average terminal length

[jojo]

Just wondering what the average terminal length most people can grow to?

Also I know a girl, who doesn't dye or bleach her hair. I think she blow dries but her hair is in pretty good condition yet she told me she has had 2 trims in 3 years and yet her hair is just past shoulders.

I can think of one LHC a male member but cannot remember his name who reached terminal at just past shoulders.

How common is this?

[racrane]

I don't know but I know when I last grew out my hair it went to waist, so I at least know it goes that far. I'm curious what others have to say.

[invisiblebabe]

I knew a girl in undergrad who told me her hair wouldn't grow past shoulder length. She had fine, naturally blonde hair that she may have highlighted a bit. Some people just can't grow really long hair, it's in the genes. I don't think that short a terminal length is the norm, though.

My hair will grow to at least an inch or two past classic. Not currently growing it that long but it was that length all through high school.

[owlathena]

I try not to think about terminal! I just hope that I'm a long long way away.

I think I remember reading somewhere that average terminal was somewhere between 25-30 inches (in LHC measurements that would mean more like 35-40 inches). I could be remembering it wrong though...

[Chetanlaiho]

I think that shoulder length terminal hair is rarer than you think, a lot of people think 'oh my hair doesn't seem to be growing past my shoulders, must be as long as it gets' but they haven't tried other washing methods, oiling, protecting it against breakage, all the good stuff you learn around here basically ;)

[torrilin]

When I used to blow dry, people would occasionally compliment my hair. This includes hairdressers.

Now? I go in grumping that my hair is terribly splitty and damaged, and most stylists will try to talk me out of trimming as much as I want, because the condition is soooooo good. When the stylist is trying to talk you out of giving them money, you *know* your hair is in good shape. The only traumatic part is talking them out of using a blow dryer... it's really hard to get it through to them that one use will leave me regretting it for 6 months. I often distract 'em with the idea of French braiding my hair, because then it doesn't look like it needs to be dried.

For other posters, the bleach involved in hair dye is killer, or the damage caused by dry brushing or what have you... but pretty much everyone's hair is going to have some stuff it handles well, and other stuff it handles poorly. If you play to your strengths, your hair will grow long. Chances are your friend is not playing to her hair's strengths and she's showing a false terminal.

My hair is pretty fragile... F does that. But it is straight. If your friend is F and a wavy or curly, her hair needs to be handled less than mine, and the blow dryer will be even harder on it. And a lot of women with fine hair seem to have bought into the idea that skipping conditioner will give them volume, when in reality all it does is give them tangles. And for a curly finehair, washing every day with a strong detergent and skipping conditioner is just nightmarish.

[WaitingSoLong]

How will you reach terminal if you trim a few times a year??

[Avital88]

hmm i heard that classic is called classic because its the classical terminal for most people..
Its all about taking care and health i guess..

[spidermom]

How will you reach terminal if you trim a few times a year??

You reach a point beyond which it will grow no longer. We used to have a member here who reached trimmed terminal at about fingertip length (to the best of my memory).

[elbow chic]

Well, for one thing, the word "trim" can mean a lot of things to a lot of folks, and their stylists. I always used to go to the stylist and ask her to trim it up, which she generally would interpret as "give me the same cut I got last year." lol.

And my memory for when I got my last cut is constantly fuzzy, AT BEST.

I was on LHC for over six months this time before finally remembering that my last haircut was Jan '10, not April '09.

And I only remembered because I had a baby the month of my last salon "trim." If not for that rather memorable personal marker, I would have no real idea when my last cut actually was. :laugh:

[vanillabones]

Terminal length can't change with age, can it? I have pics of my hair as an early teen or pre-teen and my hair was about waist. I never remember it being that long though because that was before I started damaging it and blowfrying highlighting etc.

So does this mean my terminal length is at least still waist? Or could it have changed and could now be shorter especially since I damaged it and I'm a very fine thinnie :'(

Very sorry to hi-jack but now I am paranoid :scared:

[jojo]

See this is what I don't get. Say you have classic length hair which genetically had another 2 years growth (you obviously wouldnt know that but your hair does) and you think sod this I am going to cut short, so you do but your hair doesnt stop growing after 2 years even though genetically its reached terminal. Hair grows from the roots yeah? hair doesn't know its been cut, however if you had stayed at classic you would have only got another 2 years growth, yet you cut and you can grow it long again???

[jojo]

Terminal length can't change with age, can it? I have pics of my hair as an early teen or pre-teen and my hair was about waist. I never remember it being that long though because that was before I started damaging it and blowfrying highlighting etc.

So does this mean my terminal length is at least still waist? Or could it have changed and could now be shorter especially since I damaged it and I'm a very fine thinnie :'(

Very sorry to hi-jack but now I am paranoid :scared:

I wouldnt go off how long your hair went when you was younger, you was shorter too remember so it would look longer.

You say too you had damaged hair, terminal length is not determined by damage its determined by genes, damaged hair will break off on the hem causing you to think you have stopped growing but growth is still happening.

[elbow chic]

See this is what I don't get. Say you have classic length hair which genetically had another 2 years growth (you obviously wouldnt know that but your hair does) and you think sod this I am going to cut short, so you do but your hair doesnt stop growing after 2 years even though genetically its reached terminal. Hair grows from the roots yeah? hair doesn't know its been cut, however if you had stayed at classic you would have only got another 2 years growth, yet you cut and you can grow it long again???

I've heard people say that that is what causes a stall sometimes. Made sense to me.

[vanillabones]

I wouldnt go off how long your hair went when you was younger, you was shorter too remember so it would look longer.

You say too you had damaged hair, terminal length is not determined by damage its determined by genes, damaged hair will break off on the hem causing you to think you have stopped growing but growth is still happening.

I think I was only an inch or two shorter to be honest :rolleyes:
I didn't care about length back then so I didn't notice that from damaging it all shed to APL. My hair is damaged now but I will gradually cut it all out within the next year. All hope is not lost if that means when my hair is healthy and growing normally again that it will grow past shoulder :o I'm just afraid my hair will never get far past shoulder like some of the people mentioned.

[WaitingSoLong]

JoJo, your hair's term length includes shedding, the stats say about 10% of your hair at any give time is int he shedding or about-to-shed stage. You can cut it and gow it and cut it and grow it because 90% of it is in active growing. Different hairs have different term lengths. However, once it reaches term, the hairs that are at term stop growing and shed eventually (their is an in between phase where they just "hang on"). That is why all the term lengths (untrimmed) are always tapered, FTE's. Because only so much of the hair will grow that long. But the shed hairs have to start over, so hair is always growing, but not past term. Did this make any sense? I understand it but not sure how to explain.

[Avital88]

JoJo, your hair's term length includes shedding, the stats say about 10% of your hair at any give time is int he shedding or about-to-shed stage. You can cut it and gow it and cut it and grow it because 90% of it is in active growing. Different hairs have different term lengths. However, once it reaches term, the hairs that are at term stop growing and shed eventually (their is an in between phase where they just "hang on"). That is why all the term lengths (untrimmed) are always tapered, FTE's. Because only so much of the hair will grow that long. But the shed hairs have to start over, so hair is always growing, but not past term. Did this make any sense? I understand it but not sure how to explain.

This is a very clear explanation,thank you..I think everyone wonders what their term is.:cool:The only way how we can know is trying to get there..its a long way though!

[spidermom]

I think WaitingSoLong has it right. Each follicle on your head has it's own grow-stall-shed cycle. Even if you cut it, the hair will still shed out when it has reached the end of its growth cycle. But other hairs on your head will be in a different stage in the cycle. Some will be only 1/4-inch long when you cut your hair, and they have a long time left to grow. Others will have been the longest hairs and near the end of their growth cycle.

[Panth]

See this is what I don't get. Say you have classic length hair which genetically had another 2 years growth (you obviously wouldnt know that but your hair does) and you think sod this I am going to cut short, so you do but your hair doesnt stop growing after 2 years even though genetically its reached terminal. Hair grows from the roots yeah? hair doesn't know its been cut, however if you had stayed at classic you would have only got another 2 years growth, yet you cut and you can grow it long again???

Your hair (as a whole) doesn't have a terminal length, though, it's the individual hairs that have a terminal length or, more precisely, the hair follicles that have a set length of time which they spend in anagen (growing) phase.

In your theoretical example, you don't have a uniform head of hair that is all precisely at classic length and all will grow for precisely two more years then go into catagen, then into telogen. This is obvious because every follicle on your head does not shed its hair at exactly the same time. You do not spend a couple of months every 7-ish (or whatever) years being totally bald.

The reason the hair (as a total) in your example continues to grow is because there is a complete mixture of hairs (and hair follicles) which are in all stages of the hair cycle. Thus, the hair as a whole continues to grow for more than two years.

True "terminal" is reached when the hairs that are in the very last stages of their anagen phase are at the longest possible length (considering anything that has been cut off and everything that has been worn off by damage). A made-up example:

Hair follicle on your head with the longest anagen phase = anagen of 7 years (84 months)
Rate of hair production by this hair follicle = 1 inch per month
Rate of hair loss by trimming = 0.2 inches per month
Rate of hair loss by damage = 0.3 inches per month

So, per month you'd see 0.5 inches length gain with this routine. If you kept up this same routine for 7 years +, you would be at "terminal" which would be hairs of 42 inches long. Depending where the theoretical "hair follicle with the longest anagen phase" is on your head this would result in varying lengths of hair as a total. Add in the extra length from measuring the LHC way and this theoretical person could be in the high 40s or low 50s in terms of inches of hair.

...but, obviously, this is theoretical. You could say, what if this person stopped trimming? Would they get a longer "terminal" then? Well, yes, but only if stopping trimming didn't result in an increase in hair loss by damage.

So, you can seen that "terminal" is really a function of your routine (trims + damage) and your hair type (length of anagen + rate of hair production + ability of hair to resist damage (which can depend on coarseness of hair follicles and curl pattern, among other things)). And, of course, things are more complicated than this - lots of people's rate of hair production varies with the season; damage also varies with season (e.g. wind damage, sun damage, damage from hats); anagen length and rate of hair production varies from follicle to follicle and also with nutrition, exercise, age, hormones, stress, pregnancy, etc.

So... erm... as a summary, it's very, very complicated and the best way to find out your terminal length is to just keep growing. :D

[WaitingSoLong]

Even if you cut it, the hair will still shed out when it has reached the end of its growth cycle. But other hairs on your head will be in a different stage in the cycle. Some will be only 1/4-inch long when you cut your hair, and they have a long time left to grow. Others will have been the longest hairs and near the end of their growth cycle.

YES...this is what I was trying to say. Thanks SpiderMom.



So, you can seen that "terminal" is really a function of your routine (trims + damage) and your hair type (length of anagen + rate of hair production + ability of hair to resist damage (which can depend on coarseness of hair follicles and curl pattern, among other things)).

Totally off topic but I LOVE seeing people using parentheses correctly :O) :p

[trolleypup]

So... erm... as a summary, it's very, very complicated and the best way to find out your terminal length is to just keep growing. :D
And not all hairs have the same terminal length.

In addition, some people have a small number of hairs that keep growing past the average maximum time, so have wispies (much) longer than the body of their hair.

Hmmm...I am your example. 7x0.5"=42" (LHC 53")

Mine is pretty solid...if I trim, my hair will grow back to the original length and shape at 1/2" per month.

[trolleypup]

Totally off topic but I LOVE seeing people using parentheses correctly :O) :p<3 !

But there weren't any nested footnotes to go with!

[WaitingSoLong]

<3 !

But there weren't any nested footnotes to go with!

Ahh but that is OK in casual reading. :p

ETA: how does one add footnotes in LHC? I cannot get the little "1" that denotes the footnote. Perhaps in parentheses? Like this (1)?

1. Or that

[spidermom]

Short terminal lengths are not uncommon. A former roommate had BSL hair for the 8 years that I knew her. She didn't cut it or heat-style it or anything damaging. I used to braid it for her - she wore it braided most of the time - and it was nice, strong American Indian type hair. It was also relatively thick at the bottom. It didn't look like terminal length hair, but it was.

[jel]

I like to think of the terminal as the timespan, not the length. Like Panth described. I just wish my hair follicles produced 1 inch per month! :D

[Anje]

Heck, my mother claims to have her terminal length a little past shoulder. I've never seen it past shoulder, curly. but I also don't know what care she gave it. On a note that should give wannabe-longhairs hope, my supposedly shoulder-terminal mom and bald dad had me (I can at least reach tailbone) and at least one brother with awesome long, thick 3b curls.

[WaitingSoLong]

Ya know before LHC I did not know there was such a thing as terminal length. Is it common knowledge? I just figured it would grow FOREVER. lol

[spidermom]

Ya know before LHC I did not know there was such a thing as terminal length. Is it common knowledge? I just figured it would grow FOREVER. lol

I thought the same. (which is stupid considering that I knew my BSL-only friend before I joined LHC)

Another foolish thing I thought - that there was some trick I could learn to get my hair to be all one length instead of every length.

[WaitingSoLong]

Another foolish thing I thought - that there was some trick I could learn to get my hair to be all one length instead of every length.

YESSSSSS! LOL There was a lady in my church who did not seem to have one odd sized strand of hair. No hairs would stick out of her braids or fuzz up aroudn her face. I thought I must be doing something wrong. I figured it was damage (and I am sure some was) and I was already on my quest for longer hair. This is one of the "relief" moments I felt after finding LHC. That is FAIRYTALE stuff and apparently I was seeing what I wanted to see or she wore a wig! But too late, I had already become anti-damage obsessed by then. SIGH.

[jojo]

I think I was only an inch or two shorter to be honest :rolleyes:
I didn't care about length back then so I didn't notice that from damaging it all shed to APL. My hair is damaged now but I will gradually cut it all out within the next year. All hope is not lost if that means when my hair is healthy and growing normally again that it will grow past shoulder :o I'm just afraid my hair will never get far past shoulder like some of the people mentioned.

Same as my story, id never got longer than just past bsl before but abused it terribly. It took me 8 years to get to bsl before now I am 5.5 years growing from cropped and my hair is just passing waist! you will get there, if i can anybody can! and half the fun is knowing just how long we can get!

[jojo]

JoJo, your hair's term length includes shedding, the stats say about 10% of your hair at any give time is int he shedding or about-to-shed stage. You can cut it and gow it and cut it and grow it because 90% of it is in active growing. Different hairs have different term lengths. However, once it reaches term, the hairs that are at term stop growing and shed eventually (their is an in between phase where they just "hang on"). That is why all the term lengths (untrimmed) are always tapered, FTE's. Because only so much of the hair will grow that long. But the shed hairs have to start over, so hair is always growing, but not past term. Did this make any sense? I understand it but not sure how to explain.

yup that makes sense, thanks. I must have asked this question a million times, sorry to all for repeating myself; its my age!:D

[jojo]

I like to think of the terminal as the timespan, not the length. Like Panth described. I just wish my hair follicles produced 1 inch per month! :D

I am liking your theory, makes more sense!

[jojo]

Thank you all for replying; I like a good discussion to get my brain cogs turning!

[Panth]

<3 !

But there weren't any nested footnotes to go with!

Sorry. I'm a scientist. We're not allowed footnotes. :(

And yes, you got it perfectly right when you said not every hair on your head have the same terminal length - I phrased it as anagen length and rate of hair production varies from follicle to follicle. Although you'd be forgiven for missing that out of the great enormous splurge of text I wrote. :p

Aaaaaaand of course there's other compounding factors. The first one that came to me after pressing "Post" is that, obviously, rate of hair loss by damage is a function of how old the hair is, so that figure will get larger as the hair gets older and the rate at which it gets larger will depend upon various natural characteristics of the hair (coarseness of the hair fibre, curlyness, etc.). That is why dying and straightening and suchlike rarely prevents someone from growing their hair to chin-length but would be a serious contender for preventing growth past classic.

... but I don't think I'm going to try to come up with a mathematical formula that takes that into account. :D

[Mariah!!]

Heck, my mother claims to have her terminal length a little past shoulder. I've never seen it past shoulder, curly. but I also don't know what care she gave it. On a note that should give wannabe-longhairs hope, my supposedly shoulder-terminal mom and bald dad had me (I can at least reach tailbone) and at least one brother with awesome long, thick 3b curls.


My mom has naturally curly hair, and her terminal length is less than BSL (when straight). I have never EVER seen a pic of her with her hair curly that was more than 2-4" past her shoulders. In fact, she has always had it at least shoulder length but never past BSL, even in her childhood, teen and young adult life pictures.

[trolleypup]

Sorry. I'm a scientist. We're not allowed footnotes. :(:grouphug:
And yes, you got it perfectly right when you said not every hair on your head have the same terminal length - I phrased it as anagen length and rate of hair production varies from follicle to follicle. Although you'd be forgiven for missing that out of the great enormous splurge of text I wrote. :p

Aaaaaaand of course there's other compounding factors. The first one that came to me after pressing "Post" is that, obviously, rate of hair loss by damage is a function of how old the hair is, so that figure will get larger as the hair gets older and the rate at which it gets larger will depend upon various natural characteristics of the hair (coarseness of the hair fibre, curlyness, etc.). That is why dying and straightening and suchlike rarely prevents someone from growing their hair to chin-length but would be a serious contender for preventing growth past classic.

... but I don't think I'm going to try to come up with a mathematical formula that takes that into account. :D
Mmmm...I saw it but posted anyway since it could be missed.

And my bias with straightish coarse hair is that even with abuse, I still ended up only an inch or two from my terminal length. So it is a bit of an adjustment for me to remember that someone with fine curly fragile hair can easily damage their hair enough to have a false terminal much shorter than their virgin fine old lace terminal!

Calculus of Terminal Length. :hides:

[danacc]

To add to the complexity and answer a question that I think was raised earlier in the thread, your age is a factor, too. Typically, terminal length is longest in late-teens to early-twenties, and very gradually shortens as you age.

[EdG]

Terminal length can vary a lot across the scalp. I have hairs that are terminal at a few inches, and hairs that are terminal at several feet.
Ed

[Panth]

Terminal length can vary a lot across the scalp. I have hairs that are terminal at a few inches, and hairs that are terminal at several feet.
Ed

Exactly - across the entire body, in fact ... which is why most of us don't look like this: http://ptleader.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=55&ArticleID=15119

[ilovelonghair]

Your hair (as a whole) doesn't have a terminal length, though, it's the individual hairs that have a terminal length or, more precisely, the hair follicles that have a set length of time which they spend in anagen (growing) phase.


And not all hairs have the same terminal length.




So true! My hair is a good example: near my forehead there are many hairs that will only reach the tip of my nose when they are at the longest, so I have a natural fringe. But there are also hairs in between that get longer. The back of my head is where my hair can grow long. I think that explains why the thickness of my hair when I make a ponytail on top of my hair is much more than at the back of my head.

I have just trimmed my hair because the ends looked too thin. One hair (yes only ONE) reached nearly tailbone. I so hope that that is just because I am still growing out damage from 3 years ago (where I had breakage at the scalp and it bit lower) I am not sure how long hair grows in 3 years, but it can't be past wast yet I guess, so there is still hope?

[spidermom]

I regularly shed out hairs that are only 2-4 inches in length, definitely shed because there's a root ball.

[angelshair]

I wonder if there is some study on this somwehere. Personally, I wouldn't think it's too common to have shoulder-length terminal, but maybe it's something that has evolved over time with deficient natural selection or something? I'm hoping that I'm at a false terminal length right now at APL. :( This forum is my last resort, I'm gonna try it all and hope to at least get to BSL (although it seems to be hard to keep to one goal length on this forum). Most of the damage is prolly due to bleaching, which I guess can cause a false short terminal length. Will try honey lightening and see if it makes a difference. Wish me luck, I don't want to have short hair forever. :)