Fine hair and protein

[happybear]

Hi,

I recently read (in an advertisement for a shampoo/co brand) that fine hair has 50% less protein than coarser hair. Is this true? If so, should all fine haired people be incorporating protein treatment? Are there any fine haired people out there who's hair hates protein?

[gilbert-sarah]

my hair is curly and fine and is sensitive to lots of protein.... even coconut oil can be a bit too much and i have to make sure to condition alot.

[celebriangel]

It's a balance between protein and moisture. If you over-protein, your hair will get crispy and brittle and you can fix it by adding more moisture. Also, if you over-moisturise, you can fix by doing a protein treatment.

By which logic, if your hair is not very moisturised, it may hate protein. I like for this reason to do protein + moisture treatments. Protein on its own gives me crispy hair.

[Ashenputtel]

I'm also wondering this. I bought a conditionner with a bit of proteins in that is not too moisturising. It is easy to over moisturize fine hair.

[Shelly]

I also do both protein and moisturizing treatments for my hair one right after the other and it turns out so soft and silky. With my hair, there's no such thing as over moisturizing. It needs all the moisture it can get.

[skyblue]

I've been wondering about this as well, what kind of protein treatments would you all recommend?? And would it help strengthen my hair? My hair breaks like crazy!

[happybear]

Yeah I was confused by the ad because my hair is super fine but generally doesn't do well with protein treatments. Whenever I have used coconut oil I end up with crunchy hair.

[StephanieB]

Coconut oil hasn't got any protein in it. What's coconut oil got to do with the protein question of this thread? *confused*

[StephanieB]

My hair is baby-fine and extremely thin, and it doesn't like much protein - nor too much moisture, for that matter.


ETA: My hair likes caramel treatments best... but only a few times per year.

[Athena's Owl]

I have fine hair but low-porosity hair, so i have to be quite sparing with protein treatments or else my hair goes crunchy. I am thinking that maybe I could try doing protein treatments on my ends, because that's where I really need it, and leave it off the hair that isn't as old.

But I have to find a gluten free protein treatment. This might not be easy.

[NouvelleNymphe2]

my hair is quite fine, and it really likes protein. it keeps my hair strong. i very rarely have splits because i add aloe vera (which i think has protein in it, sorry if i'm wrong) and henna.

[Anje]

Hi,

I recently read (in an advertisement for a shampoo/co brand) that fine hair has 50% less protein than coarser hair. Is this true? If so, should all fine haired people be incorporating protein treatment? Are there any fine haired people out there who's hair hates protein?
I imagine it has less protein per hair because the hairs are of lower mass than coarse hairs, and hairs are made mainly of protein. Simple as that.

Does all fine hair love protein? No. Absolutely not. Mine hates it. It loves moisture though and really can't seem to get enough.

[MissManda]

I have finely-textured, low porosity hair that absolutely loves moisture. It loves,heavy conditioners like GFTN (for both cleansing and moisture) for CO-washing. I actually haven't gotten around to trying any protein treatments yet, but my hair does seem to like the little bit of protein that is one of my CO cleansing conditioners, however.

I'm somewhat nervous about trying protein treatments because of my low porosity and because of the horror stories I've heard about protein overload.

[Sunshineliz]

Coconut oil hasn't got any protein in it. What's coconut oil got to do with the protein question of this thread? *confused*

It doesn't really except that coconut oil can prevent protein loss, so theoretically many fine-hairs would like it.


DD10 has fine hair and it is very long and she was thinking she needed to strengthen it so it could get longer (she's in a stall right now) and so we got her some shampoo and conditioner that is full of protein and says you'll get stronger hair. Perhaps it helped at first--not sure, I wasn't really paying attention--but now it is definitely not as she has a major protein overload. Her hair has been snapping and breaking with the slightest strain and feels crunchy. I clarified and gave her a super-moisturizing conditioner in her last few washes and it is already starting to feel better.

Like a previous poster said, it is a balance to maintain between protein and moisture. Sometimes you might need protein, but be very careful not to overdose it. I've also heard that some people do better with one kind of protein over another. YMMV.

[pinkbunny]

I have fine hair - the roots get oily, but once my length grew past waist my ends have given me fits sometimes feeling crunchy, dry, frizzy, or velcro/magnet/static sticky! I use Hask Placenta which has protein and my hair seems to like it. I also moisturize and oil just the ends. I do have to be careful not to overdo the protein or I get buildup.

[happybear]

Coconut oil hasn't got any protein in it. What's coconut oil got to do with the protein question of this thread? *confused*

I meant to write "coconut milk"

[happybear]

I imagine it has less protein per hair because the hairs are of lower mass than coarse hairs, and hairs are made mainly of protein. Simple as that.

This was also what I figured too. The ad made it sound like fine hair is lacking and therefore buy this fantastic product so you too can have the same amount of protein as regular hair

[Lissandria]

My hair is fine and loves protein in henna. Before I hennaed my hair it was extremely fragile and stretchy. I'm so glad I have found these boards.
I am one of those finehairs naturally low in protein and years of demi-permanent dyes have exacerbated this. I would love to try a henna and placenta treatment one day too.

[kidari]

I meant to write "coconut milk"

I think that coconut oil prevents protein loss and coconut milk has protein in it and is like a protein treatment. I'm not a fine hair, but I can get crunchy ends if I use coconut oil too much but I find that my hair like coconut milk soaks better. I use the light version, soak it until it's absorbed upside down and then squeeze what the ends absorbed into the rest of my hair and put a shower cap on it and leave it in for about 30 min to an hr before washing it out and conditioning. It feels like it strengthens, nourishes, and moisturizes. I've never tried anything like it so far. It's worth a try as a protein treatment.

[luvlaughlin]

I have fine hair and it seems to like protein. Once or twice a week I used to use Framesi Step 7 liquid protein, which you cannot leave in your hair longer than 60 seconds. They don't make it anymore. I currently use Pravana Keratin Fusion shamp which is sulfate free. I have a partial weave (bleached highlights and added lowlights) so that could be one of the reasons my hair likes the extra protein. It does help with keeping split ends away. I haven't trimmed since April and I cannot find one split end (even using a magnifying glass to find any)!

[ladylovecraft]

My hair is fine and can't get enough protein. I use aPhogee's 2-minute treatments and a similar protein treatment... and I use them almost every time I wash. I never get crunchy hair. I also use a lot of moisture on top of that.

My conclusion: fine hair is just needy, haha.

[Lianna]

About half my hair is fine and it doesn't like protein treatments. A leave-in with protein from time to time is okay (since I get over moisturized sometimes). It doesn't like coconut oil or henna (though a gloss with 1tps is fine seldomly). I pretty much follow a "low protein" regimen.

[CurlyMopTop]

I've been struggling with this issue myself. It seems that my hair becomes overmoisturized quite easily, but yet it needs enough moisture to keep the curls happy. I'm finding that my hair really, really, does not like shampoo, even sulfate free ones. I've tried several. I need conditioner to be able to detangle my hair. I wouldn't even attempt to detangle without it!

I did one ion reconstructor treatment a couple of weeks ago, which is heavy duty proteins meant for people with severly damaged hair. I did a moisturizing treatment immediately after, my hair loved it for the most part. I just noticed the the ends were a little dry. I'm wondering if I do one
of their Effective Hair Care treatments once a week or so, if my hair will stay more balanced.

Right now I feel like I'm yoyoing back and forth, which I know can't be good for my hair either. I'm beginning to feel a little frustrated too. I'm trying to be patient, because I know it's just a matter of experimenting to find the right balance, but I'm worried about what kind of damage my hair is going to have in the meantime. I'm already beginning to notice some splits, which I shouldn't have right now. :( I'm taking a wild guess that they're from overmoisturizing.

Just in case you guys are wondering, my hair is all virgin hair with virtually no heat styling. I practiced neglect for 3 years to grow from a pixie to apl with lots of trims. I blow dry in the winter, maybe 5 to 6 times a year if that. The worst thing I've done to it other than that pre LHC was rough towel drying and using one of those plastic brushes with the nubs to style once a day.

Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now. Now, waiting for Sally's to open today so I can go purchase a treatment. :)

[jojo]

My hair is fine and loves protein, normally I do a hard core aphogee every 2 months but of late ive been using a protein conditioner each time and my hair has never looked better plus it seems to be growing a little faster.

I have also read fine hair doesnt have a cortex which may be why it needs protein? just be careful with protein though too much = straw hair.

[CurlyMopTop]

Jojo, what protein conditioner do you use? I've looked around and tried a couple with protein in them, but have'nt found one that my hair likes yet.

[Lilli]

I imagine it has less protein per hair because the hairs are of lower mass than coarse hairs, and hairs are made mainly of protein. Simple as that.

Does all fine hair love protein? No. Absolutely not. Mine hates it. It loves moisture though and really can't seem to get enough.

Agree on all points.

[redcelticcurls]

Coarse hair naturally contains more protein than fine hair.

http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/curly%20hair%20basics.htm

In general, fine hair needs more protein than coarse hair, and porous hair needs more protein than non porous hair.

Almost everyone has a limit to protein tolerance, just as almost everyone had a point here they cam be under or over moisturized.

If one protein doesn't work, another one will. My hair does well with keratin as long as the dew points are high enough for me to justify using protein. Anything else is instant straw-hair.

[skyblue]

I went to sally's and found this product GVP Strengthing Treatment with these ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol,Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Polyquaternium-11, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol,Glycerin, Moringa Pterygosperma Seed Extract, PEG-15 Cocopolyamine, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Polyisobutene, Triisostearin, Stearalkonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-10, Bisamino PEG/PPG-41/3 Aminoethyl PG-Propyl Dimethicone, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Nasturtium Officinale Extract, Equisetum Arvense Extract, Carbenia Benedicta Extract, Prunus Serotina (Wild Cherry) Bark
Extract,PEG-12 Dimethicone, Fragrance (Parfum), Citric Acid, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Nitrate,Benzyl Salicylate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Linalool

so what do you think???? Is it chock full of con's??? The ratings are really good but I'd hate to get it if there are a ton of cones in it, since I've been trying not to use cones

[CurlyMopTop]

I think that there are a couple of water soluble cones in there. I'm not a cone expert though. I avoid them as well, but I'm not great at spotting them in the ingredient list unless the ingredient ends in cone. I went to Sally's yesterday too and bought Ion's Effective hair care treatment. It's a mild protein treatment compared to Ion's reconstructor treatment that I've used a couple of times now. The only thing in the ingredient list that I didn't like was parabens, but I can deal with it. I'm going to try swapping out regular conditioners 1 or 2 times a week to see if I can keep my hair happy on a more consistant basis. :)

[1nuitblanche]

My hair is fine and it likes protein. It seems to lack protein more often than it lacks moisture, but I also live in a region that has fairly high humidity no matter what the rest of the weather is doing.

[Rosetta]

My hair is fine and it likes protein. It seems to lack protein more often than it lacks moisture
Same for me.
My hair always seems stronger after using something with protein.

Quite interesting really, that fine hair seems (for many) to need more protein than other types...

[redcelticcurls]

I went to sally's and found this product GVP Strengthing Treatment with these ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol,Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Polyquaternium-11, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol,Glycerin, Moringa Pterygosperma Seed Extract, PEG-15 Cocopolyamine, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Polyisobutene, Triisostearin, Stearalkonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-10, Bisamino PEG/PPG-41/3 Aminoethyl PG-Propyl Dimethicone, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Nasturtium Officinale Extract, Equisetum Arvense Extract, Carbenia Benedicta Extract, Prunus Serotina (Wild Cherry) Bark
Extract,PEG-12 Dimethicone, Fragrance (Parfum), Citric Acid, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Nitrate,Benzyl Salicylate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Linalool

so what do you think???? Is it chock full of con's??? The ratings are really good but I'd hate to get it if there are a ton of cones in it, since I've been trying not to use cones


The silicones are PEG modified, so they shouldn't build up.

[littlenvy]

I'm in the same boat as most of you. My hair is fine and it really likes protein. :)
Now, I don't use it or add it every day, but the once in a while treatments sure make it look and feel much better.

[jojo]

Jojo, what protein conditioner do you use? I've looked around and tried a couple with protein in them, but have'nt found one that my hair likes yet.

Good ole cheapy VO5 strawberry and cream, its lovely and smells good enough to eat!

Avon does a pretty good one grey bottle!

[Anje]

I went to sally's and found this product GVP Strengthing Treatment with these ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol,Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Polyquaternium-11, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol,Glycerin, Moringa Pterygosperma Seed Extract, PEG-15 Cocopolyamine, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Polyisobutene, Triisostearin, Stearalkonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-10, Bisamino PEG/PPG-41/3 Aminoethyl PG-Propyl Dimethicone, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Nasturtium Officinale Extract, Equisetum Arvense Extract, Carbenia Benedicta Extract, Prunus Serotina (Wild Cherry) Bark
Extract,PEG-12 Dimethicone, Fragrance (Parfum), Citric Acid, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Nitrate,Benzyl Salicylate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Linalool

so what do you think???? Is it chock full of con's??? The ratings are really good but I'd hate to get it if there are a ton of cones in it, since I've been trying not to use cones
Looks like the silicone situation is pretty good. There's at least one in there, but it should be water-soluble. I am seeing a lot of polyquats in there, though, which might build up for some people. You'll have to find out for yourself if you're one of them.

[CurlyMopTop]

I love the v05 line. Especially the Strawberry and Cream. Wow, maybe my hair is more protein craving than I thought. I'll keep experimenting until I find the right mix. Thanks Jojo. :)

[jojo]

^^ no worries honey, just dont try tasting it-I did it tastes nothing like strawberries and cream!

[swearnsue]

I have very fine hair and it seems to like protein. I use Mane N Tail condish about once a week and that hasn't been too much yet. It's confusing tho about moisture vs protein, hair types, climate, good grief!

[Lissandria]

Ugh. Just had protein overload in my hair ends. I hate the dry, roughness. Not even sure what has caused this- my conditioner may be the culprit or even the caca noir I did one week ago. Time to condition.

[Kelikea]

I use the Vo5 strawberries and cream too! It has protein in it from soymilk. Sometimes I also use the Deep Moisturizing Mane and Tail conditioner. I can't use shampoo unless for a very greasy/dirty emergency, as it really irritates my scalp. Good to know that conditioners clean hair and don't bother me as much. I'm hoping the protein strengthens my hair enough for it to grow to tailbone. My hair is fine and has splits on the underneath side.

[sugarpixie10988]

I've got fine hair. If I use anything with protein at all, it will become completely unmanageable.

[Vanilla]

My hair seems to love protein much more than moisture. I do V05 hot oil shower works (it has protein) once a week. I find that I only need moisture treatments once every 3 weeks or so.

[Mesmerise]

Hi,

I recently read (in an advertisement for a shampoo/co brand) that fine hair has 50% less protein than coarser hair. Is this true? If so, should all fine haired people be incorporating protein treatment? Are there any fine haired people out there who's hair hates protein?

Well... it depends what it means by "50% less protein". I mean I can well imagine that 1 strand of 10cm coarse hair would have 50% more protein than 1 strand of 10cm fine hair, simply because it's...well...thicker... But that doesn't mean that the PROPORTION of hair made out of protein is less...just that there's less protein because there's less HAIR!

I think whether you need a protein treatment or not is more related to the condition of your hair, than how fine or coarse it is!

[Fethenwen]

Well... it depends what it means by "50% less protein". I mean I can well imagine that 1 strand of 10cm coarse hair would have 50% more protein than 1 strand of 10cm fine hair, simply because it's...well...thicker... But that doesn't mean that the PROPORTION of hair made out of protein is less...just that there's less protein because there's less HAIR!

I think whether you need a protein treatment or not is more related to the condition of your hair, than how fine or coarse it is!

My thoughts exactly, I guess it depends more on how porous ones hair is, or if it has suffered from protein loss (from bleaching, straighteners, dyeing etc.)

[els23]

I have fine hair and accidentally bought new conditioner with protein and it was a disaster. After that I'm afraid to try anything else with any protein in it. Generally I find that what my hair needs is a lot of moisture.

[LaceyNg]

my fine hair also hates protein. LOVES moisture though!

when i was CO washing with Vo5 conditioners i bought the strawberries and creme one without realizing till i got home that it had protein in it. my hair didnt like it at ALL!
its strange though, b/c i used to dye my hair and straighten it every other day or so, and even that part thats damaged doesnt like protein, even if i moisturize lots afterwards :(

its to the extent that i REALLY avoid protein. so i fell in love with the garnier 3 minute undo, which is protein AND cone free! yay! :)

[Slinks]

my hair is super fine and HATES protien .. I won't use anything that has protien in the ingredients .. I get splits and breakage galore ..

[Trish in SC]

Hey Everyone ~ I'm beginning to think my hair doesn't like protein, because I can't seem to get it feeling more moisturized. It is wavy and fluffy and still feels dry. I doing CWC and coconut oil and SMTs.

I just realized that my conditioner and moisturizer (Tressame Moisture Rich) both have two kinds of protein. But those proteins are halfway down the ingredients list. Could they still be affecting my hair?

Another problem could be that the leave-ins, which I am trying, also have protein: Shea Moisture Curl Smoothie, and Brazilian Keratin treatment.

What do you all think? Are there products out there that don't have protein so I can test this theory?

THANKS for any help! :)

[sipnsun]

Reviving this old thread because I enjoyed reading everyone's experiences with protein and fine hair. My ends which are porous and damaged love protein but the virgin top half is kind of indifferent. I always follow up with a good moisturizing conditioner like Biolage Conditioning Balm or it's generic counterpart from Sally's.

[Finda]

I have f to m hair that hasn't seen scissors in two years. Otherwhise it's virgin. I use a protein and silicone heavy conditioner as my last step and my hair loves it. It feels super smooth afterwards, no tangles whatsoever. I've never had a bad reaction to it at all.

[secret soup]

My hair hates protein of any kind, but especially coconut oil (in any form)! It makes it crunchy and brittle.

[Finda]

My hair hates protein of any kind, but especially coconut oil (in any form)! It makes it crunchy and brittle.

As far as I know coconut oil doesn't have any protein in it.

[secret soup]

As far as I know coconut oil doesn't have any protein in it.

You're right! I just did some research. Apparently a lot of people--myself included--mistakenly think it has protein because it does the same thing to our (protein-sensitive) hair as protein does: makes it dry and crunchy!

I have tried those "strengthening" "reduces breakage" sprays, shampoos, and conditioners--they had rice, soy, or whey protein in them--and now I wonder if my hair didn't like them because they also had coconut oil in them? :confused: It's hard to find products without coconut oil...

[Dark40]

My hair is naturally curly too and it's fine. My hair loves both protein and moisture. It is between a protein and moisture balance. That's why if my hair feels a bit dry one week I'll do a moisturizing treatment, and then the following week I'll do a protein treatment.

[Dark40]

No, also as far as I know coconut oil does not have any protein in it. I was confused. It's only an oil like any other oil.