Oil bad for hair?

[goldenwaves]

I know this girl who recently gave me a huge lecture about oil (we were talking about olive) being bad for hair. She said that it replaces the natural oil and then your hair relies on it and doesn't produce its own oils. However, she straightens her hair (with a product) and says there's nothing damaging about that (maybe there isn't?) so I'm not sure how much she knows. I'm almost certian she was going from advice by her very good hairdresser though...so I'm not sure! Anyone have any ideas? Suggestions? Knowledge? Advice? Are some oils better than others? Thanks heaps! :)

[Loreyanne_H]

When I hear about hairdressers' advices, summed with miracoulous product, summed to "every-natural-thing (aka henna, oils...)- is- bad I get suspicious. Actually...I don't oil my scalp but only my length: if I won't oil (or butter) them, they won't either get the natural oil from my scalp so...

[goldenwaves]

Yeah, good point! The hair on the length doesn't really get the scalp oil anyway! Thanks :)

[Phalaenopsis]

The only thing olive oil did for me was make my hair frizzy. So I think the oil only added some protein, not replace the sebum or something.

[Missie]

reading this post made me remember something, sometimes if you put too much oil on the length it goes sort of crunchy ? I wonder what is happening when our hair goes crunchy and if its risky.

[Nat242]

Phalaenopsis: Oils don't add protein, though some can help prevent protein loss :flowers:

Goldenwaves I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think your friend really knows what she's talking about. If you have an oily scalp, it may not be wise to add extra oil (although oil does dissolve oil, so in some circumstances it may be beneficial), and oiling the scalp can be beneficial to those that suffer from dry or itchy scalps.

Oiling the length of your hair helps seal in moisture, nothing more. When your hair is long, chances are that the oil your scalp naturally produces doesn't reach the ends of your hair, so those ends may need additional protection from moisture loss.

In addition, straightening your hair with a product is only marginally less damaging than straightening without. Heat styling is probably fine from time to time for most heads of hair - however frequent heat styling, with or without product, is bound to cause damage. If your friend keeps her hair short, then it's likely that she trims her hair before the damage becomes too apparent. For most long hairs, this isn't really an option.

If you (or your friend) need further convincing, you only need to look at the beautiful, healthy, long hair of many of our members who incorporate oils in their routines.

--Natalie

[rapunzhell13]

She says oiling your hair is damaging, but heat styling is not? I'd take her advice with a grain of salt...

Even hairdressers don't always know everything. I know, because I used to be one.

[Riot Crrl]

I was also wondering how the oil glands would investigate my ends and find out there was oil on them.

[Nat242]

reading this post made me remember something, sometimes if you put too much oil on the length it goes sort of crunchy ? I wonder what is happening when our hair goes crunchy and if its risky.

This "crunchiness" may be due to using an oil that your hair doesn't "like". Also, as oils seal moisture in, they also seal moisture out. This is why some people find that oiling damp hair reduces crunchiness, because the oil has some moisture to trap in.

Also, some oils are absorbed by the hair better than others. Some oils aren't absorbed at all - they just "sit" on top of the hair.

HTH!

-- Natalie

[Missie]

thanks Nat, that was a really good answer

[BittSweetCherry]

I imagine she's using the kind of logic the Beauty Brains would rip into. Certainly, skin will adapt to the moisturizing/overwashing input that we might accidentally do and regulate oil production and cellular turnover rates (including for lips - see their post on being 'addicted' to lipbalm), but hair doesn't work the same way.

Hair is dead. Excluding the root, hair is nonsensical to what happens to it, and doesn't send messages to glands or anywhere else to regulate sebum production. Overwashing might cause excessive sebum production, but it would be the scalp that is aware of feeling too clean and causing the reaction. There might be some truth in not wanting to oil the scalp, although many here have found it beneficial and I find residual CO on my fingers softens and helps spread sebum down the shaft a bit, but oiling the length will attract no change to sebum production in your scalp because the latter is oblivious to what you are doing.

Oiling the length means taking on a role that your natural oils cannot do because your hair is too long now and washed (with surfacants) far more often than our bodies have evolved to expect, and have not adjusted to less sebum build-up over time. If your hair is bsl or longer I doubt those longer sections have seen sebum in a long, long time, and you are not so much replacing natural oils as making up for the lack of natural oils.


I've sat through some very poor advice this week about hair care from a couple of blowfried individuals. They told me (unsolicited) that my hair looked okay, but I always did it boring, and it was shiny but I just had to wash the shine serum out the day I used it otherwise it would go dull and matted and blah blah BLAH. It was coconut oil on the ends for DD3, and I can get away without washing my hair for at least one, if not two, days more.

Sometimes it boils down to having fashionable but damaged hair versus healthy but minimally-styled (and probably untrendy) hair :shrug:. Given fashion only lasts 6 months I know which I'd rather have.

[Riot Crrl]

Lol, they thought you had FrizzEase or something but it was coconut oil? :D

I agree with your post BittSweetCherry. By the time I could get any natural oil to the ends, months would have gone by and they would have broken off anyway.

[liseling]

Well put, bittsweetcherry, I was just about to write something similar about skin vs. hair. I've met a lot of people who think that hair is as alive and responsive as skin when that simply isn't so. If more people realized that hair is a fragile dead fiber that we produce which is physically incapable of healing itself then I bet more people would take better care of their hair instead of relying on products that supposedly "repair damage".

[goldenwaves]

Thanks so much everyone! I KNEW you'd have better advice than her! I couldn't believe that she said I was wrong to put oil in my hair, and that it was OK to straighten it! By the way, I didn't agree with her, just wanted to check! Thanks everyone; I think I'll go and oil my hair now!!

[FrannyG]

Looking at your hair, Goldenwaves, it looks like you're doing everything right. Your hair is beyond beautiful, and I don't think you need outside advice from anyone. :flowers:

[Riot Crrl]

Looking at your hair, Goldenwaves, it looks like you're doing everything right. Your hair is beyond beautiful, and I don't think you need outside advice from anyone. :flowers:

Well, and that too of course. It was certainly implied :)

[30isthenewblack]

Looking at your hair, Goldenwaves, it looks like you're doing everything right. Your hair is beyond beautiful, and I don't think you need outside advice from anyone. :flowers:

She's called Goldenwaves for a reason Ms Fanny G :D

[ChloeDharma]

Ok, first of all i completely agree with what Franny said about your hair :flower:

Right, oiling:

Even if you are oiling your scalp......the scalp is skin so it does need some care. I wonder does she not believe in using moisturiser? Many many people oil there hair and scalp.....Women in India have been doing it for.....well alot longer than this girl has been alive put it that way. It protects the length and in the case of coconut oil penetrates the shaft, prevents keratin loss during washing, and as a leave in contrary to popular belief has a moisturising effect by acting as a diffuser to moisture loss, slowing down the transfer in and out of the hair rapidly so overall keeping moisture levels up.
It also replaces EFA's that over time are lost from the hair shaft.

Heat styling:

Ok so you say straightening....i assume you mean with hot-plates? It's been said before but i'll repeat it anyway.....those things reach temperatures in the region of 200 degrees C, some even more.....water boils at 100 deg C, and hair when in normal condition once dried contains roughlt 10% water......so yup, that water in contact with that temperature at the very least evaporates and leaves the hair, meaning the hair hasn't the amount of water in it that it naturally needs. At worst the sudden rise in temperature causes the water to swell, and if there is no exit for it, it ruptures the hair shaft to cause one.

Now i don't care who it is, but anybody who says oiling is bad for the hair as a blanket rule (i'm realising that some peoples hair does react negatively to oils but thats usually fairly obvious when it happens) but that straightening with heat is healthy.......i wouldn't listen to anything else they say about hair.

[Dulci]

Here's the link (http://www.pioneerthinking.com/frizzies.html) to an interesting article, the author does not believe oil is good for hair, she says hair needs moisture (water) not oil.

[burns_erin]

Biologically, the idea with homeostasis and all does make sense. I will say that most people here do not fall into her:

Optimum condition...
For hair to be in tiptop conditioner is has to have a moisture (water) content of at least 8%, and the right balance of protein and natural oil. Most of us produce enough natural oil (sebum), to keep our hair healthy, but lack the moisture.

Because of the extra long length. Also, people seem to agree that they may need humectants (SMT's anyone). ALso, most people agree here that the oil is not really "moisturizing" the hair perse, as stopping is from losing moisture. There also seem to be many advocates of oiling when hair is damp to trap more moisture in.

Overall that article does make good sense, it just leaves out the good things oil can do for ones hair.

[Riot Crrl]

Most of us produce enough natural oil (sebum), to keep our hair healthy

I don't think I could manage this unless my hair was only a few inches long.

[burns_erin]

I don't think I could manage this unless my hair was only a few inches long.

Precisely, and most people I know have hair that is only maybe 8 inches long and they cut the ends off regularly. So I am sure no real need for oil for them.

[Fencai]

I got a micro-trim on sunday (because my hubby is still a little too afraid to trim mine for me).
the hairdresser started by telling me how bad henna is for my hair *rolls eyes* and then proceeded to tell me that the coconut oil is too harsh and that I should be using avocado oil and then *magically* produces the over priced bottle of shampoo (with alcohols and 'cones) that has the avocado oil in it.
I actually started laughing! I couldnt help it! I felt like I had my own private infomercial!
I composed myself, and politely declined, but she made sure to put it in my record to buy it next time!

I personally love the coconut oil, and use just a teensey bit in the very ends of my hair. Works like a charm! But, as with most things, its not for everyone!

[ChloeDharma]

I'd say overall i agree with that article, though i do find some of the information....not so much incorrect, but more generalising.

"Hot oil treatments...

Traditions have taught many of us that lavishly applying oil to our hair will give us the soft, shiny hair that we all desire. However more often than not, the opposite takes place. Most oils if they are not essential oils do not have the ability to penetrate into the hair shaft. Nor do heavy cholesterols. What they will do, is to lay on top of the cuticle, and coat the cuticle. This may give the hair some Brilliance. However, it will also coat the hair. And causes product build up."

I can understand the author saying this if they specified mineral oil for example (it's important to remember these articles are written for people without much understanding of hair, and many think "baby oil" when chosing an oil for their skin or hair.
But we know that certain oils do penetrate the hair, such as coconut, olive etc.

Also at least coconut oil has been shown to not form the impenetrable barrier that people previously thought (and many still do) but rather forms a kind of diffuser preventing the water evaporating so quickly, but, also allowing moisture from the atmosphere into the hair....again just at a slower rate. Here's a link explaining it better than i can :p

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/ics/2008/00000030/00000001/art00010

Fencai.....avocado oil is fabulous in my experience, but you can simply buy the virgin avocado oil in the supermarket......don't be pressurised by anyone into buying a product you don't want, and to be honest the stuff your hairdresser was trying to sell you would probably only have a drop of refined cosmetic grade avocado oil in anyway.

[Shell]

I was also wondering how the oil glands would investigate my ends and find out there was oil on them.

Ahh, I was wondering this too! Hair is technically dead, so doesn't "adjust" to anything. The scalp is, of course, another story.

Oils could be bad for some people's hair. Heat styling is bad for everyone's hair. I often see ads that claim that heat styling (and coloring) are good for hair and necessary. I'm just not buying into it. Some people's hair can withstand those things, but they are not good for anyone's hair.

ETA: The powers that be have decided that you can't be addicted to lip balm--after scaring everyone. Never mind.

[Riot Crrl]

I assure you, I'm addicted to lip balm. But I checked the ingredients of all mine and would you care to venture a guess as to what the first ingredient is on all of them?

Sigh. I guess I will have to shop for new lip balm.

[ChloeDharma]

I assure you, I'm addicted to lip balm. But I checked the ingredients of all mine and would you care to venture a guess as to what the first ingredient is on all of them?

Sigh. I guess I will have to shop for new lip balm.

I don't know where you are, but desert essence do a lovely lip balm with shea butter, no petrochemicals (i'm assuming the ingredient you mean is petrolium jelly?) Or you could make your own?

[BittSweetCherry]

The PioneerThinking page is reasonably good, but it blasts oils a little unfairly and doesn't discriminate between the many kinds of oils and their varying functions and interactions with hair follicles. Its overall message is, to paraphrase, "take good care of your hair and then all treatments in balance," and that means oil and moisture. They just push the moisture line a little too hard, probably because they're advertising the neglected ingredient in hair care.

Also, they say this:

Treatment conditioners that contain wheat, rice or corn proteins will repair damaged cuticles, improve porosity, elasticity and general health and appearance of your hair.

This is a bit misleading: protein don't repair damage - nothing can. Protein, cones, lubricants, etc. mostly only aid the appearance and malleability of hair. Trust me, smoothing a cuticle down if only temporarily is good - the real benefit of CO for me is as a lubricant, which is important on cone-free fine hair - but it should not be misrepresented as a cure.

[Riot Crrl]

I don't know where you are, but desert essence do a lovely lip balm with shea butter, no petrochemicals (i'm assuming the ingredient you mean is petrolium jelly?) Or you could make your own?

Yeah, some form of petrolatum is first on all of them. A lot of them also have menthol which is probably adding to the "addictiveness." I have some unrefined shea butter, maybe I'll try to just use that.

[jojo]

My hair and scalp love olive oil and looks good off it, I get no scalp problems, did in the past using coney serums though.

If your hair looks good (and boy does it look healthy), feels good and has a good shine to it, its not doing you harm. My hair has never been so healthy and I credit this a lot to regular oiling.

[crebbsgirl]

I have been using Extra Virgin Coconut oil on my hair as a pre-shampoo treatment and have noticed a definite difference. I can actually get a comb through now, and it doesn't look near as frizzy. I've been doing it maybe monthly or so and haven't noticed my hair getting drier in between. I hope this helps :)

[Oskimosa]

I assure you, I'm addicted to lip balm. But I checked the ingredients of all mine and would you care to venture a guess as to what the first ingredient is on all of them?

Sigh. I guess I will have to shop for new lip balm.


IF I may be so bold so as to make a suggestion...
I find that the chagrin valley lip balms are fabulous, feel much like petroleum jelly but nicer. I always liked the feel of chapstick, though... I will probably keep using those whenever I go outside because they have SPF and my lips can burn easy.

I also used to use hot jojoba oil from the beauty supply store on my length and thought it helped a bit but in retrospect I don't think there was much difference when I did or did not use it. Yuck, I thought the placenta oil did better. I only bought that because at the time I had no idea what placenta oil was.

[Shell]

I assure you, I'm addicted to lip balm. But I checked the ingredients of all mine and would you care to venture a guess as to what the first ingredient is on all of them?

Sigh. I guess I will have to shop for new lip balm.

Maybe I should say that it's not harmful. It's okay to use lip balm regularly. The petroleum products are at your discretion.

[Kirin]

Petroleum products such as mineral oil are certainly not the "devil" of all oils. Though it doesn't penetrate into the hair shaft, those with fragile hair can certainly USE such a barrier against friction damage, and elemental, which it protects against very well.

In fact, petroeum based oils and waxes are chosen for skin/hair care products because out of most oil bases it has the least incidents of a bad user reaction.

Your choice to use a petroleum based product should lie in your personal beliefs on using things that are fossil generated.

[girlcat36]

I usually avoid all things petroleum based; I have for years, actually.But I do have a big tub of Eucerin leftover from radiation treatment(that was the only thing allowed to treat my burnt skin). I started using this on my hair this week out of frustration and it has turned out to be amazing for my hair! Despite the petroleum base.
Maybe a little petroleum isn't so bad.:rolleyes:

[WaimeaWahine]

I've used a pomade made specifically for African American
hair forever. Long before pomade became popular for people
of all races.

They make a heavier waxier version and a very light and
oily version. The base of both is petroleum/oil. It may not
be right for everyone's hair but I've enjoyed the waxy coat
it leaves (2 days) whether my hair be shaved short or as
long as it is now. I think the light version has coconut oil.

Because I swim and surf the "wax" coats my hair and repels
bad things - like chlorine, which is very harsh. Also good
at taming fly aways/frizz, adding shine, plus it's really cheap.
Looking forward to trying some of the many suggestions
mentioned here. :)

[Rae~]

I assure you, I'm addicted to lip balm. But I checked the ingredients of all mine and would you care to venture a guess as to what the first ingredient is on all of them?

Sigh. I guess I will have to shop for new lip balm.

[Completely OT]

Riot Grrl, there is this awesome papaya ointment that I buy as a lip balm; I have a tube for every handbag I own, pretty much, as well as a couple of extras. :D I can't remember when you are, but perhaps you might be able to find something similar. It's SO good.

[/Completely OT]

[Riot Crrl]

[Completely OT]

Riot Grrl, there is this awesome papaya ointment that I buy as a lip balm; I have a tube for every handbag I own, pretty much, as well as a couple of extras. :D I can't remember when you are, but perhaps you might be able to find something similar. It's SO good.

[/Completely OT]

LOL. Well I have since remembered (since I talked about using shea butter) that a high SPF is kinda important to me for this. Ow burned lips. So I may just be going with Burt's Bees or something. Once I use up these evil Carmex, etc.

And I'm in Seattle, WA, USA.

[Rae~]

Yeah, that's the ONE thing I don't like about this balm - no SPF. If I'm out in the sun at all, I use SPF30+ instead. Having both in one would be a lot more convenient.

But for inside, my lips feel like a baby's bottom. :D Heh.

[goldenwaves]

Thanks for the awesome replies and suggestions everyone! And Franny G, your comment seriously cheered me up so much. I really appreciate it!!

I use a chapstick with SPF 30+. I'll have to go and check the ingredients now!! :)

[getoffmyskittle]

Looking at your hair, Goldenwaves, it looks like you're doing everything right. Your hair is beyond beautiful, and I don't think you need outside advice from anyone. :flowers:

I completely agree with Franny, and I would also like to toss in my own two cents: never take hair advice (ETA: especially if they're telling you that you're doing something wrong) from someone whose hair looks more damaged than your own, unless they are telling you that what you're currently doing is what damaged their hair. :shrug:

ETA again: I LOVE oils and I would never consider stopping using them just because someone else told me they were "bad for my hair."

[Mandie]

I found the one time I tried to use oil on my hair (well first of all I nearly fainted, it was weird) I got soooooooo greasy. But I'm pretty sure that's because I have a naturally oily scalp, and my hair was short at the time. This thread caught my eye because I'm about to start up with the oiling again, so glad to see it's not bad. LOL!