Humectant phobic hair?????

[K_Angel]

Is it just me or do others have hair that thinks that AVG, Glycerin and other humectants are designed to suck every ounce of moisture out of your hair???!!!????:rolleyes:

Humectants, I thought, were for putting moisture in your hair. But when I put it in my hair, I turn into the driest haired person I know.

I NEED moisture. How other than humectants and oils can I do that???

Anyone else in the same predicament and found a good solution????

[julliams]

I don't have this problem but I just wanted to suggest a Coconut Milk soak. I always go on about this because it works so well for me and I think it helped put moisture back into my hair.

I use Lite Coconut milk from a can. Divide can into three and use one third on up to waist length hair.

1. Get a bowl and put it in the bath/basin. Tip your head over the bowl and pour the coconut milk into your hair, massaging it in as you go to try and spread it as much as possible. It will drip into the bowl, so you can use the drippings until it is all massaged into your hair.

2. Put it up in a bun, secure with a finished hairstick, flexi 8 or anything that can withstand being wet.

3. Leave for about an hour (I go for a walk).

4. Wash, condition and dry as normal. Hopefully you enjoy more moisturised hair.

It's really cheap and works really well for me. Hope it helps.

[K_Angel]

I don't have this problem but I just wanted to suggest a Coconut Milk soak. I always go on about this because it works so well for me and I think it helped put moisture back into my hair.

I use Lite Coconut milk from a can. Divide can into three and use one third on up to waist length hair.

It's really cheap and works really well for me. Hope it helps.

Very cool idea. :)

I wonder, if the coconut oil makes my scalp itch, do you think that coconut milk (which makes me nauseated) would make my scalp itch? I don't know if there is a connection between the two or would it be no big deal to use it? :o

[julliams]

Perhaps try putting it in from the ears down and tying it up in a low bun? This might avoid the scalp. I would think the milk would be more soothing but you will have to try it to find out. Hope it works for you.

I just wanted to add that if coconut milk makes you feel sick, perhaps it's your bodies way of letting you know that it doesn't agree with you. Are you able to eat it in curries? If so I would say it will be fine for your head.

[growingpains]

Humeticants only pull moisture into your hair if you live in a place with a lot of moisture in the air. Otherwise they have the opposite effect.

Have you tried a leave in conditioner? Or a hair butter?

[Merlin]

Was I the only one who didn't read phobic in this thread title?

[K_Angel]

julliams: No, curries make me throw up. So maybe coconut products just aren't my friend?

growingpains: I've been looking for a good leave-in conditioner. My hair has just recently, last 4 months, changed and I'm still searching to find out how to manage this new hair of mine.

Merlin: :o

[torrilin]

Yeah, if you can't safely eat coconut milk, I'd tend to avoid coconut products for your hair. Topically a lot less would be absorbed but... better safe than sorry. There's no point in stressing your body out when you can probably use other ingredients with no trouble.

As far as adding moisture... think about the structure. Fine hair is supposed to lack the cortex that people with thicker hair have. Instead, we've got the protective scales and the layer they anchor to and not much else. Most hair products that are intended to be moisturizing are intended to penetrate the scales and the anchor layer to get to the cortex. The problem should be pretty obvious.

That means fine hair care needs to be fairly gentle, and you can't expect conditioner to do a whole lot besides add slip and help you detangle. Thankfully, I've found that a lot of what feels like dry hair to me is actually damaged or tangle prone hair, so treating the symptoms works fairly well.

[|Xei]

Try using a leave-in conditioner of some sort on towel-dried hair, then let the hair dry a bit. Afterwards, when your hair is still fairly damp, oil it.

This is what I've been doing for quite awhile (though I do live near water, so it's not very dry here), and my hair seems to retain moisture a lot better. The damp-oiling seems to help lock-in moisture.

[Jenn of Pence]

I've been asking this question about the forum recently, too! As someone mentioned, the humectant will, like Robin Hood, take from the moisture rich and and give to the moisture poor. If your hair is dry and the air about you is moderately damp, it can pull moisture into the hair. But using too much humectant on moist hair in a dry climate runs the risk of "donating" moisture to the environment. I'm still piecing it all together, but this is my understanding so far. I also am looking for moisturizing tips! :D

[ravenreed]

No. My brain substituted another word, five letters long that begins with p and ends with c. :D


Was I the only one who didn't read phobic in this thread title?

[Athena's Owl]

I have this problem and avoid humectants like the plague. calgary is very dry and never has a dew point high enough to use humectants, not even on the hottest days.

you might want to try tracking your dew point, because humecatnts only work in a very narrow dew point range. if your area is too dry or too moist then humectants will not work on your hair.

The "sweet spot" for humectants is a dew point of 45 - 60 f, or 7 - 16 c.

and it's the dew point, NOT the relative humidity! you can calculate dew point from temperature and relative humidity if your weather information doesn't provide it. but if you google "Name of city weather dewpoint" you should be able to find a site to tell you.

Today, it's 57 f and relative humidity is 28%. I don't even need to do the math - it's too dry for humectants. Like it always is in calgary, every single day of the year.

[Intransigentia]

Hi fellow Albertan!

I also find that it's never humid enough here for humectants to do me any good. I stick with damp oiling and/or movie star shampoo, and that works great, but all those humectants like honey, aloe, and whatnot, do just nothing for me.

[celebriangel]

Damp oiling is the way forward for me - locks in the moisture, I find. I use Nightblooming's panacea hair salve - the regular and the winter are a little heavier, so as a finehair you are likely to find the summer blend the best. I put some on wet hair as an oil and leave-in, because I am lazy and like one-step things. Also, it smells heavenly and my ends have never been so soft.

I would also second the leave-in conditioner on wet hair + oil on damp hair. Do you use cones? If so, Aussie do a great leave-in spray, smells heavenly, and jojoba oil might work well for your fine hair if you can't use coconut oil. Other options include camellia oil and sweet almond oil. If you don't use cones - and if you do as well, actually - you can just use a teensy bit of slightly diluted regular conditioner as a leave-in on wet hair. Many on here do, since the ingredients are essentially the same.

I would put any leave-ins on wet/damp hair if you really want to seal in moisture. I put leave-in conditioners on wet hair, but oils and butters on damp because wet hair makes it look and feel like I've put in less than I have (on me, anyway) and I always put on too much.

Good luck!

I have also found, as an aside, that going conefree has made it easier to moisturise my hair, since the cone buildup is not blocking it out and any oil I use is washed out with each wash. Conefree does not agree with everyone, however, but I have observed that in my experience on here people with wurls find going conefree to be beneficial more often than other hair types.

[x0h_bother]

MEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to try and not use conditioner this summer. I know that sounds terrible but I have never had an issue with dryness..until I began using conditioners. Humectants=arch enemy.

[K_Angel]

torrilin: Interesing observation on fine hair. I knew that we had little cortex.. But I wasn’t sure how that really affected my hair?

|Xei : What type of oil do you use that doesn’t flatten out your fine hair? And how much do you use?

Athena's Owl: Ah, now I see about the humidity... Well, our weather sometimes has that much humidity in it, but since I have a sensitivity to dust mites, I have to kill them with 35% humidity levels in the house. So, that is obviously contributing largely to my problem with humectants.

I've never quite gotten my head around the fact that basically fine hair is hair without the stuff you need to have hair? I don't think I quite get it yet. :o

Intransigentia: I think besides the humidity problem I have, honey, AVG, and the like also seem to sort of fry my hair... I was wondering what movie star shampoo is?

celebriangel: I have been wondering about Nightblooming's panacea hair salve. I have heard a lot of people like it, but most of them didn’t have fine hair, so I wasn’t sure... And it wasn’t cheap to just try out. How much of it do you use and how do you apply it to your hair? Rub it in your hands?

Currently I am using cones. I tried going cone free for about a year and really damaged my hair. I think the cones were providing a lot of protection for my fine hair and helped with my VERY tanglefest hair. But I also use a clarifying shampoo, so I don’t have to worry about the build up. But I think the oil would work under the cones and the cones would seal in the Nightblooming's panacea hair salve or oil?

However, since my hair recently (read: last 4 months) has changed (again!!!!) from a 2a/b to a 2b/c it’s been a very radical change in hair care. So, I’m beginning to wonder if I need to try cone free again, just because my hair is getting some wurly rather than just wavy.... (sigh) Just when I had a good routine going, my hair changes completely! :rolleyes:

Thanks everyone for your great help! :blossom:

[Athena's Owl]

basically what I do with my hair - I have fine hair mixed with some medium hair, and I have very low porosity - is I turn to emollients for my hair moisture. This means oils.

now because my hair is quite curly I can get away with using say coconut oil on my hair, particularly if I just use it on the last six inches and put it on while my hair is soaking wet. but it might be too much for you. I'd suggest trying a lighter, thinner oil. jojoba, maybe, or Camellia oil. I use camellia on my crown and through the length when I'm scrunching out the gel crunch. it makes my hair look quite shiny. I'd say for my TBL length hair I put a penny-sized amount in my palm, swipe it along my hands, and run my hands gently over my hair.

Movie star shampoo is hand mixing coconut oil and a minimalist shampoo and washing with that, and skipping the conditioner. as a type 2 it might work out really well for you. My type three hair needs conditioner to *look* good, but the movie star shampoo felt really fantastic.

[SurprisingWoman]

I had to click on this thread just because the thread title made me laugh.......

and wonder.

I am a dirty, dirty girl.

:)

[gthlvrmx]

MEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to try and not use conditioner this summer. I know that sounds terrible but I have never had an issue with dryness..until I began using conditioners. Humectants=arch enemy.

Suave Ocean Breeze and Wild Cherry Bark(or Blossom?) are humectant, cone, and protein free :D I'm planning on trying it for the summer, too dry here.

Edit: I'm unsure if these conditioners are humectant free, maybe even protein free. Someone told me the lactic acid in some conditioners are humectants. But for sure they are cone free!

[K_Angel]

basically what I do with my hair - I have fine hair mixed with some medium hair, and I have very low porosity - is I turn to emollients for my hair moisture. This means oils.

now because my hair is quite curly I can get away with using say coconut oil on my hair, particularly if I just use it on the last six inches and put it on while my hair is soaking wet. but it might be too much for you. I'd suggest trying a lighter, thinner oil. jojoba, maybe, or Camellia oil. I use camellia on my crown and through the length when I'm scrunching out the gel crunch. it makes my hair look quite shiny. I'd say for my TBL length hair I put a penny-sized amount in my palm, swipe it along my hands, and run my hands gently over my hair.

Movie star shampoo is hand mixing coconut oil and a minimalist shampoo and washing with that, and skipping the conditioner. as a type 2 it might work out really well for you. My type three hair needs conditioner to *look* good, but the movie star shampoo felt really fantastic.


I have low porosity hair also! And that makes everything more difficult! And I've been at a crossroads trying to figure out how to take care of my hair. :justy:

My hair seems to like camellia oil, so I'll try that one, using it as you describe.

Actually last night when I washed my hair, I added a few drops of Camellia oil into my shampoo and it was quite lovely. My hair is super soft today, which it hasn't been in a long long time.

I guess I couldn't do the movie star shampoo because I can't use the coconut oil. It makes my scalp burn and itch.

Thank you for the great suggestions! :blossom:


SurprisingWoman: I did spell phobic right didn't I?????

gthlvrmx: Good to know! Thanks! :)

[x0h_bother]

Suave Ocean Breeze and Wild Cherry Bark(or Blossom?) are humectant, cone, and protein free :D I'm planning on trying it for the summer, too dry here.
Nice! When I use up a product I should try this one! Or await your review :)

[Ashenputtel]

I love humectant and ocean breeze is my favorite suave conditionner. But I live on an Island and it's raining all the time lately.

[K_Angel]

Nice! When I use up a product I should try this one! Or await your review :)


Suave Naturals Conditioner, Ocean Breeze
Ingredients
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum) Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1, 3-Diol.
Tocopheryl Acetate [Vitamin E Acetate], Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Sorbitol, Algae(Algae) Extract, FD&C Green No. 3 (CL 42053), FD&C Yellow No. 5 (Cl 19140).

This is a type of salt. And it does encourage waves, but salt is not particularly good for your hair and must be very drying too. So, I just wanted to let you know. :)

GRU (on the Wavy/Wurly thread, I think) gave a great URL for looking up what something is in a formula: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products

[gthlvrmx]

Suave Naturals Conditioner, Ocean Breeze
Ingredients
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum) Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1, 3-Diol.
Tocopheryl Acetate [Vitamin E Acetate], Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Sorbitol, Algae(Algae) Extract, FD&C Green No. 3 (CL 42053), FD&C Yellow No. 5 (Cl 19140).

This is a type of salt. And it does encourage waves, but salt is not particularly good for your hair and must be very drying too. So, I just wanted to let you know. :)

GRU (on the Wavy/Wurly thread, I think) gave a great URL for looking up what something is in a formula: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products
So would Wild Cherry Blossom be a better choice than Ocean breeze?
EDIT: The ingredients for both conditoners have the pottasium chloride. But it also has Disodium EDTA which works a chelating agent so would that cancel out the salt? Im guessing no.

[HintOfMint]

I think your best bet is to focus on sealing moisture in. Basically, when you wash/rinse your hair, take an oil or other type of emollient and work it through your hair. If the air around you is really dry, then moisture from your shower is pretty much the only moisture you're going to get, so work on sealing that in.

According to Ktani, mineral oil works really well when used sparingly at the ends, and this is only on wet hair, not to be used in between washes on dry hair.

Hope this was helpful.

[Hollyfire3]

I don't have this problem but I just wanted to suggest a Coconut Milk soak. I always go on about this because it works so well for me and I think it helped put moisture back into my hair.

I use Lite Coconut milk from a can. Divide can into three and use one third on up to waist length hair.

1. Get a bowl and put it in the bath/basin. Tip your head over the bowl and pour the coconut milk into your hair, massaging it in as you go to try and spread it as much as possible. It will drip into the bowl, so you can use the drippings until it is all massaged into your hair.

2. Put it up in a bun, secure with a finished hairstick, flexi 8 or anything that can withstand being wet.

3. Leave for about an hour (I go for a walk).

4. Wash, condition and dry as normal. Hopefully you enjoy more moisturised hair.

It's really cheap and works really well for me. Hope it helps.


This works for me also! But, i used it as an after shampoo DT and was left with lots of residue, this way seems like the PERFECT way to prevent that!

[gthlvrmx]

I think your best bet is to focus on sealing moisture in. Basically, when you wash/rinse your hair, take an oil or other type of emollient and work it through your hair. If the air around you is really dry, then moisture from your shower is pretty much the only moisture you're going to get, so work on sealing that in.

According to Ktani, mineral oil works really well when used sparingly at the ends, and this is only on wet hair, not to be used in between washes on dry hair.

Hope this was helpful.
Hmm see ive tried this with olive oil and it turned out to be a disaster both times, i got overmoisturized hair for some reason and got lots of splits.
And mineral oil i tried already and it gave me splits like crazy. Thank you for your response! Maybe i'll try a different oil next time!

[jeanniet]

Was I the only one who didn't read phobic in this thread title?
Haha, no. My first thought was, why is she posting about that?

K Angel, humectants may work for you if you mix them with water, such as in a mister bottle. Humectants in heavy concentrations are a problem for me, but used in a spray bottle they're usually fine. If you're in the Pacific NW you should be OK this time of year anyway, unless you're spending a lot of time indoors in well-heated rooms.

ETA: Oops, my bad. Old thread!

[ktani]

According to Ktani, mineral oil works really well when used sparingly at the ends, and this is only on wet hair, not to be used in between washes on dry hair.

Not quite.

Cosmetic mineral oil/baby oil can rehydrate hair best used on damp or very damp hair without a lot of conditioner used at one time or other leave-in products, or hair without a lot build-up, and it can be used on dry hair, under the same circumstances, that has a good moisture level.

When used the above ways, it has not been reported to cause split ends, which are caused by dryness, just the opposite.

ETA: Used over a lot of product or build-up it is not going to do much at all except further layer the hair with another coating and the excess coatings cause dryness and split ends, not the mineral oil itself.

[gthlvrmx]

this was taken from Amari from a thread in 2009
Suave Ocean Breeze i think. says the "salt" is a thickener. I havent had any drying problems with this conditioner and ive been using it since last June.
Ingredients:
Water,
Cetyl Alcohol – (Fatty Alcohol) – emollient effect/lubricity/emulsion stabilization
Cetrimonium Chloride – (Cationic sufactant) - conditioning/detergency
Fragrance
Potassium Chloride – (Thickener)
Distearyldimonium Chloride (Cationic surfactant) – conditioning/detergency
Disodium EDTA – (Chelating agent) – improve stability and performance – reacts with metal ions in water
2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1,3-Diol – (also known as Bronopol ) – (Preservative)
Tocopheryl Acetate - (Vitamin E)
Methylchloroisothiazolinone – (Preservative)
Methylisothiazolinone – (Preservative)
Sorbitol – (Nonionic surfactant) – gentle cleansing/emulsion stabilization
Algae Extract
FD&C Yellow NO.5, FD&C Green No.3.

[ktani]

this was taken from Amari from a thread in 2009
Suave Ocean Breeze i think. says the "salt" is a thickener. I havent had any drying problems with this conditioner and ive been using it since last June.
Ingredients:
Water,
Cetyl Alcohol – (Fatty Alcohol) – emollient effect/lubricity/emulsion stabilization
Cetrimonium Chloride – (Cationic sufactant) - conditioning/detergency
Fragrance
Potassium Chloride – (Thickener)
Distearyldimonium Chloride (Cationic surfactant) – conditioning/detergency
Disodium EDTA – (Chelating agent) – improve stability and performance – reacts with metal ions in water
2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1,3-Diol – (also known as Bronopol ) – (Preservative)
Tocopheryl Acetate - (Vitamin E)
Methylchloroisothiazolinone – (Preservative)
Methylisothiazolinone – (Preservative)
Sorbitol – (Nonionic surfactant) – gentle cleansing/emulsion stabilization
Algae Extract
FD&C Yellow NO.5, FD&C Green No.3.

Have you clarified at all since using it? Cetyl alcohol is waxy. It also builds-up. Sorbitol is a humectant and algae extract also build-up.

Cetyl alcohol
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cetyl%20alcohol
"a waxy crystalline alcohol"

Sorbitol
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details&id=38191

ETA: There is not much sorbitol or algae extract in there. The sorbitol is probably there to keep the product moist, not your hair, but the conditioner wax will create problems over time if not periodically removed, or you would not be having them now.

[gthlvrmx]

Have you clarified at all since using it? Cetyl alcohol is waxy. It also builds-up. Sorbitol is a humectant and algae extract also build-up.

Cetyl alcohol
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cetyl%20alcohol
"a waxy crystalline alcohol"

Sorbitol
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details&id=38191
oh thank you for all that! I haven't recently but i think i will soon, next wash. My hair feels funny to me. I clarified in January i think and used club soda along with an ACV rinse. Sorbital is a humectant? I didnt know that.

[ktani]

oh thank you for all that! I haven't but i think i will soon, next wash. My hair feels funny to me. I clarified in December i think and used club soda along with an ACV rinse. Sorbital is a humectant? I didnt know that.

You are very welcome. Like I just added there is not much in there.

And acv and club soda are not product clarifiers. They can and do remove mineral deposits, not waxes or polymers, resins etc. This is a common (for here) mistake a number of people make. Diluted vinegar can also remove soap scum but not what is on your hair and has not been removed.

[gthlvrmx]

You are very welcome. Like I just added there is not much in there.

And acv and club soda are not product clarifiers. They can and do remove mineral deposits, not waxes or polymers, resins etc. This is a common (for here) mistake a number of people make. Diluted vinegar can also remove soap scum but not what is on your hair and has not been removed.
Oh i used it the club soda and acv because i was in the hospital washing my hair with hard water. I used a clarifying shampoo for the waxy buildup(and i had an essential oil stuck in my hair), i can tell it does build up a little.

[ktani]

Oh i used it the club soda and acv because i was in the hospital washing my hair with hard water. I used a clarifying shampoo for the waxy buildup(and i had an essential oil stuck in my hair), i can tell it does build up a little.

Ah - good. However, certain clarifying shampoos cause build-up of their own like Suave with hydroyethylcellulose and others with aloe and more cetyl alcohol. It is confusing.

[gthlvrmx]

Ah - good. However, certain clarifying shampoos cause build-up of their own like Suave with hydroyethylcellulose and others with aloe and more cetyl alcohol. It is confusing.
So which clarifyer would you recommend? I heard neautrogena anti-residue was good but im unsure.

[ktani]

So which clarifyer would you recommend? I heard neautrogena anti-residue was good but im unsure.

It is one of the best in my opinion and has been reported to be fairly mild on hair and scalp. It depends on how much build-up you have as to whether you can remove all or most of it with one wash.

Then lightly condition afterward, and you are good to go. It is not necessary to use the amount of conditioner most people use to have great hair. You can try the mineral oil/baby oil again on damp hair or not. I love it.

ETA: If you do use small drops and only what is needed and it will not make your hair greasy. It spreads very easily and is not detectable when little is used other than results, which for me on damp or dry hair have been amazing. My hair is not dry so I can use it on dry hair. For you after clarifying and lightly conditioning, I would use it on damp hair.

[gthlvrmx]

It is one of the best in my opinion and has been reported to be fairly mild on hair and scalp. It depends on how much build-up you have as to whether you can remove all or most of it with one wash.

Then lightly condition afterward, and you are good to go. It is not necessary to use the amount of conditioner most people use to have great hair. You can try the mineral oil/baby oil again on damp hair or not. I love it.

ETA: If you do use small drops and only what is needed and it will not make your hair greasy. It spreads very easily and is not detectable when little is used other than results, which for me on damp or dry hair have been amazing. My hair is not dry so I can use it on dry hair. For you after clarifying and lightly conditioning, I would use it on damp hair.
Ah thank for that! I will go out and buy some!

[ktani]

Ah thank for that! I will go out and buy some!

You are very welcome.

Good luck and happy growing!

[Helix]

What's the humidity like in your neck of the woods? Don't know if it's been mentioned already but I remember reading somewhere that humectants work best when the dew point is between 1.5 - 10°C. I'll see if I can find the link...

[gthlvrmx]

What's the humidity like in your neck of the woods? Don't know if it's been mentioned already but I remember reading somewhere that humectants work best when the dew point is between 1.5 - 10°C. I'll see if I can find the link...
The OP's info says the Pacific northwest, so a little more wet than down here in sunny socal.

[hellucy]

The 1st time I did an SMT my hair loved it, the 2nd my hair went to straw. The only difference - the weather it was a damp day the 1st time & a cold dry day the 2nd.
Since then if I do any treatments with humectants in I put a pan of water on to boil & then sit in the steamy kitchen while the treatment is on. After rinsing my hair is Soooo soft & moisturised its amazing.
Humectants only seem to work for the better when the surrounding air has higher moisture levels.

[gthlvrmx]

Have you clarified at all since using it? Cetyl alcohol is waxy. It also builds-up. Sorbitol is a humectant and algae extract also build-up.

Cetyl alcohol
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cetyl%20alcohol
"a waxy crystalline alcohol"

Sorbitol
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details&id=38191

ETA: There is not much sorbitol or algae extract in there. The sorbitol is probably there to keep the product moist, not your hair, but the conditioner wax will create problems over time if not periodically removed, or you would not be having them now.
oh my god i forgot about all this information, no wonder i get flakes and itchiness with Ocean Breeze Conditioner! tried CO washing for a month and every end of the month, i get flakes and itchiness.
But it's funny, my hair hasn't dried out too much with the Sorbitol. I really need to bookmark this who page it has tons of good information.