Made to feel like an idiot today for considering Henna

[wooliswonderful]

This is the condensed version of a conversation that took place this morning:

Hair Stylist Friend - How are you? Do you still want me to come over and color Sapphire's hair? (DD is 15)
Me - I'm wondering if you ever use Henna or other natural dyes?
Stylist Friend - No! It's really bad for your hair.
Me - Ok... I think I'll order some Henna and do it myself then. I'm not comfortable putting harsh chemicals on her head anymore.
Stylist Friend - (Looking shocked) Don't use Henna! It'll ruin it. She won't ever be able to do anything else with her hair.
Me- Why?
Stylist Friend - Henna is full of metallics and impurities that will react to the hair and make it impossible to dye again.
Me- I'm going to order something that is refined and free of metallics. Besides, it's a plant, right?
Stylist Friend - She'll have to grow it out. (in a condescending tone as she turns away)

Her choice of words, tone, and attitude suggested I'm a total moron and going to ruin DD's hair.

I had planned on ordering henna and indigo from a reputable online store for a 2-step process to dye DD's hair black. She has Feria dyed blonde 3a/3b i/ii hair with 3 inch natural medium brown roots. She straightens it every day and has had it razor cut, if that matters. I've been reading everything I can on hennaing and felt confident moving forward. Until today. Now I don't want my friend to come over to cut the girls' hair before school either, I'm getting a bad vibe and don't trust she'll listen to me once she has the scissors in her hands. Our 10 yo has TBL hair that I want just trimmed. I'll probably do that myself now.
Anyway, those with experience please reassure me that I'm not going to "ruin" my daughter's hair. I was going to do a strand test to make sure we didn't go green or fry anything but my friend is trying to convince me that once my daughter has hennaed her hair it will be trashed.

[gabee]

If your daughter is serious about having black hair, then using a 2 step henna/indigo is the way to go, since its actually good for the hair. Doing it with black hair dye would definitely be more damaging. However indigo itself tends to fade so I've heard, so its possible her hair could have a reddish tinge after a few weeks (you can just do another henna/indigo). I'm not sure about this, since I have no experience with indigo, but its possible that your DD's hair might just end up brown since her starting colour is so light (don't quote me on this!). If this is the case I'm sure repeated applications would turn the hair black.

Note that I have no experience with indigo, only henna. Hopefully someone else will help :)

[Crocus]

Someone who knows more than I do can tell you about Feria. I feel like that is one of the dyes that it isn't safe to henna over due to the reflective properties or something. (could be wrong as if things don't apply to me I pretty much forget them, but I used to use Feria a while ago and I remember thinking, "dang, that could have been a problem.") I just Googled it and it looks like it is the other way around, Feria says not to apply over henna.

My stylist friend is really down on henna too and threw out the whole full of metallic dye. I pointed out that it isn't a metallic dye and he HRRRMMMFF'd at me. He's my best friend and doesn't live so I don't have to really listen to it often.

He doesn't really get why I'd want to do it when there is perfectly good hair dye out there and I heard him audibly gasp when I told him on the phone that I was going to stop using shampoo and only use conditioner. You'd have thought that I told him that I was going to sacrifice babies the next full moon. He also gasped like that when we first met and I told him that I didn't own a blow dryer or a curling iron. LOL

I henna'd over my hair dye and it was fine. I did suck it up and wait until my roots were about an inch long so that I'd be sure that there weren't any weird minerals or metals lurking from the hair dye waiting to turn my hair green.

[Heartwillfollow]

does heat treatments affect indigo/ henna as it does for plan henna ??? Does it matter for getting darker since she wants it black?

[wooliswonderful]

does heat treatments affect indigo/ henna as it does for plan henna ??? Does it matter for getting darker since she wants it black?
I'd like to know how straightening would affect it too. I'm trying to convince her to stop anyway. :)

[fairystar32]

I would rather my DD use henna and indigo than the chemical dyes.
I have dyed in between henna with salon dyes (DD convinced me to have streaks, but never again)
I also used henna many years ago straight over salon dye.
Make sure you buy pure 100% baq henna.

[Avital88]

haha i always get the same reaction of hairdressers,after they complemented me on my long thick hair and i then say that i use henna, they look at me like im from the stone age.. but haha i couldnt care less, most hairdressers hair look like **** anyway,so why should i listen to someone who obviously doesnt know and if they say they do know,why isnt that showing then?
Believe in yourself, believe in henna:)

[christine1989]

Luckily my hair stylist is pretty open minded and knows that quality henna can be good for hair. When a stylist tells me that henna is bad for hair I simply tell them that I use it and have thick, healthy hair without even one split end which is usually a lot more than they can claim for their own hair.

[Evie]

The only thing she said that was remotely true was that if your daughter does not like it, she will have to grow it out. So as long as she is sure, then this is fine :) ETA a lot of the other stuff she said about damage, not being able to use anything else over it, etc is all related to pre-mixed henna powders with metallic salts in them, not pure, 100% body art quality henna and indigo that you can buy from places like mehandi.com, hennasooq.com, henna-boy.co.uk, renaissancehenna.co.uk etc (there are plenty of others but these are the places I know ;) I have used box dyes over henndigo when i have not had time to do roots any other way and been fine. But I would not use anything like bleach on indigo......

Indigo might fade a lot after just one use, but if you use it regularly, it will stick and there is very little that can shift it (although Jojo got some great results with color b4 in her recent thread). So if your daughter is sure, and will enjoy the henna and indigo experience, then go for it, but otherwise maybe do a henndigo gloss first to see how she likes it? (henna that has been dye released, indigo, and conditioner, gives a colour boost but not so strong and might give her an indication of how much she'd like it).

The way that your daughter cuts her hair should not make any difference. By the way, I used to either air dry or hairdry my henndigoed hair (esp when it was short) and noticed no difference in the final colour unlike some folks who have found heat darkens henna. HTH

[stacyyyy1972]

I used to be a hairdresser and unfortunately that is what they teach you in school. Fortunately for me my best friend had used henna and so I remembered all the damage we did to our hair together and then how healthy and shiny her hair was after using henna. Years later I decided to take the plunge into all natural as well. That is how I found this site (:
My opinion most are scared of the henna because they are told to be and because they do not have any experience to discount it. I have had henna placed over box color and my hair was fine. Im not to sure though if your daughter wanted to go light again that she may not have some issues getting the indigo to lighten up...I would check into that one. But if she is wanting to keep it dark then indigo would be better than box anyday!

[StormVixen]

Chemical black dye would need to be grown out too... unless you don't mind damaged orange hair from stripping or bleaching... I've been there, I grew the black dye out... :)

[GRU]

Yes, it's a standard hairdresser thing -- they don't understand true henna.

When a friend-of-a-friend who owns a local salon learned that I'd used henna, the first thing she said was, "Don't ever get a perm / straighten your hair!" She obviously had only heard the horror stories of the metallic dye mixes, not BAQ/pure henna. Henna can be applied over perms/dye, and hair can be permed/dyed afterward (but not lightened due to the permanence of henna).

Indigo does fade, as has already been said.

Indigo turns GREEN if you try to bleach it out.
Heat styling can darken henna, but if you're going black anyway, that shouldn't be an issue.

Henna does NOT harm hair, but it IS pretty much permanent. Removing henna can be a very laborious process, most probably resulting in quite a bit of damage.

[lastnite]

there must of been some bad hennas around back in the day (anyone remember the Egyptian brand henna?), because I don't see any here in the US that have metallic salts... like even the premixed Rainbow or Light Mountain brands have been around forever and are only plants.

I was also thinking, since red hair dyes are supposed to fade maybe there's some money to be made there for hairdressers if people have to keep redying red.... if they knew how permanent henna was they would just dye their hair red with henna.

[Viscountess]

there must of been some bad hennas around back in the day (anyone remember the Egyptian brand henna?), because I don't see any here in the US that have metallic salts... like even the premixed Rainbow or Light Mountain brands have been around forever and are only plants.

I was also thinking, since red hair dyes are supposed to fade maybe there's some money to be made there for hairdressers if people have to keep redying red.... if they knew how permanent henna was they would just dye their hair red with henna.
I think you've hit the nail on the head lastnite!!

When I 'broke up' with my hairstylist of 10 years to quit the dye and go to the henna, it was like ending a long term relationship. And it got ugly. I was told I'd ruin my hair, and henna would destroy my colour, she told me I'd have terrible build up (?) and have to cut it all off.

Bollocks. She just liked the $100+ every six weeks from a loyal customer.

[Alvrodul]

As long as she understands that she is NOT going to be able to change her mind about the color - she will not be able to get rid of the henna color once it is in her hair, and if someone waves a bottle of bleach at indigoed hair, it will turn green.
Personally, I love love love my hennaed hair - I get such a lovely color, and don't need to worry about allergic reactions - allergy to henna does happen, but is quite rare. Reactions to indigo are as I understand it more common, but most common of all is allergy to chemical dyes!

Good luck - and I hope your daughter will love her henndigoed hair! :D

[Catia]

As long as she understands that she is NOT going to be able to change her mind about the color - she will not be able to get rid of the henna color once it is in her hair, and if someone waves a bottle of bleach at indigoed hair, it will turn green.


I second this. And third and fourth ...

Yes indigo can fade, but two-step is an indigo beast of a different color.

I have two-stepped for over 5 years. Hendigoed longer then that. I just recently tried Colorfix on shed hair and all it did was turn grayish blue (see post in Colorfix thread)

Hennaed/indigoed hair is a gloriously healthy, shiny, wonderful thing if done right, so of course your friend is wrong. I just hesitate at the color commitment of a 15 year old.

Just my experienced :twocents:

[wooliswonderful]

Thanks for all the advice! My daughter is comfortable with her hair color being permanently dark/black. the major reason she's had it dyed different colors is the box dyes have faded so quickly on her and then we'd have to wait to dye it again. By then she'd gotten frustrated and just wanted a different color.
As I understand it whenever her indigo fades I could color again without worrying about damaging her hair. I talked to her about her hair turning green should she want to bleach it, she says she doesn't mind depending on the shade. :) I'd do a strand test though if it came to that & would rather she grew it out. I think she'll like it though. I feel a lot more empowered this way and think she has more options than if I let my friend do whatever to her head.
I was surprised how adamantly opposed my friend was to natural dye since in other areas like nutrition and immunization she's really conscious of the chemicals involved. I actually thought she might respond with, "Sure I've used natural dyes and would actually rather use them." What I got was a spiel about how safe Paul Mitchell is and of course how bad Henna is.

[caribou55313]

I would not count on a 2-step for black ever fading ... ever! generally it does not fade one little bit, not even years later. If you bleach it out, it's not a pretty shade of green, and it can be hard (often impossible) to get any other sort of dye to take well on the green hair. Not trying to discourage you at all from using plant dyes for your daughter, but just want you both to understand how utterly permanent a 2-step henna/indigo is : ) You can grow it out, you can cut it off, but the chance of any other outcome down the road is extremely slim. Using blonde chemical dye again over indigoed hair likely will result in green hair.

What you *can* do, though, is transition to another color, either gradually or abruptly. For example, she could switch to using just henna, then she'd have black ends and dark auburn roots.

[emelnd]

Pssh... My mom and sister convinced me to dye my hair with henna when I was a teenager without me even asking to dye my hair. And it is just wonderful, her hair will be so soft and nice! The two step process is a little bit messy though, but I think the two of you can manage it.

[Scarlet_Heart]

I was also thinking, since red hair dyes are supposed to fade maybe there's some money to be made there for hairdressers if people have to keep redying red.... if they knew how permanent henna was they would just dye their hair red with henna.

Bingo. Henna is one of the best things to happen to my hair, if not the best (it's a close race between henna, CO, and oiling). I think stubbornly advocating against it in favor or harsh chemical dyes to be closer to the "stupid" side of the spectrum. But that's just my :twocents:.

[Áine]

Some of the unsupportive advice and admonishments I ever got for my hair were from stylists. To me, what I want to do with my own hair is like any other personal decision. We shouldn't be made to feel less-than or backward because of our hair care choices.

[MychelleC]

Feria is a metallic dye - it deposits on the hair shaft and is nearly impossible to remove. I'm not sure how henna will react with the Feria. I'm sure your stylist means well; she is just regurgitating what she was taught. Still, if she is afraid of metallics and build-up she should run from Feria!

[MidnightStar]

For what it's worth, I used Feria for years (caused less damage/looked more natural than any other box dye) and I switched to henna/indigo recently without any problems. But I use BAQ, and I hadn't colored with the Feria for at least six weeks prior to that.
But I'll echo what's been said previously...it's forever, and there's no real getting rid of it without major damage or a major chop. But I will say that my hair is much, much happier and healthier since I made the switch.

[Unofficial_Rose]

Luckily my hair stylist is pretty open minded and knows that quality henna can be good for hair. When a stylist tells me that henna is bad for hair I simply tell them that I use it and have thick, healthy hair without even one split end which is usually a lot more than they can claim for their own hair.

So is my stylist - she used to use henna herself. Not all stylists are prejudiced against henna (though many are). Actually I had one hairstylist rave about my hair's condition and was keen to try henndigo after I told her what it was. I did explain that she could never have highlights afterwards, because they'd go green, but she was OK with that.

Would definitely henndigo your daughter so long as she never wishes to go lighter. And be wary of letting that stylist near her hair with the scissors. :)

[wooliswonderful]

Would definitely henndigo your daughter so long as she never wishes to go lighter. And be wary of letting that stylist near her hair with the scissors. :)
DD doesn't want to go lighter as long as the black is strong. Last time (box dye) it looked awesome the first week and then faded.
On the scissors front I decided to just trim our hair myself. My husband has always done his own and I finally got brave enough to do mine too.
This whole thing is awkward given he has to practice with my friend tonight (church worship team) and I don't want her to bug him about it.
I love her but she's really pushy and opinionated. He actually apologized to me about her attitude as they'd just argued over a song before she came and talked to me. :rolleyes:

[TrudieCat]

Your stylist was definitely misinformed about what you and DD are planning to do. We here at LHC all know that BAQ henna can be wonderful. :) There are so many beautiful hennaheads here.

But. I wouldn't do this. Your daughter has blonde hair now - what if she doesn't like the black? It's not coming out. I would not count on the indigo fading and in being able to dye over it. I would at least have her use a deposit only black dye first and have her live with it for a week or two to see if she likes the color, and then do the 2-step over that if she's absolutely sure it's what she wants. :twocents:

ETA: duh, I see your daughter has already used boxed black dye and liked it. :o So my advice isn't really on point here. Carry on. :oops: Just make sure she understands there's no getting rid of the color, except by growing it out.

[QueenJoey]

That's funny, I had a similar conversation with my hair stylist aunt. I was getting tired of putting chemicals on my head every month, so I asked my aunt if she would do henna for me, and she said the same things about not being able to dye your hair ever again and that I'd have to grow it out.

Not I just don't do anything with my hair, letting it fade as close to virgin as it can get. I'd rather that than have to dye it again.

[getoffmyskittle]

It's true, she will have to grow it out. Henna itself isn't going to trash her hair though.

[tigereye]

If she has brown roots, and it's dyed lighter, then wouldn't the colour have bleach in it? Just a question, because I don't know much about chemical hair colour.
Just because it's normally not a good idea to put indigo over bleach because it looks rather green. But if it doesn't have bleach then fine. Also, if you're going to be doing it over henna, then it'll be so dark then Im not sure you would even notice, and if anything, then another henna over the rest might cancel it out.

Anyway. You're not going to ruin your daughters hair. Just use BAQ and you'll be fine. She'll have stronger hair, and you might be able to convince your friend that henna isn't as bad as she thinks.
I don't think straightening will make much difference. It just darkens henna, so if you're already colouring black, then it's not likely to make much difference. If anything it'll make it blacker.

[Foxy_Booker]

I hennaed over Feria ruby red about a month after dying it and I had no problems at all

[missdelarocha]

Hi, sorry to get the thread going again but I was just wondering what you and your daughter decided to do and thought I'd suggest a henndigo to achieve something more her natural colour, a medium brown, before she went black, considering you'll have to get the henna and indigo anyway you may as well try that first if you wanted to... :]

[ktani]

The stylist was also accurate about henna that contains metallics and imputities being problematic to say the least. That may be the only kind of henna she has had experience with in terms of results or heard about.

[brickworld13]

I had a similar conversation with DF's stylist. She has cut my hair in the past, but I don't get a cut very often. She asked what I used to make it red and then flipped when I said it was henna. She wouldn't hear a word of how I used BAQ henna. To her it was all bad and ruining my hair. Never mind that it looks and feels a ton better than it used to.

[spike316]

So she has a problem with henna, but Feria is ok? Feria actually does contain metals (which is why it leaves that metallic shine) my stylist won't color anyone's hair who has Feria in it. :S

[sibiryachka]

The stylist was also accurate about henna that contains metallics and imputities being problematic to say the least. That may be the only kind of henna she has had experience with in terms of results or heard about.

I think that's probably true. A couple of weeks ago I met a young woman who's only been out of cosmetology school a year or so. She complimented my color, but when I told her I use henna...

Actually, the look on her face made me giggle - she's young enough that I could be her mother, but she got this awesome prissy disapproving lips/chin pulled way back thing going, and said "Oh, so you use metallic salts??" in a tone that said I was in for a serious talking-to! (Now that I think about it, she does have a 4-year-old...:p)

When I cut her short and explained oh nononono, I use only the 100% pure stuff people use for body art, it was the first she'd ever heard about it. The really cool outcome was that she's now very curious about the process, and wants to come watch me "do myself" and learn more about it so she can possibly add henna to the list of services she can offer her clients. Luckily she lives nearby, and since I touch up my roots every month, I think we'll be doing that soon.

If I can get just one cosmetologist in my town turned toward the henna side... Imagine the possible ripple effect!

[Neya]

I think it depends on the schooling.
My aunt is a color specialist (actually, two are but I havent seen the other since she moved). She gave me a look, and I elaborated "the real stuff, without metallic salts" she said "Oh, THAT we can fix if we need to".
However, she was totally surprised by the henna halo and in fact had to hold back from laughing.

[akilina]

This is shocking!!! Im a hair stylist and I color my hair with henna! and i love telling people that i do as well to see their reaction :) Its wonderful and not damaging at all...we all know this!