questions regarding washing and conditioning( CW, baking soda, shampoo, cones, sls )

[jaquelines]

i have a lot of things to figure out with my hair, so you might see often a new post from me..:cool:

this time is the washing. i have been reading and reading through the forum, but i don´t get some things .

1) what is the difference between a clarifying shampoo/conditioner and baking soda/sls shampoo. when is absolutely necessary to use one or the other ( i mean of course besides of the buildup ). for example : can i wash cones out if i use something like VO5 clarifying ( condish or poo ) ? or is this only working on a certain type of cones ?
is any difference between bakind soda and sls, except the "sls" ?

2) my scalp does not get oily from CO-wash, everything looks fine after, BUT it will get quicker greasy. is this because i am not letting it sit longer, or is it normal for a CO-wash ? i am not new on co-wash, i use it since last year on a regullary basis, is just, from time to time when i have to clarify ( and for that i need advice under 1 ) and i use a clarifying poo, my scalp stays longer clean. i admit i don´t let the conditioner sit in the shower for more than a few min, but i also use after every co -wash SMT and i massage the scalp, AND i let it sit everytime over the night. like that the oil from the scalp should be removed. actually. i thought, at least.

3) i use SKR for co-washes. is the kiwi/limesqueeze working better as for "removing oils and different type of dirt" from the hair ? or is it to hard if your scalp is not oily ?

4) i do not use cones. BUT i had a pretty smart idea, which is probably a very dumb one :poot: : if one should try different styles with his/her hair and being maybe a bit agressive :eyebrows:, like backcombing, tight up the hair in strong elastic bands, etc...i hope you get what i mean, would the usage of cones do any good, would they protect more ? so that is worthy using cones in conditioner and than clarifying everytime ? or at least oftener than what i do by using no-cones ? is it smart to use for this reason cones in conditioner ? or is the difference that small that is not worthy ?

5) i do regularly ( coconut ) oiling and i have also read in this matter a lot of things from here, what i am wondering at this point is : even though i read that oiling is good for the moisture, when someone was looking for advice for protein treatments she was recommended coconut . is coconut a protein ??
while also reading that coconut will penetrate the hair shaft even on cone hair, maybe not at his fullest, how is it REALLY : chemically speaking : is oiling on cone-conditioned hair worthy or not ?

6) at last : i guess i have medium hair to fine. is not that fine as scandinavian hair, but also not thick. my problem is that they don´t hold ANYTHING. for example if i braid my hair, and let it sit even for the entire night , they would barely hold the "s" shape and eventually, after maybe 20 min fall and look flat. is it because they lack protein, or because they are simply fine ?

i can´t wait to get your answers !:poot:

[krissykins]

I'll admit that a lot of the phrasing confused me and that the text color makes it hard to read, but here's what I'd like to offer:

1) what is the difference between a clarifying shampoo/conditioner and baking soda/sls shampoo. when is absolutely necessary to use one or the other ( i mean of course besides of the buildup ). for example : can i wash cones out if i use something like VO5 clarifying ( condish or poo ) ? or is this only working on a certain type of cones ?
is any difference between bakind soda and sls, except the "sls" ?

The clarifying shampoo has ingredients that help remove buildup, such as SLS. The conditioner also helps remove stuff from your hair, but I don't believe it is designed to strip your hair of buildup and such like the shampoo. The cleansing agents in the shampoo are much stronger than in the conditioner. Cones cannot be removed with a clarifying conditioner because the conditioner does not penetrate through the silicone and wash it away. SLS can remove silicones.

I'm not sure how baking soda and SLS differ, I'll have to poke around the internet for some reliable information, but I believe it has something to do with how they react to hair or something like that.

2) my scalp does not get oily from CO-wash, everything looks fine after, BUT it will get quicker greasy. is this because i am not letting it sit longer, or is it normal for a CO-wash ? i am not new on co-wash, i use it since last year on a regullary basis, is just, from time to time when i have to clarify ( and for that i need advice under 1 ) and i use a clarifying poo, my scalp stays longer clean. i admit i don´t let the conditioner sit in the shower for more than a few min, but i also use after every co -wash SMT and i massage the scalp, AND i let it sit everytime over the night. like that the oil from the scalp should be removed. actually. i thought, at least.

I think that the issue might be overmoisturizing the hair. Letting conditioner sit overnight is an effective way to get a deep conditioning treatment, but it's not necessarily cleansing. Leaving conditioner on my hair for up to 20 minutes for CO washing tends to work the best for me.

3) i use SKR for co-washes. is the kiwi/limesqueeze working better as for "removing oils and different type of dirt" from the hair ? or is it to hard if your scalp is not oily ?

It really depends on your hair and how it reacts to conditioner. The Kiwi Lime Squeeze works pretty well for removing oil from my hair and I have a dry scalp.

4) i do not use cones. BUT i had a pretty smart idea, which is probably a very dumb one : if one should try different styles with his/her hair and being maybe a bit agressive , like backcombing, tight up the hair in strong elastic bands, etc...i hope you get what i mean, would the usage of cones do any good, would they protect more ? so that is worthy using cones in conditioner and than clarifying everytime ? or at least oftener than what i do by using no-cones ? is it smart to use for this reason cones in conditioner ? or is the difference that small that is not worthy ?

I think that cones can protect your hair from some damage, but in this case, I think that all it would do is hide the visible damage rather than prevent it.

5) i do regularly ( coconut ) oiling and i have also read in this matter a lot of things from here, what i am wondering at this point is : even though i read that oiling is good for the moisture, when someone was looking for advice for protein treatments she was recommended coconut . is coconut a protein ??
while also reading that coconut will penetrate the hair shaft even on cone hair, maybe not at his fullest, how is it REALLY : chemically speaking : is oiling on cone-conditioned hair worthy or not ?

Whoever recommended coconut oil as a protein treatment is a little confused. Coconut oil is a fat, but it does help prevent protein loss from hair. And by that I mean that coconut oil can help keep protein from leaving the hair shaft. It does not add protein to hair, but it helps prevent the need to constantly add more protein. Coconut milk would be a good alternative protein treatment.

And it sounds like another issue you could possibly be having with buildup could be from the coconut oil retaining too much protein in your hair.

6) at last : i guess i have medium hair to fine. is not that fine as scandinavian hair, but also not thick. my problem is that they don´t hold ANYTHING. for example if i braid my hair, and let it sit even for the entire night , they would barely hold the "s" shape and eventually, after maybe 20 min fall and look flat. is it because they lack protein, or because they are simply fine ?

I'm not sure. I know that some fine haired folks can manage to have hair retain braid waves, but having fine hair could possibly be the reason. I don't know too much about fine hair, having M/C hair and all, but hopefully someone can answer the question for you.


I do hope that helps. :)

[jaquelines]

waw. thank you so much for taking the time.
1) that means in any case i will only remove cones by sls-usage only; regarding build-up from natural prodcuts ( oils, proteins, etc..) i might get them off with condish, but is better to use poo ?
2)thank you. i will give it a try.although i don´t understand why 20 min sitting on the hair would work better for the scalp than overnight, but i will definitely try it !
4) ok, better like this. i prefer no no cones.
5) i also had my doubts about that statement.
6)you lucky girl with your M/C !

[krissykins]

Cones can be removed by baking soda as well, I'm just unsure of how the chemistry of it all works. It all depends on your preference as well :p

Leaving conditioner on hair overnight as opposed to a few minutes causes the softening agents and other things like that to soak into hair. The cleansing agents need a little bit of time to work their magic, but they can settle down after awhile. I can't think of a good way to explain it, but think of what would happen if you left shampoo on your hair overnight. Not super cleansing! :p but if you leave it on for a few minutes while scrubbing (gently, of course!) then it cleans the hair. Conditioner is similar to that, it just needs more time since the cleansing agents aren't as strong.

I'm glad I could be of help :) let us know if there are any other questions we can help you with!

[jaquelines]

regarding the scalp - is this common, that co-washers are getting quicker a oily scalp than poo washers, or is it just me?

[krissykins]

I'm unsure of the answer to that. From what I know, shampoo washing can often dry out the scalp more than conditioner washing, but I think it depends on the ingredients of each of the products and each individual head of hair. :)

[jaquelines]

any other ladies with suggestions ? and krissykins,thank you again for taking the time to answer my inquiry...

[proo]

I'll pipe up - yes, for me conditioner makes my hair get dirty much faster, but that goes for pretty much all products in my opinion, including shampoo; hence my quest to wash with water only while encouraging my own sebum all the way down to the ends. When I do clarify it's with a highly dilute sls rinse (few drops Prell in a big jug of water). Baking soda does the same thing as an sls: create an alkaline condition so the cuticle will open and dirt and oil will wash away. Some follow this with an acidic rinse to reacidify the hair. I use distilled water for the same effect. For me most of my issues (frizz, dryness, oiliness, static, itch, the list goes on) went away when I quit using products.

[Roseate]

regarding the scalp - is this common, that co-washers are getting quicker a oily scalp than poo washers, or is it just me?

Another input on CO: for me, it does make my hair get dirty faster (vs a CWC wash with diluted sulfate-free shampoo). I CWC once a week, but if I CO my hair needs it twice a week. My hair and scalp do feel clean after a good CO, but for some reason it doesn't stay clean as long.

This isn't a deal-breaker for me, I don't mind washing twice a week in summer, but in winter I usually do CWC instead for this reason.

[jaquelines]

@roseate huh..i am glad not to be the only one with "quicker to greeasiker" hair after a CO.

@proo ..which means i can use a baking soda wash rather than a SLS ?

is there a difference between a clarifying conditioner and a shampoo ( of course, cone free ) ? regarding what their effectivity concerns ?

[krissykins]

Clarifying shampoo will clean hair better than clarifying conditioner. It will strip everything away. :flower:

[proo]

Yes, a baking soda wash can replace an sls shampoo, but personally it's too harsh for me, even if greatly diluted.