Curl or frizz?

[jfeg116]

My hair can never make up its mind as to what it wants to be- and I don't know what its problem is, haha.

I don't know how to explain it- when I brush my hair most mornings it's like cotton candy- poofy and thick and refuses to be styled...so I put it in a bun to hide its ugliness and am jealous all day of the girls with the nice straight hair and their cute little tendrils...then when I take my hair out at night it's perfect (well, better, at least) and I hate it even more for being mean to me, haha.

Is this a curl problem or a frizz problem? Or do I need a wider tooth comb, maybe? Or a head transplant? :confused:

[denzelswifey86]

Its probably not a frizz problem ! you should use a comb instead of a brush for one thing since you have curly hair! try sleeping with a Bun - and taking it down in the morning and finger combing it! you can spray a little detangler if you want before finger combing it! you'll be amazed with the diffrance ! :) try it

[SpinDance]

I'll second the suggestion to ditch the brush. A wide tooth comb or even just a hair fork, and your fingers are probably all you really need to detangle. I'm only wavy and with the recent (today) exception of trying a BBB for distributing oil, I wouldn't go near a brush on a bet. I'd never expect to detangle with one.

Perhaps a dampening with water/conditioner and letting it dry in curls would work better for you than disarranging the curls with a brush?

[FluffSpider]

Most curlies don't brush at all. they detangle/comb when wet then leave it alone for the rest of the wash interval. MAYBE they will finger comb it but that's it. Tampering with it disrupts your curl pattern which means the curlies are still curly, but sticking out in different directions-> POOF. This also applies to sockbun curls, bee butt bun curls etc.-which means straight haired people which style their hair into curls CAN and probably WILL ruin them by brushing/over-combing.

[chahuahuas]

The problem is when you get near your poor hair with that brush! You need to go throw it away immediately. If your hair is curly or particularly wavy, you shouldn't ever comb or brush your hair while dry. If you feel the need, you can comb it with a wide toothed come in the shower to detangle, but I just use my fingers. They're much more gentle with my tangles.

Ha, fluffspider, I see you were just telling her the same thing. Good pointer on not brushing artificially curled straight hair. I've found out recently that the same thing applies when you straighten curly hair: my hair wants the brush BAD when I straighten it.

[jfeg116]

Thanks, guys. I had a friend in high school with Felicity-type curly hair and she was always trying to get me to go curly with her (probably because I was the next curliest after her and she needed someone to commiserate with, haha) and now I wish I had listened! My mother has pin-straight hair so she's never been able to help with my hair issues- I got all my curl from my dad so he's useless, haha.

My mother always used a brush on me growing up, starting at the bottom and working her way up to minimize tangles, but she always just plowed through any tangles she found. I do the tangles with my hands, now, much less pain!

Thanks again :)

[Anje]

Most curlies get crazy frizz when they brush their hair. Here's photographic evidence. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=7003)

Just fingercomb your hair in the morning. Maybe put it in a bun at night so it's perfect in the morning when you take it out.

If you look around, you'll find all sorts of specific curly-directed advice. NaturallyCurly and the Curly Girl Method are good off-LHC resources, too. Typically, you'll want to keep your washes hydrating (CWC or CO in many instances), detangle your hair while it's conditioner-loaded, use a leave-in like gel or more of your normal conditioner, and generally not brush except perhaps before washing. Using a satiny pillowcase or a satin sleep bonnet can also help by reducing how much your hair comes out of its curl formation to make frizz overnight.

Hope that helps.

[jfeg116]

Hahahaha, oh my gosh, Anje, that's exactly what my hair looks like...oh, my- no wonder my head and I don't get along.

[SpinDance]

You realize this means we'll require before and after pictures, right, jfeg116? -evil grin- Can't wait to see what happens after you do curly stuff!

[jfeg116]

Haha, sure- if you think you can handle the horror.

[Anje]

Yeah, take before and after photos! We're going to enjoy this.

[spidermom]

A really good way to bring out curls is comb conditioner through in the shower and then let your hair do its thing - don't comb, don't brush, don't even run your fingers through it except to use a little gel or curl cream, which can help a lot with curl definition.

[jfeg116]

You're going to have to wait until tomorrow for the pictures- I don't let the poof be seen, let alone photographed :)

[SpinDance]

How can we have proper before and after pictures without the before? ;)

[Sunshineliz]

Yes, need pictures of BEFORE and after.:D

And remember that it can take a while of following curly routines before full curl formation and definition is acheived. (In other words you first attempt will look nice, but after a month or so it'll look even better)

[Fairlight63]

I have the same problem! Will be watching this thread intently.
I was wondering what is your favorite shampoo, cond. for curly hair? Is cones OK in cond.? I have tried no cones, but could not even get my fingers through my hair, it was horrible! I had to put oil on it to calm it down.

[jfeg116]

Of course you need before pictures- but there are no combs in my house so tomorrow morning will be the real-deal "before" picture before I go shopping :)

My shampoo...I tried the new Cone-free Garnier but I'm not so much a fan- didn't do anything that made me think cones were the things screwing up my life...I do enjoy the curly-type Head and Shoulders as it soothes my itchy scalp. I also used to like Pantene until its new line got all negative sounding ('Hydrating Curls' is now called 'Frizzy to Smooth'. Really? Unnecessary.) ...I've been thinking about trying Herbal Essences again, I used to be a fan of theirs but I can't remember why, haha. I used their "None of Your Frizzness" a little while ago, and it was great but I could only use it 3 times a week or so or my hair was disssgusting greasy-weighted down awful and I'm easily confused so trying to figure out whether or not I could use it was annoying to me.

[curlymarcia]

Hi, when my mom (who is 1c) used to brush my hair it really looked like cotton candy. Now I just finger comb while wet and put some oil and sometimes flax seed gel and have really curly hair (much better than the frizz). One of my classmates have much more frizz than me, and after watching my hair she discovered she was curly haired.
P.S. I agree with spidermom, don't touch it while it's drying.

[chahuahuas]

I don't know about conditioner yet, but for shampoo I just use California Baby shampoo & bodywash. It has no sulfates, and its tear free, so its incredibly gentle on your hair. Plus, you can use it all over and it's gentle on your skin!

http://www.californiababy.com/super-sensitive-shampoo-bodywash-8-5-oz.html

[Sunshineliz]

Of course you need before pictures- but there are no combs in my house so tomorrow morning will be the real-deal "before" picture before I go shopping :)

My shampoo...I tried the new Cone-free Garnier but I'm not so much a fan- didn't do anything that made me think cones were the things screwing up my life...I do enjoy the curly-type Head and Shoulders as it soothes my itchy scalp. I also used to like Pantene until its new line got all negative sounding ('Hydrating Curls' is now called 'Frizzy to Smooth'. Really? Unnecessary.) ...I've been thinking about trying Herbal Essences again, I used to be a fan of theirs but I can't remember why, haha. I used their "None of Your Frizzness" a little while ago, and it was great but I could only use it 3 times a week or so or my hair was disssgusting greasy-weighted down awful and I'm easily confused so trying to figure out whether or not I could use it was annoying to me.

Of course you'll have to find what works for you, but if you meant Garnier Pure and Clean I HATED that and have heard many people have problems with it.

Many people have said that curlies need sulfate-free shampoo or else conditioner wash. I've heard lots of good things about people who conditioner wash with Suave or V05 (cheap seems to work well, who knew?) but of course YMMV.

[jfeg116]

Allllright...you asked for it:


This is how I woke up this morning, sticking to my usual routine:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/jfeg116/IMG_0550.jpg



This is after I've awakened the moster:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/jfeg116/IMG_0553.jpg

It basically doubles in size, haha.

I just got a wide-toothed comb, a satin sleep cap, and some frizz serum...we'll see what happens tomorrow :D

[Sunshineliz]

Those are some pretty curls--do NOT brush them ever again!:D

I'd love to see what CO washing and airdrying with some Aloe Vera Gel scrunched in would do to it.:eyebrows:

[chahuahuas]

Allllright...you asked for it:


This is how I woke up this morning, sticking to my usual routine:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/jfeg116/IMG_0550.jpg



OMGosh! Your curls in the middle are bottom are VERY shiny. You're going to have really good results! Your color and condition is marvelous.

I don't know how much a satin sleep cap will do for curly hair. The anti-frizz serum will help, but my suggestion is to go all-out curly in your styling routine and use predominately curling gel. I'm afraid if you just use the serum, your hair might not curl evenly all over, and I'm not a fan of that style myself (flat on top and curly on bottom.)

Like I said before, I suggest getting skipping shampoo, or getting a gentle non-sulfate shampoo (baby shampoo is a cheap option.) I think the most effective way to combat frizzy curls is to use tons of conditioner, and leave some in the ends/bottom portion at the end. Put gel in your hair while its still soaking wet, then scrunch your hair upside down to get your hair not so drippy. To dry it, use a microfiber towel or a t-shirt, scrunching upside down again (all the scrunching gets good volume at the crown, and lots of curls!) Then air dry and you're all done!

Oh, and if you find you the top of your hair is still flat, use clips to add volume.

[Anje]

Yeah, rather than frizz serum, I'd suggest simply not rinsing all the conditioner out of your hair when you wash, and make sure you don't rub your hair when you dry it. (Ideally, you'll get the best curls by drip-drying, but that sounds crazy to me. Towel turban is better than rubbing it for all hair, though.) Fingercomb a bit, but limit the handling once it's dry.

The sleep cap is to just keep the frizz down on non-wash mornings. Don't be surprised if you wake up with it flung across the room a few times, though. It takes some practice to be able to sleep in them, so keep trying for a week or two.

[chahuahuas]

Yeah, rather than frizz serum, I'd suggest simply not rinsing all the conditioner out of your hair when you wash, and make sure you don't rub your hair when you dry it. (Ideally, you'll get the best curls by drip-drying, but that sounds crazy to me. Towel turban is better than rubbing it for all hair, though.) Fingercomb a bit, but limit the handling once it's dry.

The sleep cap is to just keep the frizz down on non-wash mornings. Don't be surprised if you wake up with it flung across the room a few times, though. It takes some practice to be able to sleep in them, so keep trying for a week or two.

Usually I just pineapple my hair at night, it gives it good volume at the crown in the morning. Less expensive/less trouble than a sleep cap, so maybe worth a shot :shrug:

I don't think that drip drying wouldn't give the best curls, since the hair would be so flat at the top (unless you're okay with that.) And what kind of towel/what technique do you use to "towel turban"? I used to use a regular old towel around my head and wrapped it like this: http://www.wikihow.com/Wrap-Your-Hair-in-a-Towel , but I found that way would pull out my curls. Also I think the regular ol' bath towel I used would frizz up my hair. I find the method of "plopping" with a T-shirt is similar, but more effective, or just scrunching with a t-shirt. (plopping doesn't work for me, since my hair is too thick and it never dries.)

[jfeg116]

My plan is to CWC tonight, and comb it through while I'm in the shower, serum, then plop it for a couple hours then put on the cap before I go to bed because it tangles so easily and takes so long to dry I figured it'd kind of...keep it in line...until I got up and gave it a pick through if it needs it...I'm very excited!!! My poofy days are OVER.

[chahuahuas]

My plan is to CWC tonight, and comb it through while I'm in the shower, serum, then plop it for a couple hours then put on the cap before I go to bed because it tangles so easily and takes so long to dry I figured it'd kind of...keep it in line...until I got up and gave it a pick through if it needs it...I'm very excited!!! My poofy days are OVER.


Hmmm how do you cap girls tuck your hair up there? Do you turn upside down and put it in similar to when you plop? If so, that sounds like a nice way to get voluminous curls. I still recommend gel, but maybe you don't want super-ringlet-y like I go for :)

[Sunshineliz]

My plan is to CWC tonight, and comb it through while I'm in the shower, serum, then plop it for a couple hours then put on the cap before I go to bed because it tangles so easily and takes so long to dry I figured it'd kind of...keep it in line...until I got up and gave it a pick through if it needs it...I'm very excited!!! My poofy days are OVER.

Good luck and don't be afraid to keep trying new things to find your best results. (But give routines enough time to know if they really work.;))

[emelnd]

This thread sounds like it would help me too. I just stopped using sulfate shampoos and a brush. I have a comb now. I co-washed my hair yesterday, left some conditioner in, and it looked much curlier after. Even though my scalp felt ok, the hair felt greasy to me today, so I used a shampoo bar, and didn't leave any conditioner in. Now my scalp feels a little dry.

How do you pineapple hair at night? And how do you use pins for volume? The top of my head is really flat, and I don't like that.

[emelnd]

I meant clips. How do you clip to add volume?

[jfeg116]

How do you clip to add volume?

I second that question.

And my problem with gel & scrunching is for some reason when I try that my hair separates into very very very thin curls- probably between 5 or 10 strands. Is that because of the brushing, do you think? My straight-haired friends scrunch like champs where I actually do have curly hair and look ridiculous, haha. I tried plopping before and I liked it but it drove me nuts when I would brush all the curls out (oops...) so I figured plopping into the cap would be easier to sleep in than the towel.

[chahuahuas]

Well good news for ya'll, I just showered, clipped, and took pictures! Stay tuned, they'll be up in my album soon.

If your hair is separating, maybe you aren't adding the gel and scrunching when it is soaking wet? Or do you mean you brush out your gelled & scrunched curls? If the latter is the case, then you definitely need to try again!

You mentioned the towel, so again, I find that regular towels rough up my hair, which means instant frizz.

[suraque]

I only comb my hair when it's wet.

if I comb or brush it while dry... all I get is a frizzy mess. :(

[chahuahuas]

Pictures posted!! and lots of info on my routine in the caption. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=8222&pictureid=107353

[jfeg116]

If your hair is separating, maybe you aren't adding the gel and scrunching when it is soaking wet? Or do you mean you brush out your gelled & scrunched curls? If the latter is the case, then you definitely need to try again!


It's been a couple months since I gave up...I feel like I would get out of the shower and scrunch, but as soon as the gel hit my hair it would separate, and I'd end up brushing it out because the little stringies looked odd. I also tried it with Garnier's "Wonder Waves" spray, and the same thing happened. Maybe it's the alcohol?

[RitaCeleste]

Yeah, this thread inspired me. I got so mad at my frizz I added some oil, no help, I added some conditioner, no help. So I rewet it and brushed it while wet and then switched to finger combing. I got the stringy look too. I kept finger combing it until it looked less stringy. But it still looks stringy, probably because I didn't let it clump while it was wet, I finger combed and separated it while it was drying. I can't quite stand the idea of not separating it to dry it faster.:confused:

[Roseate]

I feel like I would get out of the shower and scrunch, but as soon as the gel hit my hair it would separate

Personally, I can only avoid this problem by scrunching in gel to soaking wet hair. I don't actually get out of the shower at all to do it, I am adding the gel straight into my sopping wet hair: as I scrunch in the gel I am scrunching out water. I wrap my hair in a flour-sack towel to get out more water, but only after I have scrunched in my product. I do the same with my leave-in conditioner alone if I'm not using gel (which is most of the time).

I was inspired to try this by this method (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/81176-super-soaker-method-promoting-clumps-updated-video-link.html) over on NaturallyCurly.com; I don't do the whole rigamarole she does, but the bit about adding water to the hair to encourage clumps made me think I should just do it while my hair was already super wet, and it works!.

[chahuahuas]

Yeah, this thread inspired me. I got so mad at my frizz I added some oil, no help, I added some conditioner, no help. So I rewet it and brushed it while wet and then switched to finger combing. I got the stringy look too. I kept finger combing it until it looked less stringy. But it still looks stringy, probably because I didn't let it clump while it was wet, I finger combed and separated it while it was drying. I can't quite stand the idea of not separating it to dry it faster.:confused:

Yea, if you have frizz troubles, definitely try NOT combing or brushing unless it's soaked with conditioner. Combing when dry-ing is probably a bad idea too. Add your serums/extra conditioner/gel when it's soaked, it helps to evenly distribute the product and it allows your hair to follow it's natural pattern/curl/wave, and it allows it to form nice thick sections of this pattern. You can always separate these sections into thinner curls/waves after it dries, but you can't put them back together!

[chahuahuas]

Personally, I can only avoid this problem by scrunching in gel to soaking wet hair. I don't actually get out of the shower at all to do it, I am adding the gel straight into my sopping wet hair: as I scrunch in the gel I am scrunching out water. I wrap my hair in a flour-sack towel to get out more water, but only after I have scrunched in my product. I do the same with my leave-in conditioner alone if I'm not using gel (which is most of the time).

I was inspired to try this by this method (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/81176-super-soaker-method-promoting-clumps-updated-video-link.html) over on NaturallyCurly.com; I don't do the whole rigamarole she does, but the bit about adding water to the hair to encourage clumps made me think I should just do it while my hair was already super wet, and it works!.

Hahaha wow, Roseate, I was just typing up this same exact advice as you posted this! Yay for nice thick clumps of soaked curls. As my stylist/ my CG handbook told me: if you like the way your hair looks when it's wet, you'll like the way it looks when it dries. So if you want to retain that nice frizz-free look your curls have when wet, you shouldn't touch them while they're drying!

[chahuahuas]

How do you pineapple hair at night? And how do you use clips for volume? The top of my head is really flat, and I don't like that.

Well, I showed you guys the clips in my album, but I realized I didn't tell you what pineapple-ings is! It's basically just a really, really high pony tail, a pony tail at the crown of your head (like a unicorn horn) where you gently tie it up upside down. From the back, it looks like a pineapple :) I find that it can sometimes stretch my curls out a bit (especially if I tie it up tighter), but the added volume makes up for it in my experience. Plus, since you're tying it up near your crown, most of the curls you stretch out are in the underneath layer. That means the curls on top stay intact, as well as the curls at the ends of your underlayers, and all that really changes is the underlayers get longer! So your style looks more voluminous and longer :) My hair is so long that sometimes when I sleep, I pull my hair through halfway into a sortof loop or huge bun-thing. That way I don't lay on it, and It doesn't bother my boyfriend.

Here's some good instructions: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/hairstyles/how-to-pineapple-your-hair

[denzelswifey86]

jfeg116 you should not brush your hair after the gel - that sperates the smooth strands into a crazy frizz! also brushing it with a gel on is a big no no. I ruined my hair doing that and i was using a comb! did you use a brush? you can serisously cause ur ends to break! be careful and gentle :) after the gel just leave it alone it will form the curl :) n btw your before picture is not that bad! :) you just need to avoid brushs like the plague!

[jfeg116]

Interesting thing- my hair is like, crazy mondo strong. I've never had a split end or any sort of breakage ever in my life. I had a friend once swear it was impossible for someone to not have any split ends and she spent an hour and a half going through each strand before she gave up.

There may have been some mistreated bits during those years before they stopped putting the metal thingies on rubber bands...or, you know, a strand snapping because it got seriously stuck in something, but in general my hair is seriously resilient, if frizzy.

I mean, I only blow dry my bangs, and I straighten maybe 4 times a year but I dye pretty regularly since I started graying at 20 and I'm still only 23. The only shampoo I've ever had any serious damage from was called "Flex" and I don't think they even make it anymore because it was seriously brutal stuff. Like, discount, scraped-off-the-shoes-of-the-factory-workers-at-a-crappy-shampoo-factory brutal.

I've discovered through the past few days on these boards that I've actually got pretty great hair, I just never learned how to take care of it properly. It may actually become the ONE part of my body that gives me absolutely no issues at all- and I could use one of those, haha.

[jfeg116]

Okay...so...I over-serum-ed last night so the first try was kind of an oily mess...


But I won't give up!

[layla<33]

Most curlies don't brush at all. they detangle/comb when wet then leave it alone for the rest of the wash interval. MAYBE they will finger comb it but that's it. Tampering with it disrupts your curl pattern which means the curlies are still curly, but sticking out in different directions-> POOF. This also applies to sockbun curls, bee butt bun curls etc.-which means straight haired people which style their hair into curls CAN and probably WILL ruin them by brushing/over-combing.

i was about to say the same thing! lol

[C.H.]

The thing I don't get, though, with scrunching and plopping is...isn't that disturbing your curls? I get totally not touching it and letting it basically drip dry--that's simple enough. But too much touching/moving/manipulating is going to create frizz. I'm just not sure where you draw the line between helpful plopping/scrunching/product application and frizz-inducing manipulation.

I'm not sure that I need to encourage the curls per se, but I like the idea of some kind of minimal towel drying to at least give the lengthy air drying process a little head start. Or is plopping and scrunching meant to increase definition as opposed to encourage curl?

Just seems like there an odd grey here between when you're finished rinsing in the shower and you actually stop touching it completely and move on to air drying. I know what works best will vary from person to person, but I think I can experiment more effectively if I understand what these steps are meant to accomplish and when I might be overdoing it.

[emelnd]

Chahuahuas. thank you for the clipping and pinappleing info! I have to try both.

[chahuahuas]

The thing I don't get, though, with scrunching and plopping is...isn't that disturbing your curls? I get totally not touching it and letting it basically drip dry--that's simple enough. But too much touching/moving/manipulating is going to create frizz. I'm just not sure where you draw the line between helpful plopping/scrunching/product application and frizz-inducing manipulation.

I'm not sure that I need to encourage the curls per se, but I like the idea of some kind of minimal towel drying to at least give the lengthy air drying process a little head start. Or is plopping and scrunching meant to increase definition as opposed to encourage curl?

Just seems like there an odd grey here between when you're finished rinsing in the shower and you actually stop touching it completely and move on to air drying. I know what works best will vary from person to person, but I think I can experiment more effectively if I understand what these steps are meant to accomplish and when I might be overdoing it.

Let me address scrunching first:


-The CG method advises you to put product in and scrunch it up to distribute when its sopping, soaking wet. The water is helping your hair stay in clumps and keeps the curls together, preventing the curls from separating & forming frizz (I'm sure you know by now, frizz is just curly hairs that separate from the main ringlets and take on a life of their own.) So basically during this first step, where you're putting your products in in the shower, the massive amounts of water in your hair protect your hair from over-manipulation during scrunching.

-Next, you squeeze some of this water out, but there is now product in there to keep your hair together during this bout of scrunching.

-Then you scrunch out some more moisture with a microfiber towel or t shirt (regular towels rough up the hairs and cause frizz), and the smoothness of these materials will help your hair from getting roughed up or over-manipulated.

-After you squeeze out the rest of the moisture with your microfiber/tshirt, you can lightly scrunch, but you're right, you could possibly over-manipulate at this point. It shouldn't be too much of a problem, though, if you only scrunch lightly.

Scrunching pushes the hair up into its coil, like when you push a slinky or a spring together. This makes the hair coil up into a nice bouncy ringlet. If you do a good job with scrunching, your curl will not be a stretched out as usual, since you pushed it into a nice coil.

Plopping does similar things. Gravity pulls your curls out, and with plopping you are fighting it by coiling up your curls and pressing them against your head in the towel turban. Just think about how people make pincurls: they coil their hair up tightly against their head, and when they unpin it, the curl stretches out, kinda like a slinky.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rWdThD85Q5k/Sx7xznWJPqI/AAAAAAAABB8/KW1anT2fZUE/s400/tumblr_ku70rkhepy1qzzkmso1_500.jpg

I've found that plopping doesn't do a very good job of drying my hair, because my hair is so thick. You'll have to try it out for yourself to see how you like it. Some girl sleep in their plopped turban, so maybe you could dry it that way if it's overnight. If you want to dry it a little.

Basically plopping is for encouraging the curl, in my experience. Scrunching is mainly to encourage the curl. It also helps it to dry it out by squeezing out the excess water with your hands, and it does the most drying when you use a microfiber towel or t shirt to scrunch it.

To sum it up, if you aren't looking to encourage the curl, you could skip plopping, but definitely scrunch out the wetness with your hands & scrunch it dry with smooth material.

[C.H.]

Let me address scrunching first:

-The CG method advises you to put product in and scrunch it up to distribute when its sopping, soaking wet. The water is helping your hair stay in clumps and keeps the curls together, preventing the curls from separating & forming frizz (I'm sure you know by now, frizz is just curly hairs that separate from the main ringlets and take on a life of their own.) So basically during this first step, where you're putting your products in in the shower, the massive amounts of water in your hair protect your hair from over-manipulation during scrunching.

-Next, you squeeze some of this water out, but there is now product in there to keep your hair together during this bout of scrunching.

-Then you scrunch out some more moisture with a microfiber towel or t shirt (regular towels rough up the hairs and cause frizz), and the smoothness of these materials will help your hair from getting roughed up or over-manipulated.

-After you squeeze out the rest of the moisture with your microfiber/tshirt, you can lightly scrunch, but you're right, you could possibly over-manipulate at this point. It shouldn't be too much of a problem, though, if you only scrunch lightly.
Scrunching pushes the hair up into its coil, like when you push a slinky or a spring together. This makes the hair coil up into a nice bouncy ringlet. If you do a good job with scrunching, your curl will not be a stretched out as usual, since you pushed it into a nice coil.

Plopping does similar things. Gravity pulls your curls out, and with plopping you are fighting it by coiling up your curls and pressing them against your head in the towel turban. Just think about how people make pincurls: they coil their hair up tightly against their head, and when they unpin it, the curl stretches out, kinda like a slinky.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rWdThD85Q5k/Sx7xznWJPqI/AAAAAAAABB8/KW1anT2fZUE/s400/tumblr_ku70rkhepy1qzzkmso1_500.jpg

I've found that plopping doesn't do a very good job of drying my hair, because my hair is so thick. You'll have to try it out for yourself to see how you like it. Some girl sleep in their plopped turban, so maybe you could dry it that way if it's overnight. If you want to dry it a little.

Basically plopping is for encouraging the curl, in my experience. Scrunching is mainly to encourage the curl. It also helps it to dry it out by squeezing out the excess water with your hands, and it does the most drying when you use a microfiber towel or t shirt to scrunch it.

To sum it up, if you aren't looking to encourage the curl, you could skip plopping, but definitely scrunch out the wetness with your hands & scrunch it dry with smooth material.

This is so helpful, thank you! I understand this process much better now. Knowing what each step is meant to achieve will definitely help me experiment effectively. So as far as product goes, it sounds like water + leave-in promotes clumping and some sort of gel will maintain definition and allow you to do some plopping and scrunching frizz-free.

I'll have to look into further the types of leave-ins and gels that have been working for people. I personally prefer to use the fewest products possible and I'm hoping not to become reliant on some pricey custart, so to keep it simple I will probably start with using my regular conditioner as a leave-in and then perhaps aloe vera gel. Something, shall we say "stronger" might be in order, though.

As far as plopping, I will say that a lot of my hair left to its own devices tends to be strong s-curls turning to ringlets only towards the ends. Perhaps plopping would encourage less S's and more spirals.

[chahuahuas]

Cool, CH :) Glad to be of service. And happy to see that my pinhead-freak head helped someone. All it does for my sister is make her laugh at me :lol:

[Athena's Owl]

Yeah, this thread inspired me. I got so mad at my frizz I added some oil, no help, I added some conditioner, no help. So I rewet it and brushed it while wet and then switched to finger combing. I got the stringy look too. I kept finger combing it until it looked less stringy. But it still looks stringy, probably because I didn't let it clump while it was wet, I finger combed and separated it while it was drying. I can't quite stand the idea of not separating it to dry it faster.:confused:

the finger combing is what's making it stringy. wet it, add your leave-in products, comb it into the part and fall you want, leave it alone.

It takes longer to dry, but the visual results are much better. I often point floor fans at my hair (from 4 feet away, fan speed on low) to dry my hair faster.

I also use a heck of a lot of gel on my hair, so it dries stiff, and then gently smooth over my hair with may hands to release the gel hold, and that gives good clumps.

[C.H.]

the finger combing is what's making it stringy. wet it, add your leave-in products, comb it into the part and fall you want, leave it alone.

It takes longer to dry, but the visual results are much better. I often point floor fans at my hair (from 4 feet away, fan speed on low) to dry my hair faster.

I also use a heck of a lot of gel on my hair, so it dries stiff, and then gently smooth over my hair with may hands to release the gel hold, and that gives good clumps.

It's amazing how hard it is not to touch soaking wet hair long enough for it to dry. There's always the temptation to adjust it or smooth it--just a little...It's totally contrary to human nature in my opinion.

BTW, which gel do you use? I see L.A. Looks sport gel is cheap and has good reviews overat nc.com.

[chahuahuas]

Athena's Owl says she just smooths over her hair with her hands to break the gel cast, but CG has my favorite method for this: when my hair is completely dry, I love turning my head upside down and rub/shake the roots of my hair at the crown of my head, with my fingers. It gives me awesome volume and the curls separate quite a bit. Plus it's fun and it feels good, like you're giving yourself a mini scalp masssage in the middle of the day!

[jfeg116]

Hoollllly crap I missed pages of talking! And got majorly confused, sorry.

Chahuahuas- I seriously thought you were rubbing pineapple on your hair when you said pineappleing the first time, hahaha. And "if you like the way your hair looks when it's wet, you'll like the way it looks when it dries." is the greatest thing I've ever hard. Thanks soooo much for the great advice!

[C.H.]

Hahaha, no no no, I'm not scrunching now...I just meant in the past when I was scrunching. What I'm doing now is just a plop- no touching.

Oh, that comment wasn't directed at you. :) Just a general concept I had been wondering/confused about.

[jfeg116]

Yeah, that was me being stupid- sorry about that. I figured it out eventually, haha.

[jfeg116]

Alright, so today was only my second try but it's still separating- and I haven't touched my brush since I took the picture, I swear!

Last night I CWC'd, and combed my hair out in the shower- covered in conditioner. I put on just a little of the anti-frizz serum (I went overboard the night before...) and made sure I had 20 or so perfect, frizz free curls that made smooth, half-dollar sized, lovely ringlets as I plopped them into my sleep cap.

I wake up...take off the cap...and a million little 3 strand curlicues pour out in all directions. Grrr....

I just want hair that hangs...

[Sunshineliz]

Alright, so today was only my second try but it's still separating- and I haven't touched my brush since I took the picture, I swear!

Last night I CWC'd, and combed my hair out in the shower- covered in conditioner. I put on just a little of the anti-frizz serum (I went overboard the night before...) and made sure I had 20 or so perfect, frizz free curls that made smooth, half-dollar sized, lovely ringlets as I plopped them into my sleep cap.

I wake up...take off the cap...and a million little 3 strand curlicues pour out in all directions. Grrr....

I just want hair that hangs...

Perhaps gel would work better?

[RitaCeleste]

Someone gave me a recipe for more flexible hair, a little honey like a table spoon or two and enough olive oil to cover the hair maybe mix it with some conditioner to help it go on smoother. She left hers on overnight. The longest I've tried it was about three hours but it worked to make my hair sorta hang better. It still won't clump and I got a million strands that look all windblown, but it hangs. lol

[chahuahuas]

Alright, so today was only my second try but it's still separating- and I haven't touched my brush since I took the picture, I swear!

Last night I CWC'd, and combed my hair out in the shower- covered in conditioner. I put on just a little of the anti-frizz serum (I went overboard the night before...) and made sure I had 20 or so perfect, frizz free curls that made smooth, half-dollar sized, lovely ringlets as I plopped them into my sleep cap.

I wake up...take off the cap...and a million little 3 strand curlicues pour out in all directions. Grrr....

I just want hair that hangs...

I would not recommend plopping your hair in that case (and what you did with your sleep cap seems to be really similar to plopping with a t shirt: you basically are pouring your hair upside down into a head covering.) Plopping gives tons of volume and helps your curls fight gravity. If you want your hair to hang, you really don't want to be fighting gravity. Gravity is your friend. I know how you feel, I used to have bobbed hair and my hair absolutely needed to dry when my head was upright; sleeping in my hair would be a disaster, since gravity wasn't pulling it down as it dried.

Is there a way for you to let your hair air-dry in the morning after you wake up, or just shower earlier in the evening so you can be sure it before you go to sleep? Also, I don't think anti-frizz serum is enough to keep your curl clumps intact. Serum is kindof slippery, I think you need some cream or gel to keep the curls 'glued together.' That's been my secret lately: all the product I've been using has been making my hair REALLY shiny, and it's been keeping it in really thick ringlets.

It's no problem if your ringlets come out too thick, since you can easily to separate them in half with my fingers (my CG-trained stylist taught me that!) You can go from clumpier to thinner curls, but you can't go from thinner to clumpier curls, so I definitely suggest using as much hair 'glue' (cream/gel + the conditioner underneath it) as you are comfortable with. Eventually, all the product can start weigh your hair down, but I think curly hair can stand to have a little more build-up than straight hair, anyway. I think a little bit of build-up can keep the curls from going wild. Also, curly hair tends to be drier, so it will soak up the creams you give it.

[Roseate]

I don't think anti-frizz serum is enough to keep your curl clumps intact. Serum is kindof slippery, I think you need some cream or gel to keep the curls 'glued together.'

I second this, serum is bad news for me as it actually makes my hair slip apart rather than stay together in a nice shape. Even just a creamy leave-in conditioner is better, if you don't want to use gel. You can even use a dab of your rinse-out conditioner for this purpose; some of those work better than others.

Also, when I want to sleep on damp hair in a way that encourages it down rather than out, I put a tshirt over my head without plopping. Basically pull it over my head as if I was taking the shirt off, but leave it there. So the neckband is around my hairline, and the body of the shirt hangs down my back full of hair. Funny looking, but effective!

[chahuahuas]

I second this, serum is bad news for me as it actually makes my hair slip apart rather than stay together in a nice shape. Even just a creamy leave-in conditioner is better, if you don't want to use gel. You can even use a dab of your rinse-out conditioner for this purpose; some of those work better than others.

Also, when I want to sleep on damp hair in a way that encourages it down rather than out, I put a tshirt over my head without plopping. Basically pull it over my head as if I was taking the shirt off, but leave it there. So the neckband is around my hairline, and the body of the shirt hangs down my back full of hair. Funny looking, but effective!

Yes, I think the leave-in conditioner does *help* to keep my hair together, as well as the cream I put on it. That's why I only put a little bit of gel in it (in comparison to the creamier products, that is... it's still plenty, considering my massive amounts of hair.) I would still suggest at least a little gel though, especially if you are going to stretch out your washes. If I just use cream and/or conditioner after I shower, my curls are less defined, and they fuzz up after I sleep on it just once. Which is terrible, its like I have the extra volume from the curls, but it just looks like frizz since I lose the definition :(

My curls fuzzed up a bit like that today, since I used a ton of creamy products and less gel than usual, making them softer and not stiff enough to hold up for a good couple days. Pineapple-ing usually helps to fix my fuzz though, since it pulls my hair back to get rid of my "halo" of frizz on top, and the curls at the ends of my hair stay intact.

Maybe you don't have to worry about your hair fuzzing up as much as I do, Roseate, since your hair is a tad wavier than mine. (I'm pretty sure that tighter ringlets = more prone to frizz) So my advice on the gel is mostly for people with my level of curl.

Great idea on the non-plopped t-shirt though!!! I'll have to remember that. I think that could be helpful for when I want to go to sleep as soon as I get out of the shower, so I don't get my pillow all soaked. It sucks to sleep on a wet pillow.

Speaking of my level of curl... Do you guys think that I accurately typed my curl pattern? is it actually a 3b/c and not a 3a/b?

[emelnd]

Clipping my hair really helped with the top. The pineapple didn't... I woke up with the hair band on one side on my head, and my hair as messed up as ever lol.

I co-washed my hair today again. I then put a whole bunch of aloe+flax seed gel I made on, then scrunched. Then plopped into a microfiber towel. It clumped together a lot less than it usually does, but the tops came out much less flat, and wavier. The ends don't do the loop thing as much, but that's ok.

Here's a before picture, before I started this whole co-wash thing, right after I hendigoed:
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee515/emelnd/IMG_0805.jpg

And here's now:
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee515/emelnd/after2-1.jpg

The top is a lot less flat now... I had more wave before I hendigoed. I ordered some amla, and have some leftover henna. I will try mixing those and putting that on. I don't mind if my hair goes more red. Has anyone tried amla, does it help?

[emelnd]

Chahuahuas, I don't know about the curve pattern level, but your hair is very pretty. Is mine accurate? 2a/2b?

[chahuahuas]

Clipping my hair really helped with the top. The pineapple didn't... I woke up with the hair band on one side on my head, and my hair as messed up as ever lol.

I co-washed my hair today again. I then put a whole bunch of aloe+flax seed gel I made on, then scrunched. Then plopped into a microfiber towel. It clumped together a lot less than it usually does, but the tops came out much less flat, and wavier. The ends don't do the loop thing as much, but that's ok.

Here's a before picture, before I started this whole co-wash thing, right after I hendigoed:
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee515/emelnd/IMG_0805.jpg

And here's now:
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee515/emelnd/after2-1.jpg

The top is a lot less flat now... I had more wave before I hendigoed. I ordered some amla, and have some leftover henna. I will try mixing those and putting that on. I don't mind if my hair goes more red. Has anyone tried amla, does it help?

Did you leave plenty of the conditioner in, so your hair is coated with it, before you put the gel in?

And maybe you could experiment with some commercially made curling gels or creams to see how your hair likes them. (some are marketed as 'organic,' so you could go that route if you are worried about it). I've been meaning to try some natural gels myself, so I think I'll try aloe soon. Maybe we could compare notes on natural vs commercial gels :)

[Roseate]

Maybe you don't have to worry about your hair fuzzing up as much as I do, Roseate, since your hair is a tad wavier than mine. (I'm pretty sure that tighter ringlets = more prone to frizz) So my advice on the gel is mostly for people with my level of curl.
...
Speaking of my level of curl... Do you guys think that I accurately typed my curl pattern? is it actually a 3b/c and not a 3a/b?

Some curlier curlies are big fans of gel, it's true! I know we also have some higher 3 members here who skip it, though; GRU comes to mind, she tames her lovely 3b/3c's with nothing but Suave Coconut. More like the TightlyCurly (http://www.tightlycurly.com/technique/curlyprimer/) method.

I like both with and without; gel gives better definition and less frizz, no gel is softer and dries quicker.

I think you're right on with the 3a/3b typing!

[chahuahuas]

Chahuahuas, I don't know about the curve pattern level, but your hair is very pretty. Is mine accurate? 2a/2b?

You have full-on ringlets in your pictures, so I would think some level of 3, and that you simply aren't getting all the curl you can out of the top layer (it's called the canopy in CG terms) for whatever reason.

ETA: I'm a newbie to typing though, so don't take my word for it.

[Lollipop]

one of my favorite threads: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/47609-post-your-before-after-cg-pics.html
helpful styling video: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/49541-kinky-curly-styling-video.html

curly hair styling breaks down into two main categories. 1 is with manipulation, such as braid waves, bun curls, sock bun curls, rollers, and such. these work on all hair types. the second method is using some product to minimize frizz while bringing out the natural curl pattern by air drying or blow drying with a diffuser. both links deal with the latter.


eta: oops! seems you have plenty of good advice already. the links still might be helpfull

[C.H.]

You have full-on ringlets in your pictures, so I would think some level of 3, and that you simply aren't getting all the curl you can out of the top layer (it's called the canopy in CG terms) for whatever reason.

ETA: I'm a newbie to typing though, so don't take my word for it.

I agree. Seeing that you have full on spirals, and not just a couple of them, I'd put you somewhere in the 3s. Probably 3a unless you get a lot more curl going eventually.

[C.H.]

Speaking of my level of curl... Do you guys think that I accurately typed my curl pattern? is it actually a 3b/c and not a 3a/b?

I think you're pretty much right on. I definitely don't think you're anywhere near a 3c. 3c are those little tiny curls. Yours are much bigger.

[whisper]

emelnd,

You're "after" is beautiful!

Since your hair is so long it may be weighing down the curls so you have that area of straight before your curls at the bottom. I like it!

If you want curls higher up you could try damp bunning...basically put your hair up immediately after you add your gel. Then don't take it down until it is dry.

Good luck!

[whisper]

Possible inexpensive products to try:

1st conditioner of CO: VO5 Champagne kisses or Suave Water Lily & Aloe
2nd conditioner: VO5 Free Me Freesia :)
leave-ins:
aloe gel
jojoba oil
kimberlillies defrizzer (with Vitamin E oil added to it)
Garnier curl scruch gel (or their curl shaping gel if you need a light hold)

I layer all 4 of the leave-ins in the order presented then damp bun. You may not need them all. And damp bunning helps to minimize the urge to touch.

[chahuahuas]

emelnd,

You're "after" is beautiful!

Since your hair is so long it may be weighing down the curls so you have that area of straight before your curls at the bottom. I like it!

If you want curls higher up you could try damp bunning...basically put your hair up immediately after you add your gel. Then don't take it down until it is dry.

Good luck!

Whisper, I'm confused as to the advice you are giving. If I were to bun my hair when wet, my hair would no achieve ringlets, instead it would get "bun waves." Waves are fine, but I thought we were talking about bring out her natural curl, which is more of a 3 curl pattern IMO because of the ringlets in her ends. Maybe we're talking about two different things here?

[whisper]

That's probably because my version of a bun is lame...I just twist and twist and twist....fold it up and clip. Works for me... *shrug*

[emelnd]

Chahuahuas, I did use some conditioner as a leave in, maybe not enough? I used the flax gel because I read about it on here, but I don't care if the product is organic or not. I have Tresseme gel, it doesn't seem to have cones, so maybe I'll try that next time.

Whisper, thank you! Do you twist all your hair together before clipping? If I try a bun, I think I would only bun the canopy.

[emelnd]

Lollipop, those before and after curly girl pictures are very cool. Such dramatic difference!

[Sunshineliz]

Chahuahuas, I don't know about the curve pattern level, but your hair is very pretty. Is mine accurate? 2a/2b?

I'd give it a solid 3a--but I'm no expert.;)

[ttverdy]

Yikes! Be careful with brushes and curly hair. I generally only brush or comb my hair when it's wet, because it breaks up the curls when they're dry, so they turn into frizz.

[whisper]

Yes, I just grab it all like I'm doing a pony tail. You could experiment with doing separate sections though...it might give you an even curlier results.

[RitaCeleste]

Oh, well. I'd rather live with some frizz than put gel in it. I can brush it less and finger-comb more, but no gel. I care about how it feels and whether or not I can run my fingers threw it. Looks are second to me, touch is first. I kinda buy clothes that way too, touch it, then decide to look at it.:o

[chahuahuas]

Oh, well. I'd rather live with some frizz than put gel in it. I can brush it less and finger-comb more, but no gel. I care about how it feels and whether or not I can run my fingers threw it. Looks are second to me, touch is first. I kinda buy clothes that way too, touch it, then decide to look at it.:o

I find gel doesn't feel bad if you are sure to layer it on top of creamy product. I put in leave-in conditioner, then some curling cream before I even THINK about gel.

[Sunshineliz]

Oh, well. I'd rather live with some frizz than put gel in it. I can brush it less and finger-comb more, but no gel. I care about how it feels and whether or not I can run my fingers threw it. Looks are second to me, touch is first. I kinda buy clothes that way too, touch it, then decide to look at it.:o

I use Aloe Vera gel both on me and DD5 and it's very soft and still helps with the frizz. If you still feel some crunch, just scrunch it a little, and it's touchably soft! I love the way DD5's curls feel and they're still gorgeous curls.

[whisper]

Rita,

If you are "feeling" your gel you might be using too much. If you're up for experimenting, try to use less. Garnier also has Curl Shaping Spray Gel that is a lighter hold that might be better for you (again, if you are up for experimenting).