Weird question...let's talk about hair "cheating"?

[Lianna]

I'd like to know some opinions. When is someone cheating? When they claim a length with stretched hair and not their natural wavy/curly hair? This is quite popular here, I've read some people say they feel like they're cheating.

How about hair alterations like relaxers, perms, BKT's, dyes or even basic styling with hot tools or braid waves/cold rollers? How about the sock bun?! Or that bun that you wrap around a big claw clip?

I personally feel like it's only "cheating" when someone actually adds hair extensions/wigs.

[monsterna]

Extensions, yes. Wigs are pretty obvious, and usually there due to hair loss or something, I don't even consider it in this. I also think maybe when people judge their length based on when it's wet, which can be quite a difference to what it actually is dry. I think also it's fine to stretch the hair and measure it and say it's so many inches, but to stretch it so that it hits a landmark (APL, BSL, WL, etc.) when it doesn't naturally fall there itself, and then to label your hair as such length, is a bit cheating. :) But whatever makes people happy. Sometimes it's nice to think you're somewhere you're not so you're not always wondering when you will be. :)

[Brenda714]

Is it cheating to have fake nails, plastic surgery or wigs due to chemotherapy that makes one happy? Sometimes I think so, but I have had to wear extensions after a bad haircut. I don't really like it and would love to have "natural hair" but right now, I just can't deal with having a really messed up haircut. Anyhow, that's why I cheat... :(

[QueenJoey]

Yeah, when I saw the word "cheating" the first thing I thought was "extensions". I don't think sock buns and changing your hair texture is cheating. More like playing around with what you've got.

[xoxophelia]

Ummm I guess I consider hair "cheating" to be things like lying about your length or thickness, photoshopping your hair to look different, tilting the head back for length photos.. maybe even never showing your natural hair texture but claiming it is natural.

Honestly I feel like a number of people here do it. MOST don't but sometimes it is pretty obvious. I don't care much either way haha :D

Also, I don't consider wigs and extensions to be cheating if somebody is upfront about using them. Some people here use wigs because they have hair loss on top but still let what they have grow and show through the bottom ^^

[Bene]

Is it cheating to have fake nails, plastic surgery or wigs due to chemotherapy that makes one happy? Sometimes I think so, but I have had to wear extensions after a bad haircut. I don't really like it and would love to have "natural hair" but right now, I just can't deal with having a really messed up haircut. Anyhow, that's why I cheat... :(


I think fake nails and plastic surgery are cheating, but I don't think chemo wigs are in the same category as fake nails and plastic surgery.


But yeah, I don't think stretching out a curl or a wave is cheating, since it's still the actual hair.


And, I don't count sock buns as real buns, since most of that is something other than hair. So, I see those as the same thing as extensions, cheating. Especially if they don't have enough hair to make a real bun.




On the other hand, somebody else cheating doesn't affect me in any way, so they can cheat all they want. Doesn't make them a bad person, just a cheater.

[Lianna]

Hey, Brenda! Don't be sad, I didn't mean to hurt people with this thread. I've worn extensions too! Yeah, I think it's cheating but I didn't exactly felt bad about it then, you shouldn't.

About stretching hair, it isn't a big deal when you're in the 1's and 2's, but past that people can really have shoulder length "natural" hair and REALLY long stretched hair, like MBL and such. Think about that. Wet hair is just a form of stretching, sometimes wet hair can't be even all that stretched.

[littlenvy]

I don't know. Cheating is quite a harsh word that would imply lying and trying to full everyone in order to gain something.
Unless you are selling a product and claim that it made your hair grow like crazy and then try to pass extensions as your own hair to prove the growth ... I don't see anything else as cheating. You can tell a wig, you can tell most extension sooner or later. If you are curly and relax your hair its still YOUR hair so its not cheating anyone.

Everyone wants to look their best, I don't see that as cheating. :)

[chahuahuas]

I don't understand why someone would lie about their hair length/type/thickness or photoshop it on this forum. Do they want to live vicariously in these forums as a long haired rapunzel?

[Lianna]

I don't understand why someone would lie about their hair length/type/thickness or photoshop it on this forum. Do they want to live vicariously in these forums as a long haired rapunzel?

Yeah. I can't really tell if people are cheating in pictures, though. We do have that great photoshop thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=549)! :p

[CurlAhead]

I don't consider a person who wears extensions a cheater, unless they are like "I swear, it is all my hair!". As long as they don't LIE about it, they don't really cheat. For example, I am thinking of wearing extensions until my hair gets long enough, but I wouldn't change my length in my profile. THAT would be cheating.

[Lianna]

I don't consider a person who wears extensions a cheater, unless they are like "I swear, it is all my hair!". As long as they don't LIE about it, they don't really cheat. For example, I am thinking of wearing extensions until my hair gets long enough, but I wouldn't change my length in my profile. THAT would be cheating.

I agree, you wouldn't be cheating in here. But unless you are wearing "I'm wearing hair extentions" shirt, you'd be "visual" cheating to the rest of the world (like walking by people).

Again, I'm not hating on hair extensions! I think it's fine to wear them.

[virgo75]

I'd like to know some opinions. When is someone cheating? When they claim a length with stretched hair and not their natural wavy/curly hair? This is quite popular here, I've read some people say they feel like they're cheating.

How about hair alterations like relaxers, perms, BKT's, dyes or even basic styling with hot tools or braid waves/cold rollers? How about the sock bun?! Or that bun that you wrap around a big claw clip?

I personally feel like it's only "cheating" when someone actually adds hair extensions/wigs.

Hmm, I only consider it cheating if:
1)there's fake hair involved
2)you're measuring your thickness including the scrunchi/elastic holding your ponytail
3)you lean your head back to measure


I don't consider it cheating for a wavy/curyl to give their stretched hair length rather than their wavy/curly hair length. I think the former is more accurate anyway. As a curly myself, my natural curl pattern is tighter or looser on different days based on the weather, products I use, or it's mood. Yes, my hair has moods. lol So I could be APL one day and shoulder length another....

I only trim and measure my hair stretched or straightened because it's more precise than doing it curly.

[CurlAhead]

I agree, you wouldn't be cheating in here. But unless you are wearing "I'm wearing hair extentions" shirt, you'd be "visual" cheating to the rest of the world (like walking by people).

Again, I'm not hating on hair extensions! I think it's fine to wear them.

Well, yeah, I know.. :( I would actually like to have extensions anyway, but since my hair is really curly and has lots of layers it wouldn't work, and SADLY I would actually feel a bit plastic and too girly. Don't know why, almost all of my friends use extensions (clips that they can take on and off). But if I started using extensions I wouldn't deny it irl, that would just be awkward when they found out, haha! :D

But to sum up what I meant: People who wear extensions but DENY it if people ask, etc, well, I think I would call them cheaters. But if I called them cheaters just for wearing extensions, I would have to call everyone who, for example, wears makeup cheaters. Tricky question.. :shrug:

[Bene]

Well, yeah, I know.. :( I would actually like to have extensions anyway, but since my hair is really curly and has lots of layers it wouldn't work, and SADLY I would actually feel a bit plastic and too girly. Don't know why, almost all of my friends use extensions (clips that they can take on and off). But if I started using extensions I wouldn't deny it irl, that would just be awkward when they found out, haha! :D

But to sum up what I meant: People who wear extensions but DENY it if people ask, etc, well, I think I would call them cheaters. But if I called them cheaters just for wearing extensions, I would have to call everyone who, for example, wears makeup cheaters. Tricky question.. :shrug:


I call everyone who wear makeup cheaters :shrug:

[Lianna]

Well, yeah, I know.. :( I would actually like to have extensions anyway, but since my hair is really curly and has lots of layers it wouldn't work, and SADLY I would actually feel a bit plastic and too girly. Don't know why, almost all of my friends use extensions (clips that they can take on and off). But if I started using extensions I wouldn't deny it irl, that would just be awkward when they found out, haha! :D

But to sum up what I meant: People who wear extensions but DENY it if people ask, etc, well, I think I would call them cheaters. But if I called them cheaters just for wearing extensions, I would have to call everyone who, for example, wears makeup cheaters. Tricky question.. :shrug:

Oh, I had a great time when I wore extentions, it was clip in too. I mainly used for buns. It helped me manipulate my hair less, it was like 3 months or so only though (don't really remember). You seem like you want to, curl ahead! I mean, go ahead. ;)

I'd love to "cheat" me some flawless skin, LOL. I'm no good with that. :D

ETA: Thinking of sock buns. I really just see it as a "style", because we're not really faking a cinnabun. Most often we can see it's a sock bun (though it can look similar sometimes)

[swetiepeti]

I can say that I've noted that most of the ladies with curly hair state something like "my hair is now almost to my waist when stretched out straight". But even if they don't clarify, I don't have a problem with how they count thier own length. Especially as I'll bet the amount of curl and therefore curled length, changes daily from day to day depending on humidity, etc.
I don't consider it cheating unless you're using say hair other than your own and calling it yours.

[teela1978]

To me, the measuring system is so you can compare your hair to other people's and see what types of styles you can do at that length... so I wouldn't think it would be possible to cheat. If your hair is waistlength with extensions and you want to put it up in a bun, you'd want to compare to other people with waistlength hair. Same with curls, possible styles might be affected by very curly hair, but often curly girls know tricks to stretch it out so they can put it up easier. Why shouldn't they report their total length?

[leentora]

Mmmm what about afro textured hair that appears shorter due to all the coils, curls. It appears to be shorter say SL but wen straightened it APL/BSL. I am now thinking is cheating saying ones hair is APL when shorter in its natural form due to shrinkage? Or is it really APL with shrinkage at APL, if that makes sense lol

[Lianna]

I just always assumed that when a curly/wavy puts her/his hair length in inches, that's the stretched strand. When they put body parts, I don't assume anything. I'm personally waiting to be APL wurly (and in the front) before I claim it because isn't that much of a difference for me. After that I might go with just the back "look" because I want an U hemline at waist. :)

[Brenda714]

thanks Lianna, thanks for responding to me :). I'm just really sensitive about it, cause i think i look yucky with short hair. it's just hard to say i wear extensions on LHC, because i feel like i am judged for having them, i dont feel understood. How long did you wear them?

[Sundial]

I don't know. Cheating is quite a harsh word that would imply lying and trying to full everyone in order to gain something.
Unless you are selling a product and claim that it made your hair grow like crazy and then try to pass extensions as your own hair to prove the growth ... I don't see anything else as cheating. You can tell a wig, you can tell most extension sooner or later. If you are curly and relax your hair its still YOUR hair so its not cheating anyone.

Everyone wants to look their best, I don't see that as cheating. :)

Agreed! That would explain the 100 length shots that people take just to upload 1 perfect one as 'cheating' too.

I just take everything with a pinch of salt. It really doesn't matter either way! Whatever makes them happy :D

[Lianna]

thanks Lianna, thanks for responding to me :). I'm just really sensitive about it, cause i think i look yucky with short hair. it's just hard to say i wear extensions on LHC, because i feel like i am judged for having them, i dont feel understood. How long did you wear them?

You're welcome! I used mine from less than chin length (little pony stub) til I could make my own sock bun (at chin but almost SL). Before I did simple loops or sock buns with the extentions (double cheating ;)) For few "special occasions" I did half-ups (easy to blend). The extensions were about APL only.

[luthein]

I do think some of the 'cheating' occurs because LHC has world-class hair. After all, this forum has has the most beautiful heads of hair in the world posting photos. It's natural to get a bit nervous because we are very critical of hair health, shine, thickness, curl pattern, frizziness, color, taper and so on. It can be hard to put your hair out there if you feel like your locks are less-than-ideal.

I see it as a side effect of anxiety, rather than being a liar/cheater.

[katsrevenge]

It's only cheating if it's not your hair. All the rest is fair game.

As for stretching hair if your curly... that only makes sense. Straight haired people are measuring the length of the strand as well...but nature just made it a bit different for the curlies to do the same! (Not to mention mine changes where it lays naturally depending on if I've combed it, the weather, if it has been in an updo or not, oiled or not, what I washed it with last... or a hundred other things...and sometimes the curl is crazy and then other days I barely have any and have 'longer' hair.)

I will admit to a curiousness as to the stretched/unstretched difference.. but that is just me.

[ravenreed]

With my bright green eye shadow? When I wear makeup, it's pretty obvious and not really cheating, IMO. Just decorating.



I call everyone who wear makeup cheaters :shrug:

[Mesmerise]

I'd like to know some opinions. When is someone cheating? When they claim a length with stretched hair and not their natural wavy/curly hair? This is quite popular here, I've read some people say they feel like they're cheating.

How about hair alterations like relaxers, perms, BKT's, dyes or even basic styling with hot tools or braid waves/cold rollers? How about the sock bun?! Or that bun that you wrap around a big claw clip?

I personally feel like it's only "cheating" when someone actually adds hair extensions/wigs.

I don't think it's cheating to claim a length that you only have stretched. I have no idea how I'd consistently measure my length if I DIDN'T stretch it! And I don't have that much wave...but it's enough to eat up a couple of inches. Besides, sometimes it's straighter and sometimes it's wavier. I doubt I will consider it "waist" until it's unstretched waist though.

I also don't think altering your hair by relaxing it or whatever is really cheating. I mean... it may not be your natural hair texture, but it's still your real HAIR.

Extensions, however, ARE cheating because they're not actually your hair!

However, if you had chemically straightened hair and then claimed you were a 1a I'd think you were cheating (or just deluding yourself :p) sort of like if you have a spiral perm and say you're a 3c lol.

If I straightened my hair and someone admired my "straight" hair, I'd probably tell them it wasn't really straight ;).

I think when people say they feel like they're cheating, it's more that what their hair is, and how it looks, are two different things. If you have very curly hair that loses 10inches in length when it's natural, and you say you've got 30" hair... you can feel "cheating" a bit because in reality you look as if you've got 20" hair. However, the truth is you really can lay claim to all those 30" because that describes the absolute length of your hair. However, someone whose hair loses 10" to curls probably won't call their APL length hair "waist" (they may say "waist when stretched") unless they're using that just as a guide for their stretched hair.

Overall, though, I don't think it matters! Your hair is your hair and you can measure it how you like!

[spidermom]

It looks like cheating to me when somebody has maybe one hair at classic length and puts classic length in the stats.

But no biggie. Who knows, I might grow to terminal and do the same thing some day.

[Sundial]

I don't think it's cheating to claim a length that you only have stretched. I have no idea how I'd consistently measure my length if I DIDN'T stretch it! And I don't have that much wave...but it's enough to eat up a couple of inches. Besides, sometimes it's straighter and sometimes it's wavier. I doubt I will consider it "waist" until it's unstretched waist though.


Actually, come to think of it, we really do need to have the length of stretched hair!!

Imagine a kinky/curly telling a straighty that he/she has BSL (unstretched) length iii hair and is asking for advice on what size Ficcare to purchase :doh: The volume of hair that a kinky/curly has at BSL (unstretched) is definitely more than the volume of hair that a straighty has at BSL.

So I wouldn't call that cheating - It's just useful information to have for people to assist you in certain situations

[Mesmerise]

thanks Lianna, thanks for responding to me :). I'm just really sensitive about it, cause i think i look yucky with short hair. it's just hard to say i wear extensions on LHC, because i feel like i am judged for having them, i dont feel understood. How long did you wear them?

I had extensions put in when I had really, really short hair that I hated! I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If I told people it was my natural hair (which it obviously wasn't lol) then I could have been "cheating" but really I did it to feel better about myself.

It would be cheating to come on LHC, claim you have 36" hair, when your real hair is only 24" and you've got extensions though... that's totally different!

[Bene]

With my bright green eye shadow? When I wear makeup, it's pretty obvious and not really cheating, IMO. Just decorating.


Good point. It IS decorating.... But I take it one step further. Decorating to make oneself look more attractive than they really are = cheating. It's a semantics game, really.

[Lianna]

However, someone whose hair loses 10" to curls probably won't call their APL length hair "waist" (they may say "waist when stretched") unless they're using that just as a guide for their stretched hair.

I noticed that in here. But on other hair boards made for the curly hair audience, most refer to the stretched hair.

[pittsburgpam]

It looks like cheating to me when somebody has maybe one hair at classic length and puts classic length in the stats.

That's one of the few things that I might notice. That is why my personal goal is a blunt cut Classic, not thin ends at Classic. But, that's just me and if someone else considers theirs differently then that's no skin off my nose (or hair off my head, so to speak).

I understand about curly hair length when straight since curls can be so different from day-to-day. How else can a person get their own accurate measurement if they are tracking growth?

[chahuahuas]

Hahaha, Ravenreed, that's pure gold. That should be the motto of a beauty magazine. "I'm not cheating, I'm just decorating." I think I may have to write that down. That would even make a good tattoo...

[Mesmerise]

Good point. It IS decorating.... But I take it one step further. Decorating to make oneself look more attractive than they really are = cheating. It's a semantics game, really.

Well we could all go around dressed in sacks too... because if you get too much into semantics just wearing nice clothes would be cheating! Or wearing a pretty hair accessory... or a piece of jewellery.

In fact, we'd be cheating if we did anything more than walk around dressed in identical sack clothing :p!

Sometimes we just dress nicely or wear makeup or whatever for the heck of it ;) I don't think it needs to be called cheating! That's why I say in general it doesn't really matter.

I would only say you're cheating on LHC if you pretend to have something that you don't. If you pretend you have long hair, when you've got extensions, or you claim to be a natural blonde when you're bleached... or whatever... I don't know if anyone does that, but I guess in the end it doesn't affect me!

[hyettf16]

There is just such a fine line between "cheating" and doing what you prefer. So I guess I don't consider anything cheating. I think it's ok to say your temporary length or texture and natural.

[Bene]

Well we could all go around dressed in sacks too... because if you get too much into semantics just wearing nice clothes would be cheating! Or wearing a pretty hair accessory... or a piece of jewellery.

In fact, we'd be cheating if we did anything more than walk around dressed in identical sack clothing :p!

Sometimes we just dress nicely or wear makeup or whatever for the heck of it ;) I don't think it needs to be called cheating! That's why I say in general it doesn't really matter.

I would only say you're cheating on LHC if you pretend to have something that you don't. If you pretend you have long hair, when you've got extensions, or you claim to be a natural blonde when you're bleached... or whatever... I don't know if anyone does that, but I guess in the end it doesn't affect me!


I don't think it matters either. I cheat when I pluck my eyebrows.


Then again, I don't think "cheater" is such a bad word as people seem to think it is.


However, clothes and jewelry are something different than makeup and extensions. Clothes cheating is wearing that spanx to hide flab, but normal dressing up isn't. People aren't physically attached to their clothes and accessories the same way that extensions are makeup are directly on the body.


When you look at a person's face, even with the most outlandish makeup, it's still part of their face when you look at them. It's how we perceive faces. When you look at a person's clothes, you still know without consciously thinking about it that they're wearing clothes. There's an immediate disconnect that we don't actively think about. It's not the same with cosmetics and extensions.


Sorry, one of my Philosophy electives was Aesthetics and we spent hours discussing the use of cosmetics vs. the use of clothing, and how it pertains to honesty in regards of contemporary beauty.

[Lianna]

I agree with Bene, plus a lot of people might think you're naturally like that (extensions and natural looking make-up). We can show ourselves in a way we aren't. I'd still do it, wouldn't deny it, but sure hope some stranger don't come up to me and ask if I'm wearing make-up to cover flaws or something like that.

[Rocket22]

I wear extensions all the time (well not so much anymore) All my friends know, but do I blab to strangers, No! but if they ask of course I would be more than happy to talk hair. Is it cheating???? yeah I guess so but I don't care I like it. I also wear makeup bleach my hair (used to) and do all other sorts of "cheating" but I don't care I'm not trying to "cheat" anyone else if it makes me happy that really is my business.. Now when it comes to measurements or progress photos here, I post full story along with photo and I certainly don't try passing my extension hair off as my real hair that would only be cheating myself . I have a goal and that is to grow nice healthy hair with what I have learned. Now how someone measures their hair, stretched, wet curly or what ever again that really is there business. Personally we all "cheat" in some way or another. I think we had a discussion about this a bit back.. Hey not too many people roll out of bed with everything in perfect place.

[UltraBella]

I think it's only "cheating" if someone lies about it. For example :
Purposely passing off extensions as your own hair.
Adding an inch, or two, to your circumference measurement.
Photoshopping the see-though ends of your hair so it looks thicker. (noticed that one several times !)
Saying you are a size 8 when you are a size 12.
No, these aren't colored contacts, my eyes really are lavender.
And, lash extensions that you swear are your own lashes. Cheating !!!

[Helix]

I know many type 3 and 4 girl's whose true length is waist or longer but in shrunken state still sits at their shoulders....are they supposed to claim shoulder length for the rest of their lives? Do you consider that to be an accurate way of measuring length?

Remember that old geometry excercise back in middle school? they show you a picture of a straight line and a looped line and ask you which one is longer? Turns out both of them are the same length. Thus, in my book if both lengths measure equally their lengths are equal regardless of shape - the same rule applies to hair.

I don't consider stretching the hair to show your true length cheating. Photoshopping to make it longer - yes. Wearing extensions that are longer than your true length would be cheating but what other people choose to do with their own heads is none of my biz. They're not fooling anyone but themselves anyway.

[Toadstool]

I agree, you wouldn't be cheating in here. But unless you are wearing "I'm wearing hair extentions" shirt, you'd be "visual" cheating to the rest of the world (like walking by people).

Again, I'm not hating on hair extensions! I think it's fine to wear them.
LOL mine are red and blue, I don't think I'd be visually cheating anyone.
I don't get this "cheating" thing. It implies those who don't "cheat" are superior to those who do. The definition here really seems to be code for Who's lying about their length/texture?
I would say, unless you're in some sort of competition with someone (and I'm not), who cares?

[Toadstool]

When you look at a person's face, even with the most outlandish makeup, it's still part of their face when you look at them. It's how we perceive faces. When you look at a person's clothes, you still know without consciously thinking about it that they're wearing clothes. There's an immediate disconnect that we don't actively think about. It's not the same with cosmetics and extensions.


Sorry, one of my Philosophy electives was Aesthetics and we spent hours discussing the use of cosmetics vs. the use of clothing, and how it pertains to honesty in regards of contemporary beauty.

That sounds really interesting :)

[teela1978]

I would say, unless you're in some sort of competition with someone (and I'm not), who cares?
This. (10 chars)

[Lianna]

I would say, unless you're in some sort of competition with someone (and I'm not), who cares?

I made this thread mainly because I think it's unfair that some people think wavies/curlies length stretched shoudn't "count". Perhaps it could open some more people's eyes to the matter. I threw the other stuff in just for fun.

ETA: Btw, I would be a "cheater" too, since I dye my hair and have fooled a lot of strangers (who later told me they thought my hair was natural)

[dmarie16]

I wear extensions all the time (well not so much anymore) All my friends know, but do I blab to strangers, No! but if they ask of course I would be more than happy to talk hair. Is it cheating???? yeah I guess so but I don't care I like it. I also wear makeup bleach my hair (used to) and do all other sorts of "cheating" but I don't care I'm not trying to "cheat" anyone else if it makes me happy that really is my business.. Now when it comes to measurements or progress photos here, I post full story along with photo and I certainly don't try passing my extension hair off as my real hair that would only be cheating myself . I have a goal and that is to grow nice healthy hair with what I have learned. Now how someone measures their hair, stretched, wet curly or what ever again that really is there business. Personally we all "cheat" in some way or another. I think we had a discussion about this a bit back.. Hey not too many people roll out of bed with everything in perfect place.
Here, here!!! I agree 100%. We all cheat in one way or another! I personally shave, wax, pluck, curl, color, tint or change the hair on every inch of my body in one way or another!! I have tattoos, piercings, love wearing makeup and will NOT wear clothes that look bad on me!! I pamper my hair so it looks "good". We all cheat. WHO CARES!!! Lol! Be beautiful and happy and don't pay attention to envy and jealousy! :beercheer:

[xoxophelia]

I have seen the photoshopping of the ends of hair as well here. One picture I saw was extremely obvious but that individual photoshops nearly all their photos so it may just be a personal preference?

Actually, I was looking through my own pictures and I have one length shot that looks blurry at the end which could be photoshop. It was from me moving while taking the photo so you never know. Some of the time it may come down to that in other people's pictures as well.

Another thing that could be mentioned is the difference between volume and thickness. Some people puff up their hair as much as possible for photos to make it look thicker. Or, my natural hair texture when left to its own devices in humid weather can get horribly huge O.O.. but that doesn't make my hair "thick" (it is only moderately thick). Some people also see those with very sleek hair as having thin hair. My hair may be bigger than a fellow 1a but we can have the exact same thickness.

[maria_asa]

I made this thread mainly because I think it's unfair that some people think wavies/curlies length stretched shoudn't "count". Perhaps it could open some more people's eyes to the matter. I threw the other stuff in just for fun.

ETA: Btw, I would be a "cheater" too, since I dye my hair and have fooled a lot of strangers (who later told me they thought my hair was natural)

I do understand your point of view and I do think that wavies/curlies should claim their stretched length (if they want to). To me cheating is a very harsh word though that implies a deceiving agenda from the cheaters part. If a person wants to claim their length including extensions, add to their thickness or claim another texture that their natural as "real" why should it bother me? Whatever makes everyone feel good about themselves.

I grow my hair for myself and I guess I didn't realise it was all a competition of who has the best/longest/thickest/whatever hair.

[Lianna]

I use photoshop in pretty much all my photos, but not to change my hair. I mostly tweak the light, since my room is "orangey". My hair is very orange in the photos, and in real life looks like a level 8 neutral blonde (even though I dye with a seven). You see, since I dye my hair, I wouldn't want people thinking how freaking brassy and a bad job I do, because I actually do a good job, and I'm proud of it. It's hard for me to take pictures outside (rather not discuss that). I love looking at all the pictures here, so I try to share with mine too, even though my hair is short.

I'm amazed at how you people notice these...erm.. alterations? I don't know how to do that. I do know how to use the stamp tool and make hair longer, which I did for many people in the photoshop thread. :p Bad job, though.

I also need to resize it so isn't huge. It's much better after, specially because all my pictures, except the last two, were from my phone.

[clarinette]

I have naturally very straight hair, and in my opinion my lenght is the lenght of my hair (haha captain obvious) but here is where i'm going with this: if I had curly hair, I think I would feel the same. Curly hair is probably soooo long to grow out, that I would end up despairing and measuring both lenghts, I don't think that this should be seen as cheating...after all if their hair DOES go to waist stretched, it means it's long enough to reach waist! this is all such hard work and patience, any milestone is comforting. I don't see it as cheating, I see it as someone with waist lenght hair whose curly texture hides a few years of growth.

[Mesmerise]

I think it's only "cheating" if someone lies about it. For example :
Purposely passing off extensions as your own hair.
Adding an inch, or two, to your circumference measurement.
Photoshopping the see-though ends of your hair so it looks thicker. (noticed that one several times !)
Saying you are a size 8 when you are a size 12.
No, these aren't colored contacts, my eyes really are lavender.
And, lash extensions that you swear are your own lashes. Cheating !!!

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think. If you're coming here claiming something that you're not, you're cheating.

I don't really see the point in doing that though, because as someone else said, the only person I'd be cheating would be myself! I like to put true pics here because it's a record for ME of my hair. And also, in the future, maybe my pics might be an inspiration for someone else who's having similar hair issues to me!

That being said, if I had 5 pics taken of my hair, I'd choose the best one to put on here :D.

[Katze]

For me, calling my length BSL, for example, when only the tips of my hair reach that length is cheating. But I realize that other people have very different opinions, and respect those opinions and their right to have them!

I can't feel like my hair has reached a certain length until most of the hemline is at that length. Because I have severe natural taper, this means I have been at the same general length forever...

[Toadstool]

I made this thread mainly because I think it's unfair that some people think wavies/curlies length stretched shoudn't "count". Perhaps it could open some more people's eyes to the matter. I threw the other stuff in just for fun.

ETA: Btw, I would be a "cheater" too, since I dye my hair and have fooled a lot of strangers (who later told me they thought my hair was natural)

Yes, I could tell from your tone you weren't being judgemental.:) But I felt that was the direction the thread could go in.

[RitaCeleste]

I think it would be cheating to wear extensions and go around claiming its yours and telling people you did this and that to get there. I think its fine to wear extensions, especially for colors you wouldn't want to dye your own hair. I never know what stretching hair means and just wonder if that stresses the hair the way they do it. I love unnatural looking things so that part doesn't bother me. The rest of the stuff, like sock buns seems to be just working with what you've got to me. I do think the hair forum isn't the place to feel like you have to mislead people about whether your color is all natural, or pass off extensions as real hair or mislead anyone. In real life maybe you wouldn't reveal your age or admit you had extensions but here I expect some more honesty about that kind of thing here.

[LunaMoon]

I am a cheater. I shave my legs, did laser surgery in my eyes, wear make up, take vitamins. I use coconut oil and CO with cones to add extra shine in my hair as well. I don't acept my natural acne and use products to prevent/ control it. When the sun bleach my hair and I do nothing about I am cheating too because is not the real color of my hair, it is sun bleached. In the other hand, if I color back to my natural color I will be cheating as well. Well I can't help it...

[slz]

it's just hard to say i wear extensions on LHC, because i feel like i am judged for having them

I had extensions put in when I had really, really short hair that I hated! I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Well, yes, there IS something wrong with extensions : it damages your own hair !! So if you're trying to grow long hair, you're really shooting a long term bullet in your foot, for the sake of short term .... to me that's the reason why I cringe when I read about someone here on LHC having extensions. "Regular" people ? I couldn't care less ! But fellow hair growers ? Please stop ! It makes me sad just like when I read about someone flat ironing or bleaching or what not.


I have seen the photoshopping of the ends of hair as well here. One picture I saw was extremely obvious but that individual photoshops nearly all their photos
Darn, it never occured to me that people could do that - I mean, I obviously know you can do it (used to be a graphist), but here ? Since I consider LHC albums to be for my own record just as much as to "show off", it never occured to me that someone could cheat this way ... and now I envision each and every pic I post being suspiciously checked for photoshoppery ... hey, I was being very naive I guess.

[xoxophelia]

^I wouldn't worry too much about photoshopping the ends. Ultrabella noted that she had seen it before, and while there are a few people here with great photoshop skills, I have only ever noticed it once. In that one case it was extremely obvious since you could clearly see the real ends and then a blurry black was smudged around through only the end of the hair.

It was so obvious that I would be shocked it they were actually trying to do it to fool people.

[Mesmerise]

Well, yes, there IS something wrong with extensions : it damages your own hair !! So if you're trying to grow long hair, you're really shooting a long term bullet in your foot, for the sake of short term .... to me that's the reason why I cringe when I read about someone here on LHC having extensions. "Regular" people ? I couldn't care less ! But fellow hair growers ? Please stop ! It makes me sad just like when I read about someone flat ironing or bleaching or what not.




Haha well I had so little hair at the time that I had extensions, that it really didn't matter too much if there was a wee bit of damage! Besides, my hair was actually virgin for the first time in several years at the time, so yeah... not too bad. It's not like I had extensions in BSL hair and I was damaging the roots. It was more extensions in hair that was barely 1" to 2" long... and it helped me get from uber short hair to a longer pixie that didn't make me feel so awful or so self conscious!

Anyway, you'll be glad to know that before LHC I was considering extensions AND a Brazilian keratin treatment. Thank goodness I found LHC :D!!!

[kidari]

I'm all for any kind of cheating when it comes to your looks if it makes you happy: dying your hair, putting on makeup, wearing extensions, plastic surgery, any of it. If it makes you feel good about yourself and as long as it's not taking over your life, I think go for it. I guess the only time it's infuriating is if it's obvious that they're fake and the person lies and insists that it's real. On the flipside, it's not really anyone's business but it's still annoying at the very least.

[Carolyn]

I don't consider any of it really "cheating". Also I don't think cheating in a lot of instances is a big deal. Most times you are only screwing yourself. If someone gets extensions I don't care. I don't care if they harm their hair. If I have to listen to them bitch about damaged hair from the extensions, I wouldn't care for that! :D I could care less if people lie about their extensions, fake boobs, hair color, or whatever. What they do to their bodies doesn't affect me in the least. I guess I'm a cheater by some standards. I dye my hair, wear make up all the time, have fake nails. I'm sure there are other things I do to change or enhance my looks. Most of us here at LHC know how a sock bun is done and why it looks so big. Other people not so much. Is it cheating to let them think the bun is really all your hair? Heck no. I've run into some guys in a yahoo bun group who think those buns are all the person's hair. It's hilarious.

I think it's hilarious when someone here at LHC posts photoshopped hair pics. They all get caught and called out on it. It's always an interesting read :gabigrin: Who have they harmed? Only themselves. None of it is a big deal. I can't call it cheating or lying :shrug:

[HairStickler]

A couple of people objected to people with fairytale ends who count their longest hair as their length. What else should they count?

[ravenreed]

My hair has so many layers, natural and artificial... Right now I have a batch of regrowth (from a major shed after my surgery) that is between chin and APL. I go by what the longest ones are, however many that might be. Usually it is quite a few more than one, however! :D


It looks like cheating to me when somebody has maybe one hair at classic length and puts classic length in the stats.

But no biggie. Who knows, I might grow to terminal and do the same thing some day.

[kamikaze hair]

I hear all sides of the arguement and all are pretty much valid. I think ultimately its up to the individual. If they feel like they're cheating then maybe it should count as cheating. If they can say, "No, this is my routine" whether it be sock bun, extensions or whatever and are happy to do it, (loud and proud, as my girls say!) then its not cheating. It's about how you judge you.:D

:cheese:PARTY PARTY PARTY!!!! the cheese says PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[xoxophelia]

When have there been threads about people photoshopping their hair? (while hiding it)..

Kind of curious about how that went :D

[elbow chic]

Measuring stretched is not cheating. Hair, like roads and streams, often meanders but that doesn't mean the "real" length of it is "as the crow flies." :p My husband has to drive about fifteen miles to work, but as the crow flies it's probably more like eight miles. Alas he's not a crow. Save us a ton of gas money if he were.

Sock buns kind of are cheating, but pretty benign. They were actually pretty popular around here a couple years ago with the military gals... they allow you to neatly put up hair that's too short for a "real" bun but too long to be left down in uniform.

You can spot them easily and all the women I knew who wore them would tell you straight up "Yeah, there's a sock in there." I don't know anyone's who's ever tried to deny she was in fact wearing a sock bun.

As to extensions and wigs... I'd only consider it cheat-y if the wearer is hypersensitive about them, tried really insistently to pretend it was actually growing out of her head. Otherwise I don't care.

I once had a neighbor who would say, "ok, I'm headed to the grocery store, just as soon as I put my ponytail on." lol.

[kitschy]

Hey, Brenda! Don't be sad, I didn't mean to hurt people with this thread. I've worn extensions too! Yeah, I think it's cheating but I didn't exactly felt bad about it then, you shouldn't.

About stretching hair, it isn't a big deal when you're in the 1's and 2's, but past that people can really have shoulder length "natural" hair and REALLY long stretched hair, like MBL and such. Think about that. Wet hair is just a form of stretching, sometimes wet hair can't be even all that stretched.

So would blow drying my hair or ironing my hair to waist length be cheating? That is ridiculous IMHO.

If you curl your hair in rag curls or pin curls do you then have to say it is only as long as it falls when curly?

[xoxophelia]

I don't see why the 3's and 4's shouldn't stretch their hair to measure. It is the only way to track their growth rate and it takes just as long for them to grow an inch as a 1. It wouldn't be "fair" to expect a 3 to say their hair is only 20" when it is actually 40".

[rusika1]

... I've run into some guys in a yahoo bun group who think those buns are all the person's hair. It's hilarious.



Wait...what? A Yahoo bun group? that just sounds funny to me.

OP wasn't using 'cheating' in a pejorative sense. If someone out in the real world asked me about the amount of hair I had based on it's sock bunnedness, I would probably tell them it was a cheat because it was stuffed with something.

I don't care if people choose to change their appearance, but I think they need to keep a sense of perspective about it. A nose job because your grandfather's nose doesn't really 'work' on a woman? That's reasonable by most standards. Getting 40DD breast implants added to your petite, 100 lb body "because your boyfriend really likes big boobs"? Not so much.

Curlies should definitely be able to give their stretched length.

The only problems I have with the concept of extensions are that they seem expensive to get and maintain, they sound uncomfortable to wear, and they're hard on your hair. (Disclaimer: opinions about extensions based almost entirely on a sample size of one--a coworker who spent lots of money having her hair made 6 inches longer, and having them removed less than 1 week later.)

I don't even really mind if people with extensions want to pretend it's their own hair. Now if they were to start giving out advice on how to care for long hair...that would be a different story!:D

[gthlvrmx]

I really don't think stretching the hair out to see the most accurate length of the hair is cheating. It's not the curl that i'm measuring, it's the hair LENGTH. Of course curled hair is going to hide all the length in the first place. In the end anyways, if curls get long enough, the weight stretches them out. Not completely straight, not completely wavy sometimes, but it's curly. Maybe we should put 2 measurements, one for length stretched and unstretched.

Extensions? Then yes, cheating. Wigs? Obvious cheating and ruins the whole point of being here of they claim to be growing their wig out?. But it's their own profile anyways and the way they want other people to perceive them, not my deal.

And photoshopping? Seriously? It's just hair. Again, if that's how they want people to see them, their deal.

[Buddaphlyy]

The word "cheating" implies there's some type of game or competition going on. And if there is, I think it should only be with one's self and in that case, "cheating" only harms them.

Right now I'm wearing braid extensions and plan on getting a wig at the end of the summer. I doubt I'll be fooling/cheating anyone.

[ReadingRenee]

"Cheating" by measuring your hair stretched or whatever doesn't really affect anyone. Your hair is still the exact same length in reality. So I guess if you wanted to believe your hair was longer/ thicker than it really is or measure it in a way that its longer/thicker than it really is that is your prerogative but... still you hair is what it is.

It doesn't magically grow just because you measure it a certain way. So I don't really see how it would be "cheating". :)

eta: Im a wavy and I always measure my hair wet. I want to know the actual length of my hair, not the length it appears to be. :) I think its a funny concept that people consider stretching curly hair cheating.

[PianoPlaye]

Urgh. As a data analyst I deal with a lot of information & whether something is accurate or not is a big deal for us, so we have grading systems for how much weight we can put on any one fact.

So, "cheating"? Can be a strong word. Of course curlies should measure straight, if they want to compare to a straighthair, but why?! Curly curls. Straight doesn't without a bit of help.

So long as it looks good & the owner is happy with it, does it matter?

[Madora]

As long as the person has grown it themselves, then it is not cheating!

I call extensions "cheating"...adding length..or thickness..something you don't have naturally.

Ditto for postisches, falls, false braids, false hair, false ponytails, etc.

Unless the quality of the false hair is superb, you can tell what is real and what isn't. Hair "falls" a certain way and not all people are skilled in inserting their extensions in a manner that looks natural. Some of today's "styles" (some of which look like they were styled with an egg beater) are horrendous. I don't dig the "messy" ("wind blown") look that some many of Hollywood's elite seem to favor. Looks like they haven't run a comb thru their locks for weeks!

[Amber_Maiden]

I have a feeling that most people around here are pretty honest about their hair length though....

[greygardens]

The concept is bizarre to me that a 30 inch long straight hair would be considered somehow real or valid, while a 30 inch long curly hair that had to be straightened out in order to measure it accurately would be cheating. They're the same length! Someone didn't grow a longer hair just because their texture is straight.

[curlymarcia]

I don't feel that stretching curls is cheating. Anyway, I measure my progress in my natural curl texture because this is how I wear it daily. I personally don't feel like my hair length is where my stretched hair is, instead is where I daily see it in the mirror (at BSL). Other people can feel different about the length (specially the curlies that wear it straight).

[Mesmerise]

I don't see why the 3's and 4's shouldn't stretch their hair to measure. It is the only way to track their growth rate and it takes just as long for them to grow an inch as a 1. It wouldn't be "fair" to expect a 3 to say their hair is only 20" when it is actually 40".

Yeah, exactly! 40" of hair length is 40" whether or not it bounces back to 20" or not. Besides, how hard would it be measuring curly hair accurately if you didn't stretch at all?? If you're trying to gauge how fast your hair is growing, or how much it has grown a month, you can't do it UNLESS you stretch as far as I can tell.

This actually reminds me...my daughter has a friend who has super curly hair... she has a twin sister who has probably 2b hair that looks longer, but this girl's probably a 3b or 3c. Anyway, I was just so curious how long it was I asked her if I could stretch a curl :D. She probably thought I was mad lol (she's 10 haha). But her hair is probably 10" longer than her twin sister's but looks shorter because she's got these super tight curls!

[pepperminttea]

"Cheating" is a strong word. To me it implies a certain malicious intent, and unless you're trying to garotte someone with it, hair really isn't that serious. :p As long as you enjoy your hair, what does it matter?

[Madora]

@Pepperminttea..

Well said!!

[Mesmerise]

"Cheating" is a strong word. To me it implies a certain malicious intent, and unless you're trying to garotte someone with it, hair really isn't that serious. :p As long as you enjoy your hair, what does it matter?

Well I agree to a certain extent. As I said earlier, I think it's only "cheating" if you are deliberately misrepresenting your hair! If you're on LHC telling people you've got 36" hair when you've got extensions in your 24" hair, then you ARE cheating. If you admit that you wear extensions, you're not. It's when you're actually lying that I think you're cheating... but again... there's really only one person you're cheating and that's yourself!

[Lianna]

So would blow drying my hair or ironing my hair to waist length be cheating? That is ridiculous IMHO.

If you curl your hair in rag curls or pin curls do you then have to say it is only as long as it falls when curly?

You quoted me, so if you're asking me, I said in the original post I only think it's cheating when people add fake hair. But I wonder if it's right for someone to lie and say their perfect frizziless rag curls are theirs. Some curly (with natural frizz) might think there's something wrong with her/his hair.


I don't even really mind if people with extensions want to pretend it's their own hair. Now if they were to start giving out advice on how to care for long hair...that would be a different story!:D

People with short hair might read and learn things too. Someone who wears extensions in real life and post their real hair here is fine with me. I wore extensions but didn't take pictures of it, it's also nice to see people with extensions here, someone might learn how they put in, blend, even good places to buy, etc.


Extensions? Then yes, cheating. Wigs? Obvious cheating and ruins the whole point of being here of they claim to be growing their wig out?. But it's their own profile anyways and the way they want other people to perceive them, not my deal.

And photoshopping? Seriously? It's just hair. Again, if that's how they want people to see them, their deal.

The thread was about how we see people in real life too, not just their profiles here. People might post their wigs here just to share that's how they look in a wig or even help people how to wear a wig (some can be very tricky like lace fronts).


-

Extensions aren't necessarily bad. Some can be, like the glue-in that can brake your hair when taking it out, or sew-ins that are too tight. Or when people wear them past their "expiration date" aka hair too grown out (that's bad for the roots). Most clip-ins are totally fine, but people with fine hair should be really careful or just avoid it really. There are people in other forums who wear extensions as protective styles, they actually can help people grow their hair longer.

Photoshop isn't just to change a picture completly, but to make it better, and it doesn't have to alter the reality. In my case I always fix the light in all my photos (hair or not). It looks more like the reality this way.

[growingpains]

The wikipedia definition:

"Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

Given this definition, we can assume that:
a) the rules are unwritten, therefor determining cheating is definitely a subjective process, in other words: no one person's opinion or definition is more valid than another's here;
b) the "broken rule" is something along the lines of 'doing something *unnatural* in order to have longer, nicer, or better looking hair, with the possible advantage of hair envy or admiration from others IRL'. The trick is defining unnatural. Is adding faking hair unnatural? What about if the fake hair is needed for health reasons (i.e. hair loss from cancer)? Is something as common and socially acceptable as hair dye cheating? It is after all unnatural. What about straigtening irons? Or what about wrapping? What about hair cuts for that matter? It does afterall alter the natural state!

My point is natural and altered are very much socially constructed terms that are subject to social norms of the day.

Personally, I think extensions are "cheating" insofar as it's a quick fix or shortcut that may offer some benefit. But I think "cheating" is the wrong word. I think cheating implies some degree or malice of intent, so frankly, whether or not someone is "cheating" by having long hair is a mute point in my opinion. I mean really? What competitive advantage would said person have?

In the broadest sense cheating in sports or school is not condoned because it is unfair. It disadvantages those of us who do not cheat since we don't reap the same quick fix benefits. But really? Hair? Who cares if X person is "cheating" by wearing extensions. I don't think I or anyone else is disadvantaged by that!

[juliaxena]

For me, claiming a lenght with streched hair, wet hair, or when not all of the hair is a particular lenght and they claim it (bangs and U shape excluded), for example just a mullet reaches shoulder and they say shoulder. And of course wigs, extensions. But that's just me, I'm strict :D I even hesitated to call my hair neck lenght when I had a ton of layers. I cut it off to chin to even it all out just to be able, for me, to call it the lenght it was at. Ok, not just for that, I also hate layers, they don't become me. As for curls, I love them, but to be honest, curly hair just does not look waist lenght just because it reaches waist when wet. It looks the lenght it looks. Unless a person mostly wears it wet. Not meaning to offend anyone, whatever makes people happy, it is after all just hair.



I'd like to know some opinions. When is someone cheating? When they claim a length with stretched hair and not their natural wavy/curly hair? This is quite popular here, I've read some people say they feel like they're cheating.

How about hair alterations like relaxers, perms, BKT's, dyes or even basic styling with hot tools or braid waves/cold rollers? How about the sock bun?! Or that bun that you wrap around a big claw clip?

I personally feel like it's only "cheating" when someone actually adds hair extensions/wigs.

[BlueMuse]

I guess I don't really have a problem with any of the above, unless someone is using them (makeup, extensions, etc) to make other people feel inferior or not as pretty, but I would be pretty peeved if someone was doing that regardless. Also, just lying and saying "it's my real hair" "no makeup, my face just looks like this all the time" always kind of bothers me because it's just dishonest. People that just brush it off and refuse to answer by beating around the bush, on the other hand, don't bother me at all because really, it's not my business.

Along the lines of extensions, I have a little decorative pony band of braids and curls. I wore it quite a few times in high school around a bun to create a very frilly looking, complicated hair style. The extension blended so well that people usually thought it was my real hair (and constantly wondered how I could show up to gym class and have all the braids and curls gone, and then magically have them again after class).

One girl really freaked out when I took the extension out when she asked me how I did my hair. It was funny! I hadn't expected such a strong response. Two of my little cousins also reacted the same way, except I took it out and they actually decided to go about defending me from it and killing it (gently) with sticks.

I hadn't thought anything of it. Didn't seem weird at all to me, but it was super funny to watch some people react to the "not my real hair" thing.

[Mesmerise]

The wikipedia definition:

"Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

Given this definition, we can assume that:
a) the rules are unwritten, therefor determining cheating is definitely a subjective process, in other words: no one person's opinion or definition is more valid than another's here;
b) the "broken rule" is something along the lines of 'doing something *unnatural* in order to have longer, nicer, or better looking hair, with the possible advantage of hair envy or admiration from others IRL'. The trick is defining unnatural. Is adding faking hair unnatural? What about if the fake hair is needed for health reasons (i.e. hair loss from cancer)? Is something as common and socially acceptable as hair dye cheating? It is after all unnatural. What about straigtening irons? Or what about wrapping? What about hair cuts for that matter? It does afterall alter the natural state!

My point is natural and altered are very much socially constructed terms that are subject to social norms of the day.

Personally, I think extensions are "cheating" insofar as it's a quick fix or shortcut that may offer some benefit. But I think "cheating" is the wrong word. I think cheating implies some degree or malice of intent, so frankly, whether or not someone is "cheating" by having long hair is a mute point in my opinion. I mean really? What competitive advantage would said person have?

In the broadest sense cheating in sports or school is not condoned because it is unfair. It disadvantages those of us who do not cheat since we don't reap the same quick fix benefits. But really? Hair? Who cares if X person is "cheating" by wearing extensions. I don't think I or anyone else is disadvantaged by that!

I don't think it's cheating IRL if someone wears extensions. That's their choice and they're not necessarily trying to prove anything. They may just want longer hair than they've got!

I only see it as cheating if they're on LHC and pretending to have something they don't have. And honestly, I think very few people here would do that!

[tolly]

I have 4a/4b hair and in one year all I have grown is 4inches, when my haair is wet with conditioner you can see that length but when it dries, it doesn't look any longer than 0.5 inches,so without stretching my hair growth in one year is less than 0.5inch? the stretched out length also varies with products and how wet my hair is...there's no way I can take accurate measurements to access progress without stretching

[LunaMoon]

I have been reading new posts on the "maine forum" and sometimes I think people just don't know what APL, for exemple, is supposed to be.
They came asking "Am I APL already?" when they are just shoulder length. People answer "almost there!" or "yes, It is APL fot me!".
Sometimes people came so exited saying "Finnaly reach APL/BSL! wow I am soooo happy!" And people don't want to be the messenger of bad news and agree... So they really think they are.
About hair extensions, it fine for me (I never used!) but it is an individual option. What is considered cheating is people taking pics of an APL hair and after 3 months showing an almost waist hair pic as was their natural grow. This is cheating.
Also, If me, with my acne, start taking pictures of my skin wearing make up (or using photoshop) and going to some skin care forum to show how perfect is my skin, this will be cheating as well. If I am wearing make up just to go out, for me is just decorating...
The problem about changing the reality here in the forum is more about hair care routines... If you show pics of a kind of hair is not the real one and talk about the routine you use for your real hair, this is just messing up the other ones with real hair that is similar with the fake pics.
It is normal we look at the similar hair albuns, for sharing and asking about hair care. If the pics or the info about the hair is not real, doesn't help anybody and people can start purchasing and using the wrong products because of this.
About streching hair:
If this is a concern, the forum has to change the measurement based in inches in our profile, for exemple. I am used with cm and I am lazy to measure my hair, so I use the term BSL to talk about my hair length, but what is asked in the profile info are the inches...

[kitschy]

You quoted me, so if you're asking me, I said in the original post I only think it's cheating when people add fake hair. But I wonder if it's right for someone to lie and say their perfect frizziless rag curls are theirs. Some curly (with natural frizz) might think there's something wrong with her/his hair.





Well, now that you mention it, back in the 80's and 90's some people would perm their hair (badly) then claim it was 'natural' curl. It drove me nuts, and yes, I did think of it as cheating. It isn't so much of a problem now since styles are sleeker. Occasionally I run into someone who asks if I perm my hair and I say...."really?"

[gthlvrmx]

Oh i thought this was about when people on here say things like "I've just reached my next goal! Look at my long shiny hair" *puts on wig/extension* or something like that.
That's the only time i think it will matter to me, other than that, i don't think it matters too much.

[chahuahuas]

I've just realized: if curlies measured their hair without stretching, the length of their hair would change from day to day! There would be no way to report it in the forums. My hair curls up much more depending on what product I use, and how many days I've been wearing it (the curls sometimes loosen, especially with pony tails.) I don't want to have to say "I just showered, so I'm APL today, but yesterday I was BSL...." !

[Mamakash]

I have never changed my stats(even though I've gained a tiny bit of thickness and have grown several more inches). I'm sure they would vary from day to day and depend on what I've used/when I've washed. It's always a changing variable, so I never yell "I got waves!" when they are gone by the next day. My wispy ends are touching waist, but it isn't what I would call waist. Sometimes I think it's funny when members are anxiously taking pictures at tilted angles and trying to define their length. If it makes them happy, I wouldn't correct them, I just don't feel comfortable in overstating my hair!

[Bene]

The wikipedia definition:

"Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

Given this definition, we can assume that:
a) the rules are unwritten, therefor determining cheating is definitely a subjective process, in other words: no one person's opinion or definition is more valid than another's here;
b) the "broken rule" is something along the lines of 'doing something *unnatural* in order to have longer, nicer, or better looking hair, with the possible advantage of hair envy or admiration from others IRL'. The trick is defining unnatural. Is adding faking hair unnatural? What about if the fake hair is needed for health reasons (i.e. hair loss from cancer)? Is something as common and socially acceptable as hair dye cheating? It is after all unnatural. What about straigtening irons? Or what about wrapping? What about hair cuts for that matter? It does afterall alter the natural state!

My point is natural and altered are very much socially constructed terms that are subject to social norms of the day.

Personally, I think extensions are "cheating" insofar as it's a quick fix or shortcut that may offer some benefit. But I think "cheating" is the wrong word. I think cheating implies some degree or malice of intent, so frankly, whether or not someone is "cheating" by having long hair is a mute point in my opinion. I mean really? What competitive advantage would said person have?

In the broadest sense cheating in sports or school is not condoned because it is unfair. It disadvantages those of us who do not cheat since we don't reap the same quick fix benefits. But really? Hair? Who cares if X person is "cheating" by wearing extensions. I don't think I or anyone else is disadvantaged by that!


Wiki isn't the only source of information, and certainly not for the definitions of words. Cheating also is used to describe deceit, tricking, or artifice, and not necessarily in a competition or a gaming situation. It certainly doesn't imply malice, just lying.


For example, the flat iron. If someone is naturally a curly, but then flat irons their hair in EVERY picture they take and then put it in their profile that they're a 1a, that's cheating by lying. It's one thing to say "I'm a curly, but I straighten my hair to check the actual length and to gauge progress", it's another thing to claim that their hair is that way on it's own. I can understand the former because curly hair is unpredictable, and the only real way to measure and to get and accurate reading it is to straighten or pull it down. The latter is just ridiculous.



And really :laugh: I can't imagine anyone NEEDING fake hair if they lost it from chemo. They may want to have some, for personal reasons such as just wanting to go about their business without attracting undo attention, but fake hair isn't going to cure them of cancer.



But if you want to speak of the broken rule, it's a general faith of what we're seeing. It's not a competition, but they are asking us to respond in a certain way, but are giving us an untruth to respond to. It's like posting a picture of yourself, but then it's not you. Or making claims about something that aren't true. A lot of people come here for information, so if someone is practically bald on one day, then comes back next week like "OMG, I tried this new product and I gained 5 inches", and uses extensions or wigs to show their progress, it's deceitful and misleading.


Think of the Monistat thread. That thing is hundreds of posts long. The reason why is because people are going in there for actual information and real results from people. If someone were to go in there showing "progress" shots, but using extensions, they are undermining the whole point of the thread. And there is certainly no competitive advantage, but it's messed up to do to people who are genuinely interested in seeing results. And it takes credibility from people who have had REAL results.


I remember some time ago, someone showed up saying that she got a short hair cut to donate, and then like a week later said that the stylist took off too much. For whatever reason, the change of story wasn't looked well upon because it looked like a cheap attempt to get sympathy and attention. Especially when there are people who genuinely lost their hair to an over zealous stylist and are in need of some positive feedback.

[Vanilla Mint]

I think this entire thread is a bit silly, because "cheating" is a sort of villainous term. Wearing make-up is "cheating?" To whom? Onlookers who might stop and think "Oh, she's quite pretty!" How does that really affect anyone negatively? To be honest, unless someone is going to do a super-heavy-duty, full face of make-up, they're pretty much only enhancing what's already there.

Maybe things like extensions, false lashes, and fake nails are "cheating" because they're completely artificial, but at least to my eye, those things don't generally fool me (except maybe some really well done extensions.) I do have a pretty skeptical and astute eye, though... But then that makes me think that hair color should be added to that list as well! (Looks like this topic sucked me in regardless of my objections...)

But I do want to say that I'm really impressed with the lack of cattiness here. This sort of topic would've already imploded several times over with rudeness on any other site. This really is a forum full of great people. :)

[Bohemian Haze]

But I do want to say that I'm really impressed with the lack of cattiness here. This sort of topic would've already imploded several times over with rudeness on any other site. This really is a forum full of great people.

(Hope I did the quote thing right!)

Just wanted to second what Vanilla Mint said. It's why I joined here - during my many lurks (lol), I noticed how positive and fair people were here.

[Maverick494]

I was actually quite (happily) surprised when it comes to the natural honesty in people.

- Ask people with blonde hair if that's their real haircolour and the bottle blondes will easily admit that they dye their hair
- Ask people wearing extensions if that's their real hair, they will tell you the truth.
- Ask people with seemingly flawless skin how they do it, those wearing foundation will tell you which brand they're using.
- Ask people wearing coloured contacts if that's their real eyecolour and most of them will admit they're wearing contacts. I've only known one girl who swore it was her real eyecolour when it was obvious it was not. She was still in highschool so I think maturity levels had something to do with that.

The above statements are based on my own experience. Only the deeply insecure would lie about these things.

I don't consider anyone a cheater unless they lie about what they do and claim it to be all natural. :p

Even so, the line is blurry. If a flat chested woman gets a very natural looking boob job, why would she advertise to the world that she has implants? If she keeps quiet about that I wouldn't necessarily call her a cheater. After all, what she wants to share is her business. And when people who have literally transformed their faces due to plastic surgery deny it while it's painfully obvious, the only person they're cheating on is themselves, in my opinion. ;)

Wigs same thing. I can understand that people who have cancer or another medical condition that made them lose their hair don't want to be confronted with it every time they look into the mirror or catch people staring. Wearing a wig, for them, is enabling them to move along the crowds like a regular person, without the stamp of illness on them. This often also helps them deal with their condition and who am I to deny them that?

So the bottom line of this long ramble:
Part of what makes a real cheater a cheater in my opinion is when they hurt someone with their actions. Since people wearing extensions, getting plastic surgery, claiming their hair is longer than it is, aren't hurting anyone, I wouldn't consider them cheaters. :)

[curlycrocheter]

I don't post often (read: at all) but this thread was eye opening and funny. My hair is very curly and very dense. It's currently about 2 inches from WL. But according to some people, I can only claim collar bone length/shoulder on a good day/APL if I'm doing something extremely right.

So by this standard I'll only be able to claim WL when my straight hair measures Knee Length. Gotcha ;)

[racrane]

Hmn, I definitely don't try to cheat. I know sometimes because I take my own pictures my hair appears slightly longer but I'm more putting them up every month to see how the health improves. I know the length will follow. I only consider extensions cheating.

[suraque]

I don't post often (read: at all) but this thread was eye opening and funny. My hair is very curly and very dense. It's currently about 2 inches from WL. But according to some people, I can only claim collar bone length/shoulder on a good day/APL if I'm doing something extremely right.

So by this standard I'll only be able to claim WL when my straight hair measures Knee Length. Gotcha ;)

I'm having this EXACT same problem.

It's like

is my hair going to be considered 'short' for forever..because no matter how long it is, it never falls past my shoulders? :confused:

[UltraBella]

It just dawned on me that...........
I am a giant cheater !!!!
I have permanent eyeliner and eyebrows. So, my brows and liner always look perfect ! I have pointed it out several times on different threads when I have posted makeup free pics, so no one thinks I am trying to pull a fast one. But inevitably someone does not read the whole thing and then calls me on it saying it looks like I am wearing eyeliner..... And then I point out, once again, that yep, I have permanent makeup. So even when I am NOT wearing makeup, I *am* wearing makeup, lol !

[Carolyn]

It just dawned on me that...........
I am a giant cheater !!!!
I have permanent eyeliner and eyebrows. So, my brows and liner always look perfect ! I have pointed it out several times on different threads when I have posted makeup free pics, so no one thinks I am trying to pull a fast one. But inevitably someone does not read the whole thing and then calls me on it saying it looks like I am wearing eyeliner..... And then I point out, once again, that yep, I have permanent makeup. So even when I am NOT wearing makeup, I *am* wearing makeup, lol !I don't think that's cheating at all. It's being a wise woman. I've seen you talk about it in several posts. You're very up front about it. It's not your fault if people don't read the whole post. It happens to me all the time.

[EtherealOde]

Personally I couldn't care less about what anyone thinks about what is or isn't cheating.We all have our own definition, or standards for our own conduct and in the end that's the only thing that really matters. Because we have no control over the honesty of anyone but ourselves, there really is no way to tell in most cases what the actual truth is versus what is presented to us as truth. So for me, cheating isn't the most accurate term to use for this discussion. The most accurate term would be honesty and truth in what is presented here as fact.

How one measures hair length is only dishonest if the poster represents their facts in an untruthful way. An example: I represent my hair length to be 17.5 inches. I measure my hair fron the hairline in front to the tips at the back, since that is the most accurate method of hair growth measurement according to most posters in this forum. Because my hair curls, I always measure when stretched, so I have the most consistently accurate measurement for my purposes. Currently my hair is layered, as I am growing out color in favor of my natural grey. The layers were to remove as much color as possible while leaving as much grey length as possible. These statements are all fact, and would allow anyone here to have a true picture of what my hair is or is not.

In the past, I didn't have layers, and bleached and dyed my hair to hide the grey.But I never represented my hair as anything it wasn't, disclosure being the key. If I had my hair as it is now, but put in extensions, or said my hair was 17.5 inches long when measured at its most curly state, or claimed to be anything other than what was actual fact, I would be dishonest. I would be representing as fact things that were not factual. This could possibly mislead others who might be looking for answers as to what might or might not work on their own hair.

Using products, curling or straightening methods (Though please please please use giant curlers to straighten, or wrapping, so you don't ruin your growth progress), combing versus fingers or brushing, dyes of any kind, or methods of styling is not cheating. What only matters is in how the individual represents their hair for the purposes of this forum and its readers. We only need to know what the facts are, because the purpose of this forum is to impart and share information on how we have managed to grow our hair. We need to be honest, so that methods can be evaluated accurately.

As long as there is full disclosure, then who gives a rat's crap about what someone chooses to do to their own hair? The only thing any of us should care about is the honesty of any post/poster.

[chen bao jun]

Bump.
I think this is an interesting (though old) discussion.

[leslissocool]

Well back when my hair was trashed (yes, trashed by straightening, bleached over 7 time and box dyed and it was just multicolored) everyone thought I had extensions because it was unevenly cut (which I did that to myself on top of chemical damage cut, I don't claim to have any talent at all, it was pretty horrible) . I cut it, then everyone thought I had a wig (because my textured CHANGED, suddenly I had curls, I stopped straightening it).

Now, even pictures like my siggy get extensions comments. I have a lot of hair, emo hair cuts look super thick on me, layers too unless they are very short and done in a certain way to thin them out.

It's gotten better now that I have my natural color, but I got asked a couple times already if my hair was real because it's so much of it. Add that to fast growth rate, and I'm letting people feel track marks and check.

My BFF got a lady swear her hair was fake! She was like " Lady, they don't make extensions this long". She's a hair stylist, her hair is longer than mine and she had it in a ponytail.


I personally could care less is someone stretches their hair to measure or does it wet. There is no rules really, not when I signed up, giving a criteria for curlies. I choose to just kind of let it air dry.

[teela1978]

Looking back at this thread, I don't really get it. There is no competition here. Therefore, how can you be cheating at anything? Talk about your hair however you want and be happy, don't worry if someone's pics are faked.

[Beborani]

Cheating whom, misrepresenting to who and why does it matter? Hair is hair and mostly it is about personal goals--how or what you do achieve it is no one else's business as long as it doesnt involve stealing!

[teela1978]

Cheating whom, misrepresenting to who and why does it matter? Hair is hair and mostly it is about personal goals--how or what you do achieve it is no one else's business as long as it doesnt involve stealing!

Thinking back, I think there may have been some (horribly) photoshopped photos on the site when this thread started. There was blowback in multiple forms at the time.

[trolleypup]

I don't understand why someone would lie about their hair length/type/thickness or photoshop it on this forum. Do they want to live vicariously in these forums as a long haired rapunzel?
Perceived status and respect? If you show up here with hair past classic the attention and reactions you get are very different from what someone with short(er) hair receives. Someone who craves attention might cheat (photoshop, using someone else's images, etc.)

[kiezel]

When I first saw the title to this post, I expected something like, "If my boyfriend plays with another girl's hair, is he cheating on me?"
Ahaha

[FuzzyBlackWaves]

I don't think anything is 'cheating'. Yes, some people wear fake hair - I don't personally because I don't like the feeling of it, but really, what have they cheated anybody else out of? A sense of accomplishment at having long natural hair? I don't think happiness should depend so much on what others chose to do with their bodies.

Also, lying is downright silly, because it serves no purpose except perhaps a superficial self esteem boost. But again, unless we're talking about projecting false ideals here I still don't think it's anything too terrible. It doesn't do anything to me personally if somebody measures their hair when it's wet or whatever (as for the tilting back, it's funny, I actually used to tilt forwards in my photos because I bend a bit that way naturally, I have to actively stand up straight and even for my hair pictures).

[Vintagecoilylocks]

Extensions, yes. Wigs are pretty obvious, and usually there due to hair loss or something, I don't even consider it in this. I also think maybe when people judge their length based on when it's wet, which can be quite a difference to what it actually is dry. I think also it's fine to stretch the hair and measure it and say it's so many inches, but to stretch it so that it hits a landmark (APL, BSL, WL, etc.) when it doesn't naturally fall there itself, and then to label your hair as such length, is a bit cheating. :) But whatever makes people happy. Sometimes it's nice to think you're somewhere you're not so you're not always wondering when you will be. :)

AS long as they are showing they are stretching it then we all know its only when straight it hits a certain part and not curly. Some people would never reach certain body parts curly unless it got to the floor. My hair only falls to my TbL because I braid. It is currently 3 inches past Classic and naturally it would be above Bra strap if I did not pull it or braid it. I do this in photo's to show growth progress. Other wise how would any one else see that i actually achieved a goal when I say I have. Inches is not a clear indication of the goals met for some of the threads because of our different body types and height. For example one person is calling FTP at 45 inches from hair line. If she is short or has short arms that may only mean 36 inches of hair from root to tip. For myself FTP is 50 inches from front hair line and I need 38 inches of hair from root to tip from my nape and 43 inches of hair from my crown to be at FTP. So inches in hair does not really tell me anything when people are setting goals of where their hair falls on their body. Most of the goal threads are based on where the hair touches the body.

[Marbid]

about that stretchy and curly length thing.....

I think both measurements are valid. One is the measurement of the hairs appearance in it's natural form. The other is the measurements of the hairs actual physical length. Both measurements, although different, seem completely valid to me. The issue is what is important to the person, the hairs actual physical length, or how long the hair looks.

As for wigs and extensions, yeah that's cheating. You can't say "my hair is such and such long" when that length comes from extensions or you are talking about a wig. That's not your hair.

[jacqueline101]

To me cheating would be more like wigs and so fourth. Holding your head way back.

[RedNymph]

When people lie about length, by forms of cheating if that makes sense? Like wet hair or extensions. My sister uses hair extensions so she can get creative with hair styles. She has arm pit hair length hair and she likes to experiment with hair styles so she doesn't have chop her hair. She uses extensions for bangs, and so she can do ombre hair. I mean I believe it's the effort and thought that counts. I like how hair can be an art form in certain contexts.

But when people lie about hair length and their extensions, that's a "cheat" for me.