need experts on this one

[mamaherrera]

I have wavy/curly hair. Lately I've quit all -cones, and am working on defining my curl trying to get it to clump. I have normal density, not tons of hair like I'd like or like I use to, but anyways. . . Lately this is my issue. I work no clumping, scrunching upside down, adding a leave in, then I put in gel and scrunch. I plop too. Anyways. . . no matter which way I do it, or what I put in (i've tried lots of gels) the result is the same. I get decent clumping all around, but there's spiderweb frizz surrounding all those back curls. You can't see it when it's dry until you lift up a curl, and it's a rat's nest in there. I can't put it up in ponytails, because then all that frizz is more obvious. I don't know what to do. I don't know if it's an issue with products, (doubt it) clumping, I DON"T KNOW> But I"d like any input. thanks

[Anje]

Whenever someone complains that their hair isn't doing what they want it to do anymore, I tend to ask whether they've clarified recently. If you haven't, it might be worth a shot, just to see if that changes anything.

Honestly, though, I suspect that with silicone-free, you might need something more left in to hold the clumps well. Maybe let it dry with some conditioner in it in addition to your gel? I also wonder if how you're manipulating the sides is causing the clumps in the back to pull apart and frizz. See if just altering how you handle the hair nearing the back of your head makes a difference.

[CurlyMopTop]

I'll be watching this thread. I've ran into the rats nest issue within the underlying layers in the back as well on more than one occasion. It would be nice to know how to avoid it. :)

[americanjan1]

I found that COwashing gave me the best results for the rat's nest. It took a couple of times but after I ditched shampoo altogether I found that my tangles decreased significantly. I also went cone-free and I think that helps too. I have the frizz around my curls as well. It's getting better.

[Mesmerise]

Cones seem to be the one thing that helps me get rid of my frizz... maybe going cone free is a problem for your hair? What was your hair like when you used cones??

[mamaherrera]

Ok I've done the clarifying step, someone else advisd me on that and I still ahve the same frizz. some tell me it's overconditioning, others tell me it's too much protein. And I do notice my co-wash, and rinse out conditioner have protein, so could that be it??? This is confusing as all heck. And yes, something is not letting those clumps form? do I need to maybe comb through?? Wide or fine-tooth?

[mamaherrera]

Honestly I dont remember!! I didn't use much cones, so I dont know. Could it just be an adjustment period??

[Jader_Jem]

I had the same problem, I started CWC but I went back to cones, and I havent had to use any hair products at all except I like to use silk drops on my damp hair seems to be working alot better

[Jader_Jem]

But I also just comb my hair with wide tooth comb and then leave it along and untouched to dry :)

[Anje]

I suspect you could use more conditioning/moisture, not less. If your hair is being unusually tangly and snappy and dry, I'd blame protein, but otherwise it doesn't seem worth going out of your way to avoid it.

Have you tried an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128)? It's a moisture treatment that works like magic for a lot of people. CO washing is also a good way to go for curls, since frizz tends to decrease the more moisturized hair gets.

ETA: And no, clarifying in and of itself won't decrease frizz. I didn't say it would. But if you had buildup that was preventing moisture penetration that was causing the frizz, that's gone now. So as always, follow clarifying with some good moisture.

[BlazingHeart]

I've only known one curly well enough to know her routine (former housemate) and she had to coil her hair around her fingers or around rods to get the back to behave. She just scrunched the sides, but the back didn't behave well unless she coiled it around something at that stage. Might work for you? She would comb it out to deal with the tangles, then gel and wrap around whatever she was using, then slide the rod or finger out rather than unwinding. She only had to do that once a week, but it was vital for her if she wanted nice curls in the back.

~Blaze

[Anje]

Oh, if you're actually 3c, you might find the methods described in Tightly Curly (http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome) to be useful. It sounds really labor-intensive to me, but my hair is a lot more low-maintenance than your coily stuff.