Help! This is what Coconut Oil has done to my hair!

[macnik_the_6th]

Here's my introduction post for a history: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=72774

Okay, so I'm new here, and trying to take things slow. But I really am having trouble waiting 2 weeks to try new things!

I went from CWC with my normal S+C, and switched out my S with a sulfate-free one. I'm actually using Dove sensitive skin soap, cut up in an old shampoo bottle and filled with water, because it's sulfate free, I've used it before in a pinch, and it's what I had on hand. It made my scalp hair super-soft and feeling light-weight, not heavy like it had before. I still follow up with a little Pantene on the scalp hair.

Even though it's sulfate-free, I think it may be really harsh, as it gets my scalp hair squeaky clean. Also, I've been able to stretch my washes from every day to ever other day (OMG, SO HAPPY about this, you have no idea!). I still wash my bangs and short side pieces with soap during my every day showers to prevent them from getting greasy, but my main scalp isn't oily! After a week, I noticed my scalp getting itchy on the second day, my bangs getting dull and lackluster, and my ends dry. I was bouncing back and forth between wanting to try ACV rinses or overnight Coconut oil treatments next, but went with the oil as my ends were so dry. I wanted to apply it to the scalp as well, to help with itchies.

First attempt: hair much too thick to get the oil on the scalp, needed to soap up the length to get it out in the shower (conditioner only didn't do it).

Second attempt: used EVOO on scalp (got rid of itches!), but EVOO took 2 shampoos to get out of scalp hair! Still needed to shampoo length to get out oil. All this shampooing the ends is defeating the CWC I was doing! The EVOO seemed to perk up my lackluster bangs.

Third attempt: ignored scalp, mixed coconut oil 50/50 with 3MM in hopes that it would rinse out better in the shower. It did! Yay! It felt AMAZING when I first rinsed it out! Then I added my normal conditioners, and it seemed like there was oil in there still - the hair seemed sticky and had no slip.

Other things I've noticed: My hair takes FOREVER to dry! It seems to stay wet and has a heavy feel. My ends seem crunchy if they air dry unless I wrap them up with the wet hair and then they dry silky smooth. The middle section of my hair feels smooth once dry, and strong. However, I seem to have lost ALL SLIP that my cone conditioners were providing me! Styling while wet has become a torture! I have noticed that once my length is dry, which isn't until the second day, it feels much better than the first day after wash.

I'm so unhappy with the lack of slip (this is the biggest thing), the crunchiness of my ends, and the second-day itches. I'm considering going back to CWC, or switching to a "proper" shampoo. I just don't have time in the morning to let conditioner sit on my hair for an extended length of time (e.g. more than the few minutes in the shower), either. I've heard all about the benefits of oiling, but I'm not sure I can keep going with this lack of slip! :(

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks so much!

Nikki

[Alaia]

You might want to try clarifying to get rid of 'cone remnants.

Then, try using the oil as a leave-in maybe instead of a deep treatment every two days (that's a lot!).

I found that coconut oil is fabulous for my hair as a leave-in, not so fabulous as a deep treatment.

ETA: taking a long time to dry is not necessarily a bad thing. You have iii hair so it's going to take longer anyway, but the less porous your hair is, the longer it will take to dry. Mine takes 8 hours and it's only half as long as yours!

[pink.sara]

Wow, so you've used soap, coconut oil, EVOO and 3mm (which is really coney and heavy) all in the space of a fortnight?! Sounds like a perfect recipe for build up. If I were you I would clarify. And I'd also give up on the dove soap mix thing and invest in a decent shampoo (can be a suave or VO5 cheapie) If you feel you need to shampoo, or try CO for a few weeks/months if you can.

Coconut oil as a leave in can contain too much protein for some people and make the hair crunchy, I second trying it as a leave in with the tiniest bit.
And as for the long time drying as a iii I sympathise, mine takes 4-6 hours at APL and that's if I agitate it. What makes that worse though is to overload it with products.

I know its tempting to dive in but Try one thing at a time!

(Also oil washes out easier when you massage conditioner through rather than shampooing.)
Hope you find a routine that suits you :)

[EmiliaF]

I would also suggest to check your conditioners to see if they contain silicones. I'm not sure that sulfate-free shampoos can actually fully remove the cones so you might have some build-up form those.
I also only use coconut oil as a leave-in and the big rule here is that less is more. I only use a tiny amount (1 fingernail... and this doesn't mean a piece as big as a fingernail, but whatever is under the fingernail when you've scratched the surface of the oil) and distribute it in my length. I do this whenever I re-braid, which is mostly in the morning and in the evening.

Oil-deep-treatments are definitely hard to wash out, which is why I would never do it every two days. That's just too much work. It is much easier to get oil out with a conditioner-wash instead of using shampoo. I don't know why exactly that is, but this is a well-know 'LHC-fun-fact'. But even with conditioner, EVOO is really hard to rinse out for me.
As a deep-treatment I just use some conditioner mixed with honey. That works very well and is much easier to rinse out. And as I said, oils (in very small amounts) as a leave-in conditioner.

[pink.sara]

Ooh, and have you tried a vinegar rinse? I have oily oily hair and live in a hard water area and have just ventured into vinegar rinse territory and it's very useful. I can feel I have less build up and it also stopped my scalp being itchy and greasy after 1 day.
Just a thought.

[LunaMoon]

Here's my introduction post for a history: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=72774

Okay, so I'm new here, and trying to take things slow. But I really am having trouble waiting 2 weeks to try new things!

I went from CWC with my normal S+C, and switched out my S with a sulfate-free one. I'm actually using Dove sensitive skin soap, cut up in an old shampoo bottle and filled with water, because it's sulfate free, I've used it before in a pinch, and it's what I had on hand. It made my scalp hair super-soft and feeling light-weight, not heavy like it had before. I still follow up with a little Pantene on the scalp hair.

Even though it's sulfate-free, I think it may be really harsh, as it gets my scalp hair squeaky clean. Also, I've been able to stretch my washes from every day to ever other day (OMG, SO HAPPY about this, you have no idea!). I still wash my bangs and short side pieces with soap during my every day showers to prevent them from getting greasy, but my main scalp isn't oily! After a week, I noticed my scalp getting itchy on the second day, my bangs getting dull and lackluster, and my ends dry. I was bouncing back and forth between wanting to try ACV rinses or overnight Coconut oil treatments next, but went with the oil as my ends were so dry. I wanted to apply it to the scalp as well, to help with itchies.

First attempt: hair much too thick to get the oil on the scalp, needed to soap up the length to get it out in the shower (conditioner only didn't do it).

Second attempt: used EVOO on scalp (got rid of itches!), but EVOO took 2 shampoos to get out of scalp hair! Still needed to shampoo length to get out oil. All this shampooing the ends is defeating the CWC I was doing! The EVOO seemed to perk up my lackluster bangs.

Third attempt: ignored scalp, mixed coconut oil 50/50 with 3MM in hopes that it would rinse out better in the shower. It did! Yay! It felt AMAZING when I first rinsed it out! Then I added my normal conditioners, and it seemed like there was oil in there still - the hair seemed sticky and had no slip.

Other things I've noticed: My hair takes FOREVER to dry! It seems to stay wet and has a heavy feel. My ends seem crunchy if they air dry unless I wrap them up with the wet hair and then they dry silky smooth. The middle section of my hair feels smooth once dry, and strong. However, I seem to have lost ALL SLIP that my cone conditioners were providing me! Styling while wet has become a torture! I have noticed that once my length is dry, which isn't until the second day, it feels much better than the first day after wash.

I'm so unhappy with the lack of slip (this is the biggest thing), the crunchiness of my ends, and the second-day itches. I'm considering going back to CWC, or switching to a "proper" shampoo. I just don't have time in the morning to let conditioner sit on my hair for an extended length of time (e.g. more than the few minutes in the shower), either. I've heard all about the benefits of oiling, but I'm not sure I can keep going with this lack of slip! :(

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks so much!

Nikki


Sorry maybe I am stupid but I found that is difficult to understand what you want to achieve.
My advise is stop to wash your hair and scalp with Dove sensitive skin soap. Find a hair shampoo that is sulphate free. Soap + pantene are too much for your scalp.
About the oils, I don't know how often are you using these, and how long are you waiting between attempts. I am just trying to understand... You are using the Dove sensitive skin soap on your hair, but is using other shampoo to try to take the oil out. could you tell us the name of this other shampoo?

[macnik_the_6th]

Thank you all for your comments so far! Just a little clarification before I run off to work...

I think my long-term goals are to strengthen and lengthen my hair. My short-term is to reduce oiliness and washing frequency.

I went almost 2 weeks washing every other day with the dove soap as my shampoo (I'm not currently using another shampoo) with pretty good results, although I did notice crunchy ends during that time as well. I used that instead of a regular sulfate-free shampoo because I've used it before, and had it on hand.

My oil attempts were every other day, as I wash my hair every other day. Too often I guess! I also know I tried too many things too quick, because I just wasn't happy with not being able to get the oil out. That's why I posted here, I guess - to get a proper scolding! ;)

I wanted to next try ACV rinses, but went with oil instead.

My conditioners all have cones in them - and I love the slip I get from them! 3MM is an old and trusted friend, just not a current part of my routine.

Okay, so I think I'm going to go back to CWC only, and switch to a sulfate-free shampoo, instead of dove soap. Then maybe try ACV? Or go to cone-free conditioners? I'd like to eventually try CO, too. That's the problem - too many changes that I want to make!!!

I'm normally a very patient person, but for this, eh, not so much. :)

[Alaia]

If you truly want to get rid of build up and you are using a coney conditioner, you need to be using a sulfate shampoo, or clarifying whenever the build up gets too bad.

CO tends to work best (from what I've seen) with cone-free conditioners, so you may want to switch to cone free, sulfate free products entirely before you do anything else. ;)

[Alvrodul]

I second Alaia's statement - and would like to add that keeping a sulfate shampoo around is a good idea anyway - it is not only cones that give buildup, you get buildup from oils as well, and the heavier the oil the more likely it is that buildup will occur. I definitely need to do an occasional wash with a sulfate shampoo to get rid of that. Sulfates are not evil - but there are many who do better without them.
And when trying new things - it is much better to do one single change, and let your hair get a a couple of weeks to adjust, and then do the next change in your routine. With a whole lot of new things thrown at your hair at once, you won't be able to figure out which of the new things caused a reaction. And a reaction would be almost inevitable with a whole lot of changes thrown at your hair at one time!

[kitcatsmeow]

You might want to try clarifying to get rid of 'cone remnants.

Then, try using the oil as a leave-in maybe instead of a deep treatment every two days (that's a lot!).

I found that coconut oil is fabulous for my hair as a leave-in, not so fabulous as a deep treatment.

ETA: taking a long time to dry is not necessarily a bad thing. You have iii hair so it's going to take longer anyway, but the less porous your hair is, the longer it will take to dry. Mine takes 8 hours and it's only half as long as yours!

Ditto that. I had problems when I first started playing with oils again. Clarified (also got a water filter for my shower head so you may want to consider something like that if you have high chlorine or hard water) Viola! My hair loves oil now and it's soft and I have slip even without cones and (ok I use a cone condish every once in a while! :o )

And second whoever said ACV rinses. My hair loves those too!! slip and shine :)

[LunaMoon]

Good you are stop using the soap.I read in your intro you have hard water. Hard water+soap are not very good friends. Use a shampoo.
Well I have to say the same about the sulfates. I use Cones (I am COin, the CO I use for wash is cone free but I use cones after) and my hair is very happy with SLeS shampoo once a week. No build up. Shampoo are detergent based and soaps are soap based, so if you call shampoo I will think you are using some detergent based product. Detergent based (shampoo) were much better for hard water.
I don't use big quantity of oils but they are the key in my routine. I use them once a week only.
My advice: Clarify, buy a cheap SLeS shampoo and stop with the soap.
You your hair is oily: play with oils on your wet ends for now.
Try using oils on wet/damp hair or to seal in some moisturizer.
Oils in dry (not wet hair) is not fot everyone. Mine doesn't like very much.
To give strengh: protein - note this will not make your hair beautifil, just strong. You need a deep moiturizerd afterwards (same day) to balance your hair because protein makes your hair dull and dry.
To moisturize: moisturizing masks, mosturizing COs and oils on wet hair.

[heidi w.]

I am hearing that you're essentially using, bar soap, if I have it right on your hair, even on the temples and bangs.

Then you applied Extra Light Virgin Olive Oil to the hair, and wondered why the hair is getting kind of crunchy.

Sweetie, sweetie. Take it easy.

There's so much going on and you're terribly confused. The most you ever should need to do is CWC or S&C hair wash. Wash the hair and condition the hair, oil once dry (or wet if you prefer), and USE A CARRIER OIL. EVOO is too heavy for hair and it has a higher acidity level than a carrier oil.

Jojoba, coconut oil.....something like that.

Anyone who has washed their hair with bar soap typically comes away with filminess on the hair and crazy itchiness. It doesn't rinse well out of the hair.

Coconut oil didn't do that to your hair...it's all the other stuff you did to the hair preceding the coconut oil that's resulting in this crazy hair.

Here's what I recommend. Clarify hair wash, whether purchased product or home recipe, such as Baking Soda and a shampoo of your choice (or some like water, but I prefer a bit of shampoo mixed with the baking soda).

Rinse very well. Use rather warm water for a good rinse, and to get the cuticle to open.

THEN condition well, consider even buying a tube of Biolage's conditioning balm. This is thick conditioner. Condition the length only with this conditioner. (Generally you should not need to condition scalp hair UNLESS, you have very curly hair.....) Salons carry this product, as does walmart salons--and they often have sales on this product. Make sure when you condition that the water is fairly warm so the cuticle will open and the uptake/bonding of conditioner will occur with the cortex of the hair as its designed to do.

ETA: In fact, my hair guru of decades ago now (and now deceased) recommended to me the Biolage line for 2 reasons: it's biodegradeable, and my hair type. Which is fine, but lots of it stick straight hair. I've never looked back. I used the combination of Biolage hydrating shampoo and the conditioning balm. END ETA.

Let it air dry or whatever you prefer to do, then oil lightly.

That's it.

Keep it simple. You're angsting too much over your hair, and trying too much stuff too rapidly.

All that stuff you're putting on your hair is blocking the ability of any conditioner to get to the cortex. Conditioner is designed to "bond" with the cortex. That's its design.

All these people try all this fancy, somewhat zany stuff, and the truth is, if you ask the really experienced people, that while detangling when changes a little bit, for the most part, we're just washing our hair, shampoo and conditioner. Not soap. No EVOO, no layering and caking on of product which then can form a barrier to further shampoos and conditioning, and then the hair gets kind of crunchy, and really tangly and this weird mix of oiliness and crunchiness.

Just start over again, and clear off all that goo.

You need to find someone who has hair like yours, what we call a "hair twin" and pay attention to that routine and copy it a bit with some details that may be somewhat different, but likely not overly so.

IF your hair is curly or has body of any sort (mine is stick straight, hardly holds a curl when pressed to do so about once every other year) it need MORE conditioner. And you get better results with conditiong if you use warm, not too cool of water.

Good luck,
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Unusually hard water can be problematic too. It can have a higher mineral content, which also can bond with the hair.

A clarify hair wash will remove buildup on the surface of the hair. IF you come out with weirdo hair, then clarify again. IF that still doesn't work, consider advancing to chelating the hair which removes product that has bonded to the cortex of the hair.

When you can afford it, search in a hardware store for a shower head water filter, buy extra filters so you can change them. They shouldn't cost a whole lot more than about $20 for the initial unit, take about one screwdriver to install it.

In my house, I installed water softener which best mimics the skin's acid mantle..including the head of the scalp skin.

IF you choose not to condition as part of your clarify hair wash, then this means the hair will feel slightly brittley, and seem weird because, what happened, is then you may not have replaced what's been removed -- conditioner, some kind of protective coating or softening for the hair.

Provide the needed conditioner, and all will be well, which is why I recommend that when you clarify that you condition as part of the process, in order to replace what's been removed.

IF you have hard water, a vinegar rinse (Blondes should use white vinegar not ACV). Never leave this rinse in. Rinsing with it is sufficient for removing any minerals deposited in that hair wash, and removing any excess product left on in that hair wash.

There's a reason we don't use bar soap, hard water and a sponge to wash our dishes. It doesn't emulsify as well, doesn't break up the surface tension of grease really well. Bar soap also has a lot more lard of sorts.....

Never use bar soap. When it hits hair that hasn't been washed for a while, and thus faces the layer of sebum on the hair, it doesn't remove this sebum very well. Instead it rather mixes with it and causes yet more buildup in an unpleasant way such that the hair feels this odd mixture of dry and wet, filmy, tacky, and just doesn't behave well.

Good luck.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Those with any body to the hair, as in curl factor, need to oil when wet.

heidi w.

[elbow chic]

You need sulfates if you are going to use cones. Sulfate-free products don't remove silicones and you will have a big build-up problem in a hurry.

There is nothing inherently wrong with sulfates, imo.

and yes, I would cut back to a super-basic routine for awhile using some tried and true products.

It's easy to get to doing too much all at once. Then when something weird happens, you don't know what to attribute it to. Less is more. :D

[heidi w.]

Newbies to hair care, in particular, tend to think more is better.

So not true.

heidi w.

[elbow chic]

Newbies to hair care, in particular, tend to think more is better.

So not true.

heidi w.

I did it to myself a couple months ago, which is how I know you're right about that. :laugh:

[Signe]

Have you tried Garnier Triple Nutrition? No cones and TONS of slip...I don't know how they do it but it is an awesome conditioner if you are needing to give up cones.

Also, if one of your goals is less oily scalp over time...maybe consider checking out the WO threads...I used to be a more frequent hair washer but now I can go 8 days or more!

[spidermom]

Scalp skin needs to maintain its acid mantle to keep your hair healthy. Soap is an alkaline and disrupts the acid mantle. Don't use it.

I like CWC with diluted shampoo applied to scalp only. When I need to clarify (every 3-4 months), I use full strength shampoo from scalp to ends. I also like a pre-wash oiling with coconut oil; I keep it away from my scalp.

[macnik_the_6th]

Thank you, thank you! (abbreviated post at lunch, will respond in more detail at home)

You know, there is almost TOO much info on LHC! I've been researching for over a month, and created my list of want-to-try ideas. It's difficult because there is no "oh, you have this hair type and this problem and you want to accomplish this, so do these steps", and I thought I had the steps right! There might be more info out there, but I just wasn't able to find it in my searches.

I was so happy with the progress so far, but I see I have been doing some very basic stuff wrong. I guess in this case, what I needed to do was screw up and plead to you all for help! LOL

Shampoo, not soap, CHECK. (You know, I couldn't find anything clearly indicating "Don't use bar soap", so I figured, I've used it in the past in a pinch, maybe I'm on to something! :oops: I also wanted to go sulfate-free to see if it helped with the oily hair. Heck, other people stretching washes have the itches, so it's to be expected, right?)

If I'm gonna go sulfate-free and still use cones, I'd better clarify with sulfate shampoo occasionally, CHECK.

Lay off the oils until I get the rest figured out, CHECK. Though I do want to try them eventually.

Nikki

[Alvrodul]

One more thing only: Don't fret too much about your hair. Unless you have real problem hair - like completely fried hair because of bleach or heat damage, or a medical condition impacting your hair- including allergies that prevents you using certain kinds of products.
If you try to relax, and be perhaps just a little bit lazy, by this I mean, if the old routine works you don't really need to tinker too much about it, do you? ;) Sometimes it seems that the ones practicing benign neglect are the ones with the most beautiful tresses - so I tend to not fuss too much with my own routine. :)
And I agree that it is easy to get a bit overloaded with tips, tricks and recipes when first getting on LHC!

[Gulbahar]

I just would like to counter the general soap-bashing.... Many of us happily use shampoo bars like Chagrin Valley and such: this is soap! So simply claiming that soap is bad for you is a bit odd. Of course if you have hard water you can get into trouble. Often an acidic rinse will help though.
Saying this I am not even sure if the Dove "soap" actually is real soap. Very often these bars are just solid surfactants very much (or even the same) as in shampoos.
Anyway, apart from this I agree with the other posters.

[heidi w.]

Chagrin bars are designed differently from most bars of soap. IF memory serves, there are bar soaps specifically designed for use on hair. The lanolin and fat content of such soaps is distinctly different from regular bar soap.

I should have been a little clearer about this.

The other poster stated that there's a benefit to benign neglect. I use this method, a lot. I put my hair up and ignore it and figure it'll do its thing. And somehow it does.

If you're ever in a pinch financially, choose for a quality conditioner over shampoo. And don't skip conditioning.

I am well aware that EVOO and Olive Oils have been used historically in soaps and as a hair/skin softener. These days are different. In days of yore shampoo was a powder and you tilted over a bowl of water. Often days of yore included some nasty stuff such as pine needle residue. No joke.

Think Palm Olive dishwash soap....it actually was a hair product at one time, too. I have the old ads to prove it. I wouldn't dream of using this on my hair now.

They've changed the recipes over time.

heidi w.

[Gulbahar]

Problem with the cheap soaps nowadays is that the use mostly oils that result in very drying soap, like palm oil, palm kernel oil or coconut oil. And often they add stuff that doesn't belong there. Also they take out the glycerine which forms naturally when you produce soap so the soaps become very drying. In the natural soaps today and also the traditional soaps it's still there.
My first soap that I used on hair - successfully! - was Aleppo soap which is probably the most traditional and simplest kind ever. I can use all kinds of natural soap on my hair, at least I've never found one that wasn't great for me. Nowadays I don't distinguish anymore between soap for my hair and soap for my skin. I make them myself and use them for everything.
Just saying...

[denzelswifey86]

I think you should use shampoo and dilute that to wash out the oil - soap that is not disgend for hair put moisture back and do not strip the oil left on your hair. Use baby shampoo

[Madora]

Of course I could be mistaken, but it sounds like there is too much stuff coating your hair!

Try clarifying, as others have recommended.

Then shampoo (dilute it with water), rinse well, then use your conditioner (dilute it as well).

Once your hair has dried, then use the coconut oil---sparingly.

Evooing is wonderful, but I've found a little goes a long way! But the results are fantastic!

Good luck!

[long_and_black]

coconut oil doesn't do good to everyone.
It doesn't do any good for me, it either gets it oily or too dry cause I try to get the oilyness out.

[faithsdaisy421]

I agree with what the others are saying about doing a ACV rinse on your hair. The smell goes away once it is dry, and your hair will (most likely) feel so much better. Also, listen to what others are saying about using SMALL amounts of coconut oil. The first time I used it, I lathered my hair up with a CRAZY amount. It took 3 washes to get it out :oops:!

[macnik_the_6th]

ETA: taking a long time to dry is not necessarily a bad thing. You have iii hair so it's going to take longer anyway, but the less porous your hair is, the longer it will take to dry. Mine takes 8 hours and it's only half as long as yours!

That is good to know! I love the texture of my hair once dry, but when wet it was a nightmare! LOL


Good you are stop using the soap.I read in your intro you have hard water. Hard water+soap are not very good friends.


Anyone who has washed their hair with bar soap typically comes away with filminess on the hair and crazy itchiness. It doesn't rinse well out of the hair.


Scalp skin needs to maintain its acid mantle to keep your hair healthy. Soap is an alkaline and disrupts the acid mantle. Don't use it.

Ahh, so that explains it! My whole life I've had itchy scalp, though, and soft white buildup, so I didn't associate it with the soap. And I was trying to stretch washes. The itchiness has actually reduced since the few times I used the oils on my scalp.


Coconut oil didn't do that to your hair...it's all the other stuff you did to the hair preceding the coconut oil that's resulting in this crazy hair.

Yep, I'm getting that. ;)


You need to find someone who has hair like yours, what we call a "hair twin" and pay attention to that routine and copy it a bit with some details that may be somewhat different, but likely not overly so.

That is a really hard thing to do here! Hair type isn't enough, and I've been trying to find someone with oily hair, itchy scalp, and hard water, in addition to my hair type. No luck so far.


Those with any body to the hair, as in curl factor, need to oil when wet.

That is something I haven't found yet in my research!


Also, if one of your goals is less oily scalp over time...maybe consider checking out the WO threads...I used to be a more frequent hair washer but now I can go 8 days or more!

I will definitely look into that.

-------

On the whole, I like my hair better today, even with all the issues, than I did before joining LHC. I was getting discouraged with the weightiness of my bangs and my daily routine was really getting to me. I stumbled across a baking soda and vinegar article on the livejournal site and got excited about possibly using that (um, now I see that I might not be able to with the hard water). Then someone directed me here.

I never thought in a million years I'd be able to go more than one day without washing my hair! That I've been able to stretch washes is really amazing and wonderful to me - you have no idea! It's funny, because my hair feels really great today - 2 days after my last treatment and wash.

I'm going to use a clarifying shampoo then condition tomorrow. Going forward I'm going to CWC (my previous routine) with a sulfate-free shampoo I recently bought. Give that a few weeks, and see if I can keep stretching the washes like I am now (every other day, more if I can handle it). I'll clarify with my sulfate shampoo if my ends get crunchy. See how my scalp does.

The next thing I want to try after that, assuming everything goes fine, is either vinegar rinses or cone-free conditioners. Does anyone think one will be better to try first? Also, I'll be looking for a shower filter, too!

Again, thank you all for your input!

Nikki

[macnik_the_6th]

Okay, hair smarties, I'm back with more questions!

First I'll describe what I've done since my last post, and what condition my hair is in. Then I'll describe what I think is the problem.

I'm washing my hair every other day, and have totally ditched the Dove soap. Previously, I was CWC, but I haven't done that for the first two washes, just S+C with sulfate shampoos to clarify. If my bangs and side shorties need a wash on the in-between days, I use the Suave 2-in-1 that I was using before. I pre-rinse in cold water to reduce oiliness (I think it's definitely working!), and I definitely want to go sulfate-free (for reducing chemical exposures and to stretch washes and reduce oiliness).

---------------

My first wash following my posting was to clarify. I used up what I had of my Neutrogena's Anti-Residue shampoo, washing twice, on both scalp and length. Then, because my dandruff was bothering me, I used a bit of my Nizoral. Then I conditioned with my normal (Dove Cond and Pantene).

My hair stunk like that Neutrogena shampoo for a whole day! I did notice the hair near my scalp was lighter and fluffy. My ends are still rough when dry, and my wet slip not back to 100%. I figured I might as well use my old sulfate shampoo to make sure I'd removed all excess residue, so...

My second wash was using my old routine, S+C with the Suave 2-in-1 and Dove Cond and Pantene. Felt okay in the shower, but when dry, my ends are still rough and I'm still missing a lot of slip! Definitely a reduction in the scalp itchies though!

My third wash was using my "new" routine. Basically, what I was doing with the Dove soap before I introduced oil, but using a "real" sulfate-free shampoo, Loreal EverSleek Restorative Shampoo. I was also doing CWC with the Dove soap (and before the Dove soap), which I will continue. This is what I hope to continue with for 2 weeks or more before my next step.

This is the first time I've CWC'd since clarifying, and I noted that my hair felt sticky when I added the first C (it never did that before my oil fiasco). It almost felt like I was trying to wash the oil out - this after two "clarifying" washes without CWC! Again, significant lack of slip, and styling wet is hell!

On the bright side, I love the shampoo! My scalp hair is soft, light-weight, and has a lot of natural curl! However, my ends still seem crunchy and brittle and rough when dry (running my fingers over them is like running my fingers on sandpaper!), and sticky when wet.

So, then I go off looking at shower filters, and realize most will not cut it for my well water. Our water is moderately hard, with tons of iron (my hair, white clothes, and shower all stained orange), and some sulfur (rotten egg smell), and no chlorine! I need a KDF-55 filter or a Greensand Iron Filter to get out the iron. Most shower filters use charcoal, which just won't do for my needs.

That's when it occurred to me that maybe my continued woes with my ends are due to mineral deposits! Could the reason I'm seeing it now and not in the past be due to residue from the oils and/or the Dove soap? It feels like there's still oil in there - when I've washed 3x since!

I did some research on the forum, discovered miracle water, and decided, with Hubby's insistence, to get the Water Sticks shower filter with iron filter. He'd like less itchy skin, too! I've decided on that because I want to continue cold-water rinses and would like my whole shower to be iron-free, not just my hair. Plus, with knee-length hair, that's tons of miracle water I'd have to make to rinse/wash my hair! It's just not "basin-washing" length. :) I'm hoping the shower filter helps with my itchy scalp, and oily skin, too. Who knows?

So, while I'm waiting to order the shower filter...

Does it sound like mineral buildup? Should I buy a chelating shampoo? Should I wait 2 weeks before using it? Should I continue on with my routine even though my ends are giving me hell? Is there something else I should be doing instead?

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

Nikki

[macnik_the_6th]

However, my ends still seem crunchy and brittle and rough when dry (running my fingers over them is like running my fingers on sandpaper!), and sticky when wet.

The "crunchy" part started with the Dove soap, and was made worse by the oil. The "sticky" part is just since the oil. I've had reduced slip since the oil.



This is the first time I've CWC'd since clarifying, and I noted that my hair felt sticky when I added the first C (it never did that before my oil fiasco).

It most definitely did not do that when I was CWC-ing with my regular shampoo and conditioners! It didn't do that with the Dove soap, either!

[Alvrodul]

Good to hear that your hair has improved! For the dry and brittle-feeling ends, I would suggest you try a SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) to add moisture to your hair. Since part of your problem has been buildup, this may have leeched moisture from your hair, or prevented your hair to gain oisture when it had the chance. I use SMTs quite frequently, and my hair loves it!
Also, if your water has much minerals, as you suspect, it may help to do a vinegar rinse to finish your wash. That is something that many here have success with. Just mix a small amount of vinegar or ACV with water and rinse with that to finish your wshing. Some wash it out, some don't. Just make sure you dilute the vinegar thoroughly - less is more here! I use about a tablespoon (probably less) of vinegar to about half a liter of water.

[jojo]

Sounds like build up, also your hair looks like it has quite a bit of bleach on it, which unfortunately will cause damage. Id clarify and do a SMT, followed by a ACV rinse.

[Peggy E.]

My hair hates, Hates, HATES coconut oil! If I pass the unopened bottle around my head the ends immediately crunch up!

I'm thirding/fourthing/whatevering the vinegar rinse - works wonders! And you're got a lotta hair there, lady. You must have been doing something right all this time!

[macnik_the_6th]

Good to hear that your hair has improved! For the dry and brittle-feeling ends, I would suggest you try a SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) to add moisture to your hair. Since part of your problem has been buildup, this may have leeched moisture from your hair, or prevented your hair to gain oisture when it had the chance. I use SMTs quite frequently, and my hair loves it!

Yes, that makes sense! However, now that I've jumped into trying too many new things at once, and had issues, I'm really hesitant to add one new thing onto an already changed routine!

Should I wait a few weeks, or just try it?


Also, if your water has much minerals, as you suspect, it may help to do a vinegar rinse to finish your wash.

Also on my list to try!

[macnik_the_6th]

Sounds like build up, also your hair looks like it has quite a bit of bleach on it, which unfortunately will cause damage. Id clarify and do a SMT, followed by a ACV rinse.

Oh, no, bleach would never touch my hair! :) That black streak is dyed. It's my "hair guilty pleasure", and about the most damaging thing I do to it. I get it re-dyed once every two years.

The blonde is natural, and I'm pretty sure it supposed to be lighter, but has been tinted orange by the iron in my water.

Part of the problem is I've already clarified! Or am I not doing it correctly?

[macnik_the_6th]

My hair hates, Hates, HATES coconut oil! If I pass the unopened bottle around my head the ends immediately crunch up!

I've heard that can happen. But shouldn't that feeling have gone away when I washed 3x with sulfate shampoos?


I'm thirding/fourthing/whatevering the vinegar rinse - works wonders! And you're got a lotta hair there, lady. You must have been doing something right all this time!

Vinegar rinse on my list of things to try, most definitely! And thank you! It's been my goal since I was 10 to grow my hair to the floor, so I've picked up good tips here and there. Though I can't believe it took me until now to find this community!

[Marz Hase]

I also wanna pop in and say that, in the end, everyone's hair is different and different routines work for different people. ^^ Three times during my hair journey, I have ditched olive oil and tried coconut oil because of all the posts I read about it. All three times, I was rudely reminded by my own hair that coconut oil just isn't for me. Crunchy, tangly, velcro length which result in loads of splits that have to be S&D'd, leaving me a spastic, frustrated mess. This last time, I had switched to CO and found EVOO too heavy, and hoped that coconut oil would finally be THE ONE for me. In the end, I went crawling back to my bottle of EVOO, begging for forgiveness, and just used a lot less of it.

It's the same with cones. Some people find cones to be EVIL on their hair(leaving cones was the best thing I had ever done, personally) while some people can't function without them.

In the end, less is more when it comes to a routine, you've just got to find your magic one. ^^ It does take time and a lot of experimentation(currently experimenting with CO!). Keep your chin up!

[macnik_the_6th]

Part of the reason that I think it's mineral build up is the color of my hair, which is orangey like everything else my water touches. I've lived in hard water my whole life, and been at this house 11 years.

I was also thinking that the clarifying DID help somewhat, as from BSL up, my hair feels fantastic! Everything from BSL down is not okay, though. Also, I've not noticed a change in the color of the lengths (still orange). That's why I though mineral buildup, as the lower parts had more time to accumulate deposits, and why I was thinking of chelanting. But as Alvrodul said, maybe I stripped off all protection, as well as minerals, and now my hair lost what coney protection it had, and now needs moisture.

It's actually gotten so bad that I've lost my ability to bun, both wet and dry. I'm settling for braided buns until I get this straightened out!

[Alvrodul]

Yes, that makes sense! However, now that I've jumped into trying too many new things at once, and had issues, I'm really hesitant to add one new thing onto an already changed routine!

Should I wait a few weeks, or just try it?



Also on my list to try!
If a SMT is on your list to try, I would suggest you just try it - use a non-coney conditioner that you know your hair likes, and add the honey (nuke it for a few seconds in the microwave first) and aloe and put on your hair. Let it marinate for at least half an hour, before rinsing it out. If lack of moisture is part of your problem, you ought to see an improvement immediately!

And baby steps is a good idea, generally. If you do a SMT today, wait a week or two to hit your hair with the next thing.

[Khiwanean]

Using a chelating shampoo would probably help, though I'd give your hair a break after all that clarifying - about a week. I know your ends will likely still feel awful in the meantime, but it will give your hair some time to recover.

[Ferine]

Quiick tip- Sally's carries a GREAT cheaper verision of Biolage's Conditioning Balm. It's made by GVP and $5 instead of $20+!


Ferine

[macnik_the_6th]

If a SMT is on your list to try, I would suggest you just try it - use a non-coney conditioner that you know your hair likes

An SMT will have to wait until I can buy aloe. Also my hair has never known a cone-free conditioner! :oops: But it is something I plan on trying, and have a few in-house for when that time comes. Should I use one of my regular cone ones instead of a cone-free one?

[macnik_the_6th]

Using a chelating shampoo would probably help, though I'd give your hair a break after all that clarifying - about a week. I know your ends will likely still feel awful in the meantime, but it will give your hair some time to recover.

Sounds like a plan, thanks! I found a quick fix for my ends - I sprayed very diluted Pantene on them when dry - and my slip is back! This will be my temporary rescue for the ends until I can chelate and/or SMT. I think I'll SMT first, and if that doesn't immediately help, move on to chelating (with some time in between).


Quiick tip- Sally's carries a GREAT cheaper verision of Biolage's Conditioning Balm. It's made by GVP and $5 instead of $20+!

Thank you for the tip! I just discovered there is a Sally's in my town! *does happy dance*

[Athena's Owl]

if you don't have any aloe, and you have a coney conditioner, skip the aloe *anyway.* just add the honey to your conditioner and do it that way. The aloe is the reason why you need a non coney conditioner, so the conditioner doesn't curdle when you mix the aloe in. I know, crazy right?

[jojo]

Oh, no, bleach would never touch my hair! :) That black streak is dyed. It's my "hair guilty pleasure", and about the most damaging thing I do to it. I get it re-dyed once every two years.

The blonde is natural, and I'm pretty sure it supposed to be lighter, but has been tinted orange by the iron in my water.

Part of the problem is I've already clarified! Or am I not doing it correctly?

my apologies, maybe another clarifying treatment. I found it so hard to find the perfect clarifying shampoo but find treseme deep shampoo -green bottle is really good and not as drying as some, follow this with a SMT works every time for me.

[macnik_the_6th]

if you don't have any aloe, and you have a coney conditioner, skip the aloe *anyway.* just add the honey to your conditioner and do it that way. The aloe is the reason why you need a non coney conditioner, so the conditioner doesn't curdle when you mix the aloe in. I know, crazy right?

Okay, so if I mix the honey and conditioner together, do I have to microwave it? I'm not terribly worried about the honey lightening my hair, as it should be lighter than it is anyway!

[Alvrodul]

Nuking the honey is recommended, in order to deactivate the natural peroxide in the honey. I don't usually bother to do it, even though I know that I really ought to. :p

[macnik_the_6th]

I have no problem letting it sit overnight, and not a lot of time in the morning to let it sit. My next normal washing would be Friday morning, so tomorrow night I'll wash my hair, mix one of my normal conditioners with honey and apply. Then wash out Friday morning.

I've read on the SMT thread that both Pantene and Dove do well with SMT. I normally use Dove Intensive Repair Conditioner and Pantene Medium/Thick Frizzy to Smooth, and I also have 3MM on hand (my hair loved it, but I haven't used it in a couple of years and just bought more). The ingredients of the Dove and Pantene are below. Do you have a recommendation on which conditioner I should use?

Dove Intensive Repair Conditioner Ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Dimethicone, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Lactic Acid, Behentrimonium Chloride, Glycerin, Fragrance (Parfum), Dipropylene Glycol, Amodimethicone, Petrolatum, Polyacrylate-1 Crosspolymer, Mineral Oil, Gluconolactone, Potassium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, Trehalose, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-7 Propylheptyl Ether, Cetrimonium Chloride, PEG-180M, Adipic Acid, Sodium Sulfate, PEG-150 Disterate, Methychloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 33 (CI 17200).

Pantene Medium/Thick Frizzy to Smooth Conditioner Ingredients:
Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Cetyl Alcohol, Bis-Aminopropyl Demethicone, Fragrance, Benzyl Alcohol, Disodium Edta, Panthenol, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Sodium Hydroxide, Methylchloroisothiasolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.

[macnik_the_6th]

Alright, so I bought some of CVS's green aloe gel (non-medicated, pretty similar to the clear stuff) and used it with 3MM and honey, in the classic amounts. I didn't warm it up, and put in for overnight. I had to braid my hair and bun it because I couldn't get it to stay in the shower cap! I rinsed and rinsed in the shower the next morning, did NOT add conditioner (just rinsed), and the results...

Immediately noticed a return of the slip! Not 100% back to normal, but a HUGE improvement! My ends are significantly less crunchy/rough, too! I definitely think I'll do another treatment!! Boy, were my bangs floofy when dry, though! :) I had to wet them down with diluted Pantene to keep them in check.

I've CWC'd with the Loreal Eversleek shampoo and my regular conditioners since the treatment, and my ends seem even better! I was getting so desperate with my rough, course ends that I was actually considering a trim! No longer!

[Alvrodul]

That's great! So now you know to give your hair moisture! ;)
Another couple of SMT's, and possibly a round or two more of clarifying, and the worst problems should be cured!:)

[C.H.]

ETA: taking a long time to dry is not necessarily a bad thing. You have iii hair so it's going to take longer anyway, but the less porous your hair is, the longer it will take to dry. Mine takes 8 hours and it's only half as long as yours!

*lightbulb* I wonder if that is why my hair dries so slowly. It always takes forever and it's not even particularly thick.

[StephanieB]

Coconut oil as a leave in can contain too much protein for some people and make the hair crunchy, I second trying it as a leave in with the tiniest bit.
Coconut oil is a fat; it has zero protein in it.




I am hearing that you're essentially using, bar soap, if I have it right on your hair, even on the temples and bangs.

Then you applied Extra Light Virgin Olive Oil to the hair, and wondered why the hair is getting kind of crunchy.

Sweetie, sweetie. Take it easy.


Coconut oil didn't do that to your hair...it's all the other stuff you did to the hair preceding the coconut oil that's resulting in this crazy hair.
I agree.

1) Clarify ONE TIME ONLY with clarifying shampoo. Shampoo the entire length of your hair to get ll the stuff out of it.
2) Then deep condition it.
3) Put a bit of coconut oil (jst enough to make your palms and fingers shine!) through just the length of your hair.
4) Then LEAVE IT ALONE for a while!


Try ONLY ONE thing at a time, and keep doing that one thing only for 5 or 6 weeks before you start trying another one thing. Otherwise, you are going to mess up your hair and scalp - possibly a lot, depending upon what things you try to do to it in too short a space of time.

For heaven's sake, leave your poor hair ALONE for a while!

[StephanieB]

I have read further and see that SMT works for you. Stick with that, then. :)

[SpinDance]

Good to hear that you are getting positive results with the SMT. Have you looked at Fox's Shea Butter Conditioner Cream (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=96208)?

Your comments about iron in your water tinting everything made me remember a similar thing that happened at my house some years ago. We live in a rural area with a cistern. Turned out that the tinting was caused by a crack in the cistern wall allowing ground water in. Had to replace the cistern. Let me tell you, it is so nice to have clear, safe water!