Help. Just... Help.

[cheddarbiscuit]

I've got a confession to make: I haven't been taking good care of my hair.

It falls between my waist and tailbone, I'm really not sure which. It's a lovely shade of red, very fine, but thick as all get out. I don't know if its because I'm weak, or my hair is just that thick, but I can't hold it up for too long or my arm will start to hurt. (Laugh. Please laugh. I'm serious, but laugh anyway.)

Don't get me wrong, I love my hair and I want to keep it, but it could be better. It's frizzy, (I've already resolved to try the anti-frizz recipe here, just can't find it again!) and breaks easily. But, to speak in my defense, I don't have a lot of split ends, so I must be doing something right.

My scalp has this... problem. I want to say its dandruff, but I always assumed that was flakes, this is more like a disgusting, oily, grey... mass that collects on the bristles of my hairbrush. I don't know what to do about it, and it is kind of embarrassing to talk about, and I can't use a friends brush with out it getting covered in oily, grey, disgusting... mass.

I know, it's gross, I want it gone, too.

I've been using Head and Shoulders because that is what my parents get, but I can drive, so I could run out and get a different kind of shampoo. I stopped using conditioner a while ago, because I did not like how heavy it made my hair feel, I prefer soft and fluffy, not heavy and shiny.

Like I said, my hair's a pretty color, but it's really low quality.

So now I've stumbled across this place. Lots of members here probably know what they are doing. I've already got the length, I just need the quality.

So, please help? I'll take recipes, product recommendations, anything you can give.

[Alaia]

The oily stuff might be build up. Try clarifying with a clarifying shampoo (or you can use Baking Soda if you like, but look up recipes here).

It could also be that since you aren't using conditioner (which by the way will probably contribute to your frizz) your scalp is over-producing oil because you are drying out the scalp.

Head and Shoulders isn't terribly nice to your hair or scalp, because it's designed to get rid of dandruff (or at least, it's not very nice to mine!). Try using a different shampoo and try using conditioner (and if you don't like heavy conditioners, there are light ones that don't weigh down the hair).

[MissAlida]

First of all welcome to LHC:flowers:. If you need help, support, tips, you've come to the right place.
About your problem...I think you should stop using Head and Shoulders. I've been using it for years, because I had flakes that turned to something like you described if I didn't wash my hair every 3 days. On top of that I used another shampoo for greasy hair...so 2 shampoos, and both of them on the whole lenght:(. Since I've found LHC , the first thing I've changed was the shampooing. I stopped using Head and Shoulders, and my flakes are gone.:DOf course it needs couple of weeks of transition time(2-3 weeks), but they did disappear. Then I used with succes the hybrid washing method: detangle carefully, condition the lenght(you can dilute conditioner in water if it seems too heavy applying straight to hair from the bottle, and spray the diluted conditioner on hair), then put a tiny amount of shampoo on scalp and massage with the pads of your fingers(not nails!) to loosen the sebum and dirt. Then rinse it all off and air dry. Air drying is very good for hair. Or you could try and do a clarifying wash with baking soda, followed by apple cider vinegar(ACV) rinse. That might loosen the "mass" on your scalp, but it is better if you do this every 2-3 weeks, so you don't remove the oil produced by your scalp and end up drying your hair out. There are also threads on CO(conditioner only) and WO(water only), as well as NW(no water) washing methods as well. Some people find that these work for them, others use a mixture of these washing methods. You should look into deep treatments as well, since you said your hair breaks easily and it is frizzy...maybe some oiling would help, or an egg yolk with some honey(honey might lighten hair!)...
Wow this became a long reply. So, keep on reading, there is plenty of information on the forums, don't hesitate to ask for help, and good luck:).

[torrilin]

That's not a scalp problem. That's sebum, the natural oils your skin produces mixed with dead skin cells. This happens to everyone, and it is normal and healthy. If your body doesn't produce sebum or shed dead skin cells, you have really messed up skin and hair and a serious medical condition. Depending on your exact routine, you can work with your natural sebum so it works to protect and moisturize your hair, or you can keep it at a moderate level so it cares for the first couple inches of roots, or you can try to nearly eliminate it.

As far as sebum build up on your brushes and combs... the simple solution is to WASH THEM. I use mostly unfinished wooden combs, so a lot of the sebum just gets absorbed into the wood. Maybe once or twice a year, the comb will start getting a bit grimy from dead skin cells and will need a bit of a scrub. My brush is maybe 15 years old and made of boar bristles. It can also be washed, but it needs it a lot more than my comb does. A bit of shampoo or liquid soap will do the job for them both.

For me... going without conditioner is pretty unrealistic. Too many tangles. Different conditioners work differently, and the ones that work best for me are mostly for providing slip so I can detangle my hair.

[Anje]

First, I think you need conditioner. Your hair is dry and breaking and frizzy because it needs moisture, and you're only using shampoo which strips moisture from it. If your scalp doesn't do well with conditioner, you don't need to put it there, just ears or shoulders on down. You might want to stick with something lightweight, like VO5 or Suave Naturals.

As for the gray gross stuff, it could be buildup, it could be sebum mixed with dust, it could be that you've got some sort of scalp condition that's going to need topical medication. Apparently H&S doesn't work, so you might as well try something else, right? How often are you shampooing your scalp now, and does it get rid of all of the gray stuff that's there then?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and tell you to try a sulfate-free shampoo. Maybe consider switching to a soap-based shampoo bar (http://chagrinvalleysoapandcraft.com/shambar.htm) for problematic scalps. Shampoo with that, condition the length, and follow everything up with a rinse of a 10% Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) in water. Leave that in, the smell usually dissipates as it dries if you don't make it too strong.

Even if you stick with the Head & Shoulders, try the ACV rinse. That helps a lot of angry scalps.

[Jimothea]

Wow cheddarbiscuit, your hair sounds lovely! *sigh for tailbone hair* You're in the right place to help instill good habits! Though my hair is probably nothing like yours, I thought I'd point you in the direction of the things I've found helpful, with links.

For frizzing, are you a curly or a wavy? If so, check here for tips and tricks: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=369&highlight=wavy+thread

Also for frizzing, I've found going to conditioner-only (CO) washing really helps--but I have wavy hair, and I think that's why. You might want to check out the different washing threads, and see what routines someone uses who has similar hair to your own. Here's some starter links for CO, water-only/sebum only (WO/SO), and oil shampooing (there are TONS of washing method threads, these are just a few):
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2898&highlight=wavy+thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=144&highlight=wavy+thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025&highlight=movie+star+method

I have scalp issues too; I think in fact a lot more people do than want to admit. Incidentally, dandruff shampoos KILL my hair and don't seem to do much for my scalp, since my issue isn't dandruff at all. Personally, I'd cut that from my routine if I were you. Yours at least *sounds* like excess sebum. Someone the other day remarked it was a supply-demand type of thing; if your scalp "thinks" its too dry, it produces more, just in case. So a harsh shampoo is actually a bad idea for excess sebum, even though that may be the only thing which washes it out of your hair, it's tricking your scalp into making way more than it needs. Sebum in the right amount is really good for hair, beucase it's our own natural oil and can help fortify (is that the right word???) our hair strands. Too much though...bleh, I've been there too! If you don't want to switch washing methods, consider diluting your shampoo each wash. You don't have to have the lather they use on TV commercials to get clean hair.

General concensus on here seems to be that any sulfate-containing shampoo is too harsh for *most* hair. Next time you shop, try looking for one that doesn't have any "sulfate"-esque word in the the ingredient list. When it comes to conditioners, if you want to try using one again that is, try looking for those without silicones in the ingredient list; those silicones *might* be what weighs down your hair so much.

For moisture, you've got to try an SMT. Love, love love. May help with frizzies? Here's the recipe link:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128&highlight=dermatitis

Other helpful links:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=7804

lots of info, I know; I hope I was of some use to you.(Got to read the articles too; there's so much stashed in them!) Have fun, good luck, and keep us all posted!

[PinkyCat]

Grey mass????
It's BRAINS!!

(Sorry, seems like you'd find the humor in that, hopefully...) :cheese:

[cheddarbiscuit]

Okay, shopping list time:

Baking powder
10% apple cider vinegar
sulfate free shampoo (find type from that list I remember seeing...)
or soap-based shampoo bar (can you buy those in stores? I'd rather not order on line)
light weight conditioner (Vo5 or suave naturals?)
bottles for diluted conditioner.

*sigh* No, pinkycat, but I do not secrete brains, but that was a good joke, I appreciate it very much.

[Anje]

Shampoo bars are really more of an online thing. You might get lucky and find something like that in a natural foods store, but that's about it. And skip the Lush brand if you're trying sulfate-free; their shampoo bars are basically just dehydrated sulfate shampoo.

You're only going to be able to get regular apple cider vinegar, by the way. What I'm apparently not expressing very well is that you're going to want to dilute it in a big plastic cup. About 1 unit of vinegar plus 9 units of water, where "unit" is whatever you want to measure in. Quarter cups or deciliters or capfuls. It doesn't need to be precise.

Late edit (someone below already pointed this out): Baking soda = Bicarbonate of soda. I believe in the UK you're more likely to call it bicarb, while the US term is "baking soda".

[Madora]

The less you put on your hair, the less buildup you'll have to deal with!

Also, when shampooing and conditioning, be sure and rinse well (preferably with a final cold rinse if you can stand it).

Above all, brush DAILY with a pure boar bristle brush! Brushing not only distributes the natural sebum down your stands, it exercises your hair follicles, gets rid of dirt and lint trapped on your scalp and strands, and over time imparts a lovely shine and incredible softness to your locks.

The gentlest kind of brush to use is a pure boar bristle brush (no nylon!). Boar bristles come in different lengths and colors and thicknesses. Also, some are very stiff (which goes away with useage) and some are incredibly soft and only fit for babies).

It is HOW you use your boar bristle brush that will determine the ultimate beauty and condition of your hair. Brushing is not just putting brush to hair and having at it! There is a proper, gentle way to brush..and your hair will reap the rewards if you brush gently.

A boar bristle brush will wear like iron if you take care of it properly. Wash it every other day in a bit of shampoo mixed with 8 oz warm water. Rinse with cold water, shake out well, dry off all wooden parts, and place it BRISTLES SIDE DOWN on a lint free cloth.

bbbs can be found at Walgreens, Target, Walmart and at Sally Beauty Supply stores.

If possible, feel the brush first before purchasing it! Also, make sure it lies FLAT (no curvature!) and has a comfortable handle.

I've brushed my hair for over 40 years with a pure bbb...100 strokes in the morning, when I get up.

[Gulbahar]

Madora, don't get me wrong... I know you just love your boar bristle brush and would like to convert everybody to it.... ;) But, you know, many members here find the BBB too harsh on their hair. I certainly did and I so wanted it to work for me. The brush was literally shredding my fragile hair.
It definitely isn't for everybody. So may be giving advise about the BBB should come with a warning or something. :flower:

[Kristamommyx3]

I would like to humbly suggest the following...start out by clarifying your hair really well, like the previous posters suggested, and then try out the Organix (yes, with an x) brand at CVS or Walgreens. They carry the largest selection. I love all of them, but by current favorite is the Argan oil one. I have baby fine hair, so I know what you mean about wanting to skip conditioner to keep that fresh and fluffy look as opposed to the seaweed on a log look. Lol. I went years without conditioning before I found the LHC. Then, people in the know here, encouraged me to find a light conditioner, and try out oils. It sounded nutty to me at first to put oil in my hair, but, I have been delighted with all of the great advice I've been given! Oh, and the Organix is sulphate free, and I've been using then for almost three years with great results. Of course your hair is individual, but I found it to make my hair moisturized, without making it flat.

[HuggyBear]

Okay, shopping list time:

Baking powder
10% apple cider vinegar
sulfate free shampoo (find type from that list I remember seeing...)
or soap-based shampoo bar (can you buy those in stores? I'd rather not order on line)
light weight conditioner (Vo5 or suave naturals?)
bottles for diluted conditioner.

*sigh* No, pinkycat, but I do not secrete brains, but that was a good joke, I appreciate it very much.

Baking SODA, not baking powder. :)

[Darkhorse1]

I use head and shoulders and it's saved me from scratching my scalp bloody,but I have dandruff and get itchy with it. Not for flakes. Flakes can be a sign of a dry scalp too, and H& shoulders makes a dry scalp shampoo. I've been using restoring shine shampoo and it's been a godsend and is ph balanced. I was using the H&S for oily scalp, and it was causing it to dry out too much.

So, I would try different types of shampoos, including a clarifying. then, try out a bunch of options here--loads to enjoy---I found for my ends/length, olive oil really helped before a washing. Enjoy this site! It's got loads of suggestions!

[Madora]

@Gulbahar...

With all due respect, my praise for the boar bristle brush is derived from the advice of Dr. George Michael. He studied hair extensively, not only as a stylist but in a scientific manner as well, and he knew the properties of all kinds of hair.

He advocated the pure boar bristle brush as the gentlest brush to use on any hair type.

It is HOW you use the brush that determines the condition of the hair.

It is true that boar bristle brushes come in various thicknesses and types of stiffness. If the brush is too stiff and you use it too forecefully, then there are bound to be repercusions.

I think many would be brushers also don't understand that a brush is not a detangler! Also, how you hold the brush...i.e. the pressure of your hand, can also be a contributing factor in harmful hair brushing.

You don't need a death grip on the brush! Just hold it gently and press.

Of course if your hair is thick (and believe me, I had very, very thick, fine hair) then you must exert more pressure.

Also, you go slowly when brushing.

The only people who would have trouble with brushing..and have to take even greater pains, are the curly haired folks. They might have better results using a wide tooth comb.

But the majority of long hairs -- be they thick or thin haired, would benefit from using a boar bristle brush, provided they use it gently..and use a brush with the appropriate stiffness (or lack thereof) for their hair type.

If you find another type of brush works for you, then go for it. I can only add that the long hairs of yesteryear, those ladies of the mid to late 19th century, used boar bristle brushes on their very long hair..and many had incredible hair! Thank you for reading!

[Gulbahar]

But don't you think that if it's so difficult to use the BBB in the proper, non-damaging way it might not be advisable to recommend it as the first thing to someone who is struggling with his/her hair as it is? Someone whose hair is fragile and brittle and damaged?
And, with all due respect to GM, I read a few things about his philosophy that I found simply wrong and ridiculous. And even if he is the hair guru par excellence - we all know very well that not everything works with every hair type. I thought that was the one thing we learn her on the board. :rolleyes:

[Cania]

OP, I used to have the same issue, with the grey grease on my hairbrush.
I'm not sure about you, but if I left it on there, it would go solid and I could pull it off the bristles in chunks! After using a clarifying shampoo, I haven't noticed it since (and I've only used it once!)

ETA: I also had trouble with condition and frizzy hair. I started using a leave-in mask called "Hello Hydration" by Herbal Essences (it comes in a little blue pot) and that seems to have helped massively. I put it on wet hair, stick it up in a shower cap for 15 minutes then rinse with cold water. I'm hoping to start oiling treatments soon, so that might also be something to consider, but I'm sure everyone else on here could give you much better advice about that!

Also, as an alternative to head and shoulders, try T Gel. I had problems with dandruff a few years ago, and this was much kinder to my scalp.

[getoffmyskittle]

I've got a confession to make: I haven't been taking good care of my hair.

It falls between my waist and tailbone, I'm really not sure which. It's a lovely shade of red, very fine, but thick as all get out. I don't know if its because I'm weak, or my hair is just that thick, but I can't hold it up for too long or my arm will start to hurt. (Laugh. Please laugh. I'm serious, but laugh anyway.)

This is an awesome problem to have and you'll probably be glad of it once you get your hair in better shape. :)


Don't get me wrong, I love my hair and I want to keep it, but it could be better. It's frizzy, (I've already resolved to try the anti-frizz recipe here, just can't find it again!) and breaks easily. But, to speak in my defense, I don't have a lot of split ends, so I must be doing something right.

Some hairtypes (including mine) have frizz no matter what, but having large amounts of frizz and breakage usually means your hair is dry. Try using moisturizing conditioners and oils.


My scalp has this... problem. I want to say its dandruff, but I always assumed that was flakes, this is more like a disgusting, oily, grey... mass that collects on the bristles of my hairbrush. I don't know what to do about it, and it is kind of embarrassing to talk about, and I can't use a friends brush with out it getting covered in oily, grey, disgusting... mass.

I know, it's gross, I want it gone, too.

I've been using Head and Shoulders because that is what my parents get, but I can drive, so I could run out and get a different kind of shampoo. I stopped using conditioner a while ago, because I did not like how heavy it made my hair feel, I prefer soft and fluffy, not heavy and shiny.

Sounds like seborrheic dermatitis (I have that too). Does it itch? I'd actually advise you to stick to the Head and Shoulders, just don't shampoo your length with it, make sure it's only on your scalp. Coconut oil helps with this because of the lauric acid content, and so do apple cider vinegar rinses.

In my experience, trying to use low sulfate or no sulfate shampoos exacerbates the problem (and causes me to itch and shed like mad). But everybody's hair is different.

Oh, and if it actually is SD, keeping everything very clean is absolutely essential. SD is basically a fungal infection (gross, right?), so make sure you wash your combs and brushes *at least* whenever you wash your hair, if not more. You don't want to get your scalp nice and clean and then immediately reintroduce the fungus...


Like I said, my hair's a pretty color, but it's really low quality.

So now I've stumbled across this place. Lots of members here probably know what they are doing. I've already got the length, I just need the quality.

So, please help? I'll take recipes, product recommendations, anything you can give.

Don't worry, we'll fix you right up. :p

[getoffmyskittle]

But don't you think that if it's so difficult to use the BBB in the proper, non-damaging way it might not be advisable to recommend it as the first thing to someone who is struggling with his/her hair as it is? Someone whose hair is fragile and brittle and damaged?
And, with all due respect to GM, I read a few things about his philosophy that I found simply wrong and ridiculous. And even if he is the hair guru par excellence - we all know very well that not everything works with every hair type. I thought that was the one thing we learn her on the board. :rolleyes:

Here is what I found. When my hair was already damaged from bad practices, I couldn't use a BBB. It caused horrendous static and splits (probably would have been "shredding" if my hair were fine).

Now that my hair is pretty much healthy, BBBing is great. I actually use a mixed nylon and boar bristle brush and I love it, it makes my scalp feel so good and I think it reduces shedding.

[IndigoAsh]

I have the same issue actually. I get this waxy grey build up on the bristles and even on the sides of the brush I can clean off with my finger nail. It's pretty disturbing, but not awful. I found the whole 'less is more' to help quite a bit. Even not using any products that cause build up(no hairspray, hair waxes, gels ect')I still get it after awhile. I'd definitely agree with not conditioning your hair above the tops of your ears though!If you can possibly find it, I am so inlove with it, the brand is called Skala. They make an amazing... I mean AMAZING conditioner that runs very inexpensive! I use the Shea butter deep conditioning mask. I find that rotating your hair products helps. Like I'll use a regular shampoo and conditioner(Nexus organic shampoo and Herbalescence conditioner)and than I'll trade off with baking soda and ACV or just not wash my hair for a few extra days and just coconut oil the crap out of it and wear it in french braid/s(masks the oily look so it just looks shiny and pretty and makes gorgeous braids). I found oiling with coconut or almond oil really has kept the grey waxy build up at bay. I hope you find something that works, and we get the chance to see your beautiful locks in the near future!
Wanted to add I also use a BBB and I love it. It's my before a shower brush. Never had an issue with it(I have thick almost coarse hair). You can find the soap bars at Target along with the boar bristle brushes. I have two from them, one's my detangler and the other is just BBB with no rubber/plastic tines in it. Got them both for under $20 and work great.

[Gulbahar]

Here is what I found. When my hair was already damaged from bad practices, I couldn't use a BBB. It caused horrendous static and splits (probably would have been "shredding" if my hair were fine).

Now that my hair is pretty much healthy, BBBing is great. I actually use a mixed nylon and boar bristle brush and I love it, it makes my scalp feel so good and I think it reduces shedding.
Good for you!
My hair is healthy but it breaks easily, so I have to avoid absolutely everything that could do even the slightes damage.

To the OP:
Have you seen a doctor for your scalp issues? Many have recommended to not using Head&Shoulders anymore but there also was the suggestion of seborrhoic dermatitis. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to check this out before you decide. I hope you'll find something you can be happy with!

[Madora]

But don't you think that if it's so difficult to use the BBB in the proper, non-damaging way it might not be advisable to recommend it as the first thing to someone who is struggling with his/her hair as it is? Someone whose hair is fragile and brittle and damaged?
And, with all due respect to GM, I read a few things about his philosophy that I found simply wrong and ridiculous. And even if he is the hair guru par excellence - we all know very well that not everything works with every hair type. I thought that was the one thing we learn her on the board. :rolleyes:

I must confess I am mystified why anyone would find a boar bristle brush difficult to use. Of course, if they never knew how to use one, that I could understand!

As for using a bbb on damaged, brittle hair, if you use it sparingly, and gently, then I think it would be beneficial. The thing is, it is not only the hair that needs to be considered when growing out. The hair follicles need exercising too and a pure bbb does that well. The original poster could also try gentle massages to the follicles to see if that would help.

As for Mr. Michael's theories..I know many here don't hold with some of them...but you must remember Mr. Michael thought and wrote in another era. He believed wholeheartedly in what he had personally experienced in his studies and in his salon (he started in the mid 1950s). Some of his views are thought of as "sexist" in this day and age. But he didn't base his theories on conjecture. He researched his theories and had data to back it up. His theories might not work for everyone because perhaps not everyone wants to put so much effort into their hair care. But for those who do, then his principles work. Which is not to say that you cannot have beautiful hair by any other method! I'm sure that many of the clients in his salons cherry picked which principles they used and perhaps tailored others for their personal use. All I know is that when I visited the salon those 4 times, the evidence of his success was visible on all 4 walls, 8 x 10 color photos of glorious, gorgeous long hair, of his clients past and present. Stunning, shining hair, ranging from bra length to floor length..all GM clients from around the world and the US. It was quite a sight!!

[pepperminttea]

Welcome to the LHC cheddarbiscuit! I hope you like reading. :p

Styles: You might want to check out Janis Cortese's styles page (http://www.prismnet.com/%7Ecortese/hair/styling.html), she can't hold her arms above her heart for too long so hers are all quite quick to do.

Frizz: Some people have frizz, period - I warn you now if you're one of those people then you may have to learn to like a bit of 'wildness'. :silly: However, some people have frizz when they're treating hair that's naturally wavy/curly as if it's straight - brushing it, etc. Could you be unknowingly hiding some waves/curls? :) Try doing a normal wash, and then leaving your hair to air-dry on it's own and without touching it at all - no brushing, no combing, no fingers, nada. Then take a photo (if you post it here I'm sure people will be happy to help you with your hairtype). You might surprise yourself. :D
In general, whatever your hairtype turns out to be, extreme frizz is often due to a lack of moisture; try some conditioner, and going easy with the sulphate shampoo. Sulphates like Sodium Laureth Sulphate and Sodium Lauryl Sulphate are strong detergents used in shampoos, toothpaste, hand/body soap, even dishwashing soap - they're not evil, but they are quite harsh, especially when used too often. How often do you wash your hair? If you prefer to wash your hair more frequently (ie. everyday), conditioner only (CO) might work well for you - conditioner has mild surfactants which given a bit more time, and a bit more massaging, can get your hair perfectly clean without stripping your hair and scalp as much as shampoo. :) There's a giant thread on that washing method here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2898).
Here's the thing with sulphates though - most conditioners and some shampoos contain silicones. You'll be able to spot them in the ingredients list - they end in -xane, -conol, and -cone. (It should be noted, Methylchloroisothiazolinone and Methylisothiazolinone are commonly mistaken as silicones but they're actually preservatives.) Round here, people often abbreviate silicones to 'cones. 'Cones coat the hairshaft and seal moisture in/out. They can help with detangling a great deal, but can also cause dryness for some people. The reason I mention them is because most silicones are only remove-able with a sulphate shampoo. Occasionally you'll find a 'cone that's water-soluble - it'll be pre-fixed with 'PEG' - but the majority need sulphates to remove them. Without those, silicones can build up quickly causing dryness and making your ends feel crunchy and rough as if they're desperate for a trim. 'Cones are a bit of a love them or hate them kind of issue - but if you decide to use them, you'll need to clarify with a 'cone-free sulphate shampoo every so often to avoid build-up. And if you decide to try conditioner only (CO), it's easier to use 'cone-free conditioners seeing as you wouldn't be using a sulphate shampoo to get rid of the 'cones every wash. (Cheapie 'cone-free conditioners like Suave and V05 if you're in the US work well.) I know that's a lot of info to take in, but I hope it makes sense.
For the defrizz recipe, could you have been thinking of Kimberlily's defrizz spray (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277)?

Build-up: I got grey, wet and waxy build-up like that for a while. For me it was fixed by clarifying, so I'd give that a try first. A 'cone-free sulphate shampoo should do the job. Follow it with a deep moisture treatment like an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128), and that should offset the dryness. :) I'd also further the recommendations for an apple cider vinegar (ACV) rinse - I use it at the end of my wash, after washing and conditioning. It restores the acid mantle of the scalp and if you're in a hard water area, it should help with the hard water residue too. For a starter recipe, I'd go with 1 tablespoon in 8oz. of water, you can always experiment with the ratio later to see what your hair/scalp likes. At weak dilutions, the smell always dissipates completely as the hair dries, no-one will know. :) Putting the rinse in old shampoo/conditioner bottle works well, or just in a jug tipped over your head. Just be sure not to get any in your eyes - it stings! If that doesn't fix it, it might well be a medical issue; see your doctor or a skin/dermatology specialist. Whatever it is, you can bet they'll have seen worse. ;)

You might also find this article (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=39) helpful for newbie advice. I'd also recommend giving this one (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79) a read to understand damage, and this last one (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=8) is good for raising your awareness of how/where damage is happening. :)

Last but not least - I really would not recommend a boar bristle brush (BBB) for someone just starting off. (Sorry Madora.) They can work well for some people but terribly for others, even when all the advice is followed, and frankly some of George Michael's ideas about haircare are dubious at best.
cheddarbiscuit: I'd focus on getting your basic routine working for you first and foremost. :)

[Alvrodul]

First, welcome to LCH, Cheddarbiscuit! :flower: I hope you will be able to staighten out your hair woes!
First, start simply. It is very easy to get overloaded on information when you first get here. There is much hair wisdom among the members, but figuring out what is going to work for your hair can be difficult when you feel you are drowning in information.
I will share the basics of my own haircare routine - if you find that some of it works for you, then I couldn't be happier!
To begin with, I have straight, fine hair, that is between hip and tailbone - so it is finer than yours, I think, but not as thick. And are you a wavy or a curly? If you are, some of what works for me may not work as well for you.
To begin: When washing, I detangle before washing, and I use soap bars, but my hair is quite happy with a sulfate-free shampoo as well. I always, always, always use conditioner - a cone-free one - on the length of my hair, from about the ears on down. Putting conditioner on my scalp gives me itchies, so this is to be avoided. I also finish the wash with a diluted vinegar rinse.
NOTE: (added on edit) I don't wash my hair daily - I only do so twice a week, I suppose I might be able to stretch it to once a week if I put effort into it.
I like to put a bit of oil on my hair when it is still damp - I would suggest jojoba oil or coconut oil if you would like to try this. Just a drop or two - spread it over your hands, and then smooth over your length. Repeat if necessary. I also like to use coconut oil as a pre-wash treatment.
I air dry, and detangle when completely dry with a seamless comb. (Curlies will often find that detangling in the shower, with hair completely saturated with conditioner works better for them, though.)

Combs and brushes need to be cleaned frequently, and after washing them make sure they are completely dry before using them again. Use shampoo to wash them and rinse well. Also, if you can't find any seamless combs where you live, get a couple of wide-tooth combs and file down the seams between the teeth with a bit of fine-grit sandpaper or a nail file. I prefer to use combs, and have a whole pile of combs in different materials. I have a couple of BBBs as well, but don't use them much - if I use it at all, I prefer the softest one, but I don't use it for detangling.

I find that I need to clarify occasionally - I have a couple of shampoos with SLS on hand for this. Fortunately, my hair doesn't really object to sulfates or cones, I just prefer not using them.
And to find out if your conditioner contains cones, look at the ingredients list - anything ending in -cone or -xane means it has cones.
Hope this helps a bit.:)

[cheddarbiscuit]

Baking SODA, not baking powder. :)
*facepalm*
Thank you.

[cheddarbiscuit]

Thanks guys! I'll be going shopping tomorrow, so I try to get as much as I can!

A lot of you have asked if my hair is wavy or curly, so I'll go into some detail:

My hair is slightly wavy, but really, its more strait than anything. I would like to have curls, but it stubbornly refuses.

And its a huge drama queen! Even if I have not washed it for three or four days (that is all I can stand) it will coyly slip out of any knot, bun, clip, or twist I put it in. The only things that really work for me are a braids and ponytails... and those are boring. My hair is like Houdini or something crazy like that. A sailor could knot my hair and in about one hour it would fall. You think I'm joking?

Well, yes, I'm exaggerating. I don't actually meet many sailors this far from shore... but still...

[Alvrodul]

Houdinihair, meet houdinihair! :p
My hair can also be very slippery - can slip right out of my buns if I am not sufficiantly particular about the method I am using to keep it up. Especially when it is newly washed! Day 2/3 hair is much better behaved.
So braided buns work best for updos when I have just washed. Also, a bit of Aloe Vera can improve matters!:D

[cheddarbiscuit]

Hello houdinihair.

Please stop escaping things.

[Dina L.]

Cheddarbiscuit, I'm very curious on your results, I hope you will let us know about your progress! :magic:

[Anje]

See, I like the houdinihair state. The trick then is just to wedge the hair into a bun or braid that it can't escape from. Hairsticks are good for this, once you get the hang of them. No matter how slippery my hair is, it's not capable of escaping a hairstick-held celtic knot bun!

[cheddarbiscuit]

Trust me. My hair? It will find a way.

[whitestiletto]

I'm so happy you're trying ACV. You could try in the beginning a more concentrated soak on your head, before showering, then rinse it off in the shower. That really cut my scalp flakes down. It does sound more like natural sebum than pathogenesis, I think your scalp might be freaking out from H&S without conditioner.

My favorite cheap shampoo and lightweight conditioner is Trader Joes, though everyone has their opinions.


Okay, shopping list time:

Baking powder
10% apple cider vinegar
sulfate free shampoo (find type from that list I remember seeing...)
or soap-based shampoo bar (can you buy those in stores? I'd rather not order on line)
light weight conditioner (Vo5 or suave naturals?)
bottles for diluted conditioner.

*sigh* No, pinkycat, but I do not secrete brains, but that was a good joke, I appreciate it very much.

[whitestiletto]

Also -- if you think your hair is wavy but it just won't curl, you might see magical difference if you decrease shampoo and increase conditioning. You can get a wealth of information on teasing your waves into full happiness on this thread (http://www.longhaircommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31563&page=134).

I thought my hair was straight until I decreased shampoo to two or three times a month. You probably want to solve your scalp issue first though. Daily Boar Bristle Brush massage?

[cheddarbiscuit]

Okay, just got back from shopping. I couldn't remember everything I was supposed to get, so I just got what I could remember.

I could only find %5 (i'm pretty sure someone said %10) ACV, so I just bought that, and I haven't diluted it yet.
But I bought suave naturals daily clarifying shampoo and conditioner.
No special brushes yet, sorry, I'm taking this a step at a time.

So, let me get this strait:

I just put strait baking soda on my scalp after I've gotten it wet, massage it in, then rinse it out?

Then I shampoo/condition as normal.

Then, after everything is completely washed out, I put the ACV rinse in. Do I do that in the shower or out of the shower?

[jojo]

Madora, don't get me wrong... I know you just love your boar bristle brush and would like to convert everybody to it.... ;) But, you know, many members here find the BBB too harsh on their hair. I certainly did and I so wanted it to work for me. The brush was literally shredding my fragile hair.
It definitely isn't for everybody. So may be giving advise about the BBB should come with a warning or something. :flower:

A BBB is the most gentlest method of brushing hair if done correctly, not at all damaging. Its the notion of hair on hair which makes it less damaging than other brushes.

We all have choices and I don't Madora is trying to convert anybody, she is mealy trying to educate people by using her experiences. The proofs in the pudding however, but her hair is in lovely condition. But as I stated earlier we all have choices and if you dont like them and dont want to use them thats ok.

[Arya]

Madora, just to say, I used to follow Dr. Michael's methods exclusively as a teenager when I had hip length hair, and I really found they didn't work for me. I had all one length hair, and used all his methods.
I had a BB brush ( I tried several, actually), and it shredded my hair. I brushed very carefully and slowly after detangling, and I found it had three effects.
1. It scratched my scalp and loosened dandruff or something I've never had a problem with before or since. BBBs cause dandruff in my hair like you wouldn't believe.
2. It shredded my ends. and made it pouf like crazy.
3. It made it greasy at the roots. Very greasy. Noticeably greasier. Not shiny, just limp and gross.

They're really great methods, but they don't work for everyone! I've been much, much happier since I cut in bangs and layers, use a tangle teezer, and avoid BBBs like the plague.

[georgia_peach]

Okay, just got back from shopping. I couldn't remember everything I was supposed to get, so I just got what I could remember.

I could only find %5 (i'm pretty sure someone said %10) ACV, so I just bought that, and I haven't diluted it yet.
But I bought suave naturals daily clarifying shampoo and conditioner.
No special brushes yet, sorry, I'm taking this a step at a time.

So, let me get this strait:

I just put strait baking soda on my scalp after I've gotten it wet, massage it in, then rinse it out?

Then I shampoo/condition as normal.

Then, after everything is completely washed out, I put the ACV rinse in. Do I do that in the shower or out of the shower? I don't think anyone has answered these questions yet. I think you need to disolve the baking soda in some warm water first so you don't risk roughing up your hair with the baking soda powder.
My recommendations:
1) rinse hair thoroughly and then pour on DILUTED/Dissolved baking soda and massage. Rinse.
2)dilute shampoo with water and then shampoo your scalp gently, avoiding the length and rinse thoroughly
3)condition the length and rinse that out
4)dilute ACV with water: maybe 1 part ACV with 7 or 8 parts water then pour through hair
I do all steps in the shower.
Anyone else have some suggestions?
But please don't pour baking soda powder on your head or in your hair without first dissolving it in water. I'm afraid it will really make your hair more frizzy. Good luck!:)

[cheddarbiscuit]

I don't think anyone has answered these questions yet. I think you need to disolve the baking soda in some warm water first so you don't risk roughing up your hair with the baking soda powder.
My recommendations:
1) rinse hair thoroughly and then pour on DILUTED/Dissolved baking soda and massage. Rinse.
2)dilute shampoo with water and then shampoo your scalp gently, avoiding the length and rinse thoroughly
3)condition the length and rinse that out
4)dilute ACV with water: maybe 1 part ACV with 7 or 8 parts water then pour through hair
I do all steps in the shower.
Anyone else have some suggestions?
But please don't pour baking soda powder on your head or in your hair without first dissolving it in water. I'm afraid it will really make your hair more frizzy. Good luck!:)

Thank you!

[SpeakingEZ]

I could only find %5 (i'm pretty sure someone said %10) ACV, so I just bought that, and I haven't diluted it yet.


Hi, Cheddarbiscuit! Welcome to LHC!

ETA: Just a misunderstanding!

[Athena's Owl]

that gray stuff on your scalp and brushes is probably sebum clinging to shed skin on your scalp. It might be something more serious, but assume it isn't.

Assume that you really really need to seriously clean your scalp. so along with your products, also add a good scalp massage while you're using whatever it is you're using to clean your hair. really make sure you're getting whatever cleaning solution you're using on your scalp. I find that diluted products are easier to actually get down on your scalp. so craefully pour your baking soda and water one your scalp, then cover it with your cleanser (personally, I would use conditioner, but this might be a little weird to you at first) and then get your head under the shower spray for a second, or use your cleansig solution diluted.

now start at the nape of your neck, and use the pads of your fingers mostly, and zig zag massage from there to the point where your skull sticks out the most. count to 20 while you do this.

now move to just behind your ears and do the same thing from the point where your skull sticks out the most to the crown of your head. count to 20 again whhile you do it.

now at each temple to the top edge of your head, but not the top of your head yet! Count 20.

now the crown of your head, but not the front. count 20.

okay now the very tippy top of your head to the front hairline. count 20.

yeah, that's about a minute and a half of rubbing your head. it's a long time. it needs to be a long time! okay, now rinse your head. rinse every last bit of cleaning solution out of your head, and give it a feel. you're probably going to feel like your scalp and hair is still "gummy." that's okay.

But for this, indulge me, okay? even if it seems weird. If you used baking soda and a sulfate free shampoo, this time, use your thin conditioner, the suave or the VO5 or the white rain or whatever cheapie conditioner you bought. get it on your scalp, in defiance of all the wisdom. let it sit there for a few minutes. then go through that whole scalp massage thing again, and then rinse it out really well.

I've actually found that conditioner is way, way better than shampoo for lifting up oil, be it sebum or coconut. i know it sounds crazy, but i swear it's true.

probably now your hair and scalp are quite clean. go on to your thicker, detangling conditioner/SMT treatment. comb the tangles out of your hair after letting the conditioner sit on your head for a bit. Rinse again, really well.

ten do your ACV rinse as the last step, let your hair airdry (NO TOUCHING!) and see what it's like after that.

[torrilin]

Hi, Cheddarbiscuit! Welcome to LHC!

5% is actually more diluted than 10%, so don't dilute it any more. We usually get pure 100% ACV and then dilute it to our liking ourselves. I actually didn't even know that you could buy ACV pre-diluted. Who knew?

No, you don't. No one buys 100% pure vinegar, because that would be a solid, and it looks a bit like table salt, only a lot more dangerous. And getting it to be 100% pure would cost the earth. Most chemical supply catalogues would have 98% purity or something like that.

Like pretty much everyone else, you buy a 5% solution and dilute it.

[KLin]

Welcome to LHC.

Hope by now you have tried the scalp massage, and feel more relaxed with tired arms. Better yet find someone to give you a scalp massage :eyebrows:.

BTW, BBB did not work for me either. I tried and tried, and ended up mostly finger combing while wet and using a Tangel teezer in the shower with SLS-cone free conditioner.

It took me a few months of trial and error to find what works for my hair. I would pick a problem area, look up ideas and try them. If it was obvious that it did not work, move on. If I was not sure or I liked it then keep going for a few weeks to work it into a routine.

I did burn my scalp 6 months ago and found a Neem Oil oscalp treatment conditioner that felt wonderful and helped my scalp heal and feel clean and more balanced.

I also did not have good luck with the baking soda, but it cleaned my scalp and after that and a clarify wash I did not use it again.

I mostly use conditioner only. I love apple Cider Vinegar rinse, I mix mine with 2 parts ACV 2 parts Rose Water and 6 parts warm water and use it as a final rinse.

Good luck finding your own routine and being rewarded with beautiful, healthy hair.

[cheddarbiscuit]

Okay, well, you said keep you posted, so that's what I'm going to do

Day one:

One word summary: Ouch.

Due to strange, permanent... 'rash-like condition' which I did not tell you about previously because I did not want to seem like I was just here to whine, I did not use the baking soda for fear that it would irritate condition.

Shampoo/conditioned as normal.

Used extremely diluted ACV, which had gotten cold because I prepared it 2 hrs. prior to shower (some one said 8 parts water to 1 part ACV, I used, like, twelve parts water to one part ACV because I knew it would hurt the skin on my hands)... aaaaaaaand my hands suddenly started burning... Because lo and behold, vinegar is an acid and we all know those are not friendly, even when extremely diluted. I should have seen that coming a mile away, because we all need to learn that when you try to fix a problem you run into another problem. Really, I asked for it.

I'm not going to do an ACV wash again any time soon, but that's probably for the best.

I'll tell you how my hair feels in the morning. It's air-drying right now.

G'night!

[LoversLullaby]

That's so strange that the diluted ACV stung your hands! Do you have very sensitive skin? That could maybe be why. Otherwise I have no idea. It should be so weak it doesn't burn at all.

Anyway, we'd all love to know of the results of your hair wash! Please keep us posted! :)

[teal]

Wait, did you touch the ACV after the Head and Shoulders? Head and Shoulders does a number on my skin and my skin is on the sensitive side.

My ACV rinse is 1tbsp per 1cup water. I put it on the scalp but some people put it only on the lengths and that might work better for you, at least while you're sorting out your scalp situation. I rinse thoroughly with water then let the hair air-dry.

If you have a rash, please see the doctor. You should understand exactly what it is you're dealing with (infection, skin condition, overly sensitive skin, chemical burn, etc) before trying to fix it and, by relation, your hair problems. If your skin is on high alert, things that would normally help your hair might not be possible until that situation is on the road to resolution.

[Gulbahar]

A BBB is the most gentlest method of brushing hair if done correctly, not at all damaging. Its the notion of hair on hair which makes it less damaging than other brushes.
*sigh*
No, it's not. (Gotta love when someone's saying this or that MUST work for you - you're just doing it wrong. :rolleyes:) My hair prefers not to be brushed very much at all. Even after detangling very well the BBB pulls on my hair just because the bristles are so dense and catch every single hair. And as my hair is very fragile it will break.
I really wanted to make it work for me but I did pay the price. My scalp loved it and I still miss the kind of massage only a BBB can give you. But I'm much better of with finger combing, a wide-toothed comb and sometimes, SOMETIMES using the Tangle Teezer very gently. For distributing oil after oiling my hair as a deep treatment I got myself a very soft brush with pig bristles. Much better!

@cheddarbiscuit
Sorry for hijacking your thread so badly. :flower:
It's best, if you ask for help, really to give us the whole picture. Not mentioning a skin condition can lead to outright dangerous advise.
Regarding the ACV and how it hurt your hands - do you have cracked skin there? Anything slightly acidic will sting then. And how did your scalp react to the ACV rinse?

[tiny_teesha]

I have eczema on my hands so i feel your pain. Let me offer some suggestions.

Start here:
Guide (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=65)

I'll address all your problems one by one. Sorry if this is long, everyone here knows i like to babble on.

Here we go!:

Is the colour natural or have you dyed your hair? If you have dyed it, you should already know this is extremely damaging.
explanation- This is because the dyeing process uses a chemical like ammonia to lift the scales in the hair, and peroxide to lighten it so the deposited dyes show more- and then when you wash it not all the scales lie down flat again and stay open- this makes the hair porous which means it looses moisture and feel like hay- depending on how resilient your hair is. Fine hairs get the worst. Thats why they offer you a special conditioner to use afterward. This is heavily made of surfactants like silicones, what these do is coat your hair, effectively plugging in the holes making it feel and look smooth. Which is all cool, except this also suffocates the hair so it does not gain moisture either and makes hair dry- though for some this method of hair care does work, for a lot it does not. It's just masking damage.

frizz- a lot of people naturally have frizz. It's normal to a degree depending on your hair type. But going from what you say i'd put it down to dryness. You do not use conditioner- i don't think that's being a good help with this issue. You hair is screaming to you " I AM DRY! MOISTURISE ME!" and perhaps you should consider applying some conditioner. If you really don't want to I suggest adding some coconut oil to shampoo (try getting some from an indian store it tends to be cheaper but the virgin cold pressed stuff from the health food store is best and smells best imo). Mix about half a teaspoon of it with your shampoo- edit it to suit your liking. This will be a far less harsh way to shampoo- don't worry, it still lathers- Trust me. Plus, when they make shampoo bars they often use coconut oil because i believe from memory it was the best at lathering (that is the bubbles).
Once hair is air dried you can even add a few drops more to your ends, tutorial below.
coconut oil shampoo (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=191)

Oiling tutorial (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=71)

Dandruff- it's your scalp shedding skin cells, it's normal. If you want to remove it i'd try the bicarb soda scrub- but since this irritates your hands i have a better solution. Try a clarifying shampoo to clarify instead, that won't burn. And for exfoliation try using some brown sugar with conditioner- or in your case shampoo, and spend a good few minutes until your arms hurt massaging it onto your scalp only. Have a break, and continue once your arms aren't sore. Then rinse. Your scalp, i guarantee, will have no cells left. You can do this every so often. Wash all your brushes so you don't transfer the scalp gunk.
scalp massage (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=172)

I also suggest if you want the red colour, without harmful chemicals, to use henna. Again, some brands from the Indian/Spice shop are cheap. But be careful a lot of brands can contain a chemical that could make you bald if you get a reaction (worst case scenario). So make sure to use a brand like Jamila, or something. Check the henna article below, i'm rusty on henna. Henna basically does what the silicones do, but in a much healthier way. It inbeds itself into the keratin fortifying the hair. All those shampoos that claim to strengthen hair- really do not, imo. Henna is the only thing that does.
Henna (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=7)

In Australia there is a conditioner at Aldi which only costs $2 and there is no silicones in it. This is a LIGHT conditioner which i feel would be perfect for you since it won't weigh your hair down but it will leave it less snappy. Where do you want the volume most? At the roots? Perhaps you could only condition the ends where it gets frizzy and dry. We also have a cheap organic brand here, that only contains 2 chemicals and everything else is derived from plants, its less than $2. I use that. I don't know if you can find cheap alternatives where you live. If you want to try, hop into an indian/spice/interntaional store and see if they have a herbal shampoo. It should look like ground up tea, it comes in a box. You literally soak the powdered herbs as you would a tea….strain, and use it like a shampoo. It scarily works.
indian herbs (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=3)
western herbs (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=134)

Also, do NOT towel dry it. That roughens the hair causing frizz. Step out of the shower. Gently squeeze it (don't WRING it) and rap it with a towel GENTLY, or make a turban without flipping your hair forward first, that is mean to it. Hair is delicate when wet. Then let it air dry. The slow evaporation of the hair is almost like a deep conditioning treatment. What has more moisture than water? Nothing. Except humuctants. Like honey (go ahead, put honey in your hair but nuke it in the microwave for 10 seconds first to deactivate natural peroxide- im serious, honey is a great conditioner- dilute it first with water or else good luck to you!). Water is a great conditioner that doesn't weigh your hair down! Try it! My hair feels most, luxurious- and that's the best word to describe...like...liquid silk....when my hair is left damp for 3-4 hours air drying under a cap in a warm room without drafts, you don't want a head cold. Out is ok too but it might dry faster- not a crime.

Snapping hair might mean you have too much protein in your hair also. So make sure the shampoo and conditioner do not mention protein. This will make it worse i fear.

Here is one more helpful article to read:
Healthy hair on the cheap (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=218)

Wait until your parents go shopping and go along and pick out some products as others have mentioned but i have a new list for you that won't be too expensive:

Shopping List:
Cheap coconut oil, if you really can't get this try olive oil but i don't think it would work nearly half as good.
A seamless comb, or a good brush that is seamless…some detangling device. Fingers work for some!
No snag hair ties….fabric…velvet…silk…satin- scrunchies!!
Honey
Clarifying shampoo (check the back that no ingredient ends in "cone")
Cheap conditioner- They are usually light so they wont weigh it down. Organic is better.
herbs - if you're going to go down that road
henna if you want copper/red hair

Tips:
Tie hair up more- keeping it contained helps its quality
Be gentle to wet hair and air dry, but especially wet hair, treat it like antique lace
Oil your ends
Air Dry
Coconut oil shampoo
Start conditioning your hair using conditioner or honey or herbs.
Exfoliate your scalp.

[cheddarbiscuit]

Okay, Ladies, please, I'm thrilled you want to help, but please, please, please, STOP debating the quality of boar bristle brushes. I may not be a moderator but I can at least ask you that. I have used them before, and I have no interest in using them again, so let's just drop the matter, yes?

Also asking, 'I have sensitive skin' is a horrible, horrible understatement. So far I have observed reactions to: Red peppers, apples, tomatoes, the entire spectrum of onions, oranges, lotions, any and all medicated creams, and latex. If I have prolonged exposure to something, even something that got no reaction (I did not always have this condition) I will develop an allergy to it, even the soap I use daily. However, these reactions are completely contained to my hands and lips (like, if I eat and apple, my thoat won't swell up like most people that are allergic to apples, I'll just get itchy, puffy lips, and if the juices touch my hand, it will also itch.)

This means, just because my hands can't handle it, doesn't mean the rest of my body can't. My scalp is fine. My scalp feels GREAT, actually. I brushed my hair this morning and a lot less sebum came off. The rinse really worked, it just did a number on my hands which are perpetually covered with a blistering rash because fate dislikes me.

Yes, I have been to the doctor for the condition, she asked what aggrivated it and I told her the list above. She gave me a steroid cream... which I put on and promptly made the outbreak worse. So, no, I'm not going back. Recently, I've started putting a lotion on and night and slapping on liquid benedryl immediately afterwards. The skin is still cracked, but it does not itch as much, and I think when I get the change I'll just by strait liquid or gel aloe and switch to that. I might just make it worse, though.

This might be all in my head and I might just need to see a hypno-therapist, but I don't have that kind of money.

Anyway, I got up and brushed my hair this morning and there was less sebum, like I said above. It was light weight and silky, but still frizzy (but I expect that's going to be a gradual change.) and tangled easily (like it always does, but I don't think there is much to do about that, I don't mind it.) Over all I'd say the temporary pain in my hands was worth it, (because I'm used to having an adverse reaction to every single thing. It's more annoying at this point that painful.)

I think I'll try oiling it at some point.

*long post is long*

[RitaCeleste]

Go to a beauty supply place pick up a pack of gloves. I'm allergic to latex too but the gloves don't stay on long enough to aggravate my hands. I have a similar allergy problem to all things citric acid and the tomatoes. Recently I had a problem with plums as well. I don't think its in your head. I do find if I've eaten something taboo, drinking milk helps. Also if you get the acid on your skin, you try the milk on it too. Don't know why but it seems to help the burning. It really shouldn't help, the science says that's crazy, and yet it seems to neutralize whatever I've gotten into somewhat.

[cheddarbiscuit]

Go to a beauty supply place pick up a pack of gloves. I'm allergic to latex too but the gloves don't stay on long enough to aggravate my hands. I have a similar allergy problem to all things citric acid and the tomatoes. Recently I had a problem with plums as well. I don't think its in your head. I do find if I've eaten something taboo, drinking milk helps. Also if you get the acid on your skin, you try the milk on it too. Don't know why but it seems to help the burning. It really shouldn't help, the science says that's crazy, and yet it seems to neutralize whatever I've gotten into somewhat.

Well, science is just thinking waaaaaaay to much into it, milk is a base (towards the middle of the Ph scale, I think) so that makes perfect sense. It's a better choice for combating acid than, say, soap, which will start and acid-base reaction on your skin. Not a good choice.

Milk. It's not just for drinking any more.

[Arya]

Honestly? I would cut the experiments for now. You sound like you've had it. A lot of these methods require a lot of in depth knowledge, using head and shoulders and then AVG isn't a good idea for chemical reasons, but there was no way for you to know this. You're getting a lot of conflicting advice, because different things work for different people, and everyone wants to find your best method right away. Why not start with small changes?

Get some gloves, get some cone- free sulfate free conditioner, and I'd consider going CO for now (conditioner only). Bleach is damaging to the hair and CO is a very gentle method on hands and hair and scalp, and you don't have to worry about weird chemical reactions for now. I'd try to solve one problem at a time, instead of everything at once.

Whatever you do, please don't go back to using just head and shoulders shampoo, especially if you have sensitive skin.

I would also go back and see a BETTER doctor and get an appointment with a dermatologist and an allergist if you can afford it/it's covered by your health plan.

Just hang around here, there's lots of good information, and lots of different methods. You're not going to find your favourite one immediately, that can take years of SLOW experimenting.

[RitaCeleste]

My kids have this allergy to acids too. Its all over though. No Betadine or Iodine and notifying the school to rinse them with milk or give it to them drink if they get into something every year. My hands and lips are the first thing to have problems but elsewhere can too. One of my daughters had Betadine applied to a scrape at school, disaster. Oddly peroxide on a scrape is fine. We inherited this allergy from my mother. My paternal grandfather was a doctor, and I told him I was allergic to Vitamin C and he claimed it was impossible. I can eat cabbage and take the rose hip kind? Orange juice no, a little Tang maybe. lol Good to know your hair and scalp are okay.

[cheddarbiscuit]

Honestly? I would cut the experiments for now. You sound like you've had it. A lot of these methods require a lot of in depth knowledge, using head and shoulders and then AVG isn't a good idea for chemical reasons, but there was no way for you to know this. You're getting a lot of conflicting advice, because different things work for different people, and everyone wants to find your best method right away. Why not start with small changes?

Get some gloves, get some cone- free sulfate free conditioner, and I'd consider going CO for now (conditioner only). Bleach is damaging to the hair and CO is a very gentle method on hands and hair and scalp, and you don't have to worry about weird chemical reactions for now. I'd try to solve one problem at a time, instead of everything at once.

Whatever you do, please don't go back to using just head and shoulders shampoo, especially if you have sensitive skin.

I would also go back and see a BETTER doctor and get an appointment with a dermatologist and an allergist if you can afford it/it's covered by your health plan.

Just hang around here, there's lots of good information, and lots of different methods. You're not going to find your favourite one immediately, that can take years of SLOW experimenting.



I didn't use head and shoulders.

I switched brands, and there was no chemical reaction between the shampoo and the ACV, there was just the ACV on the broken skin of my palms. Everything else went smoothly. I'm fine, really.

I'm going to use the new brand and stop ACV rinsing.

[Anje]

You know, if you're allergic to apples, you might want to re-think using apple cider vinegar. (The real question, I suppose, is whether you're allergic to apple juice or cider. My husband's allergic to raw apples but can drink the juice and eat them cooked; it's something in the solid part that makes him itchy and gives him digestive distress....) White vinegar will work just as well.

As far as vinegar concentration: The stuff you buy is normally diluted to 5% acidity. (For the record, the pure stuff is "glacial acetic acid" and gives off some nasty fumes. I'd be surprised if you can buy it at a normal store.) You got the right stuff. As you did, you want to dilute it a lot further, just a splash in a big cup of water. But you know best what works for your skin.

Definitely try switching to sulfate-free shampoo or shampoo bars; lots of people are sensitive to sulfates and that might be contributing to the gunk on your head. And use conditioner, at least on your length away from your scalp. Stick with it for a few weeks (assuming the scalp doesn't get more irritated, obviously), because things will likely change a a bit and your sebum production will probably change to adapt to the new products.

With regard to coconut oil, or any oil that you want to put on your hair, make sure you get an oil that's edible. Stay away from the stuff marketed for hair -- it's usually overpriced vaseline whereas you want the real pure oil. Buy the stuff meant for cooking and eating.

[cheddarbiscuit]

You know, if you're allergic to apples, you might want to re-think using apple cider vinegar. (The real question, I suppose, is whether you're allergic to apple juice or cider. My husband's allergic to raw apples but can drink the juice and eat them cooked; it's something in the solid part that makes him itchy and gives him digestive distress....) White vinegar will work just as well.

As far as vinegar concentration: The stuff you buy is normally diluted to 5% acidity. (For the record, the pure stuff is "glacial acetic acid" and gives off some nasty fumes. I'd be surprised if you can buy it at a normal store.) You got the right stuff. As you did, you want to dilute it a lot further, just a splash in a big cup of water. But you know best what works for your skin.

Definitely try switching to sulfate-free shampoo or shampoo bars; lots of people are sensitive to sulfates and that might be contributing to the gunk on your head. And use conditioner, at least on your length away from your scalp. Stick with it for a few weeks (assuming the scalp doesn't get more irritated, obviously), because things will likely change a a bit and your sebum production will probably change to adapt to the new products.

With regard to coconut oil, or any oil that you want to put on your hair, make sure you get an oil that's edible. Stay away from the stuff marketed for hair -- it's usually overpriced vaseline whereas you want the real pure oil. Buy the stuff meant for cooking and eating.

Raw apples, everything else is fine. I'll try white vinegar. I'm pretty sure it will have the same burning effect, but I'm used to it by now so I'll be okay.

I was going to use an edible oil anyway. I'm a frugal little lady. I'll go with coconut, and if I can't find that, olive, or almond. Which ever I see first, which will probably be olive.

[SpinDance]

cheddarbiscuit, good to hear you are getting some positive results, although I'm sorry you are having to deal with so many allergy type issues. My MIL is also allergic to basically everything, and I don't do too well with many of the acid foods, either, so I feel for you.

You are probably on information overload already, and I know that it can take a few weeks to get any one new routine change settled to know whether it will work for you long term. Your mention of having to put allergy stuff on after applying lotion sounds scary. For what it's worth, I've got yet another idea for you. This is long, sorry.

Anyhow, at some point after I started using oils on my hair it suddenly occurred to me that I should never put anything on my hands that I didn't want in my hair, because sooner or later I'd touch my hair and then whatever it is would be in it. My skin tends to be very dry, so I would put lotion on to try to keep them from cracking and bleeding, especially in winter. I decided to try some of my hair oils on my skin. I used either Shea Butter or coconut oil straight, and even jojoba, which penetrates the skin. I didn't always like the oiliness, so made a blend of Shea butter, coconut oil, jojoba oil and sometimes other oils that I happen to have around. The main part is about equal parts Shea butter and coconut oil, with enough other, liquid at room temperature oils to make a semi-solid lotion concoction. I've been using these blends with very good effect for over a year now. It is working better for me than store-bought the lotions did, and it doesn't make my hair nasty if/when it gets into it. I use it every night on my feet, and also apply it elsewhere, hands, arms, etc, as needed.

Recently someone suggested this Frizz Buster Gel (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=6508), to help with my frizz and mentioned that it felt good on skin, too. It is working a treat on my hair, and felt so nice on my hands that I now add some aloe to my oil/lotion in my hands before I apply it. This extends the oil/lotion quite nicely, and seems to be a very nice addition, at least for my skin. Your mileage may vary, of course!

[SpeakingEZ]

No, you don't. No one buys 100% pure vinegar, because that would be a solid, and it looks a bit like table salt, only a lot more dangerous. And getting it to be 100% pure would cost the earth. Most chemical supply catalogues would have 98% purity or something like that.

Like pretty much everyone else, you buy a 5% solution and dilute it.

Just a misunderstanding. I thought she got something that advertized being diluted from what we normally get. Sorry.

[cheddarbiscuit]

Guys, anyone know where I can find coconut oil?

[auburn]

Dear, read carefuly, and do what I say, it's most probably the best:

GO TO A DERMATOLOGIST!!!!!!! DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO YOUR HAIR AND SCALP BEFORE A DERMATOLOGIST SEES WHAT YOU HAVE THERE AND TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO!!! I MEAN IT!!!

[RitaCeleste]

If you are in the US you can get coconut oil at Walmart. Its in the baking isle down from the oil, next to the lard. Its solid at room temp and is in a tall tub like container white with a black top and says LouAna.