Forgive me o gods of no 'poo

[theodora]

Have you ever just given up on the hair regimen you were trying? Last night, I used shampoo. I had gone for over three weeks without traditional shampoo, using BS and ACV mostly, with a couple of CO in between. I feel so disheartened, but I felt like I had no choice.

On Thursday night, I covered my hair in coconut oil before going to sleep. I used to do this a lot before going no 'poo and I felt like a nice treat after 3 weeks of BS/ACV and occasional CO. Well, that was not very clever.
Friday morning I do my BS/ACV and I rinsed and rinsed and rinsed and rubbed and rubbed but could not get rid of the oil! Went to work with my hair up in a bun, still oily.

In the evening, I thought, let's find another shampoo alternative as I really want to get rid of the oil but at the same time, don't want to break my no 'poo diet. So I found an egg shampoo recipe here and used that (whole egg teaspoon of honey and squirt of lemon and chamomile rinse with another squirt of lemon).
I let the egg shampoo sit on my head for a while then went to lather it up and rinse. And lo and behold! My head was still oily! Again I rinsed and rinsed and rubbed until I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. So I grabbed shampoo (burt's bees colour keeper, sulfate free) and I washed. The oil disappeared in less than 30 second. Finished with an ACV rinse.


Went to sleep with wet hair and woke up with:
the BEST hair EVER. It was soft, silky, shiny and with some major root lift.

Okay so I'm slightly exaggerating, it's not exactly perfect as somehow by the evening, it feels that my ends are a bit drier. I miss the natural oil coated ends of my previous no 'poo days.



So my questions are:
- have you ever betrayed a hair routine you'd promise yourself you'd stick too? did you feel as guilty as I do?

-all you no 'pooers, how do you manage to get oil out of your hair? Do you just not cover your head in oil?:confused:

[christine1989]

I used to be totally no poo but now I use it regularly. The trick for me was finding a middle ground. Rather than using a harsh shampoo the totally strips hair I use a very natural, moisturizing one with no SLS (Aubrey organics camellia shampoo if you were wondering). It gets just the right amount of oil out without taking it ALL out. Using a moisturizing shampoo makes oilings pretty unnecissary for me but when I do oil I NEED an SLS shampoo to get it all out so don't feel bad if you need a good, strong shampoo to remove oil. It's not "betraying your routine" if it works for you. :)

[theodora]

I used to be totally no poo but now I use it regularly. The trick for me was finding a middle ground. Rather than using a harsh shampoo the totally strips hair I use a very natural, moisturizing one with no SLS (Aubrey organics camellia shampoo if you were wondering). It gets just the right amount of oil out without taking it ALL out. Using a moisturizing shampoo makes oilings pretty unnecissary for me but when I do oil I NEED an SLS shampoo to get it all out so don't feel bad if you need a good, strong shampoo to remove oil. It's not "betraying your routine" if it works for you. :)

Thanks for reassuring me, and I am glad I'm not the only one who can't get oil out of her hair with just baking soda. I thought perhaps it just meant I was completely inept and wasn't doing it properly!

[cowgirllong]

I was no 'poo for a long time. A year and a half I think. At first I did baking soda, but it wasn't good for my hair, I went water only. I eventually went back to shampoo because my head got super itchy and I had a horrible case of dandruff. And I have very dark brown hair. Kind of embarrassing going out in public with huge white flakes in your hair. I agonized over the decision for several months. It was hard to quit a routine that I had liked so much. I loved the way I could get my hair to do stuff I wanted it to do. I still miss that. It seems like I just oiled the very ends of my hair when I was water only. Like the last 3 or 4 inches.

[Alvrodul]

First: Your hair is happy. That is the main thing!!:)

I have tried to go no-poo a couple of times. It did not work for me - but I think it was good for my hair to have a "holiday" from anything stronger than water when I tried it. :p I have also tried CO. I had sort of mixed results with that - CWC worked better. I really wanted the CO washing to work!! It isn't particularly effective for me, though.
My present regimen is SLS-free poo bars (I ordered from Chagrin Valley a while back, and am presently working my way through the items I ordered - my hair so far likes them very well indeed!). When my hair gets uppity it tends to be a case of buildup, and then I clarify with some of my old SLS products, which gets rid of the gunk.
No cones for me, though my hair fortunately doesn't pitch a fit if it meets them. It doesn't care for proteins, though, so I avoid that.
Vinegar rinses and oil - my hair likes oils, and I am perhaps a tad generous with it. That's basically it, for me!:D

[littlenvy]

:p haha! I gave up on a lot of rutines. Seems I like trying stuff on my hair way too much to stick to just one thing.
However; in the process I have found what does work for me and what doesn't.

PS. I started out with no'poo/water only and it was great for what my hair needed at that time.

[ooo]

I can't stick to a regime either. The best thing is to just stick to whatever I feel like :)

[squiggyflop]

i gave up on shampoo bars. sure i felt a little guilty, but my hair was so happy with the regular shampoo that i never looked back.

[theodora]

Glad I'm not the only quitter here!
I think experimenting is good, it's just that I can be a bit extreme, like recently I put all of my shampoos wth sulfates and conditioners with silicones away in a bag. (that was actually a lot of product).
My fiance was like, what the hell are you doing? I was gonna put it all away so I wasn't tempted to use them, but he has now started using them (which is funny and now his hair smells all nice and girly).

I guess the lesson to learn from no 'poo is that less is more. Maybe going cold turkey is too difficult but I will keep from it the fact that washing my hair less often is good, and using sls the least often possible helps.
And cutting out silicones in conditioner and styling products has helped the major buildup I was sporting previously. Win! (as the maSheen would say)

[growingpains]

I wouldn't worry about it. Many people use shampoo and grow to great lengths. Shampoo is not bad in and of itself and you used a gentle shampoo so good on ya.

Routines are just 'routines', they aren't hard and fast 'rules', and are made to be broken in the right circumstances.

Frame it positively. You learnt oil and your new no-poo routine don't go so well together. Next time avoid oil or try a lighter oil or less of it.

Alternately you may want to consider that if oiling your hair is important to you and your hair likes it, you may have to compromise on your routine and occasionally break out the poo.

That said, many people on here find CO an effective way, if not the most effective way, of getting rid of oil, so maybe next time try that (be sure to use cone free!).

[ravenreed]

I have tried a lot of things since joining LHC and most things didn't work. A few things worked so well that I am very, very glad to have found them, like the CO method. If something doesn't work, I just go back to what does. BTW, I find that CO removes oil very easily from my hair.

[elbow chic]

No 'poo was an unqualified disaster the last time I tried it. Every wash made my hair nastier than the one before it.

At the time, I felt a teeeeeeensy bit of guilt that my vanity was trashing Mother Earth, but I have had four kids since then, which is certainly an act of eco-terrorism that would dwarf even the most ardent product junky. ;)

[bumblebums]

I haven't touched shampoo in 1.5 years and do not miss it.

When I do a heavy oiling, I get it out with egg yolk. No added stuff--just egg yolk, or a couple of them. Finish it off with an acidic rinse if I feel like it. It works like a charm.

Another thing that works really well with a pre-oiling is Indian herbs. There is an article on them with various recipes in the articles section.

In the future, if you like getting shiny awesome hair, try a beer rinse (http://www.longhaircommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55808).

[GRU]

Just do what makes YOU and YOUR HAIR happy -- there is no "right way" to do any of this!

But just for future reference, CO-washing removes coconut oil just fine for many folks, including me. (Funnily enough, I used Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut Conditioner to remove a heavy coconut oiling just this morning!)

[Kherome]

CO easily removes oil.

[Chiara]

I went WO for around 4 weeks, then experimented with different washes on a weekly basis for another 4 weeks (eggs- which cleaned brilliantly, but made my hair frizz and go yellow; soap nuts, which I just couldn't get the hang of). I had used CO for years before discovering LHC, although I wasn't entirely happy with that (but it was better then conventional shampoo WC).
Now I use a weekly shampoo- a mild sulfate-free one, as a PP said, and I used WO rinses in between. We're getting into winter here, and its getting very dry, so I think I might start stretching out my shampoo washes even more.
So, I like to think of it as adapting, not failing ;)

[Mesmerise]

Well I find CO is good at removing most oils (like coconut oil) but haven't tried to remove EVOO... probably because I haven't used EVOO although I'm considering it lol.

However, that being said, you need to find what works for YOU. I like to try 30 day experiments, and see how my hair goes in that time. At the moment I am doing CO, and I want to continue with it. I will probably use a clarifying shampoo once a month though, before hennaing, and then maybe after hennaing if my hair feels a little resinous or stiff.

I have tried a few things, but have yet to alight on my own holy grail of hair washing!

[Firefox7275]

Don't see this as a fail or quit, you successfully stretched shampoos several weeks and you learned something about your hair and oils. Baking soda is not necessarily gentler than a sulphate shampoo, someone on here looked at their hair under the microscope after clarifying and saw the cuticles were completely ruffled.

Loads of LHCers are following modified versions of a given method. Not everyone who CO-washes uses the same product, not everyone who heavy oils uses the same amount or the same frequency, some wash-out conditioner and some leave-in. :shrug:

[Firefox7275]

Double post!

[WittyWordsmith]

I did a nice EVOO over-night last night. Using V05 to CO, I got it all out. The trick is to make sure you scrub nice and good, and then give it lots of soaking time before completely rinsing.

I'm always so surprised how clean my hair gets after I put all that oil in!

[Ishje]

I had exactly the same thing happening when I went no poo.
my hair got so weird and greasy, and at the same time the ends where getting dryer and dryer.
so after 3 weeks I also decided to use shampoo, and my hair was great XD

I guess it is just a matter of trying witch routine works for you.

[theodora]

Thanks for all the info guys!
It's good to know that CO can get oil out. The reason why I haven't taken CO for a serious trial run yet, is that I can't seem to find a cone-free conditioner I like. But I'll definitely keep in mind that CO can get oil out.

[Jean Stuart]

CO easily removes oil.


Thats what I was thinking. :D Also I was thinking trial and error is the way you find out what works. My question is how was your hair liking the baking soda washes? I found it to be kind of drying and rough. I only do it rarely now if my scalp flakes up. Thanks to LHC that is a rare occurrence.

[Jean Stuart]

Thanks for all the info guys!
It's good to know that CO can get oil out. The reason why I haven't taken CO for a serious trial run yet, is that I can't seem to find a cone-free conditioner I like. But I'll definitely keep in mind that CO can get oil out.


The dollar tree has a few great ones, Silkience, Spa-haus, Tame to name a few.

[spidermom]

I thought I had found IT when I tried CO the 2nd or 3rd time, but I soon discovered that the more times I did CO in a row, the more limp and stringy my hair looked and the more my scalp itched. When I changed to CWC with diluted shampoo, the results were consistently so good that I haven't tried anything else.

Baking soda is more harsh on your hair than most shampoos, which are formulated to be compatible with your scalp's natural acid mantle. BS is alkaline, which totally disrupts the natural balance. It can leave the scalp more vulnerable to fungus infections.

[SurprisingWoman]

One of my favorite/least favorite things about LHC is how there are sooooo many different options. I see new people join and they start doing no-poos and CO's and WO's and SO's and CWC's and SMT's and oils and vag cream and vitamins and teas and.....

It is soooo wonderful that there is a place where you learn sooo much from soooo many about all these options but it is really overwhelming at times.

When I came here I had already transitioned through my color to gray phase. I had been a long hair for years so I knew what I liked and what my hair liked but I still had to try new stuff to see what I was missing.

Turns out, I wasn't missing much. It makes no difference if I oil before washing and my hair HATES protein and aloe.

I am pretty much at the same routine I was before. You will find your own way, with the help of all the wonderful advice and options that are here but NEVER feel like a failure because something that works for someone else doesn't work for you.

It's YOUR hair. Listen to it. It will guide you.

[theodora]

Thats what I was thinking. :D Also I was thinking trial and error is the way you find out what works. My question is how was your hair liking the baking soda washes? I found it to be kind of drying and rough. I only do it rarely now if my scalp flakes up. Thanks to LHC that is a rare occurrence.
Hi Jean Stuart!
So the baking soda I did not find drying at all, but probably cause I was making it very weak, more like a rinse, as I had been warned about it's potential drying effect. And since I have dry hair and a quite sensitive scalp, I thought it was better to err on the side of caution.

As a result, my washes with BS and ACV rinses were fairly weak and I felt still a little oily afterwards. But my ends looked really really nice. And since I shampooed the other night, they have looked a little drier (even if I did some oiling and egg prior).

It seems that CO is the logical next step for me to try. After reading the CO thread, I feel that I understand how it works slightly better. The last time I tried CO, I felt that my hair was limp and greasy afterwards. But, I did not leave it on much, and perhaps I need to do some sort of rinse after it.

Do any of you do rinses (ACV/herbal/tea etc) after CO?

[Joribear]

Hi Jean Stuart!
So the baking soda I did not find drying at all, but probably cause I was making it very weak, more like a rinse, as I had been warned about it's potential drying effect. And since I have dry hair and a quite sensitive scalp, I thought it was better to err on the side of caution.

As a result, my washes with BS and ACV rinses were fairly weak and I felt still a little oily afterwards. But my ends looked really really nice. And since I shampooed the other night, they have looked a little drier (even if I did some oiling and egg prior).

It seems that CO is the logical next step for me to try. After reading the CO thread, I feel that I understand how it works slightly better. The last time I tried CO, I felt that my hair was limp and greasy afterwards. But, I did not leave it on much, and perhaps I need to do some sort of rinse after it.

Do any of you do rinses (ACV/herbal/tea etc) after CO?

I do an ACV rinse after I CO - it's not necessary, but my hair is shiny afterwards! :)

If you're having problems with your hair being greasy & limp after a CO wash, try leaving it on for a bit longer and see how your hair feels. If you still struggle with finding the right timeline for your hair with CO, have you tried CWC?

[azhie]

I like the concept of no 'poo a lot, but not the constantly greasy hair so much. I did feel bad the first time I used a poo bar after a couple months of WO. I felt that maybe I didn't persevere long enough. But the experimenting process did a lot for me, shampooing once a week instead of daily, less itching, less tangles, more manageable. I'm content with my hair for the time being and the last time that happened was when I shaved my head and didn't have any hair to think about! Thanks to alot of hair care tips on LHC :)

[theodora]

I do an ACV rinse after I CO - it's not necessary, but my hair is shiny afterwards! :)

If you're having problems with your hair being greasy & limp after a CO wash, try leaving it on for a bit longer and see how your hair feels. If you still struggle with finding the right timeline for your hair with CO, have you tried CWC?

I haven't tried CWC, mostly I guess my biggest issue is shampoo. I need to find the right type of shampoo, or perhaps maybe try castile soap or some other type of soap, maybe rasshoul or some other clay as well.
I'm someone who has spent fortunes on hair products, I really mean fortunes, and would always have about 20 sets of S&C at all times. I've spent so much money on products from brands like Kerastase, Redken, Moroccanoil, but I find with all the traditional shampoos and conditioner, my hair looks amazing for maybe 24 hours and then my roots start getting greasy and my ends look dry.

Maybe I'm just too picky? But I really want to find a good option that would be environmentally okay and still work on my hair (and sadly most of the sls/cone free stuff I've used just makes my hair look dry and depressed).

My hair is damaged and depressed. And I'm sure some of you have the same problem where having bad hair just gets you down. I don't want to be superficial, but it's getting to me. :(

[wvgemini]

I can't stick to no 'poo. I usually do CO during the week when my hair is going to be in a bun for work anyway, but on the weekends I wash normally with one of my Lush shampoos or shampoo bars or something. My hair likes a bit of sulfate but it's just faster to CO during the work week.

[cygus]

I'm new to this community and have a few questions/clarifications:

- What is CO? Is it washing your hair with Conditioner Only? Can someone please give me instructions on how to do this? It seems counterintuitive to me that a conditioner wash would remove oil, especially coconut oil.

I started experimenting with traditional shampoo/conditioner alternative a couple months ago and am still trying to find what works consistently. I've been feeling that my hair is just getting drier on the 'outside' length, and too greasy too quick at the roots. I'm done with trying to fight my hair's natural texture, but I do want healthy hair and am trying to grow it to my waist (currently at BSL, but heavily layered). BS/ACV did not work for me except once, but couldn't reproduce the perfect storm.

I've also been trying an oil/shampoo (1:1 ratio) mixture, not getting completely consistent results yet. One time I tried it with Coconut oil, and my hair is STILL greasy in the back from it! i'm trying to get it out slowly instead of killing it with shampoo. Has anyone tried this? And, if with coconut oil, it seems the ratio of oil would be less than 1:1, more like .5 oil to 1 shampoo. Any advise greatly appreciated!!

[GRU]

- What is CO? Is it washing your hair with Conditioner Only? Can someone please give me instructions on how to do this? It seems counterintuitive to me that a conditioner wash would remove oil, especially coconut oil.

Yep, there's a HUGE CO-Washing Thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2898) that you can peruse if you want.

But speaking as someone who hasn't used shampoo in about 18 months, and someone who just a few days ago had their head slathered in coconut oil, it really DOES work for most folks. Typically those with very fine, very straight, very thin hair are the ones who have had the least success with CO-washing.

[Firefox7275]

I'm new to this community and have a few questions/clarifications:

- What is CO? Is it washing your hair with Conditioner Only? Can someone please give me instructions on how to do this? It seems counterintuitive to me that a conditioner wash would remove oil, especially coconut oil.

I started experimenting with traditional shampoo/conditioner alternative a couple months ago and am still trying to find what works consistently. I've been feeling that my hair is just getting drier on the 'outside' length, and too greasy too quick at the roots. I'm done with trying to fight my hair's natural texture, but I do want healthy hair and am trying to grow it to my waist (currently at BSL, but heavily layered). BS/ACV did not work for me except once, but couldn't reproduce the perfect storm.

I've also been trying an oil/shampoo (1:1 ratio) mixture, not getting completely consistent results yet. One time I tried it with Coconut oil, and my hair is STILL greasy in the back from it! i'm trying to get it out slowly instead of killing it with shampoo. Has anyone tried this? And, if with coconut oil, it seems the ratio of oil would be less than 1:1, more like .5 oil to 1 shampoo. Any advise greatly appreciated!!

Welcome! :) Coconut oil shampoo thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=65063), newbies section including common abbreviations (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=32573).

[Ashenputtel]

I tried CO for a couple of days but I didn't like it. Made my scalp worst and my hair greassy.

Since I joined the forum I've seen two hairdressers; my regular one for a cut, and one new for a semi-perm to get back to my natural color. The first one was impress that my hair grew so much in a couple of months and the second one told me my hair was perfect with great tickness and in good condition. I still use shampoo.

What works for me is CWC with a sulfate free shampoo with a little bit of ACV in it. I put a cone mask one shampoo out of two, the other one it with suave coco for the first c and l'oreal sulfate free silicone free anti-frizz conditionner (the new line).

I sometimes use my Klorane shampoo for blonde hair with a little sulfate in it.

My philosophy if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I think what really help me since I joined is getting rid of monthly coloring, the cwc method and occasionnal heavy oiling with jojoba. I was already not using heat styling and doing frequent long masks.

Hope it helps other straight, fine, itchy scalp people.

[GRU]

I tried CO for a couple of days but I didn't like it. Made my scalp worst and my hair greassy.


Yet another fine-and-straightie who had the greasies with CO.

If I had more time or fewer things to do, I'd go through the entire CO thread and tally up what % of people who had problems with CO were fine-, straight-, or fine-and-straight-haired. I'd be willing to wager that it's 80% or higher...

[Ashenputtel]

Yet another fine-and-straightie who had the greasies with CO.

If I had more time or fewer things to do, I'd go through the entire CO thread and tally up what % of people who had problems with CO were fine-, straight-, or fine-and-straight-haired. I'd be willing to wager that it's 80% or higher...

Thanks for the info. At first I was wondering if I were doing something wrong. But it my case it made things worst. I discovered Suave coconut and ocean breeze though. All is not lost.

[GRU]

Thanks for the info. At first I was wondering if I were doing something wrong. But it my case it made things worst. I discovered Suave coconut and ocean breeze though. All is not lost.

Nope, not doing anything wrong at all. You just have that silky slippery hair that folks like me covet, that's all!

There is no "one right way" to do any of this... we are each individuals, with unique DNA, different water hardness/softness, different barometric pressures and humidity levels, different air qualities, different lifestyles... it's no wonder that there isn't any single right method when you take into account all the variables between us all!

[Misti]

I had gone for over three weeks without traditional shampoo, using BS and ACV mostly, with a couple of CO in between. I feel so disheartened, but I felt like I had no choice.


Does it have to be "all or nothing"? Why?

I have been using BS and ACV for two and a half years. I love how manageable my hair is and it has made my hair so much stronger! BUT, my ends really needed some moisture after spending the winter coated with coconut oil. (Which, as you noticed, doesn't come out with BS and ACV.)

So, I gave my hair a good wash with shampoo to clarify it, and then did some moisture treatments. Depending on ther treatment, I use clarifying conditioner or shampoo and conditioner to get them out -- and then I go back to BS and ACV.

Because that's what works with my schedule, I have been doing treatments on Saturday morning, washing them out and then wearing my hair down to enjoy it for the rest of the weekend. But except for removing the heavy moisturizers, I still use BS and ACV ... I was every morning, alternating just vinegar with BS and ACV. Am I poo-free? Ummm...not really at the moment, but hair gets the advantages of that routine along with the advanatges of lots of moisture and the undeniably yummy feeling of freshly shampooed hair every so often.

This weekend, I plan to try SMT for the first time and I don't expect to need shampoo this time. But I might do some extra conditioner afterward.

[countryhopper]

I did no poo for over a year. Then I moved and now have horribly hard water so now I use shampoo again. At least now I only shampoo twice a week instead of every day as I had to do before no poo.

I still notice some dandruff by day three. I'm not sure if I screwed up my scalp by no poo or not.

[SpinDance]

I don't consider it a failure when I try an experiment and the results aren't what I expected or wanted. It's information that I can use in trying additional experiments in the future. I tried CO with no success fairly early on. Then as I continued to try different things I ended up trying no 'cones. Results were good, so I kept with that. Then somethings came up that I needed to get my hair wet every day for a couple of weeks, so I tried CO again. Didn't want to CWC every day and I hadn't liked WO results. Suddenly CO worked like a charm. Hmm, no 'cones was the reason. I learned that CO is much better for me to get out lots of oil than any shampoo combination, which I found fascinating and counter-intuitive. But who can argue with results?

Be patient with your routines and experiments. This is all about long, right? :) (I'm trying to be patient, really I am!)

[cygus]

GRU, thank you for the CO link! i'm looking forward to trying it.

My hair is not curly like yours, but more more wavy (frizzy with traditional shampoo/conditioner). Hopefully it'll work.

[Misti]

I still notice some dandruff by day three. I'm not sure if I screwed up my scalp by no poo or not.

I notice that shampoo gives me dandruff these days...my poor old scalp no longer likes being stripped of its precious oils. ;) (Then again, i tried no poo in desperation, after years of increasingly itchy scalp. The relief was fabulous!)

Now when i shampoo after a treatment, I get as little shampoo on my scalp as i can and it seems to help.