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View Full Version : Is the coney silkiness better for your hair?



Lilli
August 19th, 2011, 07:17 AM
I had been avoiding all cones for a long time, and recently I decided to try them again. I got some Herbal Essences coney products and actually liked them. My hair was very shiny and slick feeling, just from using shampoo and conditioner, no oils or leave-ins. It also combed like a dream.

Yesterday I got some Aveda conditioner with no cones, and a shampoo with light cones. It was super-hard to comb, and it looks okay now that it is dry, but not as shiny and slick. My first thought is that the conditioner is not moisturizing enough, which may be true, but it also might be that I just got used to the coney slickness.

So, my question is this - was that coney slickness better for my hair? Did the looking shiny and smooth mean that it was happier?

thestookem
August 19th, 2011, 07:30 AM
Yes that coney slickness was better for your hair, because when hair strands rub together thorough the coarse of a day a small amount of damage occurs. The coney slickness decreases this friction and protects the hair, however cone build up can occur very quickly (in my hair at least). The cone build up adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the hair and can increase shedding.

In short, yes the coney slickness was good but be careful of buildup, also shiny hair is always happy hair.

GoldberryHair
August 19th, 2011, 07:32 AM
For some people, cones are bad, but for others, they're actually really good. You may be one of the latter. I'm not really sure about mine, I haven't paid attention, but now that you've brought it up I think I may :)

kanaka
August 19th, 2011, 08:22 AM
ya for my hair coney slickness is good. My hair has its shine naturally but cones makes my hair lot shiny. Its good for me :) and of course shiny hair is always happy:)

like GoldberryHair said it may be good for some like us but may be bad for others....

pepperminttea
August 19th, 2011, 08:25 AM
It's swings and roundabouts really. :shrug: A little bit of 'cone for me makes detangling easier and less damaging, but too much dries out my ends and causes more splits, so I have to be careful not to overdo it.

alyanna
August 19th, 2011, 08:38 AM
I tend to agree with what you're saying.

I've also been cone-free since March, then last week, just for fun, I decided to shampoo with Pantene. I really liked the results. And I do find going cone-free means hair that is more difficult to detangle when wet and more prone to tangles once dry.

This may not be as much of an issue for some people, but in my case, with fine, thin hair, I'm starting to wonder whether cones may have a good protectant factor.

I do remember though, when I used to use cones exclusively, having really, really dry hair. Cones build up quickly so you do have to be mindful. I personally haven't made the switch yet from cone-free CO washing.

annieangel149
August 19th, 2011, 08:41 AM
like what has been already said, there is nothing wrong with coney silkiness. after three months with no cone conditioner washes and then four months of shampoo and conditioner cone washes im still undecided! I liked the feel of coney silkiness but my hair got so wayed down! I am now on a new routine journey of washing with shampoo and conditioner no cone washes because i missed the light (not wayed down feel) that no cones gives me! It is more a preference i guess! If you use cones you need to watch out for build up which can cause dryness to ends etc, and if you use no cones you have to comb/brush carefully because in my case my hair can get more tangly. :)

Rusticular
August 19th, 2011, 08:45 AM
After switching to cone-free, I've started noticing that my hair really did like them, I just overdid it and it caused a decent amount of dryness and damage. A happy balance is the way to go, I think! Coney conditioner every couple of days, intermingled with cone-free and a gentle cleanser, then a bit of coconut oil works a treat! Happy happy balance. Happy happy..

BeckyAH
August 19th, 2011, 08:46 AM
For me and my hair - yes, absolutely. Weighing my hair down is not a bad thing, at least not as far as I'm concerned, and anything that makes it easier to detangle is good in my book. But I abuse the hell out of some of my hair with bleach, so cone protection is a good thing. ...and I've never had an issue with buildup, for whatever reason.

PJ-Sander
August 19th, 2011, 08:48 AM
I tend to agree with what you're saying.

This may not be as much of an issue for some people, but in my case, with fine, thin hair, I'm starting to wonder whether cones may have a good protectant factor.

This is me as well. I've tried going cone-free more than once over the past 5 years but always had disastrous results. Cones are my friend!

Copasetic
August 19th, 2011, 09:48 AM
I had been avoiding all cones for a long time, and recently I decided to try them again. I got some Herbal Essences coney products and actually liked them. My hair was very shiny and slick feeling, just from using shampoo and conditioner, no oils or leave-ins. It also combed like a dream.

Yesterday I got some Aveda conditioner with no cones, and a shampoo with light cones. It was super-hard to comb, and it looks okay now that it is dry, but not as shiny and slick. My first thought is that the conditioner is not moisturizing enough, which may be true, but it also might be that I just got used to the coney slickness.

So, my question is this - was that coney slickness better for my hair? Did the looking shiny and smooth mean that it was happier?

It sounds like your hair really likes cones! Welcome to the club :)

JuliaDancer
August 19th, 2011, 09:59 AM
My hair is noticeably softer since I went cone free around April, but when I recently used a coney conditioner, my hair had a lot of slip. It's shiny either way. However, the slip doesn't last for me, as I think it dries out my hair. As I was growing out my hair past waist, I realized my hair was splitting and drying, hence my reason for finding LHC. So now, I go cone-free, but if I'm going out and want my hair down, I sometimes use cones, and have slippery, still soft hair. Then the next time I wash my hair, I use a chelating shampoo and go back to cone free...

MychelleC
August 19th, 2011, 09:59 AM
My hair loves 'cones. I have gone without and not been happy with the results. With 'cones my hair is shiny, soft, and tangle free. I have studied cosmetic chemistry extensively and make all of my own hair care products, and I include silicons in almost everything. The build-up associated with silicone is actually very overstated. We see far more build-up with ingredients often used to replace silicons, such as the cationic compounds (i.e. polyquats, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride - cationic guar gum, etc). Also, if your shampoo or conditioner contains cetrimonium chloride (mild cationic detangler used in most rinse off hair products) that is cutting through the silicone build-up as you wash. Not every head of hair loves silicone, curlies in particular, and they can weigh down hair if not used lightly, but they are better for our hair than many people believe. I put them in the shampoos and conditioners I make for my friends, even the ones who think they are 'cone haters, and they love the products and results.

spidermom
August 19th, 2011, 10:08 AM
I like cones, but I like being able to control exactly how much I'm using, so I have cone-free shampoo and conditioner. I use CHI Silk Infusion (coney serum) about once a week. I love how it makes detangling so much easier.

CariadA
August 19th, 2011, 11:07 AM
I also have fine hair and have been experimenting with cones lately.

Cones really help keep my hair shiny and tangle free. But the only washing method my scalp seems to like is CO. So I do sort of what Spidermom does and control my cone use. I use cone-free conditioners to wash my hair, but I apply a drop of coney serum when needed. I generally only use it when I wear my hair down, about two to four times a month (if we go out with friends and I want to look extra nice). At the beginning of every month, I clarify. I never get noticeable buildup that way and my hair never gets weighed down.

annieangel149
August 19th, 2011, 12:19 PM
My hair loves 'cones. I have gone without and not been happy with the results. With 'cones my hair is shiny, soft, and tangle free. I have studied cosmetic chemistry extensively and make all of my own hair care products, and I include silicons in almost everything. The build-up associated with silicone is actually very overstated. We see far more build-up with ingredients often used to replace silicons, such as the cationic compounds (i.e. polyquats, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride - cationic guar gum, etc). Also, if your shampoo or conditioner contains cetrimonium chloride (mild cationic detangler used in most rinse off hair products) that is cutting through the silicone build-up as you wash. Not every head of hair loves silicone, curlies in particular, and they can weigh down hair if not used lightly, but they are better for our hair than many people believe. I put them in the shampoos and conditioners I make for my friends, even the ones who think they are 'cone haters, and they love the products and results.

the hair products i use have no parabens or sulphates but they do have silicone in. I have just noticed this on the bottle! maybe that is why my hair is liking this product better?

mallorykay13
August 19th, 2011, 12:28 PM
My hair would not be the same without cones. I dont even want to think about it. I use cones for even my CO wash.

McFearless
August 19th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Cones are amazing for tangles. I get most of my breakage from trying to undo knots and tangles and cones help with that. They're also good for holding in moisture. I think a balanced routine with truly moisturising products and cones can work beautifully.

Lilli
August 20th, 2011, 06:20 AM
I have been obsessing an inordinate amount about this new Aveda shampoo & conditioner purchase that sparked my post.

I got the Blue Malva shampoo which really does make my blonde look nice. I got Shampure conditioner, which I think is not quite moisturizing enough. I used to use John Frieda blonde products when I was coney years ago, but my hair would always get really dry at the ends, which made me think cones were bad. I think that the answer is I need a lot of moisture, and some cones at the bottom for protection. I think Spidermom and others have the right idea with using a coney leave-in.

Now the only problem is returning the Aveda conditioner... I am so afraid of the lady who owns the salon and feel dumb returning it.

DarleneH
August 20th, 2011, 06:44 AM
I also have been experimenting with cone free compared to my old Garnier Fructis full-of-cones stuff, and I have found my hair snarls more, looks drier, and a friend commented the other day that it looked worse since I've been using less cones. So I need to try to find my hair's balance of the two like some of you have.



Cones are amazing for tangles. I get most of my breakage from trying to undo knots and tangles and cones help with that. They're also good for holding in moisture. I think a balanced routine with truly moisturising products and cones can work beautifully.

What are those truly moisturizing products? Sometimes something that seems to have a moisturizing effect (like these cone products we're talking about) really are not.

RainbowHawk
August 20th, 2011, 08:18 AM
When I switched from a coney conditioner-only to water-only regimen, my hair became shinier and more slippery. I've noticed over the years that even using just conditioner, my hair felt great in the shower and during detangling but as soon as it was dry it *felt* dry and awful. It could appear very shiny or very dull, but it always felt kind of dry (and when it was dull and feeling dry, it was just plain blechy). I learned years ago that smoothing serums like frizz-ease which are primarily made of silicone did indeed make my hair easier to heat-process with beautiful, shiny results but if I tried to wear my hair curly with the silicone, it would end up looking like I had a sheet of oil on my head and feeling like I had painted something smooth over something rough (to say nothing of how *awful* it felt after using any kind of shampoo to remove it).

Removing cones from my hair's diet left me with much more softness and bounce, and a much more natural looking, healthier feeling shine-- even before I discovered the miracle that is protein. :o So for me, cones are definitely a Bad Thing and lead to further Bad Things for my hair. If you had an experience like mine, you would definitely know that cones aren't for you, but it sounds like your hair really enjoys them (at least in moderation).

Lilli
August 20th, 2011, 08:37 AM
What are those truly moisturizing products? Sometimes something that seems to have a moisturizing effect (like these cone products we're talking about) really are not.

I agree, this would be a good new thread. I look for conditioners where there are several moisturizers (cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol) listed before any cones. Herbal Essences Long Term Relationship fits this bill.

I am also going to get some AVG and do a clarifying and SMT once a week to keep it moisturized.

And finally, I am going to get the nerve to exchange the Shampure Conditioner for the Blue Malva conditioner and use the Blue Malva set as needed to keep it bright.

Lilli
August 20th, 2011, 08:38 AM
When I switched from a coney conditioner-only to water-only regimen, my hair became shinier and more slippery. I've noticed over the years that even using just conditioner, my hair felt great in the shower and during detangling but as soon as it was dry it *felt* dry and awful. It could appear very shiny or very dull, but it always felt kind of dry (and when it was dull and feeling dry, it was just plain blechy). I learned years ago that smoothing serums like frizz-ease which are primarily made of silicone did indeed make my hair easier to heat-process with beautiful, shiny results but if I tried to wear my hair curly with the silicone, it would end up looking like I had a sheet of oil on my head and feeling like I had painted something smooth over something rough (to say nothing of how *awful* it felt after using any kind of shampoo to remove it).

Removing cones from my hair's diet left me with much more softness and bounce, and a much more natural looking, healthier feeling shine-- even before I discovered the miracle that is protein. :o So for me, cones are definitely a Bad Thing and lead to further Bad Things for my hair. If you had an experience like mine, you would definitely know that cones aren't for you, but it sounds like your hair really enjoys them (at least in moderation).

I don't think this has happened to my hair, which makes me think that cones are not bad for me. The only thing was that using them without moisture did eventually lead to dryness. my hair used to be shiny without any conditioner, but it has dried as I've aged.

Thinthondiel
August 20th, 2011, 09:21 AM
I don't think cones are bad for my hair, exactly, but about a day after using a coney conditioner my hair starts looking kind of greasy near the scalp. Plus, if I use cones, I have to use a sulphate shampoo to get them out and avoid build-up, and my scalp gets flaky and my hair becomes dry and frizzy when I use sulphates (or at least sulphate shampoos - there are sulphates in the Bodyshop conditioner I use now, but apparently not enough to cause any trouble). So I stay away from cones, mostly.

ETA: So what I'm saying is, I don't think the cones themselves are bad for my hair. And if you don't experience any problems with them, then they're probably not bad for your hair either.

Celebrian
August 20th, 2011, 11:22 AM
:writer: Hmmm, I don't know what to think. Trying cones/no cones and not sure where I'm headed. Last couple of days I've used Lush S &C - so we'll see (when this mane has dried!)

beccababesx
August 20th, 2011, 12:42 PM
As far as I can tell, the issue with cones isn't that they make your hair look bad, it's that they damage your hair by locking the moisture out, and they require very harsh and damaging stripping chemicals to remove them.

McFearless
August 20th, 2011, 03:13 PM
What are those truly moisturizing products? Sometimes something that seems to have a moisturizing effect (like these cone products we're talking about) really are not.

Like Lilli said this would be a good thread idea. I'm horrible at understanding ingredients. I hope somebody can come in here and tell us what to look for.

I'm thinking a rich cone free conditioner for deep treatments and cones in the shower to detangle. The moisturizing conditioners would be used as often as needed and then followed by a coney conditioner.
Many people on here love Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose for moisture. Lately I've been using L'Oreal EverPure rosemary and mint deep restorative masque. My hair seems soft but it gets dry within one day so I'm not all that impressed.

jojo
August 21st, 2011, 07:29 AM
Cones or no cones theres no right or wrong. If your hair feels good, then stick with it. My hair likes no cones, not because ive anything against cones it just looks better, however i use a coney serum, which gives me some control on how much i use. Cones in conditioner sometimes (not always) make my hair go lank.

ktani
August 21st, 2011, 08:05 AM
There is nothing wrong with using silicone in hair care, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=185.

Cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, cetearyl alcohol are all waxy and can build-up on hair too causing dryness. It is about how much of what is in any product and how often it is used.

Lilli
August 21st, 2011, 10:09 AM
There is nothing wrong with using silicone in hair care, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=185.

Cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, cetearyl alcohol are all waxy and can build-up on hair too causing dryness. It is about how much of what is in any product and how often it is used.

So are there any moisturizers that don't build up?

Lianna
August 21st, 2011, 10:20 AM
I wash everyday like you, OP. I like cones, but I like no cones too. Cetearyl alcohol builds-up fast on me (and many other things). I think only very water solubles completly won't build up. But if you shampoo everyday you don't need to worry about build up from moisturizers. Only about cones if you don't use the right detergent for that particular cone.

ktani
August 21st, 2011, 10:43 AM
So are there any moisturizers that don't build up?

All conventional conditioners build-up over time. That is what the "See a difference in x amount of time" is all about. They are designed to leave their conditioning benefits behind each time you use them.

The answer if you use conditioner is to clarify your hair every so often, but not too much, to prevent the clarifying products from causing dryness.

georgia_peach
August 21st, 2011, 10:49 AM
There is nothing wrong with using silicone in hair care, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=185.

Cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, cetearyl alcohol are all waxy and can build-up on hair too causing dryness. It is about how much of what is in any product and how often it is used. Thanks for the link Ktani. I was just getting ready to ask you for this info over on another thread that is discussing silicone. I've been trying to go cone free and my hair is not happy. I feel like I'm back on the right path now. :)

ktani
August 21st, 2011, 11:04 AM
Thanks for the link Ktani. I was just getting ready to ask you for this info over on another thread that is discussing silicone. I've been trying to go cone free and my hair is not happy. I feel like I'm back on the right path now. :)

You are most welcome!

Natural conditioners can build-up too like aloe gel, cocoa butter (high in stearic acid), shea butter and many herbs that contain mucilage or resins.

ktani
August 21st, 2011, 11:18 AM
I wash everyday like you, OP. I like cones, but I like no cones too. Cetearyl alcohol builds-up fast on me (and many other things). I think only very water solubles completly won't build up. But if you shampoo everyday you don't need to worry about build up from moisturizers. Only about cones if you don't use the right detergent for that particular cone.

It depends on what shampoo you use and even then, unless you stop the product that builds-up, your shampoo may not be able to remove all product build-up.

Many cosmetic companies have added cetyl and cetearyl alcohols to shampoos to make them more conditioning, adding to the build-up problem. The shampoo itself causes build-up.

AnnaJamila
August 21st, 2011, 11:26 AM
Some people respond really well to cones, others not. Just try not to over indulge, that seems to be where problems come in! ;)

annieangel149
August 21st, 2011, 11:45 AM
i just wanted to say thankyou to everyone who has replied to this thread! I have found it incredibly helpful!
I tried going back on no cones but after two days of trying i woke up this morning to a terribly dry frizzy mess! I nearly screamed when i saw myself in the mirror! so i rushed out this afternoon to grab a lighter coney shampoo & conditioner for normal hair (im thinking it wasn't that my hair doesn't like cones but that i was using a cone shampoo and conditioner that was just wrong for my hair type/ too heavy on my hair)! i am sitting here now after using it and my hair is soft again! ....what a relief!!!
so im not going to chase after no cone products trying to find one that works anymore! Instead im going to find a cone product that does not weigh my hair down so much!!! :D

thankyou again for your help xx

Lilli
August 21st, 2011, 01:31 PM
All conventional conditioners build-up over time. That is what the "See a difference in x amount of time" is all about. They are designed to leave their conditioning benefits behind each time you use them.

The answer if you use conditioner is to clarify your hair every so often, but not too much, to prevent the clarifying products from causing dryness.

So I clarified today with my leftover Prell, and then used my usual deep treatment (Burts Bees Grapefruit Shea deep conditioner.) It feels fine now, so tomorrow I will try something coney and see what happens. I'm hoping once a week or so will be enough.

Once my hair is long enough to cut out damage, I will be so happy, b/c from scalp to chin is healthy and needs very little, but from chin down, it has been straightened a lot and is more dry and damaged.

Lianna
August 21st, 2011, 02:38 PM
It depends on what shampoo you use and even then, unless you stop the product that builds-up, your shampoo may not be able to remove all product build-up.

Many cosmetic companies have added cetyl and cetearyl alcohols to shampoos to make them more conditioning, adding to the build-up problem. The shampoo itself causes build-up.

Yes, that's why I made the comment about the right detergent. My shampoo has dimethicone and SLES and I don't build up from it. I don't use different clarifying shampoos. I think the SLES in there prevents too much dimethicone on my hair, thus no build-up. :) Or perhaps this particular shampoo just have the right amounts (not too much conditioning, though it doesn't dry my hair or I wouldn't use it everyday :p).

vanillabones
August 21st, 2011, 02:52 PM
Ugh I really don't like the aveda products. I had a shampoo and conditioner both with cones and my hair really didn't like either one. I was so relieved to use them up. I love herbal essences however and all their coney goodness. :)

ktani
August 21st, 2011, 02:57 PM
Yes, that's why I made the comment about the right detergent. My shampoo has dimethicone and SLES and I don't build up from it. I don't use different clarifying shampoos. I think the SLES in there prevents too much dimethicone on my hair, thus no build-up. :) Or perhaps this particular shampoo just have the right amounts (not too much conditioning, though it doesn't dry my hair or I wouldn't use it everyday :p).

My shampoo, Sunsilk Lively Blonde has 1 silicone, dimethicone, and does not build-up on my hair. It is the formulation plus the ingredients. It looks like we both have good shampoos in that way.

However, I do not consider the Lively Blonde to be a clarifying shampoo. It can remove product build-up over time and has for me, when I stopped using the products in question (conditioner and certain herbs/plants).

Ashenputtel
August 21st, 2011, 10:14 PM
I don't use cone for eco-toxicity reasons. However, like K-tani said, non-cone also tends to build up and I do need to occasionnaly clarify.

The only thing I truly miss about cones is detangling with them.

I like the fact that being cone free gives my hair more volume and wave.

I won't be switching back on a regular basic and will only use them once in a while for cosmetic reasons.

Celebrian
August 28th, 2011, 06:09 AM
So, to attempt an over-simplification here: is it a case of using what the hell you like and whatever works for you AS LONG as you clarify every so often. Should we all consider clarifying from time to time, regardless of whether we are cone/no-cone?

I think this may the case for me. When something that has worked for a time ceases working, I reach for the clarifying shampoo, and start afresh. My only problem is that I color my roots deep brown (greys!) and I suspect (tho' I may be quite wrong) that clarifying strips color quicker.

oktobergoud
August 28th, 2011, 07:01 AM
My hair likes cones better as well! But now it's getting healthier it's starting to like no-cones as well... however, cones make it feel like silk but also very very heavy. So the next day all my waves are gone and it just lays flat against my head, ugh :(

Lilli
August 28th, 2011, 07:27 AM
I have always had to clarify, even when using non-coney products, and I am really liking the slip that cones give for detangling. There is such a thing as too much, though (Herbal Essences Long-Term Relationship builds up in about 2 days of use for me, for example.) Also my hair is blonde so buildup makes it darker, so that motivates me to clarify.

DonyaleM
August 28th, 2011, 10:11 AM
I can't speak for everyone, but they are definitely better for me. I tried the no cone - no poo thing for a while and my hair was extremely dull and limp. Cones in general just help me take care of my hair better. I don't have to work as hard when I detangle.

luxepiggy
August 28th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Coney silkiness is definitely better for my hair. It's better for my sanity too (^(oo)^)