She is very condemnatory of people that commit suicide because they are "stupid and selfish."

Just because you may not feel it is stupid and selfish doesn't make your feelings the only "correct or valid" way to feel about it.

We might as well bring up politics, religion and abortion. This has the same ability to spiral into a heated discourse where the only correct answer is going to be...

How you feel is okay and fine. I respect that.

How I feel is okay and fine. You respect that.

Don't label for me and I won't label for you.

Simple respect and allowing people to feel how they feel without telling them they are wrong can go a long way. If Ruslana had felt she was respected and validated, that she may not have felt so alone that she couldn't see any other way for her to find peace. I don't know. We don't know what happened, but telling someone else how to feel or grieve is never as helpful as respecting their right to do so.

minkstole
June 29th, 2008, 11:43 AM
Presuming suicide is the case here: I find it to be always sad that someone finds killing themselves the best option he or she has. Depression or another illness seems to be the most likely reason to kill one self . I really don´t think modelling as a trade has anything to do with it, but what do I know?

Kleis
June 29th, 2008, 11:51 AM
SurprisingWoman, the contradiction is here:


I'm sorry but suicide is stupid, and selfish.

It is also something that is sad and tragic.

People react in different ways to suicide, depending on their life situations and experiences.

It is best not to judge how someone chooses to react to such a violent and heartbreaking act. You don't know where they are coming from. Perhaps if Ruslana Korshunova had felt people were a little more understanding of her feelings she may not have chosen the action she did.

It IS best not to judge.

girlcat36
June 29th, 2008, 11:51 AM
This is so sad. What a beautiful girl.

jenna
June 29th, 2008, 11:52 AM
how awful. :(

akurah
June 29th, 2008, 11:56 AM
SurprisingWoman, the contradiction is here:



It IS best not to judge.

Thank you for clarifying better than I could. I read the response, and I was like, "She's still missing it..." and I couldn't think of a way to say what I was trying to say appropriately, and I didn't want to be accidentally rude or anything, so I wasn't going to reply at all.

Sian100
June 29th, 2008, 11:58 AM
Oh dear, not highly inappropriate comments on a thread about someone's death again.

Before this debate on suicide continues, has it even been confirmed that she committed suicide yet?

Kuchen
June 29th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Oh dear, not highly inappropriate comments on a thread about someone's death again.

Before this debate on suicide continues, has it even been confirmed that she committed suicide yet?

There was netting over her balcony which had been cut through, and no signs of a disturbance in the room. Not that anyone ever knows the truth with something like this. Might have been an accident.

funnybunny668
June 29th, 2008, 12:05 PM
How very sad. I feel for her, as well as for her family and friends, who will hurt regardless of whether it was suicide or not.
I didn't know who she was, so I looked up her photo. She seemed beautiful in a very natural way, which is uncommon in the modelling business.

Gladtobemom
June 29th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Just talked to a friend in the fire dept there. She's a coodinator dispatch person. She said there are way too many cops for suicide . . . and they had the fire dept. rope off a huge area for almost a day. Not the actions when they really believe it's suicide.

She says famous people suicide all the time--they don't lock up the elevators for that.

So hmmmm

Loreyanne_H
June 29th, 2008, 12:50 PM
I'm so so sad about it. She was too young and beautiful...she had almost everything. It's a real tragedy :(

Beatnik Guy
June 29th, 2008, 01:13 PM
Might have been an accident.
Yes. Either way though, it is tragic for her, and for those who knew her better than us.

domonic_uk
June 29th, 2008, 02:17 PM
A truly sad situation my landlord had to deal with suicide recently, nobody new for a week that he passed away the body had started to decompose. It is so sad that the these people can never seem to reach out in time and seek the help they need over there depression.

Chrissy
June 29th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Stupid girl.


Please don't judge someone until you've walked in there shoes. I feel very sad for her that she was that depressed to do this. Have some compassion please.

cuddledumplin
June 29th, 2008, 02:55 PM
That's so tragic. My heart goes out to her family and friends.

Tangles
June 29th, 2008, 03:29 PM
I don't know why people always act like the "rich" and "beautiful" are somehow crazy to feel depressed or lonely (assuming that was the cause of this girl's death). This girl was human just like everyone else, and the fact that people summed up her life like: "Pretty girl... what a shame" only underscores that her looks were seen to represent the value of her life. Whether you're a model or a politician, the true value of your life will never be gaugable by other people... they will try to eulogize but will never come up with anything adequate. That's what makes death sad, in my view--not the loss of beauty or talent, of which there will always be plenty, but of the individual.

MissHair
June 29th, 2008, 03:32 PM
I don't know why people always act like the "rich" and "beautiful" are somehow crazy to feel depressed or lonely (assuming that was the cause of this girl's death). This girl was human just like everyone else, and the fact that people summed up her life like: "Pretty girl... what a shame" only underscores that her looks were seen to represent the value of her life. Whether you're a model or a politician, the true value of your life will never be gaugable by other people... they will try to eulogize but will never come up with anything adequate. That's what makes death sad, in my view--not the loss of beauty or talent, of which there will always be plenty, but of the individual.

Wow, I couldnt have said it better.... You said it so well. Very touching and absolutely spot on true.......

MissHair
June 29th, 2008, 03:34 PM
A truly sad situation my landlord had to deal with suicide recently, nobody new for a week that he passed away the body had started to decompose. It is so sad that the these people can never seem to reach out in time and seek the help they need over there depression.

What is bloody sad is that this individuals body had to start decomposing before someone found him. If he had family, friends or relatives or someone who cared enough to make a phone call and get worried when he wasnt answering they might have cared enough to start looking for him when he went ''missing''. Thats what I found sad.

Isilme
June 29th, 2008, 04:20 PM
I don't know why people always act like the "rich" and "beautiful" are somehow crazy to feel depressed or lonely (assuming that was the cause of this girl's death). This girl was human just like everyone else, and the fact that people summed up her life like: "Pretty girl... what a shame" only underscores that her looks were seen to represent the value of her life. Whether you're a model or a politician, the true value of your life will never be gaugable by other people... they will try to eulogize but will never come up with anything adequate. That's what makes death sad, in my view--not the loss of beauty or talent, of which there will always be plenty, but of the individual.



Well said. And thank you Kuchen for linking us to those articles about the fashion industry. It was a real eye opener.

Mrs_Zombie
June 29th, 2008, 05:55 PM
I just read this article on The New York Post website. I believe they called her the Rapunzel model.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06282008/news/regionalnews/model_suicide_117616.htm

Its so sad when someone so young feels that life isn't worth living and just ends it. She was very beautiful and very talented. My condolences go out to her family and friends. They will be in my thoughts.

LisaJaney
June 29th, 2008, 06:01 PM
I merged MrsZombie's post from FriendsBoard into this thread, as they were identical topics. I will PM Mrs Z and let her know...

Darkhorse1
June 29th, 2008, 06:06 PM
Ok, I realize that people view suicide differently, but having lost 2 family members to suicide, I can state this:
Depression to that severity can leave one feeling alone, and so low, that the only relief they can feel WAS to die. Have you ever experienced depression? Not just the blues, but depression to the point where getting up and doing something is an effort. And there seems to be NO end to that misery. My grandmother and cousin both could not find relief from this depression. My grandmother was in her sixties, my cousin was 20. My cousin killed herself last year, after several bouts of hospitalization due to depression. She was on medication, saw therapists, but those aren't magic cures.

Having experienced depression to the point of not caring about life, I can say that had I not found a blend of medication and self determination to get through it, I would NOT have wanted to live like that. Having seen that side of life, I can understand the sheer desperation.

someone who kills themselves can NOT be viewed as stupid. Stupid denotes lack of intelligence. Someone who wants to kill themselves in NOT THINKING CLEARLY. Their illness prevents them from being able to think rationally. Also, drugs and alcohol, which are comonly abused with those who suffer from depression, can hamper any rational thoughts, and also contribute to depression.

Please, take a minute before you write something that can be viewed as unfeeling. You may not understand the source of suicide, but seeing the other side, I can only say that my grandmother, who suffered in the era where there were no drugs to aid her, was so sad, and while I don't think death was the answer AT ALL, I know what sadness she experienced.

It is a misery I would NOT wish on my WORST enemy.

I am NOT saying that death/suicide was the option. But, saying someone is stupid to kill themselves? That's pretty redundant. Someone who is attempting/killed themselves is NOT thinking rationally.

Pegasus Marsters
June 29th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Stupid girl.

Thank you. I lost one of my very best friends to suicide earlier this year. Is he stupid too? Please note you're talking about a man who had a masters, worked in medicine and dedicated his life to curing cancer.

I ask you again... is he stupid? Think carefully before you answer.

Palomine
June 29th, 2008, 06:22 PM
I feel heartbroken for a girl I never met, who has died a few days before her 21st birthday.
I don't read fashion magazines but I remember someone showing me her first pictures in Elle a few years back because of her long hair. I think she was just 15 or 16.

I can't bear to think what intense sadness has caused her to do this in such a brutal and hopeless way. Not even a cry for help, just a complete obliteration of herself.
I know it's a cliche but for all the beauty, glamour, money, adulation and success, we never really know what is going on inside another person's mind and how broken they may be.
I'm always going to think of her as Rapunzel falling from the tower instead of meeting her prince and living happily ever after. Poor Ruslana, what a terrible tragedy.

Darkhorse1
June 29th, 2008, 06:24 PM
Please note, as of now, they aren't sure if this was an accident or not. I guess they'll have to wait for the coronor report.

Fee
June 29th, 2008, 06:28 PM
This is tragic, she was so young, beautiful, talented and had many beautiful years to come, who am I to judge what she has done? Having a past in depressions and still fighting against them, I can only say it's a road full of thorns and you can't get past them, they always hurt you, a time comes when you can't take the pain of those thorns and you put an end to it. Suicide is, of course, the worst solution, but no one can understand the desperation she felt at that moment. I hope she is in a better place right now, where she feels much better than she did here, RIP.

MissHair
June 29th, 2008, 06:41 PM
Ok, I realize that people view suicide differently, but having lost 2 family members to suicide, I can state this:
Depression to that severity can leave one feeling alone, and so low, that the only relief they can feel WAS to die.

She was on medication, saw therapists, but those aren't magic cures.

Someone who kills themselves can NOT be viewed as stupid. Stupid denotes lack of intelligence. Someone who wants to kill themselves in NOT THINKING CLEARLY. Their illness prevents them from being able to think rationally.

Please, take a minute before you write something that can be viewed as unfeeling. You may not understand the source of suicide, but seeing the other side, I can only say that my grandmother, who suffered in the era where there were no drugs to aid her, was so sad, and while I don't think death was the answer AT ALL, I know what sadness she experienced.

I am NOT saying that death/suicide was the option. But, saying someone is stupid to kill themselves? That's pretty redundant. Someone who is attempting/killed themselves is NOT thinking rationally.

Thank you. This is what Ive been trying to say aswell. Depression and suicidal thoughts and actions is not rational thinking and the victim is never to blame for mental illness. It is afterall an illness, not stupidity.

Its been said on the internet that Ruslana also suffered from Bipolar disorder, something she may have not been able to control with or without medication. She is not a stupid girl if she had this illness.

anna1850
June 29th, 2008, 06:56 PM
I think jumping from a building is selfish and stupid. You can land on someone and kill them too. I'm not joking here, it does happen.

I also think jumping in front of trains is terrible. Think of the driver.

Suicide as a whole is debatable, tragic but also terrible for the family involved. But if anyone is to kill themselves then jumping off a building is a really stupid way to do it.

Although she might not have killed herself anyway so it's maybe unfair to make judgements until the police have properly investigated.

Just my 2 cents.

DotDotDot
June 29th, 2008, 07:02 PM
That's tragic. I wonder if she ever saw a professional about her problems.

To those saying that suicide is stupid and selfish: I am not going to disagree with you about most cases. However, I would just like to point out that we don't know what prompted her to commit suicide and we therefore shouldn't judge her. For all we know, she suffered severe clinical depression.

Again, not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just something to keep in mind. :twocents:

SurprisingWoman
June 29th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Okay, I do get it and y'all are the ones that do not understand my point.

Denise's mom killed herself almost 9 years ago. She owned a house in Maine that she was staying at. She called Denise the night before and sounded fine. The next morning she put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger with her toe.

Two days after the funeral Denise got a letter saying "You are a good mom, you will be fine, I know you will miss me but I am tired."

Denise has been on anti-depressant med's for years and years. I have talked her through the dark hours more times than I can remember. I have driven over an hour to her house while talking on my cell the whole time to hold her so she wouldn't leave me.

The only thing that has kept her tied to this plane is her kids. When her mom killed herself Denise felt guilty. She wondered what she could have done, what signs did she miss, what could she have said, what could she have done...

She has found a coping mechanism. She considers what her mother did stupid, selfish and cowardly. When she is sad and depressed and crying there are times I am sooooo glad I can label her mother's action in her terms that will sink through the blackness and penetrate her feelings.

Denise feels her mother's actions were stupid, cowardly, and selfish. I am not going to tell her otherwise. Do you want to?

If she were posting on a board and this subject came up I can see her responding (somewhat defensively) by saying, "stupid girl." If people started calling her unfeeling and telling her what a POS she was she would be crushed.

My aunt committed suicide. It runs in the family. We are well aware of depression and the miracles of drugs.

It's fine if you don't think suicide is selfish, cowardly and stupid. But don't tell someone else they can't. You don't have that right, you don't know their story.

If you don't like their label, ignore it, send them a blessing, hope good things for their poor self, whatever makes you feel better but to discount someone's label is discounting that person. You don't know.

Pegasus Marsters
June 29th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Denise feels her mother's actions were stupid, cowardly, and selfish. I am not going to tell her otherwise. Do you want to?

If she were posting on a board and this subject came up I can see her responding (somewhat defensively) by saying, "stupid girl." If people started calling her unfeeling and telling her what a POS she was she would be crushed.

My aunt committed suicide. It runs in the family. We are well aware of depression and the miracles of drugs.

It's fine if you don't think suicide is selfish, cowardly and stupid. But don't tell someone else they can't. You don't have that right, you don't know their story.

If you don't like their label, ignore it, send them a blessing, hope good things for their poor self, whatever makes you feel better but to discount someone's label is discounting that person. You don't know.
If Denise wishes to believe her mother is stupid, selfish and cowardly so be it. But no one should pass such judgements on people they do not know. Especially those who are mentally ill.

I lost a very very close friend to suicide in february. He was not a stupid man. He was one of the most intelligent people I have ever had the fortune to meet. He simply could not cope and given what he had gone through in his life I do not blame him. If anyone DARE call him cowardly, stupid or selfish to my face I would not hesitate to physically attack them. M was brave, intelligent and one of the most selfless men I have ever known. He put everyone before himself. Ultimately I believe that was part of his downfall.

Seriously... before you go labelling all who commit suicide as "stupid, selfish and cowardly" you need to stop and think about OTHER people who have been affected by suicide. For anyone to suggest that those words should be used to describe M doesn't just make me angry, it hurts me very very deeply.

Think it through.

Kleis
June 29th, 2008, 07:30 PM
SW: Maybe you should simply edit your post and remove the part about not judging. No offense intended, but it just doesn't add up. :shrug:

And no, I'm not saying you can believe or say whatever you like. I do rather wish people could have a thread expressing their regret over a woman's death without the criticism drawn in, but that's me.

SpiralingWaves
June 29th, 2008, 07:34 PM
This is so sad, so horrible ... :( .... the tragedy here is that a young girl who had her whole life ahead of her died. Her family must be devastated.

And in regards to suicide being stupid and selfish ... none of us can judge someone who is hurting that badly, who is in such despair .... :no:

Pegasus Marsters
June 29th, 2008, 07:35 PM
You know, you can believe whatever the hell you like. But words such as "stupid" "selfish" and "cowardly" are insulting and inflamatory. If you could find a POLITE way of putting things then perhaps people would not be so angered.

To quote Thumper: If you cant say anything nice then don't say anything atall.

Beatnik Guy
June 29th, 2008, 07:37 PM
I do rather wish people could have a thread expressing their regret over a woman's death without the criticism drawn in, but that's me.
Yes. Can we please try to keep this thread to regrets rather than judgements?

SpiralingWaves
June 29th, 2008, 07:40 PM
It's fine if you don't think suicide is selfish, cowardly and stupid. But don't tell someone else they can't. You don't have that right, you don't know their story.

Anyone can have that opinion (that suicide is selfish, cowardly and stupid), and even feel that it is their 'right' to feel that way, but that doesn't make them right.

And that is all I am going to say about this subject.

DotDotDot
June 29th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Okay, I do get it and y'all are the ones that do not understand my point.

Denise's mom killed herself almost 9 years ago. She owned a house in Maine that she was staying at. She called Denise the night before and sounded fine. The next morning she put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger with her toe.

Two days after the funeral Denise got a letter saying "You are a good mom, you will be fine, I know you will miss me but I am tired."

Denise has been on anti-depressant med's for years and years. I have talked her through the dark hours more times than I can remember. I have driven over an hour to her house while talking on my cell the whole time to hold her so she wouldn't leave me.

The only thing that has kept her tied to this plane is her kids. When her mom killed herself Denise felt guilty. She wondered what she could have done, what signs did she miss, what could she have said, what could she have done...

She has found a coping mechanism. She considers what her mother did stupid, selfish and cowardly. When she is sad and depressed and crying there are times I am sooooo glad I can label her mother's action in her terms that will sink through the blackness and penetrate her feelings.

Denise feels her mother's actions were stupid, cowardly, and selfish. I am not going to tell her otherwise. Do you want to?

If she were posting on a board and this subject came up I can see her responding (somewhat defensively) by saying, "stupid girl." If people started calling her unfeeling and telling her what a POS she was she would be crushed.

My aunt committed suicide. It runs in the family. We are well aware of depression and the miracles of drugs.

It's fine if you don't think suicide is selfish, cowardly and stupid. But don't tell someone else they can't. You don't have that right, you don't know their story.

If you don't like their label, ignore it, send them a blessing, hope good things for their poor self, whatever makes you feel better but to discount someone's label is discounting that person. You don't know.

Sorry, I think there's been a slight misunderstanding. Again, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just saying that there are some things that should be taken into consideration before you judge people. I do understand what you're saying! I'm not saying that suicide is not hurtful to the friends and family of the deceased. I realize that they will, most understandably, be upset. In fact, I think there's something wrong if they're not upset! I just wish to point out that there are things behind this that we know nothing about. We don't know enough about the situation to make assumptions about the person involved.

Please understand that no one is saying that you can't think these things. Please also try to bear in mind that we are entitled to think what we want as well.


<snip> you don't know their story. <snip>

From what I understand, you don't know this woman's story either, and that's all I wanted to point out.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! :flowers:

Alley Cat
June 29th, 2008, 08:06 PM
Very sad . :(

Poolsoflaughter
June 29th, 2008, 08:07 PM
Man, that is too sad; 20 is just so young.

DecafJane
June 29th, 2008, 08:07 PM
There are more victims in suicide than just person who dies, which is my reason for not reacting to others whose responses seem out of proportion or different to mine. I don't know what any of you have been through unless I know you really, really, really well, and I don't.

I think that everybody here deserves a big warm hug or at least a pat on the shoulder. Life is hard, and there are many points of view to consider. I don't think that on-line forums are good places to thrash any of this out, as it is so easy to create misunderstandings. There is so much hurt and pain that we can't see just by looking at a sentence typed by someone on the other side of the world. The only thing that we can react to is how that sentence makes us feel or what it makes us think, which may be completely different to the intent of the author of the offending lines.

Wishing you all the compassion and understanding in the world!

I hope the poor girl finds some peace in the next life, wherever that may be.

ktani
June 29th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I knew a grief therapist years ago.

She told me that many people get angry when someone they love dies.

It is a form of grief.

I had never heard of that before.

This was a general reaction, not connected to suicide.

I imagine in those cases it gets much worse.

IMO, suicide is not a rational, well thought out act.

It is a tragedy, born out of pain.

I hope that however this turns out, the family will have help coping.

Darkhorse1
June 29th, 2008, 09:02 PM
People kill themselves because they are in pain and tourment. The last thought in their minds is not those of others---they are too far beyond their own grief to consider other's feelings. If they could, they would not be considering suicide. Suicide is a last attempt to rid one's self of an internal pain noone can understand.

I have a friend who is Bipolar, and her pain has been very real. She's lucky to have a supportive family and found medication and therapy to help her. I highly doubt a model's life, added to a different country would help this poor young lady.

Stupid, selfish, cowardly. To me, those are adjectives associated with people who are thinking of an act that benefits the person. How does suicide benefit a person? They DIE. The only reason they do this is because they feel they have no other answers.

Walk a day in someone else's shoes before you pass judgement on them.

Flaxen
June 29th, 2008, 09:16 PM
This thread is closed.