not feeling the shampoo bar love...any advice?

[emmaya]

So I've REALLY been trying to make shampoo bars work for me over the past few months. I've tried several CV bars, Burt's Bee's, and even made my own, and no matter what I do, my hair was matted, stiff, dry, tangled, not shiny, can't-run-my-fingers-through-it-awful! Some were worse than others, to be sure, but even with the best of them, it couldn't compare to my "normal" hair. :confused:

I did a clarifying wash in advance to remove buildup from my "benign neglect" days of using dh's head & shoulders, whatever conditioner was on sale at Costco, and leave-in silicone serums.

I tried it with conditioner on the ends before and/or after washing, I tried it after deep conditioning treatments, I tried it with no conditioner at all. I even resorted back to using silicone to try and smooth it out.

This weekend, I finally gave up and gave my head a good lathering with the old stuff and of course, it's glorious! Shiny, silky, smooth. grrrr.

I'm really motivated to make the bars work. I shudder at the list of chemicals I'm dousing myself with, and as a soap-maker, it seems hypocritical to use bottled junk when I can probably make it myself, or at least support another business who can!

Any ideas?

thanks!

[Nae]

Are you using a citrus or vinegar rinse afterwards? Do you have hard water?

[Chromis]

You mention conditioner, but have you tried a vinegar or citric acid rinse? I find that makes all the difference!

[2luvmycurls]

Well, I know you're not the only one - I've heard a lot of people say they can't get them to work. I wonder if maybe hair type could play a role at all?

Personally, I just started using them (not even for a week so far though), and I think I love them, though they did kind of leave a bit of a coating/weird feeling on my hair, and I put conditioner in x2, but it seems really soft and (for my hair type) sort of kind of silky-ish. I don't have any ideas to help you since I'm so new to it myself, but just wanted to let you know you're not alone. Hopefully you can get some insight on what to do to make it work for you, but in the end, not everything works for everybody, and maybe this is one of those instances...but hopefully not since it sounds like you do really want it to work.

Do you have hard water? Did you try a vinegar rinse afterwards?

[emmaya]

We have hard-ish water...we do get a little bit of scale in our sinks but it takes quite a while to build up.

(In Alaska, we're in the 61-120 range...MUCH better than the 180-250 in Texas!)

I have tried an ACV rinse, both with my bn routine and with the sb's and my hair felt fried afterwards.

I've considered a weak lemon juice rinse or citric acid but haven't done it yet. Would that be any different from ACV?

[Chromis]

We have hard-ish water...we do get a little bit of scale in our sinks but it takes quite a while to build up.

(In Alaska, we're in the 61-120 range...MUCH better than the 180-250 in Texas!)

I have tried an ACV rinse, both with my bn routine and with the sb's and my hair felt fried afterwards.

I've considered a weak lemon juice rinse or citric acid but haven't done it yet. Would that be any different from ACV?

I do notice a difference. My best combo has been a mix of old-fashioned ACV (the kind with the "mother" that gets all clumpy near the bottom) and citric acid. I've used lemon in henna mixes before and it dried my hair out quite badly.

I mix my acid rinse stronger than others I have seen here. I also dunk the length in the cup for a just a quick couple of seconds and then dump the cup on my scalp. I keep a two-cup measure in the tub just for the purpose.

[gabee]

I had the same problem, it took me a few weeks to get the shampoo bar thing down just right. A really important thing is to add an acidic rinse at the end of your shower, I prefer citric acid to ACV because I can't stand the vinegar smell.

At first I had really bad waxy, greasy hair, but after a week of using shampoo bars (I shampoo daily), I finally realized that it takes a lot more manual scrubbing to get a nice lather. My roots and most of my hair felt amazing, but my ends would dry to be kinda gross and stringy still. Last night i lathered twice, spending a few minutes scrubbing and massaging my scalp REALLY WELL. I used a citric acid rinse and then I finished it off with some cheapy cone-free conditioner (suave naturals). Today my hair feels great, root to tip!

It does take a few weeks for hair to get used to shampoo bars, and also it helps to try out different scrubbing techniques, because I find how I shampoo my hair is very important with the bars. I use Sweet Creek Herbs shampoo bars, they're great :)

[wvgemini]

I'm wanting to love them too, but can't really seem to get them to work. I've tried ACV rinses, but I need to make sure to have a dedicated cup next to my tub or I can't do it, lol. I think I'm going to buy a couple of other options on payday, though. There are a couple of etsy soapcrafters who have different types of poos that I would like to try out. I'm glad DF is going to be out of town for a couple of weeks. I'm going to have to rearrange the bathroom to make everything fit, lol!

[spidermom]

My opinion: soap is too alkaline for the hair. The scalp is kept healthy by maintaining an acid mantle. Most if not all shampoos are pH balanced to be compatible. Soap is not.

[Angel_099]

I had the same problem, it took me a few weeks to get the shampoo bar thing down just right. A really important thing is to add an acidic rinse at the end of your shower, I prefer citric acid to ACV because I can't stand the vinegar smell.

At first I had really bad waxy, greasy hair, but after a week of using shampoo bars (I shampoo daily), I finally realized that it takes a lot more manual scrubbing to get a nice lather. My roots and most of my hair felt amazing, but my ends would dry to be kinda gross and stringy still. Last night i lathered twice, spending a few minutes scrubbing and massaging my scalp REALLY WELL. I used a citric acid rinse and then I finished it off with some cheapy cone-free conditioner (suave naturals). Today my hair feels great, root to tip!

It does take a few weeks for hair to get used to shampoo bars, and also it helps to try out different scrubbing techniques, because I find how I shampoo my hair is very important with the bars. I use Sweet Creek Herbs shampoo bars, they're great :)

Really great advice here! :) I use Sweet Creek Herbs bars too and LOVE them! Kathleen is super sweet too and maybe able to offer some pointers if you want to still try and make your own. I found that the best way to work up a lather is to use a gentle large circular motion. And like she said--scrub really well . My arms have never looked better since using shampoo bars! LOL! I do use an ACV rinse...which I had to play around with quite a bit before getting it right...and don't really mind the smell since it fades away anyway.

[Kaelee]

Personally I recommend not using them if they don't work for you... But then I'm a proud cone-head! :)

I think whoever mentioned the pH of soap vs. Shampoo is right, but I'm not sure. Maybe try castille soap though if you still want to go the soap route? The liquid kind, not the bar. Though IMO that stuff is a little harsh in some ways.

[emmaya]

My opinion: soap is too alkaline for the hair. The scalp is kept healthy by maintaining an acid mantle. Most if not all shampoos are pH balanced to be compatible. Soap is not.

good point. interestingly enough, the one that worked best was my own concoction, and I get a bit nutty about making neutral soaps.

It really irks me that most soaps, even baby ones, are sold at pH 9 or higher because that's not good for the skin. (skimping on oils and not neutralizing the lye properly is great for the soapmakers' bottom line, however) grrr. I should have recognized this truth for hair too!

I'll give it another go, and see if I can enrich the soap with something mildly acidic...herb infused plant hydrosols or something!

[BlazingHeart]

Whoever mentioned the way you scrub is different...totally right.

I also find that it's a little difficult to get enough shampoo on my head with a shampoo bar, and I have to do 12-14 strokes from roots to tips to get enough. Also, I have to carefully re-wet after I've put the shampoo on sometimes because there's not enough water to have some 'play' in the shampoo.

You may need to rinse longer. I find it takes longer to rinse out than the conventional bottled stuff.

I find conditioner is still necessary, but I need a much lighter conditioner or my hair gets kind of gunky. (Not from build-up so much as from there being less stripped off my hair so not as much needs to be replaced, I think)

Best of luck figuring out something that works for you!

[motormuffin]

I use this for washing my hair. Love it! http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Plus-Natural-Beauty-Cleansing-Bar

[julliams]

I tried to love them too. Liked the beer one I tried, but it totally disappeared in about a week. Not sure why, but it just disintegrated and turned into sludge that was unusable - so a complete waste of money. I kept it in a ziplock plastic bag, attempting to dry it out as best I could between uses. Ended up with a runny mess and half of it disappeared down the sink.

[Gulbahar]

My opinion: soap is too alkaline for the hair. The scalp is kept healthy by maintaining an acid mantle. Most if not all shampoos are pH balanced to be compatible. Soap is not.
That's what commercials keep telling us. :rolleyes: But, you know, for many people it's just not true. I make my own soaps and write in discussion boards with other soap makers. So many of them started soap making because their skin is very sensitive and reacts to real soap much, much better than to all kinds of "neutral" washing detergents. If I use regular shower gel on my body - be they the normal super market stuff or nice and gentle natural products - my skin develops dry and itchy spots after a while. When I started using soap (first Aleppo soap, later my own) my skin suddenly was perfectly happy. My hair loves soap as well, dito my scalp. Of course a soap wash on hair should be followed by an acidic rinse.
Not all hair types like soap, that's true. But we all know that all hair is different. :shrug:

[wvgemini]

I think my biggest problem is that I keep finding my hair likes sulphates. I don't always use them (during much of the week, I CO), but when I want to suds up, my hair just prefers a more traditional shampoo. My main reason for wanting to go to bars is for travel. I keep a shower bag at work (for after workouts) and I go on different training exercises and annual training and stuff. Not to mention the different conferences I fly to. It would be much much easier! I like Lush bars, but they're a little spendy. I'm hoping to find some I like ...

[emmaya]

I use this for washing my hair. Love it! http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Plus-Natural-Beauty-Cleansing-Bar

ahhh! very cool, a nice pH for hair eh? might have to try this one! thanks!
:D

[rhosyn_du]

I've considered a weak lemon juice rinse or citric acid but haven't done it yet. Would that be any different from ACV?

The difference between ACV and lemon or lime juice rinses is huge for my hair. I know a lot of people don't find much of a difference, but ACV completely fries my hair, whereas lemon and lime juice leave it nice and soft and tangle-free. I also have to use a fairly strong acidic rinse: 2-4 Tbsp. of lemon/lime juice depending on the bar (CV needs a stronger rinse, SCH less, in my experience) in a quart of water.

I've also found that bars work better for me if I CWC than if I lather the whole length. My scalp and roots are very happy with shampoo bars, but my length past the shoulders is happier with just conditioner.

[emmaya]

The difference between ACV and lemon or lime juice rinses is huge for my hair. I know a lot of people don't find much of a difference, but ACV completely fries my hair, whereas lemon and lime juice leave it nice and soft and tangle-free. I also have to use a fairly strong acidic rinse: 2-4 Tbsp. of lemon/lime juice depending on the bar (CV needs a stronger rinse, SCH less, in my experience) in a quart of water.


thanks! I just ordered some SCH samples, and I'll give the lemon juice a try!

[Blond On Blond]

I use this for washing my hair. Love it! http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Plus-Natural-Beauty-Cleansing-Bar

Sounds interesting. Do you use conditioner?

[annieangel149]

My opinion: soap is too alkaline for the hair. The scalp is kept healthy by maintaining an acid mantle. Most if not all shampoos are pH balanced to be compatible. Soap is not.

i totally agree! i personally wouldn't go near shampoo bars! but thats my opininion! i know some work but i just wouldn't risk it on my hair! my hair needs sulphates and cones!!

[sugar&nutmeg]

I wash my hair with goats milk soap, followed by an acv rinse (even though we have a water softener). I sometimes use a miniscule (like, smaller than a green pea) bit of GFTN on my length, partially rinsed out. Or a bit of coconut oil. This combo leaves my hair shiny and soft for days. No itchies.

I haven't used actual shampoo for years, but if I CO (V05), I notice my scalp gets itchy quite soon.

I think the soap/shampoo debate is like anything else we do for our hair/skin. If it works, it's right for you. If it doesn't work, it isn't. In other words, no silver bullet here either, sadly.

[Chromis]

i totally agree! i personally wouldn't go near shampoo bars! but thats my opininion! i know some work but i just wouldn't risk it on my hair! my hair needs sulphates and cones!!

Er, but your sig says sulphate and cone free?

Shampoo bars have worked fine for me for five years now and many moves and water hardnesses. I didn't have any kind of adjustment period. Sulphates and cones though really dried my hair out and made my picky scalp itch even worse!

I do not use conditioner either, just an ACV/citric acid rinse.

[emmaya]

Chromis, what bars are your favorite?

I just got my SCH samples and I've been treating my ends to some camelia oil for the last few days...it's time for a wash!
-meg

[motormuffin]

Sounds interesting. Do you use conditioner?

I tried acv rinses and it didn't work well for me so yes I use conditioner on the length.

[georgia_peach]

I've only found one shampoo bar that worked for my hair and it's from Mehandi. They are expensive though: 4 oz-ish bars for $12 USD and then you still have to pay shipping. So, I decided to try some less expensive ones from CV, and they just do not work for me. I have to use vinegar rinses every single time and my hair is still kind of flat and lifeless. Going back to Mehandi when I can afford it.

[Khiwanean]

My opinion: soap is too alkaline for the hair. The scalp is kept healthy by maintaining an acid mantle. Most if not all shampoos are pH balanced to be compatible. Soap is not.Actually, I've read in a book (I don't recall the title right now) that was published back in the 1970s, that acid mantle skin is able to rebalance back to its natural pH on its own after exposure to something alkaline like soap. If I were at school right now, I would track down the book again so I could give and exact quote and reference it, but I'm not so :shrug:.

Regardless, the acidic rinse after using a shampoo bar should help to rebalance the skin's pH.

[Gulbahar]

Actually, I've read in a book (I don't recall the title right now) that was published back in the 1970s, that acid mantle skin is able to rebalance back to its natural pH on its own after exposure to something alkaline like soap. If I were at school right now, I would track down the book again so I could give and exact quote and reference it, but I'm not so :shrug:.

Regardless, the acidic rinse after using a shampoo bar should help to rebalance the skin's pH.
Of course the skin can rebalance - it has to do this all the time.
I found one interesting explanation for the benefits of soap washing: As a reaction to the high pH the upper layers of the skin will swell a little thus keeping the suds on the surface, not being able to penetrate through to the deeper layers. Usually the skin is able to find back it's acidic pH within ten minutes or so after washing.
On the other hand when you use pH neutral surfactants the skin doesn't swell because it doesn't realise that there is something going on. So the surfactant can penetrate deeper and wash out vital fatty acids from the deeper layers.
For me this makes sense and backs up my own experience with soap and pH neutral surfactants. The latter will leave my skin dry and (in the long run) flaky and itchy. I don't have this problem with natural soap, even if it's not superfatted.

[Rini]

By all means, persevere and try new methods with your soap bar....but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Soap bars were a disaster for my hair (dry, massively shedding hair) and no matter what I did I couldn't find a way to make them work for me. No problem, I can just cross one more thing off my list of things to try :D

One thing is for sure around here: what is the HG for some people will be a disaster for others. Personally, my hair likes to be contrary and decide it's not going to be cooperative with products/methods/styles that the majority of LHC members like. In the beginning I felt like I was doing something wrong, but I've since learned I just have strange hair :rolleyes:

[Bene]

My hair responded pretty well to poo bars once I figured out how to use them. I did have some minor trouble when I first got them, but like others have said, a lot of it has to do with how you use them. It's not like shampooing with regular stuff, where you use a little bit, swish it around with your fingers in your hair, build up a lather and rinse. With the bars, you really have to get it in there, run it over your head like you're combing with the bar, then start lathering. Sometimes, depending on the bar, you have to lather more than once. As in rinse it out completely and start again. And make sure you rinse well, leaving no residue.


What worked best for me was to start from scratch, as in do a baking soda clarifying wash, and ACV rinse. Then the next time I washed my hair, I used a shampoo bar. Lather 2-3 times, rinse completely, ACV rinse, then rinse and done. It doesn't take very long once you get the hang of it.


I've been pretty much using poo bars and ACV rinses exclusively for almost 2 years, except for my brief (2 month) back-to-cones experiment.



But in the end, if you've tried and tried and tried and it still doesn't work for you, then go back to what does.

[ratgirldjh]

I use this for washing my hair. Love it! http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Plus-Natural-Beauty-Cleansing-Bar

Do you still use an ACV rinse after? Just curious. Also does the smell linger? It is a very strong smell!

[motormuffin]

Do you still use an ACV rinse after? Just curious. Also does the smell linger? It is a very strong smell!

I tried the acv rinse followed by an oil for a little while but my hair started to be static-y. I used diluted acv. They smell didn't stay but a light conditioner is working better. The white rain or giovanni kind. I keep using that same cleansing bar though. My scalp doesn't get that white flake or itch when I use it. Love it.

[Arctic_Mama]

We have hard-ish water...we do get a little bit of scale in our sinks but it takes quite a while to build up.

(In Alaska, we're in the 61-120 range...MUCH better than the 180-250 in Texas!)

I have tried an ACV rinse, both with my bn routine and with the sb's and my hair felt fried afterwards.

I've considered a weak lemon juice rinse or citric acid but haven't done it yet. Would that be any different from ACV?

We live in the same town! I have had major issues with shampoo bars, too, even with rinses and lots of clarifying. It is the water here, for sure. Not just hardness, but the pH of it and even what they treat Eklutna with in processing. After much experimentation I confirmed that it wasn't me, but the water itself, and no amount of vitamin c, citric acid, or vinegar could counteract the fact that detergents work better with our water than soaps.

[emmaya]

We live in the same town!

Wait a minute! :joy:

There's only one long-haired spinner that I know of around here with that name and I believe we met a few weeks ago at a farewell party...ring a bell?

btw...love the quote...Martin Luther is my hero!


But for the rest of you, thank you! I've actually found a bar from SCH that is working wonderfully on my hair!