Native American Hair Care

[orangeeyecrayon]

I have been really getting into my family's history lately. I am a lakota sioux indian (about 1/8 so not much but i still think it is rather cool) any way i was looking on line for a few hours last night, both on LHC and the internet in general for information on Native american Hair care. I was unable to find any information on what herbs and such were used to care for there hair. (i would of been happy for any information on beauty routines).

I found 2 sites that had shampoos for sale claiming they used native american traditional herbs and recipees but they did not state what was in them at all, and i would rather make my own recipes.

If any one knows of any good informational sites, or has any information themselves that would be amazing.

[JessTheMess]

I don't have any information on any type of herbal haircare tips, but I think it's awesome that you found Native American heritage in your family history. My grandmom was half Cherokee and half Welsh. I think that is where I get some of the extra coarse black hairs that manage to pop into my tresses. Good luck in your hunt!

[danacc]

I found the following on Cherokee hair care here http://www.peacefulharmony.org/native%20american/healingplants2.htm (http://www.peacefulharmony.org/native%20american/healingplants2.htm):

6. DISTAI'YÏ = "they (the roots) are tough"--Tephrosia Virginiana--Catgut, Turkey Pea, Goat's Rue, or Devil's Shoestrings: Decoction drunk for lassitude. Women wash their hair in decoction of its roots to prevent its breaking or falling out, because these roots are very tough and hard to break; from the same idea ball-players rub the decoction on their limbs after scratching, to toughen them. Dispensatory: Described as a cathartic with roots tonic and aperient.

There's also this book: http://books.google.com/books?id=UXaQat5icHUC which includes plants used for hair care and a lot of other information on how they were used, too.

I've read that yucca root was used by some Native American tribes, but I didn't see a reference when I searched.

[orangeeyecrayon]

Danacc thank you for the book refrence i am actually going to borders today so i am definately going to pick it up. i looked at it a bit online but i think it will be easier to cross refrence if i can highlight it and actually hold it in my hands

[CurlyOne]

This is interesting, I did digging into native american herbs a while ago. I know that in the southwest where yucca grows they used the root of young plants to make shampoo. The root contains saponins in it. Basically you peel the bark off the root and rub it like a bar of soap in a pan of shallow warm water. This makes suds which you apply and rub in. I played around with it for a little bit and was very pleased with the initial results but it snowed and I really didn't feel like digging for shampoo in February.

[Flaxen]

Here's (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/mystery/american/navajoland/yucca.html) a story about what CurlyOne is referring to. You can buy dried yucca root (Mountain Rose Herbs) and simmer 2 T. in 1 cup of water to make a shampoo if you don't have access to the fresh (the stuff in some grocery stores is not the right stuff).

Let us know how it works for you if you try it! :grin:

[orangeeyecrayon]

i may have to try it. i asked my mom today and she said she would let me grow my own herb garden in the back yard so i may do that so i can get the fresh stuff

[Sapphire'sWings]

Huh, I just found out that this is the stuff my family and I eat! We call it yuca, but I didn't know it was that. We usually get ours frozen at the supermarket or fresh too. I'm interested in washing with this, but it seems too inconvenient in my case.

[Flaxen]

Huh, I just found out that this is the stuff my family and I eat! We call it yuca, but I didn't know it was that. We usually get ours frozen at the supermarket or fresh too. I'm interested in washing with this, but it seems too inconvenient in my case.
No, it's not the same plant.:flower:

Yuca, also called cassava root, is from the Euphorbiaceae family, and it is the starchy tuber found in grocery stores. Yucca is from the Agavaceae family, and its roots are almost never edible.

[Sapphire'sWings]

No, it's not the same plant.:flower:

Yuca, also called cassava root, is from the Euphorbiaceae family, and it is the starchy tuber found in grocery stores. Yucca is from the Agavaceae family, and its roots are almost never edible.

Google has failed me!:cheese:

ETA: I'm still interested in other Native American hair care methods, or just natural hair care methods.. The sad thing is that I can't even boil water at my college dorm. :(

[manyhorsesmane]

I can ask at my RNS forum, see if anyone there has any suggestions~ I need to check in there anyway...my life is so full, and my Circle grows ever-larger, thanks to LHC ;)

I'll post what I find~ :flower:

[Curlsgirl]

I have native American ancestors from both my Mom and my Dad too, not sure how far back or how much but it's exciting to me. I just found out about my Mom's side last week at my family reunion. The story is they refused to give any info for the census back in North Carolina because they tried to hide it (didn't want to be sent out west) and so I am not sure the family record goes back any further. I will be watching this thread!

[NicoletteB]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

[mira-chan]

No, it's not the same plant.:flower:

Yuca, also called cassava root, is from the Euphorbiaceae family, and it is the starchy tuber found in grocery stores. Yucca is from the Agavaceae family, and its roots are almost never edible.
Off topic, but what I find interesting is most Euphorbs are poisonous (VERY strong laxatives and purgatives). Cassava (yuca) is poisonous raw.
/off topic

This Russian uses Indian herbs (shikakai, amla, etc.) to wash as shampoo made my scalp itch and bleed. Whatever works, doesn't hurt to try and usually fun researching this stuff. :shrugs:

I'd try the yuca wash if I had fresh yuca available.

[Bene]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would



soooooooo what kind of conditioner do you use? :D

[SimplyLonghair]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would
I am of Cherokee decent and can claim it due to my relatives being on the Dawes roll. But I do have red hair and as a child I had blonde hair, because I am mixed. My grandmother was not ashamed of being native and neither am I. Yes I do go to pow wows and gatherings as much as I can. I am a "real native".

Just because we left the reservation doesn't make us "unreal"!

[Heavenly Locks]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

What a rude post! Just because you have a lighter complexion or hair color...doesn't mean that you can't have pride in your heritage. I AM of cherokee descent and I am offended. Sorry being of partial breeding doesn't give me the right, in your opinion, to be proud of my 'real' heritage.

[Redheaded Raven]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

As someone of native heritage who's family was persecuted for it I am offended to not be considered real, because I am not a full blood, Cherokee, even though one of my ancestors was an early chief.
If no offense was meant then you should not say you are "real" and ones with pale skin or hair are not. Blood calls to blood as my grandmother used to say.

[Bene]

What a rude post! Just because you have a lighter complexion or hair color...doesn't mean that you can't have pride in your heritage. I AM of cherokee descent and I am offended. Sorry being of partial breeding doesn't give me the right, in your opinion, to be proud of my 'real' heritage.


As someone of native heritage who's family was persecuted for it I am offended to not be considered real, because I am not a full blood, Cherokee, even though one of my ancestors was an early chief.
If no offense was meant then you should not say you are "real" and ones with pale skin or hair are not. Blood calls to blood as my grandmother used to say.


i really don't think she was referring to coloring. i think she was referring to the ppl who aren't raised with that culture, who are a part of it through some distant ancestor, but aren't a part of it on a day to day basis, and then claim it. if they have to ask what secrets there are in relation to a specific group, then they really aren't that particular group.

i'm not sure if that makes sense.

[ChloeDharma]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

Not really a great way to introduce yourself to the forums.....if you stick around a while longer you will find that here we tend to behave in a more frendly and accepting way generally.

I'm not sure what the issue is in somebody a) trying to learn about their roots, and b) looking for wisdom from another culture that might help them and/or others today.

[ktani]

I have never heard of this one, so I checked it out. Very interesting, IMO.

"Goat's Rue (Tephrosia virginiana)
Contains small quantities of the insecticide and fish poison rotenone.
Lore: This and related species may have been used as a fish poison by natives in some parts of the Americas. Cherokee women used a root decoction to strengthen hair .... Cherokee ball players applied the decoction to their limbs to "toughen" them .... given .... to children as a tea to make them strong. .... used by the Cherokee and other tribes in various medicines for treating conditions ranging from worms to urinary problems and tuberculosis. .... Medical Uses: .... little scientific data to support medical uses .... plant may contain cancer fighting chemicals as well as carcinogenic substances. Warning: Plant may irritate the skin and the seeds may be toxic. .... "
http://2bnthewild.com/plants/H457.htm

[ktani]

This page has even more interesting information.
http://herb.umd.umich.edu/herb/search.pl?searchstring=Tephrosia+virginiana

I think from this, and the toxicity information, http://books.google.com/books?id=pnnHgcasN-cC&pg=RA1-PA254&lpg=RA1-PA254&dq=Tephrosia+Virginiana+root+uses&source=bl&ots=Vm-SiSGhRs&sig=2nyPNaaAgbkVgFTwaRgIfzMhcgI&hl=en&ei=QdqvSeOeMIiQnge55tzkBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result more than one species is involved in some of the folklore http://www.claudewrankin.com/flowers/rabbitpea.shtml

[rhubarbarin]

That's so cool, orangeeyecrayon! I grew up in South Dakota next to a Lakota reservation and they had a pow wow at the university in my town every year I went to.. I got to eat traditional meals, there was a lot of awesome stuff to buy and I even participated in the dancing and ceremonies. It's one of the coolest things I ever got to do.

I've no idea about traditional hair care. There was some very beautiful hair among Lakota people I knew..

There's just so little information out there.. so much Native American culture just isn't known outside members of the tribe, or has been lost.

[twilight]

a few varieties of the correct yucca species grow here in north florida, and i've had some interesting successes with using the freshly-dug roots as a wash. it does sting the skin a little bit and depending on how well you strain it, can leave little flecks of root in your hair.

i definitely didn't perfect my recipe, however, as the roots were a pain in the a** to peel and i got lazy! but it's good to know i can find some wild shampoo if i'm ever in a bind and need to wash my hair :lol:

i have also bought the powdered yucca root from starwest botanicals but i honestly haven't tried it yet.

about goat's rue... i think have heard it used as a galactogogue but now i'm going to have to look it up and see if i'm remembering incorrectly...

ETA: yes, it is. interesting that it's a fish poison AND helps with breastfeeding..?!

[rymorg2]

I'm not full blooded either, but on my Mother's side have 1/8 Cherokee and on my Father's side have at least the same Cherokee and some Chickasaw too (and it's been traced on both sides) and I claim it as my heritage. I also claim the Scotch/Irish and everything else we've found.

[ktani]

I cannot claim any Native American heritage. I am though very drawn to Native American cultures.

However, as far as I am concerned, everyone is a mix of everything.

That does of course, not mean that we can all make claims of special status. But that is my point too. I think we are all special. Ok, I am off topic, though not entirely.

[florenonite]

However, as far as I am concerned, everyone is a mix of everything.


Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "everyone is a mix of everything"? Do you mean it in a philosophical manner?

I also would have thought that Native peoples would have traditionally been either WO or NW with their hair, rather than using herbs. I haven't got any evidence to back that up (and, no, I don't have any native blood ;)).

[ktani]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "everyone is a mix of everything"? Do you mean it in a philosophical manner?

I also would have thought that Native peoples would have traditionally been either WO or NW with their hair, rather than using herbs. I haven't got any evidence to back that up (and, no, I don't have any native blood ;)).

No, I mean it literally, as in DNA.

From what I have read, Native American cultures, washed their hair and bodies, ritually and for hygiene, with soap plants and herbs.

[jera]

I found the following on Cherokee hair care here http://www.peacefulharmony.org/native%20american/healingplants2.htm:

6. DISTAI'YÏ = "they (the roots) are tough"--Tephrosia Virginiana--Catgut, Turkey Pea, Goat's Rue, or Devil's Shoestrings: Decoction drunk for lassitude. Women wash their hair in decoction of its roots to prevent its breaking or falling out, because these roots are very tough and hard to break; from the same idea ball-players rub the decoction on their limbs after scratching, to toughen them. Dispensatory: Described as a cathartic with roots tonic and aperient.

There's also this book: http://books.google.com/books?id=UXaQat5icHUC which includes plants used for hair care and a lot of other information on how they were used, too.

I've read that yucca root was used by some Native American tribes, but I didn't see a reference when I searched.

I always wondered about devil's shoestring. I have a devil's ivy plant and it grows like mad. The next time it drops some leaves, ( it almost never does cuz I take good care of it and they're impervious to almost everything ), I'm going to make an infusion for my hair with them.

[ktani]

I always wondered about devil's shoestring. I have a devil's ivy plant and it grows like mad. The next time it drops some leaves, ( it almost never does cuz I take good care of it and they're impervious to almost everything ), I'm going to make an infusion for my hair with them.

Check out the species you have for toxicity, IMO. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=490373&postcount=22

[somethingwicked]

i really don't think she was referring to coloring. i think she was referring to the ppl who aren't raised with that culture, who are a part of it through some distant ancestor, but aren't a part of it on a day to day basis, and then claim it. if they have to ask what secrets there are in relation to a specific group, then they really aren't that particular group.

i'm not sure if that makes sense.

Right...it seems like a lot of "white" people lay claim to part Native American heritage (usually Cherokee), and I know there must be even more black Americans with Native Americans in the family tree. My dad's side has some of that Cherokee, and while you'd never know it to look at me (mama's family from Germany), my aunts, uncles, cousins and Granny totally show it. For some reason, no one on that side of the family really wants to talk about it, like someone else mentioned. I think it's great, but I can imagine how freaking annoying it would be to be someone who was raised closer to the culture with more concentrated blood to hear white people skipping around bragging about their heritage.

Now to get all up in my whiteness, I was always curious what was used in Native hair back in the day, too. From old photos and what Hollywood shows me, their hair always looks sleek and strong, from a distance at least, and the braves were always raising Cain in mostly loose hair or braids, and I wanna know how they avoided damage!

[burns_erin]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

Sadly enough, I laughed at this, then I realized two of my sisters have blonde hair, they are 15/32 native american just like me (Blackfoot and Cherokee).

I agree the name thing is pretty funny though, your name in any native american language is still your name.

ETA: My father insists they really, really did used to use bear grease, he knows because his grandmother did. On the other hand, he is the kind of person who will take a joke and drag it way to far.

[SimplyLonghair]

I don't know about washing hair but I know that bear grease was used on hair and skin to protect and condition both. It also worked as a repellent, trust me it would repel anything! Ugh! I remember it smelled bad!

Washing tended to be a steam bath or sweat and scraping and then jump in snow or cold creek.:bigeyes::surprise:

Herbs that I remember hearing about were sage and chapparel (sp?)
They were added to the fire for smell and healing in the smoke.

I don't have any sources other than my great grandmother and hearing about them as a child and at pow wows. The culture was intentionally taken away by the Indian Affairs Dept. The languages were outlawed and many of the children that were full blood were taken away from their families. When a family was not full blood the "white" parent became the guardian of the "indians"

This isn't to be against anyone, I am just recounting family history.

[burns_erin]

I don't know about washing hair but I know that bear grease was used on hair and skin to protect and condition both. It also worked as a repellent, trust me it would repel anything! Ugh! I remember it smelled bad!

Washing tended to be a steam bath or sweat and scraping and then jump in snow or cold creek.:bigeyes::surprise:

Herbs that I remember hearing about were sage and chapparel (sp?)
They were added to the fire for smell and healing in the smoke.

I don't have any sources other than my great grandmother and hearing about them as a child and at pow wows. The culture was intentionally taken away by the Indian Affairs Dept. The languages were outlawed and many of the children that were full blood were taken away from their families. When a family was not full blood the "white" parent became the guardian of the "indians"

This isn't to be against anyone, I am just recounting family history.

Ahh, the scraping, I do that, I had forgotten where I got that from.

As for your last paragraph, that is very true, and is also supposedly where we (as my father's family) got an irish last name.

[Coriander]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

Okay - while I did laugh at the fairy-tale name, I was a little taken aback by this. I was adopted as a baby, and was told growing up that I had Native American blood. It took 30 years, a lot of research, and finally finding my birthmother, and developing a relationship - to find out that I am in fact, part Cherokee. (I wanted to find her for other reasons, mainly health reasons.)

I have always been proud of all parts of me. I am SO very proud of being related to those people who had absolute roots, absolute life here on this continent - who raised their families and fed their families from the land. I am inspired by all people who live off the land and who pass down their cultures and their stories from generation to generation. I find this part in me, and have loved this part of me my entire life, even before I found out about the Cherokee.

This brings up another thing - I agree that there are Native Americans who have lived their entire lives just as their ancestors have. However, with there being such different cultures, and so many people do *not* have "pure blood" anymore - why should we be less proud of who we are, simply because we're not 100% of anything? We're 100% US, 100% human, 100% our own personality and heart. That does *not* mean we're not "real".

I have yet to find my birthfather (I was the "surprise" of a one-night affair)... yet I believe there is a very good chance of finding out I have more Native American blood simply because his family is rooted in North Carolina. I was told that his parents had darker color than him, so who knows? I'm still proud of who *I* am.


What a rude post! Just because you have a lighter complexion or hair color...doesn't mean that you can't have pride in your heritage. I AM of cherokee descent and I am offended. Sorry being of partial breeding doesn't give me the right, in your opinion, to be proud of my 'real' heritage.

Yes.

[Roseate]

Right...it seems like a lot of "white" people lay claim to part Native American heritage (usually Cherokee), and I know there must be even more black Americans with Native Americans in the family tree.

And to complicate things even more, your relatives can't always be believed!

My great-grandmother sometimes claimed Natve heritage, but my aunts' geneaological research has turned up that her brownness was almost certainly from an african-american relation, not a native one. Possibly both aa and native, but the person in question was a sharecropper, not a shaman.

[ktani]

Interesting about the skin scraping. That is what the ancient Romans did. They would oil their skin and scrape it off, pre soap.

And different Native American cultures used various things to cleanse and condition hair and skin, whatever was at hand on the land they used. Most were nomads, who moved with the seasons to various camps, following game.

As to full blood or not, I think we all have heritages to be proud of in one way or another and some ways to live down.

No culture was "pure" in some of their practices, whether it was how they viewed and treated other races or even among themselves and how they treated other tribes and their enemies.

We are all the same species, good and bad.

[ktani]

They (scientists) are still working on the DNA origin theories, http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1945034

More on Ancient Roman bathing practices, http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-strigil.htm

and a picuture of strigils, http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/gr/t/three_bronze_strigils_with_sce.aspx

[ktani]

It is always fascinating to me how diverse cultures, thousands of miles and continents apart, invented the same things or followed some of the same practices, at different times, from something like bathing practices to indoor plumbing, http://books.google.com/books?id=ESPvRbARWIwC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=minoan+indoor+plumbing&source=bl&ots=w54T9uXX2y&sig=CKrmZjbQElwm_MR9m1bNMGm6_TM&hl=en&ei=dXawScy-CJHItQP3utzXAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result hundreds of years before they were part of modern culture.

[ktani]

From bear grease to buffalo dung, http://www.fashionencyclopedia.com/fashion_costume_culture/Early-Cultures-Native-American/Bear-Grease.html

Rose petals to balsam gum, http://www.kporterfield.com/aicttw/excerpts/conditioner.html

Apparently, Cleopatra used bear grease too. That stuff had a reputation, lol, http://www.classicreader.com/book/955/6/

[florenonite]

No, I mean it literally, as in DNA.


You'd have to go pretty far back (as in thousands of years) to find anything other than European in me, and by that point I think it's a moot point as it has no effect on me, really. Of course, I'm the sort of person that thinks people shouldn't claim to be Scottish just because their great-great-great-great-great-grandparents came over in the Highland Clearances.



I don't have any sources other than my great grandmother and hearing about them as a child and at pow wows. The culture was intentionally taken away by the Indian Affairs Dept. The languages were outlawed and many of the children that were full blood were taken away from their families. When a family was not full blood the "white" parent became the guardian of the "indians"


They had 'residential school's that were the same in Canada, where the children were forced to speak English. It's for the same reason that only about 1 per cent of Scotland's population speaks Gaelic, because many Highland children in the 18th-century were taken and put in schools in the Lowlands, where Gaelic had been long replaced by Scots and English.


It is always fascinating to me how diverse cultures, thousands of miles and continents apart, invented the same things or followed some of the same practices, at different times, from something like bathing practices to indoor plumbing, http://books.google.com/books?id=ESPvRbARWIwC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=minoan+indoor+plumbing&source=bl&ots=w54T9uXX2y&sig=CKrmZjbQElwm_MR9m1bNMGm6_TM&hl=en&ei=dXawScy-CJHItQP3utzXAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result hundreds of years before they were part of modern culture.

I find this kind of thing fascinating, too. It's interesting how people made use of the same resources unintentionally.

[oogie]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!
It's so funny how people with blond hair claim Native heritage, I've heard that "my mother was Cherokee" line more times than I care to. Then you name yourself Magical Mystical Moon Maiden or some crap like that.
lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
lol
you probably would

Hi to you too.

My grandfather walked off the reservation when he was 13 and we were taught while growing up not to claim our heritage. We would be seen as ignorant savages. Have any clue how much I'd LOVE to know more about mine but because I have psoriasis, people like you want to deny me ? Hope you enjoy your station in life....

Oh and FYI - never heard of the lost colony of Ronoake? That's how many people claim their heritage without "LOOKING" Native...

sorry for the hijack but I just had to put in my little thorns...

[ktani]

Hi to you too.

My grandfather walked off the reservation when he was 13 and we were taught while growing up not to claim our heritage. We would be seen as ignorant savages. Have any clue how much I'd LOVE to know more about mine but because I have psoriasis, people like you want to deny me ? Hope you enjoy your station in life....

Oh and FYI - never heard of the lost colony of Ronoake? That's how many people claim their heritage without "LOOKING" Native...

sorry for the hijack but I just had to put in my little thorns...

There was a lot that was done and not all that long ago, that can in some ways never be made up for. It was wrong. Very wrong on all levels.

Many are now looking at their heritages with the pride and curiosity and determination that the heritage deserves. All heritages deserve that IMO, but without the crimes committed by some and what was done to Native Americans and their childen, were crimes. The crimes were committed in Canada too.

I can understand how you feel but the attitude here is very positive and there is pride, not prejudice I see, in the posts wanting to know more.

A lot has changed over the years, more changes are coming and attitudes have changed as well. Prejudice still exists against a number of minorities. I am very grateful to be alive now and see the changes. I would like to think and do, that I lived before them as well and was for the changes then, too. That is another thread, though.

[ktani]

You'd have to go pretty far back (as in thousands of years) to find anything other than European in me, and by that point I think it's a moot point as it has no effect on me, really. Of course, I'm the sort of person that thinks people shouldn't claim to be Scottish just because their great-great-great-great-great-grandparents came over in the Highland Clearances.



They had 'residential school's that were the same in Canada, where the children were forced to speak English. It's for the same reason that only about 1 per cent of Scotland's population speaks Gaelic, because many Highland children in the 18th-century were taken and put in schools in the Lowlands, where Gaelic had been long replaced by Scots and English.



I find this kind of thing fascinating, too. It's interesting how people made use of the same resources unintentionally.

I am not saying that I claim any other heritage than my immediate one. I just laugh at those who claim through prejudice, that their blood is "pure", not their immediate heritage, just their DNA and on the prejudice level only.

[burns_erin]

I think, some people, have a hard time accepting that there is a difference between genetic heritage, and cultural heritage.

Please forgive me, but I am about to explain my thoughts poorly. A person can be full blooded anything, and not raised with tha culture, anf they are still very technically whatever their genetic heritage is. Or, a person can have very little genetic heritage of something, but if they are raised with the cultural heritage, then they are still whatever it is.

For instance, my dads cousins, whose parents were caucasian, but were adopted by his great aunt and grew up on the reservation in Oklahoma, are no more or less Native American in the general sense than my father who did not grow up on the reservation. It is only when you break it down to specific categories that one can decide if someone is more oor less. BUT-that more or less does not in any way correlate to a better or worse.

[ktani]

I think, some people, have a hard time accepting that there is a difference between genetic heritage, and cultural heritage.

Please forgive me, but I am about to explain my thoughts poorly. A person can be full blooded anything, and not raised with tha culture, anf they are still very technically whatever their genetic heritage is. Or, a person can have very little genetic heritage of something, but if they are raised with the cultural heritage, then they are still whatever it is.

For instance, my dads cousins, whose parents were caucasian, but were adopted by his great aunt and grew up on the reservation in Oklahoma, are no more or less Native American in the general sense than my father who did not grow up on the reservation. It is only when you break it down to specific categories that one can decide if someone is more oor less. BUT-that more or less does not in any way correlate to a better or worse.

I think that you have explained yourself very well. And I agree with you.

My immediate heritage is a minority. I am Jewish and although non practicing, I consider that my actual heritage.

However all of this "purity", that still promotes prejudices against minorities of all kinds, turns my stomache.

As proud as I am of my immediate heritage, I am also proud that far back enough, I no doubt have a mix of other races and cultures and I consider myself a citizen of this planet, not just a citizen of my country.

[Akiko]

I wish people can talk about their heritage, immediate or distant, and cultures without animosity. I enjoy learning hair care and updos from different cultures. I do like to know how Native Americans cared for their hair...

And I enjoy talking about Japanese hairdos and hairtoys to anyone, whether they are part Japanese or not. I will continue to post pictures and all sorts of links.:cheese:

[ktani]

I wish people can talk about their heritage, immediate or distant, and cultures without animosity. I enjoy learning hair care and updos from different cultures. I do like to know how Native Americans cared for their hair...

And I enjoy talking about Japanese hairdos and hairtoys to anyone, whether they are part Japanese or not. I will continue to post pictures and all sorts of links.:cheese:

I think that here of all places we can and have. I have read your posts and I think that they are great!

LHC is predominantly about haircare. All cultures and opinions are welcome and I for one, am interested in haircare from all cultures and heritages.

[getoffmyskittle]

I totally see both sides of this. I'm of mixed heritage, and I hate being told I "don't count" as something, especially since people are usually determining whether or not I count based on stereotypes. :rolleyes: On the other hand, cultural appropriation is very real, especially with respect to people of European descent trying to appropriate Native cultures, and the the history of Native Americans in the US is so loaded, I can definitely see how a Native person who doesn't, well, pass as white could get really irritated by that.

Just throwing that out there.

ETA: I do think the problem here was caused by the OP saying "I am a Lakota Sioux Indian" (emphasis mine) rather than "I just found out that part of my heritage is Lakota Sioux, and I'd like to learn more about it."

[Akiko]

Thank you, ktani. It's amazing that people around the globe figured out how to use native plants and other things readily available to them.

I did not know some of them used bear grease. This is my first time to hear about it. Thank you for the link, ktani. Buffalo poop for curls. That's a bit difficult to handle. Cactus for shine. O! That intrigues me.

[ktani]

I totally see both sides of this. I'm of mixed heritage, and I hate being told I "don't count" as something, especially since people are usually determining whether or not I count based on stereotypes. :rolleyes: On the other hand, cultural appropriation is very real, especially with respect to people of European descent trying to appropriate Native cultures, and the the history of Native Americans in the US is so loaded, I can definitely see how a Native person who doesn't, well, pass as white could get really irritated by that.

Just throwing that out there.

ETA: I do think the problem here was caused by the OP saying "I am a Lakota Sioux Indian" (emphasis mine) rather than "I just found out that part of my heritage is Lakota Sioux, and I'd like to learn more about it."

I agree except for the last part. I do not hold the OP responsible for the way this thread has progressed. There are pitfalls on this subject because so many of the problems realistically, still exist.

But we are in a new era now, where these problems are thankfully less and will no longer be tolerated or sanctioned, legally or otherwise.

[getoffmyskittle]

I agree except for the last part. There are pitfalls on this subject because so many of the problems realistically, still exist.

But we are in a new ara now, where these problems are thankfully less and will no longer be tolerated or sanctioned, legally or otherwise.

Well, yeah. It's a sticky, messy, difficult subject. But I'd also like to point out that Native American tribes are domestic dependent nations. Whether or not a tribe accepts someone as a member is TOTALLY up to them and they can do it on whatever grounds they want; the states and Congress can't interfere with their domestic jurisdiction. But the tribes are nations, not races, although whether or not they grant membership may be based on "race."

What I'm trying to say is that I can't claim I am Irish in such unequivocal terms any more than someone who's not a member of the Lakota Sioux tribe can claim they are Lakota Sioux. I mean, I could, but Irish people who live in Ireland and have Irish citizenship and Irish culture would probably make fun of me.

[ktani]

Well, yeah. It's a sticky, messy, difficult subject. But I'd also like to point out that Native American tribes are domestic dependent nations. Whether or not a tribe accepts someone as a member is TOTALLY up to them and they can do it on whatever grounds they want; the states and Congress can't interfere with their domestic jurisdiction. But the tribes are nations, not races.

What I'm trying to say is that I can't claim I am Irish in such unequivocal terms any more than someone who's not a member of the Lakota Sioux tribe can claim they are Lakota Sioux. I mean, I could, but Irish people who live in Ireland and have Irish citizenship and Irish culture would probably make fun of me.

Here in Canada, Native status, which an individual has to prove to the government, grants certain rights and priviledges, like tax exemption, so it is different, depending on what is being discussed.

[Aisha25]

Well, yeah. It's a sticky, messy, difficult subject. But I'd also like to point out that Native American tribes are domestic dependent nations. Whether or not a tribe accepts someone as a member is TOTALLY up to them and they can do it on whatever grounds they want; the states and Congress can't interfere with their domestic jurisdiction. But the tribes are nations, not races, although whether or not they grant membership may be based on "race."

What I'm trying to say is that I can't claim I am Irish in such unequivocal terms any more than someone who's not a member of the Lakota Sioux tribe can claim they are Lakota Sioux. I mean, I could, but Irish people who live in Ireland and have Irish citizenship and Irish culture would probably make fun of me.
Thats very true. My mom is half mexican half white and she grew up around mexicans the most but she looks white and she would claim to be a mexican because well thats how she grow up. But other mexicans would laugh at her and say to her she is honkey wetback and tell her she is not brown enough to be mexican:mad: See how it works. Either your not white enough or brown enough:rolleyes:

[twilight]

i should probably stay out of this discussion but i really agree with the gist of what ktani has been trying to say (as i read it):

we are all mixed a little bit, be it recently or way back in the lineage... to say otherwise, except in a very few special cases, is arguably ignorant, and thus tolerance is a much wiser and more logical way to approach people of any and all race/culture/etc.

i can certainly understand why someone who has lived fully immersed in a culture could be frustrated by others attempting to appropriate (and in the process perhaps misinterpreting and misrepresenting) it... but really, there is nothing you can do about it, so why not be proud that your culture is so appealing that others want to join it or become proud of their own piece of it?

incidentally i am equally of creek native american, german, and english/welsh descent, and i would not claim cultural influence from any one of them more than another. i'm just american; but that doesn't make it any less true that i have recent roots in other cultures/races.

i think there is merit in learning as much as one can about the history of one's lineage, be it for haircare or health reasons :)

[twilight]

Thats very true. My mom is half mexican half white and she grew up around mexicans the most but she looks white and she would claim to be a mexican because well thats how she grow up. But other mexicans would laugh at her and say to her she is honkey wetback and tell her she is not brown enough to be mexican:mad: See how it works. Either your not white enough or brown enough:rolleyes:

so true! my sister's husband is half-mexican, half-japanese, with an irish adoptive surname (and he grew up in indonesia and hawaii)... and he's rejected by both japanese and mexican cultures because neither thinks he looks or talks or acts enough like "the rest of them."

so he too, like many of us, is just american--but in his case, because he is 'brown' and has 'slanty eyes' he is always assumed not to be american anyway.

such a mess.

[ktani]

i should probably stay out of this discussion but i really agree with the gist of what ktani has been trying to say (as i read it):

we are all mixed a little bit, be it recently or way back in the lineage... to say otherwise, except in a very few special cases, is arguably ignorant, and thus tolerance is a much wiser and more logical way to approach people of any and all race/culture/etc.

i can certainly understand why someone who has lived fully immersed in a culture could be frustrated by others attempting to appropriate (and in the process perhaps misinterpreting and misrepresenting) it... but really, there is nothing you can do about it, so why not be proud that your culture is so appealing that others want to join it or become proud of their own piece of it?

incidentally i am equally of creek native american, german, and english/welsh descent, and i would not claim cultural influence from any one of them more than another. i'm just american; but that doesn't make it any less true that i have recent roots in other cultures/races.

i think there is merit in learning as much as one can about the history of one's lineage, be it for haircare or health reasons :)

That is basically what I have been trying to say. It is unfortunate, that cultures reject those who do not obvioulsly fit in or fit their criteria but that is the way of things, that hopefully is fading more and more.

[oogie]

Respectfully-

Cut any of us- we all bleed red blood. No man can tell who it came from, just that it's blood. Can't spot anyone's race, religion, creed, sexual orientation-- nothing-- in red blood with the naked eye. So what does it matter the outside- inside there's no difference...:cool:

Now, if you'll pardon this Irish/English/ Blackfoot/Cherokee (sorry if that makes anyone cringe) I've a serious hair question.

Do you think that the hair toys that are often depicted with Native American women and men of different tribes - are real and would it help prevent damage that we can all get from time to time?

[ktani]

Respectfully-

Cut any of us- we all bleed red blood. No man can tell who it came from, just that it's blood. Can't spot anyone's race, religion, creed, sexual orientation-- nothing-- in red blood with the naked eye. So what does it matter the outside- inside there's no difference...:cool:

Now, if you'll pardon this Irish/English/ Blackfoot/Cherokee (sorry if that makes anyone cringe) I've a serious hair question.

Do you think that the hair toys that are often depicted with Native American women and men of different tribes - are real and would it help prevent damage that we can all get from time to time?

No one here, or anywhere else, IMO should have to preface such a good question, or any question, with an apology or explanation.

IMO, it would depend on the actual way the toy is made. I have no doubt that originally, traditionally, because of the methods used for the materials involved, that the toys were and possibly still are, very hair friendly.

[ktani]

Respectfully-

Cut any of us- we all bleed red blood. No man can tell who it came from, just that it's blood. Can't spot anyone's race, religion, creed, sexual orientation-- nothing-- in red blood with the naked eye. So what does it matter the outside- inside there's no difference...:cool:

That about says it all and very well indeed!

[ktani]

Do you think that the hair toys that are often depicted with Native American women and men of different tribes - are real and would it help prevent damage that we can all get from time to time?

This is mostly jewellery, but the beadwork, which would also apply to some headwear, involves polished stone, which would be smooth and have no rough edges, to cut into or tear at hair, http://www.native-languages.org/jewelry.htm

Also, the leather used to tie back hair would be soft and pliable.

[getoffmyskittle]

Thats very true. My mom is half mexican half white and she grew up around mexicans the most but she looks white and she would claim to be a mexican because well thats how she grow up. But other mexicans would laugh at her and say to her she is honkey wetback and tell her she is not brown enough to be mexican:mad: See how it works. Either your not white enough or brown enough:rolleyes:

Haha, you just described most of my life in like three sentences.

Yeah, that's why I say I can see both sides. It's rough, it's really rough. Being denied that cultural heritage when you actually have it is really... infuriating.

But still... for Native Americans... I can completely see the "they took our land and autonomy and decimated our populations, now they want our identity too?!" response.

I think the difference is in your cultural heritage and whether you claim ownership or learnership. Cause claiming ownership of a culture you know nothing about, especially when the people in that culture have been subjected to all kinds of discrimination and abuse that you can't even comprehend, is kind of messed up. :P And I don't think anyone was objecting to the desire to learn about different cultures, just the claim of ownership.

[Aisha25]

Haha, you just described most of my life in like three sentences.

Yeah, that's why I say I can see both sides. It's rough, it's really rough. Being denied that cultural heritage when you actually have it is really... infuriating.

But still... for Native Americans... I can completely see the "they took our land and autonomy and decimated our populations, now they want our identity too?!" response.

I think the difference is in your cultural heritage and whether you claim ownership or learnership. Cause claiming ownership of a culture you know nothing about, especially when the people in that culture have been subjected to all kinds of discrimination and abuse that you can't even comprehend, is kind of messed up. :P And I don't think anyone was objecting to the desire to learn about different cultures, just the claim of ownership.
Yes I agree too.

[florenonite]

I am not saying that I claim any other heritage than my immediate one. I just laugh at those who claim through prejudice, that their blood is "pure", not their immediate heritage, just their DNA and on the prejudice level only.

Ah, that makes more sense.


I think, some people, have a hard time accepting that there is a difference between genetic heritage, and cultural heritage.

Please forgive me, but I am about to explain my thoughts poorly. A person can be full blooded anything, and not raised with tha culture, anf they are still very technically whatever their genetic heritage is. Or, a person can have very little genetic heritage of something, but if they are raised with the cultural heritage, then they are still whatever it is.

For instance, my dads cousins, whose parents were caucasian, but were adopted by his great aunt and grew up on the reservation in Oklahoma, are no more or less Native American in the general sense than my father who did not grow up on the reservation. It is only when you break it down to specific categories that one can decide if someone is more oor less. BUT-that more or less does not in any way correlate to a better or worse.

It's odd, but I've noticed a bit of a differing attitude towards what you term 'cultural' and 'genetic' heritage between Canada and Scotland. Canadians, who are second-generation or greater immigrants, although very culturally Canadian, still as a whole are rather concerned with their genetic heritage, whereas Scots don't really care about their genetic heritage beyond their parents or possibly grandparents, because culturally they don't feel any connection to them. I've had people in Scotland say 'you're not Scottish' or 'you're not British' (never in an insulting way) because I wasn't born or raised here, although genetically and in many ways culturally, I am.

[ktani]

Hershkovitz, now this sounds like a nice Jewish name (no idea, just guessing), that would allow her offspring to claim both Jewish and Native heritages, lol, http://dorlah.tripod.com/ I am ot being disrespectful. Just trying to lighten things up a bit.

[Coriander]

Respectfully-

Cut any of us- we all bleed red blood. No man can tell who it came from, just that it's blood. Can't spot anyone's race, religion, creed, sexual orientation-- nothing-- in red blood with the naked eye. So what does it matter the outside- inside there's no difference...:cool:


Quite beautifully said. :flower:



I think the difference is in your cultural heritage and whether you claim ownership or learnership. Cause claiming ownership of a culture you know nothing about, especially when the people in that culture have been subjected to all kinds of discrimination and abuse that you can't even comprehend, is kind of messed up. :P And I don't think anyone was objecting to the desire to learn about different cultures, just the claim of ownership.

Also well spoken -

I find I claim only ownership of "me", however I love your term "learnership" - I've been sincerely wanting to learn all I can, and not just about the Cherokee, but about all of the blood I have swirling through my veins. :)

[ktani]

Native American headresses, http://www.native-languages.org/headdresses.htm

Native American hairstyles, http://www.native-languages.org/hair.htm

[ktani]

This is really cool, IMO.

"Native Languages of the Americas: How You Can Help

1. IF YOU ARE INDIAN: Speak your language! Nothing you could do would be more valuable to the cause than this. Whether you are full or mixed blood, reservation or urban: learn it, speak some every day, teach it to your children.

2. IF YOU SPEAK AN INDIAN LANGUAGE FLUENTLY, OR HAVE A RELATIVE WHO DOES: Make audio recordings. Nothing helps young people to learn a language more than hearing the sounds and rhythm of the language from someone who knows it well. ...."
http://www.native-languages.org/help.htm

[ktani]

As I have said elsewhere, I am very drawn to Native American cultures.

Lots to looks at in this link, http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/award98/ienhtml/guides.html#hdg, all actual historical pictures and information.

ETA: "Sensitive Images and Text
This online collection contains all of the images and caption text as originally published in The North American Indian. The captions reflect a perspective that Indians were "primitive" people whose traditional cultures and ways of life were disappearing. In his representation of Indians as the "vanishing race," Curtis echoes the prevailing view held by Euro-Americans in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Contemporary readers should interpret the captions in that context."
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/award98/ienhtml/notice.html

[Coriander]

You are simply awesome, ktani :) Thank you for all of that information! :flower:

[ktani]

You are simply awesome, ktani :) Thank you for all of that information! :flower:

Thank you the kind words.

I am thrilled to have found so much information online, that is applicable to this thread!

[ktani]

More, and the pictures are all clickable. There is a really cool hair ornament, 3rd from the left, top row, http://www.nmai.si.edu/searchcollections/results.aspx?hl=127.

[ktani]

Still more, 2 links with clickable pictures, 1. http://boundless.uoregon.edu/cdm4_dev/results.php?CISOOP1=exact&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=/Moorhouse-wk&CISOBOX1=Fur

2. http://boundless.uoregon.edu/cdm4_dev/results.php?CISOOP1=exact&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=/Moorhouse-wk&CISOBOX1=Headbands++Headgear+

[KC83]

i really don't think she was referring to coloring. i think she was referring to the ppl who aren't raised with that culture, who are a part of it through some distant ancestor, but aren't a part of it on a day to day basis, and then claim it. if they have to ask what secrets there are in relation to a specific group, then they really aren't that particular group.

i'm not sure if that makes sense.

I agree with you, Bene. I really dont understand why so many people get offended by NicoletteBs comment, I think it was sort of funny.

On the other hand, I dont like racial/ethnic/cultural stereotyping. Just because you look certain way doesnt mean you are what you look like (hope this makes sense, English is not my native language).

For example, I am European (mediterranean) and I got asked a few times by Americans and Canadians if I was Native American. I really dont see the resemblance but they somehow do.

[Ndnlady]

My Father's side of the family is full-blooded Native American, Six Nations - Mohawk, however I was not raised with the culture because I was told it would "hold you back" from ever doing anything useful with my life! My Father married a White woman because he thought it would make him less Native. He did not have a good childhood, he was born in Ohsweken, Canada and was raised on the reservation, it was not a good life, heck they didn't even have a real bathroom until he was a teenager. My Grandfather could not become what he wanted in life because he was a "dirty savage" and therefore not worthy for anything, and he passed that on to my Father unfortunatley. I learned about my heritage from books and from my Aunties, fortunatley they were not as effected as my Father growing up.
NicoletteB's comment is a result of anger that even I have sometimes, she just did not explain (and I'm not saying anyone on this forum did any of this which is good:)).
When people of other races and descents (not just people of European descent) make Native people out like they are so mystical and then say stupid things, such as "well you're not dressed up in all leather with your bow and arrow you can't be and Indian" or "oooohhh you're an Indian, can I take a picture with you" like we are museum art pieces, it gets a little tiring sometimes. The best is when I'm at a pow-wow and there are all these people of non-native descent walking around in skimpy little hippy clothes with armpit hair long enough to braid because they are "feeling the Native vibe":confused:, I feel like slapping them and saying "hi my name is reality, have we met?" Last time I checked I bathed and shaved just like the average person in america.:rolleyes:
For the record I was interested in this thread when it first started and is actually how I learned about yucca (which I do use now) I'm always interested in histories of things, and antiques!

[ktani]

My Father's side of the family is full-blooded Native American, Six Nations - Mohawk, however I was not raised with the culture because I was told it would "hold you back" from ever doing anything useful with my life! My Father married a White woman because he thought it would make him less Native. He did not have a good childhood, he was born in Ohsweken, Canada and was raised on the reservation, it was not a good life, heck they didn't even have a real bathroom until he was a teenager. My Grandfather could not become what he wanted in life because he was a "dirty savage" and therefore not worthy for anything, and he passed that on to my Father unfortunatley. I learned about my heritage from books and from my Aunties, fortunatley they were not as effected as my Father growing up.
NicoletteB's comment is a result of anger that even I have sometimes, she just did not explain (and I'm not saying anyone on this forum did any of this which is good:)).
When people of other races and descents (not just people of European descent) make Native people out like they are so mystical and then say stupid things, such as "well you're not dressed up in all leather with your bow and arrow you can't be and Indian" or "oooohhh you're an Indian, can I take a picture with you" like we are museum art pieces, it gets a little tiring sometimes. The best is when I'm at a pow-wow and there are all these people of non-native descent walking around in skimpy little hippy clothes with armpit hair long enough to braid because they are "feeling the Native vibe":confused:, I feel like slapping them and saying "hi my name is reality, have we met?" Last time I checked I bathed and shaved just like the average person in america.:rolleyes:
For the record I was interested in this thread when it first started and is actually how I learned about yucca (which I do use now) I'm always interested in histories of things, and antiques!

I can well understand your anger and hers. There is nothing anyone can say about the way Native American or Canadians were treated and still are in some instances.

No culture is purely mystical or anything else. But ignorance and stupidity remain about all cultures. Jews are supposed to control the finances of the world. Well, someone lost my phone number, and I want my share!

My mom remembers a sign on the beach, right here in Toronto that said "No dogs or Jews Allowed", when she was a child.

Every minority out there is still at risk from those who preach hate and a complete lack of understanding for others and I am not going into atrocities. This is not the place for it but information on current and past history is available.

You will not find any of that kind of ignorance here, not only because it is not allowed but because the mindset here is actually about people, not what can divide them.

[Ndnlady]

You will not find any of that kind of ignorance here, not only because it is not allowed but because the mindset here is actually about people, not what can divide them.

Agreed!:) And this is why I like coming to the LHC so much!

[ktani]

Agreed!:) And this is why I like coming to the LHC so much!

This is a good place to come to and everyone here is equal!

[flapjack]

I've never understood some of the weird views about Native Americans. I go to college with plenty of Native American kids and they're just regular people. I think some of these fools would be surprised to learn that they go to work, school, etc. daily with some of these "mystical" people who "don't bathe" because they don't even notice. Native American people don't all look and act a certain way, you're not going to know unless they tell you their background, anyway. It's the same with any other group of people. I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with such stupidity, some people just live under rocks, apparently.

[ktani]

I've never understood some of the weird views about Native Americans. I go to college with plenty of Native American kids and they're just regular people. I think some of these fools would be surprised to learn that they go to work, school, etc. daily with some of these "mystical" people who "don't bathe" because they don't even notice. Native American people don't all look and act a certain way, you're not going to know unless they tell you their background, anyway. It's the same with any other group of people. I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with such stupidity, some people just live under rocks, apparently.

I have never heard of the "don't bathe" stupidity but in Russia many years ago, apparently there were those who believed that Jewish men menstruated. And in the Dark Ages, many Europeans did not bathe, so you never know where things about other cultures start. It would all be funny except these kinds of things led certain people to believe that gave them the right to commit crimes against other cultures because the people were of much lesser value or worse.

[flapjack]

Ohhhhhhh, I'm telling my Russian mama this when I get home. Ahahahahahahahaha! That... is embarrassing.

And yes, you're right, it almost always escalates into feelings of superiority and then violence. This is never a good thing. Thankfully, with things like the internet, more people are communicating globally and becoming... less stupid.

[ktani]

Ohhhhhhh, I'm telling my Russian mama this when I get home. Ahahahahahahahaha! That... is embarrassing.

And yes, you're right, it almost always escalates into feelings of superiority and then violence. This is never a good thing. Thankfully, with things like the internet, more people are communicating globally and becoming... less stupid.

I sent you a pm with information on the topic. This is not the place for that kind of information in detail, IMO.

[ktani]

I edited the post above this one to clarify what I actually meant. The information on that topic could be viewed as sensitive by some.

[Sissy]

The only product I've ever tried that could be considered Native American (I think) is my Ojon Hair Restorative Treatment. I do like it quite a bit :)

[ktani]

The only product I've ever tried that could be considered Native American (I think) is my Ojon Hair Restorative Treatment. I do like it quite a bit :)

That is based on Central American tradition, http://www.ojon.com/ so, you are right.

[CC-Bale]

I am a full blooded Native Canadian. Both my parents were native and their parents were full blooded native. My husband I consider full blooded but he has a tad bit of white a few generations ago. I was taught to hear peoples storys and NEVER be judgemental. Even about different religious beliefs we would sit and listen to a "white man" talk and say "thanks for sharing...now this is what we believe" We would NEVER put anyone down for saying they were 1/16th native because chances are our grandparents were good friends with your 1/16th relative. Well, honestly about the hair treatments or anything native tradition you probably won't find much online because our culture/beliefs have ALWAYS been passed down orally. There are things that are still sacred to us in our modern society. Best chance to learn is to whole heartidly be interested in our culture and talk to an Elder in your community. Chances are they will open their home to you. Best of luck.

[onthehorizon]

Know how THIS native american cares for her hair?
shampoo and a good conditioner!!!!

lol, if you actually asked one of us real natives this question in person we'd be so tempted to tell you to only wash it in a lake during a full moon, and use pine pitch.
you probably would

:rollin:

Actually I have heard Dine used to use sheep fat for the hair and but I don't know if it's true or not.

[natural_shine]

I read somewere a native american tip I found useful... only wash in flowing water. They had rivers, I guess. Imagine how great it would be to stand in a river, feeling your hair flowing with the abundent water. Nirvana-like feeling, can be done in more shallow rivers for sure, too bad they're mostly more shallow thru the mountains, and there the water is mostly cold. I'd still do it though.

I see the pint of this, if you wash it in flowing water, hair would get a lot less tangled. Well, showers can do a part of the job here, flowing water. But no shower has the flowing power a river has. Still, I don't submerge my hair in the bath tub anymore, just shower for my hair, though I am a fan of long baths, generally. It does tangle a bit less.

[Wolfie]

I am a full blooded Native Canadian. Both my parents were native and their parents were full blooded native. My husband I consider full blooded but he has a tad bit of white a few generations ago. I was taught to hear peoples storys and NEVER be judgemental. Even about different religious beliefs we would sit and listen to a "white man" talk and say "thanks for sharing...now this is what we believe" We would NEVER put anyone down for saying they were 1/16th native because chances are our grandparents were good friends with your 1/16th relative. Well, honestly about the hair treatments or anything native tradition you probably won't find much online because our culture/beliefs have ALWAYS been passed down orally. There are things that are still sacred to us in our modern society. Best chance to learn is to whole heartidly be interested in our culture and talk to an Elder in your community. Chances are they will open their home to you. Best of luck.

I agree:) I guess we as a people tend to be wary. I am over half Native. Lakota and Omaha. And then I'm latina ( Mestizo, Indigenous Guatemalan and European Spanish)

I've heard from old stories that have been told by elders that the plains Indians would take bison fat and mix it with the oils of wild sunflower or any wild flowers available. And the women would wear it. As for men, they would use bison fat and mix it with deer musk or bison musk to given more power. Also, since long hair was revered, to help it grow (not sure if it works) they would make oil out of mint leaves or any mint like plants and mix it with the mixtures describe above and apply it only to the scalp. Since the mint would make the scalp tingle they thought it would wake the scalp and cause the hair to grow. It may work since the mint could cause more blood flow to the scalp. One thing I also heard is that keeping your hair in braids caused it grow faster as well. My auntie told me that also heavily oiling your hair and washing it in a full moon would make it grow and make it darker. And one should use a wood or bone comb.

In Gautemala Indigenous Guatemalans (family had told me anyways. Depends on the group) they use aloe vera. Also coffee beans and leaves to stimulate growth. Also making oils out of nuts is used on hair. Since a lot of the oils are now modern and exported or made with plants that may not be native I can't give you too much on this area. Although I have heard of yucca being used like it was stated earlier. Also an aunt told me that many let their hair make its oil and the they place their ends on top to become saturated and then they wrap their heads until the next washing.

Anyways, I hoped that may have helped

[meteor]

^ Great stuff, Wolfie! :D

Thanks a bunch on the details of how different oils were used. :thumbsup:


Also, since long hair was revered, to help it grow (not sure if it works) they would make oil out of mint leaves or any mint like plants and mix it with the mixtures describe above and apply it only to the scalp. Since the mint would make the scalp tingle they thought it would wake the scalp and cause the hair to grow. It may work since the mint could cause more blood flow to the scalp.

I can definitely see that, since it promotes blood circulation... :agree: On this topic, I just wanted to add a study that showed how peppermint oil (3%) promoted hair growth in mice greater than jojoba oil and even greater than 3% minoxidil:
Peppermint Oil Promotes Hair Growth without Toxic Signs - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289931/

[littlestarface]

I have to agree with nicolleteb it is very hilarious when I see someone claim native when there only 1/8 1/32 :lol:

[meteor]

Since this thread got bumped, I have a question. :)
I saw a few videos on how to make DIY cleansing paste/shampoo from yucca root... but it looks pretty time- and labor-intensive, not to mention kind of wasteful, since the root of the whole plant doesn't seem to yield much shampoo? (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pff_PcZ0DUs) Did some tribes use any additional herbs and methods for cleansing? Maybe something with mud/clays or aloe vera or something like that?

Also, I saw some really cool hairsytling videos (they are a bit long), showing male and female versions of the so-called Navajo bun (sometimes they refer to it as the Hopi bun or the Pueblo style bun...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZI-4GExQk; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAYj5MNy7e4; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWUtRFNIjQQ
It involves folding ponytail upwards and tying it up with yarn/ribbon. This style looks like it would hold like a rock for sports or any physical activities all day, even on super slippery hair. It can also be fanned out for a fluffier, more festive look, more like a vertical bow bun. Really great hairstyle, I think. :D
I think I've done something similar with a braid (instead of loose hair) before, and the folded braid hairstyle held like a champ.

I'd love to see other updo styles, if others would like to share. ;)

[Swan Maiden]

Meteor I love those videos! The Navajo bun is one of my favorite traditional hairstyles, it looks so easy and comfortable. I would love to try it. The MIAC video with the hopi maiden style, she mentions using animal fat in the hair.

Im just guessing here, but Im sure they could have made a rudimentary soap out of animal fat and wood ash. I am curious now and will look for more information. I am sure traditional hair washing methods vary for the region and what resources each tribe had access to.


https://youtu.be/xAYj5MNy7e4

Eta: video of hopi maiden style :)

[sumidha]

Ooh thank you for posting that Swan Maiden, I have always wondered how they did the squash blossom hair style! :)

[meteor]

^ Oh yes, me too, I'd love to know if ash and fat in some sort of soap was used, as well. :agree: So far I know only about the herbal washing...
And yes, that Hopi style looks a lot more doable compared to the Hopi Maiden Squashblossom Whorls that some say were supposed to be done over large forms. They are made exactly like the Navajo bun in terms of folding method and even tools (the videos I linked demonstrate the difference), only they aren't tied down as much and edges are fanned out so much that they look round and huge (like the lady in the first video said: fanning out was done only for ladies, to make buns more feminine). I do think that many photos we have of Hopi hair support the idea that this pretty easy method was probably the one used: e.g. photo 1 (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LJsFIJmpeqE/Unbk5-1fT2I/AAAAAAAAGZM/jHRsuHBMA78/s1600/squash+blossom+hair.png), photo 2 (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a0/05/f5/a005f5d70e239365534cccf436821483.jpg), photo 3 (http://pinsndls.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/mm11.jpg), photo 4 (http://prints.encore-editions.com/0/500/modified-style-of-hair-dressing-hopi.jpg), photo 5 (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/67/1d/26/671d268d20873662540909cdd093e78f.jpg). In terms of structure, this is a large version of the Fan Bun, but having that tool that looks like a giant 2-prong fork (again, you can check it out in the videos linked in the post) probably helped keep the folded sections huge but taught enough to create the smooth whorls. :)

By the way, I've seen many claims online that Hopi maiden hair is what inspired Princess Leia's giant side cinnabuns, but I don't know about that... after all, it's a style that reappeared in different shapes and forms throughout history in many cultures.

Oh, and if somebody knows the details of how Seminole board hairstyle was achieved, please do share! :D
I've seen some photos that do give a pretty good idea of the method (photo 1 (http://floridamemory.com/fpc/commerce/C009772.jpg), photo 2 (http://40.media.tumblr.com/c70e8ddd6897fe61b85acc87be9d53e7/tumblr_nruer1kXFT1un4i1ao2_1280.jpg), photo 3 (http://www.native-languages.org/images/hair2.jpg)), but it looks kind of difficult (not sure if it would be worn easily :hmm: ), it would be great to see a video, too. ;)

[littlestarface]

You guys should definitly check out the other 2 videos that relate to that one above, theyre really good! ^_^

[Wolfie]

^ Great stuff, Wolfie! :D

Thanks a bunch on the details of how different oils were used. :thumbsup:



I can definitely see that, since it promotes blood circulation... :agree: On this topic, I just wanted to add a study that showed how peppermint oil (3%) promoted hair growth in mice greater than jojoba oil and even greater than 3% minoxidil:
Peppermint Oil Promotes Hair Growth without Toxic Signs - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289931/

Oh wow! So I guess my auntie and ancestors were right (or heading in the right path). It does make sense now that I really think about it. Done hair products contain mint or peppermint, like Head and Shoulders for example. The article sound really interesting, I'll have to give it a look soon:)

[Wolfie]

I have to agree with nicolleteb it is very hilarious when I see someone claim native when there only 1/8 1/32 :lol:

Lol so true. It's hard to keep a straight face. And it's so awkward when they try to talk about the culture, especially when they are completely mixed up. And the "my great great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" bit. *sigh* I always want to retort something like " Damn the Cherokee really liked to have princesses" or "WTF why is everyone related to a princess?!?! Am I just a descendant of peasants Indians?"

[littlestarface]

Lol so true. It's hard to keep a straight face. And it's so awkward when they try to talk about the culture, especially when they are completely mixed up. And the "my great great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" bit. *sigh* I always want to retort something like " Damn the Cherokee really liked to have princesses" or "WTF why is everyone related to a princess?!?! Am I just a descendant of peasants Indians?"

Hahaha believe it or not I just saw that line on youtube yesterday:laugh: its so sad. What I always wonder is why do the majority say cherokee? I always wanna say "dam the cherokee really got around didnt they" :p but yeh I know they didnt I just wana tell them that.

lol yea didnt you know natives had royals, only the finest natives got to have all the mixed kids.

[neko_kawaii]

Hahaha believe it or not I just saw that line on youtube yesterday:laugh: its so sad. What I always wonder is why do the majority say cherokee? I always wanna say "dam the cherokee really got around didnt they" :p but yeh I know they didnt I just wana tell them that.

lol yea didnt you know natives had royals, only the finest natives got to have all the mixed kids.

Here is an anecdote that might explain why so many say Cherokee: one of my ancestors was part Cherokee and was left with her anglo relatives when the native part of her family was forced to relocate. The dates match with the Trail of Tears, but there were many forced relocations. *angry* I can't begin to imagine the heartbreak on all sides or how many other children were left behind with similar circumstances. A generation or so later in another state and another family is another grandmother identified as Cherokee. Now, there is no evidence besides some other unidentified ancestor's scrawl to inform me that these women were Cherokee, they may have had some other cultural affiliation but the unidentified recorder had heard of Cherokee and put that down. *shrug* At any rate, in my family, we learn about the tragedy of those separations and loss of culture. I don't know what generation that tradition started with, it might have been invented by my grandparents who were aware of history or it might be much older. I am not Native American, but I have ancestors who are.

[Wolfie]

Here is an anecdote that might explain why so many say Cherokee: one of my ancestors was part Cherokee and was left with her anglo relatives when the native part of her family was forced to relocate. The dates match with the Trail of Tears, but there were many forced relocations. *angry* I can't begin to imagine the heartbreak on all sides or how many other children were left behind with similar circumstances. A generation or so later in another state and another family is another grandmother identified as Cherokee. Now, there is no evidence besides some other unidentified ancestor's scrawl to inform me that these women were Cherokee, they may have had some other cultural affiliation but the unidentified recorder had heard of Cherokee and put that down. *shrug* At any rate, in my family, we learn about the tragedy of those separations and loss of culture. I don't know what generation that tradition started with, it might have been invented by my grandparents who were aware of history or it might be much older. I am not Native American, but I have ancestors who are.
Makes sense, but still doesn't explain why so many have "royal blood", but I guess sounds cooler to say you were related to a princess, rather than just plain Cherokee.

[sumidha]

Lol so true. It's hard to keep a straight face. And it's so awkward when they try to talk about the culture, especially when they are completely mixed up. And the "my great great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" bit. *sigh* I always want to retort something like " Damn the Cherokee really liked to have princesses" or "WTF why is everyone related to a princess?!?! Am I just a descendant of peasants Indians?"

It's the same people who were Marie Antoinette in their past life. ;)

[Wolfie]

It's the same people who were Marie Antoinette in their past life. ;)

Lol yup! I often feel like people think it makes them seem cooler to say they have Native blood, even if its like .0001%. A lot of my friends who are Native get very defensive over white people saying they have or are of Native blood. Can't say I haven't gotten a bit hotheaded over it. I often feel that it is appropriation because they usually have no proof to verify. Also with many places taking Native culture and making it a fashion or costume *cough* *cough* " Cochella", it makes it very irritating to see people who have no ties try to make themselves "like us" even though they blatantly insult our culture by wearing sacred dresses, amulets and etc. Or how they just mash all Native Nations (500+ of them) as one type of group. Usually the plains Indians (which I am part of). All rant aside, I'm proud of my culture and would like for it not to be tarnished since it has been destroyed enough as it is on both ends of my heritage.

[Swan Maiden]

This statue reminded me of this thread :)
http://i.imgur.com/kDod0GK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BFswHQn.jpg
I saw this different statue today. It is on my campus. There are many tribes located in my state,forgive my ignorance for not knowing whom she represents. I love the simplicity of this style.

[*Wednesday*]

Osyio (Cherokee word for hello)

I found some of the comments in this post bothersome, especially regarding the Tsalagi (Cherokee). I did not read every post, but from what I did read I needed to comment. Most is just ignorance. We don't use the term, "Native American" in Indian country or to refer to our ancestry in general. Whether people actually have ancestry from Aboriginal/Indigenous Americans is their claim. What I do know, US First Nations issue tribal cards to people which prove tribal lineage to their tribes. Step-by-step pedigree to an ancestor on Indian rolls kept by the US federal government during the colonial era. This is what Cherokee do.
There are three federally recognized Cherokee tribes. United Keetoowah, Cherokee Nation both of which were relocated to Oklahoma (formerly Indian Territory) and the Eastern Band Of Cherokee which remain in our homeland in Western North Carolina. Those three Cherokee tribes are "treaty" tribes with the US government. We are not unanimous, meaning not ONE Cherokee tribe. We have our own constitutions, ceremonies and beliefs as well as different criteria for enrollment. Cherokee were recorded on 16 Cherokee Indian roll before and after the Indian removal (a.k.a. Trail of Tears) by Andrew Jackson. First was the 1817 Reservation Roll was of all Cherokee peoples. Indian/tribes were not recorded on the general population census unless they were taxed Indians living off the reservations. Our ancestors were on tribal rolls. Those same rolls would be used to move complete tribes off our lands forcefully.

Shwwooo....:thud:Having said that. Many of the tribes in the US have a lot European mixture and African (more common in the southeastern tribes). European features and "blond" hair is seen in our Nations. Even with the largest tribe "racially" Indian the Dine (Navajo). Many tribes, their blood quanta will be min. 1/4 tribal blood to much less. Having one fullblood Indian grandparent, one has a very large chance of not having Indigenous features.

[lucid]

I have to agree with nicolleteb it is very hilarious when I see someone claim native when there only 1/8 1/32 :lol:

I'm 1/16 Cherokee (I think, but it could be 1/8 ). I think it's cool and have always been proud of that. I don't have any traits other than brown eyes and the fact that I don't easily sunburn (the other side of my family all have blue eyes and skin that easily sunburn, like most Scandinavians). My grandma is from Scandinavia, but lived in the US for a while and moved back shortly after having my mom. My mom has beautiful almost black hair, straight and coarse but silky at the same time. All her kids have brown eyes, and that is a genetic trait strictly passed on from that part of her family. Sadly, I have never gotten to know my American side of the family very well, but I have seen pictures of some of them and heard stories.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm not sure how to read your comment? Is it wrong to appreciate heritage even when it's only a tiny fraction or is the problem people that brag about it? I'm not American, so I know very little of what's "right or wrong" when it comes to this. Do I insult people if saying I'm 1/16 Cherokee?

[littlestarface]

I'm 1/16 Cherokee (I think, but it could be 1/8 ). I think it's cool and have always been proud of that. I don't have any traits other than brown eyes and the fact that I don't easily sunburn (the other side of my family all have blue eyes and skin that easily sunburn, like most Scandinavians). My grandma is from Scandinavia, but lived in the US for a while and moved back shortly after having my mom. My mom has beautiful almost black hair, straight and coarse but silky at the same time. All her kids have brown eyes, and that is a genetic trait strictly passed on from that part of her family. Sadly, I have never gotten to know my American side of the family very well, but I have seen pictures of some of them and heard stories.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm not sure how to read your comment? Is it wrong to appreciate heritage even when it's only a tiny fraction or is the problem people that brag about it? I'm not American, so I know very little of what's "right or wrong" when it comes to this. Do I insult people if saying I'm 1/16 Cherokee?

No it's okay to be proud of that part of every part of your family you have, nothing wrong in this.

It's just funny when someone claims or yes brags to be only that native when their great great gma was but neglect the 90% european they mostly are. It's sad and funny at the same time.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

My DH did a DNA test to check his ancestry as he was adopted at birth and wanted to find out something of his background. Turns out he's 9 per cent American Indian and 91 per cent European. In appearance he is totally European, and you would never guess that he has any American Indian blood. He does love to tell folks that he's part American Indian just to see their expression!

[lilelf]

I think "pride" is actually something that can be found in descendants of many different cultures. For example, and a near example too, I am 3rd generation Irish on my grandmother's side and many in my family practically consider themselves from Ireland. They are very, VERY proud of their heritage. It used to drive me berserk. As I have gotten older, I have learned to look at it a different way. It is a positive sign that someone would be proud to announce their connection, however small, to any culture that has, in past, been degraded, The irish included, the native especially. Not trying to hijack, rather, trying to put things more into perspective and inject some positivity. Years ago, even some born directly into certain different cultures did not want to admit it. Now, it is a source of pride for many. This is LOVELY, don't you think?? Just mho...
As for native practices, I have read that water only was used by some tribes, yucca and soap bark by some, and ground jojoba seeds made into a paste by others. (All from different sources, two being books written long ago that are no longer in print : "The Indians of New Jersey" and "The Indians of Delaware ", both written by a man who lived with these respective tribes for many years)
HIH